BTW seriously, stop saying it “just decreasing time, total damge is the same”.
If 100b animation completed in 0.5 seconds with unchanged damage that would be also ok by this logic?
Again, by the same logic, quickness is a really underwhelming effect, all it does is decrease you action times! total damage is the same for individual skills!
This is a very well argumented and written post.
Wars were due for a little shaving, i think we can agree on that, but the way anet did it is totally illogic.
The “ONE BUILD” that was arguably too strong and evryone hated? Hambow.
The build that suffers laest from changes? Hambow.
Well played.
I’ll just add a particularly emblematic example to this:
Axe skill 5: it has always been a subpar skill because the damage was low compared to axe AA, with just the little niche of being able to dodge whitout breaking it.
What does anet do to “buff” it? Lower CD (why would i want to use it more often if i don’t use it anyway?), buff damage a bit (but still not enough to make it viable) and take away the dodge-while-spinning part.
Net balance: the skill was better when it was worse. And that’s exactly what i feel about most of anet “balance” changes. Having played condi warrior a lot i feel the only well thought nerf was reducing impale uptime, that skill was way too good.
maybe he only met 2 opponents, and 1 was a GS warrior?
would make 50% just right
explain how will you put your catas further from the wall in hills. only spot that looks viable now is the cliff one and it doesn’t have the ability to hit both walls. might be just as bad depending on how the disabler interacts with the Z-axis.
it’s probably too early to judge
the damage total of the skill might have been the same, but the dps has been doubled.
“you can dodge it easier now what’s to complain about?” isn’t really a valid argument, it’s not like after the rapid fire channel the ranger has a windup time of 2 seconds where he can’t use other skills.
let’s say 100b had half the casting time it has now, would people just say “damage is the same, it’s easier to dodge it now”
if i die in s/tpvp i get a long-ish respawn timer and 5 points to the enemy.
if i die in wvw i might be unable to do whatever other stuff i was doing (scouting, supply running, joining a zerg, whatever, admittedly it’s less impactful than pvp)
why would anyone stay and die given the option not to?
eles are rarely that abundant and much too valuable to just equip subpar weaponsets on. you need staff eles in your zerg, dedicating 5 or so to projectile protection can’t be good when a real fight happens.
i’m sure some people will do it but it’s not something i’m looking forward to at all.
not to mention it’s an aoe skill, it could still be possible to throw one just outside your barrier range and still hit some siege inside the protected area if you don’t execute it perfectly (or just sneak a throw inbetween casts if you don’t time it perfectly)
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“Does anyone know if you can blind the skill, or destroy the projectile?”
it can be destroyed and negated by every projectile absorbing skill, reflecting skills also destroy it if i’m not mistaken (but whitout the reflecting bit), this puts the skill on full cooldown.
“Now signet of rages gives even more adrenaline = more cleanse!”
the amount of adrenaline signet gives is negligible, and it’s active got nerfed so your point is?
also i got no player issues sorry, i sit comfortably in the somewhat-above-average tier and play regularly 4 out of 8 classes in pvp and wvw and warrior isn’t the easiest to play.
btw easy to play does not always mean strong.
as an example i consider my necro a lot easier to play, insatnt ranged cc, ranged tracking skills, marks that have no distinguishing tells… it’s weaker than warrior because it lacks in important areas but that doesn’t mean it’s harder to play mechanichally.
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make it disable a single siege weapon on a line of sight basis/direct projectile hit and it’s fine. could up the duration a little bit too to compensate.
popularity among pugs doesn’t say much about a class real performances most of the time.
i can’t count how many times me and my girlfriend (which run whatever 2 classes we feel at the moment but always try to synergise the two in pve) joined a “5k+ expert” group only for the host to go “wow that was so easy, my prev group failed so hard they were all nabs”.
it’s not about god mode or not, it’s about the fact that a game mechanic that becomes stressful to players is bad design and bad for the game.
nerfing numbers is ok, tweaking cds and stuff is ok, making it so players need to stress over their tiny resource bar running out if they ever relax for a moment is not.
can we please stop comparing the warrior rifle to ranger LB? it’s silly.
yes, volley is a good skill, possibly comparable to rapid fire. but then LB has a stealth, a knockback and an AOE skill, rifle has… a stupidly easy to dodge killshot which incidentally uses up your class mechanic.
i like playing with rifle but it’s a niche weapon at best on warriors.
fractal 50 is a VERY specific thing, it’s probably less than 0.1% of the game content and something more than 50% of the player base will never do. I agree eles are a bit too squishy to do fractal easy but pve is a lot wider than that. they are a-ok up to 40 scale or so.
It’s like saying that X is underpowered because they are bad at solo lupicus.
was having a raid yesterday, attacking enemy t3 garrison and towers was just stupid, 1 -2 defenders could stall everything indefinitely.
i guess the only saving grace is that now once you’re in there’s no way to banner lord but i’m not so sure i like that either.
thief steal only dazes you, gets your boons, teleports the thief in close range and provides it with useful bundles (in the most popular builds, but it could do other stuff such as healing, poison, weakness, confusion, ini regen, cd reset and whatever, don’t remember it all off the top of my head).
but that’s their class mechanic after all.
i’m not arguing warrior overall state, just contesting the fact that it’s east to land warrior comboes when in fact other classes have it just as easy.
you are missing my point:
“Hur dur I’m a wuriuuh, I don’t want to have to hit people!!!!1111”
because, clearly, landing a hammer shock is easier than a necro mark or a thief steal.
tell me it’s easier to play a warrior (whatever build) than a turret engi, go on. we’re waiting.
considering they nerfed every “wall rush” kind of skill, it comes as no surprise that flesh golem is also affected? it would actually be unfair if they only left it on that one skill.
elementalist is in a very nice spot right now, viable or good in every game mode and with a decent build diversity whitout being OP.
no reason to complain?
only problem with ele is that being naturally squishy it sometimes needs team support not to implode and pugs genrally do not provide that (pve or pvp alike)
personally i have a lot of fun on my ele at the moment.
oh yes, so typical of warriors, those silly bunch that get upset because the only thing the dev made look cool from the patch end up being nearly worse than what we had before.
aside from that skill?
is it really easier for a warrior to land his hits comapred to… let’s see…
minion necro?
shroud fear? /necro marks?
turret engi?
point blank grenades?
thief blinks? (not saying thief is easier to play than war, but skills are easier to land)
ele scepter burst? (this is tough because it’s fast but the individual casts are all istant)
pu mesmer crap?
i could go on with a list but what i mean is warrior has the most telegraphed skills out of all classes on average and almost no skills which allow no reaction time to your opponent.
yes, combustive shot is easy to land, there’s a reason war has been nearly pidgeon-holed into that weapon for the past year.
so let’s see:
pve damage nerfed (gs damage and adrenaline decay)
wvw utility nerfed hard (goodbye banners)
pvp doesn’t need commenting
+slap in the face:
new “reworked” GS burst is a joke, give me back the old one at least i’ll just keep forgetting it exists rather than be reminded every time about how much it sucks
and even funnier, i thought they wanted to buff axe offhand skill 5? like… buff damage and reduce cd ok… it’s still going to be bad overall dps but WAIT! you can’t dodge during it anymore now taking away it’s only niche. HAHAHAHA NICE “BUFF”.
that’s pretty silly to say considering that out of all classes the warrior is the one that needs the most work to hit anything (no instant/no-projectiles skills like necro scepter autos or ele air attune hit, no blink hits like steal or judge intervention, no instant long range aoes like lava font… all our skills are slow, highly telegraphed, no blinks and generally short range)
if combustive shot is prevented from reaching the ground (like firing it inside a swirling winds) it cleanses nothing, so it does need to hit (the ground).
definitely harder: deep freeze is a lot easier to notice even in a crowded fight (also coming with a very distinct sound cue), requires you to “precast” it (by equipping icebow) which will warn anyone familiar with the skill and finally it fires a very slow, wobbly moving projectile.
it’s basically only ever going to work in combination with blinks of some sort, cc from other party members or afk players.
i can already see the next patch:
GS: we felt the new burst did too much damage so we reduced arcing slice by 30%.
since we reduced skill 2 and 3 damage because of the new arcing slice we will also reduce those 2 by a further 5% because reasons.
Engineer: now engineers rifle jumpshot is an execute because engineers are chinese and liek to copy other classes. the skill is now called ar-chi slice.
hint: “you can dungeon” with 5 of any class.
in wvw warrior dps is at best average.
the only thing making warriors strong in pvp is how well their skills and design synergize with fighting over a small point. take the small points away and warriors would be in the lower tiers for pvp.
also on passive play: because turret engi, minion necros and PU mesmers are so much more active.
warriors “better stop” QQing about nerf?
or else? you going to spank them?
healing shouts in pve, shake it off? are we even serious anymore?
fury uptime? eles can do that better
might stacking? you guessed it, ele can do it better (phalanx wars can too, but low personal dps)
condition removal? guardians anyone?
…healing in pve? what? i hope it was meant as sarcasm and i missed it
dps? most other classes do it better
so what does warrior have left as the thing they do best? dropping 2 banners, wow!
why people want warriors is because, in a world of pugs, they are easy to pick up (so less screw ups from pugs) and have good versatility. compare with a full glass cannon ele: it can do much better but it’s also a lot easier to go BOOM if you mess a dodge or (like in some bosses may happen) someone in your team is charged to reflect projectiles and he screws up (where a warrior is a lot more likely to live through a mistake like that).
people don’t want multiple warriors because they are OP, they want warriors because either they believe a bad warrior won’t impact them as much as a bad thief (which is likely going to be dead 90% of the time) or because they are BAD and have no clue.
people ask for more warriors because:
a) a bad warrior will do ok, a bad guardian will kiss the dungeon floor
b) people that ask for “exp only, 10k+ ap, 2 warrior 2 ele, gear check” are bad, or possibly really bad
warrior should be a great fit, especially IF gs is any good after patch (hard to tell now)
on the flipside it’s a lot easier to blast a water field if you know it’s going to be there 1 sec before instaed of having to react to it.
“Yes, you’re right, that’s one thing I did not take into account, but that is mainly because I do not participate in server VOIP options because I have no need for them and I don’t like to hear voices of other players, often just yelling, cursing, and barking orders saying “DO THIS YOU NOOBS!” I coordinate via the in-game chat. As inefficient as you may find it, it is more than enough for me to enjoy playing."
awwwww man I understand you really, all those people having fun on their own stupid ts, but you don’t need any of that crap, you can play the community-based gamemode on your own no need for those guys.
let’s go to the forums and propose others shouldn’t have their fun either.
they are the strongest race individually (on average), just not as strong as some people make them out to be.
you know, if we take natural selection into the equation it sounds logical that asuras would eventually become really smart if they considered being smart the most important feature in sexiness.
Oh no! Such wit! Can’t sustain it!
Guardian deals more damage, Elementalist deals more damage, Thief deals more damge and at least the first two have comparable or superior party support: nerf warrior because?
except the warrior nerf were poorly done because they only marginally impact what everyone hates about warriors (hambow) but strongly hurt weapons which are subpar already (rifle, mace?)
the only weapon that gets rightly hurt by the nerf is probably axe, which has a really strong burst and deserved to at least lose adrenaline on a miss.
warrior had their CLASS MECHANIC heavily nerfed (both by losing it when missing and losing it exiting combat), signet of rage nerfed for no reason, a dps nerf to their most used weapon, a nerf to impale (one of the best condition based skills) and a nerf to zerker stance just out of my head.
to compensate they had a buff to GS burst (might be the only interesting bit), a LOL buff to signet of rage adrenaline generation (0.5 strikes every 3 second? that’s beyond worthless) and minor tweaks here and there.
how can anyone say warrior “won” this over, say, guardians who only received buffs?
it’s a very good skill already, go tell eles your elites suck.
even if guardian buffs were:
- base hp increased to match warrior’s
- all blink skills are now ground targeted (with no restrictions or conditions)
- halved cd on all virtues
people would still find ways to complain
1) never going to happen, that is a ranger class mechanic exclusive.
2) would be cool, but it looks like the idea anet has on the subject is “you want heal in DS you get the trait that does it”, at best we might see a tweak to that someday.
3) might happen in 6 months or so, but why only dagger? necro has plenty of way-too-long animations/channels.
lich is being nerfed in both duration (not sure if that was necessary) and in its unfair interaction with sigils, wells and chill of death (did i get the trait name right?), and even then it wasn’t such a good skill in pvp to begin with.
i don’t see what the lich hate is for honestly nor do i see how power necroes are broken.
impale nerf is fine, that skill can nearly 1hit a thief in pvp, 8 sec is still a pretty long time.
agreed on adrenaline nerf being a bit severe, imho it will make specs that rely on bursts (other than combustive shot) way less reliable.
when you see an enemy do you expect them not to use some of their skills because “unfair”? i don’t and neither should my opponent unless we agreed to it beforehand.
scepter ele will kill us all!
all is vain!!