Guild Wars 2

Farry.8259:

There is no matchmaking.

There is… it just doesn’t work too well. Which may or may not have something to do with player count.

Farry.8259:

Even the combat of Neverwinter is more responsive.

Not sure if serious.

Hoka.7930:

They also should play in Europe for example with RG, SiN, Scnd, HoB, VII, GH, VotF and more guilds like that (sorry if i forgot anyone no offence).

The ones I see play in SEAS and NA prime, hard for them to play on EU brackets when they are asleep during that time. :p But instead they can play with our (JQ, SoR, and BG) neat guilds.

Hoka.7930:

Why Arena Net Developers not try to play a few days in the borders with this guilds? to help improve the game on allot of points? Skillwise, Siegewise, Guildwise etc?

They do play, now since they often play on SoR we at BG make it a point to kill them at all costs.

Aye.8392:

Having the mention of traps without any explanation of how they actually work is troublesome.

I buy a trap that removes supply from enemy players.
I see the enemy zerg hitting a supply camp.
I trap the road out of the supply camp with my handy-dandy anti-supply trap.
The zerg supplies itself and empties the camp, then heads out to hit Hills.
I laugh maniacally as the supply disappears from… 5 players? 10? Everyone?

Stealth trap doesn’t seem like nearly as big a deal as this, although I can say that it would encourage the zerg to take different paths.

It would seem to be an idea to break up blob effectiveness. The trap is a non-issue if one person is designated test dummy but the more you have to spread out, the easier it is for smaller groups to catch a tail or split the zerg.

Hickeroar.9734:

I can stand in the middle of an ele’s meteor shower and not die. Let’s buff that. Oh, and I can take a treb shot to the face and not die. And you can smack my character in the face with a sword and I won’t die. I can take a ballista shot to the chest and not die. I can take several zerker thief heartseekers in a row and not die. For that matter I can take pretty much any attack by any class using any weapon in the whole game and not be killed.

Better just buff everything!

Someone get the horses, its a massive strawman. I’m sorry but this sort of reply is just plain dumb.

Reslinal.2359:

I play on NA t1 and have been on both the side that tries to use AC in open field battle (with WM) and the side that tries to destroy opposing zerg (with KnT against TW) that uses AC in open field battle. While it adds some elements in open field battle, it is certainly not as game breaking as some people here tries to make it sound. We lost the field battle where we tried to use AC and won the field battle when the opposing side tried to use AC.

I remember when we tried to open-field balista after their buff (with LotD was probably the only successful heat of the moment use of it), but the fact that you can be completely zoned off of them by a Guardian’s Shelter, from range, made them a waste. They and their operator would be immediately murdered or just CCed to hell and back in open field combat.

To be honest, open field, I’d be more worried about flash shotgun balista than a flash arrow cart.

Silver.9084:

You have to put in mind that many of the arrowcarts are in locations were they cannot be hit/destroyed.

At which point they can only hit the door. If they make it such that it deals little damage to flame rams and golems, then it won’t matter if they cannot be targeted. The ones that can be built on 3rd floor SMC would be rebuffed simply by lowering the range.

As it was, before this patch, even if the siege was manned, golems walking up to your gate was pretty much unstoppable because AC damage to golems was not only nerfed but almost entirely inconsequential. Nerf damage to rams, but golems are another story because that’s literally a “throw money at it” problem and has little to nothing to do with PvP.

UCF Knight.8095:

The supply comes from the supply camps. Or even garrisons sometimes. I know I know, the journey between a hills and garrison waypoint can be extraordinarily long, but it isn’t out of the realm of possibility that teams could just sit in arrow carts for a couple hours in waypointed keeps or towers near a garrison.

You bring up a good point though. The other team could just build four trebs. That is much more fun and tactical than other alternatives.

I know my favorite times in WvW have been spent trebbing hills, and thankfully now with this update, I can share this same experience with nearly every keep, tower, and maybe even supply camp.

You WvW pros are doing a great job of making these noobs see the light. Remember, whoever disagrees with you is only doing so because they don’t have your l33t skills. Other viewpoints and directions for the game are inherently and objectively wrong.

And with that, I’m done with this thread.

If its being trebbed, no waypoint.
If its a tower, no waypoint.
If its being trebbed, the camps are flipped and cut off.
You’re not thinking straight and making up some rather silly nonsense here, aside from dismissing my opinion via condescending ad hominem.

My point on the four trebs was an attempt at tongue in cheek at your rather shortsighted magical conjuring of 400 supply in a flash to rebuild destroyed siege without ever once addressing the fate of the destroyer.

UCF Knight.8095:

Because there is often one arrow cart guarding a tower, and it’s soooo difficult to pop up one, two, or ten more.

Where is this magical 400 supply coming from? Did the treb magically disappear? Why don’t the attackers just build 4 trebs then (since we’re apparently making up supply out of thin air) and get the job done all the fast? Good luck counter trebbing four flash built trebs.

*Made a slight supply amount mistake. Fixed it!

CrazyDuck.4610:

Well on one of my characters I have witnessed this after the nerf. Thief out of stealth backstabs then stunlocked me, killed me and disappeared in about 2-3 seconds when I had over 20k hp. And I have seen the same when thief was on my team. So maybe you should learn to play aswell? Maybe only good thieves can pull it off I don’t know.

What you were hit with is probably the BVenom + d/p combo. The initial spike won’t kill you and you have to react to the stun by cantripping it, and once you have… the thief is done. He has no more initiative and he’s running away.

Hickeroar.9734:

No, instead you have to sit back and treb for hours to make sure you take out all their siege before you can go in.

Try a few shots. Two treb shots will kill an AC, they splash too!

Exaggerating doesn’t really help you…

Bones.5762:

I’m sorry im a little tired so i just skimed through your post, but remember this is a threeway fight too, you also have to defend yourself from the 3rd server, unless they have zero pressence in that map. A t3 keep will have waypoint most likely, so you still have that split interval to waypoint in, making it easy to teleport in with supplies, (remember you have a 30second headstart when flipping ANY camp now too, and it only takes like 20seconds for a group of 5 lvl 80’s to flip a camp. Also because hills kee kitten o deeply sieged up around the walls, nobody will be blockin people from running into it, and if for some reason they have a zerg of 100 and split it just good enough to stop people from going in, theres always people who can chain portal if its really that bad. I would be the people defending hills keep over the people trying to flip hills keep anyday not because its fun but because it’s easier to accomplish.

You can’t assume that players defending hills would just sit idle and do nothing while you iniate your attack, its just ignorant, because if you think of the reverse situation what would you do if you were defending hills keep and they applied these moves, are these the iwin button for flipping hills keep? that move worked “ok” before patch, and with the patch its still just an ok move, that doesn’t have a high success rate in my time spent in wvw.

Admittedly, I’m assuming no assault from the third force that you’re leaving alone since they could just as easily also be sieging Lake and Hills from the south, at which point Hills is SoL. Leave them out since they are oddities that can go either which way and don’t help to serve either side. And so, we ignore them. The ability to portal people into Hills can only be done from the northern cliff inner safely, all other spots require the courtyard or therein region which has been, as I said in theory, lost with the walls. Once inner walls are lost, even that is gone (as well as the waypoint because of where it is placed, easily attacked while players load-in from the port).

As for the waypoint, that’s nice and all but they can only bring supply from outside of the map or by running halfway across the map to a camp that’s not being guarded to get anything. Like I said, the south/Water camp is being harassed if not outright flipped and kept drained. The new buff means the camp is on complete lockdown for 4 minutes and if it started at zero from a drain, its going to take a while to actually supply you with anything. Meanwhile, 0 yaks will ever leave that camp alive. Not to mention that that supply is not enough to keep up with a treb, it will only slow it down and only if its just A treb. Remember the attackers are camped on a camp (because of how Hill’s structured) so they can build as many trebs as they deem necessary. No amount of waypointing every three minutes is going to beat a couple of trebs, forget more.

I am also not assuming they sit idle. It takes ten seconds to start sieging Hills from the NE camp and unless both forces are already engaged in combat somewhere, the owners of the keep are going to come running when those treb shots start flying. It only takes one havoc squad to set up the treb on the camp to start the assault to which the zerg/commander can come to supplement if the defenders turtle/attack the camp. If they don’t… then they will slowly lose their wall. The more times you siege Hills, the less freedom the defenders have to do anything. What are they going to do? Use their supply to golem rush garrison?

A properly defended Dawn’s/Crags/Cliff is harder to take than Hills. It literally has no weakness, and has high ground to everything in every direction. You need to use the sentry treb to take out its siege if you ever plan on taking it: balistas guarding the door and balista build spots, arrow carts guarding the catapult spots, trebs guarding the NE camp treb spot.

Snorcha.7586:

Jetpacks.

Please farm out as many of them as you can, I need that price to drop to at least 60g. I can’t see myself shelling out 120g for a rare.

CrazyDuck.4610:

… A good thief can easily down a single target with 20k+ hp with backstab and keeping them stun locked within seconds, I have witnessed it on both ends of the stick. Learn how to play before commenting.

No, they can’t. Learn math before commenting because PRE Mug nerf their maximum output on the standard d/p spike rotation was ~24k, post nerf its not even remotely close to that (its roughly 10k less damage).

Also: What are cantrips? Use them.

Bones.5762:

Lets assume were playing with people with some intellect here that can actually do more than just act dumb. I’m not saying its a dumb plan, great if you can do it but lets be realistic and say that they also flip other things while your on the move instead of sitting in one keep for hours doing nothing while you flip the whole entire map.

Given the 30 second window for an attack to even trigger flags, they need scouts on all of their property (less people at hills), they need a force flipping camps for supply (less people at hills), and they need to be ready to counter long-ranged trebs on their other properties from easily bunkered down locations (like zerg island, assuming they control Lake).

If the main siege is ongoing at Hills/NE Camp then the majority of both zergs will need to be deployed in that region but the defenders entrenched at the camp have every advantage over Hills defenders: endless supply for trebs, ac, and balista, as well as high ground on the treb spot + NPC support in the camp. That means they can afford to shave off a few people. A few people, especially with +5 supply and any perks therein for supply capacity, can build a catapult on Lake or a treb on zerg island and begin sieging Lake while also either completely flipping or just cutting off the Water and South supply (and draining them when they are going to be lost).

What happens then? Lake only has a couple of scouts at best and if people peel off to defend lake, then their offensive to flip the NE camp will fail, the attackers will continue attacking, and the havoc squad is going to come right back to harass your tower and supply.

Defending is a losing battle if all you do is defend but Hill’s structure basically forces it into such situations because of its proximity to either of the camps, allowing it to be sieged from either direction. Bay has the same problem with Refuge but that one is even worse as it can hit inner but Bay is meant to be the easiest of the three to take. That’s why its:

• Green BL: Blue (middle server) has Bay, Red (weakest server) has Hills.
• Blue BL: Green has Hills, Red has Bay.
• Red BL: Green has Bay, Blue has hills.

Once Hills outer walls are lost, it becomes a whole other ballgame as attackers can siege up the southern entrance and cut off any and all reinforcements that have no other entry point aside from running all the way north and then in. Which are not flaws to either Bay or Garrison, as both have so many inlets that defenders can almost never be cut off.

Bones.5762:

PS: hills can counter treb just about all trebs hitting it if not all trebs.

It can, but all of them have to be placed in balista range to hit certain spots (which cannot be hit by anything short of another balista) or within range of the treb assaulting. The western side has to be placed on the outer walls to counter the treb spot there, and the southern treb counter is placed where it can be easily AoE by an elementalist or two.

Hill’s has outer wall advantage but inner wall disadvantage as trebs/catas that bring down the outer, can bring down the inner too. Garrison is the opposite (assuming that you’ve taken one of its adjacent towers which is a third of the fight to even remotely start contesting it) as it can be trebbed on outer but there is no way to hit inner with safe trebs. Bay is a whole other story.

Bones.5762:

ammayhem.5962:

Cap everything else in the BL and let them have Hills?

lets not act dumb.

Thats not actually dumb… especially if Hills gets zero supply while being trebbed.

Lance.5892:

Well, I can’t speak for what you’ve heard, but the people who’ve talked to me seem to have a strong belief that the ACs are overpowered and that ANET will eventually reverse it. I for one don’t share that belief that ANET cares enough to reverse it. But that’s a personal opinion of mine.

Sadly anecdotal evidence is about as worthless as can be.

I’ve heard everything from: great :: to :: fine :: to :: meh :: to :: maybe a bit too much :: to :: woah :: to :: q.q too strong. I’ve heard people say: “Hills is impossible to take!” and then give up, only for Hills to be taken shortly after and numerous times after that.

Tone down the range by 500 ticks (to give catapults breathing room, to prevent room top/SMC top siege from hitting ground level) and I say we’re golden. As it stands when I blast open a door, I’m more worried about twelve balista greeting me at a choke than twelve arrow carts.

Lance.5892:

except the treb will be destroyed by 3rd floor sm trebs before it can even fire one shot

Aneu.1748:

You do understand there is a place to plant a Treb on the 3rd floor of SM that is impossible to hit right? Which has a higher vantage point that can hit any treb in range of those arrowcarts…

Except that is nonsense as that treb cannot possibly cover every direction, nor are there a hundred trebs to cover every possible direction, and there are about an infinite number of angles from which you can be attacked with trebs to take out your arrow carts.

Flash build a treb already aimed where it needs to be aimed and fire it, even if you only get off one or two shots, the damage is already done. (Likely, given the slow rotating speed of treb, you’ll get more than just two shots off and thats more than enough for a pile of arrow carts.)

Alekty.8706:

Sounds like somebody doesn’t know how to place arrowcarts, don’t worry someday you’ll learn and you’ll understand the amount of brokeness :P

I know how to place arrow carts…

Ralathar.7236:

Honestly hills lord room with properly setup arrow carts and 20-30 defenders should be able to hold out vs nearly any size force. Even both other servers alternating rushing.

You can build AC out and to the side of the lord’s room which cannot be targeted from the inside because of the length of the tunnel. You can also put a balista on the tunnel which cannot be reached by the Altar balista, and just drop exploding shots inside to thin out numbers.

As it is, you cannot get people back into hills lord room once they die because of how its set up.

loseros.5912:

They were no more than 15 and we were like 40-50. I’m serious with this post. If they counter treb me everywhere, there’s othing i can do… catas rams and golems are useless nowadays…

Considering others have done it (as I just sighted above and against more than 15 players on defense)… what more do you want from us? Go ask JQ’s SF and EMP how they do it because they very certainly can and have.

KazAk.3269:

U r fine by taking 10k-25k damge every sec ??? wow m8 u are so strong and op. I think anet need to nerf u before the ac.

Consider:

• Taking out the siege (just as you do with PoO and cannons) before placing rams?
• Rams can be placed far away from the gate where AC directly behind the gate cannot hit them.
• AC directly behind the gate can be targeted from outside… so kill them.

Alekty.8706:

Yeah improved ram health is a good idea, still need some love for the the guy using it taking 10k damage a second from the 3 arrowcarts :P

Seems pretty fair from the PoV of the guy trying to man the oil or the cannons. :P

loseros.5912:

Well that’s mainly PvDoor… i’m asking a well defended one. I mean, the only way to do this is to catch them offguard and rush them…

So you want to take Hills with all 80 players inside of it? You can’t take Garrison or Bay with such odds either… so what exactly are you looking for here? An “I WIN” button on hills?

sostronk.8167:

Actually TBH I think you might be right about this. From what I have seen the rams do take too much damage from AC. Im fine with the damage players are receiving, but the rams just seem go down a little too quick.

They may well buff rams but then you kinda have an issue with the rather massive 30 second timer. Then again, if its undefended completely… you probably didn’t deserve to hold it.

loseros.5912:

How??? Was the enemy outnumbered? Did defenders had so kany sieges? And where them with the siege weapons inside hills?

Depends on the case?

JQ took it from us because we got caught with our pants down and a bunch of superior AC on inner didn’t do kitten to people who knew how to burst them down and then cata down the inner side wall.

Kryyg.8576:

When your enemy is sleeping.

It has happened twice in T1 since patch, both times no enemy present. Even 5 defenders can keep off anything off hills now.

NA Prime time is not when people are asleep.

But thanks for belittling the efforts of SoR and JQ for taking back their keeps from BG.

Alekty.8706:

It is not the arrowcarts that are the problem! It is the rams and golems, they are useless they keep dieing when they are on the gate, as well as the men manning them.

please fix this bug asap.

They gave rams a 30 second window of doing their thing to an undefended structure, I think that was the idea for balance. They’ll still melt a gate in 10 seconds…

LilMcGinley.3890:

You don’t…..

Tell that to WM who flipped a T3, waypointed hills.

Or JQ, who did the same to T2 waypointed hills.

Jackie.1829:

And patches like this remove my desire to take any of this seriously because even if this change is reverted the damage is done. Whoever is in charge of wvw as it stands doesnt actually know what they are doing.

I dont need to bully anybody into accepting my opinion, it concerns me not what some random pug like Miff thinks.

Why do you, first of all, condescend someone’s opinion because they (may or may not be) a “pug”? What relevance does ad hominem have in this? I’ve played this game since launch and I run with the biggest guilds in BG but I don’t join them, does that make me a “pug” who’s opinion is worthless too?

The fact of the matter is we don’t all agree on the severity of the change: I think it’s a bit over the top in range because it can reach catapults on even terrain which makes it hard for them to hit walls, which is their only function. Yes, old strategies now don’t work but the damage, as it is, is of beta-era levels which people learned to work around before it was nerfed and the meta shifted into a state that it was in until a few days ago where attackers needed do nothing more than throw enough bodies at a gate to kill it while brushing off rather irrelevant superior AC fire that could be healed away with enough stacked blast finishers on water fields.

Are we also going to nerf balista for what they can do if used well in chokes (especially their #4 skill which can down 20+ people in a single volley)? You can’t treb baslista (can’t counter them in anyway as they have more range short of treb if elevated) that are lined and waiting on the inner chokes of garrison. People throw around 12 AC on a wall, what about 12 balista waiting behind a door? What are you going to do? Run in?

Lance.5892:

Not up to me how my fellow guildies are behaving. I haven’t done any trolling or joking around thus far. I’ve given thought out responses of my own opinion, and if you don’t like it, that’s fine with me.

I am not saying anything about your specific opinion, I’m talking about the kitten your guildies are doing which is very, very much impacting my opinion of your guild and, therein, my opinion in general. I’d be all for having a sensible debate (and I’ve been in this and other threads doing just that) but nonsense like that really ruins the mood and any desire I might have (and you’d better believe the dev’s too) of talking at all.

Lance.5892:

take a look at eu scores in T1
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups#EU
Tier 1 Desolation

with T2 servers purposely avoiding T1, how much of that + the arrowcart patch could you take? Especially when an entire server (Vizuna) was already known for sitting in towers/keeps and manning 50 million arrow carts

Note that it’s been happening for quite a long while.

Given the absolutely juvenille nature that your members are going on about, at this very moment, spamming the forum…

…Its as if you wanted your opinion to look childish/worse off or something with these antics.

You have three idiots spamming the forum as if we cared about them in some great way. No, we don’t, and it paints your guild poorly.

Hills cannot build a safe counter treb, every single one of its defensive trebs can be balista-ed or arrow carted or just AoE-ed (unlike Bay, which can build trebs that can be countered only by other trebs).

Counter trebs:

• Vista to counter camp: Balista or AC from below.
• West side to counter camp hill: Must be built on walls of inner to hit the western hill (safely) but a treb on the western hill can be built far enough away to still hit the wall without being in range of the treb.
• South to counter camp vista: Treb must be built on the overlook of the outer walls, it can be hit by AC and AoE very easily.

Offensive trebs (be sure to remove the mortars first):

• North-East camp cliff can hit walls, is right next to a camp and can have defense or more trebs built effectively endlessly.
• North-East cliff can hit walls with cata, treb can clear the northern gate and walls and hit inner.
• Western cliff can hit walls from far enough away that it cannot be countered from inner and a treb has to be built on outer walls, if built close enough it can hit outer and inner from the same spot.
• Southern Supply Camp Vista can hit the door from relative safety with only a treb being able to counter but that treb must be built in the open to reach. The offensive treb is built on a very easily defendable choke and is adjacent to a camp yet again.

Once hill is compromised and cut off from supply, the attackers can siege it up, preventing reinforcements as they are forced to access either through north or south and can easily be cut off.

I had this playing last night, good times and the game is surprisingly fun to watch.

Zoel.9154:

Zikory.6871:

You guys are silly. Rams and Golems are just as useful as before! You just can’t run up to any gate and flash build them. Try building some counter siege to clear it out a bit. Over all the AC’s (even though I don’t fully agree with the damage) made people have to try for towers.

uhhh if you made catapults and trebs to counter ac’s why wouldn’t you just use those to open the wall?

You already made those.

You’d really waste more supply on a structure you’re already opening?

Time. Rams bring down a gate faster than trebs take down walls or doors.

graverr.6473:

Gab Superstar.4059:

elderan.2638:

You do realize that defenders can place AC’s so that they can hit a door but cannot not be hit by ANY attacking siege. This plus the damage boost means gate attacks with rams and golems get utterly decimated.

That’s not entirely correct. You can place rams really far away from the gate which makes them invulnerable to the Arrow Carts placed behind it.

Yeah cuz rams don’t need to be in melee range to hit at all.

They don’t… actually.

As much as I like the changes, I think increasing the supply necessary to build a AC and toning down a bit the range are totally comprehensible nerfs.

I’m thinking somewhere along the lines of half of the buffed range from the perk, so that they can’t reach max-range catas on flat terrain. Put superiors at 60 supply, keep regulars as they are since they aren’t nearly as much of an issue.

I think the biggest problem is in the supply, the jump is too small for the benefit (and probably the case for balista as well when paired with AC).

PredatoR.5247:

its been a few days and Anet hasn’t posted an official response.
it can’t be too hard, kitten my little sister could do it.

“we are sorry, we are working on a solution”

hearing that would let me know the genius’ read the topic.

It may well be because they are seeing how it affects the game? I mean, I think they need to tone down either range or damage but how or to what degree I’m not quite sure yet.

Acotje.5689:

naphack.9346:

1 treb could kill all of these within 4-5 minutes, then you’d be starved of supplies while your opponents build arrowcarts to prevent you from entering/leaving the tower while their treb kills the walls.

(Siege wars 2)

To bad my treb was faster and my aim was better

You do know that ruins trebs cannot be countered from the low lying tower right?

Kryyg.8576:

You are ticking at 500ppt, obviously we aren’t around. Less chest thumping, enjoy your win, but you took advantage of some internal re-organization along with a lot of overplaying on your part. I mean from the SS’s your oceanic crew is still on. That’s just silly, it’s coming close to a 18 hour day for some BG.

Your entire asian crew is still on as well. We are well into Euro, almost to NA in a couple hours.

The biggest change in the scores, actually, seems to be because of the drastic change to how encounters work in WvW with the buff to arrow carts (and do an extent the still present buff to balista). People are pulling long hours but the biggest thing seems to be that old tactics are starting to be met with failure where before they were tried and true.

• Running 80 people up to a door and PvDooring: Doesn’t work anymore.
• Flash build fifty rams to melt the gate: Doesn’t work anymore, can’t flash build and even if you do, the rams will be melted by X arrow carts.
• Getting the door/wall down means victory!: Doesn’t work anymore, the chokes are death traps when three arrow carts and a couple of ballista can guard the door.

I was pretty much watching a case study of this yesterday as I was playing. Some people still (even us as we walked into Sunny to be greated with death) were in auto-pilot with tactics and getting met with a volley of death (to the knee). Tactics were forced to change. You now need to pre-emptively take out siege if a target is defended but, conversely, you do not need to build counter siege if there isn’t a soul around because we’re provided a 30 second window of action in which we can flash build rams and we can flash melt the gate (JQ did this to our Hills on BGBL). Golem rushing when spotted (as SoR demonstrated) doesn’t work no matter how many golems you throw at the gate. (I don’t know how many times I walked up a tower we had defended to find that the attackers had, for some reason, built arrow carts rather than rams on an undefended tower… with paper doors. In the time it took us to find out, they could have melted the door and taken the tower.)

Everyone is running around like idiots to a degree because, all of a sudden, old tactics don’t work as well as they used to (in particular because you can’t just throw bodies at the problem anymore). Encounters on the inners of keeps are going to need to be much more mindful of flash built siege (as in, the door going down should not mean everyone has zero supply and that siege is now done and done), bleeding a keep dry to prevent flash built defense is going to be much more important, and those yaks are going to mean a lot more when a single delivery means up to three more AC for the defenders.

And no, Hills is not impregnable as JQ and BG have demonstrated by flipping it back and forth. Bay is still Bay. And Garrison isn’t meant to be flipped because 30 golems walked up to its backside.

Walking up to a gate and smashing it down just doesn’t fly anymore and keeps are harder to take in a straight blitz if guarded (which is arguably how it should be… because before 10 defenders vs. 80 attackers amounted: Call for help, curl up and die as the door melts in 10 seconds to rams and golems.).

Esoteric.5490:

~snip~

Riven, you should be studying!… or something.

So… at the end of the day, I’m still torn on the AC change. (Though cata’s need a buff on range because on flat terrain they cannot be built outside of AC range to hit a wall.)

Parisalchuk.9230:

silvermember.8941:

BlahTeeb.3254:

Branskins.9752:

BlahTeeb.3254:

Who will be here when all is done and said? The PvPers… so you should probably start catering to them… as in implementing features that existed in GW1 years ago.

I don’t necessarily think that is true at all. I think right now more people are still PvEing than PvPing 8 months after release. Also PvE is still more popular in GW1.

Instead, they should strike a balance between the two, not cater to one or the other

Obviously, look at the mess that PvP is. You think people Will go to conventions, swarm by the thousands, to watch someone do a dungeon run? Me neither.
PvP tends to outlast PvE… that’s the general idea.

Even at the height of gw1 popularity, PvE was what kept the game running. After prophecies they became shifting focus to PvE.

I disagree with that statement. In fact they had to add heros because of the difficulty of finding people to actually play with while running HA was still going strong. After EotN HA and GvG is what kept that game alive, not the speed farmers who would gladly have quit had their runs been nerfed (just like they did as the made UW harder and harder and began to nerf dungeons).

Your logic is astoundingly awful. Heroes/henchmen were a treatment to spreading the PvE population far too thinly over three continents. HA, conversely, was a hub. Compare all of the PvP hub zones to just Kamadan, ToA, LA, and Farm Spot X, and you’ll realize which population was monumentally larger.

Parisalchuk.9230:

BlahTeeb.3254:

Parisalchuk.9230:

BlahTeeb.3254:

One year from now, ArenaNet will allow you to watch recorded games while having a nearly limitless count for observers. They will claim this to be the beginning and foundation for there highly competitive e-sport tournaments.
One year from now is too late. You had the foundations when you built GW1. What happened? This spectator mode is useless. Literally…. no one wants to watch a shout cast from a game that clearly does not stick to a competitive nature. Look at all the competitive players who transfers from a game to its sequel , like StarCraft, Dota/LoL. Then look how many competitive players from GW1 are playing in GW2.
The story in GW2 lasts no more than a month. You can sugar coat all you want, but it really doesn’t last more than a few weeks. Who will be here when all is done and said? The PvPers… so you should probably start catering to them… as in implementing features that existed in GW1 years ago.

Im with you but people are going to jump on you for agreeing that pivotal features in GW1 should have been included in this game. In PvE, sure that maybe makes sense, different game. In PvP however you shouldnt be trying to reinvent the wheel when it comes to tools required to play and observe that kind of content.

I’m not saying everything should carry over from GW1. I’m saying, there are features in GW1 that are superior to what exists in GW1. Its simply that simple… There really isn’t any excuse…
That game is was more competitive than what this game currently is. Unfortunately, that will probably be the case until GW3 launches…

I agree with you. It makes no sense that various features where not chosen to be carried over from game to game. Things like GvG and a global observer mode. There truly is no excuse to have left these features off the development board when designing how they wanted their engine to work. And now that the engine was developed we get to hear how now its too complicated to do. Thats not an excuse to deploy substandard features.

Its as if you haven’t even the basic knowledge of programming R&D, or that your needs/desires are not the center of the universe.

ensoriki.5789:

What is the delay between spectating and in-game, is there any?

Wasn’t it stated as currently in real time but open to change if it leads to abuse.

Grimwolf.7163:

I wasn’t talking about the full stealth combo most people would aim for, I was only talking about Backstab because that’s what he was talking about. He said that if the Thief is already in stealth (meaning all they have is Backstab), then if they catch you you’re dead.
Your math makes things sound worse than it really is also, since you don’t seem to be taking any Armor into account.

I did take armor into account, read the preface. You can scale the values by making a multiplier based on ratios of armor values and taking into account how damage is reduced by armor increases (ie. the benefit from the difference).

It doesn’t make it sound “worse than it really is”, that was what it was (still is). A pointlessly bad spec for tPvP and completely irrelevant in WvW aside from ganking wanderers, its only place was in sPvP for glory farming. It is also probably the main spec of XY% (insert random statistic) of all thieves but said XY% of all thieves also only use their shortbow for Shadow Shot and never spec in Lotus Poison, so…

BenL.5312:

I personally wish that keeps would be easier to take down or siege equipment to do more damage. At the moment, it is ridiculously hard and almost impossible at times to take down a T3 keep.

Its supposed to be hard but with the nerf to blocking trebs, it won’t be as hard if its bunkered down. You’re not supposed to be able to easily flip a T3 keep, and you’re not really supposed to be able to beat the home team in their Garrison unless its a 2v1.

Magnetron.5823:

They wont close it, but they wont reply on it too because it doesn’t have positive feedback. I have a question about the skill lag problem and they don’t have an answer.

They don’t reply because they’ve already answered the question time and again in the past, and repeating it for the 100th time isn’t going to change anything. Just look at this forum, every day the same post is made because usage of the search function eludes people. People may as well just C&P the answer from the older threads and save everyone time.

We’ll get an answer when they actually do something about it or figure out how to fix it, save just taking down all of WvW for several days to put up new servers.

Liquid.9672:

“Blackgate is dead. RIP Blackgate.”

Blackgate is dead! Long live Blackgate!

:D

Grimwolf.7163:

What do you mean “dead”? Backstab doesn’t do that much damage. Not even a glass cannon vs a glass cannon would lose more than half health without something freaky interfering, like up-leveling or huge Might stacks.

That’s not right; the current combo time is 1.5 seconds (on armor less than 1900/16000 health, ie glass cannons, scale it appropriately with multipliers for your armor/health value):

• Black Powder ~= 1k on crit
• Steal ~= 5.5k on crit + condition on target
• Heartseeker ~= 3.75k on crit + condition + >50% health; 6.6k on crit + condition + <50% health. (Puts you into stealth.)
• Backstab ~= 8.5k on crit + condition + >50% health; 10.2k on crit + condition + <50% health.
• Proc::Lightning Strike ~= 1.5k condition + >50% health; 1.8k condition + <50% health.
• Total = 25,000 damage.

Changing Mug to deal no criticals means that you will never drop the target below 50% for the Heartseeker/Backstab which means that, doing the same math again but without the crit nor the <50% health conditions, you’re left with:

• Total = 15,000 damage (if Proc::Lightning Strike for <50% health on HS/Backstab -> 19,000).

The mug nerf is roughly a 10,000 damage nerf barring very, very fortunate procing on Lightning Strike. Thieves will, as of April 30th, be unable to burst down even glass cannon builds within a rotation.

rchu.8945:

why would stealth remain if the thief misses due to out of range? Thieves should know better about their skill range, if they choose to attack randomly, they should be punished for it. Stealth is already a big advantage, how much leeway are you going to give to thieves to remain in stealth?

Probably because thieves are tied for the lowest health pool in the game and built from sticks and rubberbands. Stealth will drop on miss/block when thieves can either kitten out boons/cleanses/heals/invuln like an Elementalist or abuse Protection/Aegis/Virtue Healing like a Guardian, or some combination therein (toned down of course).

They have their only advantage in stealth, take that away and you pretty much don’t have anything left over for the class… except dodging and infinite weakness.

Advent.6193:

Keep-jacking depends heavily on the defender’s manpower and timing. The bit I’d like to see changed would be that back door on Garrison. Why that doesn’t upgrade with all of the other Keep entrances is beyond me.

When Garri T3s that is pretty much the only way to breach inner if the keep is defended. N and NW inner are deaths traps and no part of ramparts cannot be safely reached from inner. Watergate is the only quick entry to break a front yard stalemate but it comes with the most brutal death trap/choke in the game as well as completely unreachable defensive siege locations.

In T1, taking a T3 keep will more often than not requiring both servers sieging the defender. 1v1 on T3 garrison is almost unwinnable.

Grimwolf.7163:

And everyone knows, when a Thief stealths, you just throw your hands up into the air, stand around and let it happen.
What else are you supposed to do? Critical thinking is for nerds.

A warrior’s burst is contained in Bull’s -> 100B combo, both of which are linear attacks.
A thief’s burst (soon to be past tense) came from the Mug/Backstab combo which occured either from teleportation or stealth.

Neither was good in tPvP, neither is good for anything more than catching bad players off guard or forcing a cantrip, but the thief’s (former) spike was a completely different piece of crap from the warrior’s laughable 100b combo. (Of course people will still complain all the same.)

With mug effectively de-fanged, the gc-spec is pretty much dead on arrival because Mug was the defining trait of the build (and an overpowered one at that for only 10 investment). You won’t be able to get that massive 7k+ spike out of Mug without which Backstab won’t be anything more than a startling annoyance to most classes.

Not that it matters, WvW or tPvP, the only weapon worth anything in the thief’s armory is the Short Bow with Lotus Poison. That’s likely not going to change so…

silkysoft.6749:

Can we get movable siege as well or repackagable siege at least? ESO is going to have it, why can’t we?

Just because something has X, doesn’t make X inherently beneficial. As it is, siege needs to be placed well and thoughtfully, one would say that this is a good thing. No one wants Zerg X to build an array of balista, catas, arrow carts, and then golems and slowly march their way to your keep. What are you going to do to fight that? Slowly march at them with your own armada of siege? (This undermines the entirety of the supply mechanic in the game, siege is fixed such that supply must be mindfully used and siege mindfully placed. Allow siege to move and you begin to undermine this balance.)

As for packaging, probably not a bad idea but most siege is placed and never meant to be moved or removed. The only siege I can even think of needing that ability are rams… but who the hell cares about rams? (Also, you open up a can of worms on trolling. Player Y tosses siege, players build it, and he then removes it… wasting everyone’s supply.)

tagnut.8621:

Seriously is someone blowing the thief dev on a regular basis? So they get to spend 50% of the time invisible and immune to all damage whilst pumping out insane dps? Really? Really? 4s revealed reverted to 3s? Should be 10s min.

I have this strange suspicion that you have no idea what you’re talking about.

MiLkZz.4789:

You mean you were scared of the 350dmg you got returned for every 4-8k you dealt?
Nei, this patch is a double buff for thiefs, eventho they still deal 7k dmg (in 1 hit) against 3.4k armor. Which is rediculous.

I’m speaking in tPvP, and such numbers would require gc-spec which would, against any competent team, amount to accomplishing nothing because bunkers would shrug you off and you’d (with what would be laughable health) die to retal and their mediocre damage… while being murdered by players who aren’t stupid enough to not cantrip/dodge your mug/stun/backstab/etc.

No one runs 4-8k gc specs in tPvP. Mug is overpowered as balls, though.

Also not sure why you deduced that I play thief in PvP, I play an engineer and guardian in tPvP.

MiLkZz.4789:

And yea retaliation was a great counter against rangers and thiefs.

It wasn’t just a counter against thieves, it was a shut down. Thieves (in PvP) could do almost nothing against retal upkeep mesmers and guardians aside from the 40s~ cooldown strip on steal or running what has been, for a while, subpar s/x. And neither of those could keep up with the re-app rate that the aforementioned classes had for retaliation.

TonyDiMeglio.5461:

Yeah this game just took a nose dive and the patch hasnt even been in effect. I am looking at other games already.

Except this is one of the better patches for class balance and mechanics balance if all of these things actually go through…