Guild Wars 2

Grackleflint.4956:

Wolf.5816:

Potent PvP healing combo.

What you will need:Rifle/Healing Turret/Rocket Boots.

-Tip: This combo is best used immidiatly after a successful Net Shot/Overcharged Shot.

Combo:
1)Deploy Healing Turret (Get base heal and mild Regeneration)
2)Detonate Healing Turret within its Water Field. (Gain mild base heal)
3)immidiatly activate Rocket Boots launching your self away from the target while activating another Water Field from the Healing Turrets Water Field. (Gain slight base heal)
4)Begin activating the Healing Turrets Tool Belt Skill Regenerating Mist while you pick yourself up. (Regeneration re-applied while creating an additional Water Field.)
5)Rocket Jump out of the Water Field back towards your enemy. (Mild base heal)

This combo is realiable, and very consistent in PvP.

Question about step 5: How do you get another Rocket Boot activation? Did you mean Jump Shot?

Fixed. Sorry about that! Yes I meant Jump Shot back towards your opponent, triggering the final Water Combo Field heal while closing the gap to your opponent.

Potent PvP healing combo.

What you will need:Rifle/Healing Turret/Rocket Boots.

-Tip: This combo is best used immidiatly after a successful Net Shot/Overcharged Shot.

Combo:
1)Deploy Healing Turret (Get base heal and mild Regeneration)
2)Detonate Healing Turret within its Water Field. (Gain mild base heal)
3)immidiatly activate Rocket Boots launching your self away from the target while activating another Water Field from the Healing Turrets Water Field. (Gain slight base heal)
4)Begin activating the Healing Turrets Tool Belt Skill Regenerating Mist while you pick yourself up. (Regeneration re-applied while creating an additional Water Field.)
5)Jump Shot out of the Water Field back towards your enemy. (Mild base heal)

This combo is realiable, and very consistent in PvP.

Overcharged Shot is the only Rifle Ability that will not hit players if they immediately gained invisibility apon Overcharged Shots activation. The rest will fire, and still strike a target that has recently been dropped from your UI. The self Knock Back from this skill is prevented with Stability but will not trigger any related traits that activate on Knock Back.

Activating The Engineers Net Shot skill then immediately jumping, will allow for the projectile to travel over obstacles that would otherwise “Obstruct” Net Shot. This can be used effectively to avoid hitting pets when trying to target the master.

I’d like a the Rifles Hip Shot to have this effect. Or at least to increased damage to immobilized foes.

I think a lot of the frustration comes from discovering or finally mastering a build only to have the key mechanics altered or removed in a patch.

Opinion, one of the best things to remember when fighting an Engineer.

-Immobilize is a condition and will still effect players with Stability

There are much better applications than Flamethrower for AoE. When the Flamethrower had its "Double Pop" it was very viable for a multitude of builds. Now that its been removed however it is usually used for its ability to rapidly apply "on crit" conditions. Having only 2 primary offensive skills it is very lack luster in other regards. Although Flame Jets fast attack speed can apply several conditions, and Napalm’s combo field will allow easy access to additional Burning aside from the Tool Belts Incendiary ammo. While the Air Blast knock Back is just more CC that any build can use, All this and it’s easy Access to synergistic traits can add to a fun (and aesthetically pleasing) build. Great for "Hot Join Hero" players but you will notice immediately it’s viability drop off once fighting skilled players, and all it’s pros can arguably be found in most other Kits with less trait allocation required.

Concerning the OP, All in all the Flamethrower Kit does need to be leaned in a direction for its performance is easily undermined by other kits. But currently it’s most viable application is in condition/might building specs.

Death match would be fun, and ahh… Dueling. But It would also be interesting to see a Survival mode (where everyone is aloud 1 life per game.) This would be even more fun with smaller teams in smaller maps.

Even if they just reduced the knock back range or something of the sort… Knock Back on Detonate would be a great baseline. The combos I could pull…

What if Turrets, either through traits or otherwise, gave off an aura that buffed the Engineer alone with a unique boon called Tracer Rounds that gives the Engineer a 5% chance on hit to apply Bulls Eye to target opponent while within range of a Turrets aura. This would force all turrets to target the opponent with the “Bulls Eye” condition.

When applied to an opponent Bulls Eye would be a non-curable unique condition (like Warriors Sword off hand “Impale” skill.) This Debuff would state: “You have been targeted with a Tracer Round, you take 3% more damage from Turrets.” Only the opponent Highlighted can be inflicted with this condition.

Bulls Eye has a base duration of 6 seconds With an internal cooldown of three seconds. When inflicted by this condition it stacks respectively with the amount of Tracer Rounds on the Engineer at the time of its application. For Example:
-An Engineer standing nearby four turrets will have four stacks of “Tracer Rounds” giving him a 20% chance to apply the Bulls Eye to his target. When inflicted by “Bulls Eye” from this Engineer you would receive four stacks of Bulls Eye increasing damage from turrets by a total of 12%.

I tried to make this easy to digest, but apologize for its wordy-ness.

This suggestion comes from the perspective that there are no design limitations and the names are merely place holders. I figure this is a fun yet balanced way to make Turrets a more viable option for PvP as well as PvE.

Kimbald.2697:

Wolf.5816:

I always envisioned a Similar named trait except it aloud deploying Turrets to be stun breakers with a 20 seconds internal cooldown. Since from my experience running full turrets can make you very vulnerable to burst.

if the turret is deployed, you can detonate (or maybeovercharge too) I believe when stunned.
Not perfect, but it’s better than nothing.

I would have to test the overcharge though, so will see if an npc ‘dummy’ in the Mists stuns as well.

Currently, The only time you cannot detonate a deployed turrent is in the Downed state and while under the effects of Elixir S. (I feel this should be changed, for Rangers can swap/activate pet abilities while downed.) Also, instantly activating an overcharge ability apon turrent deployment will bump its effect to Que up as soon as possible, So very close to instantly activating. The problem I find is most Turrets overcharge abilities would be more useful if they were saved for “the right time.” Giving its que based nature a bit of a spray and pray mentality. Instead I find useing Net Turret/Healing Turret as if they were a “Persistant Utility Skill” and simply deploy them, overcharge them and Detonate them will usually yield the best results in PvP scenarios.

I always envisioned a Similar named trait except it aloud deploying Turrets to be stun breakers with a 20 seconds internal cooldown. Since from my experience running full turrets can make you very vulnerable to burst.

Giving Turrets “Target my Target” would greatly improve their application in eng game PvP. Possibly even make them a reasonable viable alternative to the current cookie cutter builds.

I would definitely enjoy a kind of “Reload Timer” on the Kit Refinement Trait, letting us know when it would be more beneficial to swap a kit would at least justify the Global Kit cooldown as apposed to (opinion) what I feel would be more reasonable, simply giving each kit its own internal cool down. At any rate, it would certainly be helpful to see Cool downs on weapon skills while in kits I just shudder to see how the UI would accommodate Elementalists and their alternate skill cool downs, and for that reason I doubt it will ever come to pass.

Magnet cast time can be brutal, but being able to swap back into Main Hand when channeling is an amazing trick. Pulling into a Rifles Blunderbuss>Overcharged Shot>Net Shot>Throw Wrench. Or Magnet into a Pistol off hands Glue Shot>Blowtortch, both these combos work seamlessly and very effectively against almost all Professions. Not to mention Using Box Of Nails immediately before creates a bleeding/cripple field that is invisisible to your enemies making it a perfect set up for Big Ole’ Bomb and Has great synergy with Concussion Bomb>Pry Bar. Using its channel time to your advantage is key with all kits. But as mention previously, pulling a foe from such a great distance instantly would be very powerful since in tight situations it can be used simply to CC your opponents, Preventing their DPS for a few seconds.

I was thinking of ways to have the Healing Turret pass healing bolts from one turret and back again, healing them. But seeing as in PvP the longer you have your healing turret out, the more detrimental it is because it won’t start the cool down till it is destroyed. And it’s mild regeneration and lengthy condition removal cool down makes it more practical to just drop and pop. Having send waves that damage foes and heal allies that you can essential guide feels (to me) like a balanced option to keeping the turret alive.

Basically the Turret Expert would split turret builds into two types, disposable turret builds, and non disposable turret builds. It’s a trade off, as all things. Not being able to activate combo finishers through detonation, or knock people away is the price for your increased utility and sustained damage. Now there’s an option to keep your turrets alive to continue doing damage while still navigating around dangerous PvP situations.

New Engineer Trait Turret Expert: “Turrets now provide additional abilities. They can no longer be detonated.”

Explanation
Taking this trait replaces all turrets “Detonate Turret” ability, with a alternate ability specific to each turret. These new abilities are essentially another Overcharge ability except they happen instantly and are usually defensive in nature.

Choosing this trait will allow incentive for turret longevity in combat, and promotes more diverse game play option by adding more Turret Utility, encouraging the player to keep turrets active to gain their advantage instead of using them as a disposable items.

Although the abilities can be activated instantly they do have a varying projectile travel speed so it is important to make sure your are within range of your Turrets effects.

-Healing Turret-Mist Dispenser:Emits a swirling Elixir infused spiral every few seconds, bouncing from you then back to the turret. Converting one condition into a boon on ally’s while converting one boon into a condition on foes.
-Flame Turret-Oil Slick:Lobs a large glob of Oil Lubricant at you, causing you to evade attacks for 1 second. Breaks Stuns and removes immobilize.
-Rifle Turret-Twin Compartment: Deploys an additional Rifle Turret nearby the original.
-Rocket Turret-Propelled Cache: Launches a rocket propelled cache at your location, Damaging foes and releasing a “Antidote” after landing.
-Net Turret-Safety Net:Fires a tethered Safety Net at you pulling you to the Net Turret and out of danger.
-Thumper Turret-Polarity Scrambler:Activate your Thumper Turrets Magnetic Polarity Inversion field, creating a dome around your turret that reflects projectiles for 4 seconds.

Zinwrath.2049:

I’ll log on my necro or gaurdian if anyone wants to test the usefulness of the flamethrower post patch vs me …hell i’ll even whip out the elementalist or mesmer ^.^.

Tbh, in spvp i won almost every encounter with a FT user on my main professions…(even with the double pop bug).grenade users are the only ones that ever beat me (not always, but it feels more like a fair fight). FT needs slightly higher damage ramping, and a higher cap on targets for its auto attack…otherwise i just melt FT users with retaliation and superior damage. (maybe replace napalm with a boon removal…“shoots out fire that burns off players boons?”)

Its supposed to be a weapon kit not a utility kit (same with elixer gun). They’re supposed to be worth keeping out for more than 3 seconds before putting back (thus why juggernaut trait rewards you for keeping the FT out majority of the time). However, this is a bad decision right now..

I just wanted to agree with this post. Particarly “supposed to be a weapon kit not a utility kit”. For this is what I feel the Flamethrower Kit has been pigeon holed into, in general, not to mention since the removal of the “Double Pop”.

In non-condition Builds (Pre-patch) the Flamethrower Kits Flame Blast’s “Double Pop” aloud you to apply pressure by utilizing actual power. This power came in a form that required notable skill to fully utilize even against opponents that are not used to seeing the Flamethrower Kit in a competitive format. This opened the door way to more unique applications of the Flamethrower Kit amongs multiple builds while simulatiously keeping its DPS incheck. Allowing it to only apply its greater damage to foes who choose to stay in a 600 range was an excellent inhibitor to maintain balance. Forcing the Flamethrower Kit’s true potential to come from placement and control. (Which is arguably an Engineers forte)

Unfortunately, since this has been removed the Flamethrower Kit has lost it’s viability in deep PvP environments. Granted its condition based utility is still functioning, (even though most Engineer players I have talked too feel there are much more efficient condition options)

The loss of the Flame Blast’s “Double Pop” has severely hurt its application in PvP meta, and that is not just simply my opinion.

So to answer the OP: The Flamethrower Kit’s viability is very limited, and in its current state would be most applicable in very specific condition builds primarily for its tool belt ability Incendiary ammo and for its quick Knock Back and decent attack speed for applying “on crit” effects. (Opinion) But even with these facts there are a lot more viable options in condition builds makings the removal of the “Double Pop” simply hurt the over-all effectiveness of this kit as a whole.

Ayestes.1273:

Without doing math, I think it’d still be weaker then Ele healing. I however don’t think our healing should be as strong as an Ele, but I would love it if our survival did actually come more from healing then evasion or mitigation.

As an example I think our Perma Vigor access should be pushed deeper while our Heals get a unique boost in functionality. Toss Elixir H should have a splash heal, Healing Turret should actually pulse some direct heals with a smaller Regen effect, and Med Kit pickups should splash the effects in a small radius. That’s kind of me just being wishful though, as I kinda think we should be the perfect mix of moderate sustain, moderate evasion, and moderate mitigation. Not superior in any category unless specialized, but not equal to or weaker then anyone else in those categories either.

I think in general our survival isn’t really where it should be though, and I would like it improved. I think improving it mostly in the sustain department would be the right place to do it design and flavor wise.

Very nice suggestions. I think those are all very solid changes to consider.

How’s this?

Tool Trait changes.
-Always Prepared:Now just drops Bandages and a Net Turret when downed.
-Packaged Stimulants:No longer allows Med Kit skills to be thrown, instead drops 2 Stimulants simultaneously instead of one.
-Deployable Turrets:Turrets no longer use ground targeting. Instead, Deploying a turret will now break stuns. (This effect can only happen once every 30 seconds.)
-Scope: Name changed to Aim. Remaining still for 2 seconds will give your next attack 100% critical chance and cause your next attack to Daze for 1 second. (This effect can only happen every 15 seconds)

Inventions Trait changes
-Metal Plating:Now also reduces Area of Effect damage to turrets by 60% while still reducing other damage by 30%.
-Stabilized Armor:Will ignore the next Daze/Stun/Knock Back that would affect your character, instead consuming 1 bar of endurance. (this effect can only happen with full endurance and only once every 30 seconds) in addition to reducing all damage taken by 5% when endurance is full.
-Power Shoes:No longer increases run speed by 25% in combat, instead will now cause you to quickly sprint to a distance of 400 from your target when you are Stunned or Immobilize. (This effect can only happen once ever 50 seconds)
-Autotool instillation:Turrets will now occasionally shoot Healing Bolts at you in addition to self repair.

Firearms Trait changes
-Infused Precision:No longer gives a chance to gain Swiftness on critical hit. Instead Critical hits have a 3% chance to exchange a condition from you onto your foe while Removing a boon from your foe and giving it to you for 3 seconds. (This effect can only occur every 30 seconds)
-Sitting Duck:No longer applies Vulnerability to Immobilized foes. Instead gives a 8% critical hit chance to Immobilized foes.
-Juggernaut:This trait now also causes Flame Blast to detonate twice at the end of its attack animation if not detonated, in addition to its other effects.

Explosions Trait changes
-Exploit Weakness: Now also improves damage to crippled foes by 5% in addition to inflicting Cripple to foes with less than 25% health.

Alchemy Trait changes
-Acidic Coating:Now also reduces damage received from foes who are afflicted with Poision by 5% in addition to its other effects.
-Automated Responce:Will now cure all conditions in addition to condition immunity at 25% health. (This effect now has a 25 second Cooldown)

Terrahero.9358:

As far as im concerned FT was never viable, and either picked because fun meant more then viability. Or used for its control and niché effects. Something you switch to when you want to airblast a Thief out of his Shadow Refuge.
Something you switch to when you are going to stomp someone, so you can use your off GCD blind to prevent getting interupted.
Something you switch to, to throw out a decently hitting Flameblast because your other weapon/kit skills are on cooldown.

But not something to tape to your back and say “daddy is home, now we burn the infidels”, because you will be sorely disapointed if you have any comparitve metric from another profession.

It is true that the Flamethrower Kit has a remarkably steep learning curb ( which was made worse by the addition of the Engineer professions already large learning curb) and has its share of flaws, But having practiced for a notable amount of time it performs quite well with the combined CC of the rifle. The only problem i seem to run into is in the lack of condition removal against Bunker/condition builds. But the damage from Flame Blast made killing them possible. (If your CC’s wernt mitigated, and if you successfully landed the Flame Blast reliably.) It was, Pre-Patch a relatively challenging/rewarding experience to be able to fight off bad match ups (Mesmers/Condition Necromancers/Bunker Rangers) with a chance at killings them.

Zinwrath.2049:

Phineas Poe.3018:

google.3709:

completely agree, it felt like skillful play with the double pop since you we’re always controlling your positioning and your enemy’s in order to get max effect! and there was a reward for this kind of play style

I like how people complained for months that Flame Blast had to be used from 600 range. And then once the bug came about, people loved it.

They need to buff Flame Blast’s damage. Not bring back the “double pop.”

this.

It’s refreshing to see consistent bright posts from fellow Engineers. I figure If we actually provide constructive feedback over the latest Flamethrower Kits loss in viability. Perhaps it might find its way to the eyes of a developer, and be received in a positive light. Maby even have its Flame Blast restored. (Opinion) which I feel would be all the Kit truly needs to have an offensive edge. I would hope the rest of the tweaks would come in the form of defensive effects although this is a topic for a different thread.

google.3709:

Wolf.5816:

I used the Flamethrower to some nice effect, (Pre-Patch) When dueling skilled players it was never concidered “overpowered”. Each skill has to be used in its proper place, and broadcasts very visual tells to opponents making a very practice based kit. (Opinion) Applying Pressure is something that non-grenade Engineers have trouble achieving. The “Double Pop” on Flame Blast was the only thing keeping the Flamethrower Kit applicable in meta PvP, And encouraged staying in this kit for longer while also allowed for some much needed synergy with the Juggernaut trait in non-condition builds.

I just pray Anet brings the “Double Pop” back.

completely agree, it felt like skillful play with the double pop since you we’re always controlling your positioning and your enemy’s in order to get max effect! and there was a reward for this kind of play style

Very well put Google, controlling your position was such a challenging/rewarding play style that Flamethrower dominant builds could actually use to appear viable even against some condition builds. While simultaneously giving an ability to tango with Bunker Builds giving you pressure and sustain from well timed Flame Blast’s the ability to whittle away at Mesmers and Elementalists who are now ( post-patch) impossible to kill. (Of course I mean skilled players in organized PvP, Hot join is not exactly a grounds to prove viability and from this most builds can appear “overpowered” to new players who have not yet learned proper counter play.)

I used the Flamethrower to some nice effect, (Pre-Patch) When dueling skilled players it was never concidered “overpowered”. Each skill has to be used in its proper place, and broadcasts very visual tells to opponents making a very practice based kit. (Opinion) Applying Pressure is something that non-grenade Engineers have trouble achieving. The “Double Pop” on Flame Blast was the only thing keeping the Flamethrower Kit applicable in meta PvP, And encouraged staying in this kit for longer while also allowed for some much needed synergy with the Juggernaut trait in non-condition builds.

I just pray Anet brings the “Double Pop” back.

I’d also love some more cut scenes! Particularly ones that have your character performing actions in the cut scenes. Those were always my favorite.

Stationary machine gun would be amazing, and possibly have some applications in WvW. But It would have no use in the Mists. Not unless it summoned a NPC to fire it for you while you remain mobile. I would enjoy a Elite Kit with a cast time, and a CD. Perhaps a Chainsaw.

The Flamethrower is no longer viable in end game “Mist” PvP.

That’s is to say, Condition builds can use it mildly although there are arguable, much more efficient options. Short from taking advantage of Hot Join Suprise, it is no longer capable of applying the pressure it needed to stay near the same level as the other professions in meta.

Please let this skin be availible next Holloween! :P

I completely agree, This could also apply to all Professions. And is a very “easier said than done” topic. But the principle is spot on.

(Opinion) I wish nerfs came more In the form of reduced attack range, attack speed, or simply more telegraphed “tells”. Promoting more skill based play, and a more rewarding experience. Instead of just taking away effects completely, reducing damage or applying longer Cool down as a solution. I know this suggestion could not be applied to specific abilities but that’s why this is just my opinion.

I would even be more accepting if they simply changed the functionality of the Flamethrower Kit from CC & Burst (Pre-Patch) to more Utility, like previously discussed by the developers. But instead the damage has been removed, not even reduced. This is why I believe it is no longer usable in higher scalp PvP.

But while on the subject of Smoke Vent I always thought removing the Blind effect and replacing it with a 1 second Distort effect while keeping its current cooldown would make it very appealing while not tipping the scales of balance. Although this alone would not make the Flamethrower Kit Viable for end game PvP. It would help builds that use the flamethrower as a “Pop and swap” kit.

All in all No.

(Opinion) More things that were detrimental than were beneficial. I feel the cons out weighed the pro’s.

nakoda.4213:

just spent the last hour in hotjoin, 6 games, 1k glory, 4 wins, 2 losses, two matches with over 230 points.

had fun, don’t see why you all mew about the ft. it is awesome.

A quote from a previous post: “I use the term viable, to insist that beyond of taking advantage of hot join surprise it is no longer applicable.”

Wolf.5816:

I have tested it, and it now lacks the proper power to be used. Now with the Flamethrower Kit we still have good Crowd Control and nothing to do but watch them heal after they get up. To be honest I’m shocked it was changed at all, at least allow Juggernaut trait to return the “Double Pop” or give Flamethrower more “Utility” in exchange as was previously mentioned. But alas, I’m just speechless.

Please note that this Thread is mainly discussing the PvP application and viability of the Flamethrower Kit in the Mist’s. as I am aware of it’s application in WvW for “Tagging” multiple foes for Badges. (Although there is arguably better alternatives for this.)

@Phineas Poe

(Opinion) subtracting individual players behavior, I never found Flamethrower provides much Durability aside from the Knock Back, which I feel has most synergy when used offensively after a high Burn to increase its duration and to set up for Flame Blast. Juggernaut Traits 200 toughness is noticeable but the best way for an engineer to mitigate damage is to just not get hit. Aside from Med Kit the Elixir Kit, Tool Kit, And Bomb Kit have much greater defensive skills giving much more durability and longevity to high scale PvP. Even the Grenade Kits access to Chill and Blind (blind that has longer range and lower cooldown than Flamethrower kit) makes it arguably more durable than the Flamethrower. All this I’m sure you already know being an Engineer Player, I’m just curious in a Friendly way how your new (patch) Flamethrower results are in organized PvP?

I state in the OP the Flamethrower Kit is no longer viable in non-condition builds in end game PvP. (That is to say meta PvP where your opponents are aware of all other profession skills and builds) I use the term viable, to insist that beyond of taking advantage of hot join surprise it is no longer applicable. I have tested it against the same skilled players/professions/builds (Condition Bunker Ranger, Mesmers, Elementalists, Condition Necromancers) the only variable being the Patch. I could usually win the majority of fights, at around 80% if I had to make a guess. But not from exploits, the matches were usually won with less than 25% health and I would usually lose to simply being out played. (Having key CC mitigated) in my opinion a fair/fun way to lose. Now against those same players I have a 20% win percentage.

Don’t get met my wrong, I’m not trying to complain per say, I’m just saying I feel the changes to Flamethrower Kit has made it no longer viable in end game PvP.

nakoda.4213:

I hate repeating myself, but since you all sounlike a broken record, I might as well:

food for thieves and warriors? LOL. l2p.
no control? LOL. l2p.
no damage? LOL. l2p.

your 10 minutes of being eaten alive by better players than you while you experiment with a spec you are unfamiliar with does not make the spec broken.

Nerf to FT2? LOL. You all KNEW it was a bug, and relied on it anyways. l2p.
- me, my dps has gone up because im no longer cherry picking when to use it, I blow things up as often as possible.
the bug existed for all of one month and you kittens are all “mewl mewl” how will I ever make it now!

LOL.

once again, my build saw only buffs and bug fixes (ft/rifle, net turret). The eg saw major rework and improvement. turrets saw buffs and fixes all around.

why are mmo so different from other games? you are entitled to nothing but the privilege of playing the game the revs provide for you. you are entitled to give feedback, but stop acting like you are entitled to everything you want.

it’s like joining a club; you go when the club meets and do what the club does because that’s how it works. you make suggestions, but ultimately, you leav when it no longer suits your interests. the club doesn’t have to cater to you, but it tries.

there are, by my count, more than seven commonly discussed builds effective in a variety of situations, and this patch just added one more while buffing almost everything we have.

the KR saw alteration, not a nerf. you can still swap kits freely, you can still pull off chain combos, blah blah blah.

maybe farmville or any of its knock-offs might be more your speed.

Interesting Opinion… But doesn’t make the Flamethrower Kit viable in end game PvP.

Engineer had some painful changes. Most notably is how they removed the Flamethrower Kit from PvP. (By removing Flame Blasts viability.)

It wasn’t overpowered in end game PvP. It has a huge tell, there for I usually used it for pressure, forcing people to dodge, or blow damage mitigation. Which is time they have to use instead of Healing/Applying more conditions/Ccing me. But i used it more for area control when in 1v1, Forcing Opponents to stay in close range. It’s application was amazing but now we just simply have nothing to do with our CC’s as aside from 100 Grenades, Engineers have no true burst. (Opinion) Kit Refinement is hurting, especially with the Tool Kit and the short Fire Field when swapping to Flamethrower every 20 seconds is hardly viable. When you can get a Fire Field from Jump Shot in less than 20 seconds while staying mobile and possibly doing nice damage. Flamethrower Kit has literally been swatted out of the hands of any non-condition build Engineer. I was just getting used to it too… -sigh- Guess we were not meant to play with matches after all..

I have tested it, and it now lacks the proper power to be used. Now with the Flamethrower Kit we still have good Crowd Control and nothing to do but watch them heal after they get up. To be honest I’m shocked it was changed at all, at least allow Juggernaut trait to return the “Double Pop” or give Flamethrower more “Utility” in exchange as was previously mentioned. But alas, I’m just speechless.

Flamethrower Kit is no longer viable.

We have so much CC and nothing to do with it all now.

I agree if us, as Engineer, players have any sway over the Flamethrower, please give us this back. The Double PoP was the only thing keeping the Flamethrower dream alive. please bring the Double Detonate back or make it trait able

Lord Aargadon.4135:

The “Double Pop” is fixed, guess flamethrower is no longer viable in the meta.

He is corret, Flamethrower is no longer a viable option for non-condition builds in End game PvP. The “Double Pop” was the heart of this kit, now it has stopped beating.

Why did they have to remove the Flamethrowers “Double pop” it was the only thing keeping the dream alive…:(

I haven’t had a chance to experiment, but the only thing keeping Flamethrower viable pre-patch in non-condition builds was the “Double pop” that Flame blast had giving the Engineer an ability to finally apply pressure. Now that this is taken away, I fear the worst for its PvP Meta application. I just don’t know what to say… Any opinions?

It works better when activating a smoke field. Or into Elixir S. Assuming most players don’t react very fast it can work well. But in meta PvP Rocket Boots makes just as good of a Gap closer as a Gap opener. Most profession can simply watch the visual cue and run up to you as your getting up and re-apply and Chill,Cripple immobilize. As if nothing was gained…

Lord Aargadon.4135:

Im not saying anything is wrong but the exploiting, if you want to go GC then by all means go ahead. But the exploiting… its a little silly and frankly I see it as another one of the reasons pvp is pretty much dead in this game, everyone just flocks to the easiest build to play effectively, I dont give a crap how it deals double damage, just like how nades sometimes detonate twice or three times each underwater, Ill just play it fair and avoid whats broken.

But anyways, lets get this thread back on track and drop the exploit talk.

The “Double Pop” is one of the only things keeping the Flamethrower Kit viable in meta PvP. Without its ability to apply pressure/burst it would be unusable in non-condition builds. It allows an Engineer to keep a mild area control, forcing smart opponents into long range (safer distance to dodge/heal) or close range (allows rifle to shine). This is not a overpowered move.(opinion) I mean from my experience if you can’t dodge a slow moving predictable glowing fireball you were probably doomed from the start. I just pray they do not change this.

Penguin.5197:

Rocket boots should throw us in a random direction.

Pro:
If we’re lucky it’ll help chase down someone fleeing

Con:
We fall of a cliff

Rocket boots are very easy to aim offensively once you get used to the “aboutface” key binding.