Guild Wars 2

Some people use extra accounts for storage. Some use it to farm stuff that you can get on holidays only once. Some people get extra mystic coins by doing dailies on both accounts.

As a simple example, you get a bonus yellow once per day for many meta events. That’s like 15 rare items guaranteed. But if you have a second account, you could farm the same events, get the guaranteed rares, and send them to your main account.

It’s not for everyone, but some people like to have that sort of advantage.

Nick.6972:

Vayne.8563:

great programming

Stop generalizing and face the facts.

The FACTS are, most spells in Guild Wars 1 you had to stand still to cast. That’s a fact. I’m not making that up. Or do you disagree with that?

I prefer to move and cast. Is that unreasonable to you?

The FACT is, I could go into 95% plus places in Guild Wars 1 PVe, cross my arms and beat stuff, because my heroes were so powerful. That’s a fact. And yes, I even mean hard mode.

The FACT is, Guild Wars 1 was called Build Wars by a lot of people for a reason. The building was the game. But builds are not combat. Building is building. Combat is combat. Sorry you can’t see a difference.

The fact is, some people like an dynamic combat system better than a static one. And some people like more skills to choose from, and to make all sorts of neat builds.

But it’s a fact that nothing exists in Guild Wars 2 like a permasin, that could literally tank pretty much forever, without taking damage. People complain about Guild Wars 2’s balancing…but compared to Guild Wars 1, there’s no comparison.

You accuse me of being a Guild Wars 2 fan boy…does anyone else see the hypocrisy here?

maddoctor.2738:

mrstealth.6701:

Vayne.8563:

But doesn’t nearly give you the same type of advantage. Apples to apples. You had to grind Luxon/Kurzick ranks if you wanted to say, have an imbagon paragon. That became required.

The WvW stuff that you get isn’t on the same level. It’s passive stuff, not active skills. So you get it by playing.

Both gave you advantages that made your character better in some way. In fact, the wvw abilty advantages are bigger/better because they aren’t just effecting 1-2 skills (you could only have 2 allegiance skills at any given time) on your bar. In fact the single example you gave was likely the only allegiance skill (the warrior’s Save Yourselves that was used by Paragon/Warriors) that actually had a noticable effect on anything. The only other that was frequently used was Summon Spirits, and that skill’s main function didn’t care if you were rank 1 or rank 12. The other 8 skills were minor support for just your own build that never saw much use.

May I remind both of you that Arenanet changed the Allegiance ranks to scale up to rank 6 in effectiveness.

Anything above that, was only there for the title, as at rank 6 your faction skills were already maxed out in effectiveness. For Save Yourselves specifically, rank 5 was the maximum you needed, it was capped at 6seconds at rank 5 so any rank above it was “wasted”. Getting to a healthy rank 5 or 6 wasn’t very “grindy” either, you just had to complete Factions in NM/HM – Vanquish Luxon zones and do the Deep a few times. Of course you could get it just by doing PVP too. Getting to rank 12 was an enormous grind, no matter how you look at it, but it was completely optional and didn’t give any kind of benefit.

They changed it six years into the game. They also changed the alcohol title track, the survivor title track, the Defender of Ascalon Title track (by putting dailies in Pre, so you didn’t have to death level). All these changes were done for one reason. To make getting achievements easier. Why? Because Guild Wars 2 was coming out and that’s pretty much where they want people.

Relatively few people are going to want to grind away for achievements in Guild Wars 1 anymore. It’s not like the old days. There are less players, so they’re making it easier to play/survive, including allowing people to use 7 heroes.

I don’t see how Anet making these changes has any bearing on the current discussion.

Nemmar.8491:

Nick.6972:

“Guild Wars 2 takes everything you love about Guild Wars 1, and puts it into a persistent world.”
This sentence offends me and the people I know who loved GW1 the most.

Imagine – Apple Iphone 7 Conference -
" We founded Apple to innovate, so Iphone 7 is our opportunity to question everything.

Iphone 7 takes everything we know you loved about previous Iphones and puts it into this full qwerty keyboard phone with no touchscreen function, additionally, now we’re using Android Os."

Like really?

This is exactly my main problem with GW2.

We were promised GW1 in a persistant world, and that is far from what we got.
Also this was the original promise when the game was first announced, back in the day. That was all that was needed.
Why oh why did anet have to go and ruin the awesome combat system? That was the best thing about GW1 and they threw it off the window like a vulgar kitten.

Anet give us the Guild Wars 2 you promised. I dont care about the later promises or details. Years ago after nightfall you announced EotN and GW2 and you said you would stop supporting GW1 to make GW2 a persistant GW1. We all liked that idea… why did you change that? You killed GW1 for this?! I loved GW1, it was my home. I am deeply wounded by what you have done with GW2. Me am my guildies waited years in antecipation only to be greeted by a repetitive and boring game with no teamwork and now everyone went their separate ways.
You destroyed communities and the hearts of those that loved GW1. Its lost forever now. GW2 is beyond redemption, you blew it anet.

The only thing left to do now if you want to recover your old sucess i use the GW2 engine and make a GW3 that is what you originally promised us: GW1 in a persistant world.

Some of us prefer Guild Wars 2 combat. Static combat sucks. Guild Wars 1 had some great tools to build, but the combat was nothing to write home about.

The combination of rubberbanding and stuff like the bridge bug, where you couldn’t hit something on a bridge with a bow wasn’t exactly great programming either.

People have this magical memory of this happier time. It was a good game. I enjoyed it. But the combat system had myriad flaws, not the least of which was it was absolutely impossible to balance, and you pretty much won or lost before you ever left an outpost, simply on the strength of your builds (which you could look up).

It wasn’t called build wars for nothing.

Maybe I should take a break…from the forums. lol

I agree. If I had to grind for stuff, I’d hate it.

mrstealth.6701:

Vayne.8563:

But doesn’t nearly give you the same type of advantage. Apples to apples. You had to grind Luxon/Kurzick ranks if you wanted to say, have an imbagon paragon. That became required.

The WvW stuff that you get isn’t on the same level. It’s passive stuff, not active skills. So you get it by playing.

Both gave you advantages that made your character better in some way. In fact, the wvw abilty advantages are bigger/better because they aren’t just effecting 1-2 skills (you could only have 2 allegiance skills at any given time) on your bar. In fact the single example you gave was likely the only allegiance skill (the warrior’s Save Yourselves that was used by Paragon/Warriors) that actually had a noticable effect on anything. The only other that was frequently used was Summon Spirits, and that skill’s main function didn’t care if you were rank 1 or rank 12. The other 8 skills were minor support for just your own build that never saw much use.

You don’t have to grind it because everything you do in WvW gets you that experience. Everything.

Not like Luxon and Kurzick stuff, where you had to do specific things (admittedly there was a range of them), to get that stuff.

Basically if you just play WvW (which is what WvW players do) you’ll go up in rank. That’s it. You just play. You don’t have to do anything differently. You don’t have to grind. You don’t have to farm. You just play…and eventually those levels will take care of themselves.

The only one making it a grind is you, through lack of patience. I mean the only people who really care about WvW rank are people who WvW most. And those people get them by playing the game.

I didn’t have to grind for my GW1 allegiance titles. Everything I did in Alliance Battles, Ft. Aspenwood, Jade Quarry, or any pve zone in Cantha gave me those points. Everything.

There was no specific activity. “just play AB/FA/JQ” is no more or less specific than “just play wvw”. Sure some people decided that speedclear grinding certain pve maps was the “only” way to get the title, but it was most certainly not. I never did a single speedclear of anything during the 7 years I played.

And I don’t believe I ever referred to wxp as a grind, although in some ways it is. Primarily because it has to be repeated on a per-character basis. It’s active discouragement for playing more than a single character in wvw. And it’s also turning into a progression treadmill because they keep adding more and more abilities to the list.

It’s giving people already playing WvW something to work towards and that’s all it’s doing.

Min/maxers who are so worried about this stuff will suffer. I’m pretty sure most players aren’t screaming about this. Hard core WvW guys who are convinced 1 or 2% damage makes a difference will care.

Not that I’d care if it was account bound, I just don’t think the stuff is so useful that it’s going to make that much of a difference.

Nick.6972:

“Guild Wars 2 takes everything you love about Guild Wars 1, and puts it into a persistent world.”
This sentence offends me and the people I know who loved GW1 the most.

Imagine – Apple Iphone 7 Conference -
" We founded Apple to innovate, so Iphone 7 is our opportunity to question everything.

Iphone 7 takes everything you loved about previous Iphones and puts it into this full qwerty keyboard phone with no touchscreen function."

Yes, we KNOW your’e offfended. Guild Wars 1 was the best game ever made, it had no flaws, and everyone loved it so much it was a house hold name.

Unfortunately, that one single line from the entire manifesto wasn’t true. But there was SO much information about this game before it launched, from skills being bound to weapons, to how dynamic events worked to how the personal story worked.

You took one line out of a manifesto, and it’s offended you so bad, you take no responsibility for not actually listening to anything else Anet said. Because 90% of what they said is what the game is.

You just weren’t listening.

Nurvus.2891:

Still we are discussing english and interpretation. What is the purpose of this? Are you trying to win the argument or something?
First you say no one said there wouldn’t be grinding in end game.
Now you say that I’m making up my own definition of what they meant by grinding.
What grinding is, doesn’t change.

Take off the tinted glasses for a little bit.
Colin Johanson: “When you look at the art in our game, you say ‘Wow, that’s visually stunning. I’ve never seen anything like that before,’ and then when you play the combat in our game, you say ‘Wow, that’s incredible. I’ve never seen anything like that.’ In most games, you go out, and you have really fun tasks, occasionally, that you get to do, and the rest of the game is this boring grind to get to the fun stuff. ‘I swung a sword. I swung a sword again. Hey! I swung it again.’ That’s great. We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one enjoys that. No one finds it fun. We want to change the way that people view combat.”

This is ALL he said. Right? I’m not missing anything.
You try to link everything together, making assumptions.
My english isn’t perfect, but it’s not that bad.

Colin didn’t say “We want to change the way that people view leveling.” wich I would completely agree with if he had, and it’s what you try to imply he meant.
What he DID say was “We want to change the way that people view combat.”
Combat.
Combat, leveling and content are distinct things.

Colin didn’t say “We don’t want players to grind to get to the fun stuff.”
He said “We don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2.”

When he says “No one enjoys that. No one finds it fun.” what do you think he meant?
Again, you probably think he meant “grinding to get to the fun stuff.”
No, he meant grinding. Period.
Grinding isn’t the same as grinding to get to the fun stuff.
Grinding is grinding.
Grinding to get to the fun stuff, is grinding PLUS waiting to get to the fun stuff.
Two different things.

Even if Colin himself said that he meant what you say he did, I still believe today’s ANet isn’t holding the same principles they did in the manifesto, and it worries me.

Almost everything ANet changed in GW2 from alpha to beta to launch was in the likeness of a certain popular MMO.

I hope it’s clarified.
—-

And now a question for you:
Do you feel like the game represents the design philosophy ANet shared in the Manifesto?
Because everyone I know doesn’t.
Certain aspects of the game are clearly in the right track, but none of them is just as they said they wanted it to be.

The game doesn’t care that you’re there.
You don’t feel like a hero.
The boss you killed respawns 10 minutes later.
Fighting is a grind in most of the game, specially end game – although bosses and certain DEs give you interesting fights.

A clear example of “grinding” is the fact that 95% of non-Boss enemies have a bland fighting style.
They have a health pool, and a dps.
Sometimes, they have a cheesy attack, like stun or pull.
You barely ever see enemies using condition removal, healing, boon removal, defensive skills, etc.
You can rush to 99% of enemies and just burst them down, meaning you do the same thing over and over again throughout nearly all of your encounters.

In GW1, almost all enemy skills were the same skills available to players.
Exceptions being some mission bosses and a few hard mode enemies.
The simplest of enemies would regularly drop something you actually wanted.

In GW2, there is a great randomness in almost everything you do, making repeating the same activity almost mandatory to obtain results.
When it comes to fighting, it’s grinding.

Unfortunately I’ve edited for a living. I know a thing or two about English. When we had this argument originally on the forums I talked to other editors. Every single one of them agrees with me. The first sentence using the word grind gave the context, the second referred to it.

Frankly if you can’t agree with that, there’s absolutely nothing to talk about. You simply don’t know enough about the language to argue it.

If he hadn’t mentioned grind in the first place and defined it in that first sentence, you’d be right.

mrstealth.6701:

Vayne.8563:

You could do it in a weekend if you grinded. And I’m not sure how late in the piece those double point weekends were brought into play. I’m pretty sure when NF game out they didn’t exist. They were added later, after many people already grinded lightbringer points.

The point is, they already set a precedent for this type of grind in Guild Wars 1…and you’re right, some of those other titles were changed quite late in the piece. I’m sure hundreds of thousands of people did the wisdom grind before it was account bound.

These things exist to give people stuff to do when games are new and have less content. More content gets added and then achievements and grind for stuff gets easier.

It’s like this in every new game….for a reason. New games have to slow down progress, or no one would have anything to do.

Again, the scale of the Factions’ allegiance ranks and the Eye of the North racial reputation ranks are not even comparable. Even a casual player could finish all of those ranks in a matter of weeks, maybe a few months. A single faction allegiance title would take months for even the most hardcore player.

I could max every one of those racial/pve titles on all 10 GW1 professions in a fraction of the amount of gameplay hours it took me to get my Kurzick title done.

The scale of the allegiance ranks is comparable to that of the WXP ranks in wvw. Yet for whatever reason, that has been left as character-based. Take the lesson learned so many years ago in GW1 and apply it to GW2. Make them account-based.

But doesn’t nearly give you the same type of advantage. Apples to apples. You had to grind Luxon/Kurzick ranks if you wanted to say, have an imbagon paragon. That became required.

The WvW stuff that you get isn’t on the same level. It’s passive stuff, not active skills. So you get it by playing. You don’t have to grind it because everything you do in WvW gets you that experience. Everything.

Not like Luxon and Kurzick stuff, where you had to do specific things (admittedly there was a range of them), to get that stuff.

Basically if you just play WvW (which is what WvW players do) you’ll go up in rank. That’s it. You just play. You don’t have to do anything differently. You don’t have to grind. You don’t have to farm. You just play…and eventually those levels will take care of themselves.

The only one making it a grind is you, through lack of patience. I mean the only people who really care about WvW rank are people who WvW most. And those people get them by playing the game.

Before those ranks were introduced, most people who WvW’ed play WvW a lot anyway. Just do the same thing and you’ll go up.

darkace.8925:

Vayne.8563:

…without being criticized?

I can understand why people wouldn’t like the nerf to ranger pets (particularly PvE’ers). But lately there’ve been some threads that are just amazing to me.

Content patches are coming too fast.

Do you not see why some would complain about this particular point? There are some who work more than 40 hours a week and have familial obligations that come before gaming. And even though they love GW2, their hectic schedules and the temporary nature of the LS updates means they’re missing out on a lot of content they’d very much like to experience.

Edit 1: Do keep in mind the difference between a criticisms and a complaint. Criticisms generally come from people who enjoy the game, but feel this or that about it could be better. Complaints generally come from people who think the game should be built specifically to satisfy them alone.

Edit 2: To answer your question, I don’t believe I saw any complaints when we were given the ability to choose the five of however many achievements we wanted to complete for our dailies.

I remember complaints about people and the choosing of achievements, because people were still complaining it wasn’t good enough, and they should be back to the original achievements, because even with choosing there aren’t enough options and people have to “go out of their way” to do some of them or lose out on their laurel.

mrstealth.6701:

Vayne.8563:

@Mr Stealth

Except that most of the allegiance ranks in Guild Wars 1, the ones that increased actual skills, were character bound…Sunspear, lightbringer, norn, deldrimor, ebon vangard, asura…all character bound.

If you leveled up your skill on one character, you had to do it on every other character as well.

Those ranks/titles are barely comparible to the Luxon/Kurzick ranks, or any other account-bound title. Maxing those were trivial in comparison, it could be done in a weekend, especially with the frequent double-reputation events. Completing just one of the two faction allegiance ranks was an endeavor that took months, if not years.

That being said, there was still a large number of players (myself included) that did ask for a very long time for those titles to be made account-based as well.

You could do it in a weekend if you grinded. And I’m not sure how late in the piece those double point weekends were brought into play. I’m pretty sure when NF game out they didn’t exist. They were added later, after many people already grinded lightbringer points.

The point is, they already set a precedent for this type of grind in Guild Wars 1…and you’re right, some of those other titles were changed quite late in the piece. I’m sure hundreds of thousands of people did the wisdom grind before it was account bound.

These things exist to give people stuff to do when games are new and have less content. More content gets added and then achievements and grind for stuff gets easier.

It’s like this in every new game….for a reason. New games have to slow down progress, or no one would have anything to do.

Nurvus.2891:

Wow, okay. I’ll try to be more clear then.

When Colin DEFINES what grinding is, he doesn’t define it as “having to wait to get to the fun stuff”.

He says that in most games you grind TO GET to the fun stuff.
This means grinding and “waiting to get to the fun stuff” are different things.
Then he even mocks grinding by giving an example: “I swung a sword. I swung a sword again. Hey! I swung it again”.
Finally, he says that (the grinding: “I swung a sword. I swung a sword again. Hey! I swung it again”) is not what they want players to do in GW2.

I’m just being objective regarding a matter I’m concerned about.
I linked the whole video, and whole sentences.
I didn’t grab single sentences out of context.
I’m not posting this 1 or 2 months after launch.
I’m posting it more than 7 months later.
What I see in the game today, and what they shared in the Manifesto, is fundamentally different, and that feeling as sunk into me throughout these long months of play.

And even if for some reason Colin DID mean what you say he did – I’m willing to assume he may not have used the exact words he intended, and that he meant what you say he did – dungeons are STILL all about GRINDING your way through the trash mobs until you reach the bosses (read: fun stuff).

GW1 had “trash” mobs, but they felt more like challenges than trash.
And you would almost always have an interesting task, such as escorting an NPC through those mobs, or reaching 3 levers that open the frost gate (prophecies) or a certain mission starts relatively easy, but beating one area gives the other areas its power, such that by the time 3 areas are beaten, the last area is very hard.

Currently, you just defeat the same kind of monsters over and over again as you dash between bosses.

No that’s not what it means. I’m not sure you reading this at all.

In most games you grind “to get to” the fun stuff means what it says it means. You don’t get to fun stuff until you grind. First you grind, then you get to the fun stuff.

This is backed up by countless early interviews, where Anet talked about how most games are when you have to get to max level and then the game completely changes and you can finally start to raid. And that’s not what they wanted to do in Guild Wars 2. They didn’t want there to be leveling, and then fun stuff. They wanted there to be fun stuff throughout. That’s what he’s saying.

Furthermore, if you look at the last line of the paragraph, he says “we want to change the way people view COMBAT.”

Where is this paragraph is gear mentioned? Or tokens? Or farming? It’s not. What he’s talking about is combat.

Maybe you never played games like Aion where you ran out of quests when it was released and the only way to level was to kill the same bosses over and over again, until you could finally get to the next thing. A LOT of games are like that and that’s what he’s talking about.

All you’re doing is assigning YOUR definition of what you think grind is to a statement that has nothing to do with that at all.

But believe what you want. Everyone can read what you said and what I said and decide for themselves how the English plays out.

mrstealth.6701:

darkace.8925:

rhodoc.2381:

So how they gonna make money without doing classical buy2play expansions?

rng boxes.

Who in their right mind would buy those dragon coffers from the gemstore when you can easily get hundreds of the droppable version for free? Unless the chance to get a ticket from them is 50% (or at least 30%), they simply are not worth bothering with. And if items are made exclusive to gemstore boxes, the player backlash is brutal…and rightfully so.

People bought them. How many people we’ll never know, but I know people personally who did.

@Mr Stealth

Except that most of the allegiance ranks in Guild Wars 1, the ones that increased actual skills, were character bound…Sunspear, lightbringer, norn, deldrimor, ebon vangard, asura…all character bound.

If you leveled up your skill on one character, you had to do it on every other character as well.

Tachenon.5270:

Fix all clipping issues, including charr tails/armor?

There you go.

Unless someone complained that Anet was wasting all this time on one race, what about the other clipping issues to non-Charr characters. lol

Not unless I can death level.

CrossedHorse.4261:

Morrigan.2809:

No I don’t think there is such a thing.
I am becoming really amazed at the people on this forum- so much so that I log on here less and less because I simply am so tired of the constant clamoring.

In game just the last couple of days I have run into a literal horde of brand new players, they are all wide eyed and blown away and so excited, it reminded me of pre launch when no-one knew anything and the community figured stuff out together.

That is what I play for, the in game community and the amazing game we experience together and Anet must be doing something right there.

^This. It’s easy to forget that wide-eyed wonder NEVER lasts. With anything. Doesn’t mean the magic’s gone, just that we’ve got used to something. And alas, the more you get used to, the more you start to demand. People constantly say “I remember when GW2 first released and X and X was so amazing …” it is STILL amazing. We’ve just normalised it now and so we expect more. “Keep us in this child-like state of awe!” we cry. Well, people have always asked for the impossible.

Maybe I’m just more easily entertained than some people. Reminds me of when I went back to Guild Wars 1, which I played for five years, to help guildies get points for their HoM.

I almost never took Vekk as a hero, but the person I was helping did. And in one of the cut scenes, because Vekk was with us, I got different dialogue than I’d ever had before. I loved it.

I come across stuff like this in Guild Wars 2 all the time.

You do realize you only need to do 4 of the monthly categories to get credit for your monthly?

The two best ways to get groups for dungeons is to either join a guild, or to use gw2lfg.com , which is a third party websites to find dungeon groups.

Anet is in the process of finishing their group find utility but we don’t have an ETA on it yet.

Chuo.4238:

Vayne.8563:

Is there any single thing Anet has done, or can do that someone wouldn’t complain about?

There are people who would complain if you gave them fifty dollars. So somebody will always complain. Why be fussed about those sorts? Why complain about the complainers, or get all upset over it? If it bothers you, I’d respectfully suggest that forums are not something you should be reading.

To be fair, however, ArenaNet have deserved quite a lot of the criticism directed at them since launch. It’s easy enough to tell who’s got a legitimate criticism, and who doesn’t. I, for one, appreciate that people are willing to say when they don’t like something. It gives ArenaNet a bit of insight into the community and market, and also a chance to adjust and fine-tune their course.

Imagine this game with no feedback. All development decisions would be guesses, and there would be a much higher chance of it just becoming awful.

This isn’t meant to be a complaint thread to complain about the complainers and if it came off that way, I’m sorry.

This is a thread to possibly discuss what Anet could announce that EVERYONE could get behind. Think of it as an exercise in futility. lol

Insignya.8625:

This is basically the most pointless forum I’ve seen in my life. There’s not a single dev response in the Suggestions section, General Discussion is just for reds to troll and everything else is similarly empty. What’s it about?

I started this thread to help the developers see what they should improve. Now it’s once again pointless quoting and argues. I’m not gonna be a part of these things anymore, I’m tired of it. The purpose of forums is to get feedback from the community. If you want to kick out the people who loved your game, Arena.NET, fine by me. Do hire more forum warriors next time so I can be sure from the start you don’t care at all about what people say.

See you in Wildstar.

Yes, the purpose of this forum is to give feedback to devs. That doesn’t mean that people who have contrary feedback shouldn’t be allowed to voice their opinions either.

You’ve voiced your opinion, I’ve voiced mine. Why does that undermine what you’ve said.

The devs are smart guys who can look at both sides of an issue and weigh what is being said and what they want to do with it. In the mean time, they have to hear BOTH sides to weigh it.

There’s plenty of constructive criticism on these forums. There are also people who think some suggested changes are simply taking the game in the wrong direct.

You’re right. These forums are for players to have a voice…but that should include players on BOTH sides of the divide.

TwoBit.5903:

The game’s achievements feel more like rewards for tasks than achievements. Getting a perfect score on a difficult physics test? Now that’s an achievement. GW2’s achievments, which consist of running around 250 generic mobs and pressing f, is more along the lines of getting an obligatory gold star for finishing your homework in first grade.

Yep achievements is a bad word for it. But the dungeon master title felt like an achievement to me.

I was asking the question quite literally. Is there anything that they can say/do in game that someone wouldn’t complain about. I’m actually interested in what that thing would be.

…without being criticized?

I can understand why people wouldn’t like the nerf to ranger pets (particularly PvE’ers). But lately there’ve been some threads that are just amazing to me.

Content patches are coming too fast.
People are being rewarded for achievement points so now we’ll have to grind achievement points.
Getting quartz in your home instance on one character is unfair to altoholics.
Monthlies are too easy.
They’re sleazy because they’re rewarding people in game for signing up to their facebook site.

Is there any single thing Anet has done, or can do that someone wouldn’t complain about?

bewhatever.2390:

Vayne.8563:

goldenwing.8473:

Vayne, this will be my last response to you because you seem to be determined to create drama where there is none. I don’t understand what appears to be the need to create misinterpretation, implication or assumptions. Feel free to have the “last word” as there is no argument here.

I, (and I believe others), have merely expressed feelings of disappointment.

As I said in my original post, I am sure ANet will hit their “mark”.

I get that you’re saying people are expressing their disappointment. I just don’t understand what exists to express disappointment over.

If I saw a commerical on TV trying to sell a product and they offered a free whatever for signing up for something, I wouldn’t be disappointed. I don’t see anything to be disappointed over. This isn’t some sort of election and Anet is trying to pork barrel for votes. Because they’re not competing directly against anyone.

I’m not sure what they’re supposed to have done wrong here.

Ever notice that radio stations run these amazing contests, which to win you have to listen all day to have the opportunity to compete for a very rich prize? And that they only run them during ratings week, during which an objective third party makes objective measurements of how many listeners each station has, which in effect determines what they can charge for advertising?

That’s gaming the system, to inflate the measured number of listeners, which inflates the price advertisers are charged all year long. While “everyone does it”, in egregious cases that little ethical voice in my head says the radio stations are just plain cheating the advertisers.

On a scale of ethical (I run advertising whose response is click on my company’s Facebook page, and once on that page I invite you to “like”), to unethical (I have a page that says click here if you like Obama and another place if you don’t, each of which puts a like on a generic-named page which after it accumulates enough likes is sold to the highest bidder), what GW2 is doing is definitely within the rules and leans toward the ethical.

But those likes drive viewership and visibility toward GW2’s page. In competition with other companies’ pages. They’re being bought, not earned.

Another question is how many other games that are “competing” or in the same genre are doing the same or similar things. Should a company kitten itself by staying away from doing that?

Insignya.8625:

@Vayne, yeah, I’ve been everywhere because the first 2 months I played Guild Wars 2 like Skyrim. What now? When the first impressions are over where should I go? To some hidden jumping puzzle that will award me with blues? Those qualities are indicative of single-player games, like Skyrim or Witcher 2. Only they do it 10 times better. Guild Wars 2 is meant to last and give meaningful content to run multiple times. Except it has zero replay value and nothing to go for once it’s over. And I have 5 alts in addition to my main. I never make alts in a game, but that’s what Guild Wars 2 is, it’s a great journey and nothing more. Can you admit you’ve committed to this game? Because pretty much everyone who tries to ends up disappointed and I didn’t want to be disappointed because I found Guild Wars 2 to be amazing until I did.

Keeping it civil? Gee that’s hard, when people have been writing here for days and Colin is just trolling the forums. I’ve never seen developers this blind-folded. Log on to the League’s forums and you’ll see reds replying to threads with 500 views. It’s always been like this – they take the criticism and concern and they communicate. Even if they’re right in that regard, they’ll still take the time to explain why it’s like that in LoL.

What Arena.NET is doing is cowardly, it’s pathetic. If you’re not gonna talk to your community then all you care about is profit, not a better experience. I have no reason to believe the devs want to improve Guild Wars 2, when all we get is PR talk. I don’t want your ridiculous promises, Colin! I want actual transparency. You don’t look like a gamer in your interviews, you look like someone who has zero interest in making a worthwhile product. It’s so apparent when a developer is actually concerned with the community’s wishes and when he’s copy-pasting the same thing every time with zero context.

Gee, I must not be enjoying myself, because it has zero replay value. Who knew?

It has zero replay value to you. I’m replaying lots of stuff and having fun. Lots of other people seem to be too.

As for transparency, I don’t blame Anet for not saying everything they’re working on. If they change their mind even a little, someone will start a thread about how Anet lied to them. Given that situation, I wouldn’t tell this community anything until I had it absolutely nailed down. And even then, I’d get an editor, a lawyer and a philosopher to check it over before I said anything.

And cowardly and pathetic? Really? Judgmental much? The more I listen to your opinion the more glad I am that I don’t share it.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Vayne.8563:

Peetee.9406:

Without ‘those people’ you wouldn’t have ranks in WvW, spectator mode in sPvP or fractals.

Untrue, at least in the case of spectator mode. Guild Wars 1 had spectator mode and it was always intended to be in Guild Wars 2…it just didn’t get in at launch.

And I’m relatively sure Fractals was planned before launch too. Anet has said ascended gear was planned before launch and never made it into the game.

Not sure if the ranks in WvW were planned or not, there’s no way to know.

Untrue again, spectator mode was intended but without the pressure of the PvP-Forum it would have been introduced months later. Especially in the case of PvP those critical players are really needed. Also balanced changes for PvP are based on feedback (most of this feedback is written in a negative way).
I don’t know how it is in PvE as I’m not into it, but for PvP the critical players make the difference, not the agreeing ones.

You have no evidence that it would have been introduced months later, because it was announced before the game launched. You simply are saying you BELIEVE it got released early.

I’ve never seen evidence that Anet releases anything until they CHOOSE to release it. Because it’s always been planned, because it was mentioned before launch, because it existed in the previous incarnation of the game, I can’t see how you can prove that it came out sooner than it would have.

In fact, I think coming out when it did is pretty much when they thought it would likely come out.

goldenwing.8473:

Vayne, this will be my last response to you because you seem to be determined to create drama where there is none. I don’t understand what appears to be the need to create misinterpretation, implication or assumptions. Feel free to have the “last word” as there is no argument here.

I, (and I believe others), have merely expressed feelings of disappointment.

As I said in my original post, I am sure ANet will hit their “mark”.

I get that you’re saying people are expressing their disappointment. I just don’t understand what exists to express disappointment over.

If I saw a commerical on TV trying to sell a product and they offered a free whatever for signing up for something, I wouldn’t be disappointed. I don’t see anything to be disappointed over. This isn’t some sort of election and Anet is trying to pork barrel for votes. Because they’re not competing directly against anyone.

I’m not sure what they’re supposed to have done wrong here.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

Exotics are automatic for clearing the highest level zones, too. But many of them are so cheap on the marketplace, I’m not sure why it’s such a big deal.

I’ve gotten more exotic drops than most people here, but most of them aren’t worth much (particularly the account bound ones I get from Fractals).

I see it as a matter of principle. A major difference between GW and all of those other games was that you could get equipment (i.e., weapons, in that game) that were max tier as drops. Weapons you might actually want to use.

I suppose when I was awaiting GW2, I expected that max tier equipment would drop with somewhat greater frequency than it does. It’s nice that we can craft exotics — although jewelers took an Ascended ring to the knee. Still, I think there is something wrong when I’ve gotten 1 more exotic from the Mystic Toilet than I have as drops over 1700 hours (and a lot of mob kills) — and I’ve spent less than 15 gold on items to put into the darned thing.

Maybe, or maybe the Mystic Forge is supposed to be a path to getting exotics. It all doesn’t have to be drops.

At any rate, I think there has to be something bugged in the drop rate, if people who play a lot aren’t getting them…assuming they’re doing the same types of things I am.

Mostly I get them in dungeons and fractals, zone completions of course, and occasionally from the meta event chests.

But the forge is just another way to get them too. It’s like Anet hedged their bets. Between crafting and the forge, even if they don’t drop for someone,. they’re attainable.

And you know, I had the same problem in Guild Wars 1, or a very similar one. In Guild Wars 1, it was so easy to get max stuff, almost nothing that dropped exited me at all. I mean yeah the ocassional lockpick drop, or the ocassional black/white dye drop, but most drops in Guild Wars 1, after a time, were less than meaningless.

Guild Wars 2 seems to suffer a similar problem.

In game experience may vary. In GW, a gold drop never ailed to catch my interest. If nothing else, it was +1 to wisdom title. Also, I had a lot of alts, and after Nightfall came out, I had a lot of heroes to gear up. Then there were mods and inscriptions. Here, it’s maybe ecto, maybe a sigil that sells for more than 3s — otherwise yawn.

And I had more black dye drops in GW, also. ;D

It was plus 1 to my wisdom title until I got my wisdom title. And green drops ended up, for the most part, being worth nothing at all. Vendor trash.

I had a ton of alts too, but I also had a lot of free stuff I could give them, such as the hour glass staff, and the those sorts of things. You could have an infinite number of them just by typing /bonus. So I never really had trouble outfitting heroes.

And I get drops here that have runes that are worth what most ruins and insignias are worth in Guild Wars 2…or the equivalent. And yes, when I do get an exotic or something with a superior rune of divinity (which I’ve done twice) it’s quite special.

But I remember running dungeons in Guild Wars 1, getting to the end chest, getting a gold item or two in hard mode, and thinking meh…an awful lot in fact.

holodoc.5748:

Vayne.8563:

A treadmill is something you have to keep doing. HAVE TO.

In most games with a treadmill, you can’t enter a new raid without specific gear, which you have to keep running the old raid over and over to get. That’s a tread mill.

In Guild Wars 2 people can get achievement points for doing dailies. They can get them for doing monthlies. They can get them from WvW, SPvP, doing dungeons, mindless killing, using specific weapons.

Even if you dont’ focus on achievements you’ll get SOME achievement points.

If you don’t want to get the goggles, don’t get them. If you want to get them, some mesmer will portal you up (it happens all the time) and you can skip like 90% of the puzzle.

But it’s not a treadmill. Once you get that achievement you have it, but it’s not tied to any achievement. In other words, you don’t need that specific achievement to progress.

That’s not a treadmill. A treadmill is by definition a process of constantly raising the requirements for a certain accomplishment, no matter if I have to fulfill it or not. So independently of my choice to pursue the requirements they are still being raised.

And since this isn’t raising the requirements of anything but offering something totally new, it’s not a treadmill.

Insignya.8625:

When the whole genre requires you to be immersed, challenged and rewarded and see your character progress and Guild Wars 2 does none of these things, then it’s just an MMO, not an RPG. If anything, Arena.NET is doing everything possible to not have a single RPG aspect in this game.

It’s just beyond stupid that I can find a goal in Skyrim, a game that’s 2 years old and I’ve modded over 50 times, yet Guild Wars 2 shows me the door every time I do the Living Story. So hooow exactly is this an RPG? I forgot, I’m meant to skip around and “have fun”. Well guess what, if I can beat 90% of the game in alt-tab and don’t have a single item to pursue that doesn’t involve ludacris amounts of grinding (I’m sorry, Arena.NET, there’s no grinding) or a 0.00001% chance to get by spending 1 gold in a slot machine, then the game is simply not fun for me.

If I wanted an experience that doesn’t last I’d be playing single-player games. MMOs are meant to evolve, not provide 2 hours of new “content” every 2 weeks and a bunch of achievements that are just as pointless and boring as they’ve been in every other MMO. There’s your “step in the right direction”: a once great game that’s now a Barbie Dress Shop. Heck, you can find more end game even there if you’re trying to date Ken.

I think you have a limited time to see this because the Moderator automatically deletes every reply to Vayne.

Maybe the moderator deletes your responses because you don’t like to keep it civil.

There’s tons of stuff in this game that would appeal to an RPGer. Attention to detail is one of them. Having stuff just happen in the world, instead of talking to an NPC is another. And the abilility to turn off map markers can make the game very RPGish. Because you’re exploring without knowing where to go. That is one of the choices you can access. If you haven’t, I would suggest that’s your issue, not the games. The game’s issue is not making it more clear that this can be done.

I’m an old time RPGer and I love this game, because I can just wander around and find stuff. I’m not overly worried about going to where an arrow points me. I love the little hidden stuff, like the hidden event in AC for example. It’s not marked on any map, you just have to find it. Entrances to some of the mini dungeons are that way too.

Of course, if you run to the wiki or Dulfy to find stuff, then you’re not looking for an RPG in the first place.

Serelisk.6573:

Vayne.8563:

There are minigames in some of the Living stories too. Why aren’t they permanent? Why does no one play keg brawl except on days that it’s part of the daily.

They’ve had crab toss and dragon ball and mini games for Christmas and PvP for Christmas and halloween.

I’m not sure what the complaining is about? That we don’t have a minigame that people would have long since stopped caring about?

There’s plenty of content for people who like mini games with more around the corner.

That’s is a pretty insulting argument to make. I’ll give you the personal reason why I’m pretty kitten ed about this whole thing, because I refuse to be broad stroked by your image of “people who like mini games”…

The only mini game they have currently which I’ve spent more than my fair share of time playing is completely unsupported. It got two updates way back in the beginning of fall that didn’t fix the main issue that was there before, the one being a completely game breaking mechanic where you can score from any spot in the arena with minimal amounts of practice. It makes the game almost unplayable when you have several players doing this; the only reprieve being the small amount of thrill there is to beat someone repeatedly using a broken mechanic through conventional means. But it can’t be fun for a new player who has zero chance of even learning the kitten game if the keg sails high over their head every 12 seconds. And it’s not fun for me to have to deal with that kind of game play because there’s absolutely no way the game was meant to be played like that. arguably 8/10 skills available through all of keg brawl become absolutely irrelevant.

Furthermore, there’s no way to enjoy this socially without jumping through amazingly impossible hoops and barriers. There’s no leader boards or ladders, ranks, one title that was bugged for 5 months, there’s no way to even guarantee you’ll get into the same match as your friends… there’s no custom matches or reward tokens/cosmetic gear (part of the promise that disappeared with the other supposed 29 activities) Source

And it’s been 10 months. Sure, there were holiday activities, and I’m not mad that they’re not in the game. They’re seasonal, it makes sense. I don’t expect to be playing Snowball fights in May. But when I hear a crier every time I’m in Divinity’s Reach saying to try Mina’s Target shootout or go participate in Bar Brawl, you can imagine it being a little upsetting that it’s not possible and I fear may never be possible with each passing day that they don’t even acknowledge its existence.

Yep you’re right. You have every right to complain about it.

My apologies.

I’d like to offer my sympathy too. I’m glad you’ve had something to enjoy/comfort you at such a time.

goldenwing.8473:

“This isn’t even a storm in a teacup. It’s a drizzle in a thimble.”

I don’t believe anyone here is trying to create a storm. At least those doing nothing more than objectively expressing their feelings/values.

Saying a company shouldn’t try to get people to go to their facebook page, and or suggest it to friends is borderline ridiculous.

What values? Getting people to notice their product, or perhaps recommend it? This is what every single company does as far as I can tell. I’m not sure how this is somehow skewing Facebook.

Everyone is free to like the site or not, because no matter what any individual does, they’re going to hit 1 million regardless.

WarDice.9718:

Good RPG is about doing epic stuff and gaining juicy rewards which show other people that you did something huge in game.

This may be the least true statement I’ve ever seen on a forum. Maybe you mean MMO instead of RPG. Because RPGs can be single player or multiplayer and obviously, getting stuff in an RPG isn’t something you can show people, because it’s single player.

In fact, getting stuff in an RPG is a relatively recent invention. There are tons of RPGs where finishing the story/solving the puzzle is the main goal and items are incidental. I don’t know anyone who plays Skyrim to farm objects, and that’s most certainly an RPG.

The problem here is that WoW has made MMOs so popular that people can no longer disassociate the MMO aspect from the RPG aspect, when they’re completely separate and different things.

One of my criticisms of the genre as a whole is that most of it cares far more about the MMO part than the RPG part.

Guild Wars 2 is a step in the right direction. It’s not perfect, but it’s better than most of the other crap out there.

There are minigames in some of the Living stories too. Why aren’t they permanent? Why does no one play keg brawl except on days that it’s part of the daily.

They’ve had crab toss and dragon ball and mini games for Christmas and PvP for Christmas and halloween.

I’m not sure what the complaining is about? That we don’t have a minigame that people would have long since stopped caring about?

There’s plenty of content for people who like mini games with more around the corner.

Nurvus.2891:

@Vayne
They specifically say:
“We just don’t want players to grind in GW2.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35BPhT-KI1E#t=1m40s

I’m not twisting their words.
I’m not quoting them out of context either.

We grind dynamic events. Cycles of dynamic events, even.
We grind dungeons.
We grind fractals.
We are encouraged to repeat tasks.

What part of out of context are you having trouble with?

Do you know who takes single lines out of context and tries to make points with them? Lawyers and politicians. It’s actually bad reading comprehension to try to take a line out of context without considering the whole of the piece. THIS is what it actually says.

Colin Johanson: “When you look at the art in our game, you say ‘Wow, that’s visually stunning. I’ve never seen anything like that before,’ and then when you play the combat in our game, you say ‘Wow, that’s incredible. I’ve never seen anything like that.’ In most games, you go out, and you have really fun tasks, occasionally, that you get to do, and the rest of the game is this boring grind to get to the fun stuff. ‘I swung a sword. I swung a sword again. Hey! I swung it again.’ That’s great. We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one enjoys that. No one finds it fun. We want to change the way that people view combat.”

Now context means reading the first part and associating with with the second part. Colin is DEFINING what he means by grind in this pargraph. In most games there’s this boring grind to get to the fun stuff…when he says we don’t want people to grind in Guild Wars 2, and then says three sentences later we don’t want people to grind in Guild Wars 2, it’s obviously liked to what he said in the first instance of the use of the word grind.

In MMO parlance, grinding orginally meant killing mobs to gain experience to level. It’s come to mean other things which is WHY Anet took the time to define it within the manifesto. You can ignore if if you like but don’t complain when you take a single sentence out of context and try to assign a different context to it.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

Exotics are automatic for clearing the highest level zones, too. But many of them are so cheap on the marketplace, I’m not sure why it’s such a big deal.

I’ve gotten more exotic drops than most people here, but most of them aren’t worth much (particularly the account bound ones I get from Fractals).

I see it as a matter of principle. A major difference between GW and all of those other games was that you could get equipment (i.e., weapons, in that game) that were max tier as drops. Weapons you might actually want to use.

I suppose when I was awaiting GW2, I expected that max tier equipment would drop with somewhat greater frequency than it does. It’s nice that we can craft exotics — although jewelers took an Ascended ring to the knee. Still, I think there is something wrong when I’ve gotten 1 more exotic from the Mystic Toilet than I have as drops over 1700 hours (and a lot of mob kills) — and I’ve spent less than 15 gold on items to put into the darned thing.

Maybe, or maybe the Mystic Forge is supposed to be a path to getting exotics. It all doesn’t have to be drops.

At any rate, I think there has to be something bugged in the drop rate, if people who play a lot aren’t getting them…assuming they’re doing the same types of things I am.

Mostly I get them in dungeons and fractals, zone completions of course, and occasionally from the meta event chests.

But the forge is just another way to get them too. It’s like Anet hedged their bets. Between crafting and the forge, even if they don’t drop for someone,. they’re attainable.

And you know, I had the same problem in Guild Wars 1, or a very similar one. In Guild Wars 1, it was so easy to get max stuff, almost nothing that dropped exited me at all. I mean yeah the ocassional lockpick drop, or the ocassional black/white dye drop, but most drops in Guild Wars 1, after a time, were less than meaningless.

Guild Wars 2 seems to suffer a similar problem.

I understand you completely, OP. This game fits my play style almost perfectly and it’s obviously the intention of the devs to appeal to people in my demographic…and the criticism I’ve seen or some of the suggestions about how to “improve” the game would gut it from my point of view.

But I think Anet knows what they’re looking to do, and I expect you and I will still be enjoying the game long after those who want a different game have moved on.

I strongly believe there are more than enough of “us” out there.

Peetee.9406:

Without ‘those people’ you wouldn’t have ranks in WvW, spectator mode in sPvP or fractals.

Untrue, at least in the case of spectator mode. Guild Wars 1 had spectator mode and it was always intended to be in Guild Wars 2…it just didn’t get in at launch.

And I’m relatively sure Fractals was planned before launch too. Anet has said ascended gear was planned before launch and never made it into the game.

Not sure if the ranks in WvW were planned or not, there’s no way to know.

bewhatever.2390:

Vayne.8563:

goldenwing.8473:

Simply put:

There are 3 ways companies approach Facebook.

1) Have a “presence” and the “likes” are initiated by customers.

2) Troll for “likes” by rewarding them or otherwise artificially increasing them.

3) Falsify what a customer is “liking” so they can sell the site, along with the site’s “likes”.

I would have hoped ANet stayed with number one.

I’m disappointed they are with number two.

That was what I was expressing. Any assumptions otherwise are mistaken.

I’d be disappointed if any company that I supported didn’t take the opportunity to advertise where they could. This is a form of advertising, nothing more.

Why be disappointed with a company for advertising their product? They’re using limited resources to get the word out. Surely that’s what most companies do.

There’s a big difference between legitimate advertising (which companies in the first bucket do) where the response is following a link to facebook, and “we’ll give you a discount or freebie if you facebook like us”.

It’s an exploit, to increase facebook “likes” beyond what’s earned.

An exploit. Enough said.

It’s not an exploit. For decades companies use inducements to get you to use them. Banks offered toasters for opening accounts with them. What does a toaster have to do with banking.

Presumably, people who don’t like the game aren’t going to say they like it just to like it. And if they’re willing to do so what is the problem.

Let’s pretend a friend of mine doesn’t like the game, but I ask him to like it for me (which I haven’t). Who cares? What’s the big deal? Who is negatively affected by this? The people who care about what he likes?

This isn’t even a storm in a teacup. It’s a drizzle in a thimble.

Exotics are automatic for clearing the highest level zones, too. But many of them are so cheap on the marketplace, I’m not sure why it’s such a big deal.

I’ve gotten more exotic drops than most people here, but most of them aren’t worth much (particularly the account bound ones I get from Fractals).

goldenwing.8473:

Simply put:

There are 3 ways companies approach Facebook.

1) Have a “presence” and the “likes” are initiated by customers.

2) Troll for “likes” by rewarding them or otherwise artificially increasing them.

3) Falsify what a customer is “liking” so they can sell the site, along with the site’s “likes”.

I would have hoped ANet stayed with number one.

I’m disappointed they are with number two.

That was what I was expressing. Any assumptions otherwise are mistaken.

I’d be disappointed if any company that I supported didn’t take the opportunity to advertise where they could. This is a form of advertising, nothing more.

Why be disappointed with a company for advertising their product? They’re using limited resources to get the word out. Surely that’s what most companies do.

Devata.6589:

Jski.6180:

Devata.6589:

Vayne.8563:

Devata.6589:

Free? Lol, nothing is free and as there is no expansion on it’s way we might expect even more gem-store focus what is kinda bad for the game imho.

Wow, someone makes a funny post and you still feel the need to come into it and turn it into a crusade against the gem store. I don’t see why every thread as to contain the same complaint.

Surely this isn’t what this thread is about.

On topic: If you’ve seen pictures, you’d know Anet had quite the food supply, including a cereal bar in their offices.

And then you complain about that. Thats how it go’s. Just clarifying thats it’s not free.

It is free but we all must pay a price for flaw in our charters if you cant help your self but to buy every thing you see then that something YOU must deal with not a business.

Now that Kill joy is out of the way.. They have been asking for a

ColinJohanson.2394:

I’d force the dev team to implement the sandwichmancer profession, and then spend the rest of the money making it really imbalanced so I can win the $$$ back in PvP tournaments.

They must be starving if they can only think of food as a new class!

I don’t feel the need to buy anything from the gem-store and I will not buy anything from it (that does not mean there are not items on there I would like to have)

Problem is more that because of the gem-store focus game mechanics change (gold-driver for example) and thats bad for the game.

However I just made my statement to clarify it’s not free. If you really want to talk about this I would suggest going to this topic: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/GW2-unlikely-to-get-expansions-Interview/page/6#post2351535

Then they can here go on with the funny thread.

It’s free by definition. That is to say no individual has to pay for it. It’s like Facebook. Facebook isn’t run for no money. It’s not free to advertisers, but it’s free to use.

It’s like almost every free to play game out there. It IS free, except for your specific definition of free. Since at least one definition of free fits, it is free.

Devata.6589:

Free? Lol, nothing is free and as there is no expansion on it’s way we might expect even more gem-store focus what is kinda bad for the game imho.

Wow, someone makes a funny post and you still feel the need to come into it and turn it into a crusade against the gem store. I don’t see why every thread as to contain the same complaint.

Surely this isn’t what this thread is about.

On topic: If you’ve seen pictures, you’d know Anet had quite the food supply, including a cereal bar in their offices.

Okay this is obviously a thread I’ll have to post in yet again, because people CONTINUE to not get it. I dont’ see what’s so hard about this.

For the record, I do agree with the first point. There’s not a huge amount of Guild Wars 1 in the game. There’s a lot, but clearly not EVERYTHING you loved. Of course, anyone with a modicum of common sense would realize that different people loved different things, so they couldn’t be true, unless Mike O’Brien is a mind reader. And if everything was the same…it would be Guild Wars 1. Beyond that..\

The second point is clearly talking about how in most MMOs you have to grind to get to max level before the fun stuff begins. It’s been clarified over and over again, or was when the Manifesto came out, and people just ignore it.

You dont’ have to wait 80 levels to get to fun encounters. You get the Shadow Behemoth and the Great Wurm in starter zones as an example. It’s not a grind to GET TO the fun stuff. No one said there wouldn’t be grinding at end game. That’s what what is being said here.

Furthermore there was a clarification posted after the manifesto released about confusion as to how something could be part of a persistent world and still permanent. Colin is talking about dynamic events. Ree is talking about personal story. Both things are in the game. Editing makes it confusing but it’s pretty clear.

When you do your personal story, which Ree is talking about, no one is doing the same thing as you because it’s in an instance. That’s it.

While this can certainly be easy to misunderstand, it was clarified immediately after the manifesto released, publicly on Guild Wars 2 guru and people understood this.

To bring up something that was made two years before the game launched that’s a statement of intent, ignore the published clarifications of it, and bring it up again and again in multiple threads is beyond ludicrous.

The game direction didn’t change. You didn’t understand the manifesto (not entirely your fault, OP, it’s confusing. Hence the clarification).

goldenwing.8473:

Ridley.3691:

Am I the only one a bit perturbed by the fact ANet just seem to be bribing it’s playerbase to get it more likes on Facebook?

Perturbed? I think I’d use the word “annoyed” as in: it’s annoying that ANet would want to distort Facebook’s measurements in this way. Maybe a better word would be “sad”.

Surprised? No.

They are missing “likes” from my guild since all but one of us have not and never will use Facebook.

Happy to support ANet in many ways (and have on a weekly, on-going basis). This is not one of them.

-I’m sure they will hit their “mark”.

Ummm okay.

Facebook is all about advertising. This is a form of advertising. Rift did the same thing. I’m pretty sure I’ve seen other games do it too…I seem to remember (but can’t swear to) TSW doing something similar.

This is a form of advertising and it’s pretty much what Facebook is for. A company that’s advertising tries to get people to sign up for it’s newsletter, or did in the old days. Today they try to get people to like their Facebook page. It’s logical, simple business sense.

Distort Facebooks measurement? Really? Measurements of what?

Is this any different from Facebook games giving rewards to people for getting other people to play or friend them in that game?

I think you’re attributing some kind of purity to Facebook that simply doesn’t exist.

All companies advertise. Facebook was made for that, and centers around that. Only the naive think Facebook is “social media”. It is, and has been since day one, nothing more than a way for a company to get information about you so they can advertise to you.

I think that part of the issue here is that the steps necessary to create something like an esport, one of the goals of the game, requires the type of communication Anet is doing in their State of the Game. In other words, a group of devs responsible for PvP thinks that in order to have what they want, they need to communicate in that fashion with PvPers…and they might be right.

Instead of saying Anet is focused on PvP, the correct thought process is this: those in charge of PvP have chosen to have that type of forum.

There is a lot more to “talk about” in terms of meta game in PvP than PvE. A far larger percentage of PvP players become involved in meta-gaming than PvE players…involved meaning going out of their way to think in terms of meta.

PvE players might watch a dungeon video, or learn how to exploit a dungeon by skipping mobs, but that’s hardly the kind of meta where Anet can get involved.

This is simply how the PvP team have decided to work, not something that shows Anet favors PvP.

A treadmill is something you have to keep doing. HAVE TO.

In most games with a treadmill, you can’t enter a new raid without specific gear, which you have to keep running the old raid over and over to get. That’s a tread mill.

In Guild Wars 2 people can get achievement points for doing dailies. They can get them for doing monthlies. They can get them from WvW, SPvP, doing dungeons, mindless killing, using specific weapons.

Even if you dont’ focus on achievements you’ll get SOME achievement points.

If you don’t want to get the goggles, don’t get them. If you want to get them, some mesmer will portal you up (it happens all the time) and you can skip like 90% of the puzzle.

But it’s not a treadmill. Once you get that achievement you have it, but it’s not tied to any achievement. In other words, you don’t need that specific achievement to progress.

Zeno.8493:

Vayne.8563:

I’m sitting at around 8300. I can’t imagine how much time and energy people with 11,000 achievement points have put into this game.

Same as you but 1.3x the effort. ^^

Meaning I’ve put effort into it, I can’t imagine putting much more into it than I have. lol