Guild Wars 2

If they keep it Thief only… Sure, otherwise we’ll be in a much worse spot then we are already.

Please don’t touch it.
Touch that without adding something proper back and then this class really is kitten and I’ll have to agree with those who say that “teef sucks” and ask me to reroll (or just report me right away).

Like Sorel said: The only thing holding back Thief right now, is the powercreep and insane buffs other classes (aside of warrior) have received. Not to mention that Passives at x% Health have incredibly dumbed down the game and make it even harder on Thieves.

EDIT:
I also don’t think they’ll actually be able to implement the idea you had due to engine restrictions. If it were possible, they’d probably have given Staff #5 (Vault) the option of vertical mobility with lower damage (coefficients) I think.

We’re such a benign and benevolent class and community

I’d much rather have Quick Pockets in Baseline.
Like others have said, when you get to a certain level of gameplay, you start looking for things such as a weapon swap to base your tactic(s)/plan of attack/defense of. If you really want a lower cooldown, run Rune of the Warrior, lowers your weapon swap CD by 20%.

Lyger.5429:

inb4 double short bow thief :-)

That’s actually exactly what I expected, lol.
Energy Sigils on both and just go all over the map like Speedy Gonzalez evading every kind of fight.

True but also a bit sad… Thief (and warrior, I guess) are actually balanced very well, the other classes however… Urgh.
Guess we got to wait for the other classes to get toned down…

Yeah, I just tell those people that I’ll consider rerolling once we’re Esports.
I also got people whispering me afterwards about nice plays I made from time to time.
So yeah, keep doing what you do best!

I’ll always play Thief even in it’s current terrible state, simply because other classes/builds bore me to death at some point (I literally fell asleep while playing Bunker Mesmer last night).

So yeah, kitten the “meta” scrubs. If they were so dead serious about PvP they’d play in full premade.

I get hatred, salt and other idiotic comments on a fair number of matches.
I’ve been reported for Botting because I played thief, I’ve had my ingame mail spammed because I played thief and I’ve had people AFK or even completely LEAVE the game because I was playing thief.

Honestly… Thief and Warrior hate is just disgusting right now, the PvP community is toxic enough as it is, but this “meta” really brings out the worst of the worst.

Also, Trap DH is kitten easy to play and even easier to counter… Dodge, we actually got plenty of that on Daredevil.
Or just ask one of the many Bunker Chronomancers for a Precognition Well on point.

Please put Pirate Outfits and Parrots in the Gemstore…
With Coalescence of Ruin in this state, we need some attire to go with the ridiculous meta.

Consider this a bump post and a +1 to the fact that this weapon skill’s coefficients NEED to be toned down.
I actually died earlier in 1 single hit because a Revenant hit his #2 for fun, I was stealthed… 16728 hit, not to mention the times it hits you twice for some stupid reason.

It’s just a fashion statement.

Seyiwaji.4082:

i lost such important fights and match because of this
i can only laugh about it. But it doesn’t seem easy to fix.

Why wouldn’t it be easy? It used to work fine…

opticaldelusion.5078:

Thief is fine, adapt and l2p. Have you tried playing an actual build like P/P or D/D condi? Because all the noobs I see playing thief are on D/P or Staff which just aren’t viable anymore, seriously the PvP thieves could learn a thing or two from my WvW roaming guild instead of being stuck up

Good luck playing something like that in organised groups. I’ve fought thieves like that both in PvP and WvW (duels, GvG’s, roaming, standard sPvP, you name it) and these kind of thieves are just not effective. They got 0 sustain, escapes or proper defenses that you simply need, not to mention running with both P/P & D/D would obliterate your mobility.
Let’s also not forget how a simple properly timed Headshot completely shuts builds like that down.

My guess is that you don’t play on any notable skill level in either WvW or PvP…

Anyhow, do Thieves need buffs? No.
Do Thieves need fixes? Definitely yes. Plenty of stuff that’s just not working as they were claimed to be intended (like where the kitten is that 10% buff to Withdraw..?).
Do other classes need tuning/toning (down)? Yes. And it’s not even as bad in PvP as it is in WvW… Where’s the Balance Patch we were promised? It’s getting high time for some proper balancing. And no, not perfect balance (that’s boring) but the current state of the game is ridiculous, risk vs reward is non-existent as you don’t have to risk anything for a high reward with certain classes/builds.
It’s very, very tedious to be a Thief main right now

Welcome to the boat where Thieves have been in for a long time now…
I feel extra sorry though, because atleast we still got our trusty shortbow#5.
Hang in there and keep playing what you enjoy!

Sorry but I wouldn’t trust Anet to do this.
Implementing such features (aside of thrown items) is tough to do. Let alone implementing it without breaking anything…

Rather see them working on proper balancing.

Having played almost exclusively S/D, I haven’t ran into any problems.
I do tend to stow weapons as soon as I think I might miss… Might be worth trying?

mhm, noticed this aswel (and died a few times prior to noticing it…).
Might be worth posting in the WvW forum too, it doesn’t get read often either, but more often than the Thief forum…

alchemyst.2165:

I’ve always seen RFI as more beneficial than signet, because it does just so much more when you use it. But signet is still fine, allowing for gap closer and stun break. The active effect really isn’t anything special imo. If you run signets of power infiltrator’s signet will help set up a burst really nicely.

It depends if you want a disengage defensive ability or a gap closer and burst setup.

Don’t forget that the Signet can actually also be used to disengage by targeting something in the distance… That’s actually saved me a fair number of times in all game modes.

Depends on how you like/want to play.
Pack’s more offensive, Scrapper’s more defensive…

For PvP, WvW or PvE?
For WvW, roaming, zerging, organised guild raids or even GvG?
Also depends a lot on the build you’d run.

In general, I personally always preferred the signet.
I feel like it allows for more creative movement both during a fight and outside of it.
For a backstab build it’s worth taking the Signets of Power into account (backstab → signet makes for high hit potential).
But if you take the trait that adds Condi removal to Tricks (forgot the name…) then that’s obviously great for Roll for Initiative for more defensive/sustain play…

In a long run the signet would theoretically be better, but really…
It comes down to what and how you wish to play.

I got thieves of all races, I like my Sylvari the most though :P

Still works for me…
Maybe you got slowed or something?

No, I actually love this against enemy thieves…
It requires some play against mesmers and such but overall, I’m happy with it (and I can’t say that about many Thief utilities).

Let’s start by nerfing some passive defenses first…

Clusterbomb mate.

EDIT:
Ofcourse, move and dodge every once in a while (when appropriate)

hmm… might end up going from my Berserker/Valkyrie mix to the Marauder one…
See how much of a difference it makes.

Runes don’t look too appealing or interesting.

Due to the Stability change, it’s simply impossible for small groups to be rewarded for skilled gameplay.
Everything is tipping in favour of the zerg, despite the claims of Anet to try and step away from that…

coroch.8956:

Let’s hope it’ll be the same with Potion of PVP Reward Track or else it’ll be unfaire

Yes, it would definitely be so unfair that these people who invested time into stacking them up prior to HoT actually get to use them…

Improve your positioning and timing at when to burst in with D/P. I see a lot of thieves being complete idiots and jump on a Necro that just dropped his/her wells etc.

Crit Strikes can get you by, but you have to play a bit more tactical with positioning, stealth and timing.
Other options would be to indeed use Runes of Lyssa, or put a Sigil of Generosity and/or a Sigil of Purity.
Generosity:
60% chance to transfer a condition to your foe on a critical hit.
(Cooldown: 9 Seconds)

Purity:
60% Chance on Hit: Remove a Condition
(Cooldown: 10 Seconds)

That said, you’re not going to last long against any condi build.
If you get condi bombed, you have to get the hell out of whatever situation you got yourself in and hope you can heal up from Down State in a corner where your enemy doesn’t see you.

Shadow Arts is the safest bet and even that is lacking compared to the cleansing of others.

Actually, if I play S/D, I do take the kitten out of Burn Guards…
That’s about it though

I use Shortbow a lot more against Mesmers wether I play S/D or D/P.
I prefer the S/D approach as #4 (dancing dagger) is also quite good against Mesmers and it allows me to stealth of clones with #5 (cloak and dagger, beware you don’t hit their Scepter #2 clone though, that thing kills you).

Try to outstealth them, interrupt their Healing and Elite and don’t get tunnel vision. You can use the clones as resources just as much as the mesmer can, really. With the bounce on SB #1 and S/D #4, you can hit the mesmer if they’re stealthed etc.
Just approach the fight with a tactical mindset rather than an aggressive one.

That said, it’s an uphill fight though. Mesmer’s are really kitten strong at the moment while we’re left standing in the cold.

Don’t see why they wouldn’t make Protection affect Condi Damage and give Protection during Reveal.
Put that on Revealed Training instead. Though I suppose PvE thieves will qq…

No, just no.
While I (and I think everyone who ever played thief) agree that our defensive aspects needs some serious work, the change you propose won’t work.
Maybe if Shadow’s Rejuvenation was 50% effective during revealed (but 100% during Stealth) then sure, I could agree with your proposed SA changes.

As for Escapist Absolution, I very much prefer it in the way it currently is. It rewards Skilful gameplay which aids in bringing back our old “high risk, high reward” shape. Besides, your proposition would actually nerf the access to condi cleanse by a lot.

So no.
Great that you’re thinking about ways of improving the thief class, but this won’t do.

I’m already looking forward to such a video!
Always fun to see good thieves play

Even if I play my full zerker glass Thief with DA/CS/TR (read that as 0 Condi cleanse) a trapper thief can’t kill me.
Why? Because I simply go somewhere else.
Leave the area and you’ll be fine.
Heck, if you’re really that bugged about it, put down a stealth trap.

yeah, once I knew about a DH using those traps, I could beat them as S/D daredevil.
Maintain pressure and try to bait some dodges with your SB, then use Flanking Strike and your dodges to trigger the traps while staying as safe as can be (be ready to Shadowstep away instantly if you mess up).
Long fight, taking much more effort that it’s worth spending on them, but it’s doable.

It’ll live because it’s simply an enjoyable class/playstyle.
We are however very weak in comparison to all the other classes (mobility keeps us viable, really). While everyone can make fundamental mistakes during a fight, the Thief can not or he/she will simply die. That’s all there’s to it. Our defense is getting gutted even more with HoT up to the point where we really are little more than a Ranger’s pet or something.

It’s doable, but risk vs. reward wise, other classes are currently and likely will remain a better option (sadly).

EDIT: What it comes down to is our lack of out-of-stealth survivability. The only proper defensive line available to the Core Thief is Shadow Arts (which has been nerfed). The effects of Shadow Arts are tied to Stealth. So to keep it simple: Stealth is our survival (Condi cleanse, damage reduction, healing ect.). Now there are getting more and more anti-stealth mechanics in the game, it won’t be long until all classes get mechanics to reveal us. So while our defense can be negated almost completely, that of the other classes can not.

What do we have outside of Defense through Stealth? Evasion.
Sad part is that the core thief spec’s evasion line had it’s make-or-break trait ‘feline graces’ gutted. Sure there’s some nice things in there, but as it stands the Acrobatics traitline is severely lacking.
The other option is gated behind a €50,- paywall. Daredevil certainly has potential, even that is still a massive middle finger to the Thief though. It’s pretty much a properly done Acrobatics, with a mechanic that was claimed to be OP in Acrobatics pre-June 23 (having three dodges instead of two). And comparing that to the other Elite Specs leaves anyone at least a bit salty. The Elite’s mechanic is one single extra dodge. In order to make it somewhat decent we have to pick grandmaster traits for an effect.
Great.

Oh yeah, there’s also upcoming content that will be undodgeable so our defensive traitlines are all getting useless.

messiah.1908:

you sure its ranked? as at the start the icon of “team too big” came up so its hot join 5v3 match and not ranked….

but nice fight nevertheless

I think it’s a mix. The vast majority was either Ranked or Unranked.
Anyway, I’d recommend you to watch the whole thing, there’s some really clutch plays in there

Well… we can try to dodge that not one, not two, but THREE! Times now.
Yay.

Christonya.3856:

As it stands, DP thief will still be better. So no. But by your rational all other elite specs are.

Actually, I have been winning some fights against friends of mine who played D/P thief (SA and CS variants) while I was playing S/D Daredevil, levels of Thief experience were quite similar.
It’s a tough fight, but provided you remain aware and focussed, it is definitely a fight you can win. Keeping up enough pressure is the key, at least in my experience, that is.

That said, I actually feel like I generally stand a better chance against other classes (core and elite specs) and I can actually fight 1v1’s again against people of similar skill level.
I’m quite happy about that, though Daredevil still needs work (such as not locking the mechanic behind GM traits…)

Nono, he’s already starting to run away. See how he’s turned?
That guy is gone in a second.

Fleeing/Flying out of Combat as quick as we can!
Yay!

Yeah… I’d like to say it was fun being there but…
Hope it gets some kind of message across, Doubt it though.

Another one to add to the list: Ricochet with a Range increase included.
Not going to happen until we get a new Specialization with a Rifle and even then I’m reluctant to even hope for it.

Nah, it’s simply “working as intended” right now…
Just another nerf hidden under a pile of rather insignificant changes.

As long as I can stand a fair chance in a 1v1 against an opponent of equal skill on a different class, I’ll be happy enough.

It’s a really short daze indeed. Adapt your rotation(s) and/or use a stun break (I wouldn’t recommend using a stun break if you can afford taking a small blow).
You can also of course Block/Evade/Immune it, depending on your class. It’s like a Purple/Pink-ish laser is being shot at you, so between seeing that and the travelling distance that the projectile has to go, it’s quite easy to do that.
You could optionally also quickly stow your weapon to cancel your current cast, this prevents some of the negative effect(s).

Just do what you would do with every other Daze/Stun.

Sounds fair enough to me, I’d be down for it!

Not sure how I like the 450 range on Dash… I already felt like the 360 range forced me out of combat too much (though I could see the 60 extra range just needing some getting used to).
Curious to try it out, but I fear it’s one of those things that’s only cool in theory and that it’d be better of being a simple 300 range.

And there’s still the matter of the 3 “grandmaster” traits…
Now that we’ve seen the druid, I really cannot agree with the implementation of this.
The dodge-improvements should be baseline for DD and be selectable (I know Shalien.9018 made great suggestions for it back on Page 12 and in a seperate topic on this forum). Why is DD the only Elite Specialization with it’s “new mechanic” locked behind “grandmaster” traits? Sorry, it just doesn’t feel right by me.

I have hope every day that I play my S/D Thief in PvP or WvW.
Then I actually get into a fight………………………….

Just giving this one a bump again…