Guild Wars 2

BloodRayn.1096:

We’ve had an answer on french forum.

Well they don’t say that much, but at least we got an answer :

Here’s the translation :

Hello,
Thank you for your message: we actually work on the analysis of the problem.
Thank you for your understanding.

Anyway nobody’s surprised, new update = new bugs, it’s a habit on GW2.

And for people who think they gonna give you loots as compensation, i just want to say…. stop dreaming

Please apologize if i did any mistakes.

Thanks BloodRayn!

The issue that’s concerning me the most is the lack of recognition from ArenaNet that they are even aware of the problem. I normally don’t care at all about loot but this one is a little different since it’s the only way to craft the blue version of the backpiece (which I…must…have).

It also is starting to create the cascading effect of people not fighting the knights at all and thus baring anyone from ever getting to experience the final Scarlet encounter.

It’s good to hear that at least in french ArenaNetland everyone is alive and well. I’ll still bring over some hot soup and blankets to any under-the-weather ArenaNetians here in Seattle just in case.

BloodRayn.1096:

We’ve had an answer on french forum.

Well they don’t say that much, but at least we got an answer :

Here’s the translation :

Hello,
Thank you for your message: we actually work on the analysis of the problem.
Thank you for your understanding.

Anyway nobody’s surprised, new update = new bugs, it’s a habit on GW2.

And for people who think they gonna give you loots as compensation, i just want to say…. stop dreaming

Please apologize if i did any mistakes.

Thanks BloodRayn!

The issue that’s concerning me the most is the lack of recognition from ArenaNet that they are even aware of the problem. I normally don’t care at all about loot but this one is a little different since it’s the only way to craft the blue version of the backpiece (which I…must…have).

It also is starting to create the cascading effect of people not fighting the knights at all and thus baring anyone from ever getting to experience the final Scarlet encounter.

It’s good to hear that at least in french ArenaNetland everyone is alive and well. I’ll still bring over some hot soup and blankets to any under-the-weather ArenaNetians here in Seattle just in case.

BloodRayn.1096:

We’ve had an answer on french forum.

Well they don’t say that much, but at least we got an answer :

Here’s the translation :

Hello,
Thank you for your message: we actually work on the analysis of the problem.
Thank you for your understanding.

Anyway nobody’s surprised, new update = new bugs, it’s a habit on GW2.

And for people who think they gonna give you loots as compensation, i just want to say…. stop dreaming

Please apologize if i did any mistakes.

Thanks BloodRayn!

The issue that’s concerning me the most is the lack of recognition from ArenaNet that they are even aware of the problem. I normally don’t care at all about loot but this one is a little different since it’s the only way to craft the blue version of the backpiece (which I…must…have).

It also is starting to create the cascading effect of people not fighting the knights at all and thus baring anyone from ever getting to experience the final Scarlet encounter.

It’s good to hear that at least in french ArenaNetland everyone is alive and well. I’ll still bring over some hot soup and blankets to any under-the-weather ArenaNetians here in Seattle just in case.

I have to say that it’s also a little odd that they haven’t merged those two identical threads yet. They’ve been the top two for at least two days now and no moderator manipulation.

A couple days ago I made a thread concerning the blue Knight resetting to full health as a bug, not seeing that there was already a thread about this. My thread was merged with the existing one within 10 minutes of posting it.

I’m starting to think for some reason the forums aren’t being moderated at the moment. The lack of reply and action from ArenaNet these last couple days are starting to be worrisome. I hope everyone’s alright over there.

I live pretty close to ArenaNet headquarters so maybe I’ll swing by and make sure they are o.k. If everyone’s been out sick I’d be happy to bring over some chicken noodle soup and a box of tissues.

Get well soon ArenaNet

I have to say that it’s also a little odd that they haven’t merged these two identical threads yet. They’ve been the top two for at least two days now and no moderator manipulation.

A couple days ago I made a thread concerning the blue Knight resetting to full health as a bug, not seeing that there was already a thread about this. My thread was merged with the existing one within 10 minutes of posting it.

I’m starting to think for some reason the forums aren’t being moderated at the moment. The lack of reply and action from ArenaNet these last couple days are starting to be worrisome. I hope everyone’s alright over there.

I live pretty close to ArenaNet headquarters so maybe I’ll swing by and make sure they are o.k. If everyone’s been out sick I’d be happy to bring over some chicken noodle soup and a box of tissues.

Get well soon ArenaNet

I have to say that it’s also a little odd that they haven’t merged these two identical threads yet. They’ve been the top two for at least two days now and no moderator manipulation.

A couple days ago I made a thread concerning the blue Knight resetting to full health as a bug, not seeing that there was already a thread about this. My thread was merged with the existing one within 10 minutes of posting it.

I’m starting to think for some reason the forums aren’t being moderated at the moment. The lack of reply and action from ArenaNet these last couple days are starting to be worrisome. I hope everyone’s alright over there.

I live pretty close to ArenaNet headquarters so maybe I’ll swing by and make sure they are o.k. If everyone’s been out sick I’d be happy to bring over some chicken noodle soup and a box of tissues.

Get well soon ArenaNet

Just killed 3 more Knights after the latest patch and (long sigh) no loot at all…again…still. The entire overflow reported that no one got anything either. Not a single person got anything. No one. Nothing.

I’m not sure why there is such a deafening silence from the developers about this issue. Maybe we’ll find out in a few days if it’s worth testing the waters again.

Just killed 3 more Knights after the latest patch and (long sigh) no loot at all…again…still. The entire overflow reported that no one got anything either. Not a single person got anything. No one. Nothing.

I’m not sure why there is such a deafening silence from the developers about this issue. Maybe we’ll find out in a few days if it’s worth testing the waters again.

Just killed 6 more Knights and only the first (blue) dropped any loot. DPS guardian lots of damage, never went down (overflow).

Could any dev please just let us know if this drop rate (or lack of one) is intended or is a bug being looked at? Pretty please?

Zaxares.5419:

For those not getting loot, have you killed that specific Assault Knight before that same day? I’m wondering if perhaps each Knight only gives out its rewards once per day.

Myself I got loot from the very first Knight I killed today (blue) and then the next 5 nothing. It’s starting to seem like it’s one Knight per day… period.

I seriously don’t think this was intended (although since we have no word from the devs if it’s even a bug at all it’s all just guessing).

So yeah…killed a total of 6 more knights, got loot from 1 (in overflow). Full DPS tons of damage never went down yadda yadda.

Any hint from the devs if this is a bug being looked at or is as intended would be very appreciated.

Seems I’m pretty much getting loot 33% of the time. I get loot once out of 3 knights killed at best. I’m full DPS guardian, plenty of damage & getting the gold for event.

Could a dev please comment on this so we know if it’s being looked into?

Just killed the blue (we killed the other two) and no resetting so I don’t know if we got lucky or someone killed the menders. Anyway it was bugged so no Scarlet afterwards but I think they hotfixed it now. We’ll see…

Thanks Mafetix that does help. I guess since I was in overflow no one mentioned anything about ‘menders’ so I had no idea they were even there.

Is this a mechanic of only the blue one though? This all being so new there’s very little information circulating about the specific mechanics of each knight.

I don’t really have a problem with this mechanic now that I know it exists (I like that it forces you to be aware of more than the boss) just assumed like everyone else in that overflow that it was a bug. I still don’t remember seeing any ‘menders’ but again I didn’t know to look.

Thanks again for the insight.

Wait so if the menders get too close they heal it back up to 100%? Is this seriously intended?

EDIT: Could we please get confirmation from a dev that this is as intended. It went from 25% health to an instant 100%. Never saw any ‘menders’ actually but then again my culling was turned way down and I didn’t know to look for them.

Also, this only happens with the blue one? Once everyone gave up on the blue we all ran to the red and there were no menders at all.

New living story (blue) legendary boss in LA reset after it was down to around 25%…went back up to 100%. So of course it failed.

My main is a condi-mesmer (I know I know) in all ascended Rabid gear and well…I’m not even getting credit for most of this. Luckily I have 7 other 80’s so at least I have that. I’ll admit I’m getting a little tired of all the new content relying on timers and physical damage (aka berserker).

Vital Studded Pants are OP.

Love these! Really glad you’re making more…keep it up.

It’s funny, I’ve been playing my Asura thief and had just commented to my fellow guildies how fun/fast Asura thieves are to play. Here’s mine, thanks and Cheers!

I’ve always wondered about this as well.

My Thief routinely goes stealth in order to revive/stomp, my Mesmer goes invulnerable (Distortion shatter), Guardian pops an Aegis, etc. Every other profession has access to their special mechanic during a revive/stomp except Necromancer.

If someone goes down next to me my Necro has to cut short it’s DS in order to revive them, actually bypassing the one mechanic that is supposed make them the attrition class. It really seems upside down when you think that Necromancers are the most vulnerable when they are reviving/stomping, as opposed to the other way around for every other profession. I just can’t see any logic to it.

I had always sort of assumed there was some reasoning behind this limitation that I wasn’t seeing, but for the life of me I still don’t understand it.

Does anyone have any theories as to why Necromancers can’t revive/stomp in DS?

Since these videos are such a refreshing reminder and even an anti-toxin to a lot of the negativity that can creep into these forums I feel it’s relevant to post a link to one of my other favorite remedies for the jaded or the forgetful.

Guild Wars 2 Angry Joe Review

Please make more of these! I’ve subscribed to your channel in the hopes that you make more of these entertaining (and for me and a lot of others nostalgic) videos.

A year after launch and towards the conclusion of the biggest living story arc to date you have the rare perspective of someone discovering GW2 for the first time. I’ve played and loved this game for over a year and sometimes it’s easy to forget that first sense of jaw dropping wonder during those first few weeks/months.

So please ‘By the power of rabbits!’ make more of these and chronicle for yourself and for us these first adventures in GW2. And welcome to Tyria!

Let’s define our terms.

Grind: In a video game context means having to do something you do not enjoy to be able to do something or have something you enjoy.

Anything from gold, karma, laurels, gear, levels, to ascended items & materials can be obtained from doing nearly anything in GW2. This means dungeons, temple events in Orr, dynamic events, WvW, sPvP, gathering, living story events, fractals, jumping puzzles, personal story, mini-games, world bosses…basically the entire game.

If all or most of these elements of the game seem like a ‘grind’ to a player (by definition is not enjoyable) then they are absolutely correct in subjectively feeling GW2 is a grindy game to them. They also by definition do not enjoy this game at all.

If you dislike all the parts of something, the sum of it’s parts will be equally disliked.

I for one truly enjoy nearly every aspect of this game, so I personally see no ‘grind’ at all. I just feel like I’m playing the game, and enjoying it.

Agreed OP. The appearance of functionality and ‘in context’ believability are extremely important to any game art design, even in a fantasy genre. This is actually taught in game concept design and 3d modeling schools routinely.

I’ve done some armor designing for games, here is an armor mod I made for Skyrim:

Ritual Armor of Boethiah

The armor is made from rendered dragon parts and even though we all know dragons aren’t real, it’s pretty easy to suspend disbelief if it makes sense in context with the world of the game.

The traditional ‘Steam-Punk’ aesthetic is also a good example of this. While GW2 for the most part is pretty good about this, I do think we need some more believable armors to choose from.

One of the hardest achievements to get for some reason. I’ve seen whole guilds formed just to farm giants in the few places they spawn. This might help future giant hunters:

http://dulfy.net/2013/05/13/gw2-slayer-achievements-guide/#16

Well done sylvnfox. I even noticed a subtle tip of the hat to Dylan Thomas in there…bravo!

The argument that “If it’s not OP then you won’t mind it being nerfed with an icd.” is obviously absurd. Equally absurd is the idea that triggering clone-death traits by overwriting the first clone produced that is positioned close to a moving target by dodging is “too easy” as compared to other profession’s on-dodge traits.

Again it seems I need to re-post from a previous discussion related to why I even fight against such a short sighted nerf in the first place if the effects are so negligible.

Forgot to point out the reason why I’m even fighting to have these ‘on clone death’ traits spared from the nerf bat at all. If they are so weak, why even bother taking them or making a fuss about a proposed nerf at all?

It’s been shown that in PvP all three traits when taken with DE amount to an average of 0-1 stacks of bleed and a very rare occurrence of a short Cripple, Confusion, Vulnerability or Weakness, and only if the player happens to be standing in the wrong place at the wrong time. So the combination of these traits and DE have almost no effect in PvP against an even marginally good player.

The strength of these traits only comes into play when there is a large group of slow moving targets grouped closely together, something that only consistently happens in PvE. So the 3 clone death traits when taken with DE add at least a marginal amount of condition damage in PvE for Condition Mesmers.

This is due mainly to their AoE effects and the fact that most mobs stay close together and are slow moving, allowing for more chances to be near the oldest clone being overwritten. Any stationary target (boss) is also more likely to receive the full amount of the possible conditions, still not very much but it helps. So ‘on clone death’ traits when taken with DE as it is right now is only effective in PvE, and only slightly at that.

I happen to be one of the rare Condition Mesmers who enjoy this play-style in PvE, even though I know it’s not ‘optimal’ by any stretch of the imagination. I actually like how ‘non-viable’ Condition Mesmers and Confusion are in PvE since it makes me work extra hard to take advantage of each and every condition I can apply in order to even maintain a ‘sub-optimal’ amount of DPS.

This proposed change would effectively change my ‘sub-optimal’ build to ‘sub-possible’.

Re-posting this from when a lot of discussion was going on about that potentially disastrous DE nerf.

Before we all start asking for a nerf to any of the Mesmer ‘on-dodge’ traits (DE + clone death) by removing them from DE or whatever we must find out if they are really overpowered in the first place.

You need to find out how much something is before stating it’s too much.
Sorry to sound like a broken record, I’m really more reminding the devs than anyone else.

Test:
So I did a simple side by side comparison test between Mesmer & Thief using only ‘on-dodge’ traits (Deceptive Evasion vs Uncatchable) and only dodging to kill a moving target golem.

All ‘clone death’ traits & DE taken by the Mesmer and all ‘on dodge’ traits taken by the Thief.

Results:
Mesmer: About 3-5 stacks of bleed 100% up-time (90% from auto-attacking clones). Very rarely a few seconds of Cripple, 1 stack of Confusion, Vulnerability or Weakness.

Thief : 4 stacks of bleed 100% up-time. 45+ seconds of cripple (continually stacking).
also 2-4 stacks of might gained as well as swiftness, endurance regeneration & condition removal

Conclusion:
If anyone can seriously look at those two examples and arrive at the conclusion that the Mesmer is in need of having their ‘on-dodge’ traits nerfed in any way for the sake of balance…then I just don’t know what else to say.

This is not a theory. This was an actual test that anyone with a Mesmer and a Thief can do for themselves in 5 minutes. I encourage anyone who is genuinely curious as to if these traits are overpowered to try it out, it’s actually quite funny.

This was unrealistically best case scenario too, since I was chasing a slow moving golem running in circles and would hope that any actual player would take even less damage from these traits, by both classes.

Please make a special note that 90% of the bleeds supplied by the Mesmer in this test are coming from the clones auto-attacking (Sharper Images trait).

The real conditions supplied by all 3 traits to a moving target is closer to 0 than to 1.
So once again, before anyone says they are in need of a nerf please:

• Explain why you feel 0-1 stack of bleed for a 45 point investment is OP or
• Do the test yourself and show how my numbers are wrong.

I made some minor clarifications to the above (Caltrops should have been Uncatchable). I’ve been trying to make these tests as clear to understand as possible but in reality it’s far simpler to just run the test yourself. It’s really the first and most crucial step before making any assertions about relative balance.

Should be noted I’m not finding there to be anything OP with any thief traits. I’m also concluding it’s hard to logically defend the argument that the clone death traits, when taken with DE are overly powerful and require a nerf based on these results.

EDIT: I realize facts are usually less interesting than speculation but if anyone wants to see the results of my other two tests I’ve been compiling them here.

PvX MESMER Are clone death traits OP?

kta.6502:

Tanith.5264:

Something needs to be done about these little kittens. Is boot camp still a thing?

I hope those guys are located in my state. We’ve got laws against this stuff in washington state. The police in my area do hunt down folks who engage in this stuff. What this group of hackers are doing is disrupting business.

They’re in Norway (not that it matters I suppose). Hopefully somebody will take these fleas down. I heard Anonymous has struck back at them recently.

What I really don’t understand is how someone can have a Twitter account and be untrackable. Just need to log onto their account to see these idiots posting glib details about what they’re doing.

1. Ranger
2. Mesmer
3. Elementalist

Great idea. And I actually didn’t know that Karizee so thanks for the tip.

GW2 is the most immersive mmo I’ve played, including ones I’m currently beta testing. With all the ambient fully voiced conversations of NPCs, creatures fighting each other, weather changes (although a bit subtle) and relatively uncluttered UI I find it easy to loose myself in the world & lore.

That being said there are a couple things that would improve this.

• Customizable UI elements. Being able to turn off or adjust the size/transparency of elements on the screen would go a long way to create a personalized sense of immersion. I sometimes play with the UI turned off and would do this most of the time if I didn’t need things like health/conditions/cooldown indicators in serious fights.

• More dramatic day/night & weather changes.

• Ability to turn off completely the mouse-over highlighting which also displays the name of the object, NPC, or player.

• Optional 1st person view. I’ve seen this in action with a certain mmo beta and although most will probably have 3rd person enabled, it would be nice to have the option.

Fixed!

Now…about that iWarden… (hehe)

Thanks ArenaNet

Great! Thanks Allie for updating us.

I’m not only keeping my Mesmer completely away from WvW or PvP until this bug is fixed, but as a show of solidarity to my Mesmer comrades I’m keeping my thief out as well. Once I realized one of my Thief’s healing skills could basically one-shot any Mesmer with this bug (with no counter) I’ve decided to bench my thief as well.

If stealth killed Ranger pets, reduced a Warrior’s adrenaline to 0, fully boon stripped a guardian or whatever I would do the same.

Hang in there fellow Mesmers it’s only been…erm…well…24hrs.
Hmm…well still, hang in there…they’ll get this fixed eventually.

Bumbler.7581:

I would like to say that this does not appear to happen when PvE enemies go stealth and might be isolated to PvP. However, my only example is Mossman (whom I fought yesterday): I do not believe that my illusions exploded upon stealth.

When I get home, I will fight one of the jaguars or skelk in Maguuma to see if their stealth destroys illusions.

Just tested this out with some Jaguars and this is happening consistently in PvE as well, so it’s an across the board game breaking bug.

Have to admit it is ironic though that just after threatening a major nerf to ‘clone-death’ builds they somehow introduced a bug that effectively eliminates all builds except ‘clone-death’.

It’s funny but I’m not laughing.

In the Grove, two Sylvari females experimenting with cooking.

“It tingles!” (laughs) “It’s the mint that makes it tingle!”

While I am thankful that the balance team eventually saw the light and had the flexibility to prevent a potentially disastrous nerf, I’m more thankful to all the people who worked tirelessly on the forums to bring this to their attention.

So thanks to all who took to the streets and raised a ruckus.
Viva La Resistance!

Hopefully now we can finally put ‘Purple-Cheesegate’ behind us.

Well done everyone!

What about the iWarden simply ‘blinking’ to the target’s position after the attack cooldown? Exactly like it just appears when summoned; no running animation/travel time at all? If the target was stealthed during the ‘blink’ it would remain stationary and do it’s normal attack routine without changing positions.

I do agree though that I miss having a reliable area that I could retreat back too to absorb/reflect projectiles or even get some regen or simple area denial. So…

What if there was a second optional activation like the Scepter #2 block after casting which would root the phantasm at it’s summoned spot, bypassing the above ‘blink’ mechanic? That would give you a few seconds to decide if you want it to ‘blink’ to the target at all, or remain as a stationary area of denial. So one click for blinking iWarden and two for stationary, or the other way around.

Just a thought.

Just realized this might be exactly what you’re saying Ross..hehe…so sorry if I just reworded what you were talking about.

Since it might be helpful to see what Jon Peters (dev) originally posted I’ve re-posted it here. So as not to get off topic I’ve ‘spoiler-hidden’ the two irrelevant points. Enjoy!

JonPeters.5630:

I think the mesmer discussion has been pretty positive overall and productive but I wanted to bring up some points that I am seeing and some new ones as well.

Scepter
Scepter is still missing something but we don’t want to overload the autoattack as we think that promotes more mindless play and are trying to move away from builds that focus so much on the “1” skill. I feel like that scepter should be the tricksy defender that can stop enemies from attacking and defend allies, but maybe it’s single target nature is keeping that from working.

Confounding Suggestions/Mimic

hide spoiler

Confounding Suggestions
We were hoping this change would improve this. I’m mostly seeing people saying they liked the old one. That will certainly be a topic of discussion early next week so I would love to hear some opinions either way in case there is a split.

Mimic
Last thought. This skill is for almost all intents and purposes just not working, but is causing some broken behavior with certain bosses. I would like to replace it with a complete redesign and am open to discussion on that as well.

Overall I think this a good small step for a profession that has a lot of roles it can fill fairly uniquely. I think this might give us 3 strong mesmer build archetypes.

1) Shatter
2) Phantasm
3) Mantra

I think right behind those are the interrupt shutdown mesmer and the signet mesmer, so future suggestions towards those are appreciated as well.

Thanks,

Jon

You might notice that nowhere in Jon’s list of possible Mesmer build archetypes is the Condition Mesmer. This omission worried me then and even more so now with the recent proposals to nerf Dissipation traits. There are plenty of threads discussing this however so I don’t mean to derail the discussion, just thought it should be pointed out.

I dug up the details of my favorite idea for reworking Scepter #1 attack. Here is the link to that thread, lot of interesting ideas in there:

Mesmer December balance updates

Esquire.2809:

A suggestion for scepter auto-attack:

1. Make Ether Bolt a projectile finisher.
2. Make Ether Blast a blast finisher.
3. The Ether Bolt cast by clones would also be a projectile finisher.

• Scepter is the only mesmer weapon without a finisher. Even our underwater weapons have finishers.
• Creates interesting possibilities with glamors, which synergizes well with the Inspiration trait line.
• Adds potential for both AoE and support capabilities in groups.
• Enhances conditions builds without creating a spammy quality to it.
• Gives an alternative (or compliment) to staff as a defensive weapon in holding points in PvP
• The projectile speed needs to be increased or the pre-cast animation reduced, or both.

I think this suggestion is almost perfect, but if the blast finisher on the second attack proves to be OP (as I think it might) then here is my slight variation and some examples of how simply changing the first two scepter auto-attacks (as well as clone attacks) to 100% projectile finishers would play out.

1. Ether Bolt: Shoot a bolt of energy at your target. 100% projectile finisher.
2. Ether Blast: Shoot a second bolt of energy at your target. 100% projectile finisher.
3. Ether Clone: Shoot out a third bolt of energy that damages your target. Summon a clone that casts Ether Bolt.

• Opens up interesting weapon combinations such as scepter/focus by using the light field of Temporal Curtain as a way to remove 2 conditions with the first 2 auto-attacks of the scepter.

• Using Veil in much the same way as above to remove 2 conditions and then stealth.

• Firing through an ethereal field would apply two stacks of confusion solidifying it’s identity as a confusion weapon.

• More varied interplay with other combo fields such as being able to life-steal through a necromancers dark field at range or applying burning to a target unwilling to cross through a fire field (Burning Speed / Ring of Fire).

• The clones would be creating the same effects but since they are usually grouped around the target would serve mainly to reapply chill/burning/poison/blind etc. for as long as the target stands in the combo field. The most powerful scenario for the clones would be standing within an ethereal field as they will be sustaining around 4 stacks of confusion on the target while the field lasts (with 3 clones). Combos like life-steal, regeneration & condition removal will have little impact on the clones and so balance this.

• In dungeons and group events scepter would have more support utility, even if used by a non-condition build. The clones would at least be adding duration to any combo fields put down while waiting to be shattered and the scepters auto-attacks would help keep the mesmer and the team alive (regeneration, life-steal, chill, weakness, blindness).

• Since players in PvP and WvW hopefully don’t just stand in combo fields this change would indirectly help re-balancing PvE with regards to Confusion. More stacks of confusion for NPCs standing in an ethereal field, punishing the mindless being a mesmer specialty.

• Extremely easy for the Devs to dial in the right strength of this after testing by adjusting percentages if needed.

In short it makes the scepter more tricksy and supportive, more situationally random not just RNG. More like the unpredictably confusing magicians wand it was intended to be.

squallaus.8321:

Wasbunny.6531:

The fact is the scepter #1 AA is only useful when combined with the clone death traits to any build other than shatter. Take away that and scepter #1 does a Condition or Phantasm Mesmer no good at all.

And once again if you actually look at the dissipation traits in practice (by testing on a moving target golem for instance) you’ll quickly see how lackluster they really are.

That’s like saying the sword does no dmg in a condition build. You’re looking at it the wrong way.

Not really. Sword #1 AA with clones generated is a boon stripping / Vulnerability machine. Useful in any build. The clones also are melee so they follow the target, keeping the target in range of any ‘clone death’ traits. This becomes really handy if running a ‘clone death’ condition build.

The scepter #1 AA applies no buffs or debuffs on it’s own. The clones do 0 damage and likewise apply no buffs or debuffs on their own. The clones are also ranged so will not follow the target until it’s at it’s max. This puts them out of range of most ‘clone death’ traits when overwritten anyway. They become only shatter fodder, and in a build with no Power or shatter traits the only shatter that is potentially damage dealing is Cry of Frustration. And of course no shatter traits are taken in a Condition or Phantasm build.

If they de-couple the clone death traits from scepter #1 they take away the only thing it contributes to any build other than shatter.

Just talking about scepter skill #1 Auto-Attack here remember.

How’d you do that?
What wizardry is this!?

A while back while we were brainstorming ideas for scepter 1, my favorite was making the 1st attack (and all clone’s auto-attack) to be a 100% projectile finisher. If that proves to be too strong then tone it down to 50% or whatever.

Lot’s of interesting things happen when you think this through. I gave a lot of examples on that old thread about this, kind of don’t want to do that all over again though, but you get the picture.

The fact is the scepter #1 AA is only useful when combined with the clone death traits to any build other than shatter. Take away that and scepter #1 does a Condition or Phantasm Mesmer no good at all.

And once again if you actually look at the dissipation traits in practice (by testing on a moving target golem for instance) you’ll quickly see how lackluster they really are.

The fact is the scepter #1 AA is only useful when combined with the clone death traits to any build other than shatter. Take away that and scepter #1 does a Condition or Phantasm Mesmer no good at all.

And once again if you actually look at the dissipation traits in practice (by testing on a moving target golem for instance) you’ll quickly see how lackluster they really are.

Wow, I had always assumed phantasms already procc’ed Debilitating Dissipation & Crippling Dissipation. Just tested it out and you’re right, they don’t. Didn’t think it was possible but these dissipation traits are even weaker than I thought. Thanks for clearing that up for me Me Games Ma.

I would ask though that before you make hyperbolic statements like “insanely spam the on-death-traits of his clones” part of your central argument, please supply actual numbers derived from testing those traits on a moving target. I’ve posted the results of my tests too many times to do it again here but they are far from what you are describing.

Xaylin.1860:

Mek.2947:

So, I don’t understand why a 1/3 chance to cause bleeds on the target is ridiculously OP and needs a nerf, but it’s ok for other classes to set it and forget it condi spam.

I mentioned it in another thread but I think that this way of view might just be wrong. Yes, the traits aren’t overpowered. However, when considering the dev post this appears to be a design decision. Although it has been articulated in a pretty unprofessional manner. They do not want the on death traits to be used actively. Period. It is not about balancing so it does not matter how strong the traits are.

While I can understand their design decision I feel that they have been very insensitive about the timing and the communication. I’m bothered by the fact they are wasting time on a mechanic which is rather unimportant for the class or game balance. I also don’t get why they would decrease build diversity.

Maybe we are missing the bigger picture at the moment because they were not allowed to talk about everything. But the incomming class changes better be better than some peripheral Mantra love.

I’m starting to think you might be right Xaylin, that regardless of the weak justifications given it’s not about balance at all, but about a fundamental design decision they feel they need to reinstate. Still baffling but that at least would offer some rationale.

Recently there’s been some very detailed and intelligently presented explanations by the game designers on other threads (addressing the consumable pet CD for example). Really think an official explanation from the balance team as to not the ‘how’ of this change but to the ‘why’ would save us all a lot of time.

Forgot to point out the reason why I’m even fighting to have these ‘on clone death’ traits spared from the nerf bat at all. If they are so weak, why even bother taken them or making a fuss about a proposed nerf at all?

It’s been shown that in PvP all three traits when taken with DE amount to an average of 0-1 stacks of bleed and a very rare occurrence of a short Cripple, Confusion, Vulnerability or Weakness, and only if the player happens to be standing in the wrong place at the wrong time. So the combination of these traits and DE have almost no effect in PvP against an even marginally good player.

The strength of these traits only comes into play when there is a large group of slow moving targets grouped closely together, something that only consistently happens in PvE. So the 3 clone death traits when taken with DE add at least a marginal amount of condition damage in PvE for Condition Mesmers.

This is due mainly to their AoE effects and the fact that most mobs stay close together and are slow moving, allowing for more chances to be near the oldest clone being overwritten. Any stationary target (boss) is also more likely to receive the full amount of the possible conditions, still not very much but it helps. So ‘on clone death’ traits when taken with DE as it is right now is only effective in PvE, and only slightly at that.

I happen to be one of the rare Condition Mesmers who enjoy this play-style in PvE, even though I know it’s not ‘optimal’ by any stretch of the imagination. I actually like how ‘non-viable’ Condition Mesmers and Confusion are in PvE since it makes me work extra hard to take advantage of each and every condition I can apply in order to even maintain a ‘sub-optimal’ amount of DPS.

This proposed change would effectively change my ‘sub-optimal’ build to ‘sub-possible’.

Not sure where people are getting the idea that Mesmers should be the only profession in the game without a reliable way to apply conditions.

The current trait under attack is Debilitating Dissipation which has a 33% chance to apply a short duration damaging condition if the first clone produced happens to be standing next to the target when overwritten. This is being seen by some (devs agreeing apparently) as a too strong and controllable (trigger stuff directly) way to apply conditions for Mesmers.

Boggles the mind.

I think they’re a great idea and would love to participate in them but the following reasons make that almost impossible.

• I’m almost always in overflow, which isn’t necessarily a problem if there happens to also be an organized group in that particular overflow, except for the next problem…
• I almost always get disconnected several times during an encounter. This of course forces me to re-log into a different overflow making progress in the event impossible.
• I enjoy playing mainly condition builds that rely on interesting interplay with ‘on-crit’ traits and sigils. Since world bosses can’t be crit and condi’s have a hard cap most of my favorite professions/builds are useless.

So unfortunately I have to sit out things like Tequatl and the two new large scale world events, which look really exciting and well done and I understand why others enjoy them, just wish I could too.

Sorry to have just copy/pasted my 1) from Valarauka’s but it’s literally word for word what my main question at the moment would be. Well said Valarauka

1) What exactly is the reasoning behind making any change at all to Deceptive Evasion or the clone-death condition traits? Mesmers aren’t exactly overpowered in PvP or anywhere else; I thought nerfs were meant to address issues. What issue do devs see with the current state of affairs? Maybe if we understood the cause being addressed we could propose alternate solutions. (Note that the Critical Infusion change was anticipated and is totally acceptable to me and most others.)

2) The devs expressed wanting to rework the scepter (specifically the auto-attack), to make it more of a ‘tricksy’ condition weapon. A lot of good ideas were put forth on the forums…so how’s that coming?