Guild Wars 2

Profession Nicknames

Opie
Opie
Opie
Opie
Opie
Opie
Opie
Opie

#doublemeanings

You know, pvp is competitive.

If you don’t want to get killed by players who actually try, then play with your friends and play with them only. Because in a competitive game mode nobody will care if you just want to do a few friendly duels or just get a few points.

I have done grenth at least 100 times since I started playing. At one point, I could solo him on my thief because I whittled the tactics down to 5 pieces of instruction. I normally post them in map chat when I see a group heading for the temple:

Stay off stairs, kite and DO NOT ATTACK shades, focus on grenth with ranged, Stay away from medium circles and WAYPOINT IF DED

Now there are defiant people thinking I am an elitist blowing smoke out my butt. The elitist part maybe true but I really just like to see people cooperate and coordinate. If someone tries to defy my instructions by commanding everyone to concentrate on shades then I will explain why:

The shades will keep respawning even if you kill them. They attack fast and their attacks hit in an area. You get more corruption while in grenth’s realm.

If you engage them, the fight will take longer and your chances of wiping gradually increase.

Killing grenth will get rid of them faster.

This is when the prideful players get hurt and say “lol idiot”, “kitten”, etc.

This hurts me, as an experienced player, to hear that my experience doesn’t count for crap. So I proceed to antagonize the people who won’t listen.

Just recently, I made a few commanders look like fools because all three were telling everyone to kill the shades and I, being the complete kitten that I am said things like:

KILL THE SHADES HARDER MAYBE GRENTH WILL CRY HIMSELF TO DEATH

Those shades are a kitten, aren’t they?

and

Well that sucks. Third time’s a charm, eh? :P

On the third try, a small group actually listened to me. They were also the last ones to die that attempt and managed to get grenth down to 50% while everyone was waiting for a res. A few minutes after the event failed, morale was crap. So I stepped in and said:

You guys want to listen to me now?

I got plenty of trolls telling me to f off. But I went to go spectate for one last time to see if they would. And they did. Grenth slowly melted and the whole ordeal was over in about 15 minutes with minimum deaths.

Experience > commander tag

Sirlin should be read and quizzed before any game playing is had.

Kill him faster.

Yup. Anet took a step in right direction but they still have alot of improvements to work on.

If this was taken around Dec 10th 2013, thief happiness would have sharply dropped. No doubt about that.

Ashen.2907:

Devata.6589:

I do say I think that is better explaining why. Some say they don’t think it’s better. Thats just as much of an assertion.

No, it isnt just as much of an assertion. A statement of fact is a more forceful assertion than a statement of opinion.

Devata.6589:

Anyway this is a great way to try is destroy a discussion. Asking for data you know is almost impossible to get and then state you don’t have to provide any yourself.

If I am not making an assertion there is nothing to support with facts.

Devata.6589:

And if you then really want data then somebody just listed a nice chart. That is the best data we have so far (if it’s valid) and seems to proof my point as much as possible. So there is your data.

https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/151443/1q14_NCSoft.jpg

Now if you want to continue the discussion give your idea’s and logic. Then you would really add useful information to the thread.

According to that chart the game relying on a cash shop rather than paid expansions makes more money.

What if we had expansions AND a cash shop?

Bumping this topic because awesome.

I love how the general thief complaints changed from 13k backstab to resetting fights all the time.

Apparently those nerfs are working.

@ LB

As long as you keep making excuses for yourself, thieves are going to keep saying L2P and posting sirlin.

Because that is what the problem is.

A well-learned thief can get on another profession and kill another thief. Why don’t you follow suit?

@ Ricky

That’s a step in the right direction. Sarcasm or not. :P

Just so I don’t have to wait 53 minutes for flood control to go away, I will answer the post below here:

Yes, its hilarious that the same people blindly attacking the thief profession are going to other forums to complain there, with the same attitude and approach I might add.

But regardless if you need excuses you still use them.

Thief gameplay is more punishing than other professions simply because they are forced to manage their skills and escapes carefully in real time instead of paying attention to a rotation. They can’t simply burn every skill on one weapon and then switch to another for more. Once initiative is gone you lose access to 8 weapon skills all at once, not just one.

Then there is passive defenses. Thieves have to steal aegis and protection. All everyone else has to do is apply it. Yes there is -50% damage taken in stealth but we have to burn at least half of our initiative or one utility to get a few seconds of it. Initiative and time that could be used to kill you faster.

And that “Oh but then I have to use my skills!!!” is a bullkitten excuse. You have an auto attack. It is free. Spam 1, keep moving and watch your auto attack progress. If you are using ranged, use your toon’s head as a reticle and start aiming. If your attack won’t hit without a target, then use an attack that will.

Maybe they are getting stomped because they really are noobs? Ever think about that?

Don’t bring a profession down because players can’t even fathom that thieves just might be different than your average gw2 profession. That kind of thinking ruined american schooling with that No Child Left Behind crap. Please don’t bring it into this game.

ricky.2679:

Why do you need to read Zacchary? Because you like all the other players in this thread cherry pick information from my post to suit yourself. Try searching Burnfall.9573 posts. He has been posting for a year about how thieves dominate all other classes and he hasn’t given up. Maybe you could learn something about class balance from the rangers?

Burnfall. Lol. And you wonder why I “cherrypicked”.

No, Burnfall is a troll who posts nothing but overly dramatic comments that do not contribute to any topic ever. “muh justices!” At least he is not as horrible as Sanduskel, who only ever said “permastealth is OP. I should know because I have 5 thief alts lel”.

Its like they do that on purpose just to kitten the thief pop off. And the sad part is they are successful only because everyone knows that anet is going to listen to them more than the thief community. Always the same crap every day and nothing is being done about it.

So really, why should I care what anything past the first post should be when I already know what everyone is going to say? I don’t.

I can tell by your first post that you are not looking for a discussion but really just want opinions to confirm your’s. That turns this into a nice little anti-thief magnet where everyone comes here to say, “Yeah thief killed me too! They are op!” while it also attracts anti-anti-thief like myself who come here to “troll” and “cherrypick” with their L2Ps. Lol opposite poles!

In my honest opinion, this thread is just flame bait because everyone knows where it’s going to lead. If I was a mod, I would be locking these kinds of topics on the spot because all it does is incite circlejerks and flame. But I am not and they don’t.

EDIT: Just to stay on topic. No thieves do not need a nerf, players need to be more aware and smart about managing their skills. Or they could play an OP thief for themselves. Whatever.

But what is kittening people off is the gem<—>gold exchange. That alone is making them feel anet has intentionally made RNG a massive pain in the kitten so that you would get desperate and simply buy the gold.

That is sleazy.

Why do I have to read anything when they are the same zealous arguments from a year ago?

The people who complain about thieves are as bad as the players who beg for mounts. They WANT something SO BAD that they fail to even consider what the consequences will be.

Remember the Dec. 10th update? Thanks to everyone’s constant complaining, Anet nerfed overall initiative gain by 1/3 causing a large portion of thieves to drop their profession. But apparently nobody checked their math except the thief community because for some reason anet tried saying it was a “MASSSIVE buff”. And that attitude only kittened the thief community off more. So they either shelved or deleted their thief and joined in the hammer train because they knew they were going to have fun…

That was only a taste. So to redeem themselves, anet decided to give thieves On-Revealed abilities (my idea) and -50% damage taken in stealth. It was enough to get a small portion of the old thief community back but most of them are staying on other professions. Smart.

Think about what would happen if anti-thief got their way.

If we looked back at all of those QQ topics and went through with them, Thief would be a walking lootbag and a waste of coding because nobody sept for idiots and die-hards would play one. Thief would become useless in almost every game mode because stealth wouldn’t do a kitten thing except reveal you on hit. Thief would be reduced to autoattacking and running because at this point stealth would be pointless to use and teleports, evasion and blinds couldn’t be spammed to maintain defenses. Everyone on one would again either shelve or delete it, except this time it would be more permanent.

All because players want to see the profession die.(coughlordbyroncough).

But please continue to do so so I can come back on here after the fact and say I was right.

EDIT: And yeah, I will come back to rub it in player’s faces.

Then give us survivability elsewhere or no deal.

> Stealth keeps us from dying to bad players who can’t aim their ranged autos and stand still when stealth pops.
> Shadowstepping helps us maintain positioning outside AoE/Condition spam before the AoE/Condition spam kills us. And thieves have the worst condition cleanse.
> Evades only work so much. Good timing on attacks and positioning will bypass them.
> Blinds are easily removed and avoided.
> Thieves heal scaling is the worst in the game. You will almost NEVER see a thief take it outside of SA.
> Thieves have one block and no access to defensive boons aside from regen. Of course we have to steal it or get it from other sources. “Thief”… hello?
> Initiative is a lifeline regardless if it allows for spam. You run out of initiative, you die faster.
> About 50% of all thief traits and utilities are situational or worse. Hard To Catch is the worst trait in the game and it still hasn’t been changed. Venoms are kittenty utilities aside from basi venom and only appealing with 5 out of 7 venom traits. Traps and every +5% trait sucks too. Nobody uses them unless there is nothing else to use.

Nerf our survivability without equal compensation and thieves become walking lootbags. Nobody will play one simply because of it. Dec. 10th update says hello.

Add solo instances with proper scaling.

[/problem]

Warriors do not need anything. They are the overall best profession in this game solely because the profession is very forgiving. There are plenty of passives, plenty of useful skills that break stuns and a warrior can maintain a high dps while providing support for everyone (including themselves).

If anything, warriors need their abilities nerfed a little. However, buffing every other profession to their level would be nice too.

Thieves are supposed to be slippery while mesmers are supposed to be confusing.

Also I don’t like the idea.

I’m necroing this thread again.

No, I don’t like the open world idea. Leave it instanced so everyone can enjoy it without a zerg.

Dee Jay.2460:

If you roll a human female with cultural armor you will literally be the least unique looking character in the entire game.

With abyss dye, celestial dye and a hood.

On Topic: I have only spent $20 for the whole 1.5+ years I have been playing. Both going to the Molten Mining Axe and Chop-it-All axe. I also have the Toxic alliance axe and the sickle which I bought with the gold I made with the first two tools.

I wonder when people will start realizing that you are supporting NCSoft by buying gems?

All that money goes to w/e NCSoft feels like giving the money to.

Conncept.7638:

stuff

How about you read everything first before you start blindly telling me I am wrong.

1.) People CAN make educated GUESSES all they want because they can. Feel free to debunk them since that’s something everyone CAN do aswell. But unlike alot of commenters here, I have a reference. It’s called Runescape’s Evolution of Combat Update, and everything I just said is based off of the crap that happened in those 6 months.

2.) GW2 can do it’s best to not follow in other mmo’s footsteps but regardless of how they design it, travel is still travel. This game has travel like most other open-world action mmorpgs so trying to break it down into subtopics won’t help your point when I am talking about the whole thing and every related subtopic.

3.) I know you didn’t read my longer post because you didn’t even try to debate it. As a design student, you can design mounts systems all you want but if you don’t look at it from a customer/player point of view in junction you will trip yourself. Anet can be made up of brilliant programmers and designers but if they are disconnected from their playerbase in any way, they will start losing potential paying customers.

My reference is the veteran thief community. Their dec 10th update kittened most of the thief community off because they were advertising a -50% overall ini regen as a “MASSSIVE buff” because they were going to lift a previous nerf off of natural ini regen. Everything was either nerfed or untouched except for p/d which doesn’t use much initiative. Then they gave us another venom which didn’t help the utility set since nobody cares to use them without venomshare or on elite skills. Yeah…. MASSSIVE disconnect there.

4.) Whether you believe it or not, pro-mounts are a minority. Anti-mounts are also a minority and there is almost no way to know who has more. But then again that is a petty point. Fact is pro-mount is almost as loud as anti-thief which is what I said and you insinuated that I was saying pro-mount was the lesser.

Fact is, all three of them are equally annoying and people are starting to get tired of repeating the same thing over and over. Just one of the reasons why every new mount thread created always gets this kind of reply in the first 5 comments.

5.) No, its not, because once you eat your cake you don’t have it anymore. That’s where the saying comes from. Yes you can take bite out of it but eventually you will be left with less than what you have and you will regret eating it, even if it is slight.

I also never said it would affect combat. If you actually read, I compared it with combat because it is a universal concept in mmos. If you make your character fight an npc where the outcome is one of you is going to die, its called combat (or conflict in an even broader term). Likewise, if you make your character move from one area to another, that is called travel. It is a concept that is always tied in with movement and it is firmly established in open-world mmos.

And finally…

6.) After 19 pages of debate very few of the pro-mount comments really showed anything of substance. The rest of it was purely ad hominem, red herrings, strawmans, cherry picking, moving the goalposts, nirvana fallacy, divine fallacy and shotgun argumentation. And those are just the big ones.

But more importantly, they get used instead of the commenter actually attempting to debate the proper way. And it happens every single time without fail.

TL;DR read my comment anyways

runeblade.7514:

Conncept.7638:

Oh look, yet more assumption, in fact pretty much two solid pages of it.

Nobody knows anything at all about how mounts will be implemented, therefore:

1. You do not know whether players will be able to use them to drag aggro and grief. In fact if the system worked with mounts as it works on foot I can guarantee you this wouldn’t be any more possible with mounts than it is without.
2. You have no idea what mounts will look like, where they will be permitted, their size, shape, color, culling level, anything at all. And therefore do not know that mounts will be an ‘eyesore’, and no, having been an eyesore in other games says absolutely nothing about this one.
3. You do not know whether mounted speed would imbalance combat, PvP, or WvW.
4. If mounts are available in combat, you have no idea how that would even work, what gameplay it would add or what it would damage.
5. You’ve no idea how they would affect the economy as you have no idea how they would be obtained.
6. You’ve no idea at all about how much development time they would take. Quit making up bullcrap on this, none of you are game developers, quit pretending to be.

7. Most of all, you have no idea how many players want or do not want mounts. One group of forumites, obviously and heavily influenced by herd poisoning, says nothing at all about the opinions of the playerbase at large on the subject.

This post destroys all anti-mount arguments.

That applies to both sides because “nobody knows anything at all”. But players can make educated guesses if, and only if, they look at how their basic implementation (generic mmorpg mounts) will affect everything. And as I explained in an earlier comment, mounts only serve a few purposes.

Adding a generic mmorpg mount in a game such as GW2 would cause more problems than solve simply because mounts are connected to travel which a broad and commonly used mmorpg mechanic. Things like very vocal minorities ranging from anti-concept to anti-change spamming up the forums and shifts in metas (travel metas) can hurt or help a game depending on how its implimented.

But since you are dealing with a mechanic that is as sensitive as combat, implementing them would require way more time to plan and design it than all of the pro-mounts believe. You can’t simply add them…

Unless of course, you add them in a way that doesn’t effect the original mechanic.

So you really can’t have your cake and eat it too. That’s really what I am trying to say here.

Just to put my two cents in:

Damage = 2000(power) * 1000 (weapon str) * skill coefficient / 2597 armor

3.) Screen Divide (4 initiative)
Shadowstep past enemies in the direction of movement, slashing them along the way.
Damage: 192 x2 (.5)
Range: 600
Maximum Hits: 2 per enemy

4.) Javalin (4 initiative)
Throw sword that pierces through enemies and makes enemies vulnerable.
Damage: 308
Vulnerability: x2 (4s)
Range: 900

5.) Blade Dance (5 initiative)
Destroy projectiles and damage nearby enemies.
Damage: 77 x9
Range: 180
Duration: 3 seconds.
Destroy projectiles.

With pistol MH:
Blitz (4 initiative)
Slash enemies around you and then push them away with a burst from your pistol.
Slash damage: 231 (.3)
Radius: 200
Pistol damage: 346 (.45)
Push Range: 300

With dagger MH:
Pull Line (3 initiative)
Throw a dagger and line and pull yourself to your target to stab them with your sword.
Damage: 346 (.45)
Range: 900
Daze: 1/4s

Pibriamal.8719:

“X beat me cause I suck kitten at this game. Nerf X so I can feel better about myself without learning how to play.”

Yes they can.

The whole point of having a mount is to have a quicker form of travel on an aesthetically pleasing model. They always follow a specific set of rules to keep the practicality and aesthetics at optimal levels; for example disappearing when entering incompatible areas, speed boosts, etc. Take WoW for example. You have mounts like Vial of the Sands which turns you into an exotic mount allowing you to take on a passenger. But it is only like this because there is no other way to get around save for a few portals. Also every continent is FREAKING HUGE.

In a game where there is already a method of quick travel, mounts would lose their practical purpose leaving only aesthetic value available. To fix this, you could remove waypoints but you can’t simply remove them because they are currently the main source of travel. Removing them drastically changes the mechanics of the game. You only do something like that in a beta. Otherwise it causes a kittenstorm within the playerbase. You could keep the waypoints, but then players would waypoint and then use their mount to close the gap. The problem of advantages remain.

Which means to consider Swiftness and 25% running speed passives. Every profession has access to swiftness or some form of speed boost. Asking for a mount with a speed boost produces an unfair advantage because you don’t need to grant yourself swiftness, take up a trait/skill slot or use movement skills to move faster. Your mount is a free speed boost. Then you get off and you have your combat skills. This makes players feel they won’t be able to keep up if they do not have one. So whether getting a mount is optional or not, it is mandatory to have one in order to keep up. So adding things like the broom and drill is fine but adding a speed boost to that will change the mechanics of the game because having a mount would be more practical.

You could bypass that by requiring the player to actively apply the boosts while mounted for better speed. But then you’de have to consider what it would take to balance between normal speed mechanics and mount speed mechanics so that one isn’t superior than the other. Since profession each have different levels of movement access, only the slower professions would find little need to buy a mount. Could anet make a buck off of it? I don’t know but most of the early anti-mount comments tend to get quicker thumbs than the OP.

Other minor details like lore, immersion, etc. is solely up to the developers but again, that debate should only be decided on during beta. And again this game is not in beta. Further debate after the fact is relative but overall fruitless since anet has shown that they already have priorities they will not deviate from.

If this was still beta, you would have a much better chance at getting mounts. But since the game mechanics have already been decided you are stuck with the broom, the drill and at least half of the playerbase saying it isn’t a good idea.

The reasons I posted above plus the playerbase wall are both preventing you from getting mounts and until someone comes up with more logical reasons other than “Lore”, “Immersion”, “Other MMOs have them”, “They look cool”, “emotions” and “Your argument is invalid because I say so” mounts will never happen.

That’s what every argument for mounts boils down to and none of them are good enough. And it isn’t because I say so, it is because almost nobody on the pro-mount side ever thinks about it. They just want. Consider what anti-mounts have to say before writing them off as wrong, because they are not.

InB4promountdisectsmycommentandlolnopeseverything.

That’s (mainly) the problem. Emotion is irrational and will drive itself into a ditch unless logic steps in the way and says, “Hey, you are going to drive yourself into a ditch. Stop or you are going to get screwed.”

Likewise, most of these people who want mounts are entirely disregarding how mounts would affect other players. The players who are saying it is a bad idea list the reasons why while those for mounts are simply telling them “your argument is invalid” without stating why.

And like every mount thread, those who try to reason gradually realize that reason and logic isn’t going to work so they start appealing to emotion as well. Discussions and debates are worthless at this point because it boils down to “yes mounts”/“no mounts” comments.

But let me ask you this: if people wanted mounts, why don’t we see the broom or drill very often? Why isn’t anet making more of them, perhaps bigger ones at that?

Salad is evil. It is a nasty green color, tastes really bad and gives you the runs. 3:

runeblade.7514:

thaooo.5320:

Thread is still going.

“pro-mount” side still hasn’t given a real reason why the game should be ruined with mounts.

19 pages… with nothing but “I want it, and a speed boost”.

Sigh.

You refuse to listen.

No we listened, its just that we’re getting distracted by all of these informal fallacies you guys keep using.

shadowpass.4236:

5 is OP as crap, 15 initiative in total, 7 used for Snipe, 8 initiative left, 200 range per initiative, 1200 range, so 1200 + 1600…. u want thieves to be able to killshot from a 3000 range? LOL

Yeah, OP my kitten .

> Its a long range FACESTAB with up to 8 SECONDS worth of charging for full FACESTAB damage.
> At that range you can dodge the bullet by simply sidestepping.
> You have up to 8 SECONDS to find cover and obstruct it.
> If you are close and the thief misses, he has NO INITIATIVE and your chances of killing him go up.

So if this ever gets implemented and someone dies to it, either the thief’s timing was dead on or the player who died is the worst player in the game.

5-8 Second weak killshot with about .5-1 seconds of time to dodge the incoming round. Most telegraphed skill in the game. Seriously dude…

EDIT: EMPHASIZING SOME KEY POINTS ON MY COMMENT

Shockwave.1230:

This isn’t a serious thread right?

Copy/Paste Warrior

yay necroing!

I’ve noticed a delay too. Infiltrator’s Return, Disabling Shot… pretty much everything with a cast time is too slow for it’s cast time. And this is on 1mb/s internet.

Johje Holan.4607:

stuff

You know whats more annoying than thieves? Mount threads and thief complaints threads. Both of those types of threads draw in many like-minded extremists who purely seek to get what they want in the most unyieldingly biased fashion.

And they are so bad that the only thing that will break them is severe ad hominem which always results in infractions and suspensions. But the worst part about them is that they get away with it.

All thieves can do is sugarcoat their posts enough to where the players who complain get the message without inciting the infraction hammer. That takes planning and careful consideration to wording, something that I REALLY wish I could ignore but can’t. Someone has got to be the one to give tough love, otherwise it all continues to plummet into oblivion.

You all know I am right.

Gibson.4036:

khani.4786:

You think it’s hard to target the bank person because some jerk put a box of fun under him…how bad do you think it’s going to be when there are 20+ people all standing on top of the NPC you want to talk to and they AND the mounts are all stacked on top…AND some jerk put a box of fun down there too.

Then there will be people coming to the forums requesting that mounts go away, that you can’t be on a mount in a city or within 20 feet of an NPC or near any interactable object…

Rift had griefers like this at the start. Then they made cities auto-dismount you.

I expect most mount advocates would agree with auto-dismount in cities, towns and interior spaces. Sure, you couldn’t cover every interactable object in Tyria with a no-mount zone, but I doubt a griefer is going to find much satisfaction blocking a random heart npc in a corner of Brisban Wildlands.

Many games have mounts and have had this problem, and some have found ways to deal with it.

Griefers would not care about hearts. they would care about the temples, perferably Balthazar. So if they add mounts and griefers start messing up balthazar, we know who to blame.

And just to add my 2 cents to “auto-dismounting”, having the mount suddenly change into something different or suddenly disappear is as obnoxious and immersion breaking as legendaries. Very little to no lore, more unnecessary pixels everywhere and the only thing it does is clutter up my screen.

Skan.5301:

stuff

All you did was c/p every list and say, “This doesn’t say ‘add mounts’ so it must be wrong” to each one. That’s what every person for adding mounts has done since forever. And they do it because their arguments are purely emotional and based off of low priority issues.

He has valid points. You just don’t want to debate them properly because you know you’ll lose.

Anet should merge all merged mount threads. We have like…. what, 3 of them already?

x/p and anything using Cloaked In Shadow are the main culprits.

If you really want to reduce the blind spam, keep them from landing CnD on you and keep out of the Black Powder. You can actually hit them while outside the field since its incredibly small.

v I just said Cloaked in Shadow lol.

Johje Holan.4607:

complaints

Yeah, 1.5 years straight worth of nerfing was enough. In fact the last nerf made most of the veteran thieves shelve their thief. Now all you see are warrior/guardian hammer trains in WvW because all those vets rerolled and joined in the fun.

Next scapegoat is warrior and I highly doubt it will be as easy to nerf as thieves because everyone on the team pretty much plays them.

I do my best.

Iluth.6875:

Me and another engi just got ruined by a d/d thief, the build is still and always was viable.

People in the thief class just want a faceroll though. When a thief talks about viable, they mean “never losing or dying”

If a thief killed 2 engis, then the engis should not be pvping in the first place. Who knows what else will kill them.

That’s why I am here! To remind players that their statements can be (severely) flawed.

Annoying fights isn’t and never was exclusive to thieves. Every profession is capable of being annoying.

What is annoying is when every day there is at least 1 new topic complaining about the thief’s ability to shadowstep, stealth and evade when that is really all they can do to stay alive. It actually tops mount threads.

The way they normally OP writes their flame or their sob story or some thoroughly disguised complaint and offers a blanket nerf without recognizing the repercussions those nerfs will have on the profession. Forum guards, like myself, reply to the threads to subtley hint to OP that their plight is their fault and then receive their weekly infraction.

Now if they, you know, get some information and think about what what they want changed on the profession a little, they could easily avoid the forum guardians defensive trolling. They don’t get hurt, the forum guards don’t get defensive, the thread doesn’t get locked and nobody gets suspended.

Example….

If the OP (and other antithiefists) would have come out and said something along the lines of:

fighting thieves sucks balls because skill spam. Should fix by adding very short cooldowns on some of the skills but then increase damage/speed/conditions to compensate for the removal of spammability in proportion to the lost viability. hint hint Like so:

<insert idearrhea>

Then forum guardians like myself will come on here and reply with:

k

or provide tweaks to the ideas. But just being generally open minded and accepting of criticism at all times (both sides) can do wonders. Being coherent does wonders too.

Sandpit.3467:

The worrying thing is that no matter how OP a profession is, ANet always listen to those wanting more OP if it’s one of their favoured professions. Thieves are very favoured so expect more buffs incoming.

The last year’s worth of thief nerfs say “hi”.

insanemaniac.2456:

Sartharina.3542:

I actually see the ‘counterpoints’ as what makes Initiative great for playing as a thief. A thief is not merely a warrior with a tiny weapon.

If fighting a thief feels really cheap and cheesy, then Mission Accomplished. They’re not supposed to fight ‘fair’, and, if they try, they end up sucking for it.

They use actual dirty play and guile to get an edge over opponents, instead of using honorable fair play and standard combat abilities given stealth-themed names and particle effects.

except the game is supposed to be fun.
i cant say ive ever had fun fighting a thief.
so the game is failing in that respect.
dirty play and guile dont have to be unfun for the opponent. but things like no revealed on mitigated attacks and long duration stealth make fighting a thief unfun. it makes active mitigation pointless, it means you might as well jump in place pushing about face to have a better shot at a front stab instead of a back stab.

Getting told an obvious nerf is a “MASSSIVE buff” isn’t fun.
Playing with an elitist group that wipes anyways isn’t fun.
Playing with random parties period isn’t fun.
Playing musical towers in WvW isn’t fun.
Ganking players that fail to maintain situational awareness and then complain when their failure costs them another trip to the zerg isn’t fun.
Being pushed to play the meta in order to be useful isn’t fun.
Professions being pigeonholed into a DPS only meta isn’t fun.
Having 60% of all traits and utilities be either useless or extremely situational isn’t fun.
Having to hear HS spam complaints on a s/x build isn’t fun.
Having to repeat the same rebuttals against that same complaints 24/7 isn’t fun.

You know what is fun?

Knowing I am never going to be guilty of rolling my face on a keyboard because my profession doesn’t allow it is fun.
Knowing that if I get on another profession that I am going to have vastly better management of my cooldowns and timing than most of the players who don’t main my profession… which is fun.
My profession being the best looking with a buttcape on is fun.
Getting my daily self esteem boost because the numerous complaint posts I read have no basis for argument or discussion largely due to lack of experience is fun.

I’ve had fun fights with thieves because I know how they work, I know how to kill them without stealth on my thief and I know which attacks hurt them the most at the right times on my other professions.

And I, as well as several other thieves, would gladly show you if you would simply let us and stop constantly shooting down like a zealous machine gunner.

This needs to happen anet! Nobody, sept those susceptible to obnoxious shinies, will go for a legendary the way they are.

Increased desire for legendaries translates to bigger chance someone will buy gems > gold > mats for their own legendary!

Einlanzer.1627:

If you’re going to have Initiative, the way it HAS to be designed is that the #1 skill should always be the bread and butter damage source, and the #2 – 5 skills need to offer various utility and/or light supplemental damage that DOES NOT offer huge benefits for spamming. The problem is that the skills just aren’t balanced well for it. They also need to fix the queuing.

Then give everyone initiative (or something like it).

It is WAY more fun to use a global cooldown than the current cooldown system. The cooldown system every other profession has encourages rotations which has to be the most brainless method of attack in existence.

It forces players to manage what they have available in real time where every attack makes every other attack less available. It forces players to fully commit rather than “LETS SEA WUT AHTACK IZ OF CULDOWN”.

Archenteron.7541:

Now thieves are useless on pvp, is the worst class… can’t use them and when i fight with them they don’t have chanches… Thieves needs love

So love
Much nerf
Very Suck
wow
Pigeonholing
Why doing this anet?
Such needing buff

NinjaEd you are starting to have idearrhea. Keep the skill floor high so we can laugh at everyone behind the cheese label they place on us.

None of you top my snazziness.