Guild Wars 2

Basandra Skye.4031:

Zelulose.8695:

Yes yes but seriously, It is the same as giving blank end game gear and selling all the good looking stuff in the shops. Why should I level crafting if I can buy all the best looking backpack skins. People can also market accounts this way to make some serious cash. (Sorry the title has been edited)

Because all the crap you buy with gems dont have stats? And make serious cash my kitten . Anyone dumb enough to try selling account typically gets permanently banned once Anet acts on it.

And how do ban a person who is purchasing multiple accounts? With different proxys? Anet acts like they can ban them but they cannot really stop it. Besides this is just one of many reasons why Anet shouldn’t have one day sales.

Well either Gw2 is getting money for one day gem items or someone else is. I mean seriously, one person just buys a whole bunch of gw2 accounts, waits for a one day item, and sells them for more. How did the devs not see why one day purchases are bad.

Yes yes but seriously, It is the same as giving blank end game gear and selling all the good looking stuff in the shops. Why should I level crafting if I can buy all the best looking backpack skins. People can also market accounts this way to make some serious cash. (Sorry the title has been edited)

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Not sure who told you that. I’ve not heard that, but you can get anything in the Gem Store in-game by exchanging Gold for Gems.

Maybe what was mentioned was the BiS gear is available only outside the Gem Store.

Not sure.

Also, call me dumb, but what is ‘account trading’ and what does it have to do with Gem Store items? You aren’t allowed to trade accounts in GW2, but maybe what you are referring to is something else.

Again, not sure.

Then buy me wings which look more like an armor design accessory than a little backpack. (But you can’t they are gone)

So… I remember hearing that, when I bought this game, all the cool looking gear would be accessible in game. However, I see really cool, one-day items that look better than the gear accessible by playing the game. Furthermore, it is only offered temporarily in the gem store. I don’t mean to cry, but this is ridiculous. Does anyone else agree? This promotes account trading.

Shadow.1345:

Zelulose.8695:

Shadow.1345:

You know what, I’m not even done. There are different kinds of creativity and intelligence. This is a fact. Just because someone is poor at mathematics doesn’t make a person unintelligent because they may be very good at other areas of intellect. This goes with creating things as well. I have friend who plays who is an excellent writer and story-teller who role-plays a plethora of characters and creates great DM plots but she just runs a standard pewpew ranger build when she pvps because the whole mechanics building aspect doesn’t click with her. Does that make her uncreative just because she didn’t toil over the traits to find a build?

Also, just because we don’t think wasting the developer’s time and the company’s resources on hiding someone’s build from hot join spectators doesn’t mean we don’t want people to create their own builds or that we didn’t work on making our own. To imply the two are mutually inclusive is nothing short of asinine and insulting. Your proposed fix is not a fix because the real methods by which people obtain a build not of their own is not through spectating hot joins, it’s done by google searches and asking guildies and friends.

How exactly do you have the omnipresence to know that every player is on google searching builds instead of spectating them?

Also, you answered correctly. There are different types of creativity. This build creation aspect is one of many avenues that I would like to see opened up.

I don’t have the omnipresence to know that but do you have the omnipresence to know that they are spectating hot joins to get their builds?

I do however have logic on my side. See looking at the traits and coming up with your own build takes effort. Spectating matches to find someone that plays your class well takes time and effort as well. A google search to find what is the optimal build is much easier and requires less time and effort.

As for the different types of creativity, not everyone that pvps does it a lot and wants to spend time theory crafting. They just want something that doesn’t have them taking dirt naps as often when they do. Why force them to do something they don’t want to do? And do you honestly think those “lazy” people are going to choose going into different hot join rooms in hope of finding someone who plays their class well when they can just google it instead?

I don’t have omnipresence either. However, it is reasonable to assume that many player use spectate to copy builds. Otherwise, people would not be so against changing spectate to hide skill bars and traits.

For the first bolded portion, refer to previous threads.

For the second bolded portion, I don’t doubt they will google builds. But when their class get’s destroyed by their own profession in a hot-join, they will find it faster just to spectate it and take it rather than google it. Also, there is no guarantee the build they want to figure out is on google.

If this change won’t affect you why do you fight it so much? Do you really like spectating/stealing players builds that much?

Saiyan.1704:

Embrace The Bold.7619:

mikeew.8607:

Na I am good if you can’t figure it out on your own then the door is right there. I don’t need to prove anything that isn’t already known and stated all over.

As someone whose mained ele since beta you’re over-reacting. Ele is not broken or OP, is it strong? yes. Why? because in SKILLED hands it can be a very great class. However I find very few skilled people can play ele right. So anet don’t listen to this guy ele is perfect right now (minus the whole nerf to fresh air builds).

This is a terrible, terrible mindset.

“The class is OP but only >percentage< of the community can master it, so no nerf, the class is balanced.”

That statement is so wrong, I don’t know where to begin.

Don’t worry ele can’t be that bad because they want to nerf mesmer too. After both are nerfed, I wonder who else will be nerfed. Maybe perhaps the necro and ranger?

Shadow.1345:

You know what, I’m not even done. There are different kinds of creativity and intelligence. This is a fact. Just because someone is poor at mathematics doesn’t make a person unintelligent because they may be very good at other areas of intellect. This goes with creating things as well. I have friend who plays who is an excellent writer and story-teller who role-plays a plethora of characters and creates great DM plots but she just runs a standard pewpew ranger build when she pvps because the whole mechanics building aspect doesn’t click with her. Does that make her uncreative just because she didn’t toil over the traits to find a build?

Also, just because we don’t think wasting the developer’s time and the company’s resources on hiding someone’s build from hot join spectators doesn’t mean we don’t want people to create their own builds or that we didn’t work on making our own. To imply the two are mutually inclusive is nothing short of asinine and insulting. Your proposed fix is not a fix because the real methods by which people obtain a build not of their own is not through spectating hot joins, it’s done by google searches and asking guildies and friends.

How exactly do you have the omnipresence to know that every player is on google searching builds instead of spectating them?

Also, you answered correctly. There are different types of creativity. This build creation aspect is one of many avenues that I would like to see opened up.

NeXeD.3042:

Is it unreasonable to think players may have come up with something pretty close to the meta just by playing on their own and discovering what works well and what doesnt…..

That’s what happened to me. I didn’t copy and paste some ones build I just kept adjusting to what my necro did well and what it didn’t eventually ended up with something very similiar to what the meta power build was at that time. I’m not saying I’m the majority but you seem to be lumping people like that in with the majority simply because they play a similiar build and you ASSume that person copy and pasted.

How close minded is it to think you actually have something truly unique in a game with a limited set of options and a decent sized playerbase?

Well, I hope the dev’s are able to increase diversity as more expansions come out. This change not only helps protect possible present diversity, but also future diversity following expansions.

Shadow.1345:

The build I run is my own and not copied.

My reasoning is that people who are looking for a build someone else made isn’t going to spend the time watching hot join (which most people think is a joke) and instead just do a quick google search, find meta-battle and go from there because it requires less effort. It has nothing to do with my creativity level. The real issue of creativity or lack thereof is a problem of humanity that goes much deeper than hiding spectating on hot join matches or even a video game in general. The changing of spectating people’s builds only serves to rob the majority, including people who don’t pvp, to simply satisfy less than 1% of the playerbase by using time and resources to change that instead of adding new content, like new maps. You still have yet rebut my point that it is a waste of time and resources for this fix that isn’t a fix or prove that it in truth a fix when so many other more easily accessible sources are available.

Sorry to have missed it. You are not a Dev. so you would not know if it is a waste of time and resources. However, I have addressed this but will address it in a different manor. When I stated more builds would be able to countered it is because players cannot as easily spectate each other to eliminate counters. Furthermore, with a slowed meta progression players are less likely to guess what build an enemy uses based on their weapons and signets. This will create an affect that can increase build diversity.
The other sources of builds (A comment idea that is stated allot thus far) is that this is where builds are distributed when players want to share them. Furthermore, I will again repeat, the change is meant to slow ideal build creations that directly overshadow other builds and eliminates diversity.
(Again I have answered but this is why I refer to previous threads. It is time consuming to repeat myself).

They need to create a time attack dueling arena to house this style of game play.

Saiyan.1704:

Zelulose.8695:

NeXeD.3042:

Theres literally no reasoning with this guy, we post responses to his posts and he just says see previous post….. I mean it’s completely unreasonable we did read his post and still didn’t think he was making an effective point so we respond and he just tells us to see the same post we just read to which we were responding too…. it’s like an infinite loop that won’t end until we all just say give up or appease him.

This is because you can’t gather evidence and to lengthen your response so you restate what was answered before in a different way. You create a loop so I create a response in a similar loop. I aim to gather different reasons supporting or opposing the original post. Sorry if this seemed annoying.

The word your looking for is reiterate. Right now, you’re on the verge of rambling; throwing everybody off for the sake of arguing.

You’re not gathering “reasons to support or oppose” your original post. You’re 100% bias without even realizing that the majority here disagree with your notion of closed/private builds, for teasons that have been expressed several different ways.

Build’s are not unique. People may describe a build in that way because they’re uncommon. The only thing that is unique are playstyles and this was not what your original post was refering to. The changes would do more harm than good.

It is closed minded to think uniqueness is limited to how you click your skills and run around.
Furthermore, the majority and I are both completely biased. I am biased to change spectate and the majority is biased to leave it how it is.
I have already recognized the majority disagrees because the majority enjoys copying builds. I am simply responding till the thread closes.

Dondagora.9645:

I feel like it isn’t so much that people are looping their reasoning, just that there’s only one reason you’re wrong, being that this is simply making something inconvenient to do and has no purpose except make balance harder. While there may just be a reason or two you’re wrong, that’s all that’s needed to make your whole suggestion a bad one. You haven’t adapted your idea on this presented flaw in your idea and therefore the only thing we can do is just repeat over and over again the same reasons why you’re wrong, because those reasons haven’t changed and you haven’t addressed how to explain how it could be fixed.

A diverse spread of reasons for why this is a bad idea, thus, is unnecessary.

Similarly, I can respond to repeated reasoning with my previous response to say my point is valid. It reaches an impasse that boils down to (I say change you say no.)

Shadow.1345:

Furious.2867:

I guess ppl are different. Im usually flattered when someone copies whatever I’ve created even if it’s crap

Same here.

True, I often feel the same way. However, I made this in part because people have quit Gw2 because of what they feel is mass build theft (Not individual build theft). Similar to the difference of ten people copying a song verses the millions around the world copying a song. (An example player that hasn’t been on for my knowledge Mufa.1326)

NeXeD.3042:

Zelulose.8695:

NeXeD.3042:

Theres literally no reasoning with this guy, we post responses to his posts and he just says see previous post….. I mean it’s completely unreasonable we did read his post and still didn’t think he was making an effective point so we respond and he just tells us to see the same post we just read to which we were responding too…. it’s like an infinite loop that won’t end until we all just say give up or appease him.

This is because you can’t gather evidence and to lengthen your response so you restate what was answered before in a different way. You create a loop so I create a response in a similar loop. I aim to gather different reasons supporting or opposing the original post. Sorry if this seemed annoying.

You are the on creating the loop. You seem to think we all lack reading comprehension because we don’t agree with you. Or we just don’t agree with you or your reasoning. the burden is on you here my friend.

This is a false assumption, If you look at older posts, I answered new information but looped repeated questions or comments because it is simply fluff that people use to prolong an argument without anything new being discussed. Rather than repeating information, if a player responded “I disagree or something of the sort, I would not argue against him despite the lack of evidence”

NeXeD.3042:

Theres literally no reasoning with this guy, we post responses to his posts and he just says see previous post….. I mean it’s completely unreasonable we did read his post and still didn’t think he was making an effective point so we respond and he just tells us to see the same post we just read to which we were responding too…. it’s like an infinite loop that won’t end until we all just say give up or appease him.

This is because you can’t gather evidence and to lengthen your response so you restate what was answered before in a different way. You create a loop so I create a response in a similar loop. I aim to gather different reasons supporting or opposing the original post. Sorry if this seemed annoying.

I am disappointed at how uncreative player’s mindsets have become. People might as well be given premade builds by the developers and play without builds anyway. I will request they proceed to close the thread.

Dondagora.9645:

Zelulose.8695:

Dondagora.9645:

Zelulose.8695:

I humbly am no genious just a regular palyer.
From what I gather from these posts. People who create builds are the minority. (Althought these comments infer that people havent read my original post completely)
The majority favor my prediction. People would rather copy someome elses creative work rather than create their own and fight against me for it.

I just wan’t to repeat. The fix will slow down the rate at which metas arise. Even if there are ways to still get the builds, the distribution will be less convenient. Less convenience means slower distribution. (Even if only slightly slower)
I want to see build wars and skill wars togather to create a sense of uniqueness.

Um… no? What I’ve gathered from these posts is that people understand that what they build isn’t unique due to the limitations of the trait system and have no problem sharing their builds because they feel like even if the enemy knows what they’re using, it isn’t the build playing the game, its them. So only if the build is OP and they themselves are hilariously unskillful will the enemy knowing or copying the build actually weaken you, if you’re only riding the ranks on the wind of other players’ ignorance.

So from what I’m seeing of your post here is that you equate people who disagree with your idea of controlling build info to being part of the uncreative masses who simply want to steal other people’s ideas. What I see are people who, creative or not, believe that your idea of information control is a bad one that will, in the end, only help in hindering the meta’s progression and thus also hinder balance, meaning that hiding build information also let’s severely OP specs which are wildly outside the realm of balance hide in the opaqueness of this illusion of uniqueness you seem to be advocating for.

This very well is a possibility. However, If the build is hiding under the illusion of uniqueness, then it is not a meta and used by few people meaning less op specs in tournaments and hot join. If the build does become a ridiculously op meta it will be able to be balanced more correctly rather than a quick fix.

Meta determines the most effective builds in the most efficient way. If the meta is OP, as nothing can be more OP than a meta build[as is the nature of the meta], then by hiding the meta is to simply be hiding the OP builds from the balance team while those players, few as they may be, who figure it out will be reaping the benefits of unbalanced skills and trait combinations.

So, as you say, you’re not hiding anything. You’re simply prolonging the time it takes for the balance team to notice something is up.

Thus, there is no point in your suggestion except for prolonging the inevitable.

(If you understood, this is partially a repeat of what was just answered)
However, I will add this is not prolonging any inevitable, it is a proposal to change something that has persisted.

Shadow.1345:

Zelulose.8695:

Shadow.1345:

Zelulose.8695:

Shadow.1345:

I don’t honestly know why anyone would spectate your hotjoin match to steal your build when they could just go on google or youtube and type in “gw2 -class- pvp” build. Besides with 3 choices per trait tier it’s not like it’s all that hard for people to come up with a build.

Face it, nobody stole your build, they just saw the same glaring combination of traits, utilities and weapons and combined them.

This is not going to protect builds from being stolen. It will instead slow their distribution (As noted in my OP and previous posts)

If you don’t want your build stolen don’t use it in hotjoins. Problem solved.

Forcing secretive player to stop playing pvp is exactly why I posted this thread. Your post is, in fact, a revelation that this can affect the player base count and quality.

You can still pvp in ranked or unranked matches. Nobody said you had to quit playing.

But seriously,nobody that is going to use someone’s else build is going to watch you stomp on hotjoin heroes just to steal your scrub-a-dub-dub rubber ducky build. They’re going to go metabattle and use a build people that pros are using. Because if no one else is using your build or something extremely close to it, that they came up with on their own, and posting a video on youtube of it then your build isn’t worth stealing.

(Addressed in previous posts)

Dondagora.9645:

Zelulose.8695:

I humbly am no genious just a regular palyer.
From what I gather from these posts. People who create builds are the minority. (Althought these comments infer that people havent read my original post completely)
The majority favor my prediction. People would rather copy someome elses creative work rather than create their own and fight against me for it.

I just wan’t to repeat. The fix will slow down the rate at which metas arise. Even if there are ways to still get the builds, the distribution will be less convenient. Less convenience means slower distribution. (Even if only slightly slower)
I want to see build wars and skill wars togather to create a sense of uniqueness.

Um… no? What I’ve gathered from these posts is that people understand that what they build isn’t unique due to the limitations of the trait system and have no problem sharing their builds because they feel like even if the enemy knows what they’re using, it isn’t the build playing the game, its them. So only if the build is OP and they themselves are hilariously unskillful will the enemy knowing or copying the build actually weaken you, if you’re only riding the ranks on the wind of other players’ ignorance.

So from what I’m seeing of your post here is that you equate people who disagree with your idea of controlling build info to being part of the uncreative masses who simply want to steal other people’s ideas. What I see are people who, creative or not, believe that your idea of information control is a bad one that will, in the end, only help in hindering the meta’s progression and thus also hinder balance, meaning that hiding build information also let’s severely OP specs which are wildly outside the realm of balance hide in the opaqueness of this illusion of uniqueness you seem to be advocating for.

This very well is a possibility. However, If the build is hiding under the illusion of uniqueness, then it is not a meta and used by few people meaning less op specs in tournaments and hot join. If the build does become a ridiculously op meta it will be able to be balanced more correctly rather than a quick fix. (The issue of balance has previously been discussed briefly as has my lack of support)

Shadow.1345:

Zelulose.8695:

Shadow.1345:

I don’t honestly know why anyone would spectate your hotjoin match to steal your build when they could just go on google or youtube and type in “gw2 -class- pvp” build. Besides with 3 choices per trait tier it’s not like it’s all that hard for people to come up with a build.

Face it, nobody stole your build, they just saw the same glaring combination of traits, utilities and weapons and combined them.

This is not going to protect builds from being stolen. It will instead slow their distribution (As noted in my OP and previous posts)

If you don’t want your build stolen don’t use it in hotjoins. Problem solved.

Forcing secretive player to stop playing pvp is exactly why I posted this thread. Your post is, in fact, a revelation that this can affect the player base count and quality.

DanzelOPP.5068:

It is pointless to attempt to hide your build considering their are so few builds that actually work available. Yes you might have some traits in the same line different but if you are building for a certain action…let’s say tank…you are going to pick the same 3 lines no matter what because the traits state exactly what they provide. It is not hard at all to accidentally go through lines create a build that is considered “the norm”

If you read, this same statement has been addressed in a previous comment. (same to NeXeD.3042)

Shadow.1345:

I don’t honestly know why anyone would spectate your hotjoin match to steal your build when they could just go on google or youtube and type in “gw2 -class- pvp” build. Besides with 3 choices per trait tier it’s not like it’s all that hard for people to come up with a build.

Face it, nobody stole your build, they just saw the same glaring combination of traits, utilities and weapons and combined them.

This is not going to protect builds from being stolen. It will instead slow their distribution (As noted in my OP and previous posts)

Yamsandjams.3267:

Zelulose.8695:

Yamsandjams.3267:

What are these creative builds that have been “stolen too quickly” and need protection “for the sake of balance”? Mind posting them? I could show you why they’re not actually creative and worth “protecting” if you do.

Me posting them would defeat the purpose of this thread. By sharing a build, it would no longer be creative or worth protecting. However, if you want to share a build, there are threads that builds can be posted on rather than spectating them.

But then how can you demonstrate that the build is worth “protecting” in the first place?

If you can’t prove that these builds are what you claim, or even show that you actually know any builds that fit your description, then for all we know they’re just average cookie-cutter builds. Some people could then infer that your real purpose it to prevent people checking out your build to subsequently counter-pick you.

Are you suggesting we just make large alterations to the game on nothing more than faith in your claims? I don’t believe many people are going to be convinced without something more substantial to reinforce your point.

This post was designed to trap me. You want me to post builds so you can say there is no need to keep a know build secret. However, by not posting builds you falsely assume that I have absolutely no builds and judged me by implying that if I do they are not viable. I may question your credibility as well.
I don’t believe you have the credibility to say we shouldn’t make game alterations to slow down the progression of what you may falsely think are not potential metas.

Yamsandjams.3267:

What are these creative builds that have been “stolen too quickly” and need protection “for the sake of balance”? Mind posting them? I could show you why they’re not actually creative and worth “protecting” if you do.

Me posting them would defeat the purpose of this thread. By sharing a build, it would no longer be creative or worth protecting. However, if you want to share a build, there are threads that builds can be posted on rather than spectating them.

ellesee.8297:

It’s perfectly relevant! You seem to think builds are special and place people who make builds on some kind of pedestal (like yourself) and tout them as skillful and creative! But in reality there is no diversity and it’s just a very simple process! There is always a clear choice in utility and traits especially now where Anet has oversimplified everything!

Also the balance team doesn’t need to catch up with anything unless you think biannual patches are too quick! Silly!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

I see where you are coming from now. There would be allot of build diversity, however, too many people have had the perfect, ideal chance to compare builds to perfection creating the ideal builds for each class. This is why I proposed the change. To slow down ideal build creation aka meta builds.

Also, let me clarify one thing, I do not esteem build creators higher than any type of player. I simply want to add a new element of uniqueness to the game. Furthermore, I am not a genius build creator or a genius player. I do not think I am above or below anyone or even average. This is because I do not claim status or positions.

Referring to the OP. Mesmers are almost like a thief counter class right now. However, if you have a ranger. You can easily reveal them for a bit preventing them from stealthing. If you time it to a PU mesmer’s mass invisibility, they lost 10 seconds of stealth.

Yes. Buff engineers. Even though I main mesmer, if they don’t buff engineer every other class will have to be nerfed. Buff engineers balance the game.

ellesee.8297:

Builds are so easy to make! There is no skill involved! Because there’s only one game mode, there’s only 2 types of builds! Damage and bunker! The wonderful celestial amulet introduced classes that are able to be both! #Balance! These are the criteria for any and every successful build!

• Can you survive focus fire/stunlock/immoblock long enough for your teammates peel for you (only useful if team queuing) or for you to escape to a better position!
• Do you have condi cleanse!
• Do you have a stun break!
• Do you have additional dodges!

If damage dealer:

• Can you deal damage!
• Can you move to points quickly to deal your damage!

If bunker:

• Can you sustain a lot of damage while on point!
• Can you support the team offensively and/or defensively! (Stab stomps/revives, might stacking, AoE healing/condi cleanse, etc)

Builds aren’t special! Any monkey can create a halfway decent build! You just have to meet the above requirements and exploit what the current overpowdered mechanics are! For example a power build that normally wouldn’t deal a lot of damage can become good with Air/Fire sigils! (See 30/30 Acro/Trickery SD Thief)

Wahoo! Bye frands!

This is totally unrelated to my OP make a separate thread for how to create builds please.

Lol if necro sustain is buffed then MM necro will be utter face-roll. Leave the necro as it is. Otherwise, it will be easier to click skill 1 to win.

Saiyan.1704:

Morwath.9817:

Sagat.3285:

Zelulose.8695:

Elxdark.9702:

ele is fine, burn damage isn’t.

Yes burn damage needs to be toned down on all classes not Ele alone.

Not sure why on guard who deserves the highest, cele ele breaks the condition damage effiency too easy the threshold needs to be raised,condi war and engi are fine and necro has Wetfire.

Not Flamethrower Engi? ;-)

Have youused flame thrower on a group with retal? You start to think about your life :P

Have you tried and Ele’s AoE on a group where all have retal?

Yup same issue but I have began double, triple, and quadruple clicking to make skills work.

This is not covered in my original post. however, I propose change to help casuals.
Disparity will always exist and this is a valid question. I see two sides to the outcome. One, players who are truly fortunate to be gifted with intelligence and skill will rise higher and dominate, or on the other hand, a strong player will be open to more build counters as they can never truly expect what their enemy class uses allowing for the underdog to become victorious.

If you read the posts, I adressed this in my original post and last post.

Shadow.1345:

With the synergy between traits combinations maintaining their uniqueness is not really a thing. As much as your ego demands that no one could have possibly have come up with your special snowflake build without copying you probability is not in your favour. With choosing 3 out of 5 trait lines means 10 choices of trait line combinations (this is not taking in different trait choices of course) so that means there is a 10% chance every one of your class you run into has the same combinations of trait liness just on that alone. For each trait choice there is a 1/3 chance someone else picked that choice. Do that 9 times over and you come up with roughly 1 out of every 20000 of your class has that exact same trait composition. Take that against all of the players that play GW2 and there is a 100% chance someone else is running your exact same trait composition that came up with all on their own. And that’s not even taking synergy into account.

This

Yes SlayerSixx.5763, you are absolutely right.( If you read my OP.) This post has nothing against players using the same build. Players with quick minds and creative mind will likely converge their builds and then battle it out with skill. However, by changing spectate, there are less skilless players getting strong builds and less brainless players with quick fingers using a build they can’t figure out. For learning, there is a post your build section on forums if a player wants to teach new players.

Perhaps other changes that increase diversity would benefit from a hidden skill bar during spectate. Players would show their creative uniqueness and their personal skill levels at tournaments.

I humbly am no genious just a regular palyer.
From what I gather from these posts. People who create builds are the minority. (Althought these comments infer that people havent read my original post completely)
The majority favor my prediction. People would rather copy someome elses creative work rather than create their own and fight against me for it.

I just wan’t to repeat. The fix will slow down the rate at which metas arise. Even if there are ways to still get the builds, the distribution will be less convenient. Less convenience means slower distribution. (Even if only slightly slower)
I want to see build wars and skill wars togather to create a sense of uniqueness.

All the classes seem balanced at least till the revenant comes out.

Calling for nerfs won’t fix much at this point. If you nerf mesmer you will have to nerf ele. then gurdian and mm necro. And once they are all nerfed you will have to nerf all the other currently op classes.

Chokolata.1870:

There is absolutely a need to further nerf mesmer damage and PU. Same goes for insane burning damage and elementalist sustain which became ridiculous with the new patch.

Hold on, mesmer and ele and other classes can’t all be op. The term for op is over powered meaning they stand above all other classes. This seems to be a paradox.

Morwath.9817:

Zelulose.8695:

Morwath.9817:

You know that anyone with clues would find more-less exact build of top players used im tourmanets even if you would hide bars? It would be harder, but people would just watch same videos like 10x in slow motion step-by-step to figure each single used skill?

Reminds me that people in GW1 were trying to hide their skill bars, that wasn’t much help in keeping ‘secrets’ ;-)

You said it. Players would would have to watch videos in slow motion step by step. If they go this far, they are very desperate for the build.

This relates to my OP slowing down (not eliminating) the speed at which builds are copied.

It wouldn’t slow anything. Especially when tournament players stream and share their knowledge about the game with others (e.g. guys from Abjured).

Ah your absolutely right. In my OP, I addressed this too. People for strategic reasons can share a really unique build to win a tournament. Also, because players have to be ready to copy the build (It does not always cross a persons mind to record every moment of his matches.) And have the right recording software or camera on hand, it will slow down the build copying rate.

For the sake of credibility, I had played the game at release and beta. It was not until spectate that players meta complaints increased and many strong builds had to be nerfed down very quickly.

Morwath.9817:

You know that anyone with clues would find more-less exact build of top players used im tourmanets even if you would hide bars? It would be harder, but people would just watch same videos like 10x in slow motion step-by-step to figure each single used skill?

Reminds me that people in GW1 were trying to hide their skill bars, that wasn’t much help in keeping ‘secrets’ ;-)

You said it. Players would would have to watch videos in slow motion step by step. If they go this far, they are very desperate for the build.

This relates to my OP slowing down (not eliminating) the speed at which builds are copied for reasons stated again in the OP.

Morwath.9817:

Are you serious?

yes

Elxdark.9702:

ele is fine, burn damage isn’t.

Yes burn damage needs to be toned down on all classes not Ele alone.

From what I have observed Ele is balanced to mesmer, thief, ranger, and gurdian. All of these classes have the potential to be practically immortal despite their aoe. Pu shatter mesmer. meditation/ burning guardians, wilderness survival rangers, and SA SB thief. From what I have seen with the recent updates, when played well they are immortal like the water elementalist.

This seems to me to be intended because of the way dueling was never implemented although asked for. Classes that are hard to kill arise be cause teams are meant to kill them not a 1 vs 1. Basically, the trend is to 1 vs 1 immortalize all the classes so that they are forced into team take-downs.

Have you ever created a personal build and had some player steal it from you? Sometimes players lack the ability to make really good builds and simply forum shop to appear decent. Build creators often generously share builds. However, personal builds are much too easily distributed.

Sadly, it is impossible to protect builds in pvp as someone will figure them out eventually. however, we can slow the distribution of ridiculously strong builds that fills pvp with metas.

The solution is to remove the ability to see traits, weapons, and skill bars during spectate.

This fix would not only slow down the creation of meta specs and protect build creations for longer, it would also give the balance team time to catch up with their game and result in better less frequent nerfs. I was curious as to other players opinion on this change while already expecting to be engaged by those who like easily spectating their builds.

“I propose change to help casuals. Disparity will always exist and this is a valid question. I see two sides to the outcome. One, players who are truly fortunate to be gifted with intelligence and skill will rise higher and dominate, or on the other hand, a strong player will be open to more build counters as they can never truly expect what their enemy class uses allowing for the underdog to become victorious.”

Zelulose.8695:

Shadow.1345:

Zelulose.8695:

Shadow.1345:

I don’t honestly know why anyone would spectate your hotjoin match to steal your build when they could just go on google or youtube and type in “gw2 -class- pvp” build. Besides with 3 choices per trait tier it’s not like it’s all that hard for people to come up with a build.

Face it, nobody stole your build, they just saw the same glaring combination of traits, utilities and weapons and combined them.

"

This is not going to protect builds from being stolen. It will instead slow their distribution (As noted in my OP and previous posts)

If you don’t want your build stolen don’t use it in hotjoins. Problem solved.

Forcing secretive player to stop playing pvp is exactly why I posted this thread. Your post is, in fact, a revelation that this can affect the player base count and quality.

The issue of adding health bars was that people will have too much build transparency. However, now with spectate, there is no secrecy in builds. Anyone can copy anyone’s idea anyway. This sort of update would improve warrior, Mesmer, ranger, thief and other classes stun lock builds. It may also make dodge less of a movement skill and more of a dodge skill while reducing spamming.

They should have let players sink to the bottom and fight underwater like on land.

Exedore.6320:

Zelulose.8695:

A power creep leads to a more detailed game with more stats more skills and more flashy combat. Anet should be buffing more than they are nerfing.

No. Power creep leads to shallow games which get to a point where everyone can do everything and people die in seconds.

Not if there is a creeping toughness effectiveness.

A power creep leads to a more detailed game with more stats more skills and more flashy combat. Anet should be buffing more than they are nerfing.