Guild Wars 2

If L.O.L. can balance and keep ranked going so can a better game like GuildWars 2

Ele should be #1 most op class this patch but I like where thay are at. Very balanced game at the moment.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Alex Shatter.7956:

I agree, mesmers are WAY overpowered right now. But it’s mostly because of the condition spike / burst ability and strong access to stability / condition removal. Most mesmers could care less about moa

Strong stability access? What are you even talking about XD

This chrono meta build has a few glaring weaknesses. One is it comes with a single stun break and NO stability.

It has 3 and potentially 5. Shatter can be used when stunned This means diversion, distortion, and continuum shift can be used defensibly. They also have a well and potentially decoy or blink if they want it instead of an extra well. The ileap once activated can cancel stun.

I know some will be offended at my statements, but we will just have to see more comments as people get a feel for this patch.

You can’t bunker to win now so good players win.

I give props to the balance team. They chose to help damage Instead of nerf sustainability and it is working quite well.

I have but one thing that would complete balance in my opinion. My last priority fix, which is all I feel is needed now, is a fix to spamming. I have actively watched the evade icon appear after dodging with a thief nine times sometimes getting hit between dodges due to low ping. This isn’t random dodges. This is seeing evade meaning I dodged them. Currently, there is no reward or actively dodging and 2-3 second blocks have filled dodges defensive roles.

But again the changes are perfect as every class is killable due to the power creep. Until a broken meta comes out I say keep the game how it is or add more traits or more pvp variety in general.

Good stuff balance team

Exciton.8942:

If you truly want nerf happen, play that class you want nerf.

It is so easy to reroll to anything OP nowadays.

Perfect suggestion. But don’t tell them to do this. Op class-sepcific specs are only op because not everyone uses the class or spec.

If everyone re-rolls op, no one will be op.

Sinister is good enough

I want them to take the initial attack away from pistol whip as I like the evade but hate loading the cc when I want to use it defensively.

They addressed build diversity didn’t you see their PVP update where they state they wanted to change build diversity effective by adding amulets?

Answer: They could care less about core specs or even balance lol.

Thief can’s use either. No vitality.

Lol mesmer got buffed again. I guess I can play this class forever forgetting all others. We only get buffed.

We can can start telling players update the Phantasmal Nerf a new phantasm. lol

Yup its true, mesmer is buffed. Now instead of mard they can grab a destroyer ammulet. Same with revenant. They buffed classes that needed nerfs. As a former mesmer main I’m giving up my thief and rerolling mesmer because there is no point. Mesmer is their baby. They invented it. They really love how unique this class is. They will never give another class the lead role.

But trust me. Grab a mesmer. They are weird at first, but after a while, you will destroy evety other class. They are easy to play and have infinate potential. Play anything else and the odds are agaisnt you

You hit the nail right on the head. Let me ad some specific gripes about this patch.

Why on earth did they leave everything unbalanced?

The reason is laziness. It isn’t hard to figure out. They were going to have to change allot of skills. Rather then do that they add small skill tweeks just to say they changed somthing.

What about the lack of variety? Players have been complaining and complain more each patch that variety is dying. People have been calling for this since release. I have figured out why we see no varity changes and the develpers appear to do nothing about it.

The devrlopers Honestly think they are adding variety by adding different amulets. This is very convenient for them in terms of balance and time. Sadly players Do not mainly see this as adding variety

Next patch they will note: Given the lack of variety, we are adding toughness-healing power-vitality amulet. But I jest.

Threads like these help the player base in the long run. Even I call for balance for other players sake. I always switch to the most op/fun class so it doesn’t matter to me which class gets buffed or nerfed. All that matters to me is that the game is fair to players who like playing different things than the meta. I myself would love to see more build diversity.

Sirendor.1394:

foste.3098:

‘What could be changed to improve balance’
-delete elite specializations from the game. Instant reduction in aoe, sustain, passive bullkitten, and other op crap that was put in to make ppl buy HoT.

Pretty much… elite specs are 8/9 (berserker isn’t) an upgrade to the base class. They have too much of everything (sustain, dps, cc, aoe), so yes, either nerf elite specs all the way down to core level, or RIP balance.

This is the issue I have been noting. If heavy sustain builds couldn’t do anything but tank then there would be increased viable variety within roles. However, at the moment, tanks are able to have access to too many things. Tanks should not be damage or condition bombs while also having access to various forms of cc. They should give up some of these elements when they spec for a heavy play style. It is not necessarily a nerf to sustain that I want to see. But a nerf to a classes ability to spec heavily for damage and still have access to allot of passive and active sustainability.

sinject.4607:

1. scrapper:

• nerf hammer damage across the board by 25%.
• nerf Rocket Charge to only provide a leap finisher on the first leap.
• nerf stability duration on Perfectly Weighted or remove the 10% damage increase entirely
• nerf Sneak Gyro to give it a 1/2 cast time; prevents it from acting as a free stunbreak and also gives it more counterplay similar to Supply Crate.
• nerf Slick Shoes; i think everyone agrees this is a toxic mechanic that needs more counterplay.

2. reaper/chronomancer:

• remove Mercenary’s Amulet
• nerf boon strip/condi transfer on Reaper.
• nerf “Rise!”/shambling horrors (also make it stop spawning Horrors on objects like on Kyhlo’s crates).
• nerf Continuum Split as to not affect Elites (Moa…).

3. herald:

• nerf Precision Strike; reduce damage and force it to have a target. there is no reason this should be tracking people in stealth beyond the behavior of a normal projectile attack.
• nerf Staff; Warding Rift or Surge of the Mists- one of the support attacks has to lose strength.

4. druid:

• nerf Bristleback slightly, say 10-15%
• slightly nerf protection or weakness uptime

5. dragonhunter:

• nerf Piercing Light; reduce daze duration to 1/4 sec from 1/2 to bring it strictly inline with interrupting, not locking down- they have far too many tools to do this already.
• nerf Shield of Courage slightly.
• nerf Dragon’s Maw in a similar manner to Slick Shoes; they’re both warding-type skills and something has to change about them. Getting caught in DMaw is often death because of the combination of Test of Faith punishing any teleports out unless you can get up to dodge + teleport before getting bursted to death.

6. tempest:

• nerf Overload Air’s damage or CD.
• nerf Protection uptime,

daredevil is the only balanced profession imo (despite my bias); not needing any buffs nor any nerfs.

beserker obviously needs some help but it’s not nearly as bad as people say, i’ve seen people make it work.

i also want to emphasize just cause professions like scrapper and chronomancer have ridiculously strong builds right now (soon to be nerfed im sure), we should also look at how to buff them as well; i know scrappers all find hammer boring but it’s the only thing they can play, similar to how Mercenary Chrono is the only thing left for mesmers. Lets nerf the mindless overpowered stuff and look to buff more challenging mechanics that raise the profession’s skill ceiling.

This is why I am pressing so hard for the sustain nerf. This is the way the dev’s think. They keep buffing and nerfing damage. A damage nerf will only result in more immortal specs. The more they nerf damage the better the sustain specs will be. I would rather they nerf sustain down to the ground first then consider damage nerfs after players have to chose between damage or tank.

Reduce sustainability across all classes. One example of sustainability is revenant receiving almost 100% damage mitigation in dwarven stance with free protection from dragon stance. I have reduced 2k’s to 200s damage on this class and I am able to maintain at least (7+33+20+10)% damage reduction with near 100% up-time. At least fix the free protection given by activating the ultimate without using it and the free regeneration given by activating the healing skill without using it in dragon stance. The boons can’t even be stripped because it regenerates protection every few seconds. This is One example along with Other classes that have ridiculous sustainability. Elementalists, Mesmers, Revanemts, and Engineers all can maintain 100% up time on protection and regeneration as if they are all heavy armor classes.

I hope this patch ends the ability to tank and deal significant damage for all classes as it should be one or the other to maintain build diversity. The only reason we have meta builds is because players can build a hybred of the best of everything. The best of damage, sustainability, mobility, and range along with other things such as cc. The ability to have everything without sacrificing anything is the source of power creeps and the fuel for the meta.

Spartacus.3192:

sure lets reduce build diversity even further……

This. We need more build diversity, They should allow other specs to use elite spec weapons. They should also bring back the old trait system as this one allows players to use more trait points causing the power creep we see now while at the same time reducing build variety.

This game is almost communist run by dictators. The HoT patch was a selfish act by the balance team as they didn’t balance a complicated game but rather made it easier to balance by reducing variety. Ironically, they still can’t balance the game.

I don’t mean to offend, but it is the truth that they need to man up to instead of getting angry and silencing players who call them out or using forum manipulation such as the banning of poles/pole like threads thus preventing players from voicing their opinions.

Thief is lacking and would appear to need an aoe buff or a damage buff. They tried with the dagger auto’s but it still isn’t enough to take down some bunkers using full glass thief. I would personally prefer a huge sustain reducing passive like one that makes thief able to hit though invulnerability, block or be unbridgeable just for 3 attacks or so.

Example, a mesmer if about to be hit by damage can just use f4 to distort. If this is on CD it can use decoy or blink. If it see’s a charge coming it can just blurred frenzy. thus it is 100% impossible for a pure damage specked character to take down a mesmer unless they bring SA, Acrobatics, or plenty of dodges. Thief one shotting people was bad but it used to be the only way to punch though a Mesmer defenses. This is one class example. There are many more. Something needs to change I’m not sure what the best method of change is though.

Furthermore, The healing reduction on poison is great but we need a vulnerability condition buff so power can deal with tanks. thief should be able to take down a target in 5 seconds unless they have fast reaction speed. The is the GW1 style of a spike.

Without the ability to deal quick damage, all power is pointless and everyone may as well play a sustain damage/condition hybrid because, glass or not glass, your character won’t take the target down quickly either way regardless of player skill level.

I only speak because I have defended mesmer and other classes when they needed help. It is the thief’s turn to receive help.

Fay.2357:

Zelulose.8695:

Fay.2357:

OP, you’re aware that when someone says ‘power creep’, they’re not actually referring to power-based damage, right?

Power creep is the growing buffs related to damage dealing abilities or options. This includes power builds and condition builds alike in this particular game and also may include increasing levels of crowd control. That is what one can refer to as the definition I intended in the title. Sorry about the confusion.

Nope, that’s completely incorrect. Power creep is a general term used to describe the increasing strength of abilities or mechanics. It has nothing to do with damage at all, only the relative strength of a given skill. This could refer to damage, cc, or sustain potential, it doesn’t matter which.

Yes… this is exactly what I understand crowd control to be. I’m sorry if you had trouble reading my explanation.

Lettuce.2945:

Zelulose.8695:

Anari.2137:

Zelulose.8695:

The source of the curent power creeps are heavily healing related. For example, mesmers have multiple defenses in the inspiration and chaos line. Theif has too much sustain in the shadow arts and acrobatics trait line. These examples serve to show the root of the problem across the classes. Initially, I had hoped sustain could be balanced. But after coming back from games such as league of legends, I am convinced this is no longer possible. The issue is that too many immortal specs exist giving rise to a power creep that will continue unless sustain is brought down instead.

I propose an heavy Nerf to sustain across classes

The purpose would be to create 5 vs 5 based on wining team fights on point rather than staying alive long enough for an ally to re spawn and replace his deceased partner to hold the point in a cycle of brain dead point holding by tanks.

No, that would mean everyone would die every 10 seconds, which would annoy the crap out of everyone.

What needs to happen is people need to be punished more harshly for making a mistake. The way to do this is to make adjust values (by about 10-15% for the high damage classes, and a lot more for the lower ones) to be higher (for some classes) but with it also increase the Power creep in healing.

What this will do is people will day a lot faster, but if they are quick enough they can spring back from it much faster. This will improve the value of having support in the group, which may also give way to double heal teams, which will get rid of a lot of double tripple stacking etc.

But this is a temp solution, the entire system needs a design pass (full) Done on the pvp, with a lot of reduction in choices, a lot more validation in talents, and power shifted off amulets and runes, to talents.

When speaking about health, This wont mean someone can one shot you. The power creep would stop and the sustain would decrease in terms of healing or rotatable blocks and dodges.

Dying faster is the intended effect as people have to make life or death choices. Mistakes will matter. Currently you can recover from 5 mistakes or more depending on the situation. For example, if you failed to dodge 5k worth of damage, in 20-15 seconds you can just heal it back up. This promotes less skillful game play.

One mistake shouldn’t kill a player but currently dodges are so expendable they are used for gap closers and kiting as classes have better sustain without the necessity of dodge.

I find this highly ironic coming from someone who mained cele PU Mesmer for the longest time prior to HoT then played cleric scrapper and ele as soon as HoT hit. Just my two cents. Lel.

I have mained Mezmer but use a variety of builds and classes. In fact, I honestly play around with various builds people or I make. My first main was bleed/trap ranger which switched due to a nerf. I then mained Mezmer due to huge buffs to sustain my ranger couldn’t compete with until the recent buffs. I currently main thief as playing League of Legends as a new player has increased my preference for the assassin classes.

Fay.2357:

OP, you’re aware that when someone says ‘power creep’, they’re not actually referring to power-based damage, right?

Power creep is the growing buffs related to damage dealing abilities or options. This includes power builds and condition builds alike in this particular game and also may include increasing levels of crowd control. That is what one can refer to as the definition I intended in the title. Sorry about the confusion.

CutesySylveon.8290:

I laughed do hard at the OP thinking evades are sustain and pointing a finger at thief, of all classes, at having too much sustain. Thief is dead the moment he stops moving, so complaining that he evades too much is just saying ‘I shouldn’t have to be conscious about when I use my skills and everyone should get hit by them.’

This is a misunderstanding. I am not pointing fingers at a thief. I used mesmer and thief because I wanted to use a fairly stronger class next to a fairly weaker class to reduce bias to the classes which people think are overpowered. For example, Scrapper and ranger need a reduction in sustain as all classes do. These were just two of all the classes I pointed out. Glad I made you laugh though.

Anari.2137:

Zelulose.8695:

The source of the curent power creeps are heavily healing related. For example, mesmers have multiple defenses in the inspiration and chaos line. Theif has too much sustain in the shadow arts and acrobatics trait line. These examples serve to show the root of the problem across the classes. Initially, I had hoped sustain could be balanced. But after coming back from games such as league of legends, I am convinced this is no longer possible. The issue is that too many immortal specs exist giving rise to a power creep that will continue unless sustain is brought down instead.

I propose an heavy Nerf to sustain across classes

The purpose would be to create 5 vs 5 based on wining team fights on point rather than staying alive long enough for an ally to re spawn and replace his deceased partner to hold the point in a cycle of brain dead point holding by tanks.

No, that would mean everyone would die every 10 seconds, which would annoy the crap out of everyone.

What needs to happen is people need to be punished more harshly for making a mistake. The way to do this is to make adjust values (by about 10-15% for the high damage classes, and a lot more for the lower ones) to be higher (for some classes) but with it also increase the Power creep in healing.

What this will do is people will day a lot faster, but if they are quick enough they can spring back from it much faster. This will improve the value of having support in the group, which may also give way to double heal teams, which will get rid of a lot of double tripple stacking etc.

But this is a temp solution, the entire system needs a design pass (full) Done on the pvp, with a lot of reduction in choices, a lot more validation in talents, and power shifted off amulets and runes, to talents.

When speaking about health, This wont mean someone can one shot you. The power creep would stop and the sustain would decrease in terms of healing or rotatable blocks and dodges.

Dying faster is the intended effect as people have to make life or death choices. Mistakes will matter. Currently you can recover from 5 mistakes or more depending on the situation. For example, if you failed to dodge 5k worth of damage, in 20-15 seconds you can just heal it back up. This promotes less skillful game play.

One mistake shouldn’t kill a player but currently dodges are so expendable they are used for gap closers and kiting as classes have better sustain without the necessity of dodge.

The source of the curent power creeps are heavily healing related. For example, mesmers have multiple defenses in the inspiration and chaos line. Theif has too much sustain in the shadow arts and acrobatics trait line. These examples serve to show the root of the problem across the classes. Initially, I had hoped sustain could be balanced. But after coming back from games such as league of legends, I am convinced this is no longer possible. The issue is that too many immortal specs exist giving rise to a power creep that will continue unless sustain is brought down instead.

I propose an heavy Nerf to sustain across classes

The purpose would be to create 5 vs 5 based on wining team fights on point rather than staying alive long enough for an ally to re spawn and replace his deceased partner to hold the point in a cycle of brain dead point holding by tanks.

I have put this game on the back burner since the new lol patches came out, after black desert came out, and after other games came out. The reason isn’t because this came lacks aesthetics, or amazing game mechanics, or flashy combat, or even fast paced 5 vs 5 pvp. The reason I left this game behind is that there was nothing new to do. I felt like there was no new build worth exploring as the metas gets established so quickly leaving other builds hanging as nonviable except for exceptionally rare situations. Pvp isn’t broken it is well balanced at this point with fun options available. Sadly, there just is not enough variety to make you feel special. Perhaps it was the addition of spectate speeding up the metas. But in game balance and build standardization was bought at the price player creativity. With he loss of possibility, I will join new adventures where the unexpected can happen or be found in pvp. However, this game isn’t over for me and shouldn’t be for anyone. I just wish there were more possibilities.

Chronomancer has too much sustain but need to keep its burst.

Druid has too much healing and too much ai damage.

Thief can still infinitely stealth.

Revenant needs a buff in damage NOT sustain.

Guardians need less cc.

Warriors need a tad bit more damage.

Engineers could use less sustain more damage.

Necromancer is fine but could use some variety.

Elementalist need a nerf to sustain and boons and an increase to damage.

Conclusion: Nerf Sustain. Fights take too long on point, and it is hard to change the direction of a game when no one dies fast enough. Winning a match is starting to depend on which team grabbed two points first.

This doesn’t just affect pvp. It is also affecting dueling which doesn’t matter much, but shows when classes have obvious advantages.

There Are Too Many Stalemates In dueling arenas. These fights should las no longer than 2 minutes (The time it takes the longest elite skills to recharge with reduced Cooldown). And even this is long as a match only lasts 10 minutes (5 chances to turn a game around estimate).

I hate sky hammer and stronghold. May the communities voice be heard.

Dragon-hunter traps should not have CC.

Silverkey.2078:

Anyone who plays mesmer in the current meta knows that 1 condi on shatter is not that much…
I play bunker, with:

• 5 condi cleanse on heal = 0.17 condi/s
• 7 condi cleanse on null field = 0.22 condi/s
• 1 condi cleanse on shatter = 0.18 condi/s
• resistance on F5, null field, and sometimes time warp

So in total, about 0.6 condi cleanse/s, a bit more thanks to alacrity (but this is getting nerfed) and a bit less considering that shatters are used for more than just condi cleanse so they are rarely used on CD.

And at the end, I still melt to condi if focused (in particular by reapers corrupting all the boons since I also get boons on shatter).

You should remember also that this is a heavy investment. Condi cleanse is the main reason a mesmer uses inspiration. We don’t get much more out of this trait line than condi cleanse. Remove it and the whole traitline becomes really really weak.

Compare this to other classes

Mesmer being one of many stronger classes at the moment, I am forced ague the folly in adding condition removal to healing shatters in the inspiration trait line. Mesmers have always had practically perfect condition clear as long as they counter build to it. But this trait only adds make mesmer practically unkillable with condition builds. There is no class that is given 4 heals and 4 condition removal skills without even equipping utilities. The balance I would hope for is similar sustain to other classes abilities in their defensive trait-lines. Otherwise, have it toned down to the other classes and maybe even split this into two traits.

To be honest, if these mesmers did no damage everything would be OK however, with wells that is not the case. The real issue is that mesmers with these three trait-lines can run berserk amulets without sacrificing defense.

Inspiration
- shatter heals and removes conditions
-Remove 2 conditions when you heal
-Summon Defender to take half damage upon successful evasion.
Chaos
-PU aegis, protection, regeneration, and more stealth
-take 3% less damage per illusion
- Mirror of anguish (reflects cc)
Chronomancer
-50% Alacrity duration
-Alacrity after using a well
-Re-summon illusions after shatter
-Ability to use wells (one of which allows invulnerability)

The rest would include defensive options such as continuum split, torch, shield, decoy, sword 2, scepter 2, diversion many of which break stun and or can be sued while stunned

Ultimately No heavy armor class gets these numerous amounts of utility in addition to their damage. Warriors for example don’t get protection regeneration damage reduction free heals and condition removal but rather maybe a few of these if they chose the right healing skill and utility.

And the sad part is that mesmers running this much defense would be unenviable even with berserk amulet except for the fact that continuum split allows for double elite skill casting and a double shatter. I only call it as I see it. I currently, I main Mesmer, but I would really like to play my other classes in peace.

Think ninjas with flaming weapons a fire venom is awesome sounding.

Xillllix.3485:

Well over 20k damage on a single button press at 1200 range on a 3 second cooldown is obviously totally broken. I don’t know what Anet was thinking but it made me stop playing my main class in pvp.

Lol? You must have been playing a mard thief and gotten overkill.

Lol let me state what seems to be happening on this thread.

Killed: Thief has the potential to get a quick surprise kill and players hate that.
Killer: The thief gets his kill but then dies fast and contributes nothing to his team.

People not understanding call for a nerf to builds that can catch you off guard but wont work 1 vs 1. In fact, Scrapper should win all 1 vs 1 vs D/p thief as they can keep constant revealed up time.
Even worse, the thief that is about to be nerfed by public opinion is less effective in team play than other professions (Guardian/Scrapper) especially for point contesting.

Regardless, nerfing surprise attack builds fits the developers style (especially if the community cries).
All I can say now is… I had hope for thieves… Good luck thieves, I will enjoy returning to my Mesmer.

Condition Bomb them they have way too little condition removal.

Hit them with conditions they will never recover.

It’s only played because they added it to the rotation. Players are forced to play it most don’t wan’t to.

At the request of a fellow player I am sharing this build because.. It looks cool.

Build: http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQRAoY4Yn0MBFOh9OBemCkmiFqiy7C+gtrLCCgGY+67+wH-TJRHwA92fAZZAAHFABvAAA

Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2GJp1GFfrQ

Dodge them to death haha.

Hey I like this idea. Just need to add the map specific removal of down state.

Look up the Gw2 CEO and you will understand everything.

Arken.3725:

I think once people realize how easy it is to avoid traps, it’ll be dealt with handily. I think a lot, if not all hatred is misdirected.

As stated above, Scrappers are far tankier while putting out significant pressure. They feel like 2.0 versions of D/D ele’s with the sheer amount of boon uptime, mobility, might-stacking capability and decent CC.

Here’s a picture of a friend I was watching in a duel (who, by the way, only has 7 hours on Engie) with an example of that boon uptime. Mind you, every duel he finished with near 100% health due to the sustain Protection Injection/Scrapper line provides.

They have two instant traps. If they put one down to interrupt you/(your team) good luck dodging them. I don’t support Guardian damage nerf at this point. But I also think this dodging trap idea is a misconception as you can still take damage when you do depending on where the traps are placed relative to each other. Dodging some of their traps requires that you see where they placed an instant trap with no cast time and no animation. I wish people who love DH would stop using this as an excuse because it is the best they have.

DH has too much damage. Solution: let them keep it and buff thief and elementalists and warrior defenses while using zerker or mard amulets. I feel then the classes will be balance around non bunker gameplay due to the high rates of damage in game.

This is why I can’t play GW2 pvp with commitment. Why should I play a game seriously if they keep taking the stuff they give to the players. They add limited time cash shop items. They removed Raid on the Capricorn. They removed Courtyard. They removed rune of the ogre and rune of the pirate. Nerfs that reduce build variety and make builds nonviable rather than toning down abused features. (Yes thieves and Warriors). They even went as far as Rearranging Trait systems for all class outside the realm of balance. I keep trying to help them by telling them things they are doing wrong like removing crafting’s ability as a source of income or listing fees on the trading post that they added to nerf marketers. But the list keeps growing,.

The Game is nice the combat is beautiful the developers’ communistic inconsistency is not.

Lovely AoE damage.

Something has to change. Either thief Hp or Damage levels in game.

Rev’s have reveal abilities so stealth isn’t a big deal anymore. I had an engineer keep me permanently revealed which is a direct class counter and I haven’t caught many very directly. Thief is a sloppy class right now. Basically they poorly designed an assassin class, made a better one, (Rev) and replaced it.

Warriors have been the under-powered class in a large number of mmorpgs I have played. Reason? I feel it is about originality. Warriors are basic class that almost every player will try once. If they made the class played by every player the best, the game’s pvp and pve diversity would suffer.

This Game has always been buy to play. When they release the expansion you don’t lose any previous content. Stop complaining. Some games force you to pay memberships or into the cash shop to be successful.

Don’t nerf I’m enjoying my Dodge to win builds lol.

It won’t be. It has plenty of sustain to keep a solid position. I assume they will give it a nerf similar to mesmer’s pu. Not too extreme.