Guild Wars 2

You do know there are some condition sets that use full rabid right? Aside from the last bit the runeset really only helps with sets that use rabid. However thief runes suck in general.

Auesis.7301:

I don’t have much to add. Just this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypZNiSHBb_s

:O

That’s like a year’s worth of tears packed into 8 seconds!

Sons.5493:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

D/D is the generic common weapon set for Thieves and this rune supports that set.

Specialized Thieves will not take this runes.

This doesn’t even make sense, try harder.

Yeah it does. This is best for condition builds (mainly d/d conditions +backstab) that also rely on on-crit effects. Otherwise you are wasting half of the set. And backstab is weak in a condition set.

Troll harder.

I doubt it. Anet’s track record isn’t promising.

Shadowscamp.8065:

TL;DR: In a good group, the role of a thief hasn’t changed. People are just looking in the wrong places for inspiration.

I guess you are right. Playing one-trick-ponies isn’t my thing. I am not the type of player who can see past the uselessness of this weak profession and just purely enjoy the original type of combat it provides.

However thieves, being a solo profession, is getting pigeonholed back into x/d and sooner or later those will get nerfed. As of now thieves suck in solo because its way easier to damage players with other professions.

Right now the thief is as close to a free kill as anet can make it in my eyes. It used to be fun because I could support the party and myself through damage and damaging conditions, however after back-to-back nerfs to damage and utility, the survivability is now getting hit and I don’t want to have to adapt for the umpteenth time.

In fact I could relate this to a passionate relationship between two people. Most of the time after the couple knows each other enough, they become sober from the intoxicating joy of their first few months. They become comfortable with each other and start exhibiting the bad habits of the time before they got together. These bad habits begin to irritate the other and escalates until one of them flips the other the bird and walks out.

As a thief, I am tired of anet’s and the bleeding hearts’ crap so I am getting out of this profession. They won and as a prize they made the game more unpolished.

You guys can contribute you know. This entire thread doesn’t have to be about 1 vid. You could post pictures, quotes and other crap to make the brain juices flowing.

For all that theorycrafting you guys do you are not that philisophical. >.< I could write a small book on this!

Think deeper!

Conncept.7638:

stuff

You realize that stealth, blinds and evades makes up for the crappy healing, heal scaling and all of the support boons thieves do not have access to. And then there is the fact of post-overnerf buffing. I KNOW that even after thieves get nerfed to oblivion that any buffs given afterwards would not be welcomed by the gw2 community.

Its like people want thieves to stand there and die for them.

^ Not all thieves backstab. Secondly, a good thief can’t land backstab on a good player more than a third of the time they attempt it because of the setup it requires. However bad players don’t understand the concept and unintentionally open themselves up for the damage spike.

Taking the hit is essentially their punishment for making it easier to land the backstab.

On Topic: They were better when you only needed 1 and be a thief to get all 6 tiers. :c

FlamingFoxx.1305:

There is an option to turn down skill visuals…

There are some people who would like to turn it all off. :3

This thread is meant for deep discussion about thieves, their skills, direction, etc. Mindkittens are encouraged. Allow me to start this thread off with some relative comparison.

Relate this vid to the Dec 10th changes to this profession.

PROTIP: You can contribute instead of trying to siphon messages out of the vid I posted.
>.<

GO! GO! GO!

Sanduskel.1850:

swinsk.6410:

Blah blah, I hate arenanet and their balance of thief.

What? Sword/Dagger has tons of evades/jukes and kills people? NERF INTO OBLIVION!
What? D/P has lots of stealth allowing removal of condis and healing? NERF INTO OBLIVION!
What? Dancing Dagger has amazing dps and kills people? NERF INTO OBLIVION!
What? Thieves stealth every 3s? NERF TO 4s!

We have never received a “real” buff to this class ever and if those kittens at arenanet think increased init regen is such a huge buff to cover all the incredibly huge nerfs this patch they are on some serious drugs.

I’m having fun until dec 10 on thief, after that, bye bye gw2 probably.

I am sorry that you seem to be struggling with your thief. Spec something other than D/P. I prefer D/D but others will do. Why don’t you wait to see the patch results vs insulting anet?

d/d conditions isn’t that great.

pantsforbirds.9032:

Sanduskel.1850:

Zacchary.6183:

Burnfall.9573:

Arcuss.6457:

you people are kittening stupid. You’re complaining about a profession that has kitten defense and kitten attack (save for stealth backstabs, which is why they have an exposed condition), and you want them to take away the only way a dps thief can survive. sounds like a bunch of cry babies who got their kitten handed to them by thieves.

What is a cry baby when we get you to 80%-90% health and you cowards stealth away.

Fight like a man than you will never hear us cry.

Like the saying goes, “Bravery bring Honor, Cowards bring Disgrace”

-Arena.net designed and supports a Coward Mechanic which Disgraces the Rule of Class Balance-

What a Shame.

If it is so overpowered, then why are you and sanduskel not playing it?

lol i AM playing it. i am not playing scrub spec though.

I’m curious what build you run. You’ve stated you don’t use “perma stealth,” “perma evade,” and you have lots of health from training defensively. Would you mind posting your build? Are you a condi thief or what?

He runs this.

So am I. However, the difference between you and I is experience. While most people tend to favor either-or I see both sides of the table because I have not only mained a thief for over a year but I have fought and taught my profession.

How can you label something you barely know? You can’t lest risk ignorance.

Sanduskel.1850:

lol i AM playing it. i am not playing scrub spec though.

Then prove it. I have been waiting for 2 months, yo.

Burnfall.9573:

Arcuss.6457:

you people are kittening stupid. You’re complaining about a profession that has kitten defense and kitten attack (save for stealth backstabs, which is why they have an exposed condition), and you want them to take away the only way a dps thief can survive. sounds like a bunch of cry babies who got their kitten handed to them by thieves.

What is a cry baby when we get you to 80%-90% health and you cowards stealth away.

Fight like a man than you will never hear us cry.

Like the saying goes, “Bravery bring Honor, Cowards bring Disgrace”

-Arena.net designed and supports a Coward Mechanic which Disgraces the Rule of Class Balance-

What a Shame.

If it is so overpowered, then why are you and sanduskel not playing it?

xmtrcv.5236:

Zacchary.6183:

swinsk.6410:

This may be the patch that makes me stop playing thief all together. We will see…

I’m deleting my thief today to free up a character slot.

No!
Stay with us!
Let’s troll together!

Sanduskel.1850:

lol. ok have fun then!

I am. That’s the reason.

I have a legitimate reason to do so.

swinsk.6410:

This may be the patch that makes me stop playing thief all together. We will see…

I’m deleting my thief today to free up a character slot. :3

Sanduskel.1850:

Zacchary.6183:

Oghier.7419:

Sanduskel.1850:

if they were so experienced why did they leave their thieves? many of us still enjoy the class. don’t really get it.

I think many folks have found that it’s a heck of a lot easier to succeed with a heavy class. The path of least resistance is usually the most popular route.

I play my thief instead of my warrior or guard because the thief is more fun. The other two are ‘better’ in the sense that I am more likely to win most engagements, but the thief playstyle is a hoot.

Add to that folks who are quitting thief because of the permastealth nerfs. I’m in the camp that is happy those specs will vanish. They were clearly cheesy and gave all thieves a bad name.

They actually left because thieves can’t contribute anything other than exploits, finishers and spike damage (which is also getting an indirect nerf) combined with the hit to survivability traits.

And before you you even ask, the survivability of a thief relies on their initiative more than stealth. It gives access to evades on command, stealth on command and it’s extension, blinds. But there is nothing a thief has beyond that to soften the blows of other professions. Once our initiative is gone, we lose access to every ability we have on both weapon sets until there is enough initiative to use it.

Our condition removal is complete kitten, pigeonholed into builds that use stealth or sword, and heal scaling is horrible that its much better to gear and spec for damage rather than survivability. So taking so much as a slap is more threatening on a thief than it is on any other profession because we have little to compensate for it (and we do get hit regardless if we are stealthed or not).

None of you understand.

stop exaggerating, lol. thieves are fine and will get stronger in december. Anet said so.

How would you know since you spend more time on the forums trying to destroy a profession than actually playing the game (or the profession for that matter)?

Sanduskel.1850:

Cynz.9437:

Sanduskel.1850:

Cynz.9437:

Arvizal.8436:

I hope an Anst dev sees this!!!!

devs don’t care

they are more busy reading QQ about stealth from clueless people on wvw forums

as for topic: i think it is fine that thieves have low HP, thieves supposed to be squishy but their defensives on dodge/stealth could be really better

you can so easily kill a thief with random spam w/o realizing you actually killed him….

Only baddie thieves die that way, sorry.

with amount of aoe CCs and aoe dmg going on atm….i see every thief dying to that from time to time, doesn’t matter how good they are; even if you don’t run into mark someone else will and you will be affected as well, even if you avoid aoe, you will get pulled into it by something

some of us don’t die to aoe at all. you just need to play smartly. secondly, any buff to thieves isn’t necessarily a good thing. they can op us again and result in more nerfs. I’d rather we let the smoke settle and then see what’s necessary.

Who is this “we”?

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

blakkrskyrr.7413:

maps aren’t designed for mounts.

Maps aren’t designed for a lot of new features that could (possibly) be added to the game. That is no reason to dismiss suggestions for new features. Instead, what you could do is make suggestions on how such a new feature would fit with our current maps, rather than the other way around.

Make more tiny animation skins like the broom.

/problemsolved

Oghier.7419:

Sanduskel.1850:

if they were so experienced why did they leave their thieves? many of us still enjoy the class. don’t really get it.

I think many folks have found that it’s a heck of a lot easier to succeed with a heavy class. The path of least resistance is usually the most popular route.

I play my thief instead of my warrior or guard because the thief is more fun. The other two are ‘better’ in the sense that I am more likely to win most engagements, but the thief playstyle is a hoot.

Add to that folks who are quitting thief because of the permastealth nerfs. I’m in the camp that is happy those specs will vanish. They were clearly cheesy and gave all thieves a bad name.

They actually left because thieves can’t contribute anything other than exploits, finishers and spike damage (which is also getting an indirect nerf) combined with the hit to survivability traits.

And before you you even ask, the survivability of a thief relies on their initiative more than stealth. It gives access to evades on command, stealth on command and it’s extension, blinds. But there is nothing a thief has beyond that to soften the blows of other professions. Once our initiative is gone, we lose access to every ability we have on both weapon sets until there is enough initiative to use it.

Our condition removal is complete kitten, pigeonholed into builds that use stealth or sword, and heal scaling is horrible that its much better to gear and spec for damage rather than survivability. So taking so much as a slap is more threatening on a thief than it is on any other profession because we have little to compensate for it (and we do get hit regardless if we are stealthed or not).

None of you understand.

Nothing scales very well with thief skills and utilities. You’ll get more out of any stat by rolling another profession.

Most of the experienced thief community rerolled a warrior or guardian (ranger if they were masochistic). The only people I see playing thieves are good players and diehards. So if you die to a thief nowadays it’s because you got outplayed.

Sorry.

>:( I wear Red and Silver on my charr warrior.

EDIT: To be technical i am actually using Brick and Scarlet. It’s pretty sweet.

That’s the point.

Most of the QQ that complained about stealth for the past year was overly dramatic. I think it’s our turn to complain.

Fasyx.9347:

stuff

Yeah. No change.

How good a player is is relative. What matters is that you keep getting better.

Sanduskel.1850:

Again, sample size of 1 an anecdotal.

The pot is calling the kettle black again.

xmtrcv.5236:

Zero Day.2594:

xmtrcv.5236:

Stealth (and the benefits gained during) is easily countered by AOEs, channeled spells, melee auto-attacks, and random chance.

OMG !?!? THERS WAYS TO COUNTERZ OP PERMA STLEATHERS!?!?!
NO WAI!! I THOUGHT THAT THEY TOOO OP TO COUNTERZ
I WILL QUIT QQING AND AOE/CHANNEL NEXT TIME I FIGHT A THIEF ANFD L2p

(sarcasm)

Allow me to respond in kind…

Ditto.

Thief has crap heals, crap support, crap armor, 3 crap utility types, two of the crappiest traits in the game, worst range, 1.5 builds, poor damage….

EDIT: Crap condition removal, crap stuns, crap stun breaks…

BUT THEEPHZ HAVE STEALTH AND THEREFORE OHPEE!!!#1two

EDIT2: If it is SO OP then why are you not playing it? And don’t give me any pride/dignity BS.

Does it matter at this point?

dbgamer.3407:

Zacchary.6183:

If players wanted mounts in the first place, players would have bought the broom and drill enough to show that those things are desirable. In turn, arenanet would make more to sell like the infinite tools.

However, that never happened.

Now even though this horse has been beaten way more than the thieves horse and the same arguments have been thrown around for possibly (and literally) the 1000th time I have a question to ask:

What in blue blazes makes you think arenanet is going to change the whole game just so arenanet could make mounts for a minority.

There are at least a couple of flaws I see with this.

First, you think that the number of Broom and Drill sales is exactly equal to the demand for mounts in general? I don’t even know how to explain why this is wrong.

Second, why would ANET have to change the entire game? If the Broom exists, to your example, why could there not be other mounts that function in the exact same way? or in a slightly different way that would require small changes?

Third, where are you getting your statistics around people who want mounts being the “minority”? If this is the 1000th thread, doesn’t that lend some credibility to the fact that maybe there is more demand than you think?

Broom and drill offers no advantages. However people are asking for advantages to these and that is a nogo because it would require a redesign so these mounts don’t turn into pure screen clutter.

And that last statement is called Appealing to the masses.

Malik.6781:

Whoever said devs never play their is wrong.
L2p, this video will help https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLEfsBTh6_A&feature=youtube_gdata_player

“Brand new thief”, “lvl 20”, “use it in PvE” and vid is dated over a month ago (meaning its fairly new). Most of the stuff he stated I already know about.

I am glad that there is at least one dev on the thief but it is apparent that he has not done very much theorycrafting on it. However, he does know what he is doing for the most part.

I hope this dev is passionate about that profession if he claims to like it so much and I hope that he would get a group together filled with truly passionate thief players to discuss the profession in detail.

I don’t enable people in the wrong especially when enabling/ignoring does nothing productive.

That’s not what your post history says.

Spamming the same point all across a single forum.
Not providing any evidence to claims you make.
Halting the progression of a discussion with non-substantiated opinions.

It is fine that you want to be heard but spamming the same point will only make it harder for people (including anet) to care about it.

EDIT: You tend to contradict your words with your actions so that statement is basically a lie.

You’ve derailed this thread more than anything, sand. Nothing legitimate to say other than being purely against “permastealth”. Over 20 people have made it clear that they heard you the first time.

But you play innocent when people call you out.

Why put so much effort in breaking a profession when you can use that energy by being constructive? No you don’t care about this profession and you’ve made is apparent from day 1 dude.

Letting you continue to go offtopic on a serious thread for more than 10 pages only augments my suspicious that what you are doing is entirely okay with the staff.

So no, I don’t think anything you’ve said so far and the handling of this profession by the devs is worth trusting. This is why people stopped playing and why not very many people are going to play this profession in the future.

Chaszyrr, I would like to discuss Jon’s topic further, however sanduskel has been posting nothing of substance by arguing about permastealth which is totally not the point of this update. He has effectively managed to derail this thread for the past 13 pages. I am surprised he isn’t suspended yet. :I

I know I have sent numerous reports about derailment and trolling on his part and every day I still see him posting. I (as well as plenty of others) would like him to either get on track or get out because so far he has not helped in the progression of this thread but in fact has halted it to “permastealth”… over 10 pages of it.

He is talking about Infusion of Shadow which grants you initiative when stealth is applied. Sounds more like initiative gain.

Try again.

Under what evidence?

bestestnoob.3856:

I really hope mounts can be introduce because they would make some peoples gameplay more enjoyable.

Some people, not everyone.

-1 for mounts.

You know they are tweaking initiative regen more than the frequency of stealthing right?

You barely have a basis for your argument because the point of this update is “to make thieves less reliant on initiative gain traits” and not “preventing the abuse of chain stealthing”.

This thread isn’t even about permastealth. You might want to change your argument to something more on topic.

I didn’t figure might into the equation because neither uses it. Without might and vulnerability, those numbers are the numbers I observed while playing my thief and warrior. And yes, I am using all valk on my thief.

I will take your word for that seeing as how I hate speed runs and speed runners with a passion. However, from what I have seen on both of my toons, sword auto has critted up to 8k (most powerful of the set) although that doesn’t happen all of the time while my warrior has managed to crit up to 10k with Kill shot and 8k with eviscerate with other skills hitting up to 6k.

Now I can chain these in rapid succession and still keep a high amount of adrenaline so it’ll be difficult for me to really accept that.

Clumsy.6257:

Zacchary.6183:

My warrior is undergeared and still does more damage than my thief who has a constant 2300 power and equal crit damage.

My warrior also has 3k more HP than my thief however my thief is in full valk with full wurm runes while my warrior is in pure berzerker gear and 30 in tactics.

Just want everyone to know.

this is pretty good, full valk + wurm runes? this tells me your also running a suboptimal build and you wonder why your warrior outdamages your thief… try running a proper build with full berserkers + scholar runes and youll easily double a max buffed warriors damage

Maybe in a couple seconds but not much longer. But then I would have to sacrifice cleave, about half of my hp and the mindlessness of s/x in order to outdps something that isn’t putting much effort to achieve the same effect. Why should I bother with my thief when warriors are the clear winner in this game of numbers?

At least you guys still have kittenloads of viable builds. I just looked that the discussion and you guys are getting trait buffs all around with a 20% damage reduction on 1 weapon set. Most of your traits are amazing already.

I don’t know why you guys are complaining.

EDIT: Like seriously, try playing with overall damage nerfed by 25% with every trait you own not increasing anything more than 5%. THEN you can start complaining.

My warrior is undergeared and still does more damage than my thief who has a constant 2300 power and equal crit damage.

My warrior also has 3k more HP than my thief however my thief is in full valk with full wurm runes while my warrior is in pure berzerker gear and 30 in tactics.

Just want everyone to know.