Guild Wars 2

Well this is something you’ll get used to and learn to adapt to deal with.

1) Slower attack speeds look bad and are too easy to manage even with high damaging attacks.

2) The hp won’t wear you down (pers se) unless your team is not performing well to begin with. Usually your team will make a mistake or multiple ones down the line that leads to death.

3) I have not done every dungeon so this may be inaccurate but I don’t find support or tank builds to be particularily helpful in pve. A hybrid is not too bad but for dungeons I prefer just raw dps, and all support being in the form of increased damage buffs (might, fury, quickness, etc). However skills that can help to res or reflect projectiles I do not have a problem with, but I hate seeing staff guards that use the staff for more than swiftness or killing volitile blossoms.

To combat mobs individually: Now it depends on your class but snares are helpful, as are reflecting projectiles and blinds. For melee mobs if you cannot attack their back and if you don’t feel safe face tanking, kite them around with a ranged weapon and time your dodges.

If you feel mobs are dying too slow you might want to increase your dps.

Also make sure not to run backwards as it is slower than side stepping or running forward.

For war I use my GS and the way I use it is by: using skill 4 as a snare, since crippled mobs can be melee kited easier; you also got skill three which has great dps (better than 100b), but is an evade. Use it near a wall to make every hit land.

I also always use one range and one melee on war incase I get low on health.

Define bad in your own words and maybe I could answer this question.

I do like that its a pvp area, although I would prefer if the traps were before the jumping area instead of after.

This kinda reminds me of a pvp gamemode, FA anyone?

Use the Guild Wars 2 Discussion forum.

I don’t get it!

A lot of this seems biased and not based on actual gameplay (or based on specific experiences).

Now I don’t join cof speed run parties because I find gold to be almost pointless (before ascended gear ruined everything) and they aren’t fun. Everybody is uptight and boring. Although I don’t care what level, or class others are because I’m usually able to have fun just playing the game (and rarely ever fail a dungeon—it never happens). Speed (edit) doesn’t matter to me (opinion).

I don’t feel they hit too hard they just punish you (severely) for making mistakes.

Pretty much all melee mobs can be kited around with range. Also having increased speed or snares helps. It’s also good to have stun breakers and time your dodges.

If your party has a lot of trouble with them just pull mobs away to separate them and deal with them all individually.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

These are just my personal choices for what to bring. I’m eager to see what you all bring, and why you do it.

EDIT:
Totally forgot about my underwater pets! In general I swim with the shark, and my rainbow jellyfish.

Robert,

Don’t mean to be rude here but please, if you get the chance can you get someone to make a difference between the blue and rainbow jelly besides the name.

I don’t use my ranger at all anymore (not for assumed reasons) but before I stopped I only used Jag/Lynx. Water I used Rainbow and Blue Jellies.

Reasons: Cats have good dps and Jellyfish are awesome. Yep I’m a really adept ranger.

…To be viewed before obtaining the skillset.

I don’t understand what the intended method for learning what skills on your bar are when you only get to view them for 20 seconds.

Ex. -Guardians tomes, I still have no idea what one of the two does and it took me 4 months before I figured out one had quickness (I never used it because I figured it was useless). How did I figure it out? I would use it randomly whenever I felt like it to read what the skills did, everytime waiting on the cool down.

-Mesmer transformations, so one time I decided to do the obsidian sanctum JP. I made it all the way to the end but there was a group guarding the last section. Four to be exact. Knowing it was unlikely I could walk past them even as a thief, I decided to try and pick them off. Needless to say I got into a fight with a mesmer and was transformed into a moa. I began to panic, not knowing what any of the skills did I hit them randomly until I noticed skill 5. It had the shape of a wing and so I hit it thinking it was an escape skill.

It ran me straight off the cliff…

…but I lived.

Is this really the way to learn how to use these skills? Do or die situations where you hit buttons randomly because there isn’t enough time to read them.

This wouldn’t balance them, in fact this would cause significant damage and put them in last.

Firstly you should understand how the class works before trying to get it nerfed. Thiefs have initiative which is their cool down. Once it is all gone they can no longer spam attacks.

Thieves can use high dps burts which can down weaker players instantly but they are not the only ones.

I don’t feel thieves are OP anymore than guardians are (I hate guards :P).

@ penatbater Thats what my original comment was about. Instead of making the encounter harder they actually made it a lot easier because the boss spams its web shot from a distance it can’t reach the player from.

Although a lot of new players have trouble with it I think it should have its old web shot in addition to the new one that it will use if no players are in range.

This boss is too easy to control and after you get the mechanics down you can control its every move to negate all damage.

Please, while some players find the effects to cool there are some of us that are actually at a disavantage.

The effects are very distracting and overly flashy which is not something that is really necessary in pvp. In addition the unicorns are too big and make it harder to judge when to dodge. Also it is harder to understand what you are fighting since usually color and size is indicative of a spellcaster. Furthermore the distraction it creates is actually advantageous to the one using it, as we are not all the same and react to things differently.

Warhorn: More might is a good idea because one stack is useless. Swiftness is actually very useful. A lot of dungeon groups skip mobs so it helps there. Also if you’re faster than mobs are easier to kite. In addition I like to use it to run around the map in wvw.

I don’t really consider richochet to be a AoE nor splitblade. Yes giving axes a 10-20% buff would hurt the game. Axes are balanced based on the fact they can hit multiple targets, and if they are suddenly given a buff they could kill 3 people just as easily as a SB kills one. The SB would be obselete (which it might already be).

Pets actually have pretty good damage, although an issue with them is they can be easily kited around and are very weak without (also with) 30 points in BM.

Personally I play for fun so…

…I play w/e class I feel like and avoid speed runs (especially cof speed runs because it is too easy).

Now I’ve played 4 classes so far and they are definately all viable in all dungeons I’ve played. I can usually get good enough dps assuming I’m using appropriate traits and gear. I’d definately say my war currently has the highest dps and currently my thief is second.

Classes all have something to offer but what the group is composed of does matter.

Edit 2 (Changed entire post to “Great solo”): Great solo!

New AC: Spider queen — I will never understand the complaints. I infact believe A-Net made the boss worse because if you figure out its mechanics you will essentially never die while the rest of your team lies dead. I’ve soloed this boss in groups before because my team kept dying and the new mechanics make it a much easier solo. Any class can kill it without taking a hit using a ranged weapon more easily than most bosses and without terrain exploits.

New CM: The terrain exploits were not all fixed, not going into more detail than that.

New TA: Not sure what leaf bug but I generally find the difficulty of TA to be pretty good.

Your idea however doesn’t really work simply because leaving the old dungeons in would make it look as if the devs felt they put out an inferior product (which I don’t think they have) and to compensate have allowed you use the old one. Also the old one has bugs/exploits that make it easier to profit off of.

This would actually effect combat as you can effectively have 2 wolves in a row assuming the encounter lasts more than 30 seconds.

You would summon your first immediately then before you enter combat if the skill has a already fully recharged it can be used twice.

I don’t think this would matter much because the wolf is likely melee and melee is easy to kite if it’s AI

Black Wolf.7348:

most of the people who used to do AC before the update is now skipping the whole dungeon. says a lot about the update.

No it doesn’t.

Did all three paths the other day. One death the entire time and did kholer on all three paths. Not everyone was 80 btw.

This still says nothing about the update.

I checked the math for some odd reason (and without a calculator) and 5 runes of the mes + 1 ruby orb has 65 more power but 20 less precision and 10% less crit damage.

Now I don’t have a formula for how much damage power adds but I don’t think 65 power is more than 10% crit damage.

Also rune of the scholar indeed wins overall.

Sorry if this has been posted I can’t find it.

I noticed that my character can become stuck in certain poses/positions but it typically occurs infrequently.

Things that cause it. Porting to a wp while in the air (this usually only happens with terrain glitches), this will leave you stuck in midair and not falling. I unfortunately deleted my footage of this.

Using shadowstep causes this where my character no longer runs but instead slides across the floor in an attack position. I haven’t recorded this but can if it somehow matters.

The third variation that occurs is my character will be stuck to the floor and here’s the video.

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

WonderfulCT.6278:

Stooperdale.3560:

Two person content would be much more useful than seven.

I have to agree.

I feel the higher number of people the content is designed for the less fun fights would be. Currently no boss would be suitable for 5 people unless the upped the damage or possibly frequency of attacks which would still not be enought to kill them all.

World bosses would not work either (shatterer for example) as they are not very exciting to fight nor do they appear to focus their attention on you. Which raises another problem. A boss cannot focus on 7 people and in order to compensate would need to be given rediculous mechanics.

Now if the addittional two players were to be used for some type or alterate mechanic I can’t see what the point of having them would be at all would be. If the 7 person dungeon has frequent situations where the players are split up they might as well enter in smaller groups.

Sorry I just can’t see what higher number groups would accomplish and this is coming from a GW1 player.

Could do something like they did with FoW and UW, larger size party allows for more splits and such. Personally I think larger parties, given properly implementation could be quite cool. It’s always fun to have content that really tests players ability to theory craft.

If you are refering to speed clears, they were (likely) and unexpected result of player innovation and not the intended method of clearing the content. The only quests I remember that appear to intend for the group to split are gift of griffons and the four horsemen.

Now splitting up could occur but why be in a group at all if you are splitting? The only purpose it served was for the terras if they die or telling the group to shut up. Terras did not need to be a part of the group at all and typically don’t need to say much. When people split there are often situations where they die and cannot be resurrected (or rather not because you’re kitten ).

Now if you are referring to group splits (in even numbers or never having someone solo) that could work but I’d have to see it in action before I’m in favor of it.

Stooperdale.3560:

Two person content would be much more useful than seven.

I have to agree.

I feel the higher number of people the content is designed for the less fun fights would be. Currently no boss would be suitable for 7 people unless the upped the damage or possibly frequency of attacks which would still not be enought to kill them all.

World bosses would not work either (shatterer for example) as they are not very exciting to fight nor do they appear to focus their attention on you. Which raises another problem. A boss cannot focus on 7 people and in order to compensate would need to be given rediculous mechanics.

Now if the addittional two players were to be used for some type or alterate mechanic I can’t see what the point of having them would be at all would be. If the 7 person dungeon has frequent situations where the players are split up they might as well enter in smaller groups.

Sorry I just can’t see what higher number groups would accomplish and this is coming from a GW1 player.

This is the best thread ever.

I’ve never tried teamkilling in GW but do it all the time in fps games now I gotta try it XD.

Something I’ve done unitentionally is at jade maw pick up a crystal when someone with the scull is trying to.

How does this keep happening?

People keep making threads about dungeon content being too hard or impossible, but they never seem to just ask for help.

If you get stuck somewhere or keep wiping on the same content just ask, whether it is in a group or on the forum I’m sure someone will tell you how to succeed without giving up or needing to start a thread asking for it to be easier.

There are cases where content is bugged and this is also where communication can really help you with troubleshooting.

Not to say everyone is helpful or polite but complaints based on first time experiences that failed are not very convincing arguments.

The dervish cannot make a return, the only thing that really could is the scythe. The dervish’s enchants and skills called upon the power of the gods which out of the playable races only the humans seem to worship. Also the humans already use powers from the gods so it’s probably as close as you will get.

The paragon was already discussed by Helrith so I won’t mention that.

Therefore it’d make more sense to bring back the scythe and also spear as the classes that used them have been built into other parts of the game.

Levistis.8356:

Also, any dev response on AC? You guys aren’t going to tone it down, right?

They responded to this (edit: a while back) when people initially complained:

All new stuff in dungeons is going to be hard for the first few days. We see it all the time with new content – people fail and get knocked down when they aren’t used to that sort of thing, and they claim it is too difficult.
Give it a week or so for everyone to develop strategies, learn encounters, and build fundamentals, and they will claim it is too easy. Trust me when I say this, the numbers are punishing (but less than they were before), but knowing the mechanics will greatly mitigate the danger. -Robert Hrouda

This is why I don’t get why you guys even did this. People made empty complaints about first time experiences that failed and people responded with things other than explanations on how to conquer the challenges.

It’s great that you guys took the time to do this don’t get me wrong though.

Greenthumb Legacy.6549:

I’d like to see Dungeon Vanquish implemented. Upon completion upscaled rewards on top of normal rewards. Skip content if you wish or VQ. Dungeon Vanquisher Title. Increased gold/tokens. Post mentioned upcomming dungeon dificulty revamp(increase) of course.

No one enjoyed vanquishing at all, ever.

If they wanted people to kill trash they should just block the exit until they are dead.

Ex. For instance in TA if a group wanted to do the upper path. They first would have to kill the dogs to open a door. Next the would have to kill the 4 tree men to open the next door. Wurms are already madatory as are the spiders. Next every enemy on the path to boss would need to be killed.

After killing the boss the next group enemies would need to be killed before you can jump off the cliff. The group of enemies before the nightmare tree need to be killed, and just for fun the tree can move now (just want this changed to make the boss challenging).

If they wanted people to kill trash thats all they have to do is block the exit. I think it’s safe to say a-net knows this and that they won’t force players to kill enemies who don’t even drop anything.

hmmmmm I rarely come across a boss not easily exploited or soloable, but I’d probs go for lupi too. Ive only done one path in arah and it was the one with him. Also we succeeded (in completing the path) but fighting lupi was definately challenging and engaging unlike a lot of the other bosses (especially the nightmare tree)

Honorable mention bloodly victoria for being the first boss I had to exploit to beat solo(after they fixed the rock exploit btw).

Brennus.1435:

I saw this coming. People too upset because it’s impossible to do a level 35 run of explorable. Then someone comes along and shows it’s not impossible. The same people are still upset anyway. Some people want things to be horrible. They are trying to nitpick every possible place in this great run so they can feel better or something.

Would you have it any other way?

NotOneToRidicule.2340:

My guild just took 4 lvl 80’s and a lvl 63 into AC explorer path 1 and could not get past the Champion Spider (mostly because of the little spiders)…after running this dungeon many, many times. Wait, before you say we’re built wrong…we’re all accomplished in PVE (with 100% world completion, daily farming in Orr, and able to hold our own in WvW).

IMO, it has become way too hard since the latest patch on February 26th. I feel that this game is becoming too frustrating. Since there are other options in the MMO world, I’m thinking of branching out and trying others because of this. Is anyone else feeling as frustrated as I am?

I don’t understand why everyone has sooooooo much trouble with the spider/spiders. I can usually take them all out by myself dying only 0-2 times.

I have a video here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmkhyONc7m8
First of all this was done in one take so there are some fails/destroying of burrow that I decided not to omit. Also go to 5 minutes in for spider solo.

Wethospu (hope I got his name right) has posted a much better melee solo of the spiders which you can also check it as its a much better example but I don’t have the link.

Edit: Here is a link to a thread where some help with the spider was posted incase anyone is interested.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Any-advice-for-AC-spider-boss/first#post1563929

Maestro.5376:

WonderfulCT.6278:

I still don’t get why you did this, but I’m sure it was fun so I can’t really say it was a waste.

Because if you look at the first page of the Dungeon subform, 30% of the threads are about how the new AC is too hard and it’s impossible for a group of level 35 players to do now.

They don’t back up their claims with anything so you could have just ignored them.

I still don’t get why you did this, but I’m sure it was fun so I can’t really say it was a waste.

The only encounter in ac I feel is any harder is ghost eater (mainly because it has aoe now), the rest I actually feel are easier especially the spider.

I keep trying to ignore new ac threads but I just can’t :P

lol now I wanna come too bad I don’t have an alt at 35. The real issue is if troll spawns is it better to pull it to kholer or kill it separate : P

I suggest you all go glass cannon style just to keep the challenge going : O

@Croatoan there are solo videos showing how the spider can easily be beaten. I myself made one for fun. I don’t get where your problems with the spider stem from and shake it off works fine for the boss as usually you only need to remove poision.

I honestly don’t get what part of the dungeon is so hard now.

I don’t have any methods that are 100% but I’ve used them in teams and they work.

For burrows have 1 or 2 people wait around hodgins and kite mobs around while pulling any mobs that go towards him away. The rest of the members should do the burrows and take out the one that spawns directly in front of hodgins last. Also don’t run over hodgins (go around) or fight over hodgins. It is not a good idea to bring gravelings on or near him. The glitch where you go through the wall happens all the time. It actually has happened to me twice in a run before.

For path 2 you can pull the mobs to their maximum agro range where they will begin running back. All melee should breakoff but ranged enemies can be kept at this range. Try to break off most of the enemies to avoid being overwhelmed. I’ve done this in a group before and it does work.

Before GW2 charr had no visible females and the only race I remember that even had females were harpies (other than humans).

I still have yet to see a female centaur but there were undead ones in GW1 so I don’t think it’s that there isn’t females just whether or not they are seen is the problem.

Croatoan.8426:

lcpdragonslayer.7895:

@Croatoan you should have told them that you have never run AC before then and said you needed guidance. You got on your glass cannon warrior and said you have it specced for CoF, not AC. Everyone would assume you know the AC mechanics since you haven’t specced for it. Why then would anyone explain to you how AC works if you clearly know how to run AC?

Also, you’ve just not been in the right groups. I’ve acted as a tour guide for over 100 parties for AC, CM, TA, CoF and FotM. Just because you’ve always ended up in noncommunicative PuGs doesn’t mean that they don’t exist.

I know the old AC and have ran the new AC a few times. I know how to run it and the whole point of me telling them I was on my Glass Cannon war was to express the fact that I was basically telling them I wasn’t going to be able to tank or have any survival what so ever which btw is terrible for the new AC. And I am happy there are people like you out there I wish I could have ever found a group that was willing to teach me how to run it but I learned from personal experince. First time I ran the new AC and I did tell them I never ran it before,the giant spider instant ganked me because I didn’t know they buffed that dang web attack and nobody bothered to tell me about it.

What proof do you have that glass cannons are worse in AC? They kill breeders almost instantly, spider boss has very limited attacks capable of hitting the player, the scavengers don’t insta-kill anymore. Ghost eater has a short window for attacking, Colossus will likely kill players if they run out of things to stop the rocks with so killing it fast helps.

The web attack is not buffed its actually worse because it uses it even though its not in range. It’s a downgrade imo.

I would be lying if I said I never die or go down, in fact I do go down more than on my alts but the dps more than makes up for it, and in most encounters I will not go down more than my teammates. Also sometimes less.

I’ve ran this dungeon quite a bit but I’ve never seen a group that tried to do anything but range it down so as far as I can tell thats the easiest method. I don’t really find this boss in any of the three forms to be very exciting. The other two can be done while taking very little to no damage.

Croatoan.8426:

Ok to all you New AC lovers. I just ran AC with a random group. I decided I was going to do whatever they wanted/there strat no arguement no fuss. After a few mins of looking I found the group I was looking for they said get off your 39 and on a 80 or KICK. I said ok and got on my War that was spec’d for CoF not AC and I said that,they didn’t care. Skipped the borrows with 2 of them and 2 stayed behind at the starter burow. They whipped twice trying to kill it instead of skipping. “I was laughing”. Everyone died on spider queen in about 20 secs. So rather than have 3 wars,1 guard,and a ele they had 4 glass cannon wars and a ele. My guardian would have been much better suited for that dungeon/group because that is what I have him spec’d for to boon and keep the team alive, my warrior on the other hand is designed for a CoF p1 4 wars and 1 mes build to burn bosses down as fast as possible . Needless to say I felt no reason to stay in the group or give any effort after the first whipe I knew it was a fail team because nobody even tried helping the one nub we had that was screaming he didn’t know what to do. I felt bad and wanted to help him but I was there soley as a follower and didnt want to take the role as a leader. This is the type of stuff the new AC is inspiring and you are all defending it??

This post doesn’t make much sense. You intentionally found a group full of people you knew were not very good (or as good as you feel you are which seems to be very considering that in your post you imply that you find the dungeon content easy), then next you intentionally do not take a leadership role even though you appear to be the most experienced. Next you do not inform your team that they should skip burrows.

I myself have had a team wipe on the spider queen and proceeded to solo it myself (this was on my glass cannon war which btw I’ve done all 3 paths on and never failed yet). When I have a team where I know some people do not know what to do if I can I help them. A lot of groups do not talk which is ok but communication can be an essential part of dungeoneering. If you had intended not to help your team at all from the start do them a favour by not joining it so they can get someone who can.

Now the new dungeon can be more difficult at times but through communication and perseverence I have managed to finish all my runs and each path even before I knew what the changes were, also my teammates would inform me of the boss changes before we started so we all had an equal chance of helping to win.

Maybe I am wrong about what I said and this is something different. If it is I apologize and am not sure what’s happening in your situations.

It’s not a bug.

If the instance starter leaves the dungeon or party the rest of the party will be kicked.

There are multiple threads/complaints about this already.

Things to note for the future: don’t kick the person who started the instance. Start it yourself for insurance and use the search function to check for similar complaints.

Tbh I’ve just been ignoring all the new ac threads because they have no basis for their complaints.

I’ve done AC before and after the patch, although I have been playing since release and not enough has changed for me to consider it overall harder.

A lot of the lag issues that occured after the patch have been mended so that is no excuse imo.

The spider is possibly easier and in a group the baby spiders can still be handled no problem. The scavengers were made a lot easier. The breeders are now like a cold knife through hot butter. The encounter after the spider is easier. Kholer seems easier to me I think they might have reduced his damage.

Hodgins still just stands there trying to open the door when the graveling mounds spawn.

The only encounters that I consider to be any different is ghost eater and colossus rumblus. Colossus just (likely) requires certain methods (rupts and stability) which he previously did not, although he himself is a pushover now. Now he is not necessarily more difficult he just (likely) requires a certain method to win. This may require new groups to problem solve and have a fuller knowledge of game mechanics but like the OP said it is likely that a group would have at least a lvl 80.

Ghost eater is just not friendly to players with lifesteal (thats me) since the majority of the time hes invulnerable, but overall its not like hes really difficult. Also detha still sucks.

Howling King is too easy but I hear hes not functioning correctly so w/e.

I have no idea what’s so different now that people are unable to play the dungeon. The only thing that might have been effected is swapping to alts if players find the boss encounters more difficult.

This disscussion has been done to death just to let you know, no offense though.

Sword has more dps but pvp oriented auto attack.

I don’t know if it’s well know but it’s been brough up a few times on the forums. TBH if swoop is intended to do less damage I don’t know why they can’t just edit it to say so but I don’t have much programming knowledge.

I haven’t even tried to participate in this new content because the karka one was so buggy I just gave up on new stuff.

From what I gather this is not a plot hole as I’ve yet to see a full plot. Two groups working together spawning portals around doesn’t seem like it’s to further an end.

On the topic of portals is the alliance limited in where they can teleport to, because I wonder why they don’t just put a portal in the black citadel’s ammo room and just throw some fire in or something. There has to be something keeping them out right?

Also I see no reason why the flame legion can’t work with others, while fanatical they always trying to futher their goals or keep followers under their control. For all I know the flame legion could have the upper hand.

However if this alliance is on even ground I don’t understand what the dredge want that they need the flame legion for. They can tunnel everywhere I don’t get why they don’t just dig a giant chasm under hoelbrak or something and sink it. What do they want on the surface, they’re moles!

I don’t get whats keeping both these groups from doing whatever they want.

I don’t like the sword in pve at all. The entire rooting (issue) could be removed and still have players who could use the weapon. In pvp it can help you stick to your enemy like glue (which can be done regardless) but in pve has no purpose. The only reason to use it is because it has better dps than the GS but I’d prefer a pve version with the same skills just no rooting.

Taking off auto attack shouldn’t be necessary unless the rooting is simply there to nerf the sword in pve and make you conciously do less damage with it.

All in all it seems to have been designed with pvp in mind.

Erukk.1408:

Lore Strength =/= Gameplay Strength

All of it gets dumbed down to fit in the constraints of the gameplay mechanics, and to make the fights actually fair. The Elder Gods could probably kill just about anyone, with a breathe in their general direction.

The same goes for the norn’s physical strength, and Destiny’s Edge’s collective strength as a group.

Yes, in some ways it does.

It’s not as if the players were allowed to fight Zhaitan using their own weapons: first he was shot and suffered significant damage during a cutscene (not gameplay), next he was damaged by cannons shot by the players. No damage was done directly by the players and as such in this case it would be quite fair to consider what happened “lore strength”. Lore and gameplay intersect in a lot of ways and even though through text something can be made much more extravagent and intricate, story experienced through gameplay is still part of the story.

Certain scenarios are fair to not be considered the same I will not deny this but if somebody was looking simply for what happened to Zhaitan; he was shot down by the pact, and thats what occurs in the gameplay.

On a related note I have no idea how strong Destiny’s edge is supposed to be compared to player but I would assume about the same level.

So dragons are supposed to be a something like an unstoppable force of nature and destroyers of all. I just find it odd that the dragons themselves are not such powerhouses in open combat.

Now I haven’t read destiny’s edge (or edge of destiny either) but I find it inconceiveable that a group of six (and a wolf) could almost take down a dragon and would likely have if not for some guy dying, yeah I’m blaming Snaff.

Furthermore one norn punched out Jormags tooth by himself which also shows that the dragons are not these invulnerable killing machines.

I know Zhaitan’s death should have been an obvious indication of this but the way he died makes me feel like he might just return (I also don’t really think something with powers of re-animation shouldn’t be able to re-animate its self but that’s just me).

Now the dragons are likely afraid of the other races—as shown by Zhaitan’s howls in fear (as noted by trending trahearne)—or Zhaitan was one of the weaker dragons, in combat anyways.

With this in mind if the races could somehow sneak a group of five to ten of the best fighters in Tyria (and some cannons for assisstance) they could probably assassinate most of the dragons.

Edit: something I forgot to mention although I was thinking of it at the time is that I have heard that the dragons may have been holding back or something along those lines, however I don’t think that it works in a dbz fashion where they simply hold back their full strength in combat until they feel like going all out.