Guild Wars 2

Astralporing.1957:

Vinceman.4572:

Pick a necro/mesmer on your side = gg.

Or better yet, change guard to necro, in which case the group won’t need to assign anyone jyst to fix problems your presence introduces.

No way, a guard is helpful in fractals. Along with a necro and a mes it’s very relaxed to play with.

Exactly 1.4k?
Because PS on rezzing will have 1.4k and the aggro can change.

Killed her yesterday with a chrono of 1.5k toughness. No problems at all.

Pick a necro/mesmer on your side = gg.

The Zealous Templar.3861:

Definition of relevant: closely connected or appropriate to the matter in hand.

And you say that the re-empowering of Lazarus by members of the white mantle that have likely done so against the wishes of their confessor (Caudecus) is 100% irrelevant. By all means defend having part of the main story in a raid, I’m fine with that, disagreeing on relevance however is just a tad child-ish (arguing for the sake of it) in this case tbh.

Fact is, you don’t miss anything if you haven’t played raids. See Ranael/Bobby above. You also don’t get any further inside information or anything else. So, there is absolutely no point in saying if you don’t raid you are excluded from the important story line or miss a thing. It’s just no true to hold such a point.
Also, it has nothing to do with a childish argumentation. If there isn’t anything to discuss I don’t need to throw in arguments.
Again, everything that had to be said was told by Bobby. If some guys want to nitpick about tiny fine details, do so. But this is a thing I can’t take seriously.

hardy.7469:

Everything that happened in there is directly relevant and vital to the story of the LS… Okay.

No, it isn’t. It’s the other way round. The raid lore is completely irrelevant. 100% irrelevant.

Everything else of your post can be neglected.

Just don’t run into the room before the npc’s. As it has been before. The announced fix in the patch doesn’t work properly.

Bye bye then.

-.-

BS!
And there is still no lack of reading comprehension, stop the insults!

Null field is a very useful ability and no waste at all. Boon of corruption is also fine. Why not using them if there is an instability like this? Especially at 100 they are gold worth. This is what good players call adaptation to encounters. You still have enough place for 2 of your most loved abilities.

CptAurellian.9537:

Besides: If your entire group knows their stuff, it’s little problem. As soon as you take a random guy with you, it’s a lottery.

Again: I pug fractals with randoms every fricking day if I have the time. No problems with retal whatsoever. The biggest issues are toxic egomaniacs nothing else.
Slowly I understand why you and others are facing problems. Just copying full dps metabuilds that are the optimum for organized groups won’t lead to the fastest success. They are a basis or a starter not the gold standard!

CptAurellian.9537:

No kitten, Sherlock. In your brilliant post, you forgot only one factor: boon thieves steals up to 5 boons per player, so you typically have 5+ on the boss. Teach me how to rip “all of them of[f] within a second” by just autoattacking. As for the rest of your post, I guess demanding some reading comprehension would clearly be too much.

No kitten, Watson.
I don’t need reading comprehension because your problem is just a theoretically one. A mesmer has enough abilities – I posted them – to handle this alone. The “up to 5 boons” means UP TO, not always 5 and if you have a proper look onto the enemies they rarely have more than 3 boons up.

I agree this only counts for players knowing how to T4. Random stupid guy with no plan will struggle that’s for sure.

I repeat: If you know your sh_t retaliation is 0.0% a problem in T4.

CptAurellian.9537:

I don’t play a necro, but the mesmer part is utter nonsense in reality. Yes, you can be lucky, have your boons including reta stolen, finish the AA chain instantly afterwards and accidentally remove reta instead of the alternative boons. Some people also win in the lottery, I’ve heard.

You are talking nonsense. nothing else, seriously!

Remember: The instability has a 20-second cooldown.

Mesmer autoattack sword which is the standard weapon on mesmer, you don’t switch it:
“Mind Spike: Stab a foe and rip a boon off of them.”
This applies every third hit. Due to enemies not having many boons, all of them are ripped of within a second. You just have to press 1111111111111111111.

Necro autoattack scepter which is the standard weapon on necro, you don’t switch it:
“Putrid Curse: Boons converted to conditions: 1”
This applies every third hit. Due to enemies not having many boons, all of them are ripped of within a second. You just have to press 1111111111111111111.

Also:
Mesmer – Null field – Create a field of energy that rips boons from foes and cures conditions on allies – 32s cooldown (can be shortened by mes as we all know)
Necro – Boon of corruption – Target area pulses – converting boons on foes into conditions – 40s cooldown (can be shortened by mes as we all know)

The rest you are writing can be disregarded.
It’s enough to have a mes so a guard and the blast finishers won’t lead to a group wipe.

That only happens if you are playing with very bad players! The risk is only there with ppl not knowing how to play their class.

As I mentioned before I haven’t been wiping with a guard in my pug group since I can remember playing fractals.

Astralporing.1957:

Guardian retal applications tend to be party-wide.

Doesn’t matter, I think he meant the boon thief has a cooldown. This cooldown is chilling enough.

Astralporing.1957:

Not really, unless you specifically build for it, in which case you nerf your damage significantly just to carry one class.

Yes, really. You don’t have to rebuild mesmer or mecro. Every 3rd hit with standard weapons (Sword & Scepter) will remove a boon. The problem is more – I see it every week in Pugs on VG – that the mes is not consequently autoattacking the enemy when no “perfect meta super mega rotation” is needed. Just spam 1 to remove boons, and rotate while the cooldown is active.
Also Mesmer has another ability to remove boons, so does Necro. You only have to have players that use their brains and not running all 3 T4 Fractals with exact the same abilities in every corner.

Astralporing.1957:

The main point is not that you’d wipe, because you can avoid that. The main point is that a guard in fract 80+ party means your party overall effectiveness just went down. Hard.

Haven’t been wiping due to a guard since I can remember. On the other hand I always have a boon stripping class with me (always myself as necro) which is not very uncommon because many players are playing condi necro in high fractals and there is almost always a mesmer around.

People exaggerating again with this topic. I guess it’s just a matter of practice and training. I rarely have trouble or problems and I only pug fracs (at most together with a friend). The biggest issues there are players not knowing the content (kind of rare nowadays) or some players thinking their way to go is the best and trying to discipline others when there obviously is no need for a.k.a. being toxic. E.g. for a single dolyak signet during the door part in dredge fractal where no fight is necessary (although I wouldn’t use it either ^^) and other small irrelevant things that aren’t slowing the runs.
Come on, every T4 fractal is easy, stop being a jerk.

Ohoni.6057:

Look, if you have actual fresh ideas of how to advance this topic, my ears are open. If all you have to say is “well you have quite a few people disagreeing with you here,” well that doesn’t matter in the slightest.

We don’t need to advance this topic because we raiders are done here. You alone want easy mode + rewards, we don’t. It’s as simple as it is.
Good thing for me is that you are the only one having such wishes and I highly doubt, no, I’m 100% sure, Anet won’t change anything about the actual accessibility and reward structure of raids in the next 6 months.

Guys, I think we should stop arguing with Ohoni here. The opposed views are made and clear. It’s just running in circles reading this stuff, that stuff and completely unreasonable analogies. Oh yeah, let us all use less analogies because they mostly don’t fit!

I’ve met enough people in pugs over the time now to realize that there are many players enjoying raids right now and they have never thought they will. Ohoni is one special snowflake never willing to try and definitely never will enjoy raids. Sure, he isn’t alone out there but he represents a minority not even close to the amount of the raid playerbase. I respect that but on the other hand I don’t respect the wanting of rewards without putting effort in certain things, here raids.

Where was Ohoni when Liadri and friends were present during Jenna’s birthday? Where is the anger about T4 fractals giving the best rewards because I doubt Ohoni is able to do them. Ohoni would also cry for change if Anet would put a new armor connected to run Arah P4 several times. He is not like many of others who will grumble for a while and then start to get things going or just leave them because we don’t care or don’t see it as an important thing to have fun in a game.

That’s why I think we should stop discussing here and especially exile these wall of texts leading to 0.0% nothing.

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

As a necro main this is depressing, jesus christ…

Amen, it hurts to watch those runs. I hope someone with a skill level like Sesshi or slightly lower would invest some time to blow up those records I’ve seen over the last days.
Roul and others to the rescue, maybe? Probably Je suis Noel…

sephiroth.4217:

I finally managed to almost be apart of a raid but I was booted from the group because my DPS was only 7-9k….

While it’s very polite and reasonable to ask for improvement on your Rev here in the forums I am surprised that you got booted due to your dps because nobody except you knows how much you are doing. All others can’t see your numbers and I’ve never heard of any groups to tell them your dps numbers. Very strange…

No Blaeys, you are not. Some day you also should accept that there are things not to be discussed any longer.
You are stepping into every thread spreading your opinion just to have a controversal thing going on. That leads to nothing.
Over the last two weeks everything was said about lore, different modes, untrue inaccessibility of raids and way more.
We are done here, nothing but circling over circling and even statemens from Arenanet developers weren’t read properly or just denied as to be untrue. Bobby told all we need to know and maybe you should accept what he was talking. Period.

Huck.1405:

Some of us, who cant seem to ever get into a group would like to get some of that Dungeon armor.

As it was advised to you, open an own offer at the LFG since you don’t have to wait longer than 10 minutes to fill up. At the moment there is no reason you cannot make it into a group. Dungeon people have no requirements these days because dungeons are easy like they never have been before.
A guild is also helping here, you should ask in yours. Usually there is always at least one guild member helping out. With 2 peeps in the lfg it’s even more easier to get the rest of the players into the group.
You can also start the path with a friend since the first parts of a dungeon are no problem to duo even without high skill. Just give it a try, it doesn’t hurt.

No one said that if you can’t faceroll fracs, raids aren’t for you.

My point still stands: T4 Fractals are easy if you know the mechanics which you should have learned on your way leveling up. The rest is knowing your class, stay together and just throw in the things your class is able to do + pressing the damage button.
Anyone who denies that can’t be taken seriously.

Raids aren’t significantly harder than some of the T4 fractals. It’s just the missing practice at this time because raids are “kinda new”.
Have a look at the SC guilds, they clear all wings in no time. Yeah, they are skilled. But I also have friends and others in guilds also clearing all 3 on Monday before evening. They have no speed clear players inside, they are no special kind of players or anything else. It was just practice over practice in a span of several weeks, not even months.

I myself can clear any boss if the group is aware of the mechanics. I don’t need any practice although I’ve never raided in a static group except when Spirit Vale came out and we tried VG – I have to admit we were totally new and had issues but only for 2 days. I’m far away of being a high skilled player it’s all practice and execute the things you have to do with your class to get a boss down.
So I personally think the transition from T4-Fractals to raids isn’t very high. Yes it is a bit, but the difference is suitable: From dungeons to fractals to raids.

Torolan.5816:

*Spoken like a true elitist. True for maybe 10-20% of all GW2 players, complete nonsense for anyone else.

Really? You really believe that T4 fractals are a challenge for 80-90% of the playerbase?
You are definitely wrong here! The LFG is full with T4 groups, most of them are without requirements, only have the proper amount of AR to go with.

For the encounters: You can likely afk melee and/or range mobs/bosses there if you are able to play your class. You don’t need to be a good player. I pug them every day with very little problems. The groups facing problems are the ones where some players have actually very little experience AND refuse to adjust their playstyle (not builds!) and are ignorant in chat if somebody is making a good hint or tries to lead the group.
The AND is very crucial here because if you only have 0 clue about the fractals you can literally stand next to the exp guys and just do dmg.

Just play with the group and listen to commands of others! This is group content (as long as you don’t lowman it) so play team-wise!

Additionally you have the lower fracs everyone should go through. I recommend this and I highly doubt that someone is starting fracs with T4 ! This fact is resulting in the situation that EVERY player should know the basic principle of every fractal when he reaches the T4 level.

There is also a “trick”: Pick 1-3 Condi Reapers with you and the whole thing is a cakewalk!

Maybe you just haven’t tried T4, I had some people in my friend list too saying they were too hard some months ago. Some day I could convince them to join us and they were impressed how easy it was.

I don’t like it if my food has been warmed-up. Does that sound better to ya?

Raid content = raid content. Play raids if you want to experience it. It’s not hard.

Fractal content = Fractal content. Different stuff and a lil bit easier. We need new content here not recycled stuff. Recycled stuff is boring as kitten.

Stop saying an opinion is baseless if there are people who just think that some ideas like this are not well-thought or stupid. We don’t have to think for yourself, that’s your work.

Yes, I have but I’m tired to discuss it here. Makes no sense for me. Too much time input for being a really important thing. Must be enough to say here that I am thinking your idea is stupid.

Also, we get a fractal after they readopted fractal design. It is not like Rednik said with 1 new frac every 3 years. They had stopped developing them for a reason way before HoT (we don’t know why) and now we will definitely see more new fracs within a shorter timespan, that’s for sure.

Worst idea so far concerning raids. We just need new fractals and we get one next week.

Rednik.3809:

Nice, now we have a self-proclaimed “elite” who asks to deny other players from “their” content. I guess this post should be used as a perfect reference in any future discussions.

You are welcome. The hyperbole was also directed to you.

Cristalyan.5728:

Well, I want to ask you Vinceman: Why do you think the LS is ONLY for the rest of the players (the non raiders). Do you have any official statement of the developers regarding the LS3 claiming that they will deny the right to play this content for raiders? On the other hand I saw such a statement from the devs. telling us that the raids were DESIGNED with the idea in mind to make it non accessible to most of the players.

I haven’t said anything you have written above. I am just very pleased that there is content Ohoni and others aren’t enjoying at all plus that they feel excluded.
I don’t care about LS3. I will play it once for the story, maybe twice for some funny achievements and then go back to raids – the best decision Anet has ever implemented into this game.
I will state forever that we need content like raids because the skill gap between players is so high a “one for all” wouldn’t please the best of the best a.k.a. the elite. Due to easy raid mode development being too expensive to produce I think it’s better to deny content for some players if the rest of the game is big enough. GW2 is offering such amount – may the complaints become silent in the night, again: I don’t care any longer. ^^

Ohoni.6057:

I think we can agree that they’ve successfully sated the small target audience, but now we have to figure out how to sate the remainder.

The release of LS is only more than a week away. I tell all of them: Be patient, you can. You don’t get raids. That’s good & very important. Every day I am happy Anet won’t change anything about raids.

It’s just a l2p issue and a usual thing for the levels from 30 – 75. I haven’t seen any players new to tactics/fractal levels above lvl 75. You just have to practice it and you won’t struggle any longer.

Boogiepop Void.6473:

At 64 and up you have to do all 4. If there is a room you are not good at, you cannot do the fractal at all.

I do Thaumanova everytime when it belongs to the daily – on T4. It’s very easy tbh, you just have to know what to do. I’m impressed you run lvl 64 and it seems that you have 0 clue of what you are doing in this fractal.

Boogiepop Void.6473:

Not only is the collider room a deathtrap from the rayguns, but it has golems everywhere AND it’s a kitten maze and due to how frenetically I have to move around JUST TO LIVE, I still don’t know the layout. I can’t map the area in my mind with everything else going on in the room. I’m too busy not being blown up by the beams.

If you are struggling with the golems, you’ll have to wait a bit outside since these golems are running around and you can pull & kill several at the entrance before you even run in. They are moving all the time and you just have to attack them so they will follow you out of the maze.
For the running: Take stability, invulnerability and speed skills.
Also, run in like this: Wait short before the first attack line, run in, dodge next beam shot, use shield, dodge next beam shot, use shield again. With this order you shoul have passed the whole maze till middle console. Wait there for a moment, kill rest of the golems and then proceed to the consoles.

ghostdog.2541:

There is absolutely needed at least an easier mode for raids. If a new player wants to start raiding, they just can’t since the player community made it impossible for begginers to play it (in any other mmo the only requirment is the item lvl of your gear… here that’s not enough anymore with this stupid LI what the player base found out). This way they can’t learn the basic mechanics. This way they can’t play the hard(er) raids and can’t make the legendary armor set.

Nope, please, read the thread. Accessibility without bigger requirements is given by looking for teaching guilds via forum, via reddit and even in the lfg are enough “training” or “teaching runs”, right now at this moment.

Ging.6485:

there are usually only 4 to 5 people willing to try.

It takes a lot of effort to have exact 10 people together at a specific time and ready to go. Having 4-5 people is a very good start and you will see it doesn’t take very much time to wait until your group is filled with the rest 5-6 peeps.

Rednik.3809:

Interesting words, especially from REAL vocal minority, who trying to deny others from experiencing raids, because they are dare to not overcome badly designed entrance barrier by all costs, but instead asking devs to pay attention to their flaws.
Here, fun example for you, fresh from LFR.

I still want to see the big majority of players that are against raids. Maybe it’s way more that many players don’t care about this type of content and they are playing their stuff (PvE open world, fracs, PvP, WvW). I never read anything against raids ingame, never. And every day everybody of us is seeing lots of players out there.

Btw: Fresh from LFR:

Mr Godlike.6098:

I agree with WoodenPotatoes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rovutU4XnE

I don’t want to sound rude or so but you haven’t understood the intention of his video at all!

Funny thing the main intention of WP’s video isn’t in the foreground of this thread and several posts:
Hard but accessible content (and yes raids are accessible) has been present at all times in the GW universe even at start of GW2.
It is obviously clear that players who don’t want to put effort into something (here: raids), are complaining about the raid content instead of starting to organise things.
Everyone can beat this “hard” content but not everyone is willing to.
The mentioning of pugs using high amounts of LIs is just a marginalia and not the important conclusion of WP in his video.

My personal opinion on the LI thingy: I have nothing against faking LIs if a player is experienced and he is able to handle the encounter but if he pings thousands of them and fail horribly then he is a clown in my eyes and deserves to be kicked! Sadly such things happen too often so I like it if groups claiming to ping the unfakable buff of the tonic in addition. It doesn’t protect you from getting a buyer or a lucky guy that has been carried some day but it lowers the uncertainty and the probability of getting an inexperienced guy producing trouble inside the pug.

Harddrive.2738:

Funny, I specifically made sure I said “average raid player”. Making your whole statement utterly pointless and misrepresenting.

You said “Designing content that takes the average player 6-12 months to complete just doesn’t happen on purpose when your trying to grow a player base.”, not me.
The goal was never to grow a playerbase with raids. The goal was to keep a playerbase that were willing to leave the game although it has brought progress for the game (bugfixing) and money for Anet.

Harddrive.2738:

How long are you going to stay in denial? It costs money to make raids and maintain them, they aren’t stupid enough to throw money away to make 5% of the player base happy. They are trying to build the brand and player base.

The words “raid” and “legendary armor” are massive selling points, if you put people off because of pointlessly long time gates, your just shooting yourself in the foot.

I am nowhere near of denying anything but like Anet stated they’ve had sort of a plan. They are satisified of the number of players connected to raids (official statement). It’s also doubtful that the announcement of raids have brought a massive influx of new players to the game when GW2 has always been in the niche of MMOs. And even if so, what’s the matter with it, lol?
I don’t see anything of “shooting yourself in the foot” only because Mr. Harddrive is saying so.
Raids are fine, 150 LI for the are fine too since you are able to learn specific encounters in just a few weeks within pugs, if you are not stupid and ignorant.

Ok, then let’s delete PvP first.

Dude, I have seen such things in every other game and with way harder “verbal fights”. And it has always been existed at this level. This level isn’t even high.
Again, you are painting a dramatic picture which is non-existent.

I repeat myself again but it’s needed:

People are like this in fractals.

People are like this in dungeons.

People are like this in open world.

People are like this in WvW.

People are like this in PvP. (Oh yes, they hell are! ^^)

People are like this in achievement groups, for example LS2 achievements.

Don’t attach “toxicity” or insulting players to raids. That isn’t true at all. You find such players everywhere and definitely not contentrated around raids.
In my opinion the raid playerbase is much more helpful with build hints, gear issues, tactics than any other playerbase. I’ve never learned more than from speedrunners, highly-addicted dungeon and fractal players and raiders.
Even in open world chat you get at least one ironic, sarcastic or a useless answer if asking a question.

Harddrive.2738:

Its pretty obvious whoever designed the LI had no idea of how raids work for 80-90% of the raid player base (aka, not in a good raid guild). Designing content that takes the average player 6-12 months to complete just doesn’t happen on purpose when your trying to grow a player base.

No, you are the one that has no idea. Raids were never ever designed for the average player. Your assumption is wrong from the start.
Raids also haven’t had the intention to grow a player base, they were a major concession to players being bored of the open world content and players seeking for a true challenge.
Raids shouldn’t cater to 80-90% of the playerbase, there are several official statemens underlining this. The possibility to pug them shows us that they are easy enough to handle but they weren’t meant to be.

Blaeys.3102:

I received a freaking death threat over this and you say don’t exaggerate? If you saw that in game, I’m fairly certain it would be something Anet would permaban someone for (hopefully).

Nope, they don’t.
Like I said I have seen such things several times in open world arguments and other stuff. It’s also not a thing related to GW2. Every game has such immature players. And we all know these kind of reactions are exceptions.

Blaeys.3102:

I’m sorry, but anyone that has been a part of any raiding game sees what raiding brings to the community. They may not want to admit it – even to themselves – but when you create divisions among players like this, you end up with a divided community.

Ok, then we should stop all farm trains asap too. Same insults, way more toxic individuals, insults way more often visible and also reported.
The direction goes the same way as with “zerker meta” in dungeons years ago. Just ridiculous.
And it’s all back to: Make your own group, learn something, become better and succeed.

Blaeys.3102:

Back at launch, Anet even saw it – and listed raiding as an issue with other games, promising that end game would simply be a continuation of leveling. They wanted a game that was accessible and fun for everyone – while still offering challenging content.

Somewhere along the way, they made some bad decisions to veer off of that path – I and others just want them back on it.

It is still accessible for everyone but not everyone is willing to put effort into some things. That’s the difference.
And the bigger issue is the content drought, not raids themselves. I bet if there had been a big LS3 out at the moment we wouldn’t even read posts from you in this part of the forum.
You are painting a dramatic picture which is not even existent for a second.

Blaeys.3102:

The jealousy on one side is actually overshadowed by the bigger problem – that raids create a class of players that begin to look down on the rest of the game – to belittle and deride those who don’t raid.

I saw more people looking up and insulting friendly raiders than other way round

Blaeys.3102:

Raiding in its current form creates barriers in the community and nastiness that have no place in the GW2 we played for the first few years. Just look at the examples I provided – and definitely at the message from reddit I attached.

I have read way worse things in the ingame chat of farming maps like your mentioned stuff. Please don’t exaggerate that much.

It’s still compromise, not compramise.

As if having 150 LI and feeling superior has anything in common! I kindly beg you to stop such things. This is provoking and adds no new value to the discussion.

More than one had made it plain to you that they have less than 150 (and way less, like around 30/40/50 LI) and they are completely fine with obtaining the 150. I also belong to that group.

Well done, Sigfodr.
This is in accord to what I was experiencing some weeks ago with hard peaks of training runs at the weekend.
With full asc geared classes but not linking or mentioning any LI I’ve been rejected way less than you but I’m very fine with your 50% rate.

It is like it is: More than a “I don’t want.” than “I’m not able to.” – Exactly the same thing I’m observing with my students in school. ^^

Besides the fact to have a static group it is very easy to pug 5-7 bosses every week nowadays. (VG – Gorse – Sloth – Trio – Escort = very easy ones – KC will follow next weeks if more and more people get used to it. I call it easy for me right now although I haven’t killed it the first two weeks of raid 3 but it’s on farm now)

If we take the number of 50 LI right now, a player will be able to craft 1/3 of the armor this day and the armor hasn’t been released nor will it the next weeks most likely.
With a gain of 5 per week the number will have increased to 75 LI the next month which leads to 1/2 of the armor.
In my opinion that is far from being unfair and it’s also not unfair that people who put in the effort from the start are sitting on 150+ LI at the moment.
They have the only advantage called being “#first” but by the time everybody who is willing to get the 150 will achieve that, no doubt.

Astralporing.1957:

Where?
Perhaps where you claimed that the problem is not about not being able to raid, but not wanting to raid, because anyone wanting to, can?

Basically, if the main distinction between raiders and non-raiders lies in the fact that the first group wants to put an effort, and the other doesn’t, then being able to raid in itself is not a sign of being better in any way. Just of liking different things.
Which was Ohoni’s point all along.

Yeah, but why is he arguing then? He doesn’t want to raid. I don’t want to play PvP and WvW. So, I am rational to say to myself: Nope, Vinceman, you won’t get the rewards/titles/etc. if you don’t play these modes.
It’s as easy as it is and there is no problem to grant others the different game modes + rewards.

Astralporing.1957:

Tarasicodissa.7084:

It’s not about whether you like to raid, it’s about whether you’re able to raid successfuly.

So, you disagree with Vinceman when he claims that there’s no meaningful distinction between those two?

Where is my statement that I have said there is no distinction between those two? I have never ever made that up.
In this discussion nobody was stating that he must successfully raiding. Most of the complaints in this forum are that they are not able to get into a group while this is very easy in reality.
Players got the advice of recruiting guilds on reddit (links were posted several times), there is also a huge chance to get into a guild via “Looking for”-section in this forum, the german, the french or the spanish one. There is a massive amount of guilds looking for raiding people – be it beginners or experienced players. I can show you up to ten german guilds looking for beginners and some more for exp with restrictions.

The problem lies deeper, they want to be successful asap and that won’t happen until you’re experienced.
Afterwards it’s just a little matter of time when pugging and being successful.
I started first and killed VG + Gorse. Tried Sab, went into W2 all that with training. Nowadays I kill 5-7 bosses each week. It could be more but my work and friends are too important to go for the must of 9. I achieved all that without a raiding guild, sometimes it was/is with 2-3 friends or I am just meeting nice people and put them on my friendlist and broaden my network.
Pretty easy thing tbh.

Ohoni.6057:

A player capable of doing raids stepping back to do relatively easy story mode content is a far different thing than a player suited to story mode content being able to participate in raids, and if you cannot understand the distinction then you cannot meaningfully participate in the discussion.

Everyone without harder disabilities is able to participate in raids and even myself knows players with disabilities being successful there.
Like we already stated in other threads: It’s more a “I don’t want to raid” than a “I am not able to raid.” in your case.
As others in this forum gave me the advice, I won’t discuss any further with you.

Ohoni.6057:

Game launched in August 2012, raids only in November 2015. What “most of the raiders” where doing for 3 years? Played a game they don’t like? Or played some other game and only joined recently? And they are already offended? It’s like coming to the vegan restaurant and complaining that there’s no meat in there ^^

/second

That has been answered elaborately.

We were running dungeons, that were harder at the beginning at least.

We were running fractals, that were harder too before HoT.

And we made our own challenges, be it speed clear tournaments (btw. with more viewers than the PvP tournament ^^), be it solo/duo/trio running and some were playing PvP and WvW with great success.

Plus, we have had several threads about players that came from other games just for joining the GW2 community to play the raids.

One special thing is that the combat system of GW2 is a really good one and it was disappointing to see that it was only used for content in which you don’t have to use it all the way because you simply press 1 and you are successful.

The thing is you are not partially wrong, you are completely wrong.
The reason why HoT wasn’t such a big success (in whateverest’s eyes) had nothing to do with raids. Raids came out one month after HoT-launch and the moaning and complaining was there before.
Topic of complaints: HoT-Maps, Inaccessability of getting the masteries done straight because mobs were too punishing and therefore the maps hard to explore for the majority of the playerbase. Grinding for collections was also a thing and many more.
All that got adjusted and improved by the Q2-update, not really understandable for me but it’s ok if the majority needs to have it easier. It’s open world content so I don’t really care because this sort of content has always been faceroll in GW2.
The complaints about raids were small or almost non-existent. These voices got a little bit louder now – they are still decent – because the only PvE-content brought into the game over the last 6-8 months were little events, the Q2-Update (not really contentwise) and the raids. No surprise people got sad or bored and watch raids as their evil denying them new content but on a objective site, this is not true at all. And Bobby clarified that.
It’s nothing more that the usual PvE-casual – as I divide between casuals and more non-casual players – wants to have its cookie too. That’s fine and he will be served the next weeks with LS3 as promised.

Also, raids are an improvement. I met so many new friends ingame, broadened my ingame network and I am way more flexible in playing certain classes like I have never been before. The lfg for raids is never standing still – a good sign that raids have arrived at this game and it looks like they will stay there as the challenging content for a respectable playerbase. It was wished by that base for over 3 years now and it was a reasonable decision to put something like that into the game when fractals and dungeons were nerfed into the ground and/or abandoned (dungeons).

And just one single thing according to your “raiders have more content released”: Most raiders just want to raid but they also had to do map explore and get the masteries. While I am not complaining about that, there are raiders who got offended by this. Additionally, raiders are less interested in the LS3, so next big update will give the casual more content released – much more the raiders got with their 3 wings. You are telling me I am able to play LS3 and easy content too like you and I tell you are able learn and to play raids if you want. You just deny it, that’s not my problem. But don’t take my content away, I am not stealing yours! With such intuition you are building a toxic discussion basis not the ones like me who are pleading for difficult content.

You have to accept that this game serves things to a broad spectrum of your so called “players”. But we don’t sit all together in that boat. I don’t want to be compared with a SW farmer, world boss adventurer or anything like that. I am not such a “player”. Please don’t try to built a Hello Kitty online out of GW2.
(I am also no refugee from another MMO. This is my first one and I like the way the game is going right now with raids!)

We have WvW, we have PvP, we have faceroll PvE, we have challenging PvE, we have RP. And all that is good to have because it creates a huge pool of possibilities. You can choose so much and if you are willing to learn and put effort into you can succeed in every area of the game. It’s just on you to do so.

Well and Bobby said that those assisting people weren’t an issue to prevent LS3 from being released at the time they are going for.
This was the doubt people had because they persisted on the assumption that raids lead to content drought for all casuals and that is 0.0% true.

I just don’t like it if people are throwing in wrong statements that have already been contradicted by the company.
You were saying: “that raid team borrows more people from other departments” and this is wrong. To this point we had these “several statements” in this forum saying it is not true. Yeah, you can deny it but then don’t be surpised if nobody will take it seriously.

Just to come back to your point: The raid team doesn’t borrow more people from other departments. It’s a fact. Bobby told this more than once now.

That is why i call people to discuss properly otherwise it’s very annoying and you get the impression that your opponent in the discussion doesn’t want to argue in a fair manner or he isn’t an adequate person who is able to pursuit a discussion in an adult way.

On topic:

I think the future of raids looks brilliant. The raid team was awesome with their first 3 wings and the announcement that there is more in the pipeline makes me feel happy. I’m excited to see more in the future – after the next boring step called LS3.