Guild Wars 2

You should roll a warrior or guardian.

Yishis didn’t adapt that much. If a player uses D/D properly, they wouldn’t need many initiative gain traits because essentially the point of it is to backstab your enemy to death. Yishis did it right as always.

Anyways, another good vid from a very good thief.

o. o
…
Thieves have traps?

Terravos.4059:

Maugetarr.6823:

In tPvP, why would you bring venomshare over a grenade condi-bunker engi? What strength can venomshare bring that an engi couldnt with shorter CDs?

a Single Venom Thief can grant everyone in the group a 5-9 second Immobilize

That’s not including the extra healing and damage, Or the other Venoms.

Give it 2 month’s, I bet you it starts being ran in TPvP

I highly doubt it. Even the new venom isn’t worth slotting unless you completely max out healing and use every venom trait while maintaining an organized group.

Aside from tPvP, nobody is going to care about venomshare. Most thieves hate them anyways.

Sanduskel.1850:

So easy to kill enemies on my thief. Everytime I am in trouble, poof I vanish, heal up, remove conditions and jump right back on the enemy. The enemy swings the sword into thin air. It’s a great class for wvw.

So you’ve met the terribads? Good for you!

Terravos.4059:

I can’t believe people are still arguing Venom builds are bad.

I’m going to bookmark this post for later laughter after the TPvP picks up on the venom build and starts running it and all the sheep on this forum start running it.

And then figure out necros are better.

1.) Noticeable Optimization
2.) Real permanent content
3.) Greater plot influence from choices made in Personal Story
4.) Less ridiculous gem store pricing
5.) Overhaul the thief profession (because 80% of the profession sucks)

Dear Anet,

Please nerf Paper.
Scissors is fine.

Love, Rock.

Revan.4653:

ArenaNet should consider Rewarding the most helpful Forum users. If someone answers to many questions, gives specific links for more information and is passionate to help his gamemates, this person deserves some Gems or other in-game stuff.

You stole my idea. :c

Zero Day.2594:

Nuorus.8415:

Cynz.9437:

…or reroll warrior and have everything heh

Yea I love stealth on my warrior and the clones, also the elements and the spirits, pets and guardian weapons. Love it all on my warrior. The pistols and the staff with the grenades are absolutely epic on WvW. When I jump in zerg I use tornado elite to spin to win! And if I have change to go down I pop up my deathshroud! That’s just epic on WvW!

O.o why do/would you need all that on a warrior… when you’re a warrior…?

Would you like the ability to bind “Win” to a button as well?

Its called Eviscerate.

nagymbear.5280:

You believe that?

Habeeb it!

Here is my thief before Dec 10th and my roster after Dec 10th.

Depths.4051:

Zacchary.6183:

And what should thieves get in return?

A greater sense of caution when you go to backstab someone, cause you might just be forced to see the fight through.

Yeah, this is called a nerf. Basically, you want thieves to be an easier loot bag by making the hardest attack to land even more punishing on a class that has nothing to take the blows.

No. L2P against thieves instead of waiting for mama anet to nerf the profession further.

[/thread]

And what should thieves get in return?

I deleted mine. :3

And you are right. This profession does have diversity. However, does it really matter how much diversity a profession can have when a majority of it’s diversity is outperformed by other professions?

You make good points but you fail to look at the big picture. Other professions can outperform the thief in most aspects of combat which is the frustration plaguing most thieves today. If that wasn’t true, then all those vets would not have shelved their thief.

Interceptor.2653:

Zacchary.6183:

Interceptor.2653:

stuff

I don’t even know why I am arguing with a guy who has less than 2 pages of posts

This is the greatest thread ever. Thief actually has quite a bit of build diversity, and the people who disagree with me have the following retorts:

1) one guy challenges me to a 1v1 to prove that a group-combat spec is not viable, and
2) someone judges my worth as a Thief by measuring how many posts I’ve made on a forum.

I can’t even make this stuff up. Not a single reasonable, objective counter-argument, just “no u”.

There is a reason. Perhaps its because experienced people are tired of telling ignorant to less experienced people, maybe?

Contrary to popular belief, you actually can make stuff up. Bad players have been doing it to get this profession in a hole for the longest time. And look how successful they were.

I am the best thief theorycrafter to refer to.

Not just because of my 1+ years experience and my meticulous journey to get the most out of every trait and utility, but because I have the largest selection of gifs and other stupid pictures.

At least other professions can do more than just skip trash and gank bad players.

I remember alot of thieves looking at their patch notes and their response was this.

Then anet responded maybe once and when Dec 10th hit the only real change that was made was to patch note’s wording.

Nuorus.8415:

stuff

Squishy, as in worst heal scaling. Squishy, as in worst condition removal. Squishy, as in bad stunbreaks. Squishy, as in lack of defensive boons (and don’t give me that “use X runes” bull).

And permastealth does not get you out of situations. Bad enemies do. It isn’t hard to think, “What would I be doing if I was them?” and then immediately countering it especially coming from a profession that plays like a game of simon-says.

Now if this “permastealth” is soooooo powerful, why isn’t every player in the game using it?

Nuorus.8415:

Thieves dies too easy when build such way. Don’t go glass cannon and u will have more survival ability. Any class dies fast if build glass cannon.

Counter to your future arguments: Perma stealth.

Permastealth makes a thief completely useless and they still die quickly.

Would like “Dodge = Remove 1 Condition” before “Dodge = +1 initiative”.

Warrior doesn’t need any more damage.

v They don’t need more condition removal either. Cleansing Ire + adrenaline building makes condition cleansing easy.

Living Story would be awesome if they didn’t delete the content they added.

It must be nice getting drops > 1g.

I am going to expect nothing tangible since their track record has pushed my bar of expectations that low.

Make venoms create an AoE at the thief’s feet. Also make a few of them combo fields.

[/problem]
[/venomssucking]

frans.8092:

Zacchary.6183:

Don’t get me wrong, venomshare works. It’s just that it is situational and something I would not want to change my entire build for.

As theorycrafter, is there no venomshare thinkable that could work – with changing traits but not the distribution – with P/D? They both focus on conditions, venomshare requires 30 SA, but so does P/D. The compromise would be around how deep you want to go into Deadly Arts vs Trickery/Acrobatics.

Venoms suck. Period.

It is nice that that you and your friends can put all of these conditions on targets. However the thief is better at stacking AoE bleeds, dealing damage, maintaining survivability and chasing targets with non-venom d/d condition builds.

Maybe if they took venomous aura out of SA and put it into DA at master level, then MAYBE I would have a more flexible opinion.

Interceptor.2653:

stuff

I don’t even know why I am arguing with a guy who has less than 2 pages of posts that sugarcoat one of the worst professions in this game. It’s like trying to sell a shiny lemon to the same guy who sold it to you last week.

That’s real cool that its “excellent” in an “organized group setting”. Now what about PUGs, 1v1, Solo roam, solo bossing, fractals, dungeons and sPvP? It needs a group so we have PUGs, Fractals, Dungeons, WvW and sPvP. But wait, the group needs to be organized as well, so we just have Fractals, Dungeons, WvW and sPvP.

It sucks in more than half of the game. But if you seriously believe that venomshare is as great as you think it is, then by all means, test it in a disorganized group or solo setting. You’ll quickly find that venoms are not as great as you believe they are.

EDIT: Oh I forgot, Venomshare almost never has stunbreaks or condition cleanse so it’s viability is killed for sPvP and WvW. Looks like all you have left is Fractals and Dungeons, bud. Venomshare sounds like it doesn’t really do very well in most situations. :I

Warrior because faceroll! :3

Interceptor.2653:

Arganthium.5638:

Also, Venom Share is still going to be kinda sucky overall, IMO.

Nonsense. Venomshare — like all builds — has to put it into a position to succeed. If you’re in small group combat where people are fairly disciplined, it’s extraordinarily useful. Everyone talks about Residual Venom, but the real money is in Leeching Venoms and Venomous Strength.

Zacchary.6183:

That’s the keyword… “Functional”.

No, the key word is this one, from your post:

me

If your standard is “best and only the best for XYZ situation”, that’s cool. However, balance in WvW or otherwise is more than just one aspect; builds are about tradeoffs, and acceptable results. None of the “non-viable” builds are so far behind that they fail to perform.

My standard is: “Does it work in most situations?”

And Venomshare does not. It works in organized group settings but beyond that it’s useless. Venoms overall are crap requiring most of the traits associated with it (about 5) for anyone to even consider slotting one.

There is no way you can convince players that venomshare is any better than it has been due to the simple fact that venoms suck in general. And as a theorycrafter, it is my duty to inform newb thieves that they are going to have a hard time with them. That and just about every thief theorycrafter is going to say venoms suck up and down the thief forums.

Don’t get me wrong, venomshare works. It’s just that it is situational and something I would not want to change my entire build for.

Interceptor.2653:

Zacchary.6183:

So a sub-par set becomes a little more sub-par. […] Venomshare was never a good thing to begin with. […] d/p is gimmicky and unless you go for damage this set is best for trolling. […] p/d is a weak condition build […]
I do agree with SB though. It is way better than p/x.

Thanks for demonstrating exactly what I was talking about WRT people with very specific definitions of “viable”. All of those builds are perfectly functional in WvW; i.e. you can use them and carve out successes for yourself.

That’s the keyword… “Functional”. Almost any build can be “Functional” in WvW, however that doesn’t necessarily mean that it is going to perform as well as anything else.

They may be functional but that doesn’t mean I can’t find something else that will give me better results with the same amount of effort.

Interceptor.2653:

Very misplaced thread. Thieves on the whole are actually in a fairly decent place right now, in terms of build diversity. S/P is back, venomshare is now a legit thing, D/P has always been good, P/D is gimmicky but effective, and Shortbow remains good even after a year and a half of nothing but nerfs.

I guess that this is a situation where “viable” has some tight, unwavering definition known only to the OP.

I think you are overesteeming a little bit.

s/p is THE non-stealth tank setup, however all sword builds got a big hit with the Shadow Return change. So a sub-par set becomes a little more sub-par.

Venomshare was never a good thing to begin with. Yes, we can now slot 6 venoms and get 12 might but we can also slot 4 signets, get 20 might and be more effective then venomshare.

d/p is gimmicky and unless you go for damage this set is best for trolling. Less so due to the initiative gain nerfs.

p/d is a weak condition build compared to d/d. It is probably the only build that purely got a buff. However that does not make it any closer to being on par with d/d conditions.

I do agree with SB though. It is way better than p/x.

Ninski.5680:

http://i.imgur.com/uSDkBDK.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/TVvS0oy.jpg
1 button class hard mkay

I see 3 buttons used on a zerker. Nice try.

I think players can report them for Verbal Abuse at that point. Perhaps it would reduce the # of toxic players from being toxic.

I updated for proper maffz.

I’ll bring my charr and stand there for the lulz.

What: Thief tree oxygen
Why: Oxygen is permastealth and can’t see it EVER.

Final Thrust does not need a buff. If arenanet went through with your changes it would make final thrust another backstab with a higher coefficient and less required setup. Then there will be absolutely no reason to play a thief aside from crafting.

Venomshare is a build that exists to give the thief that “support role” feel every profession is supposed to have even though venoms are sub-par support.

Sniping Rifle thief > wtfbbq scythe thief

Best crafting profession is best at crafting.

We should also have:

Elves
R(AIDS)
Pandas
Gear Check
Recount
and ****loads of quests requiring us to go kill/find X amounts of items/npcs and go/bring it back to the guy who gave you the quest.

and Death Knights
and trinity

Forgot a few lol

If you purely like the initiative system, then just try to do with the new s/p meta or d/d. Otherwise, you are better off with something else.

If you are having problems with shadowstep then let me tell you a good way to counter it….

The whole point of it is avoidance. To counter it all you need to do is get close to their Shadow Return spot. By closing the gap, the thief will have to reposition itself away from you to make shadow return effective again.

Maybe if players stopped complaining about thieves, arenanet’s papers would start showing that thieves aren’t as much of a problem. Then thieves would actually start getting nice things and the whole profession wouldn’t be forced to play d/d to be completely viable. Afterwards you will start seeing less permastealth and backstabs because everything thieves have complained about in regards to their profession finally gets fixed.

At least you came to the forums in a rational fashion.

HS doesn’t need a fix. Interrupting and dodging will make HS burn his initiative up. Afterwards, you can start melting him.

They should just reduce the gem price of everything and then remove the gem conversion. That kind of stuff can be bad for an MMO anyways.

Stx.4857:

Yes, please don’t nerf Warriors. I am having too much fun on my new alt with 20k HP 2500 armor regening 550 HP per second baseline in zerker gear!

Me too. I am messing around with everything and am currently theorycrafting on a Longbow/Banner warrior. I am calling it, The Bowner Build.