Guild Wars 2

Finally I am off of this kitten suspension. HERE WE GO!!! >:D

Instead of doing the whole copy/paste template, I am going to just list them because I have limited writing space and an hour long flood control.

Venoms
Passive: Inflict X(Y seconds) every Z attacks.
Active: Place corresponding combo field at player’s feet that causes X(1s) every pulse.

Why: Because venoms completely suck outside of venomshare, there are way too many traits for one utility (specially since that utility sucks) and it adds to the pidgeonholing this class is suffering from.

Hard To Catch
Stun Breaker. Shadowsteps away from all hostiles.

Why: Arguably the worst trait in the game if not the worst. It does not break stun in addition to the chance that you won’t move or get sent into the enemy further (because of RNG shadowstepping).

Fleet of Foot
Removes 1 condition on dodge. No cooldown.

Why: Because it would open up less stealth intensive builds and thus increase diversity drastically.

Every 5% trait
Damage boosted to 10%. Gains these extra abilities:
- Power Shots: Short Bow and Harpoon Gun attacks 33% chance to cause Cripple(2s) on hit. 5s CD
- Dagger Training: 10% chance on crit to gain 1 initiative.
- Combined Training: 10% chance on crit to gain 1 initiative.

Why: Because 5% is nothing. That’s 50 points of damage on a power build. You are scrapping utility for 50 points of damage. Seriously…

Assassin’s Reward, Potent Poison, Venomous Strength, Leeching Venoms, Last Refuge
Remove and save space for rifle traits and traits to boost utilities like traps and tricks. :3

Why: Venom traits need to get shaved as well as buffed. Weak skills + strong and numerous traits = poor design. Also Last Refuge isn’t noob friendly.

Traps
Now have charges that places the traps on cooldown once charges are used up. Kinda like mantras.

Why: Because nobody uses traps outside of Shadow Trap. -20% CD does not make me want to use traps because they still have too high of a CD after the fact.

Master Trapper
Switch with Flanking Strikes. Traps have an extra charge.

Why: Because ^

Quick Recovery, Patience
Reduce Interval to 5 seconds.

Why: Because a 300% increase is WAY too much. The dec 10th made them near worthless.

Slowed Pulse
Removes bleeding and grants regen.

Why: 2+ bleeds cancel out the regen. “BUT IT MITIGATES BLEEDING!!” <—— My reaction.

Improvisation
Stealing recharges one utility type you currently have equiped.

Why: Cuz heavy RNG in a skill sux m’kay.

Rifle
Thieves will now have access to them.

Why: Because predator and Gift of Stealth.

k im done

I already got one.
Next Weapon Set: Rifle

Aza.2105:

This is a very misleading. You are asking for thief survivability to be buffed for compensation. But what you don’t realize is that a zerker thief has the highest survivability out of any zerker class, this includes the heavy classes like warrior and guardian as well.

The question is how can that be? Stealth and blinds. Not being hit is the best form of mitigation. If stealth was nerfed the compensation is for thief players to pick up a defensive trinket like cleric, soldier etc if they want to survive. This is what every other class has to do, why should thief be any different?

That is funny. No, thief has very little “mitigation”. Mitigation is a lessening of severity. What thief has to rely on is “Avoidance” but the difference here is that mitigation works all of the time while avoidance doesn’t. If avoidance fails, thieves suffer the full effects of the attack and must deal with it.

You take full damage in stealth and still suffer from conditions. The visual effect is what keeps you from getting hit so long as the enemy isn’t competent. Yes you can remove 1 condition every three seconds while in stealth but guess what, that’s the best we get.

Warrior can remove all conditions in 40 seconds or 3 in ~6 seconds, even get near immunity to a few. They got blocks, invulns, plenty of passive HPS, a utility that buffs vitality and toughness on top of having the highest base Health and armor the game provides. They can even take advantage of Superior Runes of the Soldier for even more mitigation.

And Warriors have been nerfed once… once. Why should every other profession be any different?

Leger.3724:

Zacchary.6183:

There actually is counter to stealth, its is called knowledge.

Another weak argument.

Essentially you’re throwing out platitudes and hoping everyone buys it. I don’t.

There is no counter to stealth, it’s the best damage mitigator in the game and only two classes have access to it (with one having crazy amounts of access to it). Ridiculous.

How about this? Give Rangers who trait hard the ability to one shot thieves. If they don’t dodge it – too bad, so sad. Knowledge.

The problem here is the ANet team doesn’t know how to calculate just how much mitigation stealth provides – it’s clear that the amount is large though.

The fact that you call it mitigation shows how little* you know. And I do not pity you for your plight, nor does any other thief.

Well actually you’ll be able to call it mitigation on the 15th, it just won’t be the best.

Leger.3724:

Zacchary.6183:

Burnfall.9573:

Sanduskel is not new, he speaks the truth and shares his knowledge, ideals and the truth of his class: thief to the masses. He refuses the abuse of wrongdoings and exposes them, in return, he is ridiculed and insulted for it.

" Knowledge is Power but when it is abused, it is no longer Power, it is Ego "

" The Truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, Ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is "

The Truth

Of course he is not new. He has been derailing threads in the thief forum since he started posting about half a year ago. But ego or not, knowledge > hearsay. And hearsay is all anyone who has ever complained about thieves ever had.

They are just a bunch of screaming kids throwing a tantrum because they got killed “unfairly”.

So much skill involved in pressing a button, going invisible and taking advantage of that fact. So much skill. Button pressed. Skill.

Stealth is the only mechanic in this game without a legitimate counter. You can work around stealth but there is no way to counter it.

There actually is counter to stealth, its is called knowledge.

Burnfall.9573:

Sanduskel is not new, he speaks the truth and shares his knowledge, ideals and the truth of his class: thief to the masses. He refuses the abuse of wrongdoings and exposes them, in return, he is ridiculed and insulted for it.

" Knowledge is Power but when it is abused, it is no longer Power, it is Ego "

" The Truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, Ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is "

The Truth

Of course he is not new. He has been derailing threads in the thief forum since he started posting about half a year ago. But ego or not, knowledge > hearsay. And hearsay is all anyone who has ever complained about thieves ever had.

They are just a bunch of screaming kids throwing a tantrum because they got killed “unfairly”.

Sanduskel.1850:

Lol. Is Columbai a new title or insult? Like padawan or grasshopper? Can’t keep up with the interwebs lingo, lol

My point stands. Stealth allows heavy dps AND great defenses.

You’re point is actually invalid. The only time stealth provides “great defense” is when the player its being used against doesn’t know anything about it. Otherwise its just visual manipulation, something mesmer can do just as well if not better.

Regardless, knowledge is power and those who complain about stealth usually don’t have enough.

LordByron.8369:

If i had a gold for every player trying to kill an invisible thief

I would be at least 10 times richer than hayashi.

Many don t even try no more..since its like winning the lottery (thief can evade in stealth and is healing also probably).

If it was like the lottery I would probably be at least as rich as bill gates by now. Thats all because I main it and know how it works.

To the comment below,

Those videos shows its not that hard to kill bad players with a thief. Now, if players actually got on one themselves and played it till 80 and then some, all of that hearsay will slowly degrade into the BS it really is because during that time you start understanding the profession’s weaknesses.

This is something that thieves have been saying since they started spamming “L2P”: Play the kitten profession if its so OP/broken.

That’s what thieves have wanted for the past year. Humor us for once.

But just a tip before you do. Use d/d conditions (DB + caltrops) and bleed them all to death. The build doesn’t allow for any stationary movement making the chance for a successful backstab almost 0%. The constant dodging will make any spam they use ineffective. And it is the best form of AoE bleeding (weakness you will soon know about) in the game providing constant stacks of bleeding and cripple that thieves will not be able to clear easily.

After you guys “L2P”, look back at all of the videos showing thieves killing people and watch those who are dying. You will start seeing all the things they didn’t do and eventually come to the conclusion that they were more than likely bad.

Again we ask you to just play one and see for yourself.

Arkantos.7460:

truth

And I would do that lickety-split if anet would just lift my hour flood control and inability to make posts. ;D

In all seriousness though, I would. Starting out as a thief, I saw all of the crying that came from fighting stealth users and did my best to find decent builds that did not use stealth. There were very few since the plethora of bad traits and skills cornered thieves build-wise.

Post after post of good ideas and concepts fell on deaf ears. So eventually I decided to go along with their plan of pushing stealth builds and suggested some “on revealed” traits.

Now I am here wondering why those went through and not my many other ideas.

(hello??? RIFLES?! VENOM PASSIVES?! MANTRA-LIKE TRAPS?! SOMETHING MORE IMPACTING THAN 5% EXTRA DAMAGE TRAITS?!?! CUTTING THE OVERPOWERED TRAITS FOR CRAPPY UTILITIES AND REPLACING THEM WITH MORE USEFUL STUFF?! PLEASE?!?!)

You completed the game. Congratulations.

Assassin’s were renamed to thief because Steal. Steal is only reason why thieves are thieves!

The music, the first two weeks I played this game and Tybalt.

The rest of it is overhyped.

Setting my expectations for this game at higher than “sea level”. I somehow keep doing it.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Obviously their crystal ball tuned directly to your personal wants is faulty and they’re picking up someone else’s interest. They should calibrate that.

Apparently, since thieves have been screaming “Venoms suck without using 50 trait points” and “Half of our traits are underwhelming, useless or detrimental” and not only did they give us another venom but they moved Hard to Survive down to Master.

dylan.5409:

Sry but traps are terrible, soon to be worse with the possibility of 50% damage reduction while stealthed.

That only applies to normal damage. Conditions still melt thieves. hint hint

NinjaEd.3946:

I understand we’re in the thief sub-forum but the title says “Nerf wish list”. Why so much hate for thieves? Can we point fingers at the person next to us or is it frowned upon?

BUTT THIF BUTKAYPZ OHPEE

MAD CAT.9321:

legendaries are ugly

What: Theef buttcapes
Why: Theef only class that don’t look like crap with a buttcape.

“Hope is comforting. It allows us to accept fate, no matter how tragic it might be.”

~Yunalesca, Final Fantasy X

So that we don’t have multiple posts saying the same things with different wording I am going to issue multiple choice for both sides based on the general issues they bring up.

1.) I want mounts because:

a.) Immersion.
b.) Reasons.
c.) Mount haters don’t have legitimate reasons.
d.) so easy to do!
e.) THEY have mounts. (points to other MMOs)

2.) I don’t want mounts because:

a.) waypoints already exist, so no point in having mounts.
b.) extra screen clutter.
c.) possibility of griefing with mounts.
e.) this isn’t every other MMO
f.) unfair advantage with speed boost.

Choose your poison.

Remove legendaries from the game.

[/problem]

Bumping this because want.

GET ON YOUR TINFOIL HATS FOLKS! I’m gonna stab at this mounts bubble.

Realist.5812:

Stop making these stupid threads.

By the way, there is nothing cool about mounts.

uknortherner.2670:

Oh, for Grenth’s sake…

uknortherner.2670:

You have the broom. There’s your mount.

These three posts have the most thumbs in the shortest amount of time. And the first two are the first and second replies. Compared to the other posts this shows that more people are against the idea as well as the thread itself than for it.

The first 2 mounts (technically animation skins) were a broom and a drill. Like the first Molten Pickaxe, this was a test to see how popular a mount-like object would be and how well it would sell in GW2. Granted they intentionally made them small because they couldn’t predict the amount of buyer for them as well as the amount of strain these players would put on the game if most of them had them out at once. However, unlike the Molten Pickaxe the broom didn’t sell as well. There were not alot of people seen using the broom and and even less people using the drill while the molten pickaxe became a common occurrence. The numbers of players seen using them has dropped ever since.

This at least shows that the players who want mounts are really just a small minority using resources to design mounts would not be profitable.

Another thing I have noticed are the methods of counterargument amongst those for mounts. The biggest tactic being:

“moving the goal post” where one side dismisses evidence given by demanding greater evidence thereby invalidating someone’s point(s). This is just one of the examples:

There is literally no legitimate reason why we can’t have mounts.

I’m indifferent, but all these ‘reasons’ sum upto, ‘Every other game has mounts, and Guildwars2 doesn’t need them because everyone else has one’.

Not only is this counterproductive to coming to a conclusion but it also shows that this is a one-way argument. “Either you give us mounts or we get mounts” basically.

If anything is to be resolved BOTH SIDES have to compromise. However, it won’t be anywhere near a 50/50 split.

I am not going to relist the reasons previous posters from previous threads previously posted and the repercussions they describe because the OP, like previous OPs before him, will not consider them.

Therefore I post this.

Also this.

Have stuns work like Revealed. If you get stunned and get hit/stunlocked while stunned, you gain Grounded (or w/e) for 3-4 seconds (like Stability sept it can’t be removed) instead.

[/problem]

v Because if a hammer train keeps pounding its going to produce the same effect as what it’s doing now to a slightly lesser degree.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

/no

Thief/Ele is best weaponset.

Ferocity, condition damage, Boon duration.

Useless Emblazoned Coat of the Useless!

:D

This is.

As long as they don’t touch my meat they are fine.

If you kill them you are OP. That is how it works.

Coloxeus.3480:

Zacchary.6183:

Legendaries are ugly.

Lies.

OMG MY EYES ARE BURNING!! TOO MUCH UGLY!!

Legendaries are ugly.

WTT in stealth passives for more On Revealed actives.

We do have a blowgun. Its called p/x. Its a gun that blows.

RedSpectrum.1975:

What are you guy’s opinions on Tengu thieves by the way? Just curious? As for OP, area cc is your answer

Tengu thieves sound delicious to my Charr warrior.

If you are downed, you are normally dead afterwards so it wouldn’t matter either way.

Renny.6571:

stuff

1.) Yup. At least I don’t have to wait ~35 seconds for a gap closer when I have weapon skills. Much shadowstep. Very mobiliteez. Wow.

2.) You can also use your clones and phantasms as meat shields, diversions and a source of constant regen. Perhaps even support them with mantra builds. Ever thought of that? That is called utility.

Build adrenaline to 3 bars, use Flurry, cancel early, beat the crap out of them while they are immobilized. Build adrenaline, Fire combustive shot, plant a banner (or do some other blast finisher) in fire field for AoE might. That is called utility.

As for ranger, yeah all of them are fire-and-forgets, sept it isn’t like steal which is “press F1 to omgwtfbbq your target and gain an item”. Using it requires as much brainpower as playing a warrior. Thieves do not want to be crappy warriors.

My point is in bold.

3.) Lol there is no such thing as build diversity for venoms. Slotting one venom without heavily traiting for it is about as useful as Assassin Signet’s active. That 15% damage is the equivalent to about 190-200 power on a power build but you lose it in kittens.

Gulesave.5073:

highly circumstantial.

Keywords here. The more circumstantial something is, the less people are going to use it. That’s why thieves have 7 traits for venoms. Because venoms suck. That’s why thieves have the most powerful signet trait in the game. Because signets are almost a waste of a slot. That’s why steal has 9 traits for it. Because it doesn’t really do much for the thief besides make it a thief.

Renny.6571:

Zacchary.6183:

Pvpers do and they say it because a profession that relies heavily on utility could use more utility. And right now steal barely has any. It is a simple Fire-and-Forget mechanic that solely exists to turn thieves into thieves.

Did you miss the part where steal is an instant gap close, boon sharing/stripping machine that dazes and regenerates initiative? Not to mention the stolen skill extremely useful (bar engi). That’s enough utility for a single skill. It’s only a ‘fire-and-forget’ skill to the bad thieves, but in the hands of a good player it’s extremely devastating.

You know what else is a gap closer?

Heartseeker, Infiltrator’s signet, Infiltrator’s arrow, Infiltrator Strike, Shadowstep, Shadow Shot, Shadow Pursuit and Scorpion Wire. Each of them has multiple uses (aka utility).

Steal (untraited) is a gap closer that places an item in your “pocket”. This item is single use and can perform simple actions like granting boons or inflicting conditions etc. (aka fire-and-forget).

What annoys me about it is that there are so many traits that could be used to enhance it that doing so would turn it from a gap closer that grants you a random item into a Daze, healing, damage, stealth + blind, rip boons a/o gain fury/might/vigor/swiftness/initiative on one button. Its like our underwhelming signets traited into might access or venoms that suck worse than our traps until you have venomshare?

Like who would care about what steal/venoms/signets do when they can do all this other crap.

Why have them then?

Renny.6571:

Gulesave.5073:

The Steal mechanic is underused by many players due to the lack of control over the results.

lol wut. Steal from any class and you know exactly what you’re gonna get. Besides, 30 trickery and you have aoe 10sec might/fury/swiftness, 2 boon strip which prioritizes stab+aegis and is aoe shared, a daze and +2 initiative all in a gap closer, no animation instant cast skill every 20 seconds. No decent PvPer would ever say it needs a buff.

Pvpers do and they say it because a profession that relies heavily on utility could use more utility. And right now steal barely has any. It is a simple Fire-and-Forget mechanic that solely exists to turn thieves into thieves.

I have a feeling stealth is going to be used more after this upcoming patch. Even thieves who try to play with minimal stealth will probably use it now.

It sucks but hey, thieves kinda needed it. This update might actually help produce more viable builds and god knows thieves need some.

pulseunit.8296:

I demand two helmets.

Dual shields for my guard too!

Did you come up with this idea yourself or did you steal mine?

Renny.6571:

Offhand pistol thieves do perma daze better than mesmers. Not sure what you’re talking about man.

1/4 second x3 is not permadaze

WTB -1 button.

McFribble.2349:

Zacchary.6183:

Read this and you’ll understand why.

This article has to be one of the most misused articles to be posted. If the general complaint were people refusing to play stealth characters and whining about losing, then it would have more merit.

However, the argument is wither stealth classes are balanced and in need of changes. Sorry, but an article about players putting themselves at a disadvantage due to personal in game morals means Jack all for balance issues.

I use Sirlin references because the thief QQ usually follows a specific template:

OP: OMFG THEEF KIL ME N 2 HITZ NERF STELF!!!1!!one

Thief 1: You can easily survive and counter that by doing X, Y and Z.

OP: BUT HEALING/CONDITION REMOVAL/CAN’T TARGET/BLINDSPAM/PERMASTEALTH!!!

Thief 1: Yes but in reality > educated response.

Thief 2: If thieves are so overly powerful, why are you not playing one?

Fail Troll: I have 5 thiefs and I don’t permastelf.

OP: Becoz thif no skil 2 play and chezy az kitten

Zacchary (or some equally annoying person): http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/intermediates-guide.html

Random player 1: Someone else thinks thefz are OP. Therefore they are OP.

Random player 2: Thieves are free kills for me. Lol.

Everyone repeats themselves with ignorant hearsay and grammatically subpar flaming.

So yeah it is very relevant.

Kill Evon Gnashblade, his staff and then burn down every building he owns.

[/problem]

Read this and you’ll understand why.

There is nothing to refute because it really is a Learn-to-Play issue. If don’t want to spend a week learning about the profession that keep killing you for the sheer sake of pride, then you deserve your loses.

And that goes with everything in life. Time to learn dude.

I don’t feel like waiting to make another post to reply to burny so I will just edit:

Apparently there is alot to learn since you guys keep getting killed by them while others consider them walking lootbags. You can disagree all you want but eventually you’ll have to do something about your problem instead of waiting for anet to fix it.

Here is some sage advice…

God can give you an easy button, but you’ll still have to press it.

In a sense, thieves will be glad to give you all as much advice and training as possible. But they will not help if you don’t put forth any effort.

Nobody is simply going to hand anyone everything they want.

Ok I am necroing this thread in organize spoiler-type fashion.

DeWolfe.2174:

execullent.8560:

Why do you hate thieves ? ?

Are you KIDDING??? They are the Golden Child profession! Daddy Dev (you should know which) has been keeping you king of the 1v since launch. Aww… so your no real skill required spammable BS (literally and figuratively) and HS are getting reduced? Thieves should be getting a 30% reduction in BS and HS, not a measly 10%! Wow, so 6k becomes a 5k.

Thieves have been such bull in WvW since launch. How much consumer backlash is required before Anet fixes it has been my question.

Travlane.5948:

You realize 1v1 has no place in wvw…no place in any format. so we are strong in something that has no relevance

Please tell this to every player ganked while running to a camp. Or, coming out of spawn in the south of the BL’s, especially Lake.

Because the players who keep getting ganked by thieves never use situational awareness or common sense when fighting them. That’s what happens when you zerg all of the time. You become braindead, only paying attention to the chat or the map for the blue dorito. Then suddenly “from out of nowhere” the thief who was following you for the past 3 minutes drops you.

Its not because they are super permastealth ninjas, its because players are acting like neanderthals. Something as simple as “situational awareness” in any pvp environment is almost REQUIRED to survive and situational awareness requires a player’s full attention.