Guild Wars 2

This is a sustain Defense nerf.

I would approve this in addition to adding increased CD to mesmer shield and mesmer distortion (f4).

Along with increased (double) CD to endure pain or the removal of the endure pain trait.

I would increase the CD of obsidian flesh or make it an channeled mobile block instead of invulnerability.

I would Also reduce Ranger evades or Druid healing significantly.

I would remove the blast finisher on bound and triple the CD on Bandits Defense.

I Still see various sustain issues in the other unmentioned classes as well.

Necro is in a good spot sustain wise, but I would reduce the healing power coefficients for blood magic trait line.

Revenant needs a rework sustain wise free protection and regeneration in dragon stance has to go as well as any healing generated from their weapons. I mean… they already have two healing skills and healing on attack that is enough given their high damage output.

Darkside.7182:

Pets, Amulets etc all are fine. Main problem is anet devs-planners-programmers or whatever..

They keep nerfing pets, dps skills-utilities, condi damage – traits.. but they dont get it “you should create offence and defence balance” so if you going to ask what is this it is pretty simple basic rule of games.

If you choose offensive play, you should lose most of your healing, block and immune abilities..

if you choose defensive play, you should lose most of your dps abilities..

Thats it..

Druids standing on a point, perma healing himself, condi clean and CCing but druid pets hitting around 20k in same time. (you can add druid base dps too and dont wanna talk about search and rescue..)

Elementalist has same problem. Anet keep nerfing them too.. Wake up! you cant fix anything with amulet-trait-utility nerfing.. Elementalist support-heal skills are OP. Should be support-heal or dps-condi. Not healer,supporter,dpser and condi dealer!

Warrior was OP too with same reasons. ultra defensive stance utilities, insane heal regen + top dps..

Now we talking about mesmer too. Many players are saying “mesmer op”. And anet thinking about it, getting all team together and doing brainstorming “guys, what we can do”. Voila! lets nerf mercenary amulet and everything is going to be fine… No its not! let me tell you whats the problem with mesmer. They are hitting a lot of condi. this is normal because they are choosing condi gameplay but they also getting perma condi clean and healing with endless clone create/shatter factory. Can you see? All op classes we talking about has a same base problem, OP healing abilities, OP mixing offensive-defensive gameplay.

Can you fix this? I dont think so
There will be a balanced game soon or future? I dont think so

So, i accepted 1,5-2 years ago. you should do the same. There always will be nerfing and buffing classes but never gonna be a balanced game and healing-support classes always be OP in gw2.

End of the story, thanks for reading

Well this is the frustration I’m trying to end by calling for a sustain reduction.

Fivedawgs.4267:

Zelulose.8695:

If he healed that much he must have had shouts heal on.

Him going all the way to 100% is not feasible even with shout + RR + tempest, in 3 sec the max you reach is 3.3k (2.5k from RR 1.1k from tempest) + adrenal health…. I believe he is confusing defiant stance with adrenal health.

Idk lol. I was just giving him the benefit of the doubt. He probably meant he went back to full not healed 0-100% in that case he would’ve resurrected.

If he healed that much he must have had shouts heal on.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Zelulose.8695:

Reading the employee’s response, I want to indicate that having builds with incredible sustain makes it impossible to use creative builds to win even if you out play the enemy.The major of the non-meta builds I have played simply have one issue. They can’t break the defense of chronomancer, Druid, warrior, guardian, thief, or any class with decent sustain.

Right now the meta with spamming skills and conditions is the only way to dish out enough damage to take someone down. You can’t wait to use an attack currently or you will be out-healed. Without the current ridiculous sustain an passive defenses classes would actually worry about getting interrupted when spamming skills without focus.

Thats not the meta. None of these problems are to do with a meta. It is how the games combat has evolved and it wont and cant change.

I wasn’t making a statement about what is the meta. Reread my post. It is stating that classes have too much sustain resulting in a meta builds that spam. I never called any meta builds out, just classes that have too much sustain.

Israel.7056:

Things that annoy me about conditions in GW2:

1.) Ignores armor, isn’t effected by weakness.

2.) only really requires one offensive stat to be reasonably effective.

3.) Confusion does damage no matter what, torment does extra damage when you move.

4.) Cleanses don’t prioritize the way a player does.

5.) Condis can burst as well as wear down

6.) Too many attacks in this game have some sort of condi application built into them on top of their power effect.

7.) Too much passive application built into traits

8.) Still think burning is a little too strong

Oh I did forget to mention some of these like the ignoring of armor.

Edit: I can add to that. Condition damage is not affected by protection, weakness, armor, aegis, blocks, retaliation (I really wish retaliation proceed per condition dot type), Distortion, evades, many damage immunities, and generally can burst as much as 10k in one second or more. This is Dot damage per second. I wish power was that strong and had no mitigation.

Condition mitiation =

1) removal (hope they don’t reapply)
2) Resistance (Hope they don’t steal/remove this)

There is no contest comparing condition damage to power

Reading the employee’s response, I want to indicate that having builds with incredible sustain makes it impossible to use creative builds to win even if you out play the enemy.The major of the non-meta builds I have played simply have one issue. They can’t break the defense of chronomancer, Druid, warrior, guardian, thief, or any class with decent sustain.

Right now the meta with spamming skills and conditions is the only way to dish out enough damage to take someone down. You can’t wait to use an attack currently or you will be out-healed. Without the current ridiculous sustain an passive defenses classes would actually worry about getting interrupted when spamming skills without focus.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Op you realise i posted the same things 2 yrs ago. It has been a steady trend in that direction and the june trait merge patch and hot were just massive pve inspired power creeps. Its way too late to bring this up. There is no going back now. The ship has well and truely sailed.

I unimstalled this game when i realised everyone had 2 minutes of protection, regen and swiftness just from general passives from spam

This is why I have been arguing to reduce sustain. Players don’t even have to try to maintain healing or defenses right now.

Wolfric.9380:

Zelulose.8695:

Condition damage should not be the alternative to power it should be a suppliment. That way condition damage classes use both attacks and conditions to win while power classes rely solely on power.

I disagree here and this is why evrything else is percieved by condi haters.
I only agree that mesmer is quite anoying and strong with conditions ;-).

I could care less about mesmer. I’m talking about conditions accross the board now that this game has a competitive pvp platform. Most competitive Esport games limit DOT damage significantly.

Many players own multiple accounts to get rich like an investment. It is much more effective than paying for gold over time once you own a few accounts. What’s more is that players sell their accounts cheaply often online when they quit GW2.

I have long argued against the free market of the TP and they way the limit player to player based trade. It takes the economic fun out of the game and some players with multiple accounts further ruin that fun for people. This is why I boycotted pve because it banned every creative way of making money to standardize it.

People like games where they can do something unique to move forward. GW2 overbalancing certain things creates a bland game where everyone has to use the same rout. It is closed minded. In fact I don’t mind them balancing get rich quick schemes I just wish they would only mix them up rather than ban them so players don’t feel they are being more limited every-time they play smart.

I just wanted to highlight why players hate condition spam.

1) You are punished harder for not dodging it.

If you read a condition skill tool tip you will see the thousands of damage the enemy takes from just getting hit by the skill if the condition is not removed.

2) It is annoying to be dying when you not being hit.

Condition damage is the holy grail of passive game play. One hit and they die without you doing a thing besides sitting their. It is worth saying that if a player faces power they have dodge allot more to survive. Verses conditions A few hits means your death unless the conditions are removed.

3) Some conditions cover other conditions.

When you need to remove 20 stacks of bleeding and you remove vulnerability you get pretty upset.

Condition damage should not be the alternative to power it should be a suppliment. That way condition damage classes use both attacks and conditions to win while power classes rely solely on power.

The game Treats conditions like the equal alternative to power but this is not true. Condition damage is significantly easier to use and harder to defend against. This is why player call every condition build cheese.

I say these things in hope GW2 pvp rises to a more competitive level.

I agree. Literally make all Great-sword skill invulnerable. I have no Idea why in the sustain meta the developers would give necros an hp bar that doesn’t stack with their own and leave them with literally no defensive skills besides fear and blind which are more cc than defense. They don’t even have the upper hand in condition spamming or damage dealing anymore. They are just a time ticking meat bag that you just freely hit until they slowly die.

This is guna be a redundant comment for me at this point but what you highlight is a sustain issue. There is too much of it.

Ranger pets need to have a 50% healing reduction. A glass cannon thief can barely kill one within 15 seconds. Ai in this sense is stronger than a new GuildWwars 2 player.

It depends the skills have intervals where they can be hit but these intervals can be interrupted by a dodge which, if done consistently without lag, has overlapping evade intervals. So in the hands of a good play a thief can theoretically dodge everything 100% of the time using active dodges instead of random dodges and timing their skills right.

Guardian can trait for health. The only classes that need a hp boost are elementalists and thief by around 5k so they don’t get one shot for using a berserk amulet.

Its really endure pain fix that and you fix warrior. I feel like warriors should lose the effect after they attack. This is different from a block as it lets them swap weapons and use utility skills.

That would be chaos and…..

Extremely fun!

messiah.1908:

it might seem the right choise for pvp
every class should have role
condimes had 2
good roaming with portal and good 1v1 while also good in holding the point

but warrior now has the same abilities with great regen 880 per sec, immunity to direct dmg for 10 sec, resistance for 24 sec, even if they use viper as their base armor is higher and health pool.

Yes the damage immunity is ridiculous and lets warriors stop using their reaction time to avoid damage.

mrauls.6519:

Zelulose.8695:

I’m just showing evidence. The flip side is guardian weapons don’t do enough damage while traps do too much. They need to fix guardian completely.

Sorry, haven’t been keeping up with things. Evidence of what?

That guardian traps deal too much damage.

I’m just showing evidence. The flip side is guardian weapons don’t do enough damage while traps do too much. They need to fix guardian completely.

No class should be able to do this much damage to this many targets even if it is predictable.

Retaliation counters all damage and really isn’t that useful right now.

Sinister amulet will rise now along with every other condition power amulet.

This is along the lines of what I’m getting at. I hope next patch it is fixed. My dream is that they fix bandits defense as it is the chief source of thief near immortality for the good players saving them in every emergency.

The funny thing is the thief in the most recent video I posted was running sinister amulet 11k hp and didn’t die once.

If anything my thief will have an easier time taking down targets.

When I play chronomancer I often have trouble against shocking aura elementalist. I can win if I dodge well but it definitely counters sword and shatters as long as you stay close to them. Diamond skin can counter some condition mesmers. But it is hard and you probably have to be the better player.

Salamander.2504:

Zelulose.8695:

Salamander.2504:

@Zelulose

I really disagree…DH is not lacking in sustain because it can’t chain together defensive abilities and heals. DH has access to medi heals and can reset virtues with RF, allowing prolonged “defensive chaining” with condi clears. It also has plenty of stability, but is sub-par in the stun-breaking department due to the long CD’s (and casting time) of F3 and JI. DH can chain together defenses with the best of them, and its medi heals are almost unparalleled. DH is weak because it is the only low health-pool class without mobility/disengage (chained defenses only last so long) and has long CD stunbreakers.

I understand this but meditation heals come at the expense of defense or condition removal or damage most classes can have the best of each world but guardian can’t Meditations (healing and utility) means less blocks and less traps.

1) DH doesn’t really have a problem with condi’s due to traited F2, SC on heal and SC on utility bar. Anyways, condi’s are about to become a whole lot less of a problem now that mercenary amulet is removed.

2) Meditations are extremely powerful because they are both offensive and defensive. JI is a stunbreak, teleport, fury, 2k heal, and some burn damage to boot. SC crits for 3k aoe and also provides 2k heal, fury, and condi clear. So going meditations doesn’t actually make the guardian give up defense, offense, or blocks (there is no utility block). The only question is how the guardians use them: busting JI and SC for your opening burst leaves you down 4k health, a condi clear and a stunbreaker, but that’s just part of the risk—the definition of a well designed skill that can be used offensively (start of the fight), defensively (kiting under focus), or both (almost anytime).

3) I’m not sure “most classes can have the best of each world”…that might apply to Rev? Anyways, why would anyone want to take more traps? TOF and heal trap are all you need.

If that is your opinion then fine I was only suggesting something to make dragon hunter more mechanical skill based and less gimpy while solidifying its position in the upper level play. If these changes are deemed unnecessary I would simply look to new changes but the damage will have to go eventually. Guardian will be seeing an even greater damage spike as they face less opponents with the toughness from mercenaries amulet.

Furthermore, as a ranger main for a year and a mesmer main for a good while now trying to learn guardian and thief currently. I will tell you mesmer and thief and ranger will be unaffected by the loss of the mercenaries amulet. There are so many other condition amulets more effective than the merc amulet. If anyone removal of the Merc amulet will hit burn guardian and revenant hybrids the hardest.

Guardian could use some weapon buffs to make builds without traps more viable the nerf to true shot was a bad move.

I really don’t agree with the change but they are doing something so I cant complain. Its better they try to balance then don’t balance at all.

Salamander.2504:

@Zelulose

I really disagree…DH is not lacking in sustain because it can’t chain together defensive abilities and heals. DH has access to medi heals and can reset virtues with RF, allowing prolonged “defensive chaining” with condi clears. It also has plenty of stability, but is sub-par in the stun-breaking department due to the long CD’s (and casting time) of F3 and JI. DH can chain together defenses with the best of them, and its medi heals are almost unparalleled. DH is weak because it is the only low health-pool class without mobility/disengage (chained defenses only last so long) and has long CD stunbreakers.

I understand this but meditation heals come at the expense of defense or condition removal or damage most classes can have the best of each world but guardian can’t Meditations (healing and utility) means less blocks and less traps.

Razor.9872:

Zelulose.8695:

What I want to know is if it coincidence that they responded so quickly to this post out of all the hundreds of other posts. Unless this post was a set up. I make the suggestion as it seems a little coincidental that a person posts and there is such a quick response. In any case I hope this turn of events was’t pre-planned to appease the community. I remain skeptical but hopeful that this isn’t the case.

My apologies, but I am confused. I don’t see any devs responding on this thread?

I’m referring to how this title appeared and magically a post comes that they are removing the amulet as another thread. I was simply calling out the strange nature of the coincidence.

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Zelulose.8695:

Zodryn.4216:

Zelulose.8695:

Snowywonders.1378:

Build is not that strong though, DH’s or decent Scrappers with retal can easily beat you on point.

This falls closely in line with how strong I see the build. Kind of an easy rank up build.

Zelulose.8695:

Please Nerf it.

Umm…what?

Umm that is why I said closely inline. I was vague for a reason. You really must like your thief to directly attack me out of context like this. A change to perma evade or bandits defense shouldn’t bother thief too much anyway assuming they use mechanical skill.

You pretty much said it is only good for ranking up easily, implying it is only good at lower level play. Then you want it nerfed. That is why you make 0 sense. You want something that is only viable vs bads nerfed because you happen to not like it.

No build should be a free rank up. Period. A player who falls in the bottom 10% of people playing a build like this to get to the 75% of players in rank when he doesn’t deserve it will be the result. Builds with a skill cap this low should stay in emerald if not amber. That is my point.

What I want to know is if it coincidence that they responded so quickly to this post out of all the hundreds of other posts. Unless this post was a set up. I make the suggestion as it seems a little coincidental that a person posts and there is such a quick response. In any case I hope this turn of events was’t pre-planned to appease the community. I remain skeptical but hopeful that this isn’t the case.

mrauls.6519:

On your second question…

It’s interesting how the discussion changed so rapidly, lol. Lower skilled players will always have a hard time with DH, but where it counts, at high level, DH isn’t a top contender.

I understand this completely. This is why I also am asking for the reduction of mesmer, revenant, elementalist, and druid sustain. Playing each of these classes I realized guardian isn’t weak because of damage, it is weak because of a lack of rotatable defenses, and healing capabilities. The classes I listed have healing, damage mitigation, and stab ability along with stun breaks and passives to boot. While it is true I wan’t to see a reduction in guardian trapping ability I want to see an increase in guardian weapon damage and a decrease in healing for all of these other classes.

Well pve changes when pvp changes and likewise. They can’t separate the two otherwise people might as well be playing two different games after enough balance changes mix things up. I would say Fix things in pvp and have a pve option to flip a skill to the pvp or pve form. This way the new and updated version of the skill is available to pve and this game mode will be connected to pvp without losing abilities due to pvp balance. This is lightly different from what was done in Guildwars 1 as the skills in pve and pvp are available in pve. Pvp skills of course are limited to pvp. However, it is a complicated issue that amulets are taking the fall for. I wouldn’t call it laziness after hearing the dev’s response. I would call it an emergency strategy due to a lack of options.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Excellent. The viewing figures are incredible. The competitive community is thriving. The removal of solo queue and MMR leaderboards was awesome. Who needs in game tournaments too. And no new maps for 3 years? Some people say that is boring. I say it lets the tactics for those maps be specialized and leads to epic esports.

The new balance system is awesome. Merging all the traits so every spec has everything (damage, sustain, condi clear, stability, etc) was such a great idea. I love spamming skills its so much fun.

So yeh, this game is the pinnicle of skilled esports. I love it. It is Excellent.

Lol

UmbraNoctis.1907:

When will anet realize, that amulets are not the (main) issue?

This. Adding and removing amulets does not affect build diversity. Only stat diversity which we are not in need of. However, let me add that the attempt is much appreciated.

The State of DH would be appropriate as that is where the conversation led us. But ultimately, anything you want to express concerning this thread.

mrauls.6519:

Zelulose.8695:

The same can be said of any play style. Statements like these imply the game is balanced.

If your statement was objective, it would imply that… but that’s your opinion. And thankfully all of this is, simply put, opinions.

True all but opinions. Yet opinions are used to find some mutual ground of agreement. Opinions are often valued based on active analysis and evidence by those who want to find the truth. People who present an unfounded opinion are often looked past. I am interested in your reason for stating your opinion based on some analysis of the class. I may not agree but at least it will be a valid point for all eyes to see when compared to your previous statement.

I am not objective but I try to be.

The same can be said of any play style. Statements like these imply the game is balanced.

Oh it does on uneven terrain. I would ask them to fix the skill’s lack of counter play as well as the buggy pulls it gives.

Salamander.2504:

Zelulose.8695:

Salamander.2504:

Zelulose.8695:

It is worth testing however, I know that the pull is not able to be evaded.

That’s the first I’ve heard of this. Can anyone confirm?

It should also be confirmed that you can’t dodge guardian’s Binding blade pull on great-sword even if that is block-able.

I can confirm that that is dodgeable.

Only for the duration that isn’t interrupted which allows them to chain spear of justice after binding blade. Just tested it again. Edit:The pull is not dodge-able at all. Edit again: None of the pulls are block-able as I just tested it again.

I already complained about getting interrupted by guardian cages and being unable to dodge out of them. But these discoveries are more unsettling considering the effect it has on skill based gameplay even if guardian isn’t overpowered sustain wise. (Spear of justic + binding blade can stop a player for two knockdowns unless they have stab-ability if chained with virtually no other options for counter play.

Salamander.2504:

Zelulose.8695:

It is worth testing however, I know that the pull is not able to be evaded.

That’s the first I’ve heard of this. Can anyone confirm?

It should also be confirmed that you can’t dodge guardian’s Binding blade pull on great-sword even if that is block-able. I honestly don’t think the pulls are block-able either.

It is worth testing however, I know that the pull is not able to be evaded. And the initial tether is unblock-able. The cast time is also a little bit too fast for a projectile of its range.

The issue isn’t perfect balance at this point. It is getting within the ball park which the game is nowhere near. In my opinion this is sustain related.

Spear of Justice needs to be fixed. End the unblock-able pull and make it block-able or remove the cc.

That will end this happening to thief or other non heavy armor class.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nKDTAs4RiA

If the snare on great sword is used it can one shot 5 heavy armor golems In less than half a second. That’s 22,084 health and 2,595 armor according to gw2 wikki.

The traps themselves need to have damage reduced by 10-30% depending on the trap. The more damage the higher percentage of damage reduction.

Zodryn.4216:

Zelulose.8695:

Snowywonders.1378:

Build is not that strong though, DH’s or decent Scrappers with retal can easily beat you on point.

This falls closely in line with how strong I see the build. Kind of an easy rank up build.

Zelulose.8695:

Please Nerf it.

Umm…what?

Umm that is why I said closely inline. I was vague for a reason. You really must like your thief to directly attack me out of context like this. A change to perma evade or bandits defense shouldn’t bother thief too much anyway assuming they use mechanical skill.

The other issue is the ridiculous force traiting just to use a weapon. Why should I have to chronomancer just to use shield? Why should I have to dragon hunter just to use their kills and their long bow. None of the other utilities in the core classes are tied to a trait-line tying the new content to a trait line kills the core classes. A few people would probably rather play illusion or dueling with shield than chronomancer.

(This statement is in regards to people who purchased the expansion and want to play core specs.)

I still think DH has too much aoe cc and damage even if they can’t 1 vs 1 for anything now. They should rebuff true shot and reduce trap damage.

Snowywonders.1378:

I played condi thief a lot last season to get to legend , especially when the other team had more than 1 reaper since condi thief absolutely destroys necro/reaper. It beats revenants too but took longer and could whittle down druids on point.

The next season it probably won’t be as useful since necros will be in less numbers but it looks like warriors will be more popular which is good because condi thief beats any really. Even with the new adrenal health trait.

Build is not that strong though, DH’s or decent Scrappers with retal can easily beat you on point. It’s just a different build to use other than d/p that hard counters some classes.

This falls closely in line with how strong I see the build. Kind of an easy rank up build.