Guild Wars 2

Ehm, no… Enemies will only get the ‘Stomp’ text overlay if they can see you. This means that for example, you can use your #2 to get into a Shadowrefuge that was put there by a teammate. As soon as you ported into the refuge, the ‘Stomp’ text will be simply gone, until you come out of stealth.

Same goes for the downed #3. As soon as you pop that, your enemy will see absolutely no ‘Stomp’ tag until you come out of stealth.

Now, a player may be able to determine your location even if you are in stealth by simply running around, spamming their #1. If you hit a stealthed target, your Auto Attack Chain will progress even if you can’t see what you’re hitting.

It could be that you were unlucky to have encountered a bug, but it never happened to me personally. It should work how I stated above.
If other people had this happen though, that’d be a bad bug that they should resolve asap.

Well, I’d play it in PvP most likely and during small group or solo roaming in WvW.
I got an avid love for the S/D playstyle (hence I actually still occasionally play DA/Acro/TR, it’s doable for pugging). So while I’m really irritated by the fact that I’ll probably have to use this Daredevil(?) traitline over Acro (or CS…) simply because it’s better, mostly because of the nerf to Feline Graces (because truth be told, the rest of the traits are pretty good). I’m glad that I might be able to once again play the kind of style that I love so much, whilst remaining viable and competitive. I would be happy to see a return to build variety like this.
Being a bit selfish, I prefer this to a longrange reliant specialisation (which would be forced to cripple our mobility in some ways, to be fair).
I’d rather see ANet dipping their toes in with these safer choices on how specializations affect the classes for a first time. When they got more expierence and a better feel for it, then I’ll trust them to make a really cool longrange spec without ruining the game for everyone else (watch my Sniper as I 360noscope this bunker guard and shadowstep back into safezone 1 second after).

Don’t know… For now, I’m somewhat satisfied, though I’m still of a mind that they have to give back some of Feline Grace’s former glory. I want to have a headache and sleepless nights, doubting wether to pick Daredevil or Acrobatics.

IF these datamined traits are indeed what we’re getting, then Acrobatics will be even more redundant.
Honestly, I’d have preffered to see Acro, or rather Feline Graces back in it’s former glory.
For Stealth gameplay you can alter between DA/CS/TR or DA/SA/TR. It’d be nothing but fair to have similar optionS (yes, options!) for stealthless gameplay. DA and CS are still your go-to offensive lines, but you’d have a pick between Acro and Daredevil(?) for your Defensive/utility lines.

It’s quite outrageous to nerf one traitline so hard, just so this new present gets an extra bit of flair to it.
So despite the fact that I’ll be really glad if we get back options for stealthless/bruiser type play, I’m very dissappointed in the way ANet has handled it.

All of the Sword stuff could do with improved damage to make viable to D/P.
The lower damage aswell as the lower surviveabilty on the set… I still cannot get my head around any possible reasoning behind it. Maybe the Specialisation can have some light appear for those people who like stealthless type of builds.

Now we still got a tricky thing here… The other class Specializations got new “cool-looking” Head, Shoulder and Hand pieces. What this character is wearing is what looks like that datamined Daredevil helm and just casual Sneakthief Shoulders/Gauntlets.
Slightly dissappointing.

Anyhow, I’m looking forward to the reveal. Let’s hope it brings back the initiative to play (evasive) stealth-less builds.

Yeah, happened to me a few times as well just today in PvP and WvW.

It depends on who you’re running with.
If you play with people that can work together to get your back up on your feet, Vampirism works. The Mist Form is actually the only thing that in my opinion makes Vampirism good to play with.

This is because when you play with people that you can’t properly communicate with, the Mist Form is mostly just kitteneless waste of time (unless you for example know that those few seconds are just enough for your heal to come of cooldown), Vampirism will just add a little extra time to accept the fact that you’re going to die.

Now, that means (again, just my opinion) that Pack runes are much better for solo roaming, or roaming with people you’re not communicating with.
I’d also just like to toss it out there that if you’re a good player with a strong understanding of positioning, Pack is MUCH better than Vampirism. It has more synergy with the Thief traits (proccing Fury which you can extend “infinitly” with No Quarter). It also bolsters your Precision, unlike the Vampirism rune (+125 precision is a LOT). The added Swiftness duration’s also nice for a bit extra mobility/moveability.

That’s a reason why many folk in better guilds’s focus parties will use riskier setups like Pack Rune (or Scholar even) with DA/CS/TR.

So it comes down to how skilled and confident both you and your fellow teammembers are. the more skill/confidence, the better of you are with Pack.
Also you’re solo, Mist Form is really just 3 wasted seconds most of the time (though it may also be smartly triggered for a safe stomp!).

I prefer Pack Runes myself for WvW and I’m considering to put Scholar Runes on a second set once I got the gold for another set.

If you’re solo or playing in a small group with classes that cannot stealth themselves (like Ele) I’d go for S/D. I find that S/D makes you stand a chance against every single build out there, while D/P only makes you stand a chance against other heavy Power builds.
Now especially when outnumbered, I find that evasion works better than stealth but that’s personal opinion.

For outnumbered situations in an organised group, I’d go for D/P though.
The ability to coordinate a burst is key and D/P allows every tool that you need for that.

My warrior is the biggest that a Norn Male can get. In PvE it’s no issue (I suck at Juming Puzzles nomatter the race or size), in WvW it actually helps because your squishier guildmembers (Focus Party & Bombers) can ‘hide’ in your character easier.
In PvP I don’t find it to be an issue either, maybe it’s because I change my camera angle to a more top-down thingy etc.
You could always make a seperate smaller warrior for PvP if it bothers you (since you get upscaled to a proper level 80 anyways)

Honestly… The name? Who really cares about that? Who’s going to see it aside of yourself? The logo displayed next to your character will still show you’re a Thief, not a ‘Daredevil’. Heck, we’re not even sure if that’ll be the name (though the datamines do seem to incline it).

If you want to worry or whine about something, wait until the reveal and then start the cries for change.
For all you know it could be a hoax and we get a mace/blackjack idea with a Pickpocket or Burglar for a name, or a Scepter (or Focus) and we get called something like a Nightbade. Heck, maybe WE become the ‘Forge’ and get the kitten hammer. Engi and thief are both Medium armored classes. It was in the Trailer and there’s datamines! It MUST be true!

Just really don’t get the point inall these topics about things that aren’t confirmed in any way or whatsoever yet.
Sorry for the rant mate, I’m just getting really tired with these useless topics taking up front page space from topics that are actually of value to te Thief as is and will (possible) be.

I don’t normally reply if I haven’t really got much to add, but to this one I feel like I just have to let people know that I fully agree with the statement.

I hope for something like a melee-staff specialization so that it may fix S/D.

10% is a huge increase lol. Don’t see it as 10%, you go from 20% to 30%… Looks the same on paper but the approach is different.

I play either S/D (DA/ACR/TR or DA/CS/TR) or D/P with DA/CS/TR.
I don’t really have issues on D/P. A lot of it boils down to the approach of a fight.
Facing someone bursty? Try to be more aggressive → bursty than they are. Facing something tanky? Kite more, bait out key skills and dodges before bursting in.
People who run SA in WvW solo roam should really just stop playing thief. It was like that pre-patch and even more so post-patch. It’s not like the 300-650 health regen per pulse in stealth is going to last aganst constant pressure by 1-2k+ auto attacks.

Traits look at health, not class mechanic.
Necro’s gain a bar of Deathshroud, not a bar of Health.

Traits treat down state as a new/second bar of health.

Go back to their corpse and spam Heartseekers.
Make those kittens learn what real spam is!

As a S/D thief you have to be really good and know how all classes work. This is especially so due to/since the nerfs to Feline Grace AND Vigour. No more random dodging, really, really high skill cap on it now. I’d advice against using S/D if you don’t even know builds for your other 80’s, sorry.
Sadly S/D is far from what it used to be. You can make it work with DA, CS, TR and Acro (in any combination really) but the risk vs reward makes it so that S/D is hardly wever worth it.

If you do want to stick with it, keep in mind that S/D relies more on sustain than damage, therefore you might be better of trading some of your zerker pieces, for Valkyrie pieces.

Are there other solutions outside of D/P? Yeah…they all involve heavily outplaying your enemy though… Anything can be made viable if you’re good enough. Between the other classes you stated, mesmer is in the best spot right now. Everyone and their mom plays mesmer now though…

Really, just play what you like and what works for you. If you’re having fun, you’re doing the right thing!

Yeah because the Revenant has all this amazing access to stealth, strong openers and (vertical) mobility.
Aye, Shiro is amazing.

Competitive viability on high tier? D/P> S/D > D/D.
Skill cap wise? S/D > D/P > D/D.

Anyway… That’s my opinion and D/D takes the shortest end of the stick. D/D now more than ever is a “burst or get bursted” set (no you don’t need Shadow Rejuv… Cloaked in Shadows is MUCH better for D/D).

D/P is easier to play because you got 3 one-step ways of dealing with an enemy and another two-step way. You can 1) blind, 2) Interrupt and 3) dodge as well as go for #5 to #2 for stealth. It’s also a bit more passive than S/D in my opinion. S/D requires you to act to what’s happening right then and there, knowing animations, effects… Enemy skills really (especially now with the Feline Grace + Vigour nerfs) while D/P Is more about the preparing before handed. I also find S/D players to be less predictable than D/P players.

But in the end it boils down to what works for you… If you enjoy D/D, go for it. Enjoy P/P? Go for it. It’s a game after all and unless you want to make it to top tier, I wouldn’t worry too much about anything like this.

Not to mention that the Revenant doesn’t have the Stealth ((/) openers) or mobility that the thief has.
In fact, I don’t think we have anything to fear about Shiro or the Revenant in general.
I’ll play Rev to learn what methods are best used to kill it, then go back to thief.

Now to hope that we get more viable play styles other than D/P… Hand back Feline Grace and Ricochet please…

Play some S/D thief, you’ll learn to deal without Blocks, invulns, no stealth (well, not that much stealth is needed) of you toss in P/P on the switch you also get used to poor mobility…

Really, there’s classes that deal with those lacking mechanics rather comfortably…
And no, S/D thief isn’t meta anymore, I know… It certainly fares well though, despite the ridiculous nerfs that force you to outplay every single other class/build heavily.

Anyhow, it worked in the past despite lacking the majority of your list… I don’t see what the fuss is about.

I play with DA/CS/TR (or DA/Acro/TR) and I use Berserker Shoulders, Gauntlets, Boots and Weapons, with Valkyrie Helmet. Chest and Legs.
The trinkets are all Berserker+Valkyrie Combo with utility varying on the build I play.

I’d recommend Furious Maintenance Oil myself, but that’s up to you
The gear works for any Power/Precision/Ferocity aimed build really.

PvP’s equipment system is completely loose from the PvE/WvW equipment.
In PvP, all that matters for stats is the amulet and the kind of weapons you want to use.
These Amulets dictate your statistics and your weapons the weaponskills. It’s much simpeler really. Due to this system, a level 1 is just as viable in PvP, as a level 80.

The moa thing has to do with the fact that the cast started before you stealthed.
A player following you while you’re stealthed by using auto attacks is simply a good player. If you hit a stealthed target, the AA chain continues which allows any class to track you really.
It’s pretty basic stuff

Vamp is honestly terrible for roaming lol.
The power of Vamp runes in sPvP lies in the fact that in that area, there’s always backup (that’s why they often fail in pug mathes) to pick you up from downstate.

In WvW there’s nowhere to hide and more often than not, noone to pick you up.
Not to mention it’s also a really big giveaway on your location (like those idiots that drop a smokescreen on their downed location, lol.)

I’d recommend Eagle or Centaur runes if you find Pack too expensive.

babazhook.6805:

Jayden Ennok.3687:

I find SA/Ac/Trix really good vs condi builds, even PU mesmers.

Hows that build damage wise?

Considering stats have been pulled loose from traitlines, it’s not too shabby.
It’s just really, really passive.

Not my thing.

I’d personally advice to sit in shortbow more against condi classes. Maintain pressure while staying largely out of range if possible. I noticed that especially with DA/CS, the shortbow puts mesmers in a tough spot. Bait out the utilities, dodges and heals on Shortbow, then burst in with S/D (or D/P for that matter).

But yeah, it’s one hell of a matchup.

Naaaa, I don’t need to compensate ;P

But seriously, is this your reason for not wanting to play an Asura Thief?
Good ridance then if you’d ask me :\

Well everything worked fine without Infusion of Shadows and Shadows Rejuvenation before (played D/D 6/6/2/0/0 myself pre-patch quite a bit).
Just means you’re not as spammy and need to put more thought into when to AA, when to dodge, when to Blind =/= Stealth (Well, I picked the 2 in SA for Blind on Stealth…) etc.
Yes, Thieves require even more skilled play now…

Edit: Really, when you make good use of your skills, you don’t need any sources of Initiative regen from your traits.

Our initiative wasn’t on par with other classes cooldowns pre-patch either, lol.
Anyhow. Yatameter is right, you just need to adapt the auto-attack chain a little bit (luckily it deals the damage to make up for it…)

I did read it before, but I didn’t really notice it (or had time to test it).
Now that I did have a moment to test it… Yeah, I think it’s an oversight. I can’t recall anything where they said that it wouldn’t cleanse Weakness anymore.

It seems like Infiltrator’s Return cleanes everything but the Weakness condition, so that’s a bit awkward.
Then again, it might just be intended for all I know… Anet being Anet, you know?

Loving it, trying to incorporate it into my raid build but it’s hard to drop Blink for it…
But it’s good that I’m actively switching utilities around now and keeping the power of Mimic in Mind.

The nerf to Acro wasn’t just a nerf to S/D, it was a nerf to stealthless builds in general.
Sure you can still make it work, but it’s clearly not suited for competitive play which really is a kitten shame considering the goal of this patch was to create build diversity.

That has to do with the fact that they removed stats from traitlines/specializations.
I’ve no idea how to get it back to how it used to be, haven’t looked into it either as it hasn’t really bothered me (yet) :P

Chaotic.9742:

T raw.4658:

Chaotic.9742:

Love all the QQ about this patch. I picked up theif upon returning and can absolutely dominate in PvP after two days of learning how to fight other classes intelligently. I sincerely don’t get all of this complaining, adapt to the patch – this isn’t the end of the world.

Many lies are being told. Very evident when reading post history…

Not sure what lies you could be seeing but ok? All I can think of is you interpreted my post as I’ve never played thief before in my life until this patch in which case I apologize for the confusion. But considering I’ve been gone for over a month and just started up again with thief as my main, I’m not struggling in any PvP matches after the first couple of days learning the patch and knocking the rust off. This leads me to believe the forum complaints are being blown WAY out of proportion and thieves remain a valuable asset to any PvP team.

Yet the fact that all thieves play the exact same build already goes to show how terrible this patch is.
The goal and purpose of this patch was to create build diversity. So what’s the result: D/D, S/D, P/P and S/P are all still not competitive. They have entirely missed the intention. Previously you’d have S/D as an at least somewhat viable option, now it’s literally just D/P with DA/SA/TR (ok some people play CS>SA, awesome diversity!)

So even though you can still kick kitten in hotjoins because those people are oblivious, once you get against a somewhat decent player, you’re done for.
You said you’re new, so your experiences are skewed due to a lack of material to compare it with. Most people here have been playing thief for a significant time though and therefor know what’s wrong. I’m not saying this to be an kitten but really… Pretty much everything in this patch involves a Nerf for Thieves in one way or another.

Well they completely destroyed build diversity for several other classes as well, Thieves only got D/P crap left to play once playing in higher tiers. It was bad enough before but now it’s just completely botched.
I like the majority of changes o paper, but come on… If you test this patch out for a day you already realize how badly things are messed up right now.
I really hope to see Ricochet returned and Feline Graces made on par to it’s previous version (heck, make it 15 endurance returned on successful dodge that’d be better than this stunt they pulled with Vigor…)

Can’t say I’ve had any issues with them… Maybe use Shortbow more to bait out dodges, heals and utilities?
Or consider going for a more offensive build if possible. Hard to tell if I don’t know your build.

I switch between Pack and Scholar runes.
Admittedly, Runes of the Eagle are a great option aswell and not as expensive.
I’d advice against the Rune of the Thief since you don’t use the Condition damage as much on a D/P setup.

EDIT:
I also don’t see much benefit in Vampirism Runes in WvW roaming… whoever got you to 25% will just wait out the mist form and then kick you down regardless, in PvP this rune works because you may be able to rely on your team distracting the enemy long enough for you to reset. I don’t find this to be the case in WvW, in fact, I think this rune cripples you as much as the Last Refuge trait used to. I’d rather be able to use my skills and utilities to get out of a sticky situation.

Just wait until you find a mesmer running a mix of high damage shatters and a stunlock build… kitten’s scary as it’s basicly an improved version of our Basilisk Venom and Backstab…

Despite the fact that it looked like a change that rewarded skillful gameplay, the ners to vigour make Feline Grace worthless…
I’ll dearly miss you buddy! :’(

When the hits are ‘0’ you can CnD of your opponent.
On blocks and invulnerabilities you can’t CnD.
I’d suggest waiting it out either in stealth or from a distance, if possible you can try to maintain a bit of condition pressure (preferably poison) depending on the kind of utility your enemy popped.

PvP seems fairly balanced, WvW is unbalanced in the aspect that Conditions can be boosted to being just crazy OP. Any class that has access to easy 4+ conditions (Mesmers, Engi’s, Rangers) can just tear you apart in seconds while remaining rather tanky (Dire gear..) It’s rather skewed for solo or small group play. In zergs/raids, Power still seems to be the best way forward.

IGN: Dzuzz
Playstyle: WvW/GvG (Focus Party) and sPvP
Server: Aurora Glade
Experience with thief: I’ve been maining Thief for quite a while now. My focus has always been on any form of PvP (no ppt for me in WvW if I can fight!) because of how you can never fully predict the situation and have to adapt on the fly.
Aside of killing other players I’m also a quite avid Theory- and Build Crafter.

Gabriell.4856:

Terissimo.6852:

Why anet? WHY?!

Yummy, thief’s tears…

I hope this isn’t a bug. This is what some players want in terms of counterplay. Now they just need to add it to other stealth attacks.

You do realize that we could technically get of 3 backstabs in 4 seconds so long as we do it in our refuge? Time for some bunker tears…

I expect the Specialization to bring back Ricochet and all that stuff for the gun lovers amongst us.
So you’ll probably have to adapt for now, or come back when we know we’ll have Ricochet back. I’m quite confident in that this wasn’t an oversight and that we’ll have it back in some form or shape later.

SA? Kitten that. DA, CS and Trickery!
And ofcourse Acro for S/D sometimes

What he did was: Cluster Bomb (SB2) → Steal (with Mug trait in Deadly Arts) → Detonate Cluser (SB2).

This combination hits so hard because the traited Steal adds to the burst.
You can also do this with the Infiltrator’s Signet or a Shadowstep, but they dont’t deal damage. I’d also recommend you’d use Shadowstep as an escape for starters ;P

Easy enough to get 700 condition damage using just armor right now (Full Dire armor + trinkets gets you to 673 without anything put on it aside of that.)

So yeah, it’s probably going to be bad.

Xaylin.1860:

Vornollo.5182:

I actually thought they ment the pulses as well.
But now that you put it this way it does sound like a proper GM trait.
Would be amazing for the builds that use a dagger off-hand.

Except that the stacked Blinds are on a Revenant skill and not CiS…

Sigh… Sometimes it’s really hard for me not to be mean to people…
Next time you reply to any topic, make sure your reply actually adds something constructive to the topic that is discussed.
In this case the entire topic is based on the speculating what this potential Blind stacking could mean for Thieves.

“if you got nothing nice to say, say nothing at all.”
I agree that sometimes things simply have to be said, but your reply is just useless…

But please, feel free to jump in whenever your reaction makes any kind of sense! We all like a good speculation topic!

I actually thought they ment the pulses as well.
But now that you put it this way it does sound like a proper GM trait.
Would be amazing for the builds that use a dagger off-hand.

Steal is good on different occassions.
In it’s most basic shape, you can use it to interrupt key skills such as Heals, a Warrior´s Banner and sometimes an Ele´s meteor Shower and the likes (a bit like Zord said), which is always a good idea. Interupting skills like that can be key to a victory in a (team) fight.

Once you get more accustomed to thief, it becomes even more potent.
For example. You can steal off Ele’s who use Elemental Attunement (VII in Arcana) while they’re in Earth to steal their protection, then use the Stolen Item when they just got out of their water/healing rotation. This will allow you to easily deal with their defense and comfortably deal with their offense. Really screws them over when done properly
And there’s “tricks” with steal like that for almost every class.