Guild Wars 2

I hope we all can agree on some necessary fixes for deadeye.
A trait for cantrip CD reduction for example. The CD’s are not low, and hardly justified for their effect (just think about healing skill…which is simply not worth taking at all). As addition to one in the chamber for example.
Personally I believe any cast time on kneel and mark destroys any flow, and I’d rather see them removed completely.
Some tweaks are also necessary, maybe thinking about the initiative for example, or velocity of the projectiles (and especially cursed bullet).
And malice…I think malice should also affect conditions (maybe not in terms of damage but…something) right now it’s doing nothing.
Also personally malice builds up way too slow.
Furthermore I think it is unnecessary to remove all malice stacks AND stolen when your enemy dies/moves too far. Maybe a kind of over time removal, just like adrenaline of warrior (maybe not that fast).
Range should also be addressed. Increasing from 1200 to 1500 and kneeling too 1750 or even 1800, or 1200 mobile and 1750 while kneeling. It is…disappointing, that a Soulbeast can burst better at 1500 than a deadeye.
Last point, and most controversial I guess, I believe kneel should be sniper’s cover untraited. Maybe replace this with a cantrip reduction trait.
Also maybe a viable option for some unblockable attack. Nothing too strong but…with all those reflects/blocks/projectice destruction deadeye is literally useless in larger wvw fights and can easily be shut down by just pressing a single button, making the whole spec useless.
I hope there was no salt included.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

Skill level a side, I know most thives in our mu in wvw and core s/d pretty much farmed them. But it’s also easy to get bursted down.

I didn’t play too much of any new specs but so far from what i have seen weaver/holo/mirage and scourge seem pretty solid. Let’s see what the next beta test brings (if there is a next 1)

There won’t be, and this weekend was no beta tbh. It was a preview, so I assume what we saw and tested will be what we get. No overhauls will happen I guess.

Rangerdeity.5847:

Deadeye is coming its short on mobility but its probably the single most powerful 1v1 spec

BWAHAHAHAHA
no really, deadeye is not even nearly good for 1v1, except bad players.

babazhook.6805:

Shtark.7250:

It sounds like we were playing different classes altogether, I’m gonna link a post a made some days ago if you wanna check it out, I explain things with much more detail there, but to sum it up, I played a large amount of matches during the preview weekend with DE, I think around 100 or so, I can easily say that I did not find myself stressing over anything that you guys stated above:
Rifle does insane amounts of damage, I’ve been able to bring down druids/necros/guard in around 10 seconds if they were not careaful, I was doing 3,5k crits with autoattack, and around 13k with Judgment.
Defensively, I’ve never been caught a single time when I did things right, I do kitten up here and there with skills (hitting a target while trying to get away in stealth, etc) and end up getting killed, but aside from those, I literally left even daredevils in the dust trying to catch me using stealth, shadowstep and retreat. For a detailed explanation please read the Defense part of the post that I made.
POST: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Deadeye-Build-Thoughts/first#post6714664

I concur and your experiences much like my own. I did not find surival as bad as being stated as there ample stealth and other utility to effect such.

But even there are a few necessary fixes I hope we all can agree on.
A trait for cantrip CD reduction for example. The CD’s are not low, and hardly justified for their effect (just think about healing skill…which is simply not worth taking at all). As addition to one in the chamber for example.
Personally I believe any cast time on kneel and mark destroys any flow, and I’d rather see them removed completely.
Some tweaks are also necessary, maybe thinking about the initiative for example, or velocity of the projectiles (and especially cursed bullet).
And malice…I think malice should also affect conditions (maybe not in terms of damage but…something) right now it’s doing nothing.
Also personally malice builds up too slow.
Furthermore I think it is unnecessary to remove all malice stacks AND stolen when your enemy dies/moves too far. Maybe a kind of over time removal, just like adrenaline of warrior (maybe not that fast).
Range should also be addressed. Increasing from 1200 to 1500 and kneeling too 1750 or even 1800, or 1200 mobile and 1750 while kneeling. It is…disappointing, that a Soulbeast can burst better at 1500 than a deadeye.
Last point, and most controversial I guess, I believe kneel should be sniper’s cover untraited. Maybe replace this with a cantrip reduction trait.
I hope there was no salt included.

babazhook.6805:

Lucente.5071:

Hi everyone,

Here are my thoughts on the Deadeye, with youtube video included! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIW_vwXP4Z8&feature=youtu.be
TLDR
Stolen Skills need adjusting/buffing. Would like to see self cast instead of requiring a target.
The class needs more defensive options as it is easy to get jumped on.
The 3rd trait in each tier needs to be adjusted to stolen skills as they do not work very well.
Love how the class plays in small group fights. Doesnt work well for roaming solo or zergs.
May have some use in PVE with the malice mechanic but it is overall slow in WvW

What do you guys think?

Thanks.

I had initially thought the steal skills as weak but after reflection and some theorycrafting have concluded here more there then meets the eye and in particular if you trait properly.

Things to remember

MERCY This resets your steal. You can get two steals in short order. Now Imagine this used with S/d in Acro also getting a reset. Thats three steals in a row with poison apps and mug and any other on steal traits.

RENEWING GAZE. Your steal is reset when you kill your opponent. This is huge as again you can instantly use all those on steal traits again. Very often if you are fighting in WvW you can be crippled early in a fight if you just expended your steal and resources to down an enemy and a second or thrid come around. You can hvae that steal available instantly rather then wait for it to come off cooldown.

So to the stolen items themselves and divorcing them from all the added effects they can apply when used (such as peripheral vision).

With a mercy reset and a renewing gaze reset, assuming one is traited in Improv and picking Steal Resistance (Revenant skill)

1>Condition and boon durations of the base skill are increased without any boon duration or condition duration in your build where the number of malice stacks gives a significant increase per.

2>Using Improv , and mercy and assuming an on death reset.

3>You are not traited in s/x wherein you can get yet another reset via Swinderls.

You get 4 applications of 3 stacks torment for 12 stacks total at 8 seconds each.
You get 4 applications of resistance at 3 seconds each.

This BEFORE boon and condition duration increased via malice stacks.

That is NOT sub par.

How does Malice increase condi duration at all?

saerni.2584:

• https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revealed_Malice
• https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Perfectionist
• https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fire_for_Effect
• https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deadeye%27s_Mark

At full Malice you receive:

• Fury (10s): 20% Critical Chance
• Might x10 (10s): +300 Power, +300 Condition Damage
• Protection (5s): -33% Incoming Damage
• Regen (10s): 1,300 Heal
• Swiftness (10s): 33% Movement Speed
• Vigor (10s): +50% Endurance Regeneration

And under Fire for Effect you can gain another 10 stacks of Might on using stolen skills. Further, most of the stolen skills apply useful boons like protection, aegis, resistance and quickness.

The Might is what makes it better than Consume Plasma. And it gives most of the core benefits regardless of who we are targeting. The Perfectionist boons don’t even require us to actually hit our target with our Mark. We can have the Mark blocked (no stolen skill) and still start generating Malice and ultimately get the Perfectionist boons.

At full malice. When malice reaches the last charge either you or your enemy is already dead.

Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497:

Wargameur.6950:

Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497:

Asur.9178:

Every single one of the new stolen items are trash.

Consume Ectoplasm itself trumps the entire set of new stolen items.

As I said before, they spent all their time, effort, and creativity on the classes they have favoured since GW1 and just smacked on rifle, to please the vocal minority open world PvEers, and called it a day.

Worst espec in this expansion, followed closely by Renegade (based on what we saw in the demo).

You must have never used them properly again..

Whirl, Added DPS, and projectile reflect. SUUUPER useful against rangers.
Mace Head Crack: It’s a freaking daze! It’ll stop them from harming you for a few precious seconds and it’s a free interrupt!
Steal thing from Revenant SLOOOOWS! How is that worthless when our enemy can’t can’t escape the kitten?
Throw gunk… is admitably meh if you are not built for conditions.
Healing Seed, it’s a free bit of sustain. That’s the difference of you winning a fight or not.

My favorite will always be Necromancer’s. Fear. I ALLLLLWAYS hold onto this fun little thing. Find a Zerg next to a cliff. Sneak up on them and pop that skull. Watch the kills rack up as a bunch of people go running off of the cliff to their deaths.

And I don’t know if you ever payed attention to the videos of the thief before the game released. But that steal ability is also good for letting the thief run off to some random ass mob in the middle of a fight, test his luck on what he grabs and comes back to blow someone’s head off with a rifle he stole from a moa.

He is talking about the new stolen skills not the current ones.

Ooooh… They aren’t too bad. Stolen Time is basically a free Aclarity.

How is stolen time even close you alacrity? It has literally nothing in common.

saerni.2584:

I think Deadeye will find a place in the meta. Whether it will be dominant or less common remains to be seen.

Some thoughts:

• Malice builds up much faster if you build around stealth attacks.
• Like Daredevil, most competitive builds probably won’t use rifle as primary weapon anyways.
• Rifle is clunky at the moment but mostly that can be fixed with some minor changes. I’ll wait to see if they fix locking you into the kneel position.
• Condition builds for Deadeye are actually pretty strong. Both using and not using the rifle as part of the build.
• I think Deadeye is stronger than Daredevil.

LOL
even pistol outdps rifle by far, how will deadeye even come close to daredevil?
what makes deadeye stronger in your eyes? the new underwhelming steal skills? slow building malice?

saerni.2584:

Once you get max malice you effectively get most of consume plasma for free. Every time you mark them and get max malice.

Like, if you survive long enough the payoff is much better than a single consume plasma.

Malice builds up way too slow, even when non stop attack your target.
and you don’t get “most” you get one of those boons. ONE

Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497:

I agree with Sons. Deadeye’s Steal replacement is fine.

Consume plasma is literally all of the new stolen skills. at once.

Sons.5493:

Or you can adapt to the DE playstyle or go back to playing DRD.

Love it or leave. You have no right to tell anet what to do, even though you gave them your money! Love deadeye or shut your mouth.

/sarcasm

Lahmia.2193:

The 1/2s cast time on this feels very clunky to use. Needs a 1/4s cast time instead.

Needs a fully removed cast time and not being a projectile.

Lucente.5071:

Hi everyone,

Here are my thoughts on the Deadeye, with youtube video included! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIW_vwXP4Z8&feature=youtu.be
TLDR
Stolen Skills need adjusting/buffing. Would like to see self cast instead of requiring a target.
The class needs more defensive options as it is easy to get jumped on.
The 3rd trait in each tier needs to be adjusted to stolen skills as they do not work very well.
Love how the class plays in small group fights. Doesnt work well for roaming solo or zergs.
May have some use in PVE with the malice mechanic but it is overall slow in WvW

What do you guys think?

Thanks.

I am very concerned, that deadeye won’t have any competitive place anywhere. Malice builds up too slow, and stays not long enough, new stolen skills are extremly underwhelming.
Rifle is clunky, and lacks nearly anything useful. Beside a very good spec like daredevil, deadeye won’t have an easy time beside trolling pve players in wvw. at any other place (except open world) daredevil does better and more safely.

rogerwilko.6895:

hopefully more players will use this build in pvp >:)
or who knows, even wvw!

bwahahaha

It was never easier to get a free kill

Tora.7214:

Ashanor.5319:

Tora.7214:

Ashanor.5319:

I enjoyed the Deadeye, but it does have some issues that need to be addressed. It needs to feel more fluid for one. Range needs to be increased a bit also.

It allready has the highest range available of any other weapon in game, even longbow ranger

honestly, im finding it fun, the sole reason why im farming for the predator now.

its interesting how the skill cap is different in pvp with deadeye, with other classes, you have to have knowledge of your character attacks, rotations, and best way to use fields in order to dish damage.

with deadeye however, it does not requires skill to do damage, the class does that easily by itself, no, the skill must come from learning when to attack, how to aproach, from where to attack, and most important, when and how to retreat to prepare for the next ambush.

they got the feeling of Sniping pretty well imo; position, ambush, reposition, ambush, etc

Looks like it is the same to me, but only when kneeling for Deadeye. Pretty sure Ranger used to have higher range than 1500 with a trait, but I haven’t played in a long time.

ranger range used to be 900 with longbow, then 1200 with a trait, then it was changed to have base 1500, currently the only class who can shoot that far, now they will share the long range throne with deadeyes

While ranger is better at bursting, AOE, CC and utility at this range.

Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497:

reddie.5861:

what is point of this?

whole deadeye trait adds absolutely nothing to dual pistol..
u basically playing a handicapted pistol thief but since unload is strong it doesnt really show.

Only a few items in the deadeye tree are specific to the rifle. Everything else affects everything else.

Malice adds extra damage to all weapons in the thief’s kit that he can use while Deadeye is an active trait line.

Combined with “Be Fast or Be Killed” It gives you 4 seconds of quickness which increases the speed of abilities, lowers their cool downs, and the thief’s case increases the speed at which he recovers initiative.

Take Trickery which not only gives you extra inititive and initiative on steal. But it also gives you “Lesser Haste” which also gives quickness.

Take Roll for Initiative or haste. And you become a kittening machine gun thief. You’ll hit 42000+ damage in a span of three seconds.

For melee you’ll take either Sword and Dagger, Sword and Pistol, or Dagger and Pistol. Each one of these gives you a different style of play and a means to really ruin someone’s day when they get too close to you.

You have access to a blind in all of your weapon choices.

Please stop talking about thief, you clearly have no clue about this game at all.
Quickness does not lower cooldowns, quickness does not increases initiative regeneration, quickness does not increases velocity of projectiles, just lower cast time.
Trickery is mandatory for thief literally since release, those extra initiative is unavoidable.
You are basically saying, “take something that is not rifle” in second weapon slot. Thanks sherlock, thank you.

babazhook.6805:

BTW rifle has an unblockable attack. Cursed bulet is unblockable at 1500 range granting a 20 percent damage increase if kneeling and a 20 percent increase in critical chance if kneeling. If filled to the max in Malice this means 20 and 21 percent damage increases on an unblockable.

This attack costs all of one INI plus one for the kneel and also converts two boons into conditions.

If one wished they could also trait Basi venom wherein the attack from Deaths Judgement can be made unblockable.

Cursed bullet is so laughable slow, most people will avoid it by simply walking out of range.

Mark does not affect condi damage though, so you are pretty limited to pistol #3 and power builds

TwiceDead.1963:

babazhook.6805:

Warrost.4895:

babazhook.6805:

Warrost.4895:

babazhook.6805:

Orpheal.8263:

whats the point of a silly sniper class, when it ends up being more effectively played out with all other weapons, except the rifle??

A sniper class to have is only worth it and not a massive fail, when playing with a sniper rifle is in the end also to the most effective build to play with, because if you use any other weapons with a spec like this, then you don’t have a sniper anymore, but just only a generic wannabe something that is of nothing half and nothing full.

ANet localized the class for german basically “Sniper” (Scharfschütze)… and as a such it makes no sense to run around with Daggers n Pistols or with Swords, only due to the traits and utility skills/class mechanics making these weapons most effective with this Spec, when in fact the whole E-Spec should be designed around the fact, that they shold be played the most effectively with their designed to weapon – the rifle, because without rifle, there we have no sniper anymore, but instead just undefined nonsense.

Sort of like how d/p users all use Drd?

I do not get your point. A spec line HAS to work with other weaponsets or ir limits diversity and your suggestion all sets play better then Rifle in DE is simply not the case.

Rifle does what it was designed to do very well.

Being useless against any decent player/outside of open world PvE?

Yea yea, you just happen to face all the good players. Keep telling yourself that. You are about the miserable person on these boards with a history of denigrating virtually everything about Gw@. In fact months ago you claimed the game as dead and going nowhere yet here you are trying to spread your misery to others all these months later.

Translation: I have no arguments, so I attack the person behind that. That is really mature behavior.
Furthermore, I can remember ever claiming GW2 as dead. Please link me this comment.

Ni , that is YOUR translation. I have already given my arguments and you respond with your one line nonsense lines that do nothing to refute the same.

Nice try.

Forget it. Leave him to his misery. He’s just been trolling the boards this weekend, with 90% of his posts offering nothing of value.

GW2’s toxic community goes on both directions
Everything is bad < – > Any form of criticism is basically salt and misery and just kitten and be grateful
What does it say about a community, to mark anyone saying something bad about any of the saints from Anet or their work as an outcast?

babazhook.6805:

Warrost.4895:

babazhook.6805:

Warrost.4895:

babazhook.6805:

Orpheal.8263:

whats the point of a silly sniper class, when it ends up being more effectively played out with all other weapons, except the rifle??

A sniper class to have is only worth it and not a massive fail, when playing with a sniper rifle is in the end also to the most effective build to play with, because if you use any other weapons with a spec like this, then you don’t have a sniper anymore, but just only a generic wannabe something that is of nothing half and nothing full.

ANet localized the class for german basically “Sniper” (Scharfschütze)… and as a such it makes no sense to run around with Daggers n Pistols or with Swords, only due to the traits and utility skills/class mechanics making these weapons most effective with this Spec, when in fact the whole E-Spec should be designed around the fact, that they shold be played the most effectively with their designed to weapon – the rifle, because without rifle, there we have no sniper anymore, but instead just undefined nonsense.

Sort of like how d/p users all use Drd?

I do not get your point. A spec line HAS to work with other weaponsets or ir limits diversity and your suggestion all sets play better then Rifle in DE is simply not the case.

Rifle does what it was designed to do very well.

Being useless against any decent player/outside of open world PvE?

Yea yea, you just happen to face all the good players. Keep telling yourself that. You are about the miserable person on these boards with a history of denigrating virtually everything about Gw@. In fact months ago you claimed the game as dead and going nowhere yet here you are trying to spread your misery to others all these months later.

Translation: I have no arguments, so I attack the person behind that. That is really mature behavior.
Furthermore, I can remember ever claiming GW2 as dead. Please link me this comment.

Ni , that is YOUR translation. I have already given my arguments and you respond with your one line nonsense lines that do nothing to refute the same.

Nice try.

>claiming I ever said something about the person behind the comment
>saying you brought arguments
>claiming I never made a valid argument
>ignoring the second part of my comment
Quality work going on here.

But I think this is going to far away of the topic, since we are not apes throwing excrements at each other

DeceiverX.8361:

Warrost.4895:

Acheron.4576:

i find it fun, opinions are opinions. if you don’t like DE then why not just stick with DrD?

I am sure some nerfs will help deadeye be a viable option to daredevil, and a reason to buy pof.

Lol, nerfs to what?

DrD is still very competitive with the rest of the game, if not still on the stronger side.

This is just how snipers need to be. If you’re not positioned right and everything doesn’t go perfectly, you’re dead. Else it ends up overpowered because then it’s safe and lacks counterplay.

Many people demanded this concept, and a number of players foretold of the consequences that come with this except kind of concept.

I agree. DrD is atm very strong. But how do you sell a new product, if the existing is better nearly everywhere?

babazhook.6805:

Warrost.4895:

babazhook.6805:

Orpheal.8263:

whats the point of a silly sniper class, when it ends up being more effectively played out with all other weapons, except the rifle??

A sniper class to have is only worth it and not a massive fail, when playing with a sniper rifle is in the end also to the most effective build to play with, because if you use any other weapons with a spec like this, then you don’t have a sniper anymore, but just only a generic wannabe something that is of nothing half and nothing full.

ANet localized the class for german basically “Sniper” (Scharfschütze)… and as a such it makes no sense to run around with Daggers n Pistols or with Swords, only due to the traits and utility skills/class mechanics making these weapons most effective with this Spec, when in fact the whole E-Spec should be designed around the fact, that they shold be played the most effectively with their designed to weapon – the rifle, because without rifle, there we have no sniper anymore, but instead just undefined nonsense.

Sort of like how d/p users all use Drd?

I do not get your point. A spec line HAS to work with other weaponsets or ir limits diversity and your suggestion all sets play better then Rifle in DE is simply not the case.

Rifle does what it was designed to do very well.

Being useless against any decent player/outside of open world PvE?

Yea yea, you just happen to face all the good players. Keep telling yourself that. You are about the miserable person on these boards with a history of denigrating virtually everything about Gw@. In fact months ago you claimed the game as dead and going nowhere yet here you are trying to spread your misery to others all these months later.

Translation: I have no arguments, so I attack the person behind that. That is really mature behavior.
Furthermore, I can remember ever claiming GW2 as dead. Please link me this comment.

Rifle need an unblockable option and piercing should be mandatory on all skills, at least autoattack.
Right know rifle is missing utility, reliable CC, AOE capability, fast bullets and damage beside unrealistic 7 Malice Death`s Judgement.
Sniper’s cover need to be core, and removed ini costs, but I think that’d be too far.
Trait to reduce cantrip CD.
Mark no projectile, but instant cast without line of sight.
Kneel should be a class mechanic and effecting other weapons as well, as well as being snipers cover by default to help with those underwhelming new stolen skills.

Regeneration is a really underwhelming boon. But Anet has no problems including it in new traits, which is just a joke.
I doubt they will even touch acrobatics again.

Acheron.4576:

i find it fun, opinions are opinions. if you don’t like DE then why not just stick with DrD?

I am sure some nerfs will help deadeye be a viable option to daredevil, and a reason to buy pof.

babazhook.6805:

Orpheal.8263:

whats the point of a silly sniper class, when it ends up being more effectively played out with all other weapons, except the rifle??

A sniper class to have is only worth it and not a massive fail, when playing with a sniper rifle is in the end also to the most effective build to play with, because if you use any other weapons with a spec like this, then you don’t have a sniper anymore, but just only a generic wannabe something that is of nothing half and nothing full.

ANet localized the class for german basically “Sniper” (Scharfschütze)… and as a such it makes no sense to run around with Daggers n Pistols or with Swords, only due to the traits and utility skills/class mechanics making these weapons most effective with this Spec, when in fact the whole E-Spec should be designed around the fact, that they shold be played the most effectively with their designed to weapon – the rifle, because without rifle, there we have no sniper anymore, but instead just undefined nonsense.

Sort of like how d/p users all use Drd?

I do not get your point. A spec line HAS to work with other weaponsets or ir limits diversity and your suggestion all sets play better then Rifle in DE is simply not the case.

Rifle does what it was designed to do very well.

Being useless against any decent player/outside of open world PvE?

babazhook.6805:

Warrost.4895:

babazhook.6805:

Ramoth.9064:

Warrost.4895:

babazhook.6805:

Warrost.4895:

The initiative cost of rifle is too high.
If deadeye would offer a kind of faster initiative regen, this would shake up meta alot.

The costs are fine and in line with any other set if not cheaper for the effecs achieved.

since there are so many blocks and reflects and on top of that, gap closers literally everywhere, even costs of 0 wouldn’t help, since deadeye doesn’t have the possibility for unblocking attacks.

That’s the problem, the class is so all-or-nothing, it feels completely unrewarding. Either I completely tear you down with that utility cantrip that knocks down, spamming kneeled 2, or you have defenses up blocking/reflecting.

When you play thief D/P, its much more dynamic, you go in, do some damage, you get out, then you go back in. You can be very dynamic with the deadeye, i’ve vsed some players who are, teleporting about, but they are just not efficient, and they usually end up getting killed.

You have to unlearn DrD and relearn how to play without those extra dodges. If you get down to the basics when it comes to the ability to survive longer it pretty well all about the extra dodges and to a lesser extent Bandits defense.

It is a rethink as to how you fight. If they just made it like DrD with the same amount of dodges and evades , it hardly becomes a new spec.

That said keep in mind that DE is NOT rifle anymore then DrD is staff. You can use D/P specced to DE. You can still use Rifle at extreme range and when an enemy does close change to your preferred melee set.

Which doesn’t help the fact, that omnipresent blocks/reflects/deflects literally counter your whole weaponset and you have no possibility to play against this.

ALL classes have ranged users. if they were all countered to the degree you claim no one would play them.

I have been playing with rifle all weekend and suggesting “there no possibility” to play against this is ignorance. No one has permanent and a lot of professions have little to no access to reflects.

Sure, switch to melee. Ranged always had a hard time. You don’t need to have full time blocks/reflects, just enough to catch them. Atm the blocks offer that more than enough.

babazhook.6805:

Ramoth.9064:

Warrost.4895:

babazhook.6805:

Warrost.4895:

The initiative cost of rifle is too high.
If deadeye would offer a kind of faster initiative regen, this would shake up meta alot.

The costs are fine and in line with any other set if not cheaper for the effecs achieved.

since there are so many blocks and reflects and on top of that, gap closers literally everywhere, even costs of 0 wouldn’t help, since deadeye doesn’t have the possibility for unblocking attacks.

That’s the problem, the class is so all-or-nothing, it feels completely unrewarding. Either I completely tear you down with that utility cantrip that knocks down, spamming kneeled 2, or you have defenses up blocking/reflecting.

When you play thief D/P, its much more dynamic, you go in, do some damage, you get out, then you go back in. You can be very dynamic with the deadeye, i’ve vsed some players who are, teleporting about, but they are just not efficient, and they usually end up getting killed.

You have to unlearn DrD and relearn how to play without those extra dodges. If you get down to the basics when it comes to the ability to survive longer it pretty well all about the extra dodges and to a lesser extent Bandits defense.

It is a rethink as to how you fight. If they just made it like DrD with the same amount of dodges and evades , it hardly becomes a new spec.

That said keep in mind that DE is NOT rifle anymore then DrD is staff. You can use D/P specced to DE. You can still use Rifle at extreme range and when an enemy does close change to your preferred melee set.

Which doesn’t help the fact, that omnipresent blocks/reflects/deflects literally counter your whole weaponset and you have no possibility to play against this.

Wargameur.6950:

Asur.9178:

babazhook.6805:

Warrost.4895:

babazhook.6805:

Warrost.4895:

The initiative cost of rifle is too high.
If deadeye would offer a kind of faster initiative regen, this would shake up meta alot.

The costs are fine and in line with any other set if not cheaper for the effecs achieved.

since there are so many blocks and reflects and on top of that, gap closers literally everywhere, even costs of 0 wouldn’t help, since deadeye doesn’t have the possibility for unblocking attacks.

This a learn to play issue. I play p/p as well and manage to get around all of those blocks and reflcts without spending 0 ini on an attack.

Blocks by the way work just as well against DrD . The DRD spec does not make any attacks unblockable and there little in any weaponset that is unblockable.

1: The people you quoted are specifically talking about rifle.

2: Shadow Shot says hi.

the unblockable part from shadow shot does 0 damages…..

The shot itself deals like 25% of the total damage

babazhook.6805:

Warrost.4895:

The initiative cost of rifle is too high.
If deadeye would offer a kind of faster initiative regen, this would shake up meta alot.

The costs are fine and in line with any other set if not cheaper for the effecs achieved.

since there are so many blocks and reflects and on top of that, gap closers literally everywhere, even costs of 0 wouldn’t help, since deadeye doesn’t have the possibility for unblocking attacks.

The initiative cost of rifle is too high.
If deadeye would offer a kind of faster initiative regen, this would shake up meta alot.

Mysteries.3659:

Warrost.4895:

Beautiful times ahead.

Gonna be season of the Thief. Reminds me of when Dragonhunter when HoT originally dropped. There were two of them on every team, sometimes three, and it was viable. Deadeye feels like that, just, faster to get around too.

I see the nerfhammer coming somewhere down the road. Hopefully we get to actually play for awhile first, though.

Deadeye is a failed design though. I just hope Anet’s one-in-a-year look to thief won’t take too long.
Right know daredevil is clunky, rifle is just bs down the road, and nowhere near to dragonhunter. maybe in the lowest tiers of pvp and against pve players in wvw…but beyond that, deadeye fails miserably

AlphaWolvesGamer.5790:

TL-DR: Feedback and Opinions about the Deadeye Spec. I LOVE IT, but it feels Clunky.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
TL-DR Long version: Feedback about the clunkyness of the Deadeye Spec and possible fixes.

Feedback 1: Deadeye’s Mark Projectile feels awkward compared to Core Thief’s instant Stealing.
Suggestion 1: Chance Deadeye’s Mark to a faster projectile or instant with a 1/4 to 1/2 cast time.

Feedback 2: Silent Scope Mastery is essensial for Deadeye, but feels useless with weapon swap.
Suggestion 2: Change Kneel to Sniper’s Cover by detault and reward players for not moving w/out rifle.

Feedback 3: Kneeling feels clunky and awkward to micromanage and it’s easy for people to jump on you.
Suggestion 3: Dodge Rolling from Kneel removes the player from Kneeling.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
So, I’ve been absolutely loving the Deadeye Spec (Which appears to be an unpopular opinion on the forums and in game), and the class will probably be stealing my “main” from Guardian once it’s been released. The only negative thing I’m feeling about the class is how clunky the Rifle Mechanics are, and how you’re pigeon hold into a specific build for the Deadeye, mainly the fact you have to take X-1-X if you’re wanting to play it.

Firstly, lets talk about the traits. Rifle Proficiency…… YEEEESSSSSSSS!!!!!
Let’s me honest here, I wasn’t the only one who was shocked core rogue didn’t have access to the rifles. It seems like such a classic rogue weapon, and despite being slow, it hits for BIG numbers with a surprisingly decent DPS Power Build. Also, referenced from other threads, it makes a surprisingly good Condi Power hybrid.

Secondly, there is Deadeye’s Gaze, which feels extremely clunky in my opinion… I understand that with other combinations of powers, having an F1 “Deal instant damage from range without displacement” is a little overpowered, but comparing it to the original steal, it feels underwhelming. The first major problem with this is that its a projectile (and an extremely slow one at that) while the original steal is a point-and-click teleport option. But at the same time, the F2 feels a little weird being instantaneous without counter play other than “Dodge the mark!”.

A simple fix that I see could be applied would be giving Deadeye’s Mark (F1) functionality an instantaneous, or 1/2 second cast time, allowing the Thief to be still “interrupted” out of it, but at the same time, not be simply dodged 100% of the time or somehow blocked by environment (I seriously got “obstructed” from someone standing on stairs before). Secondly, transfer the projectile and “Stealing” Trait Mechanics to the “stolen skills” F2 ability, allowing for more of a counterplay once you’ve been marked, and allowing Deadeye’s Mark to be more powerful without being a “ranged poison damage without counter”. Just the fact that Deadeye’s Mark is a projectile while Thief’s Seal isn’t makes this feel extremely clunky.

Thirdly, it feels like the Silent Scope Mastery skill on the Deadeye Trait page is almost essensial, if not mandetory, for everyone who plans to take the Deadeye class (Let’s be honest here, if you’re becoming a Deadeye, you’re doing it for the rifle). A simple fix for this is to apply the Sniper’s Scope Mastery to “Kneel” without the Mastery. Have Kneel transform to Sniper’s Cover if you haven’t used it for 10-20 second, and remove the ammo counter. (It’ll also fix that awkward double 5 click people use for 2s stealth). Maybe change it to “If you haven’t moved for ‘%CounterNumber’ seconds, gain swiftness for ‘%BoonDuration’ seconds. Rifle skills critical hit chance is increased while kneeling”. This will make it so it doesn’t feel like I’m wasting 1/3 of my potential when weapon swaping just because I don’t have a rifle equiped. It also fixes some escape issues that I’ve found Deadeye’s having (both fighting against and fighting as).

Lastly is the clunkyness and awkwardness of the Kneeling mechanic itself. Considering you’re stuck when kneeling, you’re kind of SoL if someone jumps on you and CC locks you after the jump. Perhaps allowing them to remove kneel after a dodge roll. I understand not wanting to remove kneel from dodge roll, but I feel that a dodge roll should end the kneeling. Considering 90% of the time you’re dodge rolling while kneeling is to escape an attack, it feels like a Quality of life thing to automatically remove kneeling when you dodge roll backwards.

Those are just my open opinions on the class, and how to possibly remove the clunkyness (and the pidgeon hold x-1-x build you have to take if you want to play the rifle). Honestly, considering more than half the Deadeye’s mechanics are centered around the weapon is awkward to begin with, but I’m still loving the class despite its clunky feeling.

Is there a place I can post this feedback officially? lol

Nope. Even if there was a place, it’s way too late for changes. My guess is, that everything we “tested” this weekend, is what we get.
“Beautiful” times ahead for non thieves.

Zaerah.1630:

Imo rifle feels pretty good, it didn’t take long until kneeling and the slower animations began to feel quite natural. Daredevil during beta was clunky as kitten, Deadeye is fine.

Daredevil clunky, deadeye fine
kek

nacario.9417:

Phosphorite.6192:

Warrost.4895:

Congrats. It work in PvE.
Not like literally anything works in PvE, no matter how braindead played.

So? I was just pointing out, that not everything is bad about this new specialization or all the others. And braindead is pretty overstated. Besides, I’d say it’s a good thing that every kind of build can work. That encourages diversity which is way more fun than everybody running a snoringly boring meta-build.

The downside in pve tho is that the rifle brings no aoe and during events that yields loot from adds n swarms, the rifle with its singletarget n few piercing falls short, leaving the shortbow still the top lootstick.

Other than that it will be an ok wep for solo progress in PoF and some smallscale in wvw, but its curreny iteration sadly falls short in spvp

Rifle falls short everywhere, while deadeye is not as bad as purely rifle, it is still a joke compared to daredevil.

Luclinraider.2317:

I meant within the Thief class lol.

Sorry, I didn’t make that clear.

Best option for you would be to stay on daredevil. Deadeye won’t be meta or even viable anywhere.

Asur.9178:

Under the current DE implementation, if you’re bored of DD, you you try one of the other classes. DE is horrible for every aspect of the game except open world PvE…but really, literally everything works for that.

A lb Soulbeast can burst you harder in a shorter amount of time before you even have time to react from over 1500 range compared to DE with just 3 skills (elite – 4 – 2). Their auto attacks also hits for something like 3 times DE’s auto attack. Think I’m making this up? I’m not – I had a friend test it on me.

I think deadeye is scrapper 2.0…except scrapper is usefull in pvp, while deadeye won’t shine anywhere.

Can’t you read the comments yourself?
Of course you can win with a bad class if you are skilled enough.
Doesn’t change anything wrong with the class.

TwiceDead.1963:

Warrost.4895:

Phosphorite.6192:

You seem very dismissive to me. Everything I hear is “that sucks, this sucks, that’s not working, the DS is crap”. Pretty dismissive, isn’t it?

I have no illusions whatsoever that the DS isn’t perfect. None at all. All i’m saying is that it shouldn’t be written off as garbage before it’s even out properly.

Anet already showed, that tweaking and fixing stuff before a release (and even after) isn’t their strength.
I don’t want to wait six month’s to a year for deadeye’s problems were at least addressed.

Dude… Chill.

What you want is not going to happen. Besides, in your own words, Anet doesn’t listen to feedback, so the only reason you’re sticking around is to whine, complain and be sulky about what we got. It’s almost as if Anet insulted you on a personal level from the way you’ve been behaving.

But by all means, vent it out if you have to…

Translation: I have no arguments, so chiiiiill dude.

babazhook.6805:

Trickery is NOT required in a DE build.

To the INI. With ample ways to achieve steath via the new Elite and utilities anyone used to an x/d build wherein stealth achieved via CnD or a p/p or d/p build will make up for lost INI via more access to stealth via utility.

If traiting SA which is very compatible with DE , you can more than make up for the lost BT and boon theft by taking RS.

Ready might access and the ability to garner bonuses out of stealth makes up for the loss of lead attacks.

The stun on steal via SOH is surpassed by unforgiving.

If a thief was using Trickery to get trickster for tricks you WILL miss those lower cooldowns but I found due to the ability to pop into stealth so readily and given I traited up SA , Shadows embrace worked very well removing conditions.

It may not be as easy or straightforward to get access to all the same things trickery offers but I have been having very good success in dropping that line , more then I could have had taking DrD. This does not mean I will no longer take trickery on every build as it does offer tremendous benefit. It is just not as much a must have as it was before DE.

As to those added dodges from DrD yes they are missed but I have been playing without them in anticipation of this for some time and the transition not all that difficult once you retrain yourself to use a dodge more wisely.

Trickery is required for literally every thief build.
For years thief was balanced around trickery, deadeye with those extremely high initiative costs was even created with trickery in mind.

Same ol’ daredevil.
I am sure daredevil will get heavy nerfs, to make deadeye viable, but I am sure drd will stay a better option nearly everywhere.

EvilSardine.9635:

Acheron.4576:

kill shot warrior doesn’t have an entire elite spec dedicated to it.

Doesn’t matter. A player must be punished if they are bad and firing at a warrior that’s using his reflect.

Have you tried roaming around in WvW? You can no longer fight without a deadeye being 1500 distance away hiding in stealth waiting to instant down you with a 20k damage spammable shot. I should be able to counter him by reflecting his shot back at him while I’m using an obvious reflect skill.

You counter a whole spec (and class) by just pressing one button. That’s really a l2p issue. Not.

Phosphorite.6192:

You seem very dismissive to me. Everything I hear is “that sucks, this sucks, that’s not working, the DS is crap”. Pretty dismissive, isn’t it?

I have no illusions whatsoever that the DS isn’t perfect. None at all. All i’m saying is that it shouldn’t be written off as garbage before it’s even out properly.

Anet already showed, that tweaking and fixing stuff before a release (and even after) isn’t their strength.
I don’t want to wait six month’s to a year for deadeye’s problems were at least addressed.

Doggie.3184:

Warrost.4895:

Doggie.3184:

Thurindir.3268:

My take on DE:

-A one trick pony. Ranged damage and that’s it. Compared with Holomancer, which has the total package…melee, ranged, aoe damage…and it falls far short.

I came into the weekend expecting to make Deadeye my main for the expac. I left the weekend looking forward to playing Holomancer.

Well of course everyone is going to play the overtuned class with faceroll abilities. People generally enjoy being stronger with less effort. Doesn’t mean all the other classes are terrible though when one is just too overpowered.

Or not playable outside of open world PvE

I’m gonna need more detail on that statement.

Theoretical, everything is playable everywhere, except scourge until today, since he crashed WvW maps.
But the real question is, what does it offer?
Deadeye brings nothing outside of open world, except maybe trolling in WvW. Hell, it’s not like deadeye not bringing something unique, but not even being an alternative to Warrior in terms of boons, or DrD in terms of damage.
You surely can try to play a heal-engineer, but you will suck so horrible at it, that nobody would ever consider to replace druids in a raid group with them, while on the other hand you can replace some DPS roles, since the differences in DPS will be minor.
But what is deadeyes place? In it’s current state it is not just “not the peak of anything”, but not even an alternative to anything.

Phosphorite.6192:

Warrost.4895:

We know the traits, skills and weapon.
We know raids.
It’s not rocket science to predict something close to reality with those parameters.

Somehow I think there’s more to these things than just number crunching.

Oh I forgot. Since all raid bosses are so static, a spec with the most static weapon of all time (beside that, deadeye offers nothing a warrior couldn’t do better) deadeye will sure shine.

Doggie.3184:

Thurindir.3268:

My take on DE:

-A one trick pony. Ranged damage and that’s it. Compared with Holomancer, which has the total package…melee, ranged, aoe damage…and it falls far short.

I came into the weekend expecting to make Deadeye my main for the expac. I left the weekend looking forward to playing Holomancer.

Well of course everyone is going to play the overtuned class with faceroll abilities. People generally enjoy being stronger with less effort. Doesn’t mean all the other classes are terrible though when one is just too overpowered.

Or not playable outside of open world PvE

Phosphorite.6192:

Asur.9178:

Open world PvE is far different than Raids and T4 CMs, and DE as well as rifle (as it is currently) has no place in those.

Your rose-tinted glasses cannot save the DE in its current state. Just because you can play something does not make it good. DE in its current implementation in this demo is trash.

No idea what you mean with CM but we’re not even able to test the specs in Raids and other more demanding PvE content yet. So how are ppl so certain that it’ll suck there? Also, this is a preview for a reason, changes can and will always be made.

We know the traits, skills and weapon.
We know raids.
It’s not rocket science to predict something close to reality with those parameters.

Phosphorite.6192:

Warrost.4895:

Congrats. It work in PvE.
Not like literally anything works in PvE, no matter how braindead played.

So? I was just pointing out, that not everything is bad about this new specialization or all the others. And braindead is pretty overstated. Besides, I’d say it’s a good thing that every kind of build can work. That encourages diversity which is way more fun than everybody running a snoringly boring meta-build.

Anything can work in PvE. Even a Nomad-Necromancer.
Having a well working option A, doesn’t justify an option B “just because it is not A”.
Deadeye adds nothing thief could’t already do well enough.
Tbh daredevil also was just an improved acro trait.

Sons.5493:

nopoet.2960:

Instead of activating kneel. Rifle skills should flip over to the move powerful versions after you’ve been still for a certain amount of time.

Of all the stupid suggestions ppl have written in the forums this last 2 days this is one probably the worst of them all. Standing still just to proc my “strong abilites”?

Deadeye does what it’s supposed to do, it’s a learn to play issue.

No changes needed here. L2P kitten plebs. Deadeye fine
/irony

Phosphorite.6192:

First off: Only talking PvE here, i don’t care about PvP

I really don’t see why everyone is bashing the DS so harshly. I had a loooot of fun with it with the testing so far and it’s damage output looks pretty decent to me. Both in direct damage and condi, hell I can put some venoms on, kneel and spam #2 and the enemies die in seconds without even getting to move towards me. If they live long enough to outlast the immobilize and come close, then needle traps will take care of it + the escape skill that does further poison damage. also, with that one trait that gives you a stolen skill every time you use a cantrip, you can basically spam those, get crazy boons and blast the mobs with even more conditions, including poison. the permanently high vulnerability stacks increase the damage further. And that’s all for a type of build that the DS is not even conceptualized for.

The decrease in mobility (which isn’t even that much less since you can still dodge and stand up from kneeling at any give time + removing mobility based conditions) is a minor detail since the demage is high enough to kill the mob before it even reaches you. and even if it does you still have many skills at your disposal to either increase the time they take to get to you or just get further away again.

Ofc it’s not perfect. The mark reset comes quick and malice doesn’t boost condition damage (but the DS would be too op if it did) and the traits are even more rifle centric than the daredevil traits were with the staff. but overall I really like and enjoy the concept of the DS and it’s nowhere near as crippled as many people make it out to be.

Congrats. It work in PvE.
Not like literally anything works in PvE, no matter how braindead played.