Guild Wars 2

Deified.7520:

Vayne.8563:

Gasoline.2570:

Its funny too because those have been since launch and still havent been fixed.

Mail limit. Mail supression. Mobs going invulnerable for no reason. Mobs random agro mechanics that break frequently in open world. Party window not updating.

Anets going for broke on keeping annoying bugs in, hopefully we still have all of these in a year.

First of all mail limit isn’t a bug, it’s a design decision that stops people from using mail as a bank all the time.

And of course, since you don’t look at all the bugs that have been fixed and all the issues that have been approved… it’s only natural that you’d have a jaded outlook. There are literally hundreds of bugs that have been fixed. maybe even thousands. But your list of five annoying ones makes a big difference. Sighs.

I’m not saying that the other bug fixes weren’t good and that I’m not grateful for them. It is just that these seem like small bugs that should be easily fixed in coding. Then again I dont code so I’d have no idea. It just encounter them on a daily basis, much more than any other bug.

Okay here’s the problem. Bugs are on lists and lists are tackled in the order of how much they affect people generally. For example…there are probably bug lists now with several thousand bugs.

Programmers don’t get to go to these lists and decide, I think I’ll fix this one, it’s fast. And it’s a good thing, because many programming issues that SEEM fast, take forever. So if it’s a bug that’s not game breaking, it doesn’t get worked on first, even if it looks like it’ll be fast.

Do you notice when you report a bug, there’s a box that you can check off that says halts progress. That box is there to prioritize those bugs. It’s why personal story bugs and dungeon bugs often do get looked at in less time than more general bugs that don’t block progress.

What’s worse, the bug you listed, or some poor guy stuck in a personal story instance that they simply can’t do because of a bug.

There are thousands of bugs. Maybe there are ten, fifteen people working on them. Bugs are fixed all the time, in a prioritized order that is set by management. But many bugs that seem really easy to fix end up taking a ridiculously long time.

Take the bug that Anet fixed with the skelk on Southsun. Not only was it a spawn bug, but it was a spawn bug that was supposedly impossible because there were tools in place that shouldn’t have allowed that. The bug wasn’t in the spawn, the bug was in the tool, but even that shouldn’t have been allowed, because of another fail safe. It took Anet a long time to track it down because it was theoretically impossible.

Another thing that makes bug fixes hard is new content, which comes complete with its own bugs. However, due to the nature of temporary content, those bugs MUST be fixed before the event ends.

It’s just not that easy. Just about every MMO has bugs that run for years. Even WoW, the most successful MMO of all time had bugs that ran for years.

Is anyone here suggesting Guild Wars 2 has the same budget or staff size as WoW?

Aristio.2784:

Vayne.8563:

Stuff

http://community.riftgame.com/en/2012/02/03/rift-one-year-later/

-5 Raids
-1 Huge Zone of Content (Ember Isle)
-2 New dungeons
-2 Master mode dungeons
-New warfront
-Wardrobe system, which blows the water out of our Transmutation system

Rift added a whole lot of content with every patch. They fixed bugs and added quality of life adjustments with every patch.

I’m not saying GW2 doesn’t have content, nor am I saying that Rift is superior to GW2. I’m saying that Rift added a lot within their first year. All we got so far that is permanent content is:

-Southsun
-Fractals of the Mist
-Three new SPVP maps.
Edit:
I forgot two mini-games. Which are Moa Racing and Keg Brawl.

So guild missions don’t exist. The guild missions system is pretty big, but you completely ignored it. Lots of guilds make use of the guild mission system, probably more people than raided in Rift.

You forgot upgrades to WvW like the WxP which gives leveling which is something some people work for. You forgot how AC was completely redone, including all the bosses. You forgot 30 new dynamic events and 3 new jumping puzzles.

And let’s not belabor the fact though some content was temporary it EXISTED. Rift gave an event with some dailies for a new currency, NONE of their events included anything like the Mad King Dungeon, the MF dungeon, or even something as interesting/cool as Crab Toss.

Not everything will be for everyone but leaving out temporary content because it’s not there now, doesn’t mean people didn’t do/enjoy it. I absolutely love dragon ball, one of my favorite PvP matchs. Why isn’t it on your list? Because it won’t be there. The music game at Christmas was massively popular, as was the jumping puzzle. Halloween also had a popular jumping puzzle. These are all added content, just not permanent content. You can’t discount them if you could do them during the year.

Guild Wars 2 still has 2 months before it’s a year old, btw.

No I don’t think Rift offered more by this point in time, and most of the stuff they did offer in their monthly events was underwhelming.

I think the first thing you should do is identify your play style. Then you find a guild that fits that play style.

For example, I’m super casual, prefer PvE to PvP, and I’m not massively competitive. I’m not a farmer, I’m not in a rush to get things. I needed a casual PvE guild that ocassionally does some WvW and even more ocassionally some PvP if I want. I found what I was looking for.

Hopefully you’ll be able to do the same.

Harbard.5738:

wow a kittenin testament that no one is gonna read

TL DR: I’m surrounded by skritts. MMOs are meh because of them but I don’t have options.

Well apparently I have never met anyone like you in this game. I play like you. I actively play all 8 classes because i find them all a lot of fun. And while exploring the world with alts all by myself while everybody else grinds/farms their kitten off is not the endgame i hoped for, the classes are fun enough to keep me coming back. Better than any other mmo. (Well, lotro s minstrel is still high up there). Still, that’s not gonna last much longer I’m afraid, cause by now I’ve given up grindgendaries, given up social gameplay and given up dungeons just this evening. Even given up on ANet (used to be a fan from GW1). All because of this reward-oriented “mentality” the target playerbase (that’s not me) of MMOs have.

But you see, I never see anyone like you. Maybe I’m n the wrong server? i’m surrounded by kittens that spin their fractal wheel day in day out, taking breaks for hours, i said HOURS of CoF speed runs, because their grindgendary is so grindy they “have to” “play efficiently” (ugh) to have hopes to buy, BUY their ultra-shiny popsicle this year still (apparently the pinnacle of mmo-playing achievement). IF rng and playing the market helps, that is. I actually kinda feel sorry for them.
So i just play solo now, I gave up. I never saw some of the dungeons because no one cares of anything in this world other than CoF. So I gave up on dungeons this evening. Luckily their new trinkets are rewarded by guild activities, so i get some half-dead skritt to play the game with me in the weekend, since my friends have already quit after ascended, after all.

All in all I guess i’m used to being out of my element and mostly antisocial in a MMO because I feel I’m trying to have fun while everyone else is drowning in a cesspool of grinding, farming and apparently gambling now (“omg i just lost 5g on the moa racing! kitten anet!” “kittening chests!” “kittening mystic toilet!”).

Sometimes I don’t know why I keep playing these games cause I think it’s a bit depressing how they are made to condition people to the point they start getting too crazy about the rewards and their trinkets and whine and compare their gold/hour ratios, same crap all over every game. (This last one really makes me wonder why can’t there kittening be a massive online game with a huge world without a kittenin economy into it? Probably cause managing a massive game instead of a online casino is way harder, I guess. )

Wonder how many of us are actually out there and if we could successfully fund a real MMO game that is not there just to whet the acquisitive instincts of crazy people. Hopefully before I’m seen as “too old to be playing videogames” lol. Hope some capable company with huge balls is already trying to make something more in the lines of a huge sandbox world without trinkets and gold and just GAME, aka fun combat and mechanics. I really hope we are enough people to make a game like that stay afloat. One can dream.

Guest to Tarnished Coast. You are not alone. Most of my guild plays the way you do.

lorazcyk.8927:

SpyderArachnid.5619:

Vayne.8563:

I don’t understand how peoiple have to “go for dailies”. You mean you don’t gather as you’re running by stuff anyway? You mean you don’t end up killing 50 things while just running around? You mean to tell me crafting something or visiting a laurel vendor taks you so far out of your game.

I call BS. These things mostly happen naturally. Maybe at the end of my play session I have to finish one in a couple of minutes, but usually I finish the daily without even thinking about it.

And no I don’t think you’re playing wrong. I think you’re exhausted all the content. It’s like any game when you’ve exhausted the content. You get bored. How many hours have you played OP?

Not everyone plays the same as you though.

Why assume everyone is running around areas randomly, doing dailies along the way? Everyone’s play style is different. Not everyone is constantly running around zones randomly to do their dailies as they come about. And not everyone can play for hours straight, just picking up their dailies as they go.

Some people are only running dungeons. They have to go out of their way to do dailies. Or those in WvW or SPvP. They have to do the same thing. Or how about those that only have a couple hours to play a day? They have to go out of their way to get it done before they log off.

For those that want the best gear in the game, they have to do the dailies every day to get it. And most the time for those people, they have to go out of their way to do it. So in order for them to progress, they have to do dailies. Which ends up being their “endgame” cause it’s the only way to get the gear.

So while you spend all your time roaming around the world randomly, taking care of your dailies at a leisurely pace, others are having to go out of their way to get them done so they can progress. We don’t all have the luxury of time, nor do we all have the same play style.

And to add to that, for some of us, because of our schedule, play a little before the daily resets, get half the daily done, the daily resets, your progress is lost, and now you don’t have enough time to do the rest of the (new!) daily all over again.

You don’t have 20 minutes on either side of the divide?

Aristio.2784:

Vayne.8563:

taomang.2183:

Vayne.8563:

They didn’t fail to deliver. They delivered fine. Some people want more than it possible, that’s all. I’ve yet to see an MMO offer this amount of content during their first year.

Rift.

/10character

I played Rift. Rift offered far less content. If you take ALL of Telera, with it’s massive TWO starting areas, and the six races, two of which are human and two of which are elves, and you look at the size of the zones and the size of the world, you’ll find that even with all the upgrades of the first year, Rift didn’t offer the amount of content Guild Wars 2 offered AT LAUNCH.

Nice try. LMAO! Rift. Small zones. Small world. 500 some odd quests. A bunch of Rifts thrown on top of it. And half a dozen zone wide events. Too funny.

Also, content=/=playing area. Rift through out 10 full content patches in their first year. Averaging new STATIC content at the rate of once every month and a half.

Rifts content patches during the first year included:

A giant one time event for which Trion had to apologize, afterwhich they sent everyone a bonus for missing it. Much like the karka event without overflow servers.

A set of new Rifts every six weeks including a set of new dailies every six weeks, which included new currency every six weeks…but the daily events within those six weeks didn’t change. They had special events that lasted the length of the special events, with the same boring dailies every single day of the event.

Eventually they came out with 1 and 2 man instances, two at first but if you’d been playing since launch you’d already outgeared them, they scaled in no way and they were ridiculous.

So, you have two starting areas, making leveling alts brilliant, because all three races of a faction shared the starting area. After the first zones there were a limited amount of zones to level in. And when you got to end game you had dungeons that led to raids, dailys for rep grind and events to grind currency that were the same as the event before with the exception of one race.

They did add raids with updates…whee. If you like raids, I guess that’s great. But for a guy like me there was just about nothing. Oh wait, you could get new sparklies if you got the thing that allowed you to look in the next dimension.

Good job that. They didn’t go free to play because the game was doing well.

Infernia.9847:

@Vayne – Yeah it’s so hard to WP and all. I mean the massive expense and physical effort to click so many buttons. :P

THAT wasn’t my point at all but you singled it out. I’m sorry I touched a nerve.
I do my daily every day that I can. Sometimes it’s all I do. And recently there have been days that I’ve had extra time and just logged out when the daily was done. That feeling is disappointing.

The time gating is at issue more so than the perceived inconvenience of doing the daily. I don’t think the OP was complaining about the difficulty and neither was I.
Or at least I didn’t mean to come across as such.

I tried to make the point that for certain parts of the game ascended is needed and that telling people they don’t need it, isn’t the answer. Also that time gating gets tedious for the players and it feels contrived. Like something they tossed together quickly to slow people down. Ascended, if truly planned as a intermediary step between exotic and legendary, should have been fully implemented from the day they put it in the game. THOSE were the major points.

Since the daily started, I’ve done the daily most days. I have had enough for three ascended amulets with monthlies. I’ve only bought two.

I just don’t see that this is a major problem. I don’t need ascended amulets on every character. For most people, it’s not a problem.

I agree it’s a problem for a small percentage of people, but MMOs are made for the masses.

Cloudwalkernz.1328:

I not mind increasing difficulty but the developers need to increase rewards as well. Recently, difficulty in higher scale FOTM been increase but the drops has been remain the same. This makes doing the dungeons a lot less rewarding. If I am not trying to get my last 2 weapons skins I won’t even be bother with it.

This is what I’m talking about. There’s no real point in increasing difficulty without increasing rewards. A very small percentage of people will do harder content if you can get the same rewards for easier content. So more people are running CoF path 1 than any path of Arah for example. It’s easier and the reward is the same.

For challenging content to have a chance, the rewards must be better. And then you have a portion of the community, most likely the largest portion, complaining about a reward they’re locked out of.

It’s a lose/lose situation.

I suppose joining a guild is out of the question. lol

Gasoline.2570:

Its funny too because those have been since launch and still havent been fixed.

Mail limit. Mail supression. Mobs going invulnerable for no reason. Mobs random agro mechanics that break frequently in open world. Party window not updating.

Anets going for broke on keeping annoying bugs in, hopefully we still have all of these in a year.

First of all mail limit isn’t a bug, it’s a design decision that stops people from using mail as a bank all the time.

And of course, since you don’t look at all the bugs that have been fixed and all the issues that have been approved… it’s only natural that you’d have a jaded outlook. There are literally hundreds of bugs that have been fixed. maybe even thousands. But your list of five annoying ones makes a big difference. Sighs.

Raid group is not a raid, and I agree with the OP.

A raid group is simply a group of groups. Right now, the only way to get more than 5 people in a group together is to have a commander tag, which costs 100 gold. I think this is too steep a price.

A raid group would allow two groups of five people to join up into a single group.

Yesterday a small group from my guild were roaming in WvW. There were five of us. A sixth person joined and I had to leave the group so they could follow. It made me following them much harder.

Allowing an extended group isn’t a bad idea and doesn’t require raids at all.

The big thing Guild Wars 1 players miss from Guild Wars was the skill system. It wasn’t called build wars for no reason. Half the time your success or failure was decided before you left an outpost based on the skills that you took with you.

What Guild Wars 1 players often refuse to acknowledge is that very strength in the game was also it’s biggest weaknesss. It was literally impossible to balance. Sure it was okay in Prophecies. Once you introduced a new profession (sin/rit in Factions), it was over. No balance from that point on was even popular.

People say Guild Wars 2 PvE is imbalanced. They’ve obviously never encountered permasins and spirit spammers.

Nick.6972:

They lied. Manifesto video was full of lies to get people hyped and to get more attention, potential players.
That being said, some people are completely happy about this game and everything about it, and that’s fine, but this is not the sequel of GW1.

The moment someone releases MMO with GW1 mechanics, I’ll quit this game and never look back.

The MMO was one five minute video. They released literally hundreds of interviews and articles after that. If you were so smitten by the MMO that you missed all of them, the onus was on you.

The manifesto, as with all manifestos is a statement of intent, not a guarantee of delivery. One part of the manifesto was indeed confusing and ANet published a clarification immediately after to set the record straight. Since then they went into great details about skill systems, weapon systems, dynamic events, dungeons…everything you need to know to make an intelligent decision about the game. The manifesto came out in 2010. The game game out in 2012. Are you really saying in the manifesto was so well done that depite the dozens and dozens of other explanations, you simply didn’t know?

Doesn’t speak much to your ability to research an upcoming game.

Galtrix.7369:

Vayne.8563:

I like to think of myself as a hard-core casual.

I’m not particularly looking for challenge in an MMO, I’m looking for fun. I just want to sort of roam around and enjoy myself. I don’t mind occasional challenges, but I’m not always up for them.

I do a lot of everything. I bounce around a lot. I’m not too focused on just getting a legendary or just getting dungeon master, or just finishing my personal story. I’ll get there. When I feel like doing something, I do it.

I’m also a big fan of helping other people. Particularly but not limited to people in my guild. Anyone needs help with a dungeon or WvW or just finding a vista, I’m there.

I guess you could say I’m a social player, who enjoys the world for what it is, without putting too much pressure on the game to entertain me, because over the years I’ve learned to entertain myself.

Guild Wars 2, so far, is the only MMO that actually fits my play style.

Yeah, honestly there’s nothing “hardcore” about what you said you like to do. People that are hardcore rush to get things done, want things as fast as possible, and are dedicated to a specific part of the game until they complete it. In other words, they focus on certain aspects of the game, giving it their undivided attention, until they finish so they can move on as quickly as possible. I know this because I’m a hardcore player myself, and I know that I focus on individual aspects of the game. Unfortunately, when I finished the most important aspects of the game, (hitting 80, getting all exotic/ascended, and getting everything I wanted), I found that there was nothing left in the game to hold my interest. I tried to become a casual gamer at first, but it was so boring that I instantly went to other games. So, no. I suppose I’m not a gamer like you

You misunderstand me. I didn’t say I was hard core. I said I was hard core casual. That is, I’m very hard core about being casual. I could in no way be construed with being a hard core player. I’m a casual player, and I’m very hard core about being so.

Randulf.7614:

Vayne.8563:

zenleto.6179:

DigitalKirin.9714:

I long ago used to be a forum posting frequenter.

The mood rarely strikes me now to debate with people. I just play online with my guild and enjoy myself.

I’m getting to this stage with the forums. Very little substance, same old stuff going round and round.

I don’t play Forum Wars like you, Vayne

It’s a dirty job…but someone has to do it. lol

Absolutely not. No one has to do it at all. If ppl just let those whining and moaning have their say and not jump on their threads every 5 mins, their threads would die and the forums would be less cluttered and a lot more positive/constructive. Defending every action, whilst noble has only exasperated the issue ten fold because it keeps these threads in view longer than needed.

To answer the original question..I play this way, although even I’m finding this has finite life. Probably because I have over done the open world game so much, which is a testament to how enjoyable the pve experience is. Bizarrely I can’t seem to replicate this experience on any alts, which annoys me no end. For now, I roam whichever land takes my fancy or where I need mats. And rather than make it a grind, I try to make an adventure of it, regardless of how cheesy and corny that sounds

The problem here is two fold (with regards to posting on negative threads). First of all I don’t post in all negative threads and sometimes I agree with the posts in negative threads. I don’t know white knight mindlessly.

By the same token I know that the biggest percentage of forum readers never post at all and I also know that repetition has an effect on how people think. You probably don’t read a thread and believe what’s being said but a whole lot of people do…and most of them will never post.

By providing a balancing point of view, I’m giving those people a chance to see both sides of the issue.

pricer.5091:

Torpian.9142:

My mother always said ‘only stupid people get bored, they don’t know how to entertain themselves’.

Your mother was entirely wrong. The higher the intelligence the more the need for external stimulation. This is why there is frequently a link between high natural intelligence and poor behaviour in children at schools. It is also the reason why big cats, elephants, primates etc frequently display pacing behaviour, aggression and self-harm in captivity.

It is also the reason why highly intelligent people are usually not found working in highly repetitive jobs such as assembly line work.

You’ve said some untrue things but this is absolute at the bottom of the barrel. Intelligence doesn’t necessarily need to be spoon fed entertainment. SOME intelligent people can make their own entertainment.

What you’re confusing is something else with intelligence…and that’s drive. Some people are driven but many MANY intelligent people are not. A lot depends on their upbringing, their life experiences, their genes.

My intelligence tests quite high. I’m almost never bored. (and when I say quite high I mean just around the beginning’s of genius level). But I grew up in circumstances where I LEARNED to entertain myself, because when I grew up entertainment wasn’t spoon fed the way it is today. You had to think. Had to use your imagination. Had to figure out how to entertain yourself.

And once you get into that habit, external stimulation,. while nice, isn’t necessary.

ASaturnus.4980:

It’s my style of playing, too. I do what I want to do. Ok, somethimes I do what my wife wants to do. I think I will have fun for years in GW2. Maybe I’ll have a legendary or two sometime in the future, if not then not. In other games, I do much more to get on instead to have fun.

We have this is common. I do what my wife wants to do in game too, most of the time anyway. lol

Arimahn.3568:

Morrigan.2809:

Arimahn.3568:

Vayne.8563:

Guild Wars 2, so far, is the only MMO that actually fits my play style.

No offense but I suspect this might be because you’re too unfocused to get one single thing done. Which is in itself not a bad habit, but it does stretch out the content in GW2 “unnaturally”. I promise you, a few days after you manage to get a Legendary or whatever other goal you set yourself you’d be bored.

not to be a groupie :P
but Vayne does have a legendary

Okay, I didn’t know that. Still, if your goal is to not have a goal, of course there’s enjoyment to be had. Most people just try to achieve things methodically.

Most people don’t try to achieve things methodically. Most people who do just assume most people are like them. But that’s not a fact at all. That’s a statement you’d have a hard time proving.

At very least this thread should be an eye opener at just how many people don’t play that way.

Arimahn.3568:

Vayne.8563:

Guild Wars 2, so far, is the only MMO that actually fits my play style.

No offense but I suspect this might be because you’re too unfocused to get one single thing done. Which is in itself not a bad habit, but it does stretch out the content in GW2 “unnaturally”. I promise you, a few days after you manage to get a Legendary or whatever other goal you set yourself you’d be bored.

You’ve broken your promise. I’ve had a legendary for weeks now. I’m not bored. I’m not even close to bored. I’ve gotten dungeon master too. I’m STILL not bored.

Your move.

Infernia.9847:

I know people like to say it only takes a few minutes to complete dailies, or that it’s so easy that it can be done while you’re not even trying to do it… But I have not found that to be the case at least for me.
Yes, there are days that the daily is very easy and is quickly obtained if you pay attention. But there are just as many days that they require you to move to other maps or do things you would not normally do. In the distant past it was a non-issue. Unless you were farming Karma, who cared?
We have laurels now and though it is not a requirement to obtain BiS gear, many people would like to obtain it in a reasonable amount of time. And if we want ascended gear then laurels is a must.
I have alts, lots of them. I play alts to mix it up and have some fun. I also play them in multiple areas of the game. So my main is wearing an amulet and I almost have enough guild commendations for the earrings. I took her to fractals for the first time recently and am having fun there, so rings are next.
I guess that my point is, my endgame is gearing everyone up in ascended so that I have some choices. If I want to take my necro to fractals or my ranger, I can. If my guild needs the guardian in WvW or forbid, the ranger, then I can. You can come here and tell me how the ascended equips are unnecessary for WvW or whatever other part of the game they aren’t required. Yet I see them as necessary especially since all my characters are going to go through fractals at some point. That also means that dailies are a must.
I don’t see dailies being a difficult grind but I really am tired of the overall time gating. Ascended, if they were ever really intended, should have been fully implemented from day one. Craftable for the ugly sector of armor/weapons, buyable with karma, laurels, or gold and acquired through loot drops in open world (albeit rare drops). Then and only then would I consider this a gear tier that was ‘intended’ from the start.

OMG you have to …move maps? I didn’t know. You mean you have to use a way point and go somewhere for five minutes? Now that I know that I’ve completely changed my mind. A waypoint! How horrible for you.

Yes, you have to port somewhere and spent four minutes there for a laurel. If it’s such a big deal don’t do it. Do you know the expression storm in a teacup. This fits perfectly.

taomang.2183:

Vayne.8563:

They didn’t fail to deliver. They delivered fine. Some people want more than it possible, that’s all. I’ve yet to see an MMO offer this amount of content during their first year.

Rift.

/10character

I played Rift. Rift offered far less content. If you take ALL of Telera, with it’s massive TWO starting areas, and the six races, two of which are human and two of which are elves, and you look at the size of the zones and the size of the world, you’ll find that even with all the upgrades of the first year, Rift didn’t offer the amount of content Guild Wars 2 offered AT LAUNCH.

Nice try. LMAO! Rift. Small zones. Small world. 500 some odd quests. A bunch of Rifts thrown on top of it. And half a dozen zone wide events. Too funny.

stayBlind.7849:

Korrigan.4837:

bullettohead.9715:

Korrigan.4837:

mjharrison.3209:

• The core combat mechanics are bad/overly simplified.
• Auto-attacking is sufficient to easily get through 99% of the content.
• Skills are very generic. No choice in skills.
• Most traits are ineffectual and barely change anything.
• The AI is terrible.

When people have to resort to lies like these to bash a game, you know the game is good.

GW2 is not perfect, it has issues, but those listed in that post aren’t part of them.

Absolutely none of those are lies. At all. Don’t try and defend yourself by just saying “yeah well he’s a liar” without any actual substance to your argument.

Amusingly, you do exactly the thing you pretend I was doing. Ironic, isn’t it?

• The core combat mechanics are bad/overly simplified.
  This is obviously the opinion of a person you didn’t understand the GW2 combat mechanics, or someone who thinks having a “trinity” is deeply complex.

• Auto-attacking is sufficient to easily get through 99% of the content.
  This is just plain wrong, an obvious lie, anyone playing the game knows that.

• Skills are very generic. No choice in skills.
  This is plain wrong too. Each weapon setup has 5 different skills, and the choice of slot skills is huge for each class. Each class also has at least one skill, most classes several, that adds 5 totally different weapon skills, be is morphing the character into something else, or stuff like grenades.

• Most traits are ineffectual and barely change anything.
  Another plain lie, anyone playing the game knows it. Changing traits also completely changes the way you play and the weapons to use.

• The AI is terrible.
  Is it? Please list me MMOs with better AI, please. And I don’t mean scripted crap like in WoW clones, where some “boss” mobs always do the same things at the same moment, I mean real AI. Or do you mean the nonsense AI of mobs who can be “taunted” and only hit the character with the best armor and with 5 healers healing him?

As I said, all the points are, at best flawed opinion of someone who thinks GW2 should be another trinity based WoW clone, at worse just plain lies to bash the game.

GW2 is a WoW clone without the trinity.

Before you derail people’s arguments into “trinity sucks”, maybe you should realize that most of the people that are upset about the GW2 systems are comparing said systems to GW1, not the generic MMO mechanics that GW2 has altered slightly.

Guild Wars 2 is a WoW clone in the same way that Pizza Hut is a McDonald’s clone. They offer different experiences for people. No WoW clone would be complete without raiding. Or is it the mounts you’re referring to.

This game has nothing to do with WoW. If you think it does, no wonder you’re not enjoying it.

I know we don’t see eye to eye on a lot of stuff, but these suggestions are great.

Arimahn.3568:

Vayne.8563:

Arimahn.3568:

I quit because my first, and main, character is an engineer.

Need I say more?

That’s interesting. My first character, the first character I leveled to 80 was also an engineer. I still do quite well with him.

I like him a whole lot more than I like my 80th level warrior.

I like my engineer too, that’s why I can’t really bring myself to level a worthwhile class. I stuck with it long enough and kept on top of what’s good (read: not FUBAR) but every single patch so far has been an uphill struggle against the flailings of the balance team. Remember when Flamethrower was pretty good? Remember Grenades?

Nah I was more of a bomb guy. And I love rifle. I don’t particularly mind elixir gun in certain situations, either.

Oh, grenades underwater I still love. Just not a fan of ground targetting.

Bright.9160:

Vayne.8563:

Bright.9160:

Vayne.8563:

Though I don’t consider BIS gear necessary in any part of this game (helpful though it might be), I agree that it’s bad design to put amulets only in dailies for laurels.

Try surviving Maw agony at lvl48 without 45 AR…

Yes, it’s not 100% necessary, since you can just do the 99% trick, but it’s really not optimal design.

So tell me, what percentage of the game’s population do think does fractals above level forty?

I thought I was done here, but okay…

I don’t see what point you’re trying to get across. Ascended Amulets are optional to the people that don’t do 40+ fractals. They’re nigh mandatory for people that DO do them. And guess which of those people have more trouble getting the dailies done?

Basically, the Laurel system is catering to the people that need the ascended gear the least and it’s gating the people that need it the most.

But like I said, I just want alternatives to the Ascended Amulets, I’m perfectly fine with the rings and the accessories.

I’m not disagreeing that there should be other ways to get amulets. I’m just looking at the big picture.

Devs seldom make decisions based on a small minority of players, that’s all I’m suggesting here. I’m not saying they shouldn’t change it at all. But I am saying I understand why this isn’t a priority for them.

A complaints section of the forum? How silly.

We should have a non-complaints section. The rest of the forum IS complaints. lol

pricer.5091:

GW2 is not about being nice (I know, because its doesnt say so in the manifesto). I think you must have it confused with “My Little Pony: The MMO”. Like most peopIe I say nice things about things I like. I complain about things I don’t.

The only reason I post on this forum at all is (like the thousands of other people who make the same complaints) to attempt to get change. As it’s the only communication channel available with the company that make the game I dont think this is unreasonable.

I agree. Without the hyperbole and the stupid stuff people say, it’s perfectly reasonable. Being offensive for no real reason other than you think it’s okay to be that way?

Not so much.

Bright.9160:

Vayne.8563:

Though I don’t consider BIS gear necessary in any part of this game (helpful though it might be), I agree that it’s bad design to put amulets only in dailies for laurels.

Try surviving Maw agony at lvl48 without 45 AR…

Yes, it’s not 100% necessary, since you can just do the 99% trick, but it’s really not optimal design.

So tell me, what percentage of the game’s population do think does fractals above level forty?

pricer.5091:

Its tragic that you can’t accept that this game you like so much has so many other people so bored they can’t even play it for more than ten minutes. Even more tragic you have to spend half your time on forums defending a company that doesn’t care about you.

I not only accept it, I agree with it. I agree with what you say here. Not the part about Anet not caring (if nothing else they care because they want more money), but the rest of it, I agree.

Many people find this game boring. See, I can agree with this, because it’s a statement of fact. I’m sure it’s true. I don’t CARE that some people or even that many people don’t like it.

But in the past I’ve been called a liar before by people who were simply wrong. That is to say, I said something in good faith, a situation changed and people called me a liar. I don’t like it done to me, I don’t think it should be done to other people either.

The only people I currently call liars are people I know for a fact intended to mislead me, or those who call other liars without actually knowing if they are or not.

Babayum.9204:

AndrewSX.3794:

Depends what will be actually released in upcoming 6 months.

So far the competitors are so bad that Gw2, even with all its flaws, it’s prolly best option on the market atm.
(imo).

But yeah, just let WildStar or Archeage get out and things will change, and fast.

Archeage, are you serious? That game looks terrible.

I had big hopes for Archeage before Trion bought it.

pricer.5091:

Jski.6180:

pricer.5091:

You cant disagree. The video is on Youtube for all to see. It is a factual entity that you are not entitled to dismiss. It makes statements that are false. As are you.

ANet making clarifications after people have already bought the game is nothing more than cowardly dishonesty…which is even worse.

See saying “cowardly dishonesty” shows your views are so one sided that you cant be trusted at all for any type of prospective. Anet in your eyes can never do right and i images there are a lot of things in your life you feel the same way as you do with Anet. But what your doing at the end of the day is just slowly closing off life from your self your going to end very lonely at this rate.

I actually laughed. Im closing off “life” from myself because I’m angry I spent money and continued to spend money on a game that lied to me. Wow, I’ll think twice before sending my next bad meal back in case the restaraunt staff don’t like me anymore. I might cry. Get a grip, you’ve lost the plot.

Maybe one day, you’ll understand the definition of lie. Ironically you might then realize that you’re telling them now.

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

Repeating a word over and over again doesn’t make it true.

Show. Don’t tell.

1. rule for writers.

I’ve shown. I don’t have to keep showing.

If you call someone a liar, the onus of PROOF is on you. Prove intent. Simple.

Anyway, writing fiction isn’t the same as writing forum posts. Nice try though.

Sigh.

“Repeating a word over and over again doesn’t make it true.”

Do as I say, not as I do.

1. rule for forum posters.

Now do you get it?

I’m repeating what I repeat, in response to what other people repeat. I do this all the time. It’s called irony.

Someone insults me and I use the exact same line to insult them back.

I get what you’re saying. As long as people continue to use hyperbole and say ridiculous stuff, I’ll be here saying what I say.

Deal with it.

pricer.5091:

You cant disagree. The video is on Youtube for all to see. It is a factual entity that you are not entitled to dismiss. It makes statements that are false. As are you.

ANet making clarifications after people have already bought the game is nothing more than cowardly dishonesty…which is even worse.

Anet made the clarification long long before the game went on sale. Anet went to great lengths since then to tell people EXACTLY how dynamic events function and exactly how personal stories worked.

Anyone who just watched the manifesto, without looking into the game at all is an idiot anyway.

People didn’t know that events would ping pong back and forth between end points, or repeat? Crap.

People didn’t know we’d have less skills than Guild Wars 1? Crap.

People didn’t know skills would be linked to weapons? Crap.

The manifesto came out in 2010. There is so much that came out after that clarified every single point about this game.

Do you even realize how long two years is in this industry?

pricer.5091:

Hiding facts behind semantics doesn’t alter them. The fact is that the game was promised as something it simply isn’t. Much like a political manifesto, you might argue…hiding the promises behind the words “manifesto” still doesn’t make the failure to deliver anything but lies.

I disagree that the game was promised to be something it isn’t. Straight out disagree. You’re hiding behind words and semantics too, trying to change what’s said to mean something different.

But that doesn’t actually change it’s meaning.

Probably, without the clarification Anet issued, you’d have more of a point.

Bright.9160:

MrRuin.9740:

I did not list the event dailies, because I’m not 100% sure if they do count in dungeons. If they do this would also encompass the regional event daily.

They do, and yes, I’ve gotten 5/5 dailies from just doing a CoE run before, but usually, I end up with 2/5 or 3/5 and I still need to go kill some guys in Kryta and chop some trees… All in all not too bad usually, but you’re still missing my point, which is an answer to this one.

MrRuin.9740:

There’s really not much need for more options just because it’s not tailored exactly for how you want to get them.

My main beef with the dailies isn’t necessarily that they’re so boring, although it’s certainly something that makes me hate them more…

My main problem with them is that they’re the only way to acquire certain items in game. That’s their big flaw. It gates certain players or certain people that just simply hate doing them from getting that gear. When this geat is BIS and semi-necessary to get into certain aspects of the game, you have bad game design.

Though I don’t consider BIS gear necessary in any part of this game (helpful though it might be), I agree that it’s bad design to put amulets only in dailies for laurels.

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

Repeating a word over and over again doesn’t make it true.

Show. Don’t tell.

1. rule for writers.

I’ve shown. I don’t have to keep showing.

If you call someone a liar, the onus of PROOF is on you. Prove intent. Simple.

Anyway, writing fiction isn’t the same as writing forum posts. Nice try though.

pricer.5091:

Just about everything in that manifesto trailer is absolute lies.

“We dont want you to kill aboss and have him spawn ten minutes later”

“When you rescue a village, that village stays rescued and the people remember you”

“You affect the world”

“We dont make grindy games”

LOL. Vayne…keep going, you are making yourself look faintly silly. Forget the grind for “stuff”…the actual game itself falls short on EVERY single thing it was meant to be by a country mile.

And yes, I have played many MMO’s and to a degree they were all grindy, but then they didnt fall over themsleves to tell me they weren’t.

Lie still implies intent. A manifesto is a statement of intent not a guarantee of delivery. There’s nothing about the manifesto that is a lie. At the most, all you can say is that an intent to deliver something went awry.

Unless you can PROVE intent to deceive? No?

I didn’t think so.

Repeating a word over and over again doesn’t make it true.

Edit: And you should definitely see if you can find the clarification that was published immediately after, because many people were confused. Colin is talking about dynamic events, Ree is talking about personal story.

Lunar Sunset.8742:

Harder content is always welcomed by most people, sure a few people might have troubles but everything is pretty easy to learn. I mean at release Arah/Lupi were impossible unless you were the best players in the game, now look at it, most pug teams can do it with minimal trouble.

As the difficulty scales in fractals most people play their guardians because that’s really the only truly viable profession for pug teams. If you play with a structured guild team you have no problem with 40+ fractals (and they are pretty easy for being the “hard” content).

Also, I would love to see the new content bosses have lower health and higher toughness to make condition builds viable.

I think you’ll find harder content isn’t welcomed by most people. That’s what devs have been saying for years, and it’s why content gets nerfed in almost every game.

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

But combat has nothing at all to do with gear grind. The way people are interpreting it is a lie. It’s not a lie.

Point 1. Look up manifesto. It’s a statement of intent, not a guarantee of delivery.
Point 2. The game DELIVERS fun stuff in early zones. That happens to be a matter of taste. I never had to go through boring grind to get to the fun stuff. In fact, for most people, the boring grind doesn’t really start until max level. Ergo there’s no lie there.
Point 3. When people use the word lie, they imply intent. There isn’t a person alive who can tell me 100% certain that when Colin said those words he INTENDED to mislead.

If I go and tell my kids I’m going to take them to the movies, and then I get a call and have to go into work, I didn’t lie to them. I told them the truth. The situation changed.

As long as people throw around the word lie, I’ll continue to correct them.

The MOST you could say is that Anet’s intent wasn’t realized. And even that’s a complete matter of opinion.

No one can factually say the manifesto is a lie.

It was a commercial. The intent behind it was to get people to buy the game. It targeted a specific audience (GW1 vets and people tired of standard MMO bullkitten) and portrayed the game as one which would offer a variety of features designed to please that audience (everything you loved about Guild Wars 1! hey, no boring grind to get to the fun stuff! hey, these NPCs remember you! etc.) while dramatically failing to mention things that would not (ascended gear).

The manifesto served its commercial purpose: lots of folks in the targeted audience bought the portrayal, and subsequently bought the game. But when the initial thrill of playing a whole new Guild Wars game wore off, what did they find they had they actually bought? Not much of anything anyone loved about GW 1, a whole heap of boring grinds to get to the fun stuff, tons of NPCs that don’t remember them, and a wide array of standard MMO bullkitten. And ascended gear. And DR. And RNG chests. And temporary content. And that big gaping hole in Divinity’s Reach where a little piece of Cantha used to be.

Was it all a pack of ‘factual’ lies? I say one need only look at what’s come since launch to find the answer.

First, I disagree with your assessement. I’m a Guild Wars 1 player. I’ve got 50/50 in my HoM. I’ve got my GWAMM title. I disagree with your assessment. Particularly the boring grind to get to the fun stuff comment.

See that’s opinion, not fact…because I don’t see a legendary as fun stuff. It’s an item. And Guild Wars 1 had plenty of grind to get to certain items. Unless you happened to get frog scepters, celestial compasses and voltaic spear drops all the time, which I’m sure you didn’t.

Guild Wars 1 had grind for items. We have grind for items here. Imagine that. And getting something wrong still doesn’t imply lying.

tigirius.9014:

Unfortunately the type of players that play simply to see lore, to watch the scenery and who aren’t interested in the rewards system at all are the minority. I place those players in the same category as RPers who have the same lack of concern for the rewards system or for the problems this game faces with it’s rewards. It’s not a bad thing at all but it doesn’t help with the fight to make the game the best it can be and to fix the problems the rest of the community who does care faces on a week to week basis.

Proof? Because you don’t really know this to be true. You only know the most vocal segment of the population.

I know you like to say stuff like this as fact, but it’s really just your opinion. And I’m guessing a lot of devs don’t share it…and they KNOW how people play.

Nick.6972:

Devs don’t care.
/thread

LMAO! You never get tired of maligning people, do you?

pullnointer.1476:

Vayne.8563:

Guild Wars 2 dailies are the gentlest dailies I’ve ever seen in an MMO. You only need to do 5 of the 9. Most of them you’ll get doing whatever you normally do.

If they were any easier, you might as well just get them for logging in.

that is not true. I run fractals and I – never – get my daily. mostly goes up to 1 or 2

I’ve run fractals and gotten 3. I did say most of your dailies not all of them. And you can’t say I haven’t gotten three, because I have. But even if you get two, doing three more MIGHT take you 15 minutes. One of them is always gathering. Takes practically no time at all.

So if you get two from fractals and have to do three more….15 minutes TOPS. The last time I did a fractal I got veteran slayer, condition remover and I think it was reviver, so I was at 3 of 5 when I finished.

RoterFuchs.9216:

Vayne.8563:

Erasculio.2914:

Vayne.8563:

Point 1. Look up manifesto. It’s a statement of intent, not a guarantee of delivery.

Irrelevant, tbh. Saying it’s a lie or not is more a discussion about semantics than a discussion about the game.

We know Guild Wars 2 was a work in progress (and is a work in progress). Dyes were originally account-wide and now are character wide; engineers originally had an Absorb skill that was later given to mesmers; ArenaNet claimed they didn’t want players to grind, and now the game has a lot of grind. Are any of those lies? Meh, not really, but what we call them doesn’t matter. I’m more concerned about why did those changes happen, and the impact they had in the game, than in discussing how to call them.

I have a strong feeling that ArenaNet had a conflicting view of the game; some aspects appear to have been made to avoid grind, others have been made to embrace grind. It has increased from what we were originally told the game would have (one armor or weapon piece per dungeon run, dyes account locked, maxed gear being easy to get), and I don’t like that direction, nor do I believe it’s healthy for the game. If the team really is ambivalent in this aspect, I would like them to know that at least one person – me – wishes them to go on the direction to reduce grind, not increase it. That’s pretty much all I can do to improve the game.

Anet said from day one, long before the game launched that there would be things to grind for. This isn’t new information. I know for a fact Eric Flannum stated it in interviews. The entire fractals were designed for the I want to grind crowd.

But calling something a lie isn’t just a matter of semantics. It’s at very least misleading and takes away from any legit argument.

If you want to argue about or discuss the game…argue about and discuss the game. Don’t bring up a 2 year old manifesto that came out before the game launched that is nothing more than a statement of intent anyway.

If you have to resort to the manifesto to make your point, you probably don’t have that much of a point in the first place.

It’s like when you argue with your wife and she brings up stuff you did two years ago that have nothing to do with the current situation. It doesn’t make her right, whether she’s right to be angry or not.

Well let’s cut this short then: Most of the living story content that has been released is a grind. Just take a look at the latest addition: Light 100 fireworks. Bash 150 pinatas. Kill 300 Holograms. Get 100000 Zhaitaffy. Yay.
“But it’s content for a whole month so take your time!” Cool. So if I stretch this over a large period of time it suddenly isn’t grind anymore? Nice. Going by this definition, not even asia grinders are grindy. Just take your time, and suddenly it’s not grind anymore. Awesome.

And yes, there would be things to grind for. To please a certain type of crowd. That’s fine. But lately everything ANet has been doing was to add grindy content or prolong existing grind. Slowly nerfing all the farm spots.
“But farming is not grinding!” Well, grinding is killing mobs to level. Farming is killing mobs to acquire items. Both terms mean that you have to kill mobs to achieve something. Kill mobs. Repeatedly. So in essence, grinding is farming and vice versa. It’s just a subtle difference with the core activity staying the same.

We criticize that ANet is turning this game into a grind. With each update a little more. The manifesto is just how the game was supposed to be some time back. It’s like a dream. A dream that got many of us hooked. It’s not a lie, but ANet has strayed from this path and we would like them to get back on.

You can actually farm without killing mobs. People farm mats, for example by gathering, which is considered farming, so in that, grinding isn’t the same as farming.

More to the point, you’re making some valid arguments, but none of it has anything to do with the manifesto. Even if everything in this game was different from the manifesto, a two year old statement of intent isn’t relevant at this time.

You can say, I hate the grind and that’s fine. You can say that these new achievements are stupid, and that’s fine.

But once you bring up the manifesto, you’re actually detracting from your argument. Just say you don’t like the grind. Stop bringing the manifesto into it. Because it will end up derailing the conversation. It’s misleading, unnecessary and shouldn’t be brought up.

And every time it does, it’ll end up derailing the argument.

If your facts are good enough, you don’t need hyperbole to make them better.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Vayne.8563:

Sorry, but I only want to do dungeons doesn’t really cut it. This game has 8 dungeons, but it’s not the entire game. The dungeon itself also has rewards were are generally greater than just playing in the open world.

The other comment I have has to do with this being unfair to people who can’t play every day. I have two comments for that. If you play less, you should get stuff slower. That’s just logical…but more…

It does cut it. It’s what the devs want, and they have very clearly said it. They want players to finish dailies while doing the stuff they most like. So if a player likes doing challenging, team-driven content (dungeons, fractals) over exploring the world, they will get punished for it. Currently, dailies reward world exploration more so than anything else, and only recently did they start rewarding wvw participation decently.

Also, just because you don’t log in everyday, doesn’t means you’re playing less. If you don’t log in a single day, and play for 4 hours the following day, you’re playing more this game than someone who logs one hour each of those two days.

I can understand the psychological idea of dailies creating playing habits, but when the game needs to force down your throat a daily habit, then something is wrong.

Originally there are X numbers of options and you had to do all of them. But it was the same thing every day. People forgot about them, so they didn’t serve the purpose.

Anet changed it by making the daily more specific, and in doing so, people had to go out of their way to get them.

Anet changed it so that there was a choice out of so many, so people could choose the one they did.

Anet isn’t likely to make a dungeon only one, no matter what you say. They’ve done what they said out to do for MOST of the playerbase. The five guys that can’t finish the dailies now, too bad.

That’s what you don’t get. A dev says something he’s talking to EVERYONE not just you. And because of that, it’s not going to fit EVERYONE, and someone will complain. But it’s really not reasonable.

Guns and Giblets.9308:

Vayne.8563:

All good comments so far.

The problem of course is once you make an area harder, people will want more reward for doing it, and that’s where the problem lies.

Anet doesn’t want everyone hanging out in Orr. If you create harder zones, and you don’t reward people for doing them, people won’t do them. That’s already been proven…and yes, I know some people will, but not nearly enough.

I can’t speak for everyone, but I’m generally happy without extra rewards for harder content (if that content is fun, obviously). I did speed runs in Stratholme in WoW for fun. The people I went with just wanted a shot at the Deathcharger mount—a cosmetic upgrade. With the right mechanics, something like this could work well.

Honestly I don’t really see a solution to this issue.

Wait, what? An issue where I’m more optimistic than you are?

I don’t know. I’d like some harder content too. But as soon as that content comes out, someone is going to come here and start raging about the content being too hard. There are already people complaining about the reward/effort ratio.

I’m thinking that Anet doesn’t want to kitten off casual players by making rewards they can’t really get. I mean a lot of casuals won’t be getting dungeon master, even though others claim the dungeons are easy. But many people who are saying they’re too easy also talk about increasing the rewards.

And I just don’t see Anet doing that.

Zerbo.5381:

Honestly, I don’t know why I bother, but I’m bored. There is no specific definition for “grind”. (By the way, “this grind” in American slang can also be interpreted as “a grind”, and based on the way the word is used, actually sounds like what is meant here). The word “grind” is only used to describe the context of what exists in “most games”. As you’ve pointed out, you can only assume what “grind” means based on the context. However, the context itself is also open for interpretation. Most importantly, what does “the fun stuff” mean?

Therefore, the fallacy of your argument is that you base a description of a word based on a context that in itself is open for interpretation, then impose that description on the second part of the dialogue, making it only valid to your specific point of view. Additionally, it seems that you attempt to hide this fallacy by trying to convince everyone of your expertise on this subject, claiming what I and others see as your opinion to be fact.

Personally, I don’t really care if the manifesto was a lie or not, but I am concerned that some aspects of it don’t match the game we have now. Whether it was intended or not, a lot of people had the impression after watching the manifesto that there would be little grind in this game in general. I think the most important lesson to take from this topic, regardless of the manifesto, is that many people do feel that a lot grind does exist in this game, and they aren’t happy about it. Unfortunately, it doesn’t appear to be changing anytime soon, and some have even argued that it’s getting worse. This is why the feel the need to speak out against it. Continually implying it’s their own fault for having these expectations in the first place because they’ve interpreted the manifesto incorrectly isn’t necessarily helping the well-being of the game in general.

I don’t know why you bother either..because you’ve completed ignored my main argument.

As I’ve said, three times now, it doesn’t even MATTER how YOU define grind if the word grind is defined by context in a piece. Colin defined we he was talking about and agree or not, that’s what he was talking about. It’s really really simple.

People seem to ignore the fact that I have spoken out against things in the game. But I won’t stand there and let people say stuff is a lie that’s not a lie because I consider that to be wrong.

And since I’m on these forums like everyone else, I have the right to say when I think something is wrong.

Bright.9160:

Vayne.8563:

Sorry, but I only want to do dungeons doesn’t really cut it. This game has 8 dungeons, but it’s not the entire game. The dungeon itself also has rewards were are generally greater than just playing in the open world.

That’s funny, because as far as I know, and I like to think I know a thing or 2 about dungeons, there are only 2 dungeons that give decent rewards for the time spent…

Tell me again how you can get 4 rares by standing afk and using autoattack in dungeons in only a couple of minutes?

Much of the time, even when I do a dungeon I get 2-3 dailies out of it. Not all the time but much of it.

That only works if you actually plan which dungeon you’re doing, and the dungeon in question for example contains “Events in X” or “Veterans in X” . You actually have to go out of your way to pick the right dungeon for that.. Which I don’t mind, but many people I know for example would rather not do CM to get Kryta events/vets.

As I said much of the time. Some dungeons do give you events. Some dungeons do give you veterans. And some days veterans and events aren’t linked to specific areas. There’s all rezzer, which I get in dungeons pretty often. There’s condition applier, condition remover, daily dodger, not to mention the days when they just have kills.

It won’t happen every day, but it does happen often.

All good comments so far.

The problem of course is once you make an area harder, people will want more reward for doing it, and that’s where the problem lies.

Anet doesn’t want everyone hanging out in Orr. If you create harder zones, and you don’t reward people for doing them, people won’t do them. That’s already been proven…and yes, I know some people will, but not nearly enough.

Honestly I don’t really see a solution to this issue.

DiogoSilva.7089:

I hope devs are reading these kind of threads.

Dailies were meant to reward players that were just “playing the game normally”, but there’s a few problems that prevent dailies from working like that. One of the biggest reasons for that, is how uneven dailies are.

From my experience, doing gathering + leveling + daily kills, plus a few other stuff like that, can take between 20 minutes and an hour or more, depending on what other side-stuffing you are doing, where you decide to go, etc. That’s fine. You can explore the world while doing dailies, and in this sense, the devs have acchieved what they wanted.

Likewise, recently-added wvw dailies also allow wvw players to get dailies done by just playing normally.

However, doing fractals, or a dungeon, takes about as much time as doing 3-6 other taily tasks. And THAT’s unfair. If someone wants to spend 40 minutes doing a dungeon (cof1 is the exception, let’s ignore that abomination), that player will only get 1/5 of the dailies done (sometimes, depending on the day, 2 or 3 dailies, and sometimes even none). This FORCES a dungeon/ fractals player to do stuff they don’t want to do, which is annoying. There needs to exist more dungeon dailies, or the current ones should be worth more.

Also, dailies are very restricting and punishing to players who can’t log in everyday. There should exist some sort of system that allows you to finish the dailies from the last 1-2 days. That’s because sometimes, depending on each player’s mood and time, there are days where they might not feel playing GW2 much (or just doing pvp or a dungeon or something), and there are days where those same players spend hours in the game. Dailies currently treat those players unfairly: they should get the same amount of laurels for having the same dedication to the game, but they don’t, because the current daily system has a very strict schedule.

Fix those issues, and dailies will truly feel what they were intended to be: a reward add-on for doing normal stuff, instead of something that forces you to do side-stuff and takes away from your precious time.

Sorry, but I only want to do dungeons doesn’t really cut it. This game has 8 dungeons, but it’s not the entire game. The dungeon itself also has rewards were are generally greater than just playing in the open world.

Much of the time, even when I do a dungeon I get 2-3 dailies out of it. Not all the time but much of it.

The other comment I have has to do with this being unfair to people who can’t play every day. I have two comments for that. If you play less, you should get stuff slower. That’s just logical…but more…

From a business point of view, the whole purpose of dailies is to get people to log in as often as possible. If you take away that ability, you take away the reason Anet has them in the game from a business perspective. Because that’s what they’re there for.

It means more people in the game, so more events spawn so that people playing have more people playing with them. That’s good for them game.

I wouldn’t expect Anet to change that.

Erasculio.2914:

Vayne.8563:

Point 1. Look up manifesto. It’s a statement of intent, not a guarantee of delivery.

Irrelevant, tbh. Saying it’s a lie or not is more a discussion about semantics than a discussion about the game.

We know Guild Wars 2 was a work in progress (and is a work in progress). Dyes were originally account-wide and now are character wide; engineers originally had an Absorb skill that was later given to mesmers; ArenaNet claimed they didn’t want players to grind, and now the game has a lot of grind. Are any of those lies? Meh, not really, but what we call them doesn’t matter. I’m more concerned about why did those changes happen, and the impact they had in the game, than in discussing how to call them.

I have a strong feeling that ArenaNet had a conflicting view of the game; some aspects appear to have been made to avoid grind, others have been made to embrace grind. It has increased from what we were originally told the game would have (one armor or weapon piece per dungeon run, dyes account locked, maxed gear being easy to get), and I don’t like that direction, nor do I believe it’s healthy for the game. If the team really is ambivalent in this aspect, I would like them to know that at least one person – me – wishes them to go on the direction to reduce grind, not increase it. That’s pretty much all I can do to improve the game.

Anet said from day one, long before the game launched that there would be things to grind for. This isn’t new information. I know for a fact Eric Flannum stated it in interviews. The entire fractals were designed for the I want to grind crowd.

But calling something a lie isn’t just a matter of semantics. It’s at very least misleading and takes away from any legit argument.

If you want to argue about or discuss the game…argue about and discuss the game. Don’t bring up a 2 year old manifesto that came out before the game launched that is nothing more than a statement of intent anyway.

If you have to resort to the manifesto to make your point, you probably don’t have that much of a point in the first place.

It’s like when you argue with your wife and she brings up stuff you did two years ago that have nothing to do with the current situation. It doesn’t make her right, whether she’s right to be angry or not.