Because we never seem to get a response in our forums anymore I have also started a thread in the spvp forum called “The state of the Mesmer” As expected several people there started saying “Mesmer still OP” Mesmer is fine and doesn’t need buffs… Hopefully you guys can give some input there.
The only class that Truly needs a major buff is warrior other classes only need small adjustments
I’m not saying Mesmer needs any massive buffs… I am saying Mesmer needs FIXED as in the bugs that have been here since release and the bugs that get introduced every single patch and for some reason go completely unnoticed by the game designers. While any bugs that other classes get in patches are hotfixed right away… See most recent game update notes for a reference.
I agree my illusionary leap keeps misfiring around bumps.
Lucky Leaf, Ángël, Clergyman, Side Kick -Lets make Gw2 a better game
And what does it bring besides high single target damage? You said that you have a strong phantasm build? lemme guess it may not be completely right but its something along the lines of 10/20/0/25/5 with 10 points left to spend…. And if it is a proper phantasm build then it likely means you are using off hand pistol and off hand sword… Two strong single target damage only weapons….
No lol your just kidding me right? this new build is seriously awesome. You should duel me.
^If its a phantasm build whats the point? it isn’t gonna do much in a team fight… phtantasms are either the first thing down leaving the Mesmer SOL or it is only single target and then they get a stomp off and the Mesmer is twittling his thumbs for the next 10-15 seconds because both of his damage dealers are on CD.
XD I’m not bashing anyone, I’m just saying this new build is pretty good XD
My entire point at posting in this thread has nothing to do with bashing. it is saying that what you suggested is a flat out nerf… What the Mesmer needs right now for a healthy game is no more nerfs but all the infuriating bugs that get introduced every single patch to be addressed. Also any nerfs that do come about now are most likely going to be riddled with more bugs… Hence why I am adamantly against any more ridiculous and unnecessary nerfs to this freaking profession.
Calm down? This is becoming hostile )=
I have this attitude because I see patch after patch where this road leads… Did you notice how they said in the betas and at release necros and warriors were unstoppable beasts… Did you notice (if you watched SOTG today) how jon sharp mentioned that mesmers had a very amazing shut down build that was nerfed for being too strong and now all those traits revolving around things like that are just sad? Small changes here and there eventually lead to a big broken useless class.
Idk. I see 4 Viable alternate mesmer builds with only one weakness. Phantasm Berserker ammy dps from a good kiting/stealthing mesmer
All Mesmer builds share one weakness… Conditions… And a phantasm berserker Mesmer brings unreliable DPS to the team. I say unreliable because any amount of AOE its a phantasm alive. And if all phantasms are dead then a phantasm Mesmer has no real alternative damage sources… also a phantasm zerker Mesmer that is kiting is not capping a node.
The izerker is invulnerable when whirling the duelist has range. once their burst is threw shatter them the dps will do the team some good for aoe and a single target just pair up.
Lucky Leaf, Ángël, Clergyman, Side Kick -Lets make Gw2 a better game
Ever since I reached r40 on my immortal or phantasm mesmer, I’ve wanted to try something else. I’ve played guardians, necros, and most recently an engineer. And…after a while I simply have to get back on my mes to clear my head again.
I’m spoiled. Is it that I’ve played mesmer for so long that everything feels natural to me, or do other classes really have it that tough? Various classes have their strengths. Necros with their conditions and fears, guardians with their boons, burning and teleports and engis with…well I’m not sure exactly what the engi specializes in.
But my mesmer…oh I can just breeze through people. 1v1, 2v1 (never 3 though and I never willingly attack 2 players at full health. I may be a decent player, but I’m not arrogant ), and a little bit of stealth and a teleport….sigh.
Please someone tell me that as I play my engi more it’s gonna get easier. That the moves will feel more natural. That I’ll become as powerful with the other classes…
I will won’t I?
LOL no
Lucky Leaf, Ángël, Clergyman, Side Kick -Lets make Gw2 a better game
And what does it bring besides high single target damage? You said that you have a strong phantasm build? lemme guess it may not be completely right but its something along the lines of 10/20/0/25/5 with 10 points left to spend…. And if it is a proper phantasm build then it likely means you are using off hand pistol and off hand sword… Two strong single target damage only weapons….
No lol your just kidding me right? this new build is seriously awesome. You should duel me.
^If its a phantasm build whats the point? it isn’t gonna do much in a team fight… phtantasms are either the first thing down leaving the Mesmer SOL or it is only single target and then they get a stomp off and the Mesmer is twittling his thumbs for the next 10-15 seconds because both of his damage dealers are on CD.
XD I’m not bashing anyone, I’m just saying this new build is pretty good XD
My entire point at posting in this thread has nothing to do with bashing. it is saying that what you suggested is a flat out nerf… What the Mesmer needs right now for a healthy game is no more nerfs but all the infuriating bugs that get introduced every single patch to be addressed. Also any nerfs that do come about now are most likely going to be riddled with more bugs… Hence why I am adamantly against any more ridiculous and unnecessary nerfs to this freaking profession.
Calm down? This is becoming hostile )=
I have this attitude because I see patch after patch where this road leads… Did you notice how they said in the betas and at release necros and warriors were unstoppable beasts… Did you notice (if you watched SOTG today) how jon sharp mentioned that mesmers had a very amazing shut down build that was nerfed for being too strong and now all those traits revolving around things like that are just sad? Small changes here and there eventually lead to a big broken useless class.
Idk. I see 4 Viable alternate mesmer builds with only one weakness. Phantasm Berserker ammy dps from a good kiting/stealthing mesmer
Lucky Leaf, Ángël, Clergyman, Side Kick -Lets make Gw2 a better game
And what does it bring besides high single target damage? You said that you have a strong phantasm build? lemme guess it may not be completely right but its something along the lines of 10/20/0/25/5 with 10 points left to spend…. And if it is a proper phantasm build then it likely means you are using off hand pistol and off hand sword… Two strong single target damage only weapons….
No lol your just kidding me right? this new build is seriously awesome. You should duel me.
^If its a phantasm build whats the point? it isn’t gonna do much in a team fight… phtantasms are either the first thing down leaving the Mesmer SOL or it is only single target and then they get a stomp off and the Mesmer is twittling his thumbs for the next 10-15 seconds because both of his damage dealers are on CD.
XD I’m not bashing anyone, I’m just saying this new build is pretty good XD
My entire point at posting in this thread has nothing to do with bashing. it is saying that what you suggested is a flat out nerf… What the Mesmer needs right now for a healthy game is no more nerfs but all the infuriating bugs that get introduced every single patch to be addressed. Also any nerfs that do come about now are most likely going to be riddled with more bugs… Hence why I am adamantly against any more ridiculous and unnecessary nerfs to this freaking profession.
Calm down? This is becoming hostile )= and is why many necessary fixes don’t happen. Lay some more evidences like other classes that are defeating your mesmer. If mesmer already has problems with other classes then maybe they don’t need a fix. Although I never hear a mesmer complain about any classes only classes complaining about mesmer and thief.
Lucky Leaf, Ángël, Clergyman, Side Kick -Lets make Gw2 a better game
Because we never seem to get a response in our forums anymore I have also started a thread in the spvp forum called “The state of the Mesmer” As expected several people there started saying “Mesmer still OP” Mesmer is fine and doesn’t need buffs… Hopefully you guys can give some input there.
The only class that Truly needs a major buff is warrior other classes only need small adjustments
Lucky Leaf, Ángël, Clergyman, Side Kick -Lets make Gw2 a better game
And what does it bring besides high single target damage? You said that you have a strong phantasm build? lemme guess it may not be completely right but its something along the lines of 10/20/0/25/5 with 10 points left to spend…. And if it is a proper phantasm build then it likely means you are using off hand pistol and off hand sword… Two strong single target damage only weapons….
No lol your just kidding me right? this new build is seriously awesome. You should duel me.
^If its a phantasm build whats the point? it isn’t gonna do much in a team fight… phtantasms are either the first thing down leaving the Mesmer SOL or it is only single target and then they get a stomp off and the Mesmer is twittling his thumbs for the next 10-15 seconds because both of his damage dealers are on CD.
XD I’m not bashing anyone, I’m just saying this new build is pretty good XD It’s speced like phantasm but not exactly phantasm…
Lucky Leaf, Ángël, Clergyman, Side Kick -Lets make Gw2 a better game
And what does it bring besides high single target damage? You said that you have a strong phantasm build? lemme guess it may not be completely right but its something along the lines of 10/20/0/25/5 with 10 points left to spend…. And if it is a proper phantasm build then it likely means you are using off hand pistol and off hand sword… Two strong single target damage only weapons….
No lol your just kidding me right? this new build is seriously awesome. You should duel me.
Lucky Leaf, Ángël, Clergyman, Side Kick -Lets make Gw2 a better game
I see a nerf coming with so many complaints thus far about phantasm damage. I was just proposing the idea to express that we can fix their damage without nerfing phantasms. While possibly helping the damage of other mesmer alternate builds
Mesmers get nerfed or bugged every single kittening patch… phantasm Mesmer is strong dueling and that is it…nothing else they do is any good for a team
My recent op mesmer is perfect for teams
Lucky Leaf, Ángël, Clergyman, Side Kick -Lets make Gw2 a better game
Normally I would be supporting you but… It just so happens that my thief can dodge strait until his healing skill recharges without initiative spend on s/d skill 3
Lucky Leaf, Ángël, Clergyman, Side Kick -Lets make Gw2 a better game
Yeah, but you won’t be killing anyone as there is a fine line between being able to make a push for the kill before someone’s heal recharges and not being able to.
They can nerf pet damage all they want. As long as My conditions stay It won’t matter.
Lucky Leaf, Ángël, Clergyman, Side Kick -Lets make Gw2 a better game
Lol kind of useless, we’re only so strong 1v1 because we can outlast anything, slightly reducing one of our damage sources wont change the fact that we can’t die, we’re still going to easy mode own 1v1 just now slightly slower.
If they want to make us not as uber 1v1 but still strong and viable they should hit our regen and use that to buff our pets not nerf them.
This is true. Rangers tank batter than guardians in some cases. I often 3vs1 with Lucky Leaf
With pet dps taking a hit we need some other viable build option besides bm/regen ranger
Lucky Leaf, Ángël, Clergyman, Side Kick -Lets make Gw2 a better game
No-one should be having undue trouble vs a GS/sword-pistol mes. Without even considering the fact that GS currently has very heavily bugged damage, that weapon combo has NO survivability.
AoE and terrain cause huge amounts of trouble for phantasms and a phantasm build is basically only good in 1v1 play for that reason.
If you are having significant trouble vs Mesmer I would recommend playing the class to get a feel for it. sPvP provides the option to mess about with a maxed rank 80 of any class really easily. It’s great for getting a better perspective on class balance, because the reality is that all classes have some really solid builds.
Well If you are absolutely sure mesmer is fine the way it is so be it. I recently found out something that makes phantasm practically invulnerable while keeping the damage extremely high and can say now that mesmer is my favorite class. If they don’t need a nerf then it is ok. I am happy with the classes as they are. I just would rather bleeds get fixed than my precious phantasms and I guarantee a future mesmer damage nerf is coming eventually.
Lucky Leaf, Ángël, Clergyman, Side Kick -Lets make Gw2 a better game
So guys I just made the most op mesmer build and i sure as hell wont spill it because it will get nerfed. This phantasm build has not lost. The only hint you can get is dueling meh or spectatin meh XD
I was just curious why I and others call for class fixes when we could simply buff the under-powered classes instead of nerfing the overpowered classes If classes kept getting buffed, the game-play would get faster and faster and people would always feel good about their classes changes.
Lucky Leaf, Ángël, Clergyman, Side Kick -Lets make Gw2 a better game
So guys I just made the most op mesmer build and i sure as hell wont spill it because it will get nerfed. This phantasm build has not lost. The only hint you can get is dueling meh or spectatin meh XD
Lucky Leaf, Ángël, Clergyman, Side Kick -Lets make Gw2 a better game
Dear Anet, I know people look to phantasm or shatter for a nerf, But they might not be the problem. The real problem may be their bleed stacking ability. Running a berserk ammy, mesmers are guranteed 10-15 stacks of bleeding from duelist and izerker. They already do enough damage without the bleeding. There is no problem with mesmer bleeding being effective with a shamans or rabid ammy. However, one class shouldn’t be able to deal raw damage and bleed at the same time. This gives them both raw dps and condi dps. something most classes can’t do effectively like a mesmer can. Phantasms and shater are fine the way they are, rather, a bleed fix is sure to even out the playing field without a nerf to shatter or phantasms. Maybe moving the trait would even fix the problem.
It’s not the mesmer it’s you. When you can’t kill a specific class it’s because you don’t know much about that class or the player is simply better. Honestly people who always complain when they lose like you are the people who BRING THE GAME BACKWARDS. Why? because you are asking for a nerf in order for you to beat this class cause you suck. Look at the elementalist due to people complaining non stop it has become into a broken useless class. Now asking for mesmer to get non stop nerf next will surely put people off. I’m tired of these nerfs here nerfs there don’t people realise that with constant changes IT RUINS THE GAME!
Lets not bash people. Try to explain why the phantasm build should or shouldn’t be fixed please. It quotes like this that prevent a possibly necessary fix from happening. Maybe I’m wrong, maybe I’m right but we will never know if we keep bashing each other’s play style.
I would like to hear other opinions on fixing the phantasm mesmer in a more agreeable way or hear more on why they should stay the way they are.
Lucky Leaf, Ángël, Clergyman, Side Kick -Lets make Gw2 a better game
I see a nerf coming with so many complaints thus far about phantasm damage. I was just proposing the idea to express that we can fix their damage without nerfing phantasms. While possibly helping the damage of other mesmer alternate builds
Lucky Leaf, Ángël, Clergyman, Side Kick -Lets make Gw2 a better game
Your right virtually every where you put it it can be used by phantasmal builds. The best bet is to move it to 25 in Illusions and swap it for Shattered strength. The only other option would be 25 in domination.However, placing it in domination would not help condition builds. It also could become a Major trait in illusions since illusions is condition damage but I would go with the first option. By doing this mesmers would have to spec for condi to get their bleeds and sacrifice power and critical damage, or give up defense for power/precision traits and bleeding.
So you want shattered strength to be 15 into dueling? Where nothing is ever mentioned about shatters…..
You make a good point. However, one may argue that it also doesn’t make sense that such a heavy condi skill should be placed in an aria where there is no condition duration or condition damage bonus. Its also a better move than removing a portion of phantasm damage.
Lucky Leaf, Ángël, Clergyman, Side Kick -Lets make Gw2 a better game
Yes, I definitely would say moving it to 25 in Illusion and swappign it for shattered strength would best benefit condition mesmer while preventing the phantasm mesmer from dodging for clones for a quick shatter and preventing them from using the power trait to increase phantasm damage. It would cause the mesmer to choose condition based damage or power based damage.
Lucky Leaf, Ángël, Clergyman, Side Kick -Lets make Gw2 a better game
Your right virtually every where you put it it can be used by phantasmal builds. The best bet is to move it to 25 in Illusions and swap it for Shattered strength. The only other option would be 25 in domination.However, placing it in domination would not help condition builds. It also could become a Major trait in illusions since illusions is condition damage but I would go with the first option. By doing this mesmers would have to spec for condi to get their bleeds and sacrifice power and critical damage, or give up defense for power/precision traits and bleeding.
Lucky Leaf, Ángël, Clergyman, Side Kick -Lets make Gw2 a better game
Moving the trait doesn’t solve anything. And there are 3 reasons:
- Moving this trait to 3d minor or become it a grandmaster duel trait won’t do anything. Because mesmers would redistribute the traits to get it. By the way, some phantasm builds already uses 30 points in duel, so in the end it will be the same as now.
- Moving this trait to illusions (most reasonable one) will make to move one of illusions to duel. And since most traits of illusions are based on shatters, it has no sense.
- Moving this trait to another rather than duel or illusions it’s even more nonsense. It is based on cond. damage and critical hits. Chaos and inspiration are discarded, since they are defensive lines. Domination traits are based on cc and doing more damage. It’s true that there are some traits about conditions, but they don’t depend on critical hits.
So if we want to be logical, Sharper images can only be in duel line.
You bring up a good point. I’ll look into this before responding.
Lucky Leaf, Ángël, Clergyman, Side Kick -Lets make Gw2 a better game
Is there any aspect of the Mesmer that people aren’t crying over?
“Phantasms are too strong.”
“Moa Morph is over-powered.”
“Into the Void needs nerfing.”
“Clones are unfair.”
“Blurred Frenzy is too powerful.”
At this point I just assume that anyone complaining about a Mesmer is a bad player. The only complaint that our profession is getting right now that’s actually valid is the fact that phantasm builds are nigh unbeatable in a 1v1, which itself is justified considering they suck in group situations. Any spec that commits entirely to 1v1 should be powerful.
As for this topic, trying to fake good intentions by saying “instead of a shatter nerf, just do this” does not make you anymore credible. How about… instead of a shatter nerf, nerf nothing, because nothing is over-powered. Forum whiners are a minority of bad players that are hurt they lost to a Mesmer in pvp/wvw and want ANet to solve their problems of “L2P” for them so that they don’t have to put in the effort to do exactly that.
I’m not calling anyone a noob, but yes most complain about key mesmer mechanics that probably won’t get fixed. This change may stop their screaming while also benefiting condition builds without adding or deleting skills. All the screaming may be about different mesmer abilities but its really geared towards the damage of the phantasm mesmers that use pistol and the izerker. With a change possibly coming up to mesmers in the future, it seems that bleeding is the best place to to change without destroying the mesmer’s Game-play and damage all togather.
Lucky Leaf, Ángël, Clergyman, Side Kick -Lets make Gw2 a better game
With all the Mesmer bugs and nerfs… we are lucky if the iZerker actually hits u… all you have to do for that guy is stand still and wow… you took 1k damage at the most… and one stack of bleed SO OP! I duelist is strong but it is one of our only strong phantasms in general… iWarden is easily dodgeable and he just stands there, Swordsman, Warlock and mage all do 1 attack per rotation so all you have to worry about from them is one stack of bleeding, iZerker once again is bugged so as long as you stand still… you will likely only get one stack of bleeding… therefore the only phantasm you need to worry about is iDuelist and one dodge negates half their damage and bleed stacks…
Its moving the trait not nerfing it. If the stacks of bleeding are not op you have nothing to worry about if it is moved. The trait wouldn’t vanish, rather, it would save condition mesmers 5 trait points
Lucky Leaf, Ángël, Clergyman, Side Kick -Lets make Gw2 a better game
Dear Zelulose, I know people die to phantasm due the bleed stacking and raw dps, but the problem does not lie at the phantasm. The real problem is that people like you don’t know the ability ’’dodge’’ and forget to kill or run away from the phantasm so they wont do their attack again. If our class got barely any way to gain swiftness, condition removal or any way to deal damage without relying on clones with that build then Idk what the hell you’re QQing about. I’d suggest you to just move along to the thief forum and make at least 10 complaints there. Because, after all, thief is much more annoying on many ways than mesmer, don’t you think?
Man, walls of text are sure hard to read
I understand the use for dodge. I tested a constant evade thief vs a mesmer and if I stopped dodging for less then a timed second I would get at least 3k damage and 5 stacks of bleeding. The damage is too broad for even 4 dodges in row, but i’m glad u brought up the dodge question. Phantasm damage is standard i’m speaking about moving a trait to a more condi based aria not nerfing it.
Lucky Leaf, Ángël, Clergyman, Side Kick -Lets make Gw2 a better game
Actually your wrong, I want to help them. By moving the trait to a place where condi mesmers need it and berserk ammy mesmers won’t use it without condi traiting.
Lucky Leaf, Ángël, Clergyman, Side Kick -Lets make Gw2 a better game
Considering moa has a super long CD and that it has a relatively short duration, I think it is working as intended.
Yeah, you’re probably right.
I think, in this case, they should give Necromancer an elite skill which transforms the enemy in a little ambient Spider Hatchling (you know, the ones who gets 500k damage on any hit).
OP? No, you silly boy! It would be on a 5 minutes cooldown and 3 seconds duration! Perfectly fine and working as intended.
So basically mm is no longer viable in spvp as long a mesmer brings moa.
Lucky Leaf, Ángël, Clergyman, Side Kick -Lets make Gw2 a better game
Spectator mode should show the game play dodging timing etc. Not a players traits and armor. The top tier builds are being distributed too fast and everyone is going to start running basically the same spec and runes.
All the builds were already known.
XD I have some that have yet to go viral. And one of my builds is becoming viral /=
Lucky Leaf, Ángël, Clergyman, Side Kick -Lets make Gw2 a better game
I was thinking along the lines of low flight not flying way up into the sky and over mountains and they could add a npc around jumping puzzles to explain no flight over jumping puzzle arias.
Lucky Leaf, Ángël, Clergyman, Side Kick -Lets make Gw2 a better game
Dear Anet, I know people look to phantasm or shatter for a nerf, But they might not be the problem. The real problem may be their bleed stacking ability. Running a berserk ammy, mesmers are guranteed 10-15 stacks of bleeding from duelist and izerker. They already do enough damage without the bleeding. There is no problem with mesmer bleeding being effective with a shamans or rabid ammy. However, one class shouldn’t be able to deal raw damage and bleed at the same time. This gives them both raw dps and condi dps. something most classes can’t do effectively like a mesmer can. Phantasms and shater are fine the way they are, rather, a bleed fix is sure to even out the playing field without a nerf to shatter or phantasms. Maybe moving the trait would even fix the problem.
Lucky Leaf, Ángël, Clergyman, Side Kick -Lets make Gw2 a better game
From jumping to underwater combat, Gw2 has added what gw1 lacked. Flying has been discouraged because of the map system in gw2. The developers don’t want people to just Fly over difficult arias. However, I believe its possible.
1. They could make it possible to fly over discovered arias only.
2. Flying could have a short duration so large arias cannot be flown over to skip content.
3.Along with short flight duration, flight could be given longer cool downs.
Benefits of flight would be aerial combat and a more free feeling environment.
Lucky Leaf, Ángël, Clergyman, Side Kick -Lets make Gw2 a better game
I already died to phantasm burst as necromancer. It only makes it worse that I lose my minions for 15 secs-40secs at the start giving me no utility skills as mm and no healing for 16-20 seconds.
Lucky Leaf, Ángël, Clergyman, Side Kick -Lets make Gw2 a better game
Spectator mode should show the game play dodging timing etc. Not a players traits and armor. The top tier builds are being distributed too fast and everyone is going to start running basically the same spec and runes.
Lucky Leaf, Ángël, Clergyman, Side Kick -Lets make Gw2 a better game
Using Moa on a necromancer kills all his minions and puts them on CD. For necromancer this is really unfair. No elite skill can do this to necromancer instanly.
Lucky Leaf, Ángël, Clergyman, Side Kick -Lets make Gw2 a better game
Lol yes warriors do suck. They don’t seem to suck in the begining but theb you realize all classes have a build that is potentially op. Warrior does not have that.
Lucky Leaf, Ángël, Clergyman, Side Kick -Lets make Gw2 a better game
), and a little bit of stealth and a teleport….sigh.