Guild Wars 2

Well, don’t make assumptions until it’s released.
Once we’ve played with it, we can whine about it.

I think that the simple fact that it procs on every evade instead of every dodge is great. The 3 second CD is also not much of an issue… LoS or create distance also avoids getting hit.
So it seems that our playstyle will change, for sure, but to say it’s a nerf and that we should have a moment of silence for that reason… It’s a bit too soon still.
Heck, maybe we’ll get unlimited dodges and blinds in the Specialization Tree to offer an alternative to the typical 6 in Shadow Arts…

Don’t stop believing!

Fat Disgrace.4275:

weird. people cry about last refuge revealing them but its ok for vamp runes to interrupt them at the same health thresh hold…

I am still playing s/d 2/0/0/6/6 or d/p 2/6/0/0/6 pack runes.

That’s because the mist form and last refuge will proc at the same time.
This means that you’re not half as likely to reveal yourself because when you’re in mist form, you can’t attack.
It’s not a perfect solution , but it works I guess…

I’m with you on the Pack power though! ^^

I didn’t ever need the “get out of jail for free” card that the Rune of Vampirism gives before some top tier teams started using it.
I personally (still) use the Rune of the Pack for both 2/6/0/0/6 and 6/0/2/0/6.
Maybe the vampirism is more desired in certain matchups where you know you’ll be pulling focus a lot, I don’t ever really run into those situations in casual (un)ranked PvP though.

But yeah, the Panic Strike build (D/P & SB with 6/0/2/0/6) and a Vampirism or Pack rune seems to be the current D/P meta for sPvP. Rune depends on your preference and playstyle.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Vornollo.5182:

@Swinsk, What rune are you talking about (as in, full name)? I can’t recall there being a “Rune of Fury”, but that’s possibly just me not remembering it.

EDIT:
So I went for a quick check on the Wiki… I can’t find the runes you’re talking about, Swinsk :P

It’s called Rage Rune.

Ah, so it was one of those that I noted but he called it different I guess.
Or we’re both missing something. If that’s the case, I hope that Swinsk himself replies

Condi pressure ruins the day of any thief, really.
You could also blow your Lich/Plague on them but I’d advice to keep it for a more dire situation.

But yeah, unless you’re up against some scrub who relies on traiting deep into Shadow Arts (the stroboscope stealthers ones who heal in stealth), putting constant (AoE) Condi pressure will be the key.

Furious Retaliation procs and Thrill of the Crime like you said. or a combination of either (or both) of these traits (Thrill of the Crime more prominently) with a Rune such as: Pack, Citadel, Rage and maybe Altruism (not sure about the latter)

And like mentioned by the others, when people say ‘Perma’, it’s not really permanent.
It’s really only achieveable for a (solo) Thief to maintain “Perma Fury” whilst in combat and even then it relies on procs and ICD’s, meaning it’s essentially bound to timers which leads to the conclusion that you can have a long Fury uptime, but not exactly ‘permanent’.

@Swinsk, What rune are you talking about (as in, full name)? I can’t recall there being a “Rune of Fury”, but that’s possibly just me not remembering it.

EDIT:
So I went for a quick check on the Wiki… I can’t find the runes you’re talking about, Swinsk :P

It’s really his issue.

I use S/P for the majority of a Dungeon/Fractal Run because of the simple fact that the Pistol Whip cleave damage is amazing against groups of mobs.
In the scenario where you need the single target damage, I do play D/D.
S/P is actually also good for single target, especially if you’re new(er) to Thief.

But yeah, you’ll ideally be switching Weapons, Traits and Utilities several times per dungeon to min-max your efficiency. Not like you can’t just run S/ and still be efficient.

I’d say it’s really just his issue and his incompetence, don’t fuss over it.

I agree that Air #2 needs a rework, maybe make it an AoE knockback in a 300 range around the Ele or something.
The teleport you described is a tad too much (I won’t complain if we get it, but it’s a bit OP to be fair).

Aside of that, I don’t think the Staff needs anything else.
Might be because I only play my Ele for Guild raids. I like it’s AoE potency and the fact that playing an Ele requires a bit more thought.

Heavy Crowd Control and anything that provides Heavy Condi Pressure.
Prefferably a lot of different condi’s (which is why the Engi is named in particular).

Our mobility is one of our strongest pro’s in a fight, taking it away from us can really have a fight go sour very quickly.
It’s also a pretty general known thing that our Condi Cleansing is just terrible and the only reliable form of it comes through passive play in stealth.
Putting pressure on a Thief with any class/build that can do eiter (or both) of these will be a “hard counter”.

Lich form AA scares me more than a Rangers Rapid Fire if I’m caught off-guard.

But yeah, as long as you see it coming, it’s not much of an issue.
Even on S/D you can quite easily evade through the entire Lich Form if you don’t do RNG dodges (or even with RNG dodges against a bad necro).
Stealths and Blinds from D/P make Liches almost a cakewalk though.

Buran.3796:

As general rule, meditation guardians hardcounters this class (specially with greatsword/scepter+focus).

I have more issues with Sword/Focus players myself when playing S/D thief, but Scepter’s fine.
Another great counter to S/D thieves is your standerd pewpew LB Power ranger with 6-12 seconds of immunity if they time their attacks even slightly properly like Zephyra said.

Toxsa.2701:

For rangers at least you can see them coming. L2P.

Ever heard of a Siamoth?

I don’t mind the Thief burst as much as a Ranger’s Burst.
If I get bursted by a focus party which consists of thieves, they actually have to get really kitten close to me which they can only do if I’m playing as a backline (out of position), or horribly messed up in the melee train. Actually, if you get bursted down by thieves in a GvG or ZvZ, you know you messed up.

A group of rangers however can set a target and burst it down while never having to worry about anything, except for potentially an enemy focus party which really isn’t that much of an issue either if you got half-decent situational awareness.
So sorry to burst your bubble, but there’s really more counterplay to thieves in ZvZ/GvG than there is to Rangers. For the reasons stated, Thieves do also require more skill to play in those situations, which is why they do pretty much deserve to burst a target down that 1 second quicker (risk vs reward and all).

And that’s without even getting started about how Thieves really cannot get any immunities at all (no, invisible doesn’t equal invincible…) while a Ranger can quite easily link 12 seconds of complete immunity (Signet of Stone, Protect me).
Where’s the counterplay to that? Atleast a Thief can be hit while in stealth.

But you’re completely right for enjoying Ranger and abusing all the benfits it brings, I have a lot of fun with it myself too.
But really… You don’t even have to learn to play Ranger to be efficient with it, the only issue that you might run into is your positioning. So how exactly is having to face someone in a big-scale fight who should be at the other end of the enemy melee train and who would (if you’d manage to get through the enemy melee train by a leap or deep push) just go immune for 6-12 seconds a L2P issue?

So really man, keep enjoying your Ranger but don’t go around making all those claims that there’d be more counterplay to Rangers in these kind of situations.
Your hate towards thieves is warranted aswell if they are one of those P/D Ebola Builds and/or run 6 in Shadow Arts to endlessly reset fights. But in general, your commentary is very flawed and biased. It’s biased for the good reason that Rangers are a hell lot of fun to play, but it’s biased nonetheless.

And keep in mind that once you put down a portal, there’s a few seconds delay before the option to take it pops up.

Lay one down (exit), zoom in on your map and set your personal waypoint, move to the far side of your minimap until the personal waypoint is at/near the other end of it, put down the second portal (entrance), wait for it to turn bright pink + a little bit and then you can take it.

Works for me whenever I play my mesmer. I do prefer the Torch or Focus off-hand for Shatter builds though. But I love to go Sw/Sw for Lockdown builds

Staircases blocking shadowsteps, seperate wall parts in WvW keeps blocking shadowsteps (one destructable to another destructable piece), the strange fact that you can port up to the Archway/bridge at Watercamp’s entrance, but not up to the same exact model in Vale (just because there’s a slight height difference in the terrain leading onto it).

I also had it happen to me a few times where guards would hit me despite having a blind on them (I checked it in video footage…).
Oh, getting a 4.5 cooldown on steal when having an ally targetted and one of those “out of range” messages while it really should’ve procced the 30/20 second cooldown for that Thrill of the Crime swiftness, detargetting solved it…

And ofcourse, the annoying “obstructed” message when you’re standing behind a pebble that’s not even the size of my Asura’s tiny toe.

Yep, I noticed that you’ll have the “Immune” message pop up over your head for some reason (I supose because you’re immune to stealth? lol).
Everything works like normal (like Bazzoong stated aswell) but the Stealth part won’t proc ever.

It’s like using a CnD during the revealed or a Hide in Shadows or anything like that.

Cool stuff, a bit like a promotional trailer ^^

Also happens in the Borderlands, I’ve seen it happen at Briar.
Don’t have the screenshot atm but if I remember, I’ll put it up here when I’m home from work.

I don’t play stealth-reliant builds anyways so can’t say that I mind.
You’re still able to chain stealth accordingly (blast in smoke field, heartseekers, you all know the drill) so aside of the effect on Shadow Refuge, I think this is actually good.
Less passive playing I’d say.

I use Energy and Air, Fire or Generosity on my Shortbow, with Air and Fire on D/P respectively.
I prefer Air over Fire on my main hand because the ICD on Air is 3 seconds, while the Fire has an ICD of 5 seconds. It’s not much, but it’s something.

For the Shortbow it depends on my build. If I go for the executioner build (2/6/0/0/6) I’ll opt for the Generosity Sigil, if I play Panic Strike (6/0/2/0/6/) I’ll pick Air or Fire depending on how I think the teamfights will go. If they got a lot of Melee, I’ll go for Fire, if they got a lot of Ranged players I’ll go for Air.

Another option on the D/P set would be the Sigil of Rage, it’s got pretty good synergy with the ‘Critical Haste’ trait for those who play with Critical Strikes.

Can’t say I care about the Weapon really… It’s the Traits and Utilities that’ll make up the majority of the “make or break” part of the specialisation.

So yeah, if we were to get a Trident, I’ll ditch one-third of the specialisation of the bat, probably (so to say)

You can still get the Cloaked in Shadows so no, it’s not nerfed.
If I play D/D I play it 6/6/2/0/0, those people who need Shadow’s Rejuvenation should probably not use D/D for a while yet :P

So no, it’s not nerfed for any decent D/D player really
I’d prefer to see it in a different spot other than grandmaster, but well… Can’t have everything!

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Link packet of salt for every response.

Yep, works like a charm!

I don’t see what people are on about in terms of “tickling damage”, the damage is actually quite strong.

The Cluster Bomb does rather significant damage and is very powerful in combination with a poison field which (guess what) is also on the same exact weapon.
Aside of how Cluster Bomb is also pretty much “spammable” for blast finishers (as mentioned above) and the Infiltrator’s Arrow needs no further explaining, it’s basicly the thing that keeps Thief in the top tier PvP brackets to be honest.
The evade is also rather good if you don’t spam it (spamming the #3 will cause you to rubber band like crazy).

Even the silly “low damage” auto attack is strong due to the fact that it bounces (did you ever see the damage on it when you run 6/6/2/0/0?) not to mention that the immobilize on the stealth attack is actually quite great.

I’d almost go as far as saying that I use the shortbow more than anything else. It’s definitly a 50/50 split between the shortbow and my “main” weapon set.
But yeah, the fact that just about every thief in any competitive area of the game (PvP, GvG, PvE speedruns etc.) uses the shortbow goes to show how this weapon is good enough to do without traits.
I mean, we got that extra damage trait in the Shadow Arts tree ‘Power Shots’, you could use that but I think noone really does because it’s simply not needed or because when you look at the trade off, others are more valueable (which is basicly another point of view on the same thing I said earlier: it’s not needed)

I mean, I won’t complain if the shortbow gets some extra love but… I’d rather see other things improved that are, in my opinion, more of a pressing matter.

lmfao, we’d see a ton of Thief-Only WvW events then.

S/P is really strong against groups, D/D is really strong against single targets and SB is really the only thing that I’d call mandatory because of the mobility you get with it.

Also, if PvE really bores you, you can level through EotM or even through PvP.
EotM tends to have Karma trains going and gives a really good rate of experience as well as loot, gear and I think a few Traits towards your levelling.
PvP is really slow as you don’t get experience for playing it, but during the reward tracks you will get Tomes of Knowledge that you can use to level up as well as Skill Points. I’m currently in the process of levelling yet another Thief through PvP myself like that.

So you got some options to go outside of the conventional levelling
If you take the PvP route, you’d best learn to play Thief role a bit more in Unranked at first, will save you a lot of QQ and unwanted salt.
If you want to know more about it, I think Terrorsquad/DeniedGuildWars has some great starter guides for the Thief in PvP, just search for ‘deniedguildwars’ in YouTube, there’s some good stuff for the new Thief Players there

I find that I don’t have (m)any issues against D/P Thieves unless they run some scrubby 6-in-SA builds.
What works for me is to try and manage my evade frames with their stealth. Consider that they will almost always try to come for the backstab which will result them coming for you in 2-3 seconds, considering their stealth lasts either 3 or 4 seconds. So, count to 1 and start to evade or create distance with Shortbow or by hitting the Infiltrator’s Return on your Sword #2.
Interrupt their Heartseeker with your steal if you can but make sure not to miss/waste steal. It’s pretty key to your damage and a real gamemaker or breaker against good D/P thieves.
Another fun thing to do is to CnD of your stealthed opponent. Keep in mind the distance they need to cover and the time that they have to get to you. If you can time your CnD to stealth of them you’ll quickly get able to take the upper hand as CnD does quite a bit of damage and they get dazed or blinded which will make miss the backstab.
If you run with Basilisk Venom, try to use it when they used refuged, you’ll be able to tell their location in the refuge and keep up the pressure on them, nullifying or outdamaging their health regen.

Overall, don’t stand still (use Sword #2 to start hammering or the return to throw them of your back), try not to waste your steal (if/when you try to interrupt their HS though Smoke field), know their stealth uptime/distance/time needed for Backdtab and adapt your evade frames to it, use Basi venom as a tool to determine their location in a refuge (possibly) and be creative. If they can’t get a proper backstab in to start with then the fight will turn in your favour slow but steadily.

Invictorum.7643:

Okay, question. How do I not get brutally melted by any thief?

I main a thief and I used to have issues against good mesmer players.
The ones that screwed me over when I played D/P or D/D would make clever use of their Stealth (#4 on torch, Decoy, Mass Invis) and Mobility (Sword #3, Blink) and time their evade on the sword #2 when I had been in stealth for ~2 seconds. Thief Stealth lasts 3 or 4 seconds depending on their traits most of the time (Shadow Refuge or several Heartseekers increases their stealth upime as you know). SInce the Evade on Sword #2 lasts longer than 2 seconds, I’d miss my backstab and be out of stealth before I could do anything useful against them.
As the D/D and D/P players are both rather squishy you can out-damage them. When you played smart on the Stealth and the Mobility, some well-timed burst can really demolish a thief so badly that they’ll be dead at your feet, or forced to pull off (and reset), some of the strongest burst can be achieved by linking the Greatsword’s #4 (Berserker) into #2 (Throw Sword) to finalize it with #3 (the AoE sword popping out of the ground).
Another good thing is to use your GS #5 to knock thieves out of their Shadow Refuge, effectively denying them the Health they’d gain from it and forcing the Revealed effect on them for 4 seconds.

Oh yeah, a S/D player can be beaten in the same way, only the timing of your Sword #2 changes to be used at a moment where your health is getting low (and you need to stall a bit for your heal to get back up).
A well played S/D thief will end up beating you though. Luckily they’re being phased out of the meta quite badly (even Sizer hopped over to D/P it seems) so you won’t be facing too many of those

Sorel.4870:

How to deal with SD thieves:

1) Equip a bow
2) Drop the fire field around
3) Just stand still: your fire field deals more damage than they do

Lol? ok, since that field applies only one condition (burning) you can just easily cleanse it with Infiltrator’s Return.
The field doesn’t even last that long and it can be evaded through almost all the time without too much effort really and while maintaining pressure.
I’m yet to face the first Bow Warrior that could actually tear apart a S/D thief. Definitly not if they just stay on the Bow, lol. Unless the Warrior pulls out a Hammer or GS or some other weapon that can actually deal a fair bit of burst, they’re not going to beat a half-decent S/D thief that easy. The field is a nuisance, but that’s it.
Heck, you could also just flick on the Shortbow and kite on the side of the field and pressure with Poison field, some Clusters and simple AA’s.

Well, I personally have the most issues with a warrior that happens to catch me in a stun-lock with a Hammer. I fought this warrior earlier who used Axe/Shield & Hammer, he didn’t hit very hard, but he just kept me pinned down, unable to do anything, which made him win (sadly, my stunbreaks were on cooldown).
A thief’s strongest weapon is the mobility, if you take that away from the Thief, they’re easy pickings.

robertul.3679:

Daywolf.2630:

your target is now immobile

I don’t think you know what cripple actually does. You confuse it with immobilize. That’s another condition. Here’s a helpful link: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Condition

It’s quite possible to run Panic Strike on D/D, in fact… When I run D/D, I go 6/6/2/0/0 for Panic Strike taking only Cloaked in Shadow in Shadow Arts for the Blind on Stealth as the only defensive mechanism which works quite well for some (usually unranked) compositions.
Last time I checked, D/P didn’t have an inherrent Immobilize either, you might be confused with P/D?

Initial stun from Stealing into your enemy with Basi Venom, followed by a CnD while moving to the back, going for the Backstab, have Panic Strike’s Immobilize Proc.
It’s not that different from D/P really.

Jayden Ennok.3687:

Also, average pvper is much better at denying CnD than average wvwer. You can wep stow to save ini but in a fight, it’s so easy to lose cos of 1 denied CnD. With D/P, there are still options, D/D is just very limited.

Play D/D for a while and stowing the weapon becomes a second nature so really, that’s not much of an issue.
Also, you do realise that the majority of “WvW-ers” also play PvP, right?
While it’s true that they don’t play PvP as much as a “PvP-er”, most of the folk there have high ranks and good ratios in terms of win/loss because of them knowing how to fight in group compositions just as well, if not better, than a “PvP-er”.

I said it before that I agree that D/P is the better option, but when people give bad intel, something has to be said :P
The points you two mentioned can both be overcome and are issues based on the player’s “skill”, rather than the weapon set.

Yeah, any bouncing attacks will kind of screw you over big time when you use Ogre runes xD

I personally prefer Pack Runes, or as a cheap (and ztill good) alternative Runes of the Eagle.
Strength runes are amazing and I’d recommend those solely for the might stacking potential. The lack of precision is too big of a deal for my liking.

At any rate, I highly advice you to not use the Ogre Runes.
Any */D player gets a target to easily stealth off, the damage is a bit underwhelming (both the 4% and the dog) and that dog gives away your position way too often.
It’s for similar reasons that I don’t like the Pirate Runes.

Invigorating Precision is good indeed, especially with pistol whip! I actually use that trait to solo camps and towers in WvW (haven’t had the chance to solo a keep yet).
Trying the trait against players… I don’t see why not. I’ll give it a shot

Thaddeus.4891:

T raw.4658:

S/D vs D/P 1v1 advantage goes to S/D.

Group play where all you are doing is spiking targets <50% health D/P is better.

The reason you are seeing more D/P in the meta is honestly IMHO the condi clear.

I think the reason is more about the Blind. Stomping is one of the most important thing in group fight in PvP and the Skill 5 is really good for that. The capability of D/P to finish off low health foe is also a big plus. It just work best in the current meta.

Because hitting #5 for CnD is much harder than hitting #5 for a smoke field? Or worse, #5 > #2 to be completely sure.
Heck, the standard D/D build has Blind on Stealth, we might aswell run that then.
You have a point on the stomps in that You can use #4 on x/P to interrupt an enemy who’s stomping a teammate of yours, but the thing you posted isn’t very logical :P

Everything seems to be well represented, casual play is heavily affected by the class-bound dailies where you often get 3 players using the same class.

In casual play you also see that Necro’s and Rangers are actually pretty well represented as oposed to anything pre-made.

Like the rest said, we’re facing a point where ele’s get represented less and less. They’re still good though! They’re not in that boat with the Rangers where “they’re not bad, the rest is just better” quite yet (luckily!).

You could take a look at the ESL videos on twitch for general top-tier team compositions: http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/profile/past_broadcasts

D/D is only really seen in Solo Roaming.
As soon as the Thieves roam in a team (havoc, roam or focus) they will still opt for D/P for the exact reasons I mentioned earlier.
Another significant difference is the fact that stats can get way higher than in PvP (Dr Gonzo mentioned this) but also because the CnD skill does a lot more damage in PvE and WvW areas than it does in PvP (you’ll have to check the exact number on the wiki).
It’s quite possible to burst down a tanky guardian depending on what you got running.

So, because stealth is fairly irrelevant for WvW, the fact that you don’t really recieve a reward for helping you kan toch welallies, with that insanely strong burst makes it a very viable option to take and use.

You get revealed for every second you spend in the trap.
Shadowstep, Infiltrators’ Arrow, Infiltrators’ Return, a source that knocks you out of it or simply walking out of the trap will allow you to stealth again.

It was all explained pretty clearly…
It’s a bit like the Ring of Warding, but easier. Whereas that ring doesn’t allow you to walk out, you CAN port out of it. The same goes for the trap.

So yeah, get out, wait a second, happily re-enter stealth.
Sure you’ll have taken a bit of damage, but it’s not as bad as you make it out to be.

Just don’t be stupid and play in the trap.

D/D really survives due to sheer overpowering of enemies (6/6/2/0/0, maybe 4/6/4/0/0) any other build, like those who go deep into shadow arts rely on stealth too much and therefor are hardly a threat since they spend so much time out of combat).
D/D really just brings that one thing to the team table: Burst Damage.

D/P on the other hand brings more to the team by allowing group stealth should it be needed without “wasting” long cooldowns for it. Interrupting (stomps, skills like channels or heals), the ability to close longer gaps which also brings easier blinds which is always a good bit of defense for your entire group etc.

Not to mention… D/P is simply a lot easier to play because it has easy out of combat stealth (better survivability) and is not as dependant on positioning.
And Deathblossom is honestly terrible effect/initiative wise.

So in pvP, people will usually bring D/P because your playing in a team.

D/D is hella fun to play though! I try to play at least one unranked match a day with D/D.
Actually, if I fight a team with a lot of squishy targets I will sometimes opt for D/D in unranked. Mostly S/D, sometimes D/P and a lot of love for D/D ^^

@Sizzle Hint
D/D has stronger burst than D/P, but yeah… That’s the only thing it’s better at! xD

I actually still prefer to take S/D because of how it allows me to be more of a constant presence. I also find that properly played S/D is much less predictable and therefor harder to fight against than D/P because of how it doesn’t rely on Stealth as much and so isn’t is to a fixed time (or a waste of initiative) during which they can put pressure.
But yeah, I just pick S/D, D/P or even D/D depending on the situation I’m in.
So I wouldn’t necessarily say that D/P phased out S/D, I think it’s got more to do with more people preferring the D/P playstyle.

But in 1v1, the D/P is more likely to win, yes.

The fact that it’s called Dragonhunter makes me consider to roll a Guardian, it’s that ‘Gothic 2’ (well, the entire series rather!) nostalgia kicking in!
I loved those kitten Dragon Hunters there

So long as ‘Cloaked in Shadow’ is there (AoE blind on Stealth) is there, D/D will work.
Don’t know what the fuss is about.

Darksyze, if you already “no longer laugh at this joke profession” would you mind to just shush entirely? All I see from you is posts that make absolutely no sense at all, they don’t appeal to reason and they add nothing at all to any of the discussions you posted on.

So do yourself a favour and us a favour and just stop visiting this part of the forums?
I’m sure you could spend your time in a better way.

You got to realize that even if these “bugs and exploits”, or “hacks” even (lol?) were to be removed, we could still do the exact same things but with a minor delay or in a different form, right? Besides, ArenaNet wouldn’t have the slightest benefit in removing these things because of the simple fact that they do add more depth to their game wether it’s intended or not. Otherwise we could also qq about how Eles can swap attunement while channeling and other simple stuff like that.

If you do manage to cook up an opinion or have something useful to add to the discussion(s), then feel free to! Otherwise I’d highly recommend and encourage you to stop making a fool out of yourself.

Wether intended or not, there’s ‘tricks’ for some weapon sets that add more depth to your own gameplay.
Best shush about it and enjoy it.

MonkeyButtFace.4862:

Oh I see how it is, leaving out necro.

Sorry but necro is hardly an issue unless they play the condi game. I did make a mention about condi burst though :P

If the OP has questions about necro, I supose I’ll edit and add it to my previous post :P

Ok… Did whoever who posted the “niche situations” ever actually even used it like that, or was it an attempt at finding use in something that’s quite obviously bad? And do you still use it now?
I got nothing against people using it in PvE, but like Vavume, I let any thief using it in WvW know that it’s because of that trait, that I knew their exact location of death. (same thing with scrubs that use minis…)
I’d hate having to avoid the 20% deception reduction because of this mash up.

Terrorsquad (or Denied Guild Wars) has several instructional videos on PvP: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/PvP-Guide-for-new-Thiefs-in-Ranked-Arenas

On his channel you’ll also find good instructions on a few build variations.
(I’d recommend to watch those of all classes. If you know what you’re facing, you’re better equipped against it).

But the best easy stop would be Geir’s ‘Book of Shadows’: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Guide-Book-of-Shadows-The-Thief-Handbook/first
It might be dull to read and possibly slightly outdated, there’s some pure golden stuff in there.

You can actually run any D/P build as a P/D player pretty easily.
Plays different but it’s more enjoyable to me (not caring about ingame respect a lot, but dire thing just gets very boring).
You could get creative yourself with things like the Ricochet and make pretty good zerg builds if you enjoy that.

So yeah, you could go for a Berserker (with some Valkyrie) build using P/D on something like 6/0/2/0/6, 2/6/0/0/6, 4/6/4/0/0.
But yeah… Dire will bore you after a bit and really has no learning curve or skill ceilling. So I’d recommend you try to cook up something of your own once you grow accustomed to Thief mechanics again.

Mesmers… Dodge THROUGH their Illusions when you notice them coming towards you for the shatter (which is a lot of their dps). You got easier stealth access so make use of it. CnD of the illusions or do the Smoke Field with Heartseeker etc.
Simply the fact that they don’t know your location negates a lot of their damage potential and increases your chance of a good (re-)opening on them. Attacks that ricochet/bounce of targets are good against their standard illusions to clean up the area.

Against warriors… Playing S/D you shouldn’t random dodge, only dodge when you see the attack coming.
If you play D/P, just blind them with #3 or use the whirling axe steal in your #5 for high damage and near invulnerability from the rapid blinds it gives.

Engi approach depends on the build they run. An Engi who puts heavy Condi presure will only be able to be beaten comfortably by catching them off-guard. That can be done with stealth or unexpected shadowsteps, or a combination of those. That actually kind of goes for all heavy Condi burst builds regardless of profession.
Turret Engi’s are much less of an instant avoid now but the approach I take to them stays the same. I crush their toys before moving in. Drop a poison field with SB #4 and put pressure with auto attacks and Cluster Bkmbs on #2, make sure to explode them, the bleeding works more wonders on the turrets than the AoE weakness does.
A more Power oriented Engi is a matter of blinding them and using stealth in a clever way that doesn’t blow your initiative.
If you run Panic Strike or got access to another option to Immobilize (sword #2, SB stealth attack, pistol #2), try to immobilize them in the Gunk you steal from them for some extra Condi pressure. You can alse blast it or leap through it for chaos armor, or even use a projectile or whirl finisher (dagger storm for example) to stack Confusion on them for added pressure.

Guardians are the same as Warrior really…
Blinds are your best defense. If you fight a Medi Guard, use ranged to kite them, then burst them when they switch to scepter or sword.
If you can, start with steal if you’re traited with Bountiful Theft to take their Aegis and other defensive boons they’re likely to have up.
A great way to burst them is to hold the mace that you steal from them, until you know you can steal from them again, should you use that mace. Basilisk Venom, hit, F1 for mace daze, hit, F1 for second steal, hit, hit, F1 for mace daze, hit, hit, hit. They will either have to blow through their utilities, or you’ll get about 7seconds in which you can freely burst.

Thief… Simply be a better one.
Many thieves are predictable, just think about what you would do in their situation and adapt.
If you can predict, adapt, adjust, anticipate their moves while staying unpredictable yourself, you’re likely to win.
If you run Mug (and Improvisation) in Deadly Arts and/or go deep into Trickery, Steal can be key to victory.
Really… If you play thief long enough, fighting another thief will just become a game of timing.
As an S/D Thief, evade when a D/* Thief has stealthed, throw them off by using shadowsteps you might have available sword #2 return, SB #5, if you’re in a real tight spot you can also use the utility etc.
You can maintain pressure with the shortbow and use the #3’s for evade (both on S/D and SB, try not to waste dodges for no reason, ever, not even on this would-be perma-evade build.

Hope that helps

BFMV.3198:

learn to play and fight

Funny to say that when SR is such a crutch in it’s current state allready.

They’re making a pretty overpowered trait more overpowered than it is allready. Unlike the invulnerabilities etc. that Guardians and Warriors and the likes have, this trait makes one quite litterally unbeatable when played well.

The issue with SR is, is that it promotes passive playing quite a bit.
I’d like to see the health regen coming from it heavily reduced. Maybe then we’ll see it being unbanned from the 1v1 arenas and all that.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m glad that Thieves get something we’ll recieve more salt and QQ for again.
But to be fair, the trait is most definitly OP, making bad players seem like good players and making good players close to invincible unless they get pretty heavily outnumbered. So yeah, I do understand where all the ranting is coming from.
Besides, it’s not like you need it… I play S/D (2/0/0/6/6), D/P (2/6/0/0/6) and D/D (4/6/4/0/0) and do quite fine provided I don’t do anything stupid. The Condi cleansing (and blinds for D/D survival) is/are great, but the initiative regen and health regen are just… meh. Let alone when they are combined…

Oh well… I supose the update ( in case this stays unchanged) will actually make Thief a newbie friendly class. But I really think that atleast the health regen could do with a bit of a stomp.

Flanking Strike + Steal is good when you’re fighting a staff necro standing on his marks, you port to him and just destroy his toys and watch his sweet bitter tears of panic as you can hit with Larcenous strike real soon after, still doing good damage while taking none

Other than that, Neferjrangh pretty much nailed the “combo’s”. Much of the S/D “burst” also relies on the proccing of Air and Fire sigils and the fact that it’s a weapon set that allows you to put constant presure instead of actual burst.
It simply plays differently, but with a few lucky procs, you can do a lot of damage and “burst” a squishy target in seconds.