Guild Wars 2

Penguin.5197:

Though for the most part its just like the same six people arguing here

True but also look at the views

True but I think my post is more geared at less passive traits in the future because we have enough of those.

I hope the balancing team explains to us what they plan to do after getting so many posts.

jmatb.6307:

At this point after 1400 tournament games and 3 champion class titles I am completely sick of passive benefits from traits and “skills” that give people an advantage by doing nothing but activate or not activate a skill.

I think traits need to be a series of active choices to choose from. More like Improvisation (steal recharges utilities) than Dagger Training (5% damage from daggers).

Signets, Spirits, Minions, and all other set and forget utilities ought to be reworked to be viable only in PvE.

I believe that the person who knows how to position, use active skills, and win through proper use of team work and tactics without riding passive bonuses ought to be the winner.

When two spirit rangers, two aoe spammers, and a guardian dominate matches that is complete garbage. They are not good players – they have strong builds.

I want active traits and utilities for every profession in PvP and all the passive junk put into PvE, where that kind of thing is needed to scale with enemy mobs.

I have to agree passive traits take skill requirements from the game.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

This explains my point enitrely. Look particularly at the chat panel during the duel.

google

A necromancer or Mesmer would destroy this thief lol

Evade is fine. Everyone has it so its not a balancing issue either.

Lol right? I posted a video of the damage on a test dummy and everyone said it was fine. Anyway people really need to stop with this popular thought that a buffed necro (which will be nerfed) creates a condition meta.

ensoriki.5789:

Zelulose.8695:

ensoriki.5789:

RaynStargaze.6510:

10K BS vs 2.6K armor

just sayin – pretty hard to counter an invisble player who opens for 65% of my hp pool

Ele Burst is strong as well

stop qq about condis – downed burst with power is way better anyway

Ele burst is shocking.
Power still works but condi’s wreck face better.

Thanks to the ice bow frozen glitch you can hit a 20k spike before they can move

Or 16k+ as soon as you lightning flash to them.

Lol so true. I actually complained about this damage but it wasn’t fixed in the following patches so I assumed its the way the devs like the elementalist. It is very fun.

ronpierce.2760:

This time, with an engineer who knows what they are doing….

Even with a skilled engineer, I will be honest. Although both can be faked it is much harder to fake a win than a loss.

ensoriki.5789:

RaynStargaze.6510:

10K BS vs 2.6K armor

just sayin – pretty hard to counter an invisble player who opens for 65% of my hp pool

Ele Burst is strong as well

stop qq about condis – downed burst with power is way better anyway

Ele burst is shocking.
Power still works but condi’s wreck face better.

Thanks to the ice bow frozen glitch you can hit a 20k spike before they can move

Grackleflint.4956:

ronpierce.2760:

I only did the 1 tourney so far, which was a win. I didn’t even have TIME to run multiple XD I’ll try more though, don’t you worry. The main reason id ont want to do 10 is because of how long it takes to process them onto Youtube…

Your sample size is terrible.

Why don’t you just upload the build sucking in a tourney. It’s not very hard to do.

Manuhell.2759:

sorrow.2364:

Don’t waste your time uploading another video, ronpierce.

They will surely say that the enemy team is bad or that the match was staged in a private arena.

Or he can upload only the videos where he wins.
People here insisted so much that the video with the engineer dieing was either staged or on purpose, so the opposite can be true too.
Either you trust all of them, or none.

Penguin.5197:

At this point its gone long enough that I would just like a balance dev to stop lurking behind the forums and tell us their stance on this.

Would be better, indeed. So that we can see if whining about nothing works so well.

The people supporting AR use l2p or stop ranting or we don’t have x so stop complaining about AR while those who are against AR think engineers have enough condition removal or it is ridiculously op just from the description or they compare it to other classes defensive traits. I probably missed alot from both sides but this is the general disagreement.

Manuhell.2759:

Zelulose.8695:

Yes I said "I wonder what people will say to it "because I already figured the people supporting AR would disagree with the video under any circumstances.

That is, the exact same thing that people disagreeing with the trait did before when a video with an engineer dieing was posted.

I know and this is why videos are useless on forums to prove a point.

Penguin.5197:

Zelulose.8695:

Wrong I explained how either way videos can be discredited.

Uh-huh

Zelulose.8695:

I have to say the results from the video are hard to ignore I wonder what people will say to It. What is seen in the video is exactly why I brought up this topic.

Yes I said “I wonder what people will say to it” because I already figured the people supporting AR would disagree with the video under any circumstances.

In any case I hope they fix the engineer to delay point caping rather than prevent it.

Manuhell.2759:

ronpierce.2760:

I’m not going to fraps 10 games for you, but I did fraps one! I’ll upload it and show you guys. 1-2 guys inc, no problem, had good assists, held it like a champ. Very fun.

And for all we know, you could have uploaded the only match you actually won. See how easy is to disprove videos?

You did it as well before, after all.

ronpierce.2760:

Well.. Perma Vigor and Sigil of energy, eh that really wasn’t a big deal. Also, Glue bomb, Big Ol Bomb, shield knockback, perma swiftness, some snares thrown in there, it was a good time.

The first two attacks are telegraphed and one of those has a smaller radius due of untraited bombs; so if anyone wakitten by that, well, just his fault. The shield knockback is fine, but knocking someone outside the point depends on its positioning; again, can be the opponent’s fault (especially since your build is based on kiting the opponent).
Again, you do negligible damage, and there is near to no support there. In a teamfight, assuming the opponents are even able to play, this build is near useless..

Relax it’s a bunker build meant to hold a point not an aoe healing build when there are no allies bunking with him or aoe conditions/raw damage. Hope this clears any misunderstanding =)

Penguin.5197:

ronpierce.2760:

But of course… “They were all just bad and none of them had a place to be in tpvp in the first place!” This argument is endless, I can show you me never dying and I’m still wrong. XD

It is pointless to just keep arguing. The op in that other thread is childish as hell. Wont accept videos where engies die using it but if its the other way around it is a-ok. Such hypocrisy.

Wrong I explained how either way videos can be discredited.

Manuhell.2759:

Zelulose.8695:

Manuhell.2759:

Zelulose.8695:

There are also 2 knock backs and elixir c could be swapped with any other defensive skill if you need a point contesting stun breaker.

The shield is the only one really usable there. But this build suppose that you are running round the point, cause you would be attacked in melee otherwise – so it won’t be easy to knockback the enemy outside
Regarding the Big Ol’ Bomb…if someone gets hit with it, it is entirely its fault. You can see it on the floor and there is a delay on its activation.
And if you switch elixir C for something else you won’t be able to protect from already applied conditions. The antidote from the med kit heals just a single condition and there isn’t anything else regarding condition removals there. No, the 8% trait isn’t enough.

Correction I meant elixir s not c.

Then he can’t protect himself from power bursts outside of the dodges (unless he takes tool kit…and doesn’t use anything else than the cripple and the shield) and a 2s block every 40s. Also, no chance of stability at all. And he still isn’t dealing any damage. In teamfights he would be useless.

Bunkers don’t need awesome damage to support their teams.

Manuhell.2759:

Zelulose.8695:

Manuhell.2759:

Zelulose.8695:

There are also 2 knock backs and elixir c could be swapped with any other defensive skill if you need a point contesting stun breaker.

The shield is the only one really usable there. But this build suppose that you are running round the point, cause you would be attacked in melee otherwise – so it won’t be easy to knockback the enemy outside
Regarding the Big Ol’ Bomb…if someone gets hit with it, it is entirely its fault. You can see it on the floor and there is a delay on its activation.
And if you switch elixir C for something else you won’t be able to protect from already applied conditions. The antidote from the med kit heals just a single condition and there isn’t anything else regarding condition removals there. No, the 8% trait isn’t enough.

Correction I meant elixir s not c.

Then he can’t protect himself from power bursts outside of the dodges (unless he takes tool kit…and doesn’t use anything else than the cripple and the shield) and a 2s block every 40s. Also, no chance of stability at all. And he still isn’t dealing any damage. In teamfights he would be useless.

If he swaps elixir s with another block or stun breaker such as the tool kit for block and cc or elixir gun for extra regen and stun break he will be fine still.

Romek.4201:

oh man – what would be when?

so thats it?

all this nonsense in this thread all bout what would be when ?

this build is so useless – even when this necro could not kill you ( he can but the guy in this video is bad^^) he just could fear you out and takt the point and you would never ever get it back cause you make dmg on him like a wet noodle and have no utilities

this necro is glasscanon like all necros atm? than rly? you never ever get him lower than 80% – wtf you wanna show us?

go with your OPbuild some soloQs – and show video from first 10 matches and let us laugh about how your team fight 4vs5

go do it – show how op it is

wtf

He can’t be feared at 25% hp or could just stun break it. Then knock back to take the point back.

Manuhell.2759:

Zelulose.8695:

There are also 2 knock backs and elixir c could be swapped with any other defensive skill if you need a point contesting stun breaker.

The shield is the only one really usable there. But this build suppose that you are running round the point, cause you would be attacked in melee otherwise – so it won’t be easy to knockback the enemy outside
Regarding the Big Ol’ Bomb…if someone gets hit with it, it is entirely its fault. You can see it on the floor and there is a delay on its activation.
And if you switch elixir C for something else you won’t be able to protect from already applied conditions. The antidote from the med kit heals just a single condition and there isn’t anything else regarding condition removals there. No, the 8% trait isn’t enough.

Correction I meant elixir s not c.

Manuhell.2759:

Zelulose.8695:

There are also 2 knock backs and elixir c could be swapped with any other defensive skill if you need a point contesting stun breaker.

The shield is the only one really usable there. But this build suppose that you are running round the point, cause you would be attacked in melee otherwise – so it won’t be easy to knockback the enemy outside
Regarding the Big Ol’ Bomb…if someone gets hit with it, it is entirely its fault. You can see it on the floor and there is a delay on its activation.
And if you switch elixir C for something else you won’t be able to protect from already applied conditions. The antidote from the med kit heals just a single condition and there isn’t anything else regarding condition removals there. No, the 8% trait isn’t enough.

Well there is always the blinding field and dodge to use. AR really pushes past what should be a bunking limit.

ronpierce.2760:

So… I just did a tpvp, we won.. I bunked home and guess what. I never died… once. o.O and I even frapsed it! It got neutralized ONCE because I went to drop a supply crate on middle since we desparately needed it, but then we got home back, no problem. Didn’t die once. They had an MM necro, thief, warrior, Engi and idk something else…

Well now we probably lost our use for bunker gurdians lol.

nakoda.4213:

Zelulose.8695:

Penguin.5197:

Zelulose.8695:

A person should not last over 2 minutes just running around on a point even in a 1vs1.

Thats what bunkers are supposed to do in 1v1 scenarios.

Then why has every class that could do that had a bunking nerf.

such as?

Cleansing wave for the elementalist

Manuhell.2759:

ronpierce.2760:

I sometimes forget constant healing with bombs that can’t hit any half-decent enemy due of their reduced radius, telegraphed knockbacks like a giant bomb on the field, perma vigor, high uptime regen thanks to a grandmaster trait that require me using bombs that won’t actually hit anyone and a single regen below 25% hp with a non-listed internal cooldown/protection that mainly relies on me getting disabled every 5s and somehow not being knocked off the point despite not having any reliable way of getting stability (cause my tossed elixir has a 50% chance of giving it), perma swiftness, are all things that make for a bad build versus other types too, especially if they are able to play.

Fixed.

oh, and regarding “blocks”, there is a 2s block on a 40s cooldown. Elixir S, as you are invulnerable, makes you unable to contest/hold the point. Amazing, huh.

There are also 2 knock backs and elixir c could be swapped with any other defensive skill if you need a point contesting stun breaker.

Penguin.5197:

Zelulose.8695:

A person should not last over 2 minutes just running around on a point even in a 1vs1.

Thats what bunkers are supposed to do in 1v1 scenarios.

Then why has every class that could do that had a bunking nerf.

nakoda.4213:

your video is a demonstration of a counter build vs the profession and build it is a specific counter to.

let’s see everything else now.

let’s see a 2v1, even.

A person should not last over 2 minutes just running around on a point even in a 1vs1.

Also, power builds damage are absorbed by blocks and protection and the massive amount of healing and regeneration owned by the engineer.

nakoda.4213:

Zelulose.8695:

nakoda.4213:

Zelulose.8695:

nakoda.4213:

im a better bunker thank that video shows and i don’t use AR.

your opponent was on the point the entire time.

The fact that you don’t need AR to bunk just makes AR push past the limit that makes it a little to much in terms of defense.

no, it makes AR a niche build suited only for condi builds.

a good build will be effective against everyone.

But it is effective against everyone.

but it isn’t. necro are one of eight professions.

Rangers rely on conditions, some thief builds do too, the longbow warrior needs conditions, the staff Mesmer needs conditions, the necromancer needs conditions the engineer relies on conditions, and what is a guardian without burn and immobilize?

nakoda.4213:

Zelulose.8695:

nakoda.4213:

im a better bunker thank that video shows and i don’t use AR.

your opponent was on the point the entire time.

The fact that you don’t need AR to bunk just makes AR push past the limit that makes it a little to much in terms of defense.

no, it makes AR a niche build suited only for condi builds.

a good build will be effective against everyone.

But it is effective against everyone.

nakoda.4213:

im a better bunker thank that video shows and i don’t use AR.

your opponent was on the point the entire time.

The fact that you don’t need AR to bunk just makes AR push past the limit that makes it a little to much in terms of defense.

nakoda.4213:

ronpierce.2760:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqel0pCY3zSfF17IxoCdO0jCbf1K6R+1vjB-ToAA1CmI2RBkDIzOSgsAN+Y2A

This is the build I ran.

ya i know, i described it above for you.

good thing im a nontop-1000 ranked scrub who knows nothing about engineers.

it isn’t a very good build.

No slander please I don’t want to have people reported on this thred.

It’s because of this trait that engineers bunk better than any other class in the game.

Manuhell.2759:

Zelulose.8695:

I have to say the results from the video are hard to ignore I wonder what people will say to It. What is seen in the video is exactly why I brought up this topic.

I feel it is quite easy to ignore those.
First, because it can be staged. Exactly like the other video.
Second, because if it wasn’t staged, that necromancer plays really bad. All he would have had to do is a well placed condi burst when the engi healed himself – and thus was above the immune threshold. And he had many opportunities to do that while the elixir C was on cooldown – you can see it from the video itself. Using elixir s wouldn’t have sufficed – you still get damaged by the conditions already applied.
And this should be versus a full condi necro, right? Like, the exact build the trait should counter.
If anything, the only thing the trait would need is a clear visual cue.

You forget that the med kit and the profession skill from elixir c also remove conditions. While his conditions have an 8% chance to be converted into boons

Penguin.5197:

ronpierce.2760:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Nn0lPesyak

Watch the fight if you want, but watch specifically 2:33+

I was looking forward to seeing it but came out dissapointed. Congrats on creating an anti condition build and even building ur hp over 2k and even taking elixir c. But now how would u do with that build when someone power based joins the fight?

I dont play my guard but if I make a bunker to 1v1 me vs someone like say… a warr or thief they arent going to kill me either no matter how much they try.

He had a stun breaker and blocks for power and stability. Also his healing skill recharges at 25% hp. He also had a blinding field.

I have to say the results from the video are hard to ignore I wonder what people will say to It. What is seen in the video is exactly why I brought up this topic.

Manuhell.2759:

ronpierce.2760:

If a non engi player can make an unkillable build versus a very popular and powerful build in literally minutes of creating it, and some engi main is dying and finding it “never useful or saving them”, yeah I’m going to go ahead and say its a problem with the player…

And? For all we can know, your friend may have lost on purpose.
I mean, you people said the same thing with the engineer video, so why shouldn’t the opposite be true as well?
Either all the video are plausible, or no one is.

Even worse people will judge the video to satisfy their opinions they decide who they want to win. In any case I wouldn’t have brought AR if it wasn’t a key engineer skill and any fix to it will not be a delete guarantee.

Manuhell.2759:

Sooo, when someone dies with that trait and posts a video he gets accused of having lost on purpose and when someone else does the exact opposite, it is all fair and square and absolutely not staged.
No, seriously, totally unbiased.

It can all be staged and therefor no one trusts the video

nakoda.4213:

i look forward to the video, ron, but your duel vs a necro is not a proper demonstration of how AR operates in a tournament fight where the necro, presumably on a competent team, will be and OUGHT TO BE, assisted by a teammate when running up against a hard counter like an AR engie.

This is why I felt it pointless to post a video to demonstrate something credibly.

Romek.4201:

you get always the dmg from first tick but NO DURATION CAUSE ITS REDUCED BY 100% = complete (not-100% how some ppl write here)

all your attacks do dmg – how often ppl have to write this till you dont ignore it?

I have not tested that but even if that was true. That would mean stacking 3 stacks of bleeds on hit will only increase the hit damage by 300 so if you hit a 1k now it’s 1.3k but I get your point if this is true.

Maybe one solution is to give it a 10 second duration and a15 second CD at 25% hp

nakoda.4213:

i’m having fun now.

they woke the dragon.

it’s been a couple months since i’ve had a chance to vent my anger towards stupidity on the forums. I must have cleared a few infractions by now, let’s see if i can get banned for setting the house on fire again.

Please try to keep this a discussion and not slander or hate rants XD

What I don’t understand is since all you players claim the skill is useless why don’t you guys run your HGH builds and stop worrying about AR. I only posted this based on the fact that I could delay my death with AR long enough to heal 8k back and repeat the cycle till my enemy dies from multiple conditions. I thought it might be a bit unfair and simply want to bring it to anets attention.

Honestly if you have swiftness and no cripple, and with easy timing, running through a melee warrior will cause him to almost constantly miss you. Just keep him turning around and run back and forth right to his back side.

As that’s a bummer lol I played vindictus and missed the flashy attacks lol but if you guys don’t want it then so be it xD

nakoda.4213:

you didn’t read a thing i said.

@cellulite:

if a bunker engi with AR is running away from the point and melee cannot catch her, the point is clear for you to cap.

job done, move on.

If the engineer runs on the edge of a point they can still kite melee damage.

@Nakoda.4213 We have been over this before. Melee power builds can’t catch the engineer. This rules out the majority of power builds and their effectiveness. Not to mention the protection and weakness the engineer can use to make power useless.

I wanted to suggest to anet that they could add some flashy skills to make players tempted to join the gameplay.
For example, they could make a thief elite skills similar to the whirl that created a mist and has the thief deal extremely quick low damage strikes.

Counter skills such as the Mesmer, warrior, and ranger have could be given some flashy attack animation. As a skill idea, give one to the elementalist that stuns the enemy if they block an attack and charges a fire blast to the chest from their hands.

These are just examples. I would like other player’s opinions and ideas for flashy skills, and I am sure this would catch the eye of alot of potential players.

Grackleflint.4956:

jportell.2197:

Zelulose.8695:

@jportell.2197 I know engineers that run all sorts of builds from grenades to different bunker methods to condition spammers to turret builds. HGH and Flamethrower can be good builds but engineers can do alot more than that and if you play them you will learn that they have variety. It’s because of this variety that AR is too strong a trait.

They still build around that one trait because it is their ONLY reliable defense to conditions unlike other classes aside from mesmer that have multiple defenses against conditions *cough*Necros*cough*.

Also as for suggesting that I look at your posts on builds and traits I am very reluctant to do so simply because of one post you made about asking for a nerf to mesmers. Then used a video in which you got steamrolled by a well known mesmer player while you were clicking your skills in a build that you said was a “super awesome insane damage yet tanky build”. It was a video that showed nothing but poor play and nothing to do with things requiring a nerf. So when you come to ask for a nerf to this trait I am very reluctant to think that it is actually OP based off of past experience from your posts.

HAHAHAHAHA. Okay, yeah—this argument is over. Zel, you lose.

This is the problem with forums. It is not about win or lose. I’m discussing a skill I hope the devs to look at.

It should be hard not to look at a skill when a post about has reached 200+ comments in around two days. I’m not saying nerf but it needs to be examined more closely by the dev’s.