Guild Wars 2

Cygnus.6903:

Wintel.4873:

Hi guys, I just saw a thief healing around 20-25% of their health every time they dodged (or used an ability that looked like an evade). They could also keep re-entering stealth seemingly limitless times, either due a very short cooldown or maybe there were multiple stealth abilities. They also had fairly high burst damage.
I would blow him up down to 10% health, he would stealth, re-appear later with half health, I would blow him up again, stealth, re-appear with half health, blow-up, stealth, reappear, etc. It was basically impossible to kill him because he would just keep vanishing. Did I mention he healed every time he dodged?

What is this all-powerful build?

While you were blowing him up all the time, what did his all-powerful build do to your HP?

We were trading blows but he was definitely glassy, his health would bounce up and down.
His entire survivability seemed to revolve around stealthing at the last moment (and doing extremely often).

I’m playing engineer static discharge build which isn’t exactly optimal for dealing with thieves (or really an optimal build at all :P) so he gave me a really hard time.

Hi guys, I just saw a thief healing around 20-25% of their health every time they dodged (or used an ability that looked like an evade). They could also keep re-entering stealth seemingly limitless times, either due a very short cooldown or maybe there were multiple stealth abilities. They also had fairly high burst damage.
I would blow him up down to 10% health, he would stealth, re-appear later with half health, I would blow him up again, stealth, re-appear with half health, blow-up, stealth, reappear, etc. It was basically impossible to kill him because he would just keep vanishing. Did I mention he healed every time he dodged?

What is this all-powerful build?

New Zealand? You will have like ~350ms ping to GW2 servers since they are all located in Texas US (at least WoW gave us 180-200ms ping from West Coast servers). I’m quite amazed you were able to play a Rogue at that level from NZ, playing a melee class at that latency was a terrible experience last time I tried.
This game’s abilities, mechanics, dodging, etc are even more timing-critical than WoW’s stuff so latency matters even more.

I know because I’m from NZ too. No, tunneling services don’t help.

Celeras.4980:

Was Warsong Gulch not worth playing because of Travel form?

Umm being the right flag-carrying class in WSG made a huge difference. You were either crawling across the map at normal run speed while trying to fend-off constant attackers, or you were ZOOMING across the map in Travel Form / Ghost Wolf / etc and scoring your team the win.

Spirit Orb is even worse because it doesn’t follow the same rules for movement-boosting abilities across different classes. Some leaps work, some don’t. Some dashes work, some don’t. It’s completely inconsistent across classes and makes no sense.

Tom.8029:

You heal the team, not just yourself and i did mention power, which kills people…

Kills people who are AFK maybe -_-

fugazi.5139:

Everything about it was weak. It looked cheap. The teams were sitting right next to each other. So not esportz…my question is though, what has changed since this? What did the Dev’s learn from this?

That spirit rangers should be given an additional 4 pets if they are Asura.

As an Elementalist I approve of this.

Since it’s so common for Ele’s to get insta-killed, it would save me wasting time in downed state waiting for someone to finish me off. Those extra seconds could be spent running back to the fight instead

Aaand it’s down.

^ Nice video but please don’t be a clicker….crazy amount of mouse movement for no reason lol.

Two solutions that don’t involve “only allow 1 pet”:
a) Allow all damage targeted at the player to pierce through their pets, i.e. no more body-blocking with AI. PvP change only, in PvE they can continue to body-block.
b) Completely remove AoE cap in PvP.

This thread is from October last year, I’d say Mesmer is definitely top-tier now.

Build diversity in both PvP and PvE is pretty good actually.

It’s just that the class as a whole suffers a list of foundational weaknesses (e.g. core mechanics).

SoLeciTO.3490:

I do not know how many threads anet needs to figure out this map is not welcome in ranked matches.

Only 1 thread, because all the other threads get merged into this one

So I guess at least the ANet employee who is merging these threads is aware of how badly the community wants Skyhammer gone.

That’s the best acknowledgement we can hope for.

Be man?

How can be man when all is vain?

HOW??

Eremus.4506:

One of the biggest problems for me is that the bad survivability makes it absolutely impossible to help downed team mates. 99% of the time its complete suicide and you just create two corpses instead of one. Even soldier’s is extremely squishy.

It’s also a feels stupid when someone is trying to res you, because I’m pretty sure health/armor values also carry into downed state and many builds can just BURST you down faster than you’re being revived lol.

Yeah I dunno what’s so bad about 2 thieves at higher levels of play, if they coordinate that’s basically 2 targets that you won’t account for when running into a fight.

LightningBlaze.4913:

“There are many valid concerns about the Elementalist” have nothing to do with acknowledging his theory. Most importantly, there are many valid concerns across all the professions.

That’s fine n’ dandy but you and I both know exactly what “valid concerns” means in this case, considering what he was responding to.

And seriously, there is no point in stubbornly refusing to acknowledge the issues that Ele’s face (in SPvP at least). It’s not helping anyone. We all have to work together to highlight issues with this class to the devs and in the end it will only improve the game for everyone. Even non-Ele’s will be happier because when one is on their team, they will no longer have something to worry about it.

jihm.2315:

elementalists used to beat me easy at one vs one i dont know what happened lately and i beat them most times. i actually stopped chasing them to kill them anymore , fair play to eles.
guardian here.
maybe try healing build? might be good.

What healing build, with staff build we only have 2 group heals with 20 sec + 45 sec cooldowns respectively :S
Scepter or Dagger is even worse for healing teammates.

Something bursty and not tanky? Full kamikaze staff zerker it is then: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fEAQFAWhEmYb6xyQlEAkCoEeQADFIUYBElC7A-TkAg0CnI4SxljLDXSuscNKA
(slot skills are up to you, can use cantrips and/or a different elite)

It’s all about positioning and situational awareness. Never attempt to fight on-point (unless it’s a quick free capture), always skirt around the edges of fights at max staff range. Not being noticed or targeted is top priority. Stick with teammates, never attempt to 1v1 anyone because every build in the game can kill you. If enemies even hint of coming in your direction, Earth #3 > Earth #4 > Lightning #5 > Lightning #4…i.e. run!

Arcane wave > Meteor > Tornado (more enemies the better), there’s a good chance you can wipe out ALL of them. This is something no other class/build can come even close to doing.
Also prioritize downed enemies when their allies around, perfect time to Frost Bow > Lava Font since people will be trying to res (i.e. standing still) and you could kill them all. Throw out Water 3>4>5 when Meteor/Bow are on cooldown, help your teammates win the fight.

If played right, it’s one of the best things an Ele can offer to the team. If you’re dying WAY too much, swap Berzerker’s amulet with Soldiers.

Everything I’ve said sounds opposite to how rated PvP should be played, but the very fact you’re an Ele means you’re already at a massive disadvantage and a potential liability on the team. Do what you must.

Alternatively you can try playing a “proper” S/D or D/D build but it takes FAR more skill to play than Staff Zerker, lemme know if you’re interested in that.

LightningBlaze.4913:

LelouchViBritannia.3607:

Mbelch.9028:

Sure they are. Or maybe that’s just you when you play ele.

Or maybe you shouldn’t judge other players based on yourself.

Any player that is excellent at playing ele will be MUCH better when playing another class to the same extend. That’s a fact that even the devlopers acknowledged.

FYI I’m beast at playing ele.

I’m excellent at playing ele yet I sucked when I tried Mesmer for a good amount of time in WvW so I don’t see where you originated that false logic. I would like to see a source of the developers acknowledging this theory of yours.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/1106-suggestions-pre-patch-0-were-ok/first#post3403927

Bhima.9518:

Thieves are strong… but not that great imo because we are stuck with one game type: conquest. At the end of the day, tanky warriors with LB or a well played condi engie is MUCH better simply because they can do dmg and hold a point well.

A large part of holding points is causing unbalanced fights, i.e. 2v1’s or 3v2’s. Thieves are excellent at being that element of surprise more than any other class due to having stealth, mobility and burst.

They also have some of the best get-away tools in the game, I have honestly lost count of how many times I literally EXPLODE a glass thief, bring him down to 10% health, next moment he’s gone and I’m spamming AoE’s everywhere with no luck.
Sure he lost that node – but he was successful in robbing our team of the kill, and went to another node to cause an unbalanced fight there.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

but i still hear a lot of people claiming that warrior are very powderful wor, how? O_O

Warriors are also powerful (if not the best class in the game right now), but this thread is about Thieves :P

Muchacho.2390:

Good thieves yes, bad ones no…

Actually even a bad thief can do alright, more effective than how much “room for being bad” other classes have (except Warrior). Unloading initiative and running away works great against other bad players.

As long as Thieves have stealth and the best stomp in the game (blind field + stealth), as well as access to high burst damage & mobility…they will remain one of the best classes in SPvP, they can fill some key roles extremely well.

For example, the Rogue class in World Of Warcraft has ALWAYS been a top-tier PvP class for 8 years, simply due to stealth, mobility and stunlock capability. All other classes have gone through an extreme rollercoaster of balance. 8 years. Think about that. GW2 Thief holds similar strengths (sort of).

I am of the opinion that classes with stealth, high damage and “cheap” get-away abilities will always have a guaranteed role in SPvP. I mean christ, look at what Mesmers can do currently.

TheGreatA.4192:

I’m afraid when Rizadon bursts me into the dirt.

I agree with the guy who said that ele has high skill-cap. When played to perfection, it is right up there with anything else. But most won’t put up the effort to learn the class when you can get away with easier stuff.

If you strip away the player and just look at the class mechanics & numbers, ANY other class “played to perfection” has better potential than Elementalist in any given role.

It’s just that no other class NEEDS to be “played to perfection” to completely wreck an Ele. I don’t think you’ve seen what a pro Engineer is capable of.

I think the fact he put “sustained” and “burst” in the same sentence means he can be safely ignored.

Mbelch.9028:

Also, don’t just follow the “meta” most of the best builds aren’t found by sticking to the “meta”.

That only applies to Ele’s because of their constant struggle to make something work : /

Skyhammer.

That is all.

P Fun Daddy.1208:

I’ve come to realize that the reason Elementalists are not viable in PvP is pretty much just thieves and to a lesser extent mesmers.

Bursty classes with stealth and plenty of teleports will eat you alive, because you have minimal defensive capabilities.

Umm…“minimal defensive capabilities” doesn’t mean you only get blown up just by 2 classes. It means if you’re not careful you can get blown up by ANY class that uses a damage-heavy build, even other Ele’s.
Sure, Ele’s are free kills for Thieves and Mesmers. But 1v1’s against Rangers, Necros, Engineers or Warriors don’t go all that much easier unless you vastly out-skill them.

Umm…why are you looking to roll an Ele for SPvP? I’m just putting out there that it’s by far the worst class in SPvP right now, could almost be called a liability on the team.

D/D Diamond Skin 0/0/30/20/20
D/D Rock Solid 0/0/20/20/30
S/D Fresh Air 0/0/30/0/10/30
S/D Balanced 0/0/20/0/20/30
Staff Berzerker 30/20/0/10/10
Staff Bunker 0/0/30/20/20 or 0/0/20/20/30

Amulet can be Berzerker, Soldiers or Celestial depending on how fast you want to die. Runes can be whatever, go either full power/crit or defensive (really won’t change the outcome). Slot skills are Ether Renewal, and either full Cantrips or a mix of Cantrips + Arcane Wave (blast finisher) and/or Arcane Shield.

But seriously, in SPvP all the above builds are terrible compared to any viable build of the 7 other classes.

reikken.4961:

Even the running heavy golem in the heart of the mists has enough time to get up and jog out of the way if you down it with earthquake and immediately use dragon’s tooth on it.

Hmm ok. Well that sucks, don’t know how to make it land on anything then.

Burnfall.9573:

In support to the Op, i took my necromancer to wvw and was 1vs1 with an elementalist, i asked myself, why not 1 drop of damage?

I even had party members who came to my aid to burst that elementalist with their conditions, again, no damage whatsoever.

There’s even a thread about their aoe’kittenting all the way inside of a keep, preventing players from defending their keep.

Seriously, we need the balance team from guild war 1 back or a new balance team who do not practice Elitism and Favoritism.

We are very tired of it.

Enough! is Enough!

If you and your friends were all running builds that do ZERO power damage then you’re only asking for trouble against anti-condi bunkers. It’s like running headfirst into a brick wall instead of simply making a slight adjustment and walking around it.

It’s the equivalent of me running a build with zero cleanse abilities, you would simply condi-spam me to death and I wouldn’t be able to do anything about it.
Welcome to rock paper scissors, the more you “corner” yourself into one type the harder you will get eaten by your counter.

That’s all I’m going to say.

It’s only possible to hit someone in 1v1 with it if you combo it after Updraft or Earthquake, but only if you’re extremely fast (even then they have just enough time to recover and dodge).
One of it’s biggest strengths is that it’s a blast finisher, so try to land DT into fire or water field. Most of your damage as S/D should be coming from Lightning #2 and clutch Phoenix / Fire Grab, with maybe the occasional Earth #2 (Hurl).
Oh but also pay attention to what the opponent is doing because while you’re busy trying to play a piano, you could quickly die.

I agree that it seriously needs to be a ground-targeted skill. Would be a hell of a lot more useful if we could drop it wherever we wanted.

Slot skills like Signets, Glyphs and Conjures also need help. Currently you either run Cantrips or Arcane stuff, aside from that everything else is useless.

The worst part of the cannon is if I happen to be a glass Ele. It removes around ~90% of my health in 1 hit. That’s not even funny.

Spend the gold if you really enjoy the class. ANet themselves said they will be discussing ways to buff Ele’s (after holidays are over, which they are) and bringing us that info soon. At this point it’s not even up for debate that Ele’s need help.

Hopefully they actually THINK this time and don’t do a repeat of Dec 10 patch.

Assassin.7890:

Until then -> bf4

I can’t decide what is more frustrating to play, GW2 Ele in or BF4 in general :P

mysticsicness.7598:

The Elementalist downed state (where they spend a good amount of time playing from) is extremely OP. Their #2 ability is a huge hindrance to melee trying to kill them quickly, so that they may move on to the next Ele.

They can also jump off ledges with #2 and kill themselves instantly, denying me of a proper stomp. Come to think of it, I don’t think I’ve ever properly stomped a downed Ele. They either get destroyed by damage…or suicide.

That is just ridiculously unfair and OP.

Mike.4830:

Just got word from a certain dev… Eles are being removed from the game and are being replaced with a new light armor class… passivemancer…. which as the name hints is entirely passive… the only time you need to touch your keyboard is to type on the forum al your complaints…. due to your lack of player skill..

I hope they have Signet Of Passiveness on that class.

> Much faceroll
> Very fire
> Stronk attunements
> Sword MADE OF FIRE
> Bow MADE OF ICE
> So tornado
> Ride The Lightning best mobility in game
> Spells that kill everyone with lag

PLS NERF

cymerdown.4103:

Wow, I don’t see where you get off calling my document the Engi holocaust. I’m only nerfing nades, bombs, elixir r, and supply crate… you know, the useful stuff.

Sounds like an Engi holocaust -_-

ThiBash.5634:

There have been several threads in the past 2 months that showed how to deal dps equal to or greater than that of warriors (both with and without lightning hammer) but somehow those threads are drowned by the huge amount of cries of players who aren’t satisfied with their performance.

Players who aren’t satisfied with their performance in what? SPvP or PvE?

It’s still a fact that Ele’s can deal some of the highest DPS in PvE, especially with bosses cornered into walls.

The crying is coming from players of SPvP (mostly) and the occasional newbie who is finding the class hard to play. It’s unrelated to PvE.

When players of other classes are saying they have no issues stomping 90% of the Ele’s they run into, and that they would literally prefer having any other class in their team over an Ele, you know there is a problem. I’ve seen it from their perspective when playing as Engineer or Mesmer.

ThiBash.5634:

Part of the elementalist’s poor reputation comes from threads like this, where whenever someone posts something positive about elementalists, people are quick to list all possible counters to explain why it won’t work. However, apparently it does work…but of course it won’t work all the time. Nothing does. Realistically you have a 50% chance to win any 1v1 fight…there should be 0% chance to win 1v2. Any build can be countered, and any spike interrupted. So maybe the expectations are simply to high…any build can be countered.

When something “works” with Ele, it’s primarily due to skill gap and out-playing the opponent. Build plays a very small role, people adapt builds to their specific requirements/playstyle and after that it’s all skill + out-playing.

Quincy.2198:

Why does anet want ele to be removed from spvp? Are they kidding me?

Alright it was a cynical joke, it’s hard to stay positive when ArenaNet have kept Ele’s at the bottom of the food chain for so long now while other classes/builds got buffed through the roof.

Their latest and most extensive attempt at “buffing” Ele’s (Dec 10 patch) made a lot of Ele players deeply concerned that ANet have absolutely no clue what to do with the class. The patch broke many builds and utterly failed to address ANY of the core issues with the class, and that’s not even mentioning Diamond Skin.

Obviously they don’t want the class eliminated from SPvP, but they are making it extremely difficult for Ele players to not just re-roll something else like Engineer or Mesmer and have some proper fun in SPvP for once.

For what it’s worth, take a look at this: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Best-PVP-Class-1-January-2014/first

To answer your question, it’s the complete OPPOSITE of “elementalist meta” right now. Ele is the last class anyone considers bringing to SPvP since their weaknesses vastly out-weigh their strengths when compared to any of the 7 other classes.

Don’t let that stop you from experimenting though, if you genuinely enjoy how the class plays then keep playing it. ANet wants to remove the class completely from SPvP but we need people like you to stay loyal to it

Thanks for the work! At least it paints some kind of picture for us players about the grand scheme of things.

Sadly ArenaNet will never release such information to us, and they have the entire statistical database of all matches since the game’s release

Pretty much. Churning Earth + Lightning Flash into an enemy group could almost be considered suicidal, because if you happen to get caught even in a single CC (knockdown, immob, stun, etc) in the chaos then it’s all 100% of your health gone in the blink of an eye.

It’s quite possible to die to random AoE damage flying around that wasn’t even targeted at the Ele. The other day I pulled a meteor + tornado setup over a node just as enemies ran in, the very first thing that happened was 2 enemy Ele’s went down INSTANTLY (must have been full zerker) + a downed thief. I just laughed XD

LightningBlaze.4913:

cheshirefox.7026:

i like elementalist because any other profession in this game can solo hard counter it

if the user playing the elementalist is horrible then that is absolutely the case.

Actually even the “average” player of another class trying their hand at Ele will realize they are constantly getting stomped by almost every other class/build out there.
The only case where the Ele is handed an easy win is 0/0/30/20/20 (diamond skin) D/D Ele going up against a full-condi Necro (carrion).
Other than that specific situation, it’s all hard work and out-playing your opponent.

- Spells look cool
- Gives me a nice break from playing Engineer
- Awesome AoE with staff

That’s about it.

Warrior has the highest passive regen in the game and overall the best healing next to only bunker guardian.
With the more bunker/balanced Ele builds (lower damage) if you don’t apply CONSTANT damage pressure to the warrior, he’ll simply out-heal your damage without even doing anything.

Think pre-nerf Signet Of Restoration, then make it even stronger and completely passive and you get Healing Signet.

Malganis.7468:

I’m not understanding why Ele’s have the lowest health, and the lowest armor, but not the highest damage to compensate?

In comparison, Warriors have the highest health, highest armor, and the highest damage, and their trade off is the lowest healing.

Ele has “highest damage” with Lightning Hammer and FGS (into wall), but in that regard it’s highly specific to PvE.
As for PvP…well if grossly disproportionate amounts of attention that PvE content gets compared to PvP wasn’t obvious enough, ANet really don’t care about PvP all that much.