Guild Wars 2

Insane Pancakez.9182:

Hey, BS, that Vagi Sil name suits you guys well, I’ve never seen someone run away so fast. Thanks for the bags right outside of your spawn, until you finally started killing some of us off, I have to give you guys credit, once you died you respawned and got back in the fight really fast! You guys have a lot to work on though, if you don’t have somewhere to run away you kind of blow up pretty fast =/ that’s always boring.

Sorry for the GoM guys that came behind us while we were fighting Basic Skills (BS) I think that’s their guild name? Not sure. But we had to kill you off, as you could’ve interfered with our farming of ET.

I’m not even quite sure where to start or how to respond to this.

Are we supposed to stand still and die when we are outnumbered?

Not many of us died outside spawn, also as a side note you don’t need to tell us what happened on the forums. We were there (we know the truth).

You guys got wiped with superior numbers, I’m not sure what else there is to say. Well I guess I can say it happened twice.

Please stop pouring your gasoline as you put it, since the only fire burning is the one inside you.

style.6173:

As to the original post. I tried the spec in WvW, but still think that a 5/0/30/15/20 set up works better FOR ME. Even though the spec isn’t ideal for me, I respect that you posted it here.

I changed to that spec recently too and it’s currently my favourite P/D build. My old build only had 5 points in a different spot though.

Kabuki.9103:

First rule in thief club is: i before e except after c

There are too many exceptions for me to agree with teaching people that, it’s like saying you can’t start a sentence with because.

Calysto.7469:

What’s with all the elitest tools that come on here being kittenes instead of being helpful?

People get tired of gameplay videos showing random wins without any purpose. We’ve played the game. We don’t want things we do on the reg, we want things we haven’t done.

Why not both?

I do both you should too.

Thief is a lot easier to avoid focused by a ton of guys but has worse CC.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

If you make a video winning fighting against the following, I’d be your biggest fan;
1) SB + S/D Ranger
2) Scepter/Focus + Hammer Guardian
3) Mace/Shield + GS Warrior
4) D/P + SB Thief
5) Staff + Sword/Focus Mesmer
6) D/D Elementalist

And if you want to make relevant videos, you should transfer server to either one of the top 4. It will also make you a better player after playing against those servers.

All of these (except D/P thief) can be easily beaten 1v1 by a P/D thief :/

They could just change it to activate when stunned instead so you can’t attack when it activates.

What server you on? I’m wondering if you’re that thief I keep running into.

Xom.9264:

Well I will probably just get the celestrial ascended items do the real stats build focus with armor and weapons they are easy to get with badges or karma.

Thanks for the responses.

Xom NOOOOOOOOOOOO don’t do it!

Sceinna.3561:

The infamous D/P build Yishis currently plays was inspired by my build (check out his latest video and read the description, he credited me for it ;P).

Inspiring a D/P build is an achievement?

Also P/D kills are not an achievement either. Beating a P/D build solo is an achievement.

Call me cynical but I’ve seen too many bad D/P thieves around (all of them) to be happy that you inspired someone who inspired people to play D/P.

I’ve played P/D for a bit and it’s pretty good. You can be darn near unkillable but I definately would not call it the best build for thieves.

It kills things too slow unless you put a high amount of points into deadly arts. I’d say that any raw damage thief build is more effective simply based on time.

Also you can only use one on swap sigil at a time as they share cooldowns. In addition you only really need 2 weapons and 2 sigils.

You also should get rid of SR in favor of caltrops or a venom, the skill is worthless if you’re solo roaming since you can easily get away. You can also drop hide in shadows for withdraw since you have shadow’s embrace (optional). Personally I find thieves guild worthless at all times, but daggerstorm has its uses.

Edit: removed a paragraph.

I beat a war and guard 2v1 (and later a guard and ranger 2v1), does that mean both of these classes suck and engineers are OP?

No it doesn’t.

Jorun is right about the condition builds (at least P/D anyways) since you are pretty much impossible to kill all that really happens is a stalemate.

As a sidenote, all D/P thieves suck.

Another week, another fight night I can’t go to.

Well thanks for the fights guys I’ll see you around, maybe.

Well first you should know that D/P thieves suck so fighting them is a waste of your time.

They will just run as soon as they get low and hang around in stealth until they get a chance to hit you while distracted.

Just get be able to survive their BV combo burst (or just dodge it) and you can usually get them low easily, then hopefully down them before they run.

I can’t really teach you how to play guard since I don’t play mine but you shouldn’t be losing to D/P thieves in 1v1 situations.

Craig.2403:

@Berk
You want PAXA to fight you 1v1 when they have told people countless times that they’re not built for 1v1?
Anyways, the problem with your post about siege is that the larger group ALWAYS has more siege. So, you see, while this small group builds 1 or 2 arrow carts (because that’s all they have supply to build), the zerg is quickly building 10… and how does this help the small group? You make it sound like only the small group gets siege, which is clearly wrong.
Next, PAXA and KoM are specific guilds that are coordinated and built to effectively work together. Put PAXA vs Red Guard and what would happen? PAXA would get destroyed. Why? Because Red Guard has the same organization PAXA does, but with more people, thus they will come out on top. Equal skill and unequal numbers should mean that the bigger numbers wins, which is correct in this case. However, when you put PAXA vs a pug zerg of more than 30 people, PAXA will still lose (unless the zerg is utterly terrible) even though PAXA clearly has better skill and organization. THIS SHOULD NOT BE THE CASE!!! This is the point we are trying to get people to see. There is an imbalance in this game between player skill and group size that makes group size much more meaningful than player skill.
And yes, I’ve had 3 people kill a 25 man zerg before without siege just by using a series of choke points and great coordination against a pug zerg with no organization. Take into account, however, that this was not an open field fight, which is what we are discussing here.
And, to drive the point home more: I went to the WvW general discussion forums to see what was there regariding this topic, and what do I see? First post: “Idea for encouraging small group play.” Hmmm, sound familiar? Then, curios, I check it out. The main criticism: “better idea: remove downed state and aoe cap.” Hmmm, this is getting freaky, it’s almost the exact arguments we are putting up, coming from completely different people, I wonder if it’s cause they’re legitimate.
P.S. it’s not the amazing small man groups keeping other small man groups away. It’s the lack of reward, extremely high skill cap required to be successful against larger numbers, and lack of other small groups that make people run away from it. When TFI first started to get our group together, we asked for a 5v5 against PAXA to see how far we had to go. The complete and total clobbering they gave us didn’t make us give up, it only made us realize how far we had to go before we could truly call ourselves a party (which we still don’t yet). In fact, it had the opposite effect as what you described: it made us work harder. And you can’t say that these are just people who like a challenge, because about half of our group are more pve focussed than WvW focused, which as you know, is about as far from a challenge as you can get.

Can you please proof read your text to make it logical. Please and thanks. I’m not going to go into detail I’m too confused as to whether or not it would be of any benefit :S

I don’t get what you’re going for.

I guess your dps is good for your defensive stats but I can’t imagine you being hard to kill before being killed. I think you should probably just try upping your dps unless you plan to play in groups.

Also change your utilities and take a new pic without cons.

My priority varies as I haven’t had enough encounters with each profession.

I’d say: uplevels, rangers, necros, eles, thieves, wars, engies, mesmers, then guards. This list is based on how fast and easily I find professions go down.

Edit: changed engineers and mesmers.

Gonna have to agree with Surbrus, I don’t see how offhand sword makes any sense as an option for thieves since all other mainhand weapons other than sword are all smaller.

Get a minor sigil of accuracy and kill one npc.

I am an avid WvW player and spend almost all my time in game playing WvW, however sometimes a change of pace is nice and I will play sPvP for a bit.

In pve and WvW revealed last 3 seconds but in sPvP it last 4 seconds.

I’m not sure how many people frequently play both but for me personally it is annoying to adapt to. Plus I have trouble understanding why this is still different.

I’m not looking for any QQ about how it sucks but rather peoples insight and rationale as to why this is kept as it is. Also I wonder if at a point you can just get used to playing the two with separate timings or if I should try a different build. Lastly I’m interested in how things were before the change: if there was thieves just running around insta-ganking or something.

I’m honestly thinking about it since I pretty much only solo roam anyway :P

WereDragon.6083:

Surbrus.6942:

TheGuy.3568:

However, no bs a good thief is not going to get killed by you and at best vs some one who has played for the class for a while you going to push a draw.

If by “good thief” you mean one that is going to run away and never bother you again, then yes they aren’t going to die. I eat thieves for breakfast on my necro, with enough immobilizes, chills, cripple, pull, fears that if they aren’t the least bit skittish and frightened then they are as good as dead in most cases.

Basically the answer to any “thieves are OP” statement is “L2P and get some better gear you zerker noob”.

Screenshot or it didn’t happen.

Screenshot what? Are you emplying killing thieves is difficult?

Believe him or not it doesn’t matter, there are a lot of thieves out there that are extremely easy to kill.

Radmage.3741:

I can’t handle them, they blind, stealth have a sizable amount of dodge abilities and can spam spells that deal a pretty huge amount of damage and they regen a lot of HP from being in stealth. I there any way to deal with them as a necro?

It depends on what build you’re facing.

Generally if you don’t stand there when they cloak you have a better chance. Keep moving or better yet move away from where the cloaked. I hear you can also walk into their smoke but I don’t recommend it. If you can just waste their initiative you have a better chance. Also you can sometimes kill them whilst running away. A lot of thieves like to chase, and just slowly conditioning them down is extremly easy when they waste their initiative chasing you. Frequent movement is essential unless you have high defensive capabilities or better damage. Use snares and CC skills frequently.

Also having high toughness is very helpful.

Thieves very often overextend which makes it easy to turn the tables on them.

The necros I have most trouble with on my thief are ones that know: how to keep distance, where and when to place their marks, how to avoid BSs, how to achieve high condition damage, how to use CC and snares, and don’t die in one hit. Plus good self heals never hurt.

You can definately run a condition build as opposed to a direct damage build. I think that direct damage builds are more effective but condition builds provide much higher surivability.

Lately I’ve been running a P/D build and it performs pretty well. I rarely ever die and never die to a single person. The condition damage is definately lower than my engineers because it lacks burning and confusion, but when you get up to 20+ bleeds it’s still pretty good.

D/P builds are good I suppose but I’ve yet to see one good enough to make me a believer.

I had an explanation written but I hate proof reading so I’m redoing it and making it simpler.

I recommend engineer. Thieves suck unless you make them good. Engineers are good unless you make them suck.

You’ll get used to thieves if you play them long enough.

Both can hold their own but engineers can do it better imo.

If you plan to play a dagger mainhand build on thief plan on being very easy to kill.

Thieves have better dps but less support, and CC skills.

I’m biased but you know what, when thieves randomly throw down SR and get other thieves revealed it really kitten es me off. Stop throwing down SR! Use blinding power!

I was going to post a serious response but then I got the joke.

Seriously though, L2P this entire post is too far exaggerated to be taken seriously.

They are very easy to aim and I do it all the time without a mouse designed for higher sensitivity. I honestly learned to use withdraw the day I started using it.

Ex.

Not quickest withdraws in the world but I can do it well enough to escape when needed.

Zephyric Reaper.3049:

Since d/p is the fotm for wvw or at least for some time now, it’s becoming very common to find this set while playing it myself.
I can tell you, it’s the most BORING duel EVER.
Usually, I don’t abuse of stealth and apply a lot of pressure on the enemy using shadowstep and well timed dodges to mitigate damage. However, against other d/p’s, they abuse so much of stealth it becomes a game of who can hold perma stealth longer. It’s boring, VERY boring. And if you don’t play it, you might lose because less might stacks, less regen, ect. In the end, neither wins, but it takes a LONG while until one figures it out.
As a thief, a d/p is the least I want to fight as a d/p. It feels so cheesy when used against you xD

Go D/D problem solved.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

WonderfulCT.6278:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Because against a good player/team, you’re going to be squashed like a tiny insignificant bug on a Mesmer’s carpet.

Try it in tPvP against a premade.

I’ve been playing it for a bit and the worst that really happens is a stalemate (or a group comes along and maybe CCs you to death). Also I’m mostly refering to WvW as I don’t play s/tPvP (much). Furthermore I can’t really see how going agaisnt a premade is a good way to judge one build.

Because in WvW, a stalemate means you just run away. Which is actually a loss. Like I said, against a good player, you’re going to have to run away. Try it in tPvP, you’ll see how bad it really is. Fighting a premade is a very good way to judge a build, because you’re stressing it under intense conditions. Any good build would be able to last/significantly aid your team, such as my Necro wellmancer builds, or Mesmer shatters. I have used P/D, P/P, S/P in every possible build combination in high level tPvP, and every single time I get squashed. It’s simply not good.

I’m sorry but I can’t see why someone would even try P/D or P/P in tPvP. P/P has no survivability and P/D builds generally rely on stealth. You cannot cap or hold points with stealth so you’d end up being more focused on more supportive roles with dps thats probably too low. You shouldn’t really be dying unless playing poorly but you can’t do anything useful. Hence why going against a premade is not always the best way to judge a build, you should know beforehand if you can do anything useful. After you decide you can, you can test it if you like to see how it performs.

The stalemate I’m refering to in WvW is when you encounter someone who outheals your damage, with you outhealing them too. It’s not really running away more like getting bored of making no progress and leaving.

WvW is much different from tPvP and like I said I wasn’t really refering to that anyways since I don’t play it.

Edit: Thanks for the feedback, I’ll be sure to give it a try to see how bad it is there.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Because against a good player/team, you’re going to be squashed like a tiny insignificant bug on a Mesmer’s carpet.

Try it in tPvP against a premade.

I’ve been playing it for a bit and the worst that really happens is a stalemate (or a group comes along and maybe CCs you to death). Also I’m mostly refering to WvW as I don’t play s/tPvP (much). Furthermore I can’t really see how going agaisnt a premade is a good way to judge one build.

Lately I’ve been kinda bored with my engie build so I made a similar one on my thief for fun. It kinda worked out possibly too well and now I have two characters with tanky condition builds (not enough variation).

Well I’m wondering why more people don’t run P/D builds as they are tanky pretty fun and very easy to troll with. The dps isn’t too bad if you can get high bleed stacks on someone. Example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRjJZjIwnOo

Is there something I don’t know about P/D or do people just prefer dagger builds because of their raw damage. Also if someone has a good P/D build they’d like to share they’d be welcome to.

Also I know there are people who use P/D I just only remember encountering 1 person in wvw.

Re-Edit: Removed my build to keep it a partial secret

wish.1027:

All you really did was move a bit of the effective power to effective defense. Switch your foods to the proper ones, min/max your precision to hit a good number, and remove the random 5% crit chance youre giving yourself from the second sigil to see for yourself.

No I did not only move effective power to effective defense, also I’m not sure if you’re refering to my previous build or your build. I tried to keep my build as close to yours in EF and EH but since the EH was really close I just threw the excess in EP. “Switch your foods to proper ones.” I have no idea what you mean by this. Do you not consider butternut squash soup or truffle steak to be proper foods?

WonderfulCT.6278:

You could do this same thing to your build and get superior stats so why am I bringing this up? ‘Cause you didn’t.

wish.1027:

Superior paper stats for autoattacking arent always the best thing in the world, I proved this in the discussion about about omnom ghosts vs other foods. This site also doesnt take bloodlust stacks into account, which I did when I showed why oils are better than stones, and what you have to do to reach the point where oils become better (remove excess precision) Youre also sitting under 50% crit chance on this build.

Which stat is paper and what do you mean by paper? If you are emplying the build is glassy than I would again remind you it has about the same EH as your build. For a more balanced build ghosts can probably do ok[…]in WvW (Had to omit that part). Also you didn’t directly address my removal of hidden killer (which I find useless).

If you want a higher crit chance use oils and soup.

Also acknowledge air sigils they’re lonely.

The purpose of my counter builds is get a cost effective version of your builds (which probably annoys you :P) while maintaining similar to better stats.

Ok so here it is my lackadaisically made build.

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/thief/?7.0|8.1p.h2.8.1p.h1|c.1p.h2.8.1p.h1|1c.a7.1c.a7.1c.a7.1c.a7.1c.a7.1p.a7|2s.d13.2s.d13.3s.d17.3s.d17.2s.d13.2s.d13|0.u36b.u56b.a1.0|2e.1|57.5c.5b.5h.0|e

Got rid of sigils of fire (although you can use air over force). Added sigils of accuracy to improve overall crit chance. Added truffle steak to improve EF. Removed hidden killer in favor of executioner to improve overall dps and with sigils of accuracy you still have a high BS crit chance.

Overall all stats are improved on the site without use divinity runes or scholars. You can still use soup with this since steak barely improves EF.

The only real reason for the increase in EF is that it doesn’t count sigil of fire, however if it counted executioner it would still be higher (even though it doesn’t count hidden killer either). Also fire < air acknowledge it (well for dagger builds anyway)!!!!!

You could do this same thing to your build and get superior stats so why am I bringing this up? ‘Cause you didn’t.

Jumper.9482:

WonderfulCT.6278:

I can’t lie, I have no idea what you’re describing. I’m not even sure if you’re talking sPvP/tPvP or WvW nor am I sure what you consider a base.

And I have no idea how one can’t recognize this as Legacy of the Foefire, GW2’s most iconic map.

Man imagine if you ever met someone who has never played sPvP you’d have nothing in common .

Also how is it the most iconic map? I get you probably don’t play the rest of the game too much but based on what can you say it beats settings such as LA, CoF or even the 2 WvW maps? There are a bunch of maps in rotation in sPvP so its not as if you only play that one all the time (I hope) compared to WvW where you are always on the same 2 maps (all 3 borderlands are the same).

I don’t play sPvP myself too much and wasn’t trying to diss you (as crazy as that may seem), I honestly had no idea what you were trying to describe.

Jumper.9482:

So this one time I shadow returned to a SR on mid (graveyard) from the tunnel area next to the enemy team’s base.
It ported me up ontop of the bridge.
o.O
Other times it just doesn’t work at all…

I can’t lie, I have no idea what you’re describing. I’m not even sure if you’re talking sPvP/tPvP or WvW nor am I sure what you consider a base.

Zacchary.6183:

There are no rabid exo chest gear unless you do WvW. You can buy carrion off the TP though.

EDIT: You also need to get the rabid trinkets from the balthazar temple.

Go on the tp and type in Vatlaaw’s.

Go on the tp and search through trinkets and you will find rabid ones for all options.

There are no rabid jewels however so to get close to regular exotic trinket stats you have to get ascended gear. I use crests but they are not the same.

Almost my entire engineer’s rabid gear set was obtained through the TP. Only the rings and amulet weren’t.

Rabid trinkets are from dwayna.

Edit: Also this being mainly a bleed build I recommend going for condition duration over damage. Essentially I think it would be better to take 2 runes of lyssa and 4 nightmare runes over undead.

Personally I would probably go full rabid and maybe get some sigil procs going but only if you put points into acrobatics and/or have strong condition removal. Otherwise since thieves have low hp it is best to try to incorpate some into your build if running conditions.

Naw guys you’re all wrong.

-Step 1 name your character after a song

-Step 2 play that song whenever you play with that character

-Step 3 get bored of the song and question why you named your character after a song.

The song

wish.1027:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTBkUhBsEVA

The lack of skill from the enemies it burns. Face a condition engie or anything tanky and I can’t really see this working at all the way it is. If you plan to win in outnumbered situations you need to be at least able to kill one guy. -Ignore this sentence cause it kinda applies to D/any thieves in general.

From what I saw in the video you could likely have just worn scholars and done alright (this not me trying to push scholars on you, its me emphasizing how bad the enemies were).

Btw anyone wearing CoF armor is bad its an easy to pick up on fact since they are likely wearing zerk gear and therefore have no chance solo as well as having very little time spent in pvp. I’m not sorry to you CoF armor wearing people.

Last thing sigil of fire does <1k damage on hit from what I’ve seen in the vid with no chance of crit (not affecting omnom’) so it’s damage is neglible. I really think you’d be better off with air. It would take someone with less than 10k health to even lose the benefit from scholars from fire. -Probably the only section worth reading

Why would I want to reduce “hate” towards thieves? It hilarious to see people complain without any facts just stating, “Stealth OP plz nerf.” I only made and used my thief to annoy people after being killed by them myself .

Now that I don’t use my thief much any more, facing them I just feel sorry. The class is very weak to most tanky builds and good (experienced) players in general.

Currently I don’t really see any build the thief has as too strong however P/D and S/D can do pretty well in duels but in larger encounters is a little less useful.

To be honest the class is more in need of buffs than nerfs and I hope A-Net makes an effort to address this.

On the topic of Omnomberry ghosts I’m not sure if you know but they have an internal cooldown of 1 sec and steal 341 health (from the wiki). They are definately useful but I’ve never tried them to judge.

I recommend using power precision food which in this case would be plate of truffle steak. Also on the site this increases effective power over using butternut squash soup.

So I played around with some values and I came up with this: http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/thief/?7.0|8.1p.h2.8.1p.h17|c.1p.h2.8.1p.h17|1c.a7.1c.a7.1c.a7.1c.a7.1c.a7.1p.a7|2s.d13.2s.d13.3s.d17.3s.d17.2s.d13.2s.d13|0.u36c.u56b.a1.0|39.1|57.5c.5b.5h.0|e

It’s very similar in stats your 0/30/30/10/0 build but a much smaller fraction of the costs.

It uses ruby orbs instead of divinity’s and less berserker pieces with one valkyrie one.

Edit: I recommend making the last piece soldiers as well but I was trying to keep the stats as close to OP’s as possible.

wish.1027:

WonderfulCT.6278:

Well I never really knew if this was for WvW (if so how large the encounters) or sPvP, however I do run scholar runes (with a more glassy build) with a soldier set and it does work quite effectively. Edit: In WvW.

Its just for discussion of balanced builds. I dont really care if you use it in PVE or WvW though. sPVP dont have any of the gear I listed in the builds, or the foods though, lol.

this thread is for discussion of balanced builds to determine the best possible stat combination.

I simply pointed out that the only time it really matters (WvW when youre fighting someone worth half a crap) you wont gain the scholar rune benefit since you wont instagib them and theyll hit you back. For PVE I’d advise full berserker and scholar runes though.

I’m not trying to one-up you or anything like that, I said that’s just if going for a mathematical improvement, obviously there are things the site does not take into account with its numbers.

That and I’m really biased towards divinity runes as you can probably tell.

From personal experience though you definately get benefit from the 10% above 90% more than just after you get hit the first time. Shadow’s rejuvenation along with hide in shadows and shadow refuge will allow you some good opportunities for high damaging moments. Also when running with help (non-thieves make good distractions) it is a lot easier to pop in and out delivering a quick few hits once in a while without taking damage and that 10% really helps.

wish.1027:

Fire is because its AOE, and Im always fighting more than 1 person. But youre right, for 1on1 Lightning strike is better.

As for the Scholar runes, its a nice try, but seriously, even taking 1 hit, you wont be above 90% HP, and then that builds Effective Power drops to 4879, and it loses. When fighting skilled players (when it matters) you will not gain that benefit, and I refuse to use stuff that is to uncontrollably situational like that. I assume most people agree with me as well, for those that dont though, or those that dont take damage ever, your suggestion is very good. Your rune choice is for the instagibbing thieves of the world. But come back at me with another try, thats the only way we will learn and progress.

Well I never really knew if this was for WvW (if so how large the encounters) or sPvP, however I do run scholar runes (with a more glassy build) with a soldier set and it does work quite effectively. Edit: In WvW.

I will try to comment without making any snide remarks, well here goes.

You choose to use divinity runes which is fine however I think not using them is generally a better choice. The damage you can gain from other runes is much better, as well as you could just use orbs/crests for stats. Its likely you won’t even notice most of the stats gained from divinity. +60 to all stats is ok but not great, 12% crit damage however is quite nice.

To improve your build mathematically (by the sites math not mine) change the last 3 zerker pieces to soldier then use scholar runes: http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/thief/?7.0|8.1c.h2.8.1c.h17|c.1c.h2.8.1c.h17|1c.7e.1c.7e.1c.7e.1c.7e.1c.7e.1c.7e|2s.d13.2s.d13.3s.d17.3s.d17.2s.d13.2s.d13|a3.u36c.u56b.0.0|39.1|57.5c.5b.5h.0|e

Thats for the 10/30/30/0/0 build btw. This improves both surivability and damage while lowering costs for useless runes (I lost, snide comment right here).

Also I don’t get why people use fire sigils over air unless there is some kinda bug I don’t know about. As D/D in general is a for single targets using sigil of fire would lower dps compared to air even though it can damage a larger audience. Edit: I don’t mean loss of dps, just that the small splash of damage from sigil of fire (even smaller since the lack of power and lack of crit ability) is going to be negligible when used on targets other than your main one. Not that air does a considerable amount higher or anything it just is more noticeable on a target you’re applying pressure to.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

WonderfulCT.6278:

I have to dissagree with your post as well, mesmers are very easy to pick out from clones and standing there with them is not going to help. It just reduces their dps and makes getting close and landing hits easier since they aren’t moving.

I said;
“Even though Mesmer has a limited access to stealth, they can still hide in plain sight. This is what drives me crazy when a Mesmer knows their profession too well. "

“So the lesson is, if you stay at the back trying to attack me from ranged — you’re a dead man walking. Instead, blend in with your illusionary crowd and you’d be safe.”

So where did you get your idea from?

And those who said that they can CnD the clones, this is what I said;

“Another thing I hate the most is the Confusion upon shattering an illusion because if I get it wrong, I get a painful stack of Confusion.”

It is fairly obvious who are those who has not fought a good Mesmer…only kittenty ones.

Take your aggressive judgmental comments somewhere else. Don’t even bother replying to what I said if you’re not even going to comprehend what I posted.

Ok so mesmers are really easy to pick out from clones.

Simple things to look for:

-Item buffs

-Bloodlust stacks

-Chaos shield (clones can have this too so this isn’t a sure thing)

-Weapon being used

-The skills they use

-If they chase you when you unstealth. Generally if I can’t discern which is the real one I put space between us and see what chases and how it chases. I don’t play thief too much anymore so it’s much easier to pick the real one due to them auto attacking more frequently. If not using stealth just keep moving and occasionally put some distance between you two if having trouble finding the real one it creates much easier givaways.

-If they do or don’t move. This is more something you get used to picking up on but trying to blend in is a waste of time since it is almost impossible to move exactly like an npc would. Also I find most players trying to blend in don’t auto attack making it easier to pick up on them. Dodging and moving in a way that isn’t directly towards you (as their pathfinding allows) is also a dead givaway.

-Look for conditions and condition ticks. I don’t waste time attacking clones so typically it is most likely that the real one would be taking the most from conditions.

-Target the real mesmer, yes this seems obvious but it seems a lot of people don’t do this. Mesmers don’t run directly at players or stand still when being chased. If a mesmer stealths wait for him to unstealth at which point it is easy to get the real one. Also target the real one from the start.

A mesmer standing amoung clones can only do damage and blend in if you let him. You can also CnD off the clones without too many problems and it can also be used to find out the real one as usually the real one won’t notice you for that split second you appear and dissapear.

Why would they randomly nerf stealth because people complain, they did that already so doing it again would just be kinda…anyways revealed works well enough I think and D/P thieves typically suck.

Really not sure why people act like they’re so invincible they die easy. Also thieves cannot just stay stealthed as that makes it almost impossible to do any amount of useful damage.

This nerf is not needed at all.

JubeiTM.5763:

Nice build. However the title said “PVE” but your link contains “PVP” setups. You can change the setup from the up-right corner and it will give you access to PVE gear. So you might want to make it right and remake it. You will need to get a new link and efit your post.

The static discharge from cleansing burst and BoB will hit only if you are very near of the targets. Otherwise they hit the ground?

I think you need the goggles to break stun. And since you are the boss of vulnerability applying, it helps. I will try the build, sounds like a lot of fun. Extreme range and viable in close combat due to endurance regen.

The build being pvp is more of just laziness/following the trend here’s the pve version: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqalIq6ZHxy2F17IyoHkWntZgKAYfeIXtFEC-jAyAYrASaAoEgJvioxW4KiGraBTVSEV7NKiWNA-e

Some things I should mention is that zerker gear is not mandatory and you should not feel obligated to use it if just starting out. I personally use Knights armor atm and it works fine.

The thing with static discharge is it doesn’t home in on your target or position you to be facing your target. In order to get it to hit you need to have used a skill prior to its activation that makes you perfectly in line to hit your target. This essentially just means that any skills that don’t auto target will miss (basically nades and heals). So regenerating mist will miss on its own, B.O.B. will hit, grenade barrage will miss, and analyze will hit. If you were using the pistol or bomb kit (on auto attack) you would probably be able to consistently hit with static discharge but I haven’t actually tested this. I have tested tool kit skills though.

Goggles are definately my prefered option but I do like to switch up that skill from time to time based on the encounter.

Build here: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqalIq6ZHxy2F17IyoHkWntZgKAYfeIXtFEC-ToAg0CnIwRhjDHDOScs4M0YmA

This build is meant to be able to maintain a consistently high amount of vulnerablity stacks and damage while at the same time providing good CC.

For P/P only use static shot and glue shot as they are good for handling mobs.

I prefer healing turret over med kit (which was the only other option I considered) since it provides good heals, condition removal and a low recharge all without changing my main set.

Bomb kit: This is the highest damaging weapon in the build so don’t hesitate to just start laying bombs all over. Also use smoke bomb for a nice blind field and glue bomb for some nice snare action. Fire bomb is also nice for the combo field and getting might stacks but is not useful for direct damage. Don’t use concussion bomb.

Grenade kit: Spamming regular nades is a good way to maintain vulnerability stacks and the damage isn’t bad. Shrapnel grenade does more damage than regular ones so it should be used whenever available. Flash grenades are good for blinds so should also be used without cease. Freeze grenades are probably my favourite CC skill and make kiting mobs extremly easy. Poison grenades shouldn’t be used.

Utility goggles are optional but they happen to be my favourite 3rd skill so atm thats what I use. Elixer B (Elixer U is also a good option for dps and defensive abilities it just has a long long recharge) is also pretty good but spamming the tool belt skill is annoying so I don’t recommend it.

Supply crate is also optional but it also very helpful and can be used as a blast finisher. I’m not too fond of transformations or roots so recommend this for that reason alone.

Tool belt skills: I’ve never been too big a fan of regenerating mists but it can just be used whenever if you want to trigger static discharge or you can use B.O.B. and if you time it right get a water blast finisher.

Speaking of B.O.B. its a bit awkward to have as it should not be spammed or just used for blast finishers. On regular mobs the skill should only be used if your team does not have them balled together at all as scattering them would be a waste. However the skill does some good damage and so it can be used literally as a finisher. On bosses the skill can be used regularly and I personally like to use it with fire bomb to get my team some might stacks (on boss fights).

Grenade barrage can just be spammed whenever as it gets a high vulnerability count immediately.

Analyze is the same and can just be used whenever for free vulnerability stacks and to activate stactic discharge.

General stuff: So to get the highest dps out of the build keeping the enemies useless and vulnerable is essential. Spamming nades is the easiest way to maintain vuln stacks but don’t get stuck throwing them. Bombs deal more damage and with grenade barrage+analyze you can still do a high burst of vulnerability. The build isn’t just about dps its also about controlling mobs which is why using blinds and snares are also essential. In addition don’t forget about the two pistol skills static shot and glue shot as they are also helpful. If you are used to using invigorating speed don’t forget that you have 50% less of an increase in endurance regen, but you get 10% endurance per tool belt skill used assuming the trait works.

Some stuff about runes I forgot: I recommend scholar (if you have a sigil of accuracy), eagle or 2-3 runes of lyssa and ruby orbs.

Edit: Also I forgot to mention this build is mostly intended for dungeons.

Feedback (positive or negative) and suggestions are welcome.

intimidate much.1298:

Understand that thieves were designed to kill…………… players. They do have that advantage of determinating if a fight starts or not.

I don’t really want to just start attacking this quote so if you don’t mind elaborating on what you were trying to say it would be appreciated as currently I could just say so does(is) every other class.

psy.5437:

Any ideas on how to deal with organised thief duos? (WvWvW)

Fought two organised perma stealth thieves and it was an absolute nightmare to fight them as they kept comboing off each others smoke powder, alternating c&d and using shadow refuge, very protracted fight but one that woree myself and another beastmaster ranger down eventually.

Lost every engagement to them with out even denting them, I run a hybrid beastmaster ranger, generally I find thieves on their lonesome not much an issue this was something bordering on ridiculous.

What the heck is a perma stealth thief? Please if you answer this than maybe I’ll have a way to help you because I don’t think your gonna be able to kill something you can never see too easily.