Guild Wars 2

Hitman.5829:

Very simple and to the point:

Shadow embrace need to be put in grand master trait. If the thief want to have a survival build then let them spend 30 points in shadow arts.

Simple, crystal clear.

End of story

No. Shadow’s Embrace is one of thieve’s best condition removal and it’s barely on par with other professions. I am not even going to ask what you plan to give thieves to compensate for such a big nerf because I know you will answer with “moar skill-based play”.

You’de have wasted less time and done more by just saying “delete thief”.

EDIT: btw if thief condition removal is OP then why are you not on a thief abusing this in the condition meta. Lemme guess… pride.

You know I have always wondered….

I think they get the models that detailed by first creating a massive model of it first and make it as detailed as possible and then shrinking it so that the polygons mesh with eachother and create a surface that one would consider realistic.

Valandil Dragonhart.2371:

Zacchary.6183:

Why waste craploads of time and money on a legendary when you can make an ascended weapon that is cheaper and way easier to make?

Because they’re butt-ugly. In fact just about everything ascended so far is in the same boat for looks. Transmutation is the only option there, other than not bothering.

It’s called subjectivity, ladies & gents.

Still less of a hassle.

“Hey look thief is getting buffed again.”

OneBloke.7264:

IchigoHatake.5098:

What about warriors? They can have berserker stance, dolyak signet, cleansing ire trait, all of which can remove condi quickly, plus thieves have low health, taking away their condi removal means making the class quite under powered.

1. berserker stance takes up a utility slot and has a 60sec cooldown
2. Dolyak Signet doesn’t remove conditions. Duh
3. cleansing ire is a master trait and requires that you first build up adrenaline and then land your burst. This can’t be done every 4secs like thieves entering stealth

Adrenaline can be built up very quick and its 3 conditions for each max burst (1 condition per bar spent).

Why waste craploads of time and money on a legendary when you can make an ascended weapon that is cheaper and way easier to make?

Dear Arenanet,

Thief is not a free loot bag yet. Please nerf mobility, healing and stealth further.

Sincerely,
Player

Dear OP, if you were able to kill 8 people they were either very horrible or they let you kill them.

It does not mean that SR is OP.

I like Mobile Loot Bag.

Eloquence.5207:

Well well, isn’t this a glorious circle-jerk?

I complain because I didn’t roll a thief sooner, so I can play the victim card, and brush off any feedback by touting “L2P”.

FYI The thief circle-jerk exists because baddie circle-jerk continues to produce some influence over the devs. And that circle-jerk existed WAY before the circle-jerk you are labeling.

And for the record, good feedback comes from people who know what they are talking about. Most of the players who cry about thieves tend to be bad players who neglect to do simple things like maintaining situational awareness, NOT afking outside a keep and learning all of the other professions so they know what to expect from each of them.

But baddies want their free lootbags, not honorable combat. They want that self assurance that they are not bad players without putting forth the work, something that thieves have to do just to pull off the one move that requires the most set up and planning in the game. And better yet, you can’t just heal your mistakes away as a thief. Our best heals are SoM passive and Hide in Shadows.

But none of you would know that because you don’t know a thing about thieves. Try playing a profession with almost zero “oh ****” buttons for once.

EDIT: And you know what, it’s kind of offensive to have an ignorant person’s word heard over mine especially since I have clocked a good 90% of my game time on one and spent at least 80% of the time I spent on it testing traits and skill combinations in PvX. Do you know what it feels like to have everything you worked for suddenly not count?

Incurafy.6329:

stuff

In other words, people have no kittening idea how Thieves work, but being killed by one obviously means that they’re OP, there’s no other answer.

Roll another profession… unless you want to know how they work.

They should get remove access to the PPT window until after reset. That way servers don’t lose on the first day because of the loss of morale due to nightcapping. Everyone will be able to see how well they did afterwards

Zero Day.2594:

Zacchary.6183:

Thief already is a free lootbag. Just look at the video.

Well… I would agree … BUT
it’s still moving around. And I can’t just walk up to a thief and press F…

You need to mash 1 until the F button appears.

Thief already is a free lootbag. Just look at the video.

1.) He is a warrior.
2.) Shadow Refuge doesn’t inflict any conditions.

v To answer Zero without waiting 30 minutes for flood control:

1.) Chain attacks will advance if you clip a player in stealth. This let’s you know the thief is close enough to land a backstab.
2.) Moving around makes it drastically harder for a thief to land a backstab.

Viking Jorun.5413:

Sanduskel.1850:

L2p /15 characters.

So when someone actually comes in with a valid argument, who is not a thief, showing that thieves aren’t OP, you have nothing to say other than telling them (or the thieves he beat) to learn to play? Please elaborate, Sanduskel. We’ll await your response with baited comments.

Nothing to elaborate on. If he tried to argue he would be dead wrong and too many people would call him out on that. So, instead of fighting it he just writes it off with the tried and true El Toopy. Way to avoid a discussion lol.

Paulytnz.7619:

Again I think a big part of the problem that people find with thieves is that they CAN spam certain skills (this one being the one that stealthes when used) and again I say perhaps if others can also spam weapon skills they could deal with them easier. (I know my flamethrower skill 5 would easily deal with them for example :P)

No the problem is:

Oh my god. They killed me. They are OP. <— mostly this.
+
omgwtf10kouttanowhere while afking outside a keep.

Not on my watch.

you know what, kitten it.

I deleted my thief for a few reasons:

1.) Trolls like those two, who are clearly trolling, are allowed to fill up an entire page of a serious topic with agenda-ridden lies plus 2 months worth of the same spam and not get banned.

2.) The developers listen to crying casualtastic baddies more than to the very people (me being one of them) who wasted most of their hours getting the most out of every part of thief gameplay. Since when is experience invalid?!

3.) The developers tried bull****ing us multiple times. MASSSSIVE +33% initiative regen (for a MASSSIVE 50% gain reduction)! Omg healing venom (a Signet of Malice for kittens on a kitten CD…. nope, venoms still suck. Would rather just use SoM.)!!! Oh and let’s not forget, we want you to be more engaged in combat so we made sword 2 unable to bypass stuns.

4.) Remember the last time we got a legitimate red post that actually showed genuine concern for the thief profession? I don’t.

5.) And then the mods dumped all of the thief QQ in the theif forums when they should have just deleted them.

6.) Then I get infraction after infraction for reminding scrubs they are bad players.

So let them damage the game further, I say.

FuriousPop.2789:

Zacchary.6183:

I found that MF does nothing because the probability of an item dropping is soley dependent upon how much it costs in the TP.

And this is coming from a guy who has never gotten anything worth more than 1g.

if that was true, then we shouldn’t be getting blues and greens since they are in the kitten areas….

we should be getting more white junk

That’s probably because the cost is factored into an exponential function. It would barely matter between white and blue/green because there is barely a difference in costs. Then you compare items that are worth 15s+ and you start seeing really noticeable drop rates. And then we get to zerk exos, which tend to be impossible in my world.

I found that MF does nothing because the probability of an item dropping is soley dependent upon how much it costs in the TP.

And this is coming from a guy who has never gotten anything worth more than 1g.

How about anet stops touching what we already have and ADD some counterplay to all professions that lack it?

I mean, adding skills and traits that could temporarily shut down combat advantages would not only increase build diversity but make combat less stale. The way they go about balance is like hitting a totaled motorcycle back into shape.

I will agree that, in theory, nerfing everything will increase build diversity because whatever you choose is going to suck around the same severity. However, arenanet has not nerfed everything and has thusly contributed to the changes in the meta.

So I shall say this again…. leave what isn’t broken alone and start adding some more skills. If those new skill need a slight tap with nerf bat, then by all means do so but understand that breaking everything is not your only option.

We keep getting nerfed because anet does not consult with players who understand the class. Instead, they get their profession balance suggestions from 4 random players from one of the gold leagues.

That means not all of the professions are accounted for and you can kitten well bet most if not all 4 of those players are biased towards their own profession.

Aza, you are beating a dead horse. It is not going to happen.

Sanduskel.1850:

Scizzor.8137:

Sanduskel.1850:

Very few thieves dare admit how opd stealth is. I can admit it because I am not uber skilled at games like these, yet I find my thief laughbly easy in wvw versus other classes.

Are you that baddie guardian on SoR who complains in WvW everyday when you lose to a thief? lol

No. I play thieves and other classes. My thief doesn’t lose to other thieves, lol

Judging by your post history, I can assume you normally use a generic stealth build and I gotta say, you are going to have a very hard time against my d/d conditions.

Let’s hope I remember to trait again so my ThiefvThief k/d doesn’t go lower than 22:1.

MonMalthias.4763:

stuff

And mesmers and their confusion (sometimes daze) spam was not fun to play against… until I played one. Then they were very fun to fight.

Likewise with every profession (including thief), you will have more fun fighting them by learning about them through firsthand experience.

But the “Thief needs stealth to survive” argument is still valid.

First off, our best line is Shadow Arts because most of the profession’s damage mitigation is in it. Every stealth based trait in SA, save Hidden Assassin, either directly or indirectly affects survivability. You could not get the same level of survivability from Acrobatics because it does not give as much access to healing and condition removal.

Secondly, evades can fail. Most of our evades which come from our weapon skills do not last the entire animation. Add to the fact that they are highly telegraphed, evasion skills are not enough.

So to put it into perspective: thieves, with their naturally low health and armor, poor healing, lack of defensive boons, competitive condition cleanse and general damage mitigation thieves have to rely on timed evades and the target/visual break of stealth to avoid damage (damage avoidance).

Thieves can’t cleanse damaging conditions or heal as well as other professions. So to survive on one, they must avoid getting hit by any attack as much as they possibly can. Otherwise, the conditions will melt them and the direct damage will make them explode.

Gallrvaghn.4921:

Stx.4857:

I will never understand the crying over stealth. Thieves are so squishy. Without stealth they would be free kills.

With stealth they roam around picking targets and racking up free kills. There’s a reason almost all roamers are thieves and use zerker gear. Stealth is the ultimate defense mechanism.

And without it they are just loot bags.

Venoms need to have a passive that inflicts conditions after certain number of attacks with an active that drops a short duration combo field at their feet. That way the thieves can use venoms as a form of group support and Arenanet can replace half of the venom traits with something that makes traps more attractive.

What: Cantrips teeph
Why: Cantrips teeph too easy to play

Prufe:

^ Death Blossom and Cantrips with Signet of Malice. Give us a difficult one.

I agree. Forums is very overpowered. I should know, I play the forums profession.

(did i doitrite?)

A thief nerf thread with suggestions to improve thief survivability? Absurd.

Malchior.5042:

Ideally, they probably want suggestions to stay within the vein of existing game mechanics and not be too time-consuming.

An example for out-of-scope would be…changing every single trait or skill on a profession.

Looks like fixing the useless 80% of thief traits is out of the question.

What: My flood control and suspension length.
Why: Because a 30 minute flood control and 8 day suspension per infraction is a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time.

Solution: Let me tell baddies they are bad instead of playing the politically correct game!!! >.<

That’s what happens when you cry for nerfs so much that the profession gets cornered to the point where the veteran thief community shelves their thieves so much that the only people who are playing are newbies.

And you didn’t expect this kitten to happen??

Warriors can clear it easily.

If stealth is overpowered, like you keep saying, then why are you not playing a thief?

Actually I have beaten cnd/bs thieves with a d/d condition thief. The constant AoE bleeding melts them pretty fast and there is little they can do about it since d/d is the best chase set thieves have.

As for necros, the counter to thieves is staff because of the coverage of marks and the conditions they inflict. Secondly, the marks allow you to see their general location so you can aim your auto in that direction.

Although I should have specified what kind of ranged attack I was talking about. Its the projectile type of ranged attacks.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

I’m afraid that seeing your opponent off on the horizon is not really fair or balanced in any shape or form… If he stealths and you 1, can’t tell if he is going to flee or fight, and 2 cant tell where he went, you will never catch a roaming thief in WvW, even if you are a better player.

Then you take that as a win. If the thief were to stay and fight you would have won anyways.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Regardless of what a player uses when he is revealed to remain defensive, is there anything you can do besides get lucky when attempting to effectively damage a foe while he is in stealth?

Also…
When an opponent is stealthed (even if you know exactly where he is) and you are using a ranged weapon, how are you expected to hit your opponent if your attacks completely miss without a target?

If you have trouble with any profession, the best thing anyone can ever do is step in that profession’s shoes. When I started out playing thief in WvW I couldn’t kill a mesmer for the life of me. Then I made one and eventually found out why I was getting my kitten handed to me so much. They began to be less of a problem and I managed to kill one soon after I got back in afterwards.

As for the second question, you do not need a target to use the auto attack. In fact most attacks don’t require a target. Another thing I have learned about ranged attacks is that they fire from your character’s chest. If you use the mouse to control movement and camera (via holding right click), you can use your toon’s chest as a targeting reticle and use it to aim your shots.

I like to practice that on ambients for targets.

OH! OH! I can answer!!! /flailingarms

TheBlackLeech.9360:

A stealthed opponent can flee with no chance of a pursuer of catching him unless he is a psychic and manages to guess which one of 360 different directions in which his opponent has fled. How do you anticipate which direction he has gone, other than guessing?

If he is running away while stealthed, you can stay in the general area and sweep your surroundings with the camera while moving to avoid the possibility of a backstab. He will unstealth eventually and will then have to wait for cooldowns to end before reengaging. You will be able to spot the guy in the distance once he unstealths and then track or chase him.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

The skill Black Powder essentially prevents a revealed opponent from taking damage from many traditional sources in the short amount of time he is unstealthed. The combo field blinds melee foes and destroys incoming projectiles. Since black powder is an initiative based skill, it can be maintained until a player is no longer revealed. How do you effectively deal damage to a stealthed foe, other than guessing, if he spams his smoke field on your location every time he is revealed?

Black Powder cannot destroy projectiles. Smoke Screen does. Also Black Powder can only be chained maybe twice before you have to wait for initiative to regen.

As for blind, it takes 1 attack to clear it. And seeing as how a BP field can be easily avoided it isn’t that much trouble.

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

you know what? I just watched a few youtube clips on how to play a thief and it just looks like too much fun. I’m going to level up my thief and start having fun in WvW against some poor solos. Don’t nerf stealth now. :P

This is the [/thread]. Y’all can stop post now.

There should be a trap that increases skill level.

Quizotic.2815:

Easlay.3297:

this stealth op would explain why thief is the most popular class in wvw and spvp.
oh wait…it isn’t…

as the “insane mobility and teleports”, we have way less than an elementalist, mesmer or a warrior c’mon…if a thief spam the #5 of bow then is just for an escape, so isn’t a threat since would be out of initiative after 2 teleports

really cuz I can get like 3-4 in on my thief, evan just increasing the initiative to make it so they could only do it twice or maybe making it the only thief weapon skill with a cooldown, could honestly fix the issue. people keep saying the issue is stealth but the real issue is stealth and movement.

tho I do agree warrior movement need a real nerf

So you get rid of stealth and movement and what does that leave thieves with?

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

When I first heard about stealth in GW2 (I think it was long before Beta) it sounded more like this:

When you’re hit in stealth, you will be revealed for a short amount of time. Dots will reveal the stealthed character as long as he takes damage from it.

Wouldn’t this be a more interesting stealth-mechanic and more fun to 90% of the playerbase? What do you think?

You could very well have just said “delete thief” because this idea would make thieves a waste of coding.

Big Tower.5423:

To the peeps saying roll guard/warr. What if he’s attached to certain archetypes? for example i will NEVER roll a heavy char aside from a alt alt…..

Then that’s his choice. However, I am saving him from hell by showing him an alternative course of action.

Don’t even try Okaishi. He doesn’t play a thief let alone the game.

EDIT: And fyi, Sanduskel, before you start accusing me of spying on you it was your persistent trolling on a whole community (who was willing to be nice to you i might add) that would make anyone even think about seeking you out.

I just showed those people your post history. They were the ones who got kitten ed off and looked for you.

Then you two are apparently not killing fast enough. Perhaps lay off the toughness stacking a little?

EDIT: It would also help to lay off all the bunker traits as well. With some power, pressure and a little knowledge anyone can down or repel a thief easily.

They all have everything available. However, some are better than others and in most cases much better than a thief.

EDIT: You know someone mentioned that there were threads posted that took the same path as this one. Instead of me giving you a kitten comment or explaining something I already explained 5 times, I suggest you go read the 50 other mount threads and maybe do some research so that you have a better understanding of where all these non-supporters are coming from.

Sanduskel.1850:

We thieves are the only class that can be glass cannons and not suffer the consequences. That’s bad design.

Don’t you mean warriors?

Silhouette.5631:

You say that, and yet threads like this keep popping up

because none of you listen or care what other players think. There were multiple reasons given to you guys why having mounts in this game is a bad idea and every single one of them were ignored. Since you’ll never pay attention to us, you’ll continue to post mount threads and everyone else will continue to say, “no”.

You guys won’t admit that you won’t take anything less than “yes” when the fact is: If GW2 is to have mounts they would need to redesign the whole game. In regards to anet’s track record, that is never going to happen.