Guild Wars 2

Not that we know of. The whole concept of a living story is a changing world, which means that it’s constantly in motion.

Treeline.3865:

Thalimae.3406:

Are you serious? The dailies are as easy as they can be. You can do them within an hour of just… well, doing what you described. I have no idea how you manage to not get them especially when playing several hours a day. I give you that occasionally there might be combinations of tasks that don’t work well for you. But you still should be able to get them easily most of the time.

It’s quite simple really, not everyone play the same way. For example I have no clue what I want to do that includes killing 3 veterans in Maguuma today.

Regardless of that, whether you know or not, it doesn’t even take 4 minutes to kill those veterans. There are several places you can go and literally kill 3 maguuma veterans in two minutes. Literally. It’s that easy.

So if two minutes is too much out of your way to get the daily…I’d say the problem is yours.

Erasculio.2914:

Vayne.8563:

First, since I’m reading it in the wiki instead of watching the video, I am in fact reading it. That’s your first mistake

Nope, it’s your mistake. You are reading second-hand information, while assuming that everyone is doing the same thing you are. For everyone you are telling to “learn to read”, you can be talking to someone who’s actually listening to the source instead of being happy to read someone’s interpretation of it. In fact, you are losing by reading text – you are missing tone, cadence, body language, and all other things we, who have seen the video, know more about than you. For the records, an editor should know how text is lacking in those aspects when compared to video.

Ergo, your opinion is flawed. You lack the knowledge we have because you do not know what we are talking about, you only have second hand and incomplete information.

Vayne.8563:

I’m taking the entire piece and reading it you guys are basically trying to take a sentence out of a paragraph. It doesn’t work.

It’s actually not a sentence out of a paragraph considering it’s not text…

Vayne.8563:

Now, that said, he used the words “THIS” boring grind. It’s specifying the grind to get to the fun stuff.

Yep, grind to get to the fun stuff. It’s only your rose collored glasses that make you believe he’s talking about required grind, or gear grind or level grind. “Fun stuff” means anything in the game that people enjoy, from a fun dungeon to a fun area to explore to a fun type of PvP to a fun item. Any kind of grind in the game is bad, which is fitting since then Colin says “we don’t want players to grind”, not “we don’t want required grind”.

Vayne.8563:

He finishes with the words, ’We want to change the way people view COMBAT".

Exactly. Combat is not seen as boring only when grinding for gear or for levels, it’s also seen as boring in grind for items or gold (aka farming). It’s no surprise that ArenaNet would claim they don’t want players to grind and then say thet want to change how people view combat. What doesn’t make sense is to assume that changing only level grind would change how people view combat.

But combat has nothing at all to do with gear grind. The way people are interpreting it is a lie. It’s not a lie.

Point 1. Look up manifesto. It’s a statement of intent, not a guarantee of delivery.
Point 2. The game DELIVERS fun stuff in early zones. That happens to be a matter of taste. I never had to go through boring grind to get to the fun stuff. In fact, for most people, the boring grind doesn’t really start until max level. Ergo there’s no lie there.
Point 3. When people use the word lie, they imply intent. There isn’t a person alive who can tell me 100% certain that when Colin said those words he INTENDED to mislead.

If I go and tell my kids I’m going to take them to the movies, and then I get a call and have to go into work, I didn’t lie to them. I told them the truth. The situation changed.

As long as people throw around the word lie, I’ll continue to correct them.

The MOST you could say is that Anet’s intent wasn’t realized. And even that’s a complete matter of opinion.

No one can factually say the manifesto is a lie.

Erasculio.2914:

Vayne.8563:

It’s so sad to see what happens when people try to explain to an editor how to read English. The idea of a paragraph is to group ideas together.

Of course, your entire line of reasoning is wrong. I would like to begin, though, with the irony in having to point to the mighty editor, expert on reading English, and fond of telling others to learn how to read, that what we are discussing is a video. All the times you have been saying “read” in this discussion, you are 100%, factually wrong. Your notion of a “paragraph” is also wrong – since it was not text, the idea that those lines are part of the same paragraph is your interpretation of them, not a fact.

Now, let’s see what Colin has said, right?

In most games, you go out, and you have really fun tasks, occasionally, that you get to do, and the rest of the game is this boring grind to get to the fun stuff. ‘I swung a sword. I swung a sword again. Hey! I swung it again.’ That’s great. We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one enjoys that. No one finds it fun. We want to change the way that people view combat.

Now, he defines grind as everything that is not fun in the game. In fact, if “grind” were defined as “doing repetitive tasks over and over to reach the level cap”, Colin would not have needed to say “boring grind to get to the fun stuff” – otherwise it would be implied, by the use of the word “grind”, that it was in reference to reaching the fun stuff. Do notice how he has not said the word “required” anywhere, for the records.

So what does Colin mean? That they don’t want players to do repetitive, annoying tasks like grinding, farming, etc. Not that they don’t want required grind – nowhere in there Colin mentions the word “required”. Not that they don’t want people to level grind or gear grind – nowhere there does Colin use the words “level” or “gear”.

The irony here is to see ArenaNet fans trying to twist his words, when they were in fact one of the most admirable things in the entire Manifesto. I believe this is the perfect example of how people wearing rose colored glasses are bad for a game – even someone who really likes Guild Wars 2 should be able to realize how they have strayed from the original views expressed in the Manifesto, and ask ArenaNet to go back to it. I wouldn’t be surprised if the company had to change due to internal conflicts about those ideas, and players asking the game to move in the direction of the Manifesto would actually help ArenaNet, not hinder them.

In other words, it’s sad that some people are against any kind of criticism, even constructive criticism, to the point of twisting so completely something we all have heard.

First, since I’m reading it in the wiki instead of watching the video, I am in fact reading it. That’s your first mistake. I am on the forum reading what someone quoted. Everyone in this conversation is in fact reading it, not listening to it. Thanks for weighing on that.

Now, that said, he used the words “THIS” boring grind. It’s specifying the grind to get to the fun stuff.

He finishes with the words, ’We want to change the way people view COMBAT".

Really, you’re just trying to twist things into your definition. That’s all you’re trying to do.

I’m taking the entire piece and reading it you guys are basically trying to take a sentence out of a paragraph. It doesn’t work.

Rhinala.1739:

Vayne.8563:

But you can kill 50 ascalonians anywhere and in passing. You’re not killing to level. It takes precisely 4 minutes to kill 50 ascalonians.

If you want to call 4 minutes a grind, be my guest.

So according to your statement grind is time based? this daily still urge you to kill 50 ascelonian in order to clear this “achievement”, what is the difference between this and kill 10 rats in any other game? killing 10 rats take roughly 2 min but it still consider as grind. By the way as a lower level those killings will give me xp and help me level.

Grind is something you do over and over and over again, usually for a long period of time. It’s a “long” grind, not a “short” grind.

Grind is something that you do repeatedly over and over. In the original sense it was used for leveling. You’d have to kill hundreds if not thousands of mobs to get to the next level. Not 50 that you could kill in literally 4 minutes.

I’m pretty sure that killing stuff for 4 minutes doesn’t constitute a grind. Let’s stop redefining words, please.

I disagree that you should be able to do ALL the dailies by playing the way you want.

Suppose I’m an RPer and I don’t like to kill anything. That’s how I like to play. Should I get a laurel for staying in character?

Games have achievements for different things. If you don’t like dungeons, you don’t do a dungeon master…because that achievement is all about dungeons.

The dailies are easy enough. You can play the game any way you want. You don’t get to pick your rewards for playing that way.

I mean some people just like to stand around and chat in LA. Should they get the daily chatter?

Rhinala.1739:

@Vayne.8563: what truly baffles me is that you broke the sentence:

In most games, you go out, and you have really fun tasks, occasionally, that you get to do, and the rest of the game is this boring grind to get to the fun stuff. ‘

and only used half of it in order to show that their meaning is grind to unlock areas. while the second part

I swung a sword. I swung a sword again. Hey! I swung it again.’ That’s great.
We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one enjoys that. No one finds it fun. We want to change the way that people view combat.”

clearly show that Anet is referring grind as a mindlessly killing the same enemies over and over again. something introduced by the latest dailies (kill 50 ascelonians, kill 25 underwater).
I prefer a gear gating that would take me to harder and harder areas, one that getting the new gear would take the small effort of running other dungeons or buying (took me few days to reach end game gear in other game) then mindlessly killing enemies as time gating.

you can use my grammar as a way to show that i truly don’t understand as a wonderful spin.

But you can kill 50 ascalonians anywhere and in passing. You’re not killing to level. It takes precisely 4 minutes to kill 50 ascalonians.

If you want to call 4 minutes a grind, be my guest.

pricer.5091:

No. I’m saying it was your opinion that it was defined in the piece. Nowhere in the piece does it state,“here is my definition of grind, anything I say beyond this point must be taken in the same way”. And in fact, even if you take it the way that Colin allegedly meant it, he’s still wrong…because the combat is spectacularly “hit-one-button”.

No, it’s not my opinion. This is the line that defines it. It’s defined by context. It’s clear as a bell.

“In most games, you go out, and you have really fun tasks, occasionally, that you get to do, and the rest of the game is this boring grind to get to the fun stuff.”

This is the grind he’s talking about. He’s literally telling you that this is the grind. The stuff you have to do to get to the fun stuff. It’s crystal clear. It’s not my opinion.

People want to take the second sentence that mentions grind and changed how he used it the first time, a couple of lines earlier.

There’s no opinion here. It’s a fact that it’s defined by context.

pricer.5091:

Vayne.8563:

pricer.5091:

Vayne.8563:

Actually I’m not making ANY assumptions. When a word like grind is used in a piece and is defined by the context of the piece, that becomes the definition of the word in the piece. It really is that simple.

Really? Here is a piece in which I use the word grind with different meanings:

So, I take the fifth exit, just like every other night, when the car suddenly stops. Just grinds to a halt you know? Its raining, so hard that the wipers barely let me see through the deluge. I see blurred neon over on the other side of the street, got to be a strip club, nothing else it could be in this part of town. Perhaps they’ll have a phone? I button my coat up tight around my neck and get out of the car. Man, what a grind.

I enter the club and ask to use the phone. I am told, bluntly, there are no phones for customers and do I want a drink or do I want to get lost? I order a whisky. Five minutes later, a cute blonde is sitting on my lap, I feel her grind against me……

Got bored, it was so generic. But etc etc …..

You really need to learn to read. As I’ve already stated, once a word is defined in a specific document, ANY document, it takes on that meaning in that document. Basic, basic English.

Particularly a word like grind. Colin defined the word how HE was using it and then went on to say AFTER that that “we don’t want people to grind in Guild Wars 2”.

If he had a different definition why would he have defined it in the first place? Why would he change the definition.

It is COMPELTELY, 100% IRRELEVANT as to what it might or might not mean, once someone has taken the time to define it in a specific piece.

You can agree or disagree with the definition but you have to apply the definition that was given. If you don’t, you’re still taking the words out of context.

You are stating your opinion as fact. Go to the back of the class.

This isn’t an opinion. It’s a fact that the term was defined. 100% fact. Are you saying it’s an opinion it was defined in the piece?

pricer.5091:

Vayne.8563:

Actually I’m not making ANY assumptions. When a word like grind is used in a piece and is defined by the context of the piece, that becomes the definition of the word in the piece. It really is that simple.

Really? Here is a piece in which I use the word grind with different meanings:

So, I take the fifth exit, just like every other night, when the car suddenly stops. Just grinds to a halt you know? Its raining, so hard that the wipers barely let me see through the deluge. I see blurred neon over on the other side of the street, got to be a strip club, nothing else it could be in this part of town. Perhaps they’ll have a phone? I button my coat up tight around my neck and get out of the car. Man, what a grind.

I enter the club and ask to use the phone. I am told, bluntly, there are no phones for customers and do I want a drink or do I want to get lost? I order a whisky. Five minutes later, a cute blonde is sitting on my lap, I feel her grind against me……

Got bored, it was so generic. But etc etc …..

As I’ve already stated, once a word is defined in a specific document, ANY document, it takes on that meaning in that document. Basic, basic English.

Particularly a word like grind. Colin defined the word how HE was using it and then went on to say AFTER that that “we don’t want people to grind in Guild Wars 2”.

If he had a different definition why would he have defined it in the first place? Why would he change the definition.

It is COMPELTELY, 100% IRRELEVANT as to what it might or might not mean, once someone has taken the time to define it in a specific piece.

You can agree or disagree with the definition but you have to apply the definition that was given. If you don’t, you’re still taking the words out of context.

CoRtex.2157:

Vayne.8563:

How is the lore wiped?

Speed clears were not only among my least favorite parts of Guild Wars 1, but they were the one part of Guild Wars 1 that I really really hated. And if they’re gone, what the hell is CoF point 1 or any of the ultra fast dungeon runs? I hate them here too.

They lost a percentage of the Guild Wars 1 players, particularly PvP players. I agree with that. But there seem to be a whole lot of people running around the game with God Walking Among Mere Mortals title. Where are they coming from?

How is the lore wiped? well, they made a cheesy story that the world basicly got reset by a flood. BOOOM. Old world gone, lore = vanished. Elona & Cantha doesn’t seem to exist. Suddenly the Tengu & Stone summit don’t seem to exist. U know these core tyria monsters. They just wrote a lore that explains why everything is gone. Also, you aren’t seeing things from a human aspect anymore, suddenly u can be a charr. It feels so stupid if you are a charr and those humans & other races aren’t even enemies of u. I know why they aren’t, but it doesn’t feel verry charr like if you play them.

About speedclears, the towns where u started speedclears were the places where the most players were. (beside kamadan/kaineng/lionsarch). Speedclears were verry popular back then. kitten i miss UW & FoW

The lore isn’t gone…it’s changed and you don’t like the change. There’s plenty of lore. I read the novels, I think they’re pretty good (not great literature, but good for a guy who likes lore).

But you’re also confusing lore and story. Story is not lore and lore is not story (though they can interesect). Lore is more akin to backstory and there’s plenty of it here.

You might not like the story, but there’s plenty of lore.

xiv.7136:

Project Titan was scrapped.

A month ago, they downsized the team on it and decided to start back on square one with the concept.

Really? I hadn’t heard this.

I second this one.

Today we were in WvW and we had six people. Five in one party. I left that party so someone else could join, and just followed behind.

I’d have liked to have targetted the leader of the other party so I could follow them more easily but you can’t target someone if you’re not in a party. I don’t understand why.

CoRtex.2157:

Because:
- The game isn’t challanging & so not fun for every non-casual gamer. Because for a real gamer, challange = fun.
- RNG & Gold sinks
- Terrible lore. Only risen enemies. No charr enemies, infected or mursaat. GW1 lore is completely wiped.
…

It comes down to this:
Arenanet screwed the old gw1 players by saying that everything awesome about gw1 was going to be in gw2. Lore = wiped, skillsystem = gone, speedclears = gone, skillbased team game = gone. And much much more…
You can deny it all you want, but that’s how it is, and this made sure they lost the core fanbase of GW. U know, the core GW1 players, the people that made it possible for GW2 to exist… Anet is a joke.

How is the lore wiped?

Speed clears were not only among my least favorite parts of Guild Wars 1, but they were the one part of Guild Wars 1 that I really really hated. And if they’re gone, what the hell is CoF point 1 or any of the ultra fast dungeon runs? I hate them here too.

They lost a percentage of the Guild Wars 1 players, particularly PvP players. I agree with that. But there seem to be a whole lot of people running around the game with God Walking Among Mere Mortals title. Where are they coming from?

Zerbo.5381:

Again, you are making assumptions. There is no official “definition” of grind at all. I think most people would agree that the definition of the word “grind” is more complex than simply “I swung a sword. I swung a sword again”, or are you referring to the sentence before? If that’s the case, why would you use the word “grind” in a sentence to describe itself? You also haven’t replied to how other people may interpret “fun stuff”.

You’re still stuck on the idea that this is a written document, when it is most likely (and sounds like if listened to) a collection of sound bites being pieced together, with, IMO, the intent to convince it’s viewers in general that Anet doesn’t want its “players to grind” because they realize that “no one enjoys that” and “no one finds it fun”. If you limit this to include only the leveling experience, that’s your interpretation. I and many others have further interpretations however.

I’ve gotten my opinion across, so I’ll leave it at that. Do what you want with it. Honestly, the manifesto doesn’t matter much to me anyway. I care much more about the state of the game now and the direction it has been going. I’m not very happy about what I see for many of the reasons people have pointed out here. I do have hope though.

Actually I’m not making ANY assumptions. When a word like grind is used in a piece and is defined by the context of the piece, that becomes the definition of the word in the piece. It really is that simple.

If I write a paper (and I’ve published many), it doesn’t matter what the dictionary definition of a word is, as long as I’ve defined the word in the piece by usage, which is what was done here.

You’re arguing to try to prove that a sentence taken alone is more important than a sentence taken in context. The first usage of the word defines how Colin is using it.

Why would ANYONE assume that the second usage a line or two later has changed definition?

The onus would be on you to prove that word has changed definition and given the words here, you simply can’t do it.

Gizmo.9178:

I am pretty much the same way but much slower lol. It takes me forever to finish anything because I am easily distracted and will start doing something else in the game if something catches my attention lol. For me, this game is full of content I will never finish because my playstyle is soooo slow.

I’m the same way, actually. The only reason I’m as far as I am is because of the amount of time I have to play.

Tamaki Revolution.3548:

My second 80 was an Eng, but I quit playing him once I got to Orr and noticed that my turret build was completely useless :P Yeah, there’s other good/better Eng builds, but turrets were a lot of fun from 10-70.

Agreed, I had to adapt from a turret build to something more efficient for Orr…but that’s always been the nature of Guild Wars.

When I played Guild Wars 1, I could get away with almost anything in normal mode. It was hard mode that tested you and very often you would have to make modifications (sometimes serious modifications) to your build.

Zerbo.5381:

well, my topic wasnt finished- got mixed up with the tabs and accidentally sent rather than add another paragraph, which is why I deleted right away, but apparently you pressed refresh faster than I the delete button.

assume it reads like this:
“When you look at the art in our game, you say ‘Wow, that’s visually stunning. I’ve never seen anything like that before,’ and then when you play the combat in our game, you say ‘Wow, that’s incredible. I’ve never seen anything like that.’
In most games, you go out, and you have really fun tasks, occasionally, that you get to do, and the rest of the game is this boring grind to get to the fun stuff. ‘I swung a sword. I swung a sword again. Hey! I swung it again.’ That’s great.
We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one enjoys that. No one finds it fun. We want to change the way that people view combat.”

Also, you don’t know me, nor what I do. Perhaps I’m also a “professional editor”. I hardly see how that validates your arguments any more.

It’s the use of the word grind earlier in the piece, defining the word grind used later in the piece. When you define a word in a document, even if NOT in the same paragraph (and I feel it is anyway), you’ve defined the word. Colin defined the word, then reused the word a line or two later.

There are only two sentences between the two uses of the word grind. It’s illogical to assume that it would suddenly change definition.

Arimahn.3568:

I quit because my first, and main, character is an engineer.

Need I say more?

That’s interesting. My first character, the first character I leveled to 80 was also an engineer. I still do quite well with him.

I like him a whole lot more than I like my 80th level warrior.

Sebulon.7683:

It is a really hard rush. But I like challenge.

The wurm part can be skipped. Take the checkpoint on the entrance to the wurm section, back off a little, and start climbing the cliff on your left. From there you can drop on the hole and practiclly skip the whole part.

If there’s an event at the driftglass encampment, then it becomes really frustrating. People start rage quitting when they die right next to the goal. All I can say is dodge the small karkas and when the large ones start firing at you use the block. Then hope to god that you can run the to goal without another small karka bombing you.

Thanks for this…I’ll pass this on to the guild.

Zerbo.5381:

Vayne.8563:

Erasculio.2914:

Case in point, someone hearing Colin saying “We don’t want players to grind” and making up all kinds of excuses as to why no, it doesn’t mean that ArenaNet does not want players to grind. Denial must be a great thing.

It’s so sad to see what happens when people try to explain to an editor how to read English. The idea of a paragraph is to group ideas together. Taking one sentence out of a paragraph and trying to extract meaning from it is called taking a sentence out of context. The rest of the paragraph gives that sentence it’s actual meaning.

Can you show me where in that paragraph it talks about gear grind? How in the name of the seven hells can anyone honestly say that that sentence was about gear grind, when the entire rest of the paragraph COMPLETELY AND LOGICALLY explains what Colin is talking about. Here’s the set up quote that talks about grind…

“In most games, you go out, and you have really fun tasks, occasionally, that you get to do, and the rest of the game is this boring grind to get to the fun stuff.”

What is this topic about? Tasks to do. He’s talking about in other games having to level up to 80 to start playing the game. What he’s NOT talking about is grinding for gear.

In MMO paralance, grind originally referred to killing enemies over and over again to level. Grindy games were korean grinders that you had to kill stuff over and over again to get to the next level. Farming is not grinding.

But it doesn’t matter. You can take one sentence out of a paragraph and try to say it means something it doesn’t. The rest of the paragraph disagrees with you.

One sentence does not a paragraph make.

You go to great stretches to argue your points, and in my opinion often overstretch in the process. I think that there are different ways to interpret “this paragraph”, and you have provided one interpretation. You seem to not accept that others may have other valid interpretations, and just simply brush them off, even going as far as to criticize their reading comprehension.

For example, perhaps due to being more challenging, Fractals 30 is “the fun stuff” for me. In order to be appropriately geared to do this level of the fractals, I will need to grind for my gear and level in order to get there. You may not agree with that interpretation, but you must admit that it is a possible one, just as yours is. Perhaps for others, outfitting their character with various new shiny skins is also “the fun stuff”.

Another thing I’d like to point out is that you assume these bits and pieces of talking points all were originally intended to come together in a paragraph, but you can only assume this. How do we not know that this dialogue actually reads like this?:

“When you look at the art in our game, you say ‘Wow, that’s visually stunning. I’ve never seen anything like that before,’ and then when you play the combat in our game, you say ‘Wow, that’s incredible. I’ve never seen anything like that.’
In most games, you go out, and you have really fun tasks, occasionally, that you get to do, and the rest of the game is this boring grind to get to the fun stuff. ‘I swung a sword. I swung a sword again. Hey! I swung it again.’ That’s great. We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one enjoys that. No one finds it fun. We want to change the way that people view combat.”

Sighs. I edit for a living. If you’re going to argue English with me, you’re going to lose. Really.

The term grind is mentioned in what you have to consider the same paragraph. The bit about art would arguably be a different paragraph, but the grind, same paragraph for sure. Even you put it there.

So, they’re defining grind EARLY in the paragraph, so use of the word grind later in the paragraph remains as defined. Simple, clear, English. No one who speaks English well would bother to deny it. If you don’t want to see it, it can only be because you have an agenda.

Likewise the closing of the paragraph (all said in one breath) denies that this is about gear grind.

Anyone who knows the language should agree that taking a single sentence from the middle of a paragraph can change the definition of a sentence. I’m not sure how anyone can deny the interpretation I put on this without being either completely disingenuous, or not even bothering to listen to/look at the facts.

Genophix.3098:

I got so many things wrong when approaching Guild Wars 2, lots of people did. We thought it was a game thakittens not. It’s painfully casual and as we have been aware of now many players yearn for end game raids (and indirectly a good amount of high end gear to a) show off b) increase your toons strength c) feel like your still playing for a goal).

I’m one of this games biggest fans, I play every day and still love roaming around looking at the beautiful game world, but I know I’m in a minority. Since beta lots of players have seen so much more potential in this game and understandably get frustrated. It’s like having a brand new Aston Martin but not being able to take it off the drive.

So many threads, asking for mounts, player housing, raids, harder content, better bosses, high tier gear etc etc. I can’t get mad at this people, they are just seeing a game that has such an amazing framework, if only it had some more of the things we all love from other MMOs.

Wildstar seems to have cottoned onto this, they are giving players what they want in buckets. I’m really looking forward to this game but I also know that I will still be playing GW2, why? Well not for the raiding I know that much.

I’m still hoping AN start to give us less ‘theme park content’ (although its all beautifully designed and realised) I also want some meat on my sandwich. I want new skills, new gear, new game mechanics that challenge and push my skills. I guess I want an expansion but I also want AN to give in and give us some of the things we want, I’ve heard somewhere that the customer is always right…

I’m betting Wildstar with have a MUCH smaller affect on the Guild Wars 2 population than most people think. Why? Because they think that most people are hard core, while I believe most people are more casual.

I guess we’ll see soon enough.

One of the biggest problems is the scaling of events. With all the people in the area, events that are usually doable because much harder. Remember you have to split your guild into those who transform and those who don’t. But I believe those who transform count toward the scaling. That means events scale twice as much as they should for the number of people doing them.

Take for example the worm event, where you have to gather golem parts. The worms are invulernable, you just have to run in and hope to avoid them while grabbing golem parts. But there are far more worms than there should be and you need to gather far more golem parts to finish it.

Without finishing this event, it’s virtually impossible to get from the first half of the route to the second half, because you have to go through a tiny hole in that area where the event spawns.

DigitalKirin.9714:

I long ago used to be a forum posting frequenter.

The mood rarely strikes me now to debate with people. I just play online with my guild and enjoy myself.

I hear you. I have a great time with my guild too. But eventually the guild goes to bed and I’m still awake, so I come here for some forum PvP. lol

zenleto.6179:

DigitalKirin.9714:

I long ago used to be a forum posting frequenter.

The mood rarely strikes me now to debate with people. I just play online with my guild and enjoy myself.

I’m getting to this stage with the forums. Very little substance, same old stuff going round and round.

I don’t play Forum Wars like you, Vayne

It’s a dirty job…but someone has to do it. lol

Nick.6972:

Skin not armor.
Obsidian armor was arguably more easily obtainable than legendary in this game.
I recall doing UWscs for whole 2 weeks (2h daily) to get 400k to buy that big mini kraken thing.

Yep, skin, not armor. However, the hardest armor to get in this game is actually the exotics from dungeons. You’re talking about trinkets which is not armor. They’re trinkets.

There is no armor in this game that’s harder to get than Obsidian armor at the ten month mark.

I think this game could do with some harder content. By the same token, I don’t believe that everyone who PvE’s or even most people who PvE are looking for harder content.

There are a lot of people who PvE who think the existing content is too hard. I know it’s hard to believe, but I’ve seen the posts myself.

The reason I started the topic is because I just got a PM from someone who thanked me for posting the stuff I do. Someone who doesn’t post on the forums apparently. It’s not the first time.

So I realize there are people out there who must share my play style. But we’re not necessarily the most vocal part of the player base.

Whenever I bring up my play style in other threads I’m told alternately that not everyone plays like me, most people don’t play like me or no one plays like me, so I thought I’d test the waters just to see.

Nick.6972:

Armor meant nothing? What?
Did your Warrior ever wear level 7 armor doing HM missions or PvP?
As far as I remember the ony 2 builds that used low level armor were 600HP and 55HP.

“Quite easily” I fail to see how 4 hours is on pair with 20+ hours (without crafting).

Armor meant nothing meaning most people didn’t get max armor and think, okay that’s it for me, I’m done. Because progression in Guild Wars 1 was based on having the elite armor sets.

Sure they didn’t give you any bonus above the max, but that didn’t mean that the game didn’t encourage people to go for them. There were sets like Obsidian armor and later Vabbian armor that were grindy as hell to get….and people wanted them.

That’s what I meant by betting max armor didn’t mean anything.

GSSBlunaspike.4153:

Link.1589:

In GW1 the only endgame stuff was a flashy weapon and that’s about it, yet GW1 went on strong for ages, so I wouldn’t be all that worried about GW2.

Please don’t compare GW1 to GW2. I like GW2, but it will never be what GW1 was to me.

While GW2 may not be dead, you can’t deny how empty most of the zones are. OP I hope you didn’t create an account on BP.

I really don’t think comparing Guild Wars 1 to Guild Wars 2 is fair….to Guild Wars 1.

Guild Wars 2 has far more sales in the same amount of time than Guild Wars 1 ever had. It’s got more content, a much bigger world that Guild Wars 1 at launch and on top of that, it’s more main stream. Guild Wars 1 was always a niche game. And it was a lobby game…a CoRPG, not an MMO.

Yes, I agree, it’s completely unfair to compare Guild Wars 1 to Guild Wars 2.

Nick.6972:

Vayne.8563:

Nick.6972:

How come GW1 was less grindy than GW2 and I played it x10 times more for 5 years.
I guess the game wasn’t meant for me, too bad I was too naive and trusted their lies – “Manifesto”.

I mean, in GW1, you could easily get max level and armor and weapons in under than 4 hours.

This post has more lies in it than the manifesto does. lol

What exactly?
Cantha, new character-> Rush through the first missions (first island) 2-max 3 hours, rush to EOTN, Go to Brawling Dungeons (Or whatever was it called) buy best XP scrolls, repeat the dungeon few times, and level 20.
As for the armor – you could easily get level 20 armor with a level 2 in Nightfall.

Your first lie was that you said the manifesto had lies in it. Which is more lies than the manifesto had. lol

At any rate, max armor in Guild Wars 1 meant NOTHING. Zero. What people wanted was cosmetic advancement.

But you know, you can still max level armor and weapons in Guild Wars 2 quite easily. You’re talking about ascended gear, but there are no armor and weapons out yet that are ascended. Furthermore, there were no trinkets in Guild Wars 1, ergo, you can’t directly compare.

I’m pretty sure that a place like Orr wasn’t really meant to be soloed. In a group of even two or three people, not everyone needs stun breakers. Orr is perfect to duo.

Not every area in the game has to be made for solo players.

Assyrian.4827:

so you still think GW2 will have an expansion.
what I’m seeing is that Ncsoft trying to get as much cash from GW2 while there is still players playing.
now I don’t know for fact that the game is dying but like many others with big guilds that have 1 or 2 ppl still playing.
I think we will not see an expansion.
here is why:
GW2 sold 3 million copies.
most of that came from GW1fans (pvp game with some pve) which they lost them.
the game has core problems support/control/ condition damage…………………………..
no character progression no end game made a lot of ppl leave and will most likely not buy an expansion based on what they got .
now how many of the 3 million will still buy an expansion ?
I say the will be lucky to get 1 million.

I’d almost agree with you, but for one thing. A lot of people who never played MMOs before, and aren’t into PvP came to GW2 later. Because the game is pretty casual, it has a lot of casual players. There are tons of older people who like used to raid when they were kids and don’t have time now. They want a more relaxing less challenging game.

There’s no one or two people like this, there are tons of us out here. And other MMOs don’t really cut it for us, because if you miss a month or two, you’re playing catch up forever. I won’t be locked out of content if I miss a month or two of Guild Wars 2.

This game is the last bastion for the casual MMOer. Most of the other games have already failed us.

Sharpoon.8197:

To be honest, every server that is “Very High” should do. There’s no server that is most active but many servers that are very active. Blackgate, Jade Quarry, Sanctum of Rall, Dragonbrand and Fort Aspenwood are most likely just as active as TC.

I’ll tell you why TC is probably more active than most servers….at least in the open world. Because it’s the unofficial RP server, and because RPers tend to have TONS of alts, and because they tend to level them in the open world, there’s a lot of traffic in the open world. Even a lot of the middle level zones have people in them (something you don’t see on many servers).

As an example, I have over 15 characters (I think I’m up to 18) but only 6 of them are max level. I have a lot of open world playing left to go. And I’m not alone. Many people in my guild have lots of characters they’re leveling in the open world.

I wish people would learn to read. I really do. Because I’m tired of typing this.

The purpose of a paragraph is to keep ideas together. You can’t take one sentence out of a paragraph to prove a point without being accused of taking words out of context. This is what politicians and lawyers do. Taking something out of context…ignoring the original references to the content is a way of making something sound very much like something it’s not. Let’s take a look at something else from the same paragraph.

“In most games, you go out, and you have really fun tasks, occasionally, that you get to do, and the rest of the game is this boring grind to get to the fun stuff.”

Of course the last line of the same paragraph is: “We want to change the way people view combat.”

This paragraph isn’t about gear grind or item grind. It’s about grinding for levels, the original definition of grinding in MMO parlance. In many asian grinders, you grind for levels by killing mobs. And you have to level to get to the good/fun stuff…ie raiding.

All Colin was saying was that there’d be fun stuff to do pretty much right away, as opposed to having to grind to get to the fun stuff. Such as having big events like the Shadow Behemoth right in Queensdale, a starting area.

I should also point out, not only does the paragraph reflect this, but also it was confirmed several times by staff members after the fact.

People need to stop taking stuff out of context.

Erasculio.2914:

Case in point, someone hearing Colin saying “We don’t want players to grind” and making up all kinds of excuses as to why no, it doesn’t mean that ArenaNet does not want players to grind. Denial must be a great thing.

It’s so sad to see what happens when people try to explain to an editor how to read English. The idea of a paragraph is to group ideas together. Taking one sentence out of a paragraph and trying to extract meaning from it is called taking a sentence out of context. The rest of the paragraph gives that sentence it’s actual meaning.

Can you show me where in that paragraph it talks about gear grind? How in the name of the seven hells can anyone honestly say that that sentence was about gear grind, when the entire rest of the paragraph COMPLETELY AND LOGICALLY explains what Colin is talking about. Here’s the set up quote that talks about grind…

“In most games, you go out, and you have really fun tasks, occasionally, that you get to do, and the rest of the game is this boring grind to get to the fun stuff.”

What is this topic about? Tasks to do. He’s talking about in other games having to level up to 80 to start playing the game. What he’s NOT talking about is grinding for gear.

In MMO paralance, grind originally referred to killing enemies over and over again to level. Grindy games were korean grinders that you had to kill stuff over and over again to get to the next level. Farming is not grinding.

But it doesn’t matter. You can take one sentence out of a paragraph and try to say it means something it doesn’t. The rest of the paragraph disagrees with you.

One sentence does not a paragraph make.

Nick.6972:

How come GW1 was less grindy than GW2 and I played it x10 times more for 5 years.
I guess the game wasn’t meant for me, too bad I was too naive and trusted their lies – “Manifesto”.

I mean, in GW1, you could easily get max level and armor and weapons in under than 4 hours.

This post has more lies in it than the manifesto does. lol

IndigoSundown.5419:

pricer.5091:

IndigoSundown.5419

Actually, they built a game in which the endgame consisted of going anywhere in the world you wanted and doing whatever you wanted, from exploring to DE’s to meta-events to WvW to PvP.

With no tangible reward for doing so.

Players brainwashed by WoW into thinking that endgame = shinies complained there was no endgame. So, they gave them what they asked for.

No they didn’t. Doing DE’s and meta events doesnt get you “shinies”. It gets you a bunch of salvage and vendor junk.

If, for example, you got an ascended trinket for completing 1000 DE’s or maybe 100 World events..that would be at least something to do it for. Now, you are just doing it for the fun of standing ina group of 100 people and bashing a dragons kneecap for 3 minutes.

Funny, I feel rewarded doing things. I also get stuff that converts into enough gold for my purposes and then some. The shinies I was referring to are the Ascended items. Those and rare skins are the only thing in the game that qualify for the term “carrot.”

I feel rewarded for doing things too…but I’m not looking for “big” rewards. I get what I need to play and enjoy the game. That’s all I ever really require.

I think people are used to bigger stats on items that drop and maybe also better skins. There are some better skins but they all required either farming or taking your time.

Fernling.1729:

Vayne.8563:

SpyderArachnid.5619:

Vayne.8563:

I don’t understand how peoiple have to “go for dailies”. You mean you don’t gather as you’re running by stuff anyway? You mean you don’t end up killing 50 things while just running around? You mean to tell me crafting something or visiting a laurel vendor taks you so far out of your game.

I call BS. These things mostly happen naturally. Maybe at the end of my play session I have to finish one in a couple of minutes, but usually I finish the daily without even thinking about it.

And no I don’t think you’re playing wrong. I think you’re exhausted all the content. It’s like any game when you’ve exhausted the content. You get bored. How many hours have you played OP?

Not everyone plays the same as you though.

Why assume everyone is running around areas randomly, doing dailies along the way? Everyone’s play style is different. Not everyone is constantly running around zones randomly to do their dailies as they come about. And not everyone can play for hours straight, just picking up their dailies as they go.

Some people are only running dungeons. They have to go out of their way to do dailies. Or those in WvW or SPvP. They have to do the same thing. Or how about those that only have a couple hours to play a day? They have to go out of their way to get it done before they log off.

For those that want the best gear in the game, they have to do the dailies every day to get it. And most the time for those people, they have to go out of their way to do it. So in order for them to progress, they have to do dailies. Which ends up being their “endgame” cause it’s the only way to get the gear.

So while you spend all your time roaming around the world randomly, taking care of your dailies at a leisurely pace, others are having to go out of their way to get them done so they can progress. We don’t all have the luxury of time, nor do we all have the same play style.

You don’t have to play for hours straight to do most of your dailies. This is ridiculous.

One day, the guild wanted to do a dungeon. By the time I was done with one dungeon, I had three dailies. Another time we were in WvW, just running around. I got two dailies, and I hasn’t even stopped to gather. These dailies are designed so you’re bound to get a couple of them, almost no matter what you’re doing (except SPvP which has it’s own daily). Anything else you do in the game, you’re likely to get a big head start on dailies.

Today we did a guild mission and I had 2 dailies by the time I was done. It’s not playing the game the way I play. It’s playing the game at all.

Hell, if all you do is follow the meta events, you’re bound to get dailies.

If they are so easy to get that you don’t even have to try and you get them by simply playing the game, why even have them at all? Artificial content/progression?

Dailies are designed for people who don’t have a lot of time, to give them a way to get stuff like karma and ascended gear. That’s what they’re there for.

For someone that plays a couple of hours at a clip instead of every night, they can be a godsend. From the point of view of a harder core player they may seem to have no purpose.

Let’s not forget that there are plenty of people that only play a couple of hours a couple of times a week. For them two dailies during a week is 14,000 karma and a couple of laurels.

Arkham Creed.7358:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Arkham Creed.7358:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Arkham Creed.7358:

pricer.5091:

The problem though, is that the boring moment starts when you log in and ends when you log out.

I am always amazed by how many people on the internet still struggle with that whole “subjective opinion” thing.

What evidence do you have that pricer thinks he stated anything but his opinion?

He made an absolute statement with no implication of it being an opinion.

This is an internet forum. People should not have to put “imo” on a post that’s obviously a subjective statement, and thus their opinion. If it’s not a statement of fact (“Berserker gear contains the +Critical Damage stat.”) then it’s an opinion (“Berserker gear is better for PvE.”).

In a perfect world I would agree with you, but at twenty eight years old I’ve seen literally millions of posts with people arguing “obvious opinions” as facts with an almost religious zeal. And in a world where intent and unspoken context do not translate into text and the odds are at best even that someone is trying to argue an opinion as a fact then you do actually have to state somewhere that you’re just expressing an opinion.

It’s a matter of how you express yourself. Saying, “this movie sucks” is obviously an opinion but it IMPLIES that the movie objectively sucks. Saying “I didn’t really like the movie”, or even “I hated the movie”. has a completely different connotation.

Most people don’t really pay attention to the subtle nuances of language. For those who do, it’s hard to tell if someone is trying to say something is objectively or subjectively bad.

Zombo.1845:

Vayne.8563:

Zombo.1845:

Here’s my 2 cents as a new (one week) GW2 player: I’m having a blast and the game sure looks pretty on my new computer! However, already I can tell that it won’t have the longevity, with me, that other games have had in the past ( 6 years in EQ1, and 5-6 in WoW).

Why? Because although it looks great and has some fun and exciting concepts, it’s too EZ-mode….an MMO for the console crowd…all flash and no real substance (as MMOs go). Instant gratification…you want to do a raid-level encounter? No problem….just head on over and join the Zerg-fest. You don’t need to join a group or even to say a word. This can be fun, at first, but I don’t know how long it will hold my interest. Getting rid of the tank/healer/dps mechanic is a double-edged sword, IMO.

Besides, I don’t think they care much if people quit since they have already made their money when you purchased the game, and I think the game design reflects this. In fact, they probably would prefer that you quit after playing a bit. It’s the kind a model that is geared more toward bringing in new players (game sales), instead of keeping current players. Perhaps a subscription-based model would have been better. /duck

As I said, I have only been playing a week, and my opinion may change.

ps: Although I think the graphics are amazingly beautiful, personally, I wish they hadn’t gone the WoW route…with it’s bright, cartoony, pastel color palette/art style. I feel, at times, like I’m playing WoW2, graphically speaking. Not that there’s anything wrong with that! But, after coming off such a long stint in WoW, I would love to play an MMO that goes for a more photo-realistic look (instead of the ‘moving painting’ look). Just sayin’

I disagree with them not caring if you leave the game or not. They want people in the game because there aren’t enough people buying new MMOs compared to those who buy at launch. It’s not a model that can be infinitely sustained on new boxed sales. It’s sustained on the cash shop. It’s the only way the game can move forward. Anet said even from the beginning the cash shop was an important part of the business model.

It’s not geared toward people that consume content mega quickly and probably not geared toward those who want a raid-like challenge. But we know from years of the industry that most people aren’t raiders and most people don’t really want challenge. Not the kind of challenge you’re talking about.

I mean we see threads on these forums about how hard the dungeons are…and for many they’re too hard. And for many they’re too easy. And then there are people like me, who find most of them a pretty decent challenge and a couple more challenging.

So if they don’t capture that top 15% of people who are hard core and the bottom 15% of those for whom the game is too hard that still leaves 70% of the players…who find it about right.

And again, they’re capturing a lot of people who don’t have time for other MMOs. The MMO crowd is growing up and not everyone can commit to hours and hours every week. These are the people the game caters to best.

I’ve already done most of the content in the game and I still enjoy it, but then, I’m not looking to be super challenged all the time either.

All good points, and I forgot about the cash shop ( as I said, I’m new, and I’m not used to games with cash shops).

Even most games with a monthly fee have a cash shop now. It’s part of the landscape and not going away any time soon.

SpyderArachnid.5619:

Vayne.8563:

Zepidel.5349:

@ Marcus / Vayne / Grounder

What I’m saying is that the endgame IS dailies not that I feel forced to do them. The best gear in the game is obtainable ONLY through dailies.

Theres just no rewarding challenging content in this game.

There is a single JUST ONE boss in the game that requires having a team with a IQ higher than 20 to kill (lupi) other than that you can clear all PvE content with your eyes closed. WvWvW is a mockery of what real RvR should be (DAoC). SPvP can be fun, but there is no reward system or tournament / season brackets etc… theres no incentive to put together a great 5 man of friends and see how far you can go. Most every time I played in or started a SPvP premade it was us wiping the floor with disorganized pugs (not exactly fun esp if you on the other end which I have been plenty).

Using again a game as an example that many of us myself included loathe, WoW has heroic raid content (weres our hardcore dungeon difficulties with rewards pertaining too?) Arena Seasons (we have playing the same map all week for chests containing gear skins that we already have in 100x duplicate by 2 days of playing).

Maybe this game isn’t for me, but its the best MMO out there right now so I’ll stay here and kitten and moan until something better does come out, maybe something will come of it…most likely not.

The end game isn’t the dailies. The end game is different for each person.

For some people, the end game is getting a legendary. That’s their focus. For some it’s getting the dungeon master title (which isnt’ all that easy for everyone, trust me on that. I only just finished mine). For some it’s getting a fractal skin, which is grinding the fractals. For some it’s WvW (and you can’t say it’s not). For some it’s even SPvP. We’ve just seen the establishment of the first Guild Wars 2 PvP league. That’ll be end game for some people.

Your end game may be dailies. To me, I have tons of stuff I’m still working on.

And in fact, I don’t even HAVE an end game and many other people who like this game don’t. It’s like this total fallacy that any game has to have “end game”. This is what people look for and talk about. Skyrim still has a whole bunch of players, but it has no end game, no PvP, no raids.

This game is like that. It’s a bunch of stuff to do. Some people decide what to do and to it. It’s a playground.

You’re looking for the game to lead you around by the nose and give you a goal. Some of us don’t like that at all.

So dailies are not endgame, yet they are endgame? You are kind of contradicting yourself there. Endgame is different for everyone. Again, not everyone has the same play style. You have to accept the fact that we all play the game differently.

And really? You’re comparing an MMO to Skyrim? A single player game that is completely the opposite of an MMO? No comparison sorry. Two completely different games.

I’m saying there is NO end game in the “traditional” sense of the word. It’s not a contradiction. If YOU make the dailies YOUR end game, then that’s the end game FOR YOU.

If I don’t make the dailies MY end game, it’s not the end game for me.

As opposed to say WoW or Rift where the end game IS raiding.

I’d much rather not have a game tell me what my end game is… or even have one at all.

Zepidel.5349:

@ Marcus / Vayne / Grounder

What I’m saying is that the endgame IS dailies not that I feel forced to do them. The best gear in the game is obtainable ONLY through dailies.

Theres just no rewarding challenging content in this game.

There is a single JUST ONE boss in the game that requires having a team with a IQ higher than 20 to kill (lupi) other than that you can clear all PvE content with your eyes closed. WvWvW is a mockery of what real RvR should be (DAoC). SPvP can be fun, but there is no reward system or tournament / season brackets etc… theres no incentive to put together a great 5 man of friends and see how far you can go. Most every time I played in or started a SPvP premade it was us wiping the floor with disorganized pugs (not exactly fun esp if you on the other end which I have been plenty).

Using again a game as an example that many of us myself included loathe, WoW has heroic raid content (weres our hardcore dungeon difficulties with rewards pertaining too?) Arena Seasons (we have playing the same map all week for chests containing gear skins that we already have in 100x duplicate by 2 days of playing).

Maybe this game isn’t for me, but its the best MMO out there right now so I’ll stay here and kitten and moan until something better does come out, maybe something will come of it…most likely not.

The end game isn’t the dailies. The end game is different for each person.

For some people, the end game is getting a legendary. That’s their focus. For some it’s getting the dungeon master title (which isnt’ all that easy for everyone, trust me on that. I only just finished mine). For some it’s getting a fractal skin, which is grinding the fractals. For some it’s WvW (and you can’t say it’s not). For some it’s even SPvP. We’ve just seen the establishment of the first Guild Wars 2 PvP league. That’ll be end game for some people.

Your end game may be dailies. To me, I have tons of stuff I’m still working on.

And in fact, I don’t even HAVE an end game and many other people who like this game don’t. It’s like this total fallacy that any game has to have “end game”. This is what people look for and talk about. Skyrim still has a whole bunch of players, but it has no end game, no PvP, no raids.

This game is like that. It’s a bunch of stuff to do. Some people decide what to do and to it. It’s a playground.

You’re looking for the game to lead you around by the nose and give you a goal. Some of us don’t like that at all.

SpyderArachnid.5619:

Vayne.8563:

I don’t understand how peoiple have to “go for dailies”. You mean you don’t gather as you’re running by stuff anyway? You mean you don’t end up killing 50 things while just running around? You mean to tell me crafting something or visiting a laurel vendor taks you so far out of your game.

I call BS. These things mostly happen naturally. Maybe at the end of my play session I have to finish one in a couple of minutes, but usually I finish the daily without even thinking about it.

And no I don’t think you’re playing wrong. I think you’re exhausted all the content. It’s like any game when you’ve exhausted the content. You get bored. How many hours have you played OP?

Not everyone plays the same as you though.

Why assume everyone is running around areas randomly, doing dailies along the way? Everyone’s play style is different. Not everyone is constantly running around zones randomly to do their dailies as they come about. And not everyone can play for hours straight, just picking up their dailies as they go.

Some people are only running dungeons. They have to go out of their way to do dailies. Or those in WvW or SPvP. They have to do the same thing. Or how about those that only have a couple hours to play a day? They have to go out of their way to get it done before they log off.

For those that want the best gear in the game, they have to do the dailies every day to get it. And most the time for those people, they have to go out of their way to do it. So in order for them to progress, they have to do dailies. Which ends up being their “endgame” cause it’s the only way to get the gear.

So while you spend all your time roaming around the world randomly, taking care of your dailies at a leisurely pace, others are having to go out of their way to get them done so they can progress. We don’t all have the luxury of time, nor do we all have the same play style.

You don’t have to play for hours straight to do most of your dailies. This is ridiculous.

One day, the guild wanted to do a dungeon. By the time I was done with one dungeon, I had three dailies. Another time we were in WvW, just running around. I got two dailies, and I hasn’t even stopped to gather. These dailies are designed so you’re bound to get a couple of them, almost no matter what you’re doing (except SPvP which has it’s own daily). Anything else you do in the game, you’re likely to get a big head start on dailies.

Today we did a guild mission and I had 2 dailies by the time I was done. It’s not playing the game the way I play. It’s playing the game at all.

Hell, if all you do is follow the meta events, you’re bound to get dailies.

Zombo.1845:

Here’s my 2 cents as a new (one week) GW2 player: I’m having a blast and the game sure looks pretty on my new computer! However, already I can tell that it won’t have the longevity, with me, that other games have had in the past ( 6 years in EQ1, and 5-6 in WoW).

Why? Because although it looks great and has some fun and exciting concepts, it’s too EZ-mode….an MMO for the console crowd…all flash and no real substance (as MMOs go). Instant gratification…you want to do a raid-level encounter? No problem….just head on over and join the Zerg-fest. You don’t need to join a group or even to say a word. This can be fun, at first, but I don’t know how long it will hold my interest. Getting rid of the tank/healer/dps mechanic is a double-edged sword, IMO.

Besides, I don’t think they care much if people quit since they have already made their money when you purchased the game, and I think the game design reflects this. In fact, they probably would prefer that you quit after playing a bit. It’s the kind a model that is geared more toward bringing in new players (game sales), instead of keeping current players. Perhaps a subscription-based model would have been better. /duck

As I said, I have only been playing a week, and my opinion may change.

ps: Although I think the graphics are amazingly beautiful, personally, I wish they hadn’t gone the WoW route…with it’s bright, cartoony, pastel color palette/art style. I feel, at times, like I’m playing WoW2, graphically speaking. Not that there’s anything wrong with that! But, after coming off such a long stint in WoW, I would love to play an MMO that goes for a more photo-realistic look (instead of the ‘moving painting’ look). Just sayin’

I disagree with them not caring if you leave the game or not. They want people in the game because there aren’t enough people buying new MMOs compared to those who buy at launch. It’s not a model that can be infinitely sustained on new boxed sales. It’s sustained on the cash shop. It’s the only way the game can move forward. Anet said even from the beginning the cash shop was an important part of the business model.

It’s not geared toward people that consume content mega quickly and probably not geared toward those who want a raid-like challenge. But we know from years of the industry that most people aren’t raiders and most people don’t really want challenge. Not the kind of challenge you’re talking about.

I mean we see threads on these forums about how hard the dungeons are…and for many they’re too hard. And for many they’re too easy. And then there are people like me, who find most of them a pretty decent challenge and a couple more challenging.

So if they don’t capture that top 15% of people who are hard core and the bottom 15% of those for whom the game is too hard that still leaves 70% of the players…who find it about right.

And again, they’re capturing a lot of people who don’t have time for other MMOs. The MMO crowd is growing up and not everyone can commit to hours and hours every week. These are the people the game caters to best.

I’ve already done most of the content in the game and I still enjoy it, but then, I’m not looking to be super challenged all the time either.

Since the advent of the Southsun living story, the guild rush in Southsun, already the hardest of them all, has gotten a lot harder.

We had two decent sized guilds today, working together and we couldn’t finish it because of the combination of old and new events that made it beyond hard. I’m guessing no one but one of the “mega guilds” could get 15 people through within the time limit.

I think the devs need to look at this, since it’s much harder than it was at inception.

morrolan.9608:

Vayne.8563:

I laughed pretty hard when I read this. Your inability to actually see what the manifesto said and what it means is completely underwhelming. No matter how many times you say that it doesn’t match the manifesto, it doesn’t make you right.

The examples provided by others leave out words, misintepret basic information and completely ignore the explanation that came out immediately following the manifesto in the areas where people were confused. If you don’t want to take into account the very public clarication published immediately after the manifesto came out, I would suggest that’s your problem.

Well it was misinterpreted by a lot of people then, and in exactly the same way, too many for it to be a mistake IMHO. I know how the game was sold to me prior to the BWEs, which includes not just the manifesto but their other statements around that time, and its not the game we have now. It was a clear change in philosophy from anet.

You can rationalise what they said with the benefit of hindsight all you like but at the time they marketed the game a particular way and I believed it due to their track record with GW1, and they have deviated from that for the worse. And like I said above a lot of people interpreted the marketing the same way.

You mean most people have terrible reading comprehension skills. I agree. Most people hear what they want to hear and read what they want to read. My problem is I’m a professional editor and can’t afford to do that. And as a writer I know how to research. There’s very very little that happened in this game that I wasn’t prepared for, because before launch Anet was pretty much crystal clear on how everything worked including personal story, dynamic events, etc.

And a manifesto is nothing more than a statement of intent, not an ad for what the game is or will. be. Another thing people don’t understand.

I don’t understand how peoiple have to “go for dailies”. You mean you don’t gather as you’re running by stuff anyway? You mean you don’t end up killing 50 things while just running around? You mean to tell me crafting something or visiting a laurel vendor taks you so far out of your game.

I call BS. These things mostly happen naturally. Maybe at the end of my play session I have to finish one in a couple of minutes, but usually I finish the daily without even thinking about it.

And no I don’t think you’re playing wrong. I think you’re exhausted all the content. It’s like any game when you’ve exhausted the content. You get bored. How many hours have you played OP?