Guild Wars 2

OnyX.9027:

personally I love these threads.

Farmers want to farm, but get called, toxic, exploiters, griefers etc… for wanting to do so

Non-farmers want to finish the event and get called idiots, Griefers, QQ’ers etc… for wanting to do so

BUT!

it makes no difference what is said in these threads, why?

Because A-Net will always nerf the farm (quoting:: unintended use of a mechanic, “exploiting” an event, etc…)

The only thing I would ask is do people think the “nerf” is for the “good of the community/game” or is it because it impacts on the gem store (a.k.a Cash Cow?))

I personally find it strange that they react unbelievably fast to any farm but ignore existing bugs (some of which have been in game since beta) so my felling is that it is with the latter reason in mind they proceed to nerf.

However, I leave it to each person to put their own definition in place.

You have a strange definition of unbelievably fast. It took them a long long time to fix the ember farm. And you know, that was probably relatively easy to do, as compared to existing bugs which may or may not be quite so easy to find.

/conspiracy theory

cesmode.4257:

Vayne.8563:

cesmode.4257:

Taygus.4571:

actually yeah, more living story seems to be what the majority of players want.

I also like that they’re still balancing current skills to remove any over powered ones, and trying to buff under powered ones.

The last thing we need is more over powered skills. or under powered skills.

I suppose I have to disagree. I see more people clamoring for skills, dungeons and dungeon fixes, pre cursor crafting, etc.

I don’t see people salivating for the next crumb of the story to be released.

Nor were people posting about salivating for Living Story Season 1, but now we have a thread on the first page with people who miss it. Imagine that.

Some of us have said, more than once, that those who don’t have anything to complain about are playing the game. They people happily playing season 1 didn’t do much to say how much they liked season 1 at least not enough of them.

We have people clamoring for an expansion but someone posted an expansion thread, also on the front page as I type this, and many in that thread say they don’t want an expansion.

No one is clamoring for something we’re getting. People only clamor for what they’re not getting.

One thread on the first page(which contains a mixed bag of opinions), and that is the basis of your argument in your most recent post?

Reaching a bit there…

LMAO! I picked threads off the first page, two of them, not one, to prove a point which only someone being completely disingenuous to ignore.

Most reasonable people would think that if there are two such threads on the front page at the same time right now, it might not be that uncommon for it to happen.

There’s plenty of evidence that only a small percentage of players ever post to the forums, so it shouldn’t surprise anyone that what you read on forums may or may not be what people are feeling in game.

I think you’re running out of actual arguments, so you’re trying to discredit me by other means. It’s not working.

calyx.9086:

Vayne.8563:

Shakkara.2641:

Vayne.8563:

Shalloe.4867:

Never did the blix farm but was wondering why was it nerfed? was it blocking progess for peoples story line? or because the event failing was more rewarding to farmers then succeeding and they was giving grief to players for completing the event?

If it was the second then surely they need to take a look at respawn timers for failing on all events and adjust them otherwise the problem is just going to continue to move from event to event until they are all adjusted

It was changed because it divided the community in an unhealthy way. Events were meant to be finished. Not my opinion, but what the devs are saying.

Making more from an event that was never meant to be failed to profit is considered an exploit.

Sorry, but players have a CHOICE. Do A and get X, or do B and get Y.

Making a choice in a game that is marketed to give players the feeling that the world “Cares that they’re there!” is an exploit now? Lol, so players making a choice and getting rewarded by the designed consequences is not allowed…

If failing an event is not allowed, then it shouldn’t be an option in the game at all. Then we can have a nicely linear WoW game without a “living breathing world” that doesn’t care about player input at all.

This is by design, and if its not intended, then Anet should change their design to reward ‘proper’ behavior a lot more. Right now, the rewards from completing an event are pretty much non-existent, while the actual loot comes from champion mobs that spawn as part of the event. So the question for farmers is simply: “Which event chain spawns the most champions the fastest?”

If Anet wants to change this mentality, then it should properly reward successful event completion with loot that exceeds the champion loot.

According to the TOS using something in game in a way it wasn’t designed to be used to profit is exploiting. If you don’t like the definition, take it up with Anet.

I see it as an unintended way to make more than the game was going to provide if you played it as intended. Apparently Anet sees it the same way.

Seriously wtf are you talking about. The event was made to have two possible outcomes – succeed or fail. Players have a choice, they don’t only get to choose to succeed. Otherwise the event should be successful whether anyone participates or not.

Until you can link a post here on the forums that confirms this is considered an exploit, or someone posts here, I’m going to have to disagree with your asinine logic.

That’s like saying, when playing chess, you have two choices, you can win or lose. But the object of the game is to win. If you’re playing chess to lose, you’re playing it wrong.

Now, we’re designed in this game, by intent, to be good guys. The fail portion of it means we’ve lost and games are made to be one.

There’s no ethical matter here where if we lose we go down a different path some how.

This is just a self-serving rationalizations for farmers to keep playing the game in a way not intended.

Again the Anet quote said no one should ever feel they can’t finish an event. He didn’t say no one should feel they have to finish it.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I certainly miss the Meta Achievements from Season One. These new achievements? Meh. Just not compelling to me. I’m not even sure what you get for doing them. I think an AP.

Season Two’s story is good enough, I just don’t really feel the incentive to repeat any of the parts. I’m not sure why. Playing alone doesn’t really have the same feel that I got from doing Season One events. There is was a whole community of players doing something together. Figuring out how to do it best, working towards that goal, etc.
Sharing something, and looking back and saying, ‘Remember when…?’

But, mostly I think, I liked working toward the Meta Achievement…watching that bar fill up, and finally getting that reward, which seemed (to me) better than whatever it is we get now from episodes. See? I can’t even remember anything I’ve earned from any of the Season Two Episode events.

Don’t do them alone. Plenty of people would run through them with you, just for the fun of it. I would.

moiraine.2753:

I don’t know what exactly are you enjoying but there hasn’t been any major update to neither of the things you mentioned from months.WvW and PvP receive so little attention by Anet.

• In PvP they even deleted one map instead to try balancing it.Now they think to do the same with 2nd one.
• About WvW heh do you see those new colour comander tags?They are new and shiny but again they are NOT what the comunity wanted.

Now lets talk about dungeons and FotM:

• To dungeons the last major update to them was TA:A.Which made Anet to not want to do any new dungeon soon.
• And FotM gosh the last major update to it was Fractured and i can’t even remeber when was that.It’s been so long from it.

SAB won’t be seen soon.What about Open World raid bosses like Tequatl and Worm?So i don’t know what exactly you are so greatful to Anet.Right now they are doing 1/6th of the work that they are supposed to do.They are focussing only on LS and that is only 1 part of GW2.What about the other 5 parts?(Dungeons/FotM/WvW/PvP/Raid bosses)

I’m pretty sure the majority of the player base are PvE’ers….at this point for sure, but I’m pretty sure it was always that way. It’s true on most games anyway.

SAB was never meant to be in the game. The only reason people miss it is because it appeared and was temporary. If it was here all the time, most people wouldn’t care. But yes, there is an audience for it.

But trivializing a zone like Dry Top or the new Living Story stuff because you don’t like it doesn’t really help. There are people out there, a few of us at least, who like that stuff. I suspect there are more of us than most people think. Of course, I have no proof of that.

Iconik.8712:

>My argument is invalid only if you and every server does it

Got news for ya, Vayne. It’s an MMO. Operative words being Multiplayer and Online. People are going to be jerks. It happens. You won’t escape it by fixing legitimate farm.

>You and your guys can’t be on every server all the time.

We can start to reboot the culture. It starts with us. I can taxi you in if you want to have fun and do it right.

<3

I wish we could reboot the culture. If that’s what we want to do, this thread might not be the best or only place to do it. Maybe there should be a reboot the culture thread and get some support behind it. I know my guild would support it.

Iconik.8712:

Vayne. Your argument is invalid. Again, we asked everyone before we’d start each time whether or not they needed the achievement and we got it for them 100% of the time if even one person said they needed it.

If someone is trying to get the Slayer achievement, but I’m farming Skelk…what’s the difference?

>Ideally everyone should be like you. Rules have to be made because not everyone is.

That was Zoso’s intention with the post. To reboot the culture of event farming. It starts with one person. Regardless of that, ANet doesn’t want us farming lucratively anyway so…

My argument is invalid only if you and every server does it. People have had conflicts. You and your guys can’t be on every server all the time.

Seriously, I applaud what you’re doing. I do. I’m not being sarcastic. I truly wish everyone was like that.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Vayne.8563:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Chris Cleary.8017:

We are already working on a fix for this event chain. In the mean time, please report players that are being overly toxic (chat) during these events for “Verbal Abuse” as this is a violation of the User Agreement and Rules of Conduct.

I wonder if Anet will ever learn that it is them who are making the toxic environment…

Players want to farm. It will continue until you either:

A. Ban every player in the game and shut down the game
B. Remove every mob in the game

Maybe figure out what players want and give it to them instead of trying to rule your game with an iron fist of depression.

Farming isn’t really the issue. Abusing people who want to finish events is the issue. If farmers accepted the fact that some people actually like to play the game as intended, there wouldn’t be a problem. The problem exists because farmers feel like they own the event. They don’t.

Anet has said no one should ever feel bad about finishing an event. And that is the proverbial that.

So the 50+ farmers don’t own the event, but the 1 person who wants to finish it and ruin the gameplay experience of 50 people somehow owns it?

That makes no sense at all. The event was meant to be failed, or it wouldn’t have a failure condition. It didn’t randomly grow a failure condition, Anet implemented it, coded it, and expected it to be failed.

Actually, get this, ANET owns the event and ANET has said no one should ever feel bad, or be made to feel bad about completing an event.

Since it’s not my event and it’s not your event, I’ll have to believe Anet.

cesmode.4257:

Taygus.4571:

actually yeah, more living story seems to be what the majority of players want.

I also like that they’re still balancing current skills to remove any over powered ones, and trying to buff under powered ones.

The last thing we need is more over powered skills. or under powered skills.

I suppose I have to disagree. I see more people clamoring for skills, dungeons and dungeon fixes, pre cursor crafting, etc.

I don’t see people salivating for the next crumb of the story to be released.

Nor were people posting about salivating for Living Story Season 1, but now we have a thread on the first page with people who miss it. Imagine that.

Some of us have said, more than once, that those who don’t have anything to complain about are playing the game. They people happily playing season 1 didn’t do much to say how much they liked season 1 at least not enough of them.

We have people clamoring for an expansion but someone posted an expansion thread, also on the front page as I type this, and many in that thread say they don’t want an expansion.

No one is clamoring for something we’re getting. People only clamor for what they’re not getting.

Iconik.8712:

kokiman.2364:

Iconik.8712:

Chris Cleary.8017:

We are already working on a fix for this event chain. In the mean time, please report players that are being overly toxic (chat) during these events for “Verbal Abuse” as this is a violation of the User Agreement and Rules of Conduct.

You guys refuse to let us have fun don’t you? Even when we’re farming legitimately you have to swoop in like some anti-fun despot and ruin everything. Because we all know you don’t want us getting loot/gold/mats on our own at a quick clip. You want us to struggle for it so we cave in and buy gems, turn gems into gold and buy the stuff we want.

You people are effing incredible, man. I just don’t get it.

Yeah “let us have fun”. Your farmzerg isn’t representative for the whole community.

It’s a legitimate farm while completing the event. You’re saying those that do it right aren’t representative of the community? If you don’t want to do it right, find another map. You’re free to do it wrong. If you want to do it right, I’ll taxi you in.

And some people play FOR achievements and that’s what they farm, and that farm is interfering with how they enjoy the game. Why can’t you let THEM have fun? That’s the real question.

I know that farmers who are horrible to everyone else are the exception to the rule. They’re also present at every one of these farms at any given time and they drive people not only away from the farm…but away from the game. Toxic community is never a good thing.

Ideally everyone should be like you. Rules have to be made because not everyone is.

Tarnsman.8092:

I’m just sad I missed most of the LS1 story due to not playing for a while. Wish LS1 had a journal like LS2.

As others have said, most of it wouldn’t be playable. Not without 150 people in some cases, many of whom have moved on to other things.

Iconik.8712:

Chris Cleary.8017:

We are already working on a fix for this event chain. In the mean time, please report players that are being overly toxic (chat) during these events for “Verbal Abuse” as this is a violation of the User Agreement and Rules of Conduct.

You guys refuse to let us have fun don’t you? Even when we’re farming legitimately you have to swoop in like some anti-fun despot and ruin everything. Because we all know you don’t want us getting loot/gold/mats on our own at a quick clip. You want us to struggle for it so we cave in and buy gems, turn gems into gold and buy the stuff we want. This is a huge conflict of interest.

I ran this event with Zoso all day yesterday. No one complained. We were all having a good time. No one complained. Every one was positive and no one was toxic. It was a fun social event. I had more fun yesterday doing this event (and trio, quaggan, champtrain when coil wasn’t up) than I’ve had in a long time. Apparently that’s not the endgame here though is it?

You people are effing incredible, man. I just don’t get it.

What part of people can’t progress in their story because you want to have fun do you not get?

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

I’m willing to wager most people who play the game don’t even know what you’re talking about when you say the November 12 patch.

I do, but I’m just me and not most people. But I suppose that’s not relevant.

And do you also feel the day will live on in infamy? Just curious.

cesmode.4257:

Vayne.8563:

cesmode.4257:

Dayra.7405:

My favored LS1 was the minion invasion from https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/august-20-2013/#events

This was the day that the zergs took form in open world, and never let up. They existed, sparingly before, but this is another day in infamy, along with the November 2012 patch.

The day will go down in infamy? Really? To whom. I’m willing to wager most people who play the game don’t even know what you’re talking about when you say the November 12 patch.

Again here we see people who actually liked the living story and posting about it, because they miss something that “everyone on the forums” was complaining about. My point keeps getting illustrated again and again.

This isn’t a unified player base that all want one thing. We’re an extremely divided player base that all want different things.

I doubt any one group has any kind of clear majority. But many think they do.

Anyone who has been around since launch knows what the November 2012 patch brought. It started a trend of controversial design decisions by Arenanet, moreso than any other MMO Ive played.

But please, feel free to continue to use the same old argument with me that there are different strokes for different folks. I didn’t hear you the first time(or the second, the third, etc).

The day is forgotten by mostly everyone. Many who left have, unlike you, moved on to other games and they’re not here, thinking about the day the lives in infamy. It’s a gross overstatement of a tiny minority of players who absolutely can’t have any vertical progression in their game at all. I remember all the slippery slope outcries since that day, all the new tiers of gear and the gear treadmill. Well it’s a long time ago and I still don’t see a new tier of gear. So much for the conspiracy theorists.

I was against ascended weapons and armor and I still am. But the day isnt’ going to live on in infamy, Guild Wars 2 has moved on. You haven’t.

cesmode.4257:

Dayra.7405:

My favored LS1 was the minion invasion from https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/august-20-2013/#events

This was the day that the zergs took form in open world, and never let up. They existed, sparingly before, but this is another day in infamy, along with the November 2012 patch.

The day will go down in infamy? Really? To whom. I’m willing to wager most people who play the game don’t even know what you’re talking about when you say the November 12 patch.

Again here we see people who actually liked the living story and posting about it, because they miss something that “everyone on the forums” was complaining about. My point keeps getting illustrated again and again.

This isn’t a unified player base that all want one thing. We’re an extremely divided player base that all want different things.

I doubt any one group has any kind of clear majority. But many think they do.

tigirius.9014:

pelle ossa.9705:

Vayne.8563:

pelle ossa.9705:

Vayne.8563:

hannah mee.7925:

dcho.8204:

Even though I just started playing less than 2 months ago

That’s why you’re content, it has nothing to do with unsatisfying lives. I enjoyed this game for nearly 16 months before I started to feel the burn of repetition and dissatisfaction. I got my money’s worth out of the game, but I’d gladly pay for a whole new campaign like they did with GW1.

But some of us are playing 2 years and we’re content as well. It works both ways.

you are so selfish…

I’m selfish because I’m content? Who knew? I’m not asking Anet not to make new dungeons. I’m not asking Anet not to make new PvP types? I’m not asking Anet not to improve WvW? I’m simply pointing out a fact.

On what world is that selfish?

it doesn’t matter what i want or what you want , only because you are content , the rest of us are free to criticize anet and the development of this mmo can be base only for you and for ppl who atm are content , because i bet a very few pvpers atm are content.

There are (or were) way more PVEers and let me tell you they do not share Vayne’s content nature about things. Some of us stuck around to see where this was heading because in the past we were silent when mislead by developers and I guess after a while it gets to the point of “no I won’t be quiet about it I deserve what I paid for” so here I am.

I like aspects of the game, it has potential but there are some serious holes in the design that need ironing out. Not being quiet about it is the only way to get them to see.

Evidence? I mean you’re making a claim that there were or are “way more” PvE’ers who don’t share my view. More than what?

You don’t know how many people are still playing the game. We have indications there has been a fall in cash shop numbers, but hardly a significant one. We don’t really know how many people are playing.

You can go and say well no one in my guild and no one on my friends list. I can go on and say well my guild is busier than it was six months ago, and that’s true. It is. Many have come back and many play more hours.

So if you don’t like something, that may be true. But I sort of doubt you have any proof that you’re some sort of majority. I’m in the same boat. The only difference is I’m not trying to pretend I’m in some sort of majority.

There are things I liked about LS 1 and things I like about LS 2. They’re different things.

LS 1 had an epic feel about it, but not really till towards the end. I suspect LS 2 will have an epic feel to it as we go further. Certainly the last fight was more epic than anything that came before it.

But the story telling in LS 2 is, to me, much better than it was in LS one, which has its moments, but was more uneven.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Chris Cleary.8017:

We are already working on a fix for this event chain. In the mean time, please report players that are being overly toxic (chat) during these events for “Verbal Abuse” as this is a violation of the User Agreement and Rules of Conduct.

I wonder if Anet will ever learn that it is them who are making the toxic environment…

Players want to farm. It will continue until you either:

A. Ban every player in the game and shut down the game
B. Remove every mob in the game

Maybe figure out what players want and give it to them instead of trying to rule your game with an iron fist of depression.

Farming isn’t really the issue. Abusing people who want to finish events is the issue. If farmers accepted the fact that some people actually like to play the game as intended, there wouldn’t be a problem. The problem exists because farmers feel like they own the event. They don’t.

Anet has said no one should ever feel bad about finishing an event. And that is the proverbial that.

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

For example, Anet announced for the feature patch they’ve redone stuff to give you higher frame rate in big battles in WvW and at meta events. I think most people want that.

I’d rather have smaller battles and fewer meta events but of course I’m only me and not most people.

This is not really relevant to what I said. I’d rather have smaller battles too, but there are times when big battles happen, many times.

Sure small battles are more fun for me. What’s not fun is as soon as I get into a big battle, my frame rate drops considerably.

So if these performance updates are any good at all, they’ll improve my gameplay experience, not just in one place, but multiple places…even if I do prefer smaller fights.

Of course, we’ll have to see if they make a difference or not.

I’m really surprised at how many peopl are actually against expansion. I’m not personally against it. It seems I’ve fallen again for the old so many threads are asking for it, everyone must want one. I should have known better.

I think expansions will do better to get the game’s name back out there, far more than living story content would ever do. I also don’t think they’re mutually exclusive.

I hope Anet is thinking like me, but whatever it is, I’m still having fun with the game.

If they don’t come out with expansions, weapons, skills, races and professions need to come out in the living story format, which would quell at lot of the complaints about not having an expansion.

Clerigo.9475:

phys.7689:

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

Clerigo.9475:

I stopped playing GW2 last week, and i wont return until you guys deliver what was promised.

Normally I stop reading here, having us users stating that “things were promised” is the first step of devs ignoring us. For the record: nothing was promised as everything is subject to change.

Even if you seem to acknowledge the difficulty of finding something useful in these forums, you should consider: thousands of player replies with tens of thousands of different opinions.

doesnt really matter if he was technically promised or not, what matters is he isnt satisfied, and thus does not want to play anymore. Many people who have left didnt think they were promised something, they just left because the game didnt have enough new or interesting things to do.

Debating a promise or not is irrelevant, the lack of content they expected/wanted is why they left, promised or not.

keep telling people as they walk out of your business you promised them nothing, it will be similarly pointless.

I’m really sorry and i don’t want to be hammering down the same old subject, but the fact is “we”, or “i” if no one else wants to support my view, were promised something.

That “something” took shape through a number of media interventions that happened pre launch: interviews, developer diaries (i was so all over the amazing anet blog) and most important the ArenaNet manifesto that took by assault all gaming media websites all over the world.
Sure, you can have different interpretations of what was said at the time, but you cant say that GW2 is the game that ANet painted with those interventions and i sure can say with full heart, GW2 did not took the best out of GW1….and i am really sure about that one.

Now, people dont have to agree with my views on any subject or support them. I did stated that “i” was leaving until ANet delivered what was promised. But am i the only fish in this barrel? I am not.

If i didnt cared about the game i would not have played it for almost 2 years, when game content barely survives 6 month gameplay, and would not keep returning to the forums to see if something is changing the winds of Tyria.

I really hope Mr. Mike intervention is the start of something new.

An intention to delivery something isn’t the same thing as a promise of delivering it, no matter how many times you repeat it. And you’re not the only one on your boat. But I’m not the only one in my boat either.

And you have zero evidence, as in none, that if Anet would have “kept” their promise to you, they might not have less players than they do today.

Saying other people feel as you do isn’t a guarantee that what you’re saying is right or even true. I understand you feel it is.

I feel it isn’t.

Taku.6352:

Vayne.8563:

gobax.6185:

Nope nobody gets banned from intentionally failing an event for the purpose of farming. I never knew anyone get banned from it.

However, if the issue escalates to the point that people are harassing those who tries to complete it, they make changes just like what happened to blix. They increased the spawn timer by a lot

People did get banned for doing it to farm linen in Iron Marches.

That was because it kept spawning mobs infinitely if no one captured the objective. Thus people began setting up bots to farm it for several hours a day.

You could be right about the infinite spawn being a game bug they were taking advantage of, but I remember people saying, people who were never contradicted, that they were farming but not botting.

They could have been lying I suppose. I okay I’ll withdraw the statement it’s exploiting, even though it technically would fall into that category by the description in the TOS.

How about this. Anet says, straight out, no one should feel bad about want to finish an event. But they never said the same about the people who don’t want to.

It’s clear which side of the fence Anet is sitting on here, no matter how politic they’re trying to be.

OP, if all you’re playing for a legendary, once you get it you’ll leave anyway. So why put it in the game? You’re gone either way.

Having a legendary won’t change the game for you at all.

I’m pretty sure this won’t happen. Anet wants people in the world, not in instances. I wouldn’t actually mind vanquishes, because they were my favorite part of Guild Wars 1, but it would be very different in Guild Wars 2 anyway.

There was a death penalty failure state for VQs in Guild Wars 1 that made it alot more interesting than it would be here. Group compositions in the open world were different, because there was no open world in Guild Wars 1. They could tailor the encounters for a team…they can’t do that here.

So I don’t see it ever happening.

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

Making more from an event that was never meant to be failed to profit is considered an exploit.

Anet’s stated position on purposefully failing an event (for profit):

Chris Cleary.8017:

There are really two sides to this, and when it comes down to it, you are both right – and you are both wrong. Both sides have the right to complete the task that they set out to do (completing or not completing).

Note that Mr Cleary states that the side attempting to fail the event has the same right to do so as does the side attempting to complete it.

If the company says that exploiting is not allowed, but that purposefully failing an event for profit is allowed, then they have said that failing an event for profit is not an exploit.

That said, I believe that failing an event should not be more rewarding than succeeding and hopefully Anet can come up with a fix to this trend. If they redefine purposeful event failing as an exploit int he future that would be their right, but as of the their most recent comment (unless I have missed something) on the matter it is not.

I don’t. Just have an Anet quote that basically sounds diplomatic and sides with those who want to finish the event, and knowledge of past stuff that’s happened where it was on these forums that people got banned for failing events to get linen. There was no denial from Anet on this at the time.

It was wrong, I’m not sure why Anet wouldn’t have corrected it.

So how do you explain the Iron Marches bans for farming linen by not completing an event?

Do you have a quote from an Anet rep giving the exact reason for the bans ? I am quoting an Anet rep here, not extrapolating, guessing, etc.

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

Making more from an event that was never meant to be failed to profit is considered an exploit.

Anet’s stated position on purposefully failing an event (for profit):

Chris Cleary.8017:

There are really two sides to this, and when it comes down to it, you are both right – and you are both wrong. Both sides have the right to complete the task that they set out to do (completing or not completing).

Note that Mr Cleary states that the side attempting to fail the event has the same right to do so as does the side attempting to complete it.

If the company says that exploiting is not allowed, but that purposefully failing an event for profit is allowed, then they have said that failing an event for profit is not an exploit.

That said, I believe that failing an event should not be more rewarding than succeeding and hopefully Anet can come up with a fix to this trend. If they redefine purposeful event failing as an exploit int he future that would be their right, but as of the their most recent comment (unless I have missed something) on the matter it is not.

So how do you explain the Iron Marches bans for farming linen by not completing an event?

gobax.6185:

Nope nobody gets banned from intentionally failing an event for the purpose of farming. I never knew anyone get banned from it.

However, if the issue escalates to the point that people are harassing those who tries to complete it, they make changes just like what happened to blix. They increased the spawn timer by a lot

People did get banned for doing it to farm linen in Iron Marches.

Shakkara.2641:

Vayne.8563:

Shalloe.4867:

Never did the blix farm but was wondering why was it nerfed? was it blocking progess for peoples story line? or because the event failing was more rewarding to farmers then succeeding and they was giving grief to players for completing the event?

If it was the second then surely they need to take a look at respawn timers for failing on all events and adjust them otherwise the problem is just going to continue to move from event to event until they are all adjusted

It was changed because it divided the community in an unhealthy way. Events were meant to be finished. Not my opinion, but what the devs are saying.

Making more from an event that was never meant to be failed to profit is considered an exploit.

Sorry, but players have a CHOICE. Do A and get X, or do B and get Y.

Making a choice in a game that is marketed to give players the feeling that the world “Cares that they’re there!” is an exploit now? Lol, so players making a choice and getting rewarded by the designed consequences is not allowed…

If failing an event is not allowed, then it shouldn’t be an option in the game at all. Then we can have a nicely linear WoW game without a “living breathing world” that doesn’t care about player input at all.

This is by design, and if its not intended, then Anet should change their design to reward ‘proper’ behavior a lot more. Right now, the rewards from completing an event are pretty much non-existent, while the actual loot comes from champion mobs that spawn as part of the event. So the question for farmers is simply: “Which event chain spawns the most champions the fastest?”

If Anet wants to change this mentality, then it should properly reward successful event completion with loot that exceeds the champion loot.

According to the TOS using something in game in a way it wasn’t designed to be used to profit is exploiting. If you don’t like the definition, take it up with Anet.

I see it as an unintended way to make more than the game was going to provide if you played it as intended. Apparently Anet sees it the same way.

Substance E.4852:

Zoso.8279:

Shockwave.1230:

To be fair OP, this is ANet we’re talking about.

They delivered a lot more content with less staff in Guild Wars 1.

Lets not forget GW1 only time was open world was in city hubs. Whenever you left towns it was all private instances makes producing new content a lot easier.

Doesn’t mean it can’t be that way here. It seems like the general reception of the “personal, instanced story” has been much better than LS1 where it was much more “you and one bajillion other heroes of the day stop the bad guy”.

I think it still suffers from lackluster storytelling but it feels like events move because I made them happen instead of me just going with the flow. The Pale Tree was saved because I fought the enemy. The Tower of Nightmares was going to fall regardless of my personal involvement.

I don’t think you can say that the personal instanced story gets better reception than an open world story. I’m pretty sure the marionette fight was one of the most loved fights fanbase wise of all the living story updates.

Nerelith.7360:

Vayne.8563:

Nerelith.7360:

laokoko.7403:

AlphaNeonic.1925:

Vayne.8563:

This game has all kinds of players who want all kinds of things. I’m pretty sure most players never post on the forums. I’m pretty sure Anet uses metrics of what people actually do in game to figure out what they need to do next.

Say you have 100 people who love pizza. You don’t have pizza to give them at the moment, so you offer them apples and bread. 70% of the people chose apples over bread. They must love bread. We’ll have bread from now on.

That’s basically what’s going on with the game right now. Their metrics may show every one gobbling up Living Story like it’s their favorite thing ever, but if it’s the only new content available, competing with content that’s 2 years old… it’s not an accurate measure of what players want.

I don’t know why they don’t use the in game survey system that we had in beta. People actually playing the game could give quick surveys on the content they want to see next.

well, I think there is a market for everything. Those people who want pizza should go to pizza hut. Those people want bread or apple can stick with whatever Anet is still feeding them.

Maybe Anet chef just isn’t good at making pizza, so instead of competing in the pizza market, they do what they are good at, which is making salad and bread.

To stretch the metaphor a bit. I would Not mind ggoing to Pizza Hut for pizza since I know that Anet cannot make good pizza. The problem is….

They don’t have Garlic Bread, they don’t have rye…they don’t have Black Bread, they do Not have Unleavened Bread. They have thite bread.

They only have vinegar and olive oil for the salad, and the salad is …lettuce, tomato… and occasionally, a pickle… and olives.

If you aren’t gonna compete at making Pizza cause your pizza sucks…. you should be good at bread and salads….

But..they aren’t. they are just…so so. The sad part is, they had potential for better bread and salad. But, they seem to be stuck On giving customers…" just enough" to keep them coming back. Sometimes if customers notice… they don’t come back.

But bread isn’t features people are asking for and calling it bread doesn’t make it easier or faster to create and put into the game.

People think this should have all been done now. Anet should stop everything else and do X. Well that’s not how it works in the real world.

For example, Anet announced for the feature patch they’ve redone stuff to give you higher frame rate in big battles in WvW and at meta events. I think most people want that. That’s one project I don’t want to have people taken off. Those people are now freed up to do something else.

If only it was bread.

I don’t go to Taco Bell for cakes, I don’t go to Pizza Hut for Lobster and Sirloin.

I don’t want Pizza, I just want more varieties of bread and salad, if that is what Anet says it is good at. If it’s not good at Pizza fine, don’t make pizza. I can go to pizza Hut for pizza. I come to Olive Garden, I expect good and different types of salad, and bread.

Two years post launch, I see a lot of white bread. Where’s the rye???

The analogy is so tired, I don’t have any real idea what your last line means.

Actually it was said that failing an event intentionally to get more rewards than you normally would is considered an exploit.

Nerelith.7360:

laokoko.7403:

AlphaNeonic.1925:

Vayne.8563:

This game has all kinds of players who want all kinds of things. I’m pretty sure most players never post on the forums. I’m pretty sure Anet uses metrics of what people actually do in game to figure out what they need to do next.

Say you have 100 people who love pizza. You don’t have pizza to give them at the moment, so you offer them apples and bread. 70% of the people chose apples over bread. They must love bread. We’ll have bread from now on.

That’s basically what’s going on with the game right now. Their metrics may show every one gobbling up Living Story like it’s their favorite thing ever, but if it’s the only new content available, competing with content that’s 2 years old… it’s not an accurate measure of what players want.

I don’t know why they don’t use the in game survey system that we had in beta. People actually playing the game could give quick surveys on the content they want to see next.

well, I think there is a market for everything. Those people who want pizza should go to pizza hut. Those people want bread or apple can stick with whatever Anet is still feeding them.

Maybe Anet chef just isn’t good at making pizza, so instead of competing in the pizza market, they do what they are good at, which is making salad and bread.

To stretch the metaphor a bit. I would Not mind ggoing to Pizza Hut for pizza since I know that Anet cannot make good pizza. The problem is….

They don’t have Garlic Bread, they don’t have rye…they don’t have Black Bread, they do Not have Unleavened Bread. They have thite bread.

They only have vinegar and olive oil for the salad, and the salad is …lettuce, tomato… and occasionally, a pickle… and olives.

If you aren’t gonna compete at making Pizza cause your pizza sucks…. you should be good at bread and salads….

But..they aren’t. they are just…so so. The sad part is, they had potential for better bread and salad. But, they seem to be stuck On giving customers…" just enough" to keep them coming back. Sometimes if customers notice… they don’t come back.

But bread isn’t features people are asking for and calling it bread doesn’t make it easier or faster to create and put into the game.

People think this should have all been done now. Anet should stop everything else and do X. Well that’s not how it works in the real world.

For example, Anet announced for the feature patch they’ve redone stuff to give you higher frame rate in big battles in WvW and at meta events. I think most people want that. That’s one project I don’t want to have people taken off. Those people are now freed up to do something else.

If only it was bread.

AlphaNeonic.1925:

Vayne.8563:

This game has all kinds of players who want all kinds of things. I’m pretty sure most players never post on the forums. I’m pretty sure Anet uses metrics of what people actually do in game to figure out what they need to do next.

Say you have 100 people who love pizza. You don’t have pizza to give them at the moment, so you offer them apples and bread. 70% of the people chose apples over bread. They must love bread. We’ll have bread from now on.

That’s basically what’s going on with the game right now. Their metrics may show every one gobbling up Living Story like it’s their favorite thing ever, but if it’s the only new content available, competing with content that’s 2 years old… it’s not an accurate measure of what players want.

I don’t know why they don’t use the in game survey system that we had in beta. People actually playing the game could give quick surveys on the content they want to see next.

From just about every game I’ve ever played, devs have said that less people do dungeons than fuff about in the open world. Forums are always skewed towards raids and PvP because there’s no real reason for people who fuff about in the open world to post on forums. Did it it occur to you that before there was a living world, no one did it and the devs made the living world because of older metrics?

Shalloe.4867:

Never did the blix farm but was wondering why was it nerfed? was it blocking progess for peoples story line? or because the event failing was more rewarding to farmers then succeeding and they was giving grief to players for completing the event?

If it was the second then surely they need to take a look at respawn timers for failing on all events and adjust them otherwise the problem is just going to continue to move from event to event until they are all adjusted

It was changed because it divided the community in an unhealthy way. Events were meant to be finished. Not my opinion, but what the devs are saying.

Making more from an event that was never meant to be failed to profit is considered an exploit.

Geikamir.6329:

Vayne.8563:

Geikamir.6329:

Worst of all is that it seems like they just don’t understand what the players actually want. They keep making the same mistakes. It’s hard to imagine that changing anytime soon, which is unfortunate.

What players actually want? All players or just players who think like you? Maybe they’re giving some players what they want.

Yeah, I did word that too matter-of-factly.

I mean, I don’t think that they know what players want. I feel I have a very common perception of the game, but I can’t know for sure.

From the look of this update, they’re giving up colored account bound commander tag, which clearly players want, better frame rate in big events, which players want, ways to shut down siege to help defend in WvW which at least some players want, tournaments, which some players want, balance changes (including some stuff at least that players want), mega server fixes for guilds which some players want, dungeon leadership changes which people have been asking for, an improved crafting UI which I want if no one else does, move value for crafters, which crafters at least want….in almost every case when players have come out against something, other players (not just me or so-called “white knights”) have come out in favor of it.

Devata, who’s been pretty negative about many aspects of the game over all posted in the thread on crafting updates and she’s happy with that improvement.

This game has all kinds of players who want all kinds of things. I’m pretty sure most players never post on the forums. I’m pretty sure Anet uses metrics of what people actually do in game to figure out what they need to do next.

Geikamir.6329:

Worst of all is that it seems like they just don’t understand what the players actually want. They keep making the same mistakes. It’s hard to imagine that changing anytime soon, which is unfortunate.

What players actually want? All players or just players who think like you? Maybe they’re giving some players what they want.

Zok.4956:

Vayne.8563:

There are unseen things that come up in programming that literally prevent programs from functioning at all.
(…)
Programming can’t be held to the same schedule as television shows. It’s not reasonable to expect it or compare it.

Of course there is some uncertainness in software development. Bugs happen. Testing and fixing bugs takes too long. Ressource and time estimations were wrong.

So if you are new to software development and project management, maybe it is your first bigger project, or you are building a big software (like a computer game) from scratch the first time, then I can agree with you.

But A-Net ist not a start-up company or a rookie in game and software development and is not builiding a complete new GW2. So the software/game development cycle is nothing new to them and should be streamlined by now. They know how much errors typically have to be found and fixed before a release and how much in general this will take. Thats all part of the project plan. The should know by now how much “security margin” before scheduled dates they need. If they do their job good.

And there is nothing intrinsic in software development that prevents them for announcing (as an example) “we have decided to produce a LS 3.0 and expect to start the season in Q1/Q2 2015” and to hold that schedule.

Greetings.

P.S. And of course the point of view can differ if you are a software developer who does not like schedules or if you are the boss of a software developer and schedule the deadline.

It happens to Microsoft too. It happens to all software developers, big and and small. Late and over budget is the rule in this industry not the exceptions.

Edit: Also, how many of the programmers are new and take longer. You mean everyone who works here is an expert programmer that’s worked on many big games?

As I understand Anet is hiring lots of new people. They take time to learn the ropes, fit into the structure. I think you’re oversimplifying something that can’t be easily simplified.

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

Vlad Morbius.1759:

Don’t get me wrong I agree with what you’re saying and I don’t like that behavior either but my point was the result is the same and that is what they aren’t addressing. It is somewhat suspect that they won’t give a generic roadmap and say “for now that’s all the information you’re going to get”, to be honest the only reason I see for not doing that would be that they have far less in the pipeline that many would expect at this time. Now that could really hurt your business long term.

But they’re directly saying they don’t want to say, not because they don’t have stuff in the pipeline, but because they’re not going to falsely raise hopes, in case some of the stuff in the pipeline gets changed and or canceled. That’s the reason Anet gave and it’s different from what you’re saying is the only reason.

It’s entirely possible they’re in a once bitten, twice shy reaction.

but think of the lie you might be telling, and you get to the real heart of why the consumer left.

lets say you run a video game shop,
and someone says, i want super mario 5 the day it comes out, will you have it the same day? and you say yes.
then something happens and you dont have it
he is mad, he calls you a liar, but you know why he is really mad?
because he wanted super mario 5, and you dont have it.
he would have left your store before, and found some other store that would have it.
he is mad because he didnt get what he wanted, he is kittened off, mostly because he wasted his time, and he isnt getting what he wanted.

your statement kept the customer who was going to leave, that it was untrue may make him leave now, but he was gonna leave anyway. MOST ESPECIALLY he will leave if when he asks you the question you directly ignore him saying nothing.

We’re dangerously off topic here, so this is my last post on this. Yes, I think it’s wrong to call someone a liar, and I’ll always think it’s wrong, if they in fact may not have lied. If you’re okay with that, that’s fine. I’m not okay with it, and I don’t think anyone should be okay with it.

I can’t tell you what’s right and wrong for you. But this is definitely wrong to me.

if you make it about calling people liars, its off topic, if you make it about what type of communication is necessary to do business it matters.

you as a store owner told people what day you were supposed to get the item, did you ever think it was a better idea to not allow preorders, or tell people the ship dates? Do you think it would be a good idea to tell them, i cant tell you about any upcoming games, come check each week?

when people yell at you because something out of your control happens, you get mad, you feel its unfair, but you dont let it stop you from making the right decsion, to tell your customers, to the best of your ability, what to expect.

if you let the fear of being wrong cripple your ability to communicate, nothing good comes from it.

I’m not saying Anet shouldn’t communicate and I’ve never said they shouldn’t. I’m saying I can see why they’re gunshy.

The store analogy isn’t really the issue here. Because if a customer says something in the store, loudly even, he only touches whoever can hear him at the moment. If he had an email addy for all my customers and emailed them…it’s how the company looks on the forums.

Now I personally believe the silence is a worse look than being called a liar, but that doesn’t mean people should be able to slander anyone, including a company without proof. And that is what it is…slander. An unsubstantiated and unprovable negative comment said publicly.

If someone says, I’m disappointed because I expected X based on this blogpost, it’s very different than saying Anet lies. It’s not acceptable to me. And it does hamper communication. Because if there are people who repeat it enough and people accept it, it won’t matter what Anet says.

Ashen.2907:

Nerelith.7360:

phys.7689:

Immensus.9732:

To all players: don`t be greedy. The content you are getting every 6 months is equal to a full expansion in other MMOs. New areas? EOTM, Southsun Cove, Dry Top (and 2 pvp maps) . New features? Wardrobe, Traits, New armors/weapons. New content? this is kinda lacking but still, 1 new dungeon, dungeons paths, fractals, SAB. AND ABOVE ALL, Story wise: we are getting roughly 1-2 hours of story play every 2 weeks, lets do the math, on average we get 1.5 hours SO… 1.5H every 2 weeks on a 6(?) month Season = 18 Hours of story, that is equal to a 60$ worth new Single player RPG story amount, the only difference is that you getting it for free, and you getting it 2-3 times per year. Thats a lot of effort, i my self can be disappointed sometimes with some features that we havent got yet that i think are essential if you want to make your MMO competitive, like Housing, Dueling, more legendaries etc. but we got to think that the Devs are people too and there have limitations on how much they can produce. The only thing that they should probably do from their perspective is become more open to the players and start talking about things on development more often and with honesty.

you have low standards
this is what ffxiv gets about every 3 months, NON EXPANSION
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/topics/detail/c96b9e090eb60d1ebd1b89e20e582d59335acd84

this is what = a gw1 campaign
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_Factions

ffxi expansion
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Treasures_of_Aht_Urhgan

btw 18 hours for a single player rpg is really bad, generally they used to aim for 40 hours, but that has increased recently, with stuff like skyrim dark souls, etc.

im not saying they have done nothing, but they are not even close to an expansions worth of content from the expansions i am used to.

That’s just it. The expansions you and I are used to. We used to demand and expect more from publishers. Now it seems we have a Lot of players that do not really understand what an expansion is. Let alone what an expansion is supposed to have.

An expansion expands how we play. It is not Just new maps, new quests, new dungeons.

Most expansions I have played included , new classes, new skills, new Mobs, ….

The closest things that for me qualify as expansion like… are the new trait system, because you can swap out traits on the fly for free, and the wardrobe. which Includes account bound dyes.

Aside from that… I really do not see any new permanent content that is " expansion-like." In 2 years even WoW added more. WoW is better at providing expansions than Gw2. Think about that for a Moment. let it sink in. World of Warcraft….. better.

I agree.

I do think that the living world has the potential to compare reasonably with a traditional MMO expansion, but I do not think it is there yet.

Very much this. The last boss fight is a great example of what can be done. That fight is fun.

Zardul.3952:

dude i got sooo many Leveling Scrolls in my bank..

who needs leveling gear when we can instantly make a level 80.

I don’t know….people who enjoy leveling? More than just a few of those.

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

Vlad Morbius.1759:

Don’t get me wrong I agree with what you’re saying and I don’t like that behavior either but my point was the result is the same and that is what they aren’t addressing. It is somewhat suspect that they won’t give a generic roadmap and say “for now that’s all the information you’re going to get”, to be honest the only reason I see for not doing that would be that they have far less in the pipeline that many would expect at this time. Now that could really hurt your business long term.

But they’re directly saying they don’t want to say, not because they don’t have stuff in the pipeline, but because they’re not going to falsely raise hopes, in case some of the stuff in the pipeline gets changed and or canceled. That’s the reason Anet gave and it’s different from what you’re saying is the only reason.

It’s entirely possible they’re in a once bitten, twice shy reaction.

but think of the lie you might be telling, and you get to the real heart of why the consumer left.

lets say you run a video game shop,
and someone says, i want super mario 5 the day it comes out, will you have it the same day? and you say yes.
then something happens and you dont have it
he is mad, he calls you a liar, but you know why he is really mad?
because he wanted super mario 5, and you dont have it.
he would have left your store before, and found some other store that would have it.
he is mad because he didnt get what he wanted, he is kittened off, mostly because he wasted his time, and he isnt getting what he wanted.

your statement kept the customer who was going to leave, that it was untrue may make him leave now, but he was gonna leave anyway. MOST ESPECIALLY he will leave if when he asks you the question you directly ignore him saying nothing.

We’re dangerously off topic here, so this is my last post on this. Yes, I think it’s wrong to call someone a liar, and I’ll always think it’s wrong, if they in fact may not have lied. If you’re okay with that, that’s fine. I’m not okay with it, and I don’t think anyone should be okay with it.

I can’t tell you what’s right and wrong for you. But this is definitely wrong to me.

pelle ossa.9705:

Vayne.8563:

Kronos.3695:

Vayne.8563:

I love how people think I don’t get what people are saying. It blows my mind.

I get it. What’s not to get. Guy A wants some stuff and Guy B wants some stuff, but those two guys…they may not want the same stuff.

The point is you’re right. A lot of stuff other MMOs have provided Anet hasn’t yet provided. That’s 100% true. What you’re missing is that some of us came here to get away from other MMOs. I don’t LIKE other MMOs or I’d be playing them.

Anet is focusing on the stuff that makes it different from other MMOs not the same. And those who like the features those MMOs have are feeling they’re missing out…and they are.

Doesn’t change a single thing I’ve said up until now. Not one, single thing.

Man, i’ve played 8 year on GW while played almost every MMO came out in the last 10 years (and seen them failing or copy-pasting something else). What i’m asking is what the most of the community of MMOs want to see after TWO YEARS and to EXPAND what the game ALREADY HAVE or simply HAVE ANNOUNCED before.

It’s not difficoult, obviously if your QI > 1.

I guess I can stop to talk vs. a wall.

I’ve played probably as many MMOs as you have and I’ve played Guild Wars 1 as well. You don’t know what most of the community wants to see. You only think you know because of what’s posted on the forums.

And you know, I wouldn’t mind new professions or races. I wouldn’t mind new zones either. I have nothing against any of these things.

But that still doesn’t change anything I’ve written.

why you know what the community want and other people not…
who do you think you are?

I never claimed to know what most people or the community wants. I’m simply pointing out that neither does anyone else. It’s all just guess work. Everything thinks they know what other people want. I’m not talking for other people. Other people are.

Kronos.3695:

Vayne.8563:

I love how people think I don’t get what people are saying. It blows my mind.

I get it. What’s not to get. Guy A wants some stuff and Guy B wants some stuff, but those two guys…they may not want the same stuff.

The point is you’re right. A lot of stuff other MMOs have provided Anet hasn’t yet provided. That’s 100% true. What you’re missing is that some of us came here to get away from other MMOs. I don’t LIKE other MMOs or I’d be playing them.

Anet is focusing on the stuff that makes it different from other MMOs not the same. And those who like the features those MMOs have are feeling they’re missing out…and they are.

Doesn’t change a single thing I’ve said up until now. Not one, single thing.

Man, i’ve played 8 year on GW while played almost every MMO came out in the last 10 years (and seen them failing or copy-pasting something else). What i’m asking is what the most of the community of MMOs want to see after TWO YEARS and to EXPAND what the game ALREADY HAVE or simply HAVE ANNOUNCED before.

It’s not difficoult, obviously if your QI > 1.

I guess I can stop to talk vs. a wall.

I’ve played probably as many MMOs as you have and I’ve played Guild Wars 1 as well. You don’t know what most of the community wants to see. You only think you know because of what’s posted on the forums.

And you know, I wouldn’t mind new professions or races. I wouldn’t mind new zones either. I have nothing against any of these things.

But that still doesn’t change anything I’ve written.

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

I love how people think I don’t get what people are saying. It blows my mind.

I get it. What’s not to get. Guy A wants some stuff and Guy B wants some stuff, but those two guys…they may not want the same stuff.

The point is you’re right. A lot of stuff other MMOs have provided Anet hasn’t yet provided. That’s 100% true. What you’re missing is that some of us came here to get away from other MMOs. I don’t LIKE other MMOs or I’d be playing them.

Anet is focusing on the stuff that makes it different from other MMOs not the same. And those who like the features those MMOs have are feeling they’re missing out…and they are.

Doesn’t change a single thing I’ve said up until now. Not one, single thing.

you dont really do dungeons, but ill tell you that anet dunegons when done well feel fairly different from other dungeons, due to a different combat system, the lack of the trinity, and a focus on the overal dungeon rather than just one boss.

Dynamic event system is also something anet did well on release, but post release hasnt seen much of import.

WvW is one of the main things gw2 does different than other MMOs.

the type of exploration you got when you bought the game, i would say is another thing they did well.

weapons classes being added expands the weapon skill system fairly unique to GW2

many of the things people are asking for arent features come from other MMOs, people are looking for GW2 type features expanded. Lets be honest, the living story currently represents personal story (in terms of what was on release) Which is not one of its strengths, nor is it its most unique aspect.

Some people want some of the other gw2 type things to be expanded on/evolved.

I agree with what you’re saying (except for the fact that I don’t do dungeons. I’ve done plenty of dungeons, I don’t enjoy dungeons).

But other games center on dungeons. That’s what they’re about. Dungeons and raids. Almost every themepark MMO centers on them and has centered on them all along. I’ve been in so many games where this is what is provided. So I’m happy this game is providing something else.

At no point did I say that I don’t think Anet should work on dungeons or WvW. I just don’t think Anet is doing as badly as others try to make out. And I don’t think most of the in game players feel that way. I know the forum does.

It’s because everything is different and Anet isn’t using a formula, at least in part, that stuff takes so long. Let’s look at some upgrades they did provide.

EotM which the WvW people disdain. It was a huge amount of work and people do use it, but the WvW people are saying they never got anything. They got a new zone. They simply don’t like the zone, even though they enjoyed it when they tested it.

Then there’s the Aetherblade path. You know, seems to me that that’s a lot of work put into that dungeon and it’s a great dungeon…and one of the least run dungeons.

I’m not sure why Anet should put work into stuff that people just complain about after and say nothing as been done. Because when they do something, those people don’t like it anyway.

But they do the living story and Dry Top and seems there are still plenty of people there.

So far the big projects they’ve put out for the special interest groups have largely been wasted on the groups they’ve been made for.

Andred.1087:

Today’s blog post was great. In the wake of many users complaining about the lack of new max level content, ANet responded by adding features only useful to non-max-level characters, continuing in their trend of completely missing the point.

I’m losing faith every day, and I’m not looking forward to tomorrow.. “A Fresh Start”
Could that possibly be anything good?

I want to keep playing, and I definitely will until I get my full ascended set. Here’s hoping ANet can prove me wrong about them before I do.

Because obviously this blog post and patch were given in direct response to what people were saying last week on the forums. Do you have any idea how long this has probably been planned for?

I’m pretty sure that in order for Anet to post something about an update that deals with current complaints, it would be months down the road.

Vlad Morbius.1759:

Don’t get me wrong I agree with what you’re saying and I don’t like that behavior either but my point was the result is the same and that is what they aren’t addressing. It is somewhat suspect that they won’t give a generic roadmap and say “for now that’s all the information you’re going to get”, to be honest the only reason I see for not doing that would be that they have far less in the pipeline that many would expect at this time. Now that could really hurt your business long term.

But they’re directly saying they don’t want to say, not because they don’t have stuff in the pipeline, but because they’re not going to falsely raise hopes, in case some of the stuff in the pipeline gets changed and or canceled. That’s the reason Anet gave and it’s different from what you’re saying is the only reason.

It’s entirely possible they’re in a once bitten, twice shy reaction.

Kronos.3695:

Vayne.8563:

Kronos.3695:

Vayne.8563:

Kronos.3695:

Grevender.9235:

“they gave us nothing in two years” is a bit stretched, lemme recap for those who were distract during these years:

- new traits: on for each traitline for every class
- new recipes
- new skills (healing skills, and ok most of them are bad/useless, but still are new)
- new skins
- one balance patch (I know that much has yet to be done but it’s a first step)
- new maps (one in pvp, one in wvw and one in pve)
- new boss mechanics (tequatl, mega wurm ecc)
- megaserver (I like it, finally maps aren’t ghost towns anymore)
- seasonal events
- living story (I am unsure if there are other games updated this frequently)

I am sure I am missing something but hey you get the picture.
Granted, our priorities may differ from devs ones, as for example I would’ve focused all the firepower into fixing bugs and balancing classes as absolute top priority, but to blindly state that “they did nothing” is unfair and overstretched.

It’s not so unfair.
Ok, they added into the game some things (not many, some), but still we need something similar to a content patch, an expansion, something really to play in a MMO. A map released in 3 parts (4 living stories, 1 month and a half) is not enough for the game, and doesn’t count as a fresh air to it.

I don’t want to give any real opinion about the patch since they’ve announced everything, since we could say what will be good or not, but since now what i’ve seen is only a lot of noise and nothing to taste.

It’s a feature patch not a content patch. There’s not supposed to be content in this patch. If you’re waiting for content, you’re going to be disappointed.

I know that, but when we’ll see a content patch, at the 10th of the game?

Whether you like it or not. we’re getting content patches relatively often. It may not be content you like. In the past it wasn’t even permanent content. But it was content. If you like that content, you’re happy and if you don’t you’re not.

You’re not really asking when we’re getting a content patch. You’re asking when are we getting a patch with content you’re interested in.

Ok, let’s make it clear.
On a normal MMO content will be something like:
- playable races
- new classes
- new maps/continent
- news skills
- new level cap (not working on gw2, and i don’t even want it)
- new dungeons/raids
- new mini-games/activities
- new pvp game modes (if existing in it)
and so on.

What Guild Wars 2 needs?
- new skills (yes, utilities or rework on existing)
- new weapons on existing classes (to change the meta and/or get some fresh air)
- new classes (they announced that when they’ll release a new class, will be a heavy one)
- new races (tengu WERE SUPPOSED TO BE RELEASED WITH THE GAME, look at the many interview and sources in 2010-2012)
- new pvp modes/maps (they tried with courtyard, but till they’ll put into at least join solo, will be useless)
- new complete regions (ok, they added dry top, but it’s ONLY a start)
- new dungeons (for who wants them, i don’t like dungeons in here and instanced content)
- new minigames (where are the minigames on every race main town that they announced before the release?)
- new guild related contents, ’cause MMOs are made by guilds (guild halls, guild mission, guild rewards)

Rest is the normal fixing, QoL and balancing that usually a game of this caliber needs to have. And i’m not even mentioning something like precursor crafting, new legendaries and many things announced in these two years.

Now, tell me what of these things are supposed to be added into the game soon? Cause everything i’ve heard so far, it’s just they want to use the LS to add things into the game. In 2020 we’ll be still waiting to go on Crystal Desert, probably.

I’m probably one of the most active player on the world in this game, but i can understand that right now the game points to satisfy new players and people logging in once in a week.

I love how people think I don’t get what people are saying. It blows my mind.

I get it. What’s not to get. Guy A wants some stuff and Guy B wants some stuff, but those two guys…they may not want the same stuff.

The point is you’re right. A lot of stuff other MMOs have provided Anet hasn’t yet provided. That’s 100% true. What you’re missing is that some of us came here to get away from other MMOs. I don’t LIKE other MMOs or I’d be playing them.

Anet is focusing on the stuff that makes it different from other MMOs not the same. And those who like the features those MMOs have are feeling they’re missing out…and they are.

Doesn’t change a single thing I’ve said up until now. Not one, single thing.

Vlad Morbius.1759:

Vayne.8563:

I don’t think it’s pointless. Being disappointed is very very different from being lied to. It’s not a technical point. It’s a very important point.

One of them implies some sort of intentional misleading or malice. You may not think that’s important. I do.

I ran a store for a long time. If a customer was disappointed, that happened sometimes. If a customer said I lied to them (which didn’t happen), that was a completely different story.

Sure from the point of view of just looking at whether someone stays or goes, that’s a very important distinction. From the point of view of new people coming in and see the words like promise and lie…it’s simply unfair.

You are correct but at the end of the day the point is moot because he’s still leaving as are many people. Everyone I know that came into the game at the same time I did, with the exception of my wife are now gone. Bored and fed up with looking for answers that aren’t coming. As much as they want to continue to play ostrich regarding their long term plans, the cost of doing so could well be insurmountable in my opinion. It’s likely preventing many from pouring money into the game they probably would if they knew something they were excited about was coming. I know I have stopped purchasing because frankly I don’t like their current policy and that’s the only way I know how to bring it to their attention.

It’s always easy to say a point is moot when you’re not the one people are calling a liar. Maybe I’m more sensitive to that than most people but I don’t think I’d be happy callling someone a liar without having evidence they were intending to deceive.

People can make mistakes, people can be misunderstood, people can say stuff with great intentions that later turns out to be wrong….but it doesn’t make them liars.

It’s different to say I’m bored with the game, and there were things I thought were coming out that never made it. It’s another to say you promised me something.

As long as people are going to keep using these words, I’m going to protest the use of them. The end result may be the same, but the end result isn’t the only important thing.

That’s why the end doesn’t justify the means.

phys.7689:

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

Clerigo.9475:

I stopped playing GW2 last week, and i wont return until you guys deliver what was promised.

Normally I stop reading here, having us users stating that “things were promised” is the first step of devs ignoring us. For the record: nothing was promised as everything is subject to change.

Even if you seem to acknowledge the difficulty of finding something useful in these forums, you should consider: thousands of player replies with tens of thousands of different opinions.

doesnt really matter if he was technically promised or not, what matters is he isnt satisfied, and thus does not want to play anymore. Many people who have left didnt think they were promised something, they just left because the game didnt have enough new or interesting things to do.

Debating a promise or not is irrelevant, the lack of content they expected/wanted is why they left, promised or not.

keep telling people as they walk out of your business you promised them nothing, it will be similarly pointless.

I don’t think it’s pointless. Being disappointed is very very different from being lied to. It’s not a technical point. It’s a very important point.

One of them implies some sort of intentional misleading or malice. You may not think that’s important. I do.

I ran a store for a long time. If a customer was disappointed, that happened sometimes. If a customer said I lied to them (which didn’t happen), that was a completely different story.

Sure from the point of view of just looking at whether someone stays or goes, that’s a very important distinction. From the point of view of new people coming in and see the words like promise and lie…it’s simply unfair.

Ree Sosebee in the Manifesto was talking about the personal story. Colin was talking about dynamic events. Anet posted a clarification right after that to clarify since people had so many questions.