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I did´t say its perfect but it helps to survive + does some damage/preasure to the mesmer. I don´t fire the shield on sight, this would be weak. If he fires the zerker i eat it on his first run and will also take(dodge) his mirror blade, this doesnt kill me. I want both to go off near the mesmer with the boon of absorbing/cleansing “something” and protecting my non instant cast like knockdown. And i use blinding ashes. The burst mesmers often flee from me.
I have much more troubles fighting condi mesmer. I usually loose to that.
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I also always build non meta. Somthing i learn to handle well and fits my style.
I am not a speedruner or sPvP player but tempest is still hard to do a proper build.
And i am a game designer myself. I know it´s impossible to please all players, but it is possible to acieve much more build diversity and make tempest more accepted and work without breaking the balance.
In general i am fine with tempest. I can imagine a lot of diffrent concepts but this is what we get. A bit work on traits and rework rebound an tempest is OK. If it stays like now its sadly low tier.
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I have two strong utilities on the toolbar that can devastate a lot of classes.
cleansing flame + arcane shield.
I usually dive between the mesmer and clones, shield + flame.
If he shatters fine, the shield explodes (after absorbing the shatter) for hard damage and crit procs. (fire field might also be up).
If not the clones burn fast as he is burning.
Greetings
Wolf
A 600 range mainhand weapon would fit and be enough.
You don´t need all trait lines for using auras. Tempest + air, earth or water make for decent aura usage.
But for most aura builds you need to slot aura shouts, and one is not enough and thus replace your cantrips and there you have one main problem … At least i have serious problems replacing my utilities because each one has such a great impact that unsloting can kill me.
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While the overload concep itself is against current ele´s rotation it is more a number problem. Its the traits and rebound that need to be adressed.
I still hope that rebound is made a realy elite worth shout.
Tempest needs a self condi cleanse. Shouts, aura trait or pack a full cleanse(e.g. rebound could send your condis to enemies in 600 + spread light aura) into the elite.
Then adding baseline speed to tempest would be one of the keys to allow more tempest builds.
This won´t make tempest stronger then other traitlines but it would open more options to pick shouts for group support instead of sticking full cantrips.
even 5s fireballing is massiv. Its AOE and can kill a target alone. This is six shots for up to 3k on crit each. The crit chance would be 70-80% so at least 4 full hits. If not dodged this is about 15k damage. So and what will hapen is fire overload bursts for 15k?
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I run w/ the std arcana for the luv. If I see a condi, I just run away.
I also currently run arcana and avoid necros, because most are just deadly for me :-). Any condi or miniom master kills me.
I am build to kill power builds and usually die to condi. It works as designed …..
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another solution might be swap glyps and cantrips in the trait lines. So air affects cantrips and water glyphs. So cantrips will get a boon regarding the element used in and glyphs the regen + vigor. Then see what will happen.
Its not because we don´t like ele or GW2. Its tempest and low build diversity that sucks.
The question should be more: Will you buy HoT after reading this feedback.
Most intens writers here already preordered and now give feedback.
Also a lot of eles wanted somthing intresting and new. When water/cantrips + 4 elements swaping is what you did for years, tempest might be the drop to quit ele.
I run WvW roaming. And i know what you are talking about. I usually run with my friends PU mesmer in full zerker.
Well it will also synergise with current traits. Of course not all will make sense with all elements. It is more work than changing numbers but basically it should not be to hard since all mechanics are already there. It is one option that might make tempest diffrent and cool. Especially for manny casual and RPG players. The current tempest just has a bad feeling, bad play and bad numbers :-(.
I think the feeling would be great for a large part of the community. Maybe it won´t be top tier in sPvP but it will offer a diffrent ele. And i feel there are viable builds with it. I see at least three fire build types that will do heavy damage and share might + fire auras (which can also heal with tempest). And i see water with hardcore healing. Air with deadly bolting and earth super tanky. This feels like being an ele.
You loose 50% skills + versaility and get focused. Overcharges just have a cooldown and add greatly to the feeling. Balance should not be such an issue. You have only one element.
The easiest balancing will be the swap time. 6(5)s feel the right place but i did´t do exact math. I am usually very good at estimations doing game balance/design for 33 years ;-).
Greetings
Wolf
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For me tempest would be useable as aura/shout added if i can slot shouts instead of cantrips/air signet. Currently i depend on the three utilities so hard that i would get near unplayable if changed for shouts :-(. I would need speed, stunbreak and condi removal at minimum (and i have no viable other option) to swap. Overloads won´t bring a boon or compensate annything so tempest is useless for me. I won´t build a healer now just o utilize tempest.
I had an idea to be added to tempest for making it realy diffrent. I am shure a lot of people would love it. I would get wide, wet eyes if the do it but i don´t think so :-).
Oh yes. I also did run the ferocity on auras. Its nice but it did´t seem to have much impact for me.
I personaly like valkyr in power builds. I try to keep my crit at 50% so not to much valk.
Usualy i tend to do the armor in valk and trinkets in captain. The staff then is whatever feels comftable. Rune also depending on the build. Pack is one classic. My setup is zerk staff, valk armor, captain trinkets. Hoelbrak rune + leek soup, strength food but running arcane not water. With water i would run strengh/precision food and strength rune.
Backpack and earrings i usualy get soldiers with karma from temple.
My personal backline blaster:
The full automatic easy to obtain fire camping signet version.
The signet version realy works well for new(less time) players. Its PvE and WvW usable. Not max damage but very good/easy to handle.
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I personaly would be fine with 2k condi damage and have a few survival tricks :-).
When i stand 10s longer its much more pain then 15% more burn damage.
Yeha condi mesmer is the real threat. All other are usualy a long fight but i can´t beat a good condi mesmer :-/. For the burst mesmer i have two medicines:
first: don´t let them catch you of guard. A burst out of stealth in your back is usualy death. A bit like a zerk thief …
second: Stone heart. when feeling unease i run in earth. This swallows half the opening burst then fight back, i open with an area attack around me, blind an try to hit an interupt then beat on what ever jumped me…. Wise zerk builds cloak and disengage. Last glass thief was down after 5s. He cloked after realizing it hurts but got hit by cleansing flame before getting out of range … But i guess not manny ele are running fire/earth like me :-). I realy love it and still try which third trait line is best for me.
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Hmm a bit disturbing. Your setup has a bit more crit damage and power but lower crit chance + lower armor and health. But its close to what i suggested. I like the captains trinkets. They allow for more flexible armor/weapon swaping.
I don´t see ele spoiling elites. Elite shall offer something realy new to the class, that can be considerd as an option. I think even with current tempest concept this can be done.
Bear in mind that overload must not strenghten ele!
Expecting overload buffing ele must be disepointing.
If you charge overload and have it ready to fire within your rotation, it will strengthen eles and is a no go. It is desigend to disrup your rotation for a singe lage discarge and this is well balancable by numbers not to break ele as OP.
Take overload as it is. A flashy option to have fun ocasionaly. Somtimes balance doesn´t taste well.
Traits have to be reworked to offer the option replacing current spec lines. There is the problem. And rebound is just crap.
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Hi
Another idea that might help tempest out of its misery.
This might not please all elmentalists, but i can see a mass of players that will enjoy the feeling of:
Fire, air, water, earth elementalists!
The system:
When you take tempest, you completely loose your elemental swaping.
You gain a weapon swap instead. The first elemet you trait in will be your element.
The swap will be on 6s going down to 5s traited arcane. Swap of course triggers attunement effects.
Wooot: The feeing of high elementalist is there.
An this will be powerful enough. You loose versaility but gain tremedous focus.
Imagine:
Water: Staff – D/WH. THIS is healing support.
Fire: Staff – S/WH This is raw power + might sharing.
Air: Constant bolting with fresh air.
Earth: Massive defence. I can see a S/F – D/WH bleding build.
The overcharges complete the feeling of being a dedicated emementalist.
The only “Drawback” i see is this will lower the skill floor. It is not the 4 ele swaping elementalist annymore. But exactly this is a new playstyle!
It doesn´t feel to hard to implement an it synergizes with what tempest offers ….
Greetings
Wolf
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Äh i play scepter and spec fire ;-). Nerfing fire traitline is NOT the way to go, except the might on cantrips is to much.
Overcharges in general are OK. I see them as option for ocasional use but not as a benefit of tempest. So they are neutral for balancing value.
Most important are the traits (and rebound beeing horrible).
Nearlight did describe it well.
I failed to use tempest trying to bring something new to my ele.
For me shouts + traits (untraited overcharges don´t count a point) have to validly exchange arcane traitline with all boonsharing + extra damage and make shouts valid to substitute cantrips/arcane shield+healing. So i can go for added group support.
What is the minimum i need for that?
1.) Movement speed baseline (like cronomancer)
2.) Condi removal on shouts or auras. (at least self) (soldier rune is no option using that would cost me 25% damage)
This would allow me to use utility slots for shouts. I would give up about 10% damage and boonsharing + forfit two stun breakers (get at least the auto) for aura shouts.
Alone thinking of furry from swap lost makes me still unease …
Otherwise i am stuck and the traitline offer me nothing to be near arcane.
Substitution any other traitline would be an outright loss of 20-30% damage + either mean loss of some CC or totally loss of defence and scrap my ele. :-(
I also tried to do a complete new ele. Tempest seems only useful as healer.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJBIhdSfJ0gJWhJ4fJwHBW+AM33ad9vOcACAPwiw4E8FA-TJxGwAAOBASLD4b/BCPAAA
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Did´t know that there is this kind of bug. Thought it´s gone after removing lingering.
This realy has an impact and will adress the water OP self sustain which is good.
And when playing eles the damage was not the main problem it always is the eles superior self healing from water. The heavy burn is the topping that you taste :-).
I would go for a more balaced set. But its also personal taste.
It has less critical damage but won´t hit so much less hard in total.
For rune in this kind of build it is strengh for me.
If you feel more comftable with scolar, wyrm or eagle fine. Also ogre fits.
Celestial stats don´t seem being good here.
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If done proper there need to be a lot of changes. It doesnt look very dificult to do but there must be the will to do it….
And we have two themes here.
1.) Burning changes and as a result D/D overshooting
2.) Ele build diversity by water/cantrips beeing much beter then the rest…
For 1 not so much is needed. RoF 1 stack, remove might on cantrips an then look what happens.
Taldrens suggestions are not so bad. the direction is right. But i think it would overshoot and especialy not only nerf D/D which is seriously bad.
I won´t touch blinding ashes and if cleansing fire is less burn then ICD should be lower.
-now to touching sothing disruption. I would do that, but this has mayor impact on eles survivability and will also hit other builds. If this is done rework on non D/D has to be done. Like scepter and all other utilities. I think this is the reason we are stuck to water/cantrips. Its the easy way to focus on one line.
The pitty is i see it could be done and is not that hard :-(.
All eles fear that a nerf will also hit non D/D specs.
Hmm not shure if 3 Stacks on the wall would be to much but the direction is good.
Maybe 1 ring and 2 wall.
I agree that from the class design/feeling it´s more high damage-low sustain :-).
D/D plays more the other way ^^ + it burns hard.
And all nerves that hit non d/d builds would be crap…. and this usualy means nerfign mainhand dagger is the best way not to destroy other builds.
Even better would be pushing scepter ……
I would completly remove might stacks from Burning Fire.
And reduce ring of fire to 1 burn stack.
the only other thing that should be looked at is the mandatory water/cantrip thing. But touching this can destroy ele because there is not good build diversity beside water/cantrips. Skiping 80% of eles condi defence + loosing regeneration would be grim.
I personaly are not hit/hurt very often by spells like dragon breath or cone of cold. This is more L2P.
Yeah when it clashes i hit obsidian flesh an move to backline as ele or am dead …..
Another simple idea that would allow for mor spec options.
Sigil of Tempest:
Passiv: 33% Movement speed (Yes permaswiftness)
Active: 5s Haste
Such a sigil would give a large number of optinons by not needing to take runes, Air sigil or trait air for speed. For me this would allow for a full tempest spec even with current traits.
But maybe would end being used by most players like FSG now. Not shure about that.
I think we need the number of parcipicants to make it useful.
Its a bit like my S/F condi build. First they get wide eyes, then i see them coming back changing utilities waiting for me ^^.
I just can´t get water attunement realy work. I see the usage of area spaming against invisible oponents but since i am not water traited i leave it out of the rotation ….
But that might be a result in specing very unusual Fire/Air/Earth. I can absorb impact very well but have low long term endurance without regeneration. elemenatal swaps bring me no exta benefit unless i swap one of the traited. So water is out 90%.
Am i sucessful with my build? SoSo. But mostly because of low skill/training. I just see i get better an wining more with it. I like it and it works with weaknesses.
—-
What about such a SF build for tempest. It definitly looks intresting going full shouts.
Or with arcane:
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I personaly see overloads as an aditional utility not defining the class itself. So using it as finisher, escape or area denial tool maximum one per fight at the right moment.
also tempest seems better for staff and scepter as most say. It adds group support by usually forefiting personal survivability. and thus as a backline support staff user taking 2-3 shouts on you bar is very valid. For scepter its a bit hard, because scepter is usualy not so supportive. But for a support healing version S/WH would be my choice not D/WH. I will stay mid range just behind the “Frontline” and dish out heals, shouts + some area fire. I feel all the mainhand dagger for Tempest is misleading.
Try new builds. Enhancing D/D will fail, and it should.
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Well the 30% on crit and 5s ICD is pittyful. The trait makes a bit sense for the 20% duration…
I would lower the ICD to 2s. But this trait is mostly taken for the burn builds that are not “Meta” . The auto cleanse giving might to cantrips and doing 3 burn stacks overshines the three choices …. Another unneccessary cantrip love in there.
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Its marketing and knowing people will preorder for beta access. Playing devils advokat saying you payed for HoT not beta doesn´t help feeling better ;-).
And i see its not to hard to adress it without changing the concept. Its a matter of doing it. Shure traits have to be changed, but not with totaly new stuff and a new rune can tweak it for more build diversity. I see with just a fistfull of tweaks tempest can be made a nice adition. Only cruncing numbers alone will not lead to build diversity.
Shure if you don´t like the concept/warhorn itself sorry, wait for next elite.
Tempest should be made as way to spec out of water/cantrips to allow build diversity.
For that it must offer condi cleanse in a way water does not help.
Also condi builds are weak on ele (exept that d/d has strong burn)
I already sugestet apothekers and witch runes that supports tempest/condition ele whitout getting out of balance on any other class. (because its aura based).
Building tempest around apothekers gear seems to be a good option for the support role without geting out of hands annywhere.
Buffing D/D would be worse then the current lame tempest.
The tools of SF :-) I love them. You play definitly better them i do. But i train :-).
An arcane shield is great. I have it also on 8. Icebow surprised me a bit for roaming.
I said necro is a nemesis and condi mesmer not far behind :-). But its fun.
I just avoid necros. They are slower ^^.
And you survive condi bomb. You have two cleaners. The flame and in earth focus 4.
But you die on prolonged condi aplication very fast.
of course it has blinding ashes. Look at my version ;-)
Edited. The link did swalow some changes …
You can also say why bother with signet of earth. Lighning flash or arcane blast are good options.
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@Xillian: I do ;-) Dire/Rabid+rabid trinkets, rabid+rampager armor rabid S/F
But its no burn build annymore and it hits weak compared to full sinister. The Sceper is range 900 and this makes a significant tactical change.
With sinister your arcane hit much harder and the dagger mainhand makes a huge diffrence. you leap in with earth, fire arcane shield, bleed and burn, detonate shield + healing + fire cleansing flame. Oponent cleanses or dies. Its significant burst + condi using dagger.
Against a thief: you run in earth. He jumps you: shield, flame, earth 2 swap fire, breath him. Hes either good or dead. If he tries to hit you its his death. When your shield pops up he must disengage/cloak or is dead, because you pop burn on him, blinded him + absorb 3 hits resulting in a 2k explosion that burns more. Also he gets hurt for the second beating on the shield and if he gets you down anoter arcane shield will pop.
It kills glass thiefs if the don´t play very smart.
An beware of warrior with berserkers stance! This can kill you ^^. Eve nyour stone heart won´t save you. Only the arcane shield and dodge buy a few seconds.
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I like this version but i would definitly use final shielding. It fits much better.
Its extreme glassy. I know how condi ele plays an you die to other condi builds with that! Especially necro and condi mesmer will just squish you. Also a good thief is nearly instant death.
While baltazar rune is great for burn consider traveler and substitute air signet for cleansing flame.
Then replace the sigil of bursting with sigil of earth! More condi damage + it covers your burn from cleanse.
Then you can consider taking diamond skin to absorb the first condi burst or stone heart. You won´t fire earth signet much. Its for catching oponents and the crit chance for fire is nice but not essential because you have nearly 55% + ferocity without.
I even don´t run it. I use arcane shield as stunbreaker and trait for arcane, which gives ferocity on arcane skills and heal on 20s + burn on arcane!
Those two arcane shield can be devasting.
Significant more survivability and you won´t notice hitting less hard.
Necro will still win ;-). But this hits dam brutal.
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Go look at the rev forums. That’s how a forum between a dev and consumer base should be, and that’s for all the classes. The fact of the matter is they don’t give a kitten if we like tempest or not, so lets blow up this forum till they have to literally delete it or change their ways and work with us.
I did also read an thank the the def there per PM adding that each class should have a dedicated def talking to the comunity.
Theres no need to completly dam tempest. I can see the concept is valid (its a bit uninspired but useful).
But current numbers and traits make ele build with it worse and the result of that is quite clear.
As ele specialist try to make complete new builds with it. Maybe you find a useful one.
A solution will be:
Take overcharges aside. This can be balanced independent/later. If they are weak, it doesn´t matter in balancing and are just a flashy ad on.
Rework traits so the result is diffrent builds that can compete with current one´s and open a valid way to substitute cantrips.
Rework rebound.
When trait rework is done and alows diffrent specs, then go for overload numbers so the traits synergizing make sense opening more build options.
Then look at WH. Its mostly fine but a few numbers changed might be good.
At least thats what i would do ….
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Synergy is a keyword here. Tempest has near non with current builds and overloads are even agaisnt ele´s rotation.
But it must not be so bad. As we all hope is that its tweaked till release so it offes more build diversity instead of just being there for maybe a WvW healer build …
Last ele i fought cought me in his ring.
I simply didn´t move and continued firing (I have range 900).
He came back to breath — one side dodge through the ring. Not 1 stack burn got me.
The problem was more his incredible regneration + cleanse and disengage ability coming back full….
And thiefs usualy don´t get me with openning burst…. Its the 4+ attempt when my cooldowns are in bad shape, if he isn´t dead befor :-). The only class that constantly kills me is necro… But yeserday i got one down in a duel …
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Try it that way….
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJAodhcMosh9NwxB8RMIAYRAIUWEngwOoIIbgQwRE-TJRFABAcCAwZ/hkfAAWVGAA
It will hit hard but its glassy.
Dont underestimate the auras here:
You have: fire aura from swap + focus, shock aura from tempest defence + dagger.
You get ferocity + swiftness + protection from auras. You propably won´t last long but the match should be over fast.
But it has holes.
Without lighning flash its missing mobility.
No stunbreaker and stab can be hard.
Low HP and no regen. Kill or die
—
Variant not glass cannon. But reduced damage (low crit) with low mobility can mean oponent disengages much.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJAodhcMovhlNwxB8RMYAYRAIT2DncwMoHITgMQIA-TJRHwAw2fAZZABnAAAPAAA
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