Guild Wars 2

dominik.9721:

I don’t main thief and never did. I’m just stating facts which you will notice and agree with once you reached a decent lvl. At this lvl you also will stop to ask about revenant buffs.
pathetic.

Um, sorry but I still disagree with your whole argument. And thief actually does see play in pro league, just look at any of their streams. It’s literally right there.

inb4 you say I’m not at a decent level: I’m a champion shadow, legendary thief, rank 80, who is on the GCL team that is hovering between around #1 and #2, and on another team in the same guild (same people, different name) that is hovering around #4 and #5. I’ve been on two formal PvP teams, this one is for fun.

I can frequently 1v1 and am actually an asset to teamfights because I run a build that supports teamfighting. I am also still the fastest player on the team. If you tell me you can’t teamfight, even by sacrificing mobility, I just have to laugh. Don’t call people pathetic and condescend when you obviously can’t figure it out yourself – Thief’s role is a roamer, and even then, you still can teamfight. (Changing your build around also increases teamfight ability) So I would suggest looking at yourself rather than the class.

Edit: you also said you don’t main thief. That explains a lot as to why you seem to be having trouble.

dragonkain.3984:

If you speak about tradeoffs, why revenant can have it all, and thief can’t then? HUH?

And as I remember when devs revealed Daredevil class, their intention with it was to give more sustain to thief in TEAMFIGHTS, yet all we see is thief dying to random aoe spam if he tries to.

Well, for starters, it doesn’t (any more), and second, if all you see is thief dying to random aoe spam, you’re witnessing pretty bad, not-so-smart thieves. Again, watch my video and look at the teamfights lol. Or just go into a PvP match with a decent diamond-legendary thief and watch them.

I suggest you watch the video I linked. It shows teamfights, 1v1’s, and 2v1 point holding.

I also don’t think you understand that there is tradeoff involved. You can’t have everything at once. And there actually literally are teamfight options for thief, yet you keep acting like there are none. (Impact strike?)

Thief isn’t made for teamfighting. However, it most definitely can be done. You’re not going to be the best at it. You can’t have everything. We thieves already have the highest mobility in the game, even without a shortbow, Buffing thief would put it over the top.

dragonkain.3984:

Guys… The point is not if it’s EVEN POSSIBLE to win 1v1 or teamfight with thief, the point is that there’s ALWAYS a better class to pick in your team over thief for any kind of job.

You want to win 1v1’s? Go scrapper.
You want to get easy 1v2 kills? Get rev
You want crazy teamfight presence? Get necro
And the list goes on.

The problem with thief is not that he’s non-existant in match, the problem is that there’s always more optimal class choice for your game plan, making choosing thief quite a mistake over other classes…
That’s why nobody wants to see thieves in their competitive lineups, and that is a problem in my opinion.

Your OP was about thief not being able to teamfight, but now you’re saying it’s everything else. Kinda contradicting yourself.

And no, there is not a class better than thief for mobility, decapping, +1ing, and bursting low targets. Thief can also 1v1, teamfight, and even hold points to extents. (All of this can even be found in one build)

The statement that there is always a better class for any kind of job a thief does is simply incorrect. There are classes that are better for some things, worse for others. That’s how classes work. They have strengths and weaknesses.

“Thief can’t 1v1”
“Thief can’t teamfight”

I guess I didn’t get the memo :/

https://youtu.be/23hZaIhdN-Q

nopoet.2960:

alchemyst.2165:

… but what if this was only available if the trap was avoided? Aka evade or invulned, etc.

Traps are already unblockable. They aren’t likely to be avoided. That situation would almost never come up.

Again, I’m talking about when they get evaded or invulned. Traps get evaded all the time, even by accident.

Apologies if someone already suggested this, but what if this was only available if the trap was avoided? Aka evade or invulned, etc.

It could also be tied to one of the trapper traits.

Yeah. So to the OP there isn’t really anything to be “fixed” because this is a game mechanic working as intended. But just make sure you have clear LoS to the target.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

By pressing CTRL+T locks and pings your target. You can then press TAB to switch to other targets, then you can simply press T to switch back to the locked target.

This doesn’t work for you?

He’s saying that when there is AI in front of your target, the AI blocks the way to the target and you port to the AI instead. Basically body tanking for them.

Bulwark Gyros and Horrors are just a problem in general (passive, easy damage reduction for whole team, lengthens fights), but I haven’t really thought about this.

I always just try to get a clear LoS to my target before using SS. But I wouldn’t mind something to help with this.

Lettuce.2945:

In before Josh X T links his unoriginal and subpar build and his twitch channel to his…highly probable full celestial build claiming to be the build you fought.

Back on topic. Furajir…you dueled one of my thief guildies named Havoc and Anarchy. We have a few thieves in the guild that’s also better than him. I recommend dueling them and you will change your win record versus thieves. Start with min scherzo.

It’s me.

Also I don’t recall dueling this guy I’m confused. I’m also confused on what this topic is really about because the title is about pvp builds and we’re talking about dueling.

And yes there are better thieves than me in our guild bc I don’t play as much guild wars bc I have real life friends that annoy me. But Min is Asian so hes better than me no matter what

No. Although I wouldn’t buff it any more. Just the things that aren’t viable, which is true for any class.

Reisinger.4203:

EDIT: I also just tried dueling 1v1 today, I definitely lost more duels than I won, but big problem I noticed was ppl running really strange thief builds… ones that are great for 1v1 but kind of gimmicky and not really seen in actual ranked play. should I keep dueling these guys?

I would say keep going. It teaches you how to adapt to many different builds quickly and dueling simply just helps with skill and experience.

That being said, dueling is NOT the only thing you should do. Do a mix of both. Dedicate some time to dueling, though, maybe 30 minutes at a time. Have sparring sessions with guildies or friends.

Currently sitting in high diamond on mostly solo to 3 queue using my D/P Staff build about 90% of the time.

You can run without shortbow. Make a build that you like and make it work.

That being said, you should know your build’s limits, pros and cons, so it is important to know that your role switches up a bit as to not hinder your team.

1. If you can fullcap a point you don’t have quickly, not necessarily. But it’s very nice for them to be able to, and they should be able to.

2. Usually I say it depends on what’s happening. I usually go for a fullcap unless they can win the teamfight with me there, or there are low targets that just need one extra burst to go down. If the team is losing the fight I usually fullcap.

3. To me it depends on where you’re closer to, but usually home. You don’t get respawns there in case we kill someone at mid.

4. If the team becomes outnumbered at mid just fullcap. Don’t want to risk it, as you can get easy points by fullcapping, then regroup later. It’s basically a cushion.

5. Keep poison up on the bunker (I’m assuming tempest). Focus the squishy targets first. Don’t focus the ele unless they’re below 50% HP. You can force an invuln, then swap to another target briefly, then go back if the ele hasn’t healed up again. Basically, focus the ele if they’re low. It’s a waste of time to try and focus them down. It’s better to down the squishy targets and then cleave and take out the rest of the team, at least in my experience.

I’ve also found it effective to, as a thief, keep control on the ele while the rest of the team focuses down another target. That way the ele is disabled and can’t support, so it’s easier to focus down targets. As for being in AoE, I kinda just yolo it since I run D/P staff. I vault evade through traps and aoe to my targets, or if I need to, get out with vault. With shortbow you can stay off point and AoE the point. Put down poisons and cluster bombs.

Hope that helped

Honestly, dueling. Duel some good thieves and it really helps a lot just with reactions and creating tactics. It translates into team play. Also just helps with experience.

Wolfric.9380:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

well, maybe give players a choice.

take
3 utilities 1 elite

or
4 utilities 0 elite (4th utility taking up the elite slot)

This. I would realy like this. Not another key number but more flexibility.

I would like this idea. Opens up options if needed, more build diversity.

Warrior got what they needed. Although, I wouldn’t mind if skull grinder’s condition stacks got reduced slightly, considering how much you can stack up quickly. I would say just subtract 1 stack of each condi, but even if it stayed the same I wouldn’t be too upset. It’s got a fair telegraph, fair range.

Imo, warrior doesn’t need nerfed. The only thing I would say needs nerfed on warrior is headbutt (no stunbreak, or much less damage), and maybe rousing resilience (4 seconds, or less toughness gain).

Grand Avatar of Destruction.2537:

I’m certainly thinking about getting a gaming mouse so I can bind 6 though 0 to it as well as dodge especially for the faster paced classes like thief (I suck I thief).

I’ve also seen this Rotate word come up many many times, what does that mean in the PvP context I’m not 100% familiar with the terminology.

Rotating is the movement of you and your team through capture points basically. You can have good rotations or bad ones. Basically it’s where you should be at any given time. If someone is capping home, you might want to rotate to home. If someone comes and +1’s it and you are now 2v1, you may need 1 or even two more people to come rotate to home to help you.

Mechanical and game knowledge, playing more than just your main to understand all classes, understanding roles in pvp, rotations, how to focus, reactions and twitch reactions(at least on thief). Practicing dueling also helps a lot.

Agreed. Shadow trap has a lot of potential to be competitive imo. It’s not bad atm, but it does have pathing issues and I think that this small buff would also be a good step for it.

Again, just because something is annoying doesn’t mean it’s broken. I’m assuming you guys are still talking about condi D/D. Let’s list off the cons of the build:

-Very gimmicky
-Has evade frame breaks (note that you can also time skills right before their normal dodge ends and still hit them at the end of the animation)
-Pretty squishy
-basically 1 condi as source of damage
-melee range
-Can’t do much else but spam 3

They’re like flies, people. Annoying but can be swatted down.

Still don’t see why so many of you guys are unwilling to learn the downsides of this build.

@Fluffball: Yes, it was so broken before. Must be why so many people ran it in pro league.

Oh wait…

Edit: I still don’t think you guys understand that I don’t run condi. I actually hate it, as yes it is annoying to fight. Still doesn’t make it OP, folks. It’s basically a free kill in PvP for me.

I love how people are just now calling broken now that thief is meta. Thief has literally the same amount of evades as it did when HoT came out, but nobody is crying until it’s meta.

Forestnator.6298:

Easy to blanace:

let evade not count for capping/ decapping like stealth, elixir S etc.

I’m sorry but that is one of the most terrible ideas I’ve ever heard.

Fluffball.8307:

alchemyst.2165:

It simply means that’s this class’s version of defense. It’s not flat armor or HP, blocks, heals, or blinds. It’s evasion and mobility. That’s it.

Skillful use of it. Not just spamming 2 buttons to defeat most players. That’s the comparison to turret engi. My mother-in-law could beat most players on an evade thief and she has never heard of GW2, same with the old turret engi.

Another high sustain class, let’s say the bunker tempest? I’m sure you can see skillwise it’s not comparable at all.

You’re right, it’s not comparable. Bunker Tempest has much more sustain and is much easier (And yes I play a bunker tempest when needed in my team comp)

Calling thief “high sustain” also doesn’t make sense. You keep comparing a squishy class with literal bunker builds. Kind of decreasing your credibility for me. I want to see all of your experience with thief, considering how easy you say it is.

Also, don’t know how many times I’ve had to say this, but if you die to a thief who does nothing but waste evades, the problem is you, not the build.

Fluffball.8307:

The people defending this playstyle are the same people who said turret engi wasn’t a problem. We all know how to counter a perma evade thief, the problem is that it takes literally zero effort to play and take some GW2 knowledge to counter. Your average player is not going to be able to hit this thief who picked up the game yesterday.

I am a guild wars 2 thief who runs daredevil and I say turret engi was a problem.

Now, back to the relevant topic.

So basically what you’re saying is without knowledge of the game you can’t kill a thief. But…isn’t this true for everything, and how it should be? I mean your argument is that a casual player won’t be able to kill a noob thief (not true).

Maybe it comes from a lack of knowledge and play experience. I find killing other thieves pretty easy on other classes, maybe that’s due to the fact that I main a thief and know when to strike. That’s where I think the problem is. Everybody who cries out that thief is op refuses to learn when to go on the offensive and fight a thief. To be honest, a lot of the reason for this is that their defense is simply something that allows them to not be hit.

Video games are designed to give us satisfaction in the form of big red numbers. We know something is going our way when we see them. When you can’t always hit something, it makes our brain think something is wrong due to the way games are designed.

Yet you can still hit them, even though it may be less times than another class. But that’s the thing, thieves are squishy, so the net time it takes to kill it is about the same as another class.

But people don’t seem to be mad when their damage is out-sustained by simple armor value.

The point of this whole rant is to say that just because you aren’t hitting something 100% of the time does not mean that it is overpowered. It simply means that’s this class’s version of defense. It’s not flat armor or HP, blocks, heals, or blinds. It’s evasion and mobility. That’s it.

Forestnator.6298:

alchemyst.2165:

It’s a matter of timing and watching your opponent. If you’re not observant you’re going to get wrecked. Again, it’s a matter of skill.

Usually evading should be a matter of timing and watching you opponent. That’s what is called skill. Perma evading without thinking about when to evade and then calling it an issue of l2p… seriously that is kittened.

Again, if a thief is perma evading it’s pretty easy to watch them waste their evades.

You said it yourself, they evade without thinking.

So…why blow your skills into it if you know they’ll be perma evading?

In the case of a deathblossom thief, wait and kite away while they spam their dodge. Once they go into death blossom spam, you can pretty easily pick them apart after their death blossom. Most death blossom thieves are really bad; it’s easy to kill them if you don’t go in like an idiot expecting to hit them without thinking. By that logic, you’re just as bad as the thief.

I’m tempted to make a video showcasing how easy this is.

I agree with what people are saying about adding in Skyhammer and Spirit Watch. They’re more fun to play, so probably more fun to watch.

I also think adding in build diversity would do a ton. It gets tiresome watching the same builds used over and over again on stream. There’s nothing interesting about it.

Being able to see new builds and comps (they’re doing better with making everything viable class-wise) every week would be really cool.

Hmm… It’s an interesting idea but I don’t think hard separation is the right way to go to fix matchmaking.

Someone was talking about this on another thread and I really like their idea: Make personal score influence your progression. Whether it be MMR or pips directly, factoring in personal score would do a lot to help soft separate lower tier players from higher tier players.

Then again, there’s the problem of getting matches where there’s simply not much to do, making your score lower even if you win. So it shouldn’t be the defining factor, just something to help out.

Ex: A person (or two, let’s say theres a duo queue) loses a match, but they have the highest score in the game (let’s say 200, and the rest of the team has somewhere around 100). That player still gets some sort of MMR boost to help sort them with players that are more around their skill level.

Personal score might also need some tweaking in this system though.

If people are letting thieves 2v8 them and win, they have problems only the lord can solve.

Every heard of…I don’t know… timing your skills so you can hit them? You do realize most of their evades have vulnerability frames?

And if it’s stealth you’re worrying about, don’t worry, lots of classes have a 1-button easy solution to that.

To be honest, I don’t know. I would say Condi Warrior, but that’s kind of a low blow and not really accurate depending on the comp matchup.

I guess I would still say revenant, considering they still are very very versatile, but all at once. They have the damage, sustain, and support in one build. I think nerfing their mobility was a step in the right direction considering these things.

But to answer the OP’s question I guess I would say rev. (Note that that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s broken, just the strongest of the meta classes)

When fighting a scrapper:

protection, protection, immune, immune, immune, invulnerable, invulnerable, immune, 5k damage while blocking, protection, interrupted, immune, cc, cc, cc, protection, immune, evade, evade, cc, immune, protection, interrupted, immune, immune.

Oh, and stealth, stealth, stealth, lightning field, reveal, reflect, reflect.

I think it’s funny how everybody complains about ID when literally all they have to do is realize that a (stupid) thief will headshot you a couple of times after the initial headshot. It’s hilarious when I get headshotted and then just sit there letting the headshot spam hit me doing nothing.

@madvisions I watched your rev vs thief impact video, and that rev definitely could have performed countermeasures against your headshots, like cancelling shield 5 as soon as they saw you basi, or timing facet of light on your interrupts.

It’s literally a simple matter of using your head. Don’t keep spamming skills when you get headshotted, lol. I kill most thieves that run ID, whether it be the dumb ones who headshot spam or the ones who use it sparingly. They can win by outplaying me- not spamming. It’s also a tradeoff of survivability vs burst.

All this being said, I wouldn’t mind a 2 second cooldown on it considering all the crying that’s being done by people.

Wow I need to take editing tips from you lmao

Good edit!

Dahkeus.8243:

Hmm, not sure I could ever in good faith recommend a staff with D/P build for serious ranked play, but I could see this as being something fun for unranked or duels since it’s dropping most of your mobility and disengage for extra burst.

D/P Staff is actually pretty good for ranked; at least if your playstyle fits it. You gain a lot of 1v1 and teamfight ability in loss for a bit of mobility, however even with Y axis mobility loss (there are workarounds, and you can get to places with a staff that you normally couldn’t get to because of pathing) you are still the fastest player on a team. It’s a tradeoff really, lose some mobility to gain actual 1v1 effectiveness and teamfight skills. It’s been my most successful build in ranked, but of course it’s not for everyone. I’m actually planning on making a little guide of my own to show its pros and cons.

Thief is definitely pretty strong atm. It takes some learning, but a master thief is a really great asset to a team. I say stick with it.

Eval.2371:

Nice video. Thought I would bump as I think I ran into you earlier today in tc bl. Was pretty bad duel on my part you kinda gave me the ole what are you doing /shrug after killing me.

I don’t think I was on TC BL today. I was in pvp and EB for a bit tho.

I was tempted to bump it myself because I’m an egotistical piece of kitten who needs confirmation from internet strangers, but thanks

Second Daredevil montage here. Wanted to try and get better fights this time that showed player skill/fun fights rather than just a hodge podge of random fights.

There are a lot of options. I prefer running mara/sold/zerk, something like that with daredevil runes. Go for around 2.4k armor, 17kish hp. You won’t need much crit chance but go for around 40%. If you want to be more of a bruiser type, run DA/DD/TR. Weakness uptime will be your friend. If you want to be slippery, run Acro instead of DA. You could also try something with defender runes and bandit’s defense. But you just wanna aim for those stats and go from there. Mix and match how you want.

Inoki.6048:

@OP: stop crying. Thieves are overpowered as they are. A good thief can counter any situation and kill in almost one hit. Not to mention they are constantly invisible and teleport better than mages.

If you want more vitality then I want their blink/shadow step completely removed and stealth greatly nerfed.

The low vitality and relatively fragile nature are signs that you need to learn manoeuvrability to be very fluid on the battlefield. If you want something more resilient go with a Warrior or a Guardian like most people here. Those classes, especially the guard, are far too strong.

Complaining like you do only signals one thing – you don’t know how to play the thief.

Thieves, OP? LOL. “a good thief can counter any situation” well, yeah, at the highest skill cap, playing perfectly, that’s kind of what thieves are supposed to be able to do.

One shot kill? That’s funny. A thief can only one shot burst on a full glass build. We haven’t been able to easily one shot since near release.

A thief that is better than you will usually kill you- that’s how its supposed to work and it hasn’t worked that way until recently. Now that thieves aren’t a free kill, people complain because they don’t want to use their usually unused brain power to take a second and think about when they shouldn’t and shouldn’t hit, then complain about dodge or invisibility.

While now I don’t care as much about an HP buff, this is just plain silly. Also, your terminology of this game (mages? this isn’t WoW) discredits you as well, imo.

To the OP: its not as much of a problem any more because we are in a better spot now, but if you’re in WvW, build for more hp, such as mara and soldier. I have about 17k hp on my thief, up to 18k with buffs.

Kicker.8203:

Pulmonary is too good not to interrupt every autoattack with headshot. Used to be better when u had to time your headshot to key moments.
Has to be nerfed in some way. I’d accept any of these: much lower dmg / internal CD /rework.

I don’t really have a problem with Pulm as of now, but I wouldn’t mind an ICD. The trait is meant to be very effective at killing glassy classes, which it is, but it isn’t really useful in anything outside of 1v1s. Not very good in actual PvP. Plus, you sacrifice survivability for it, and it can easily be countered by stab. While it is annoying to fight sometimes, it can easily be worked around. So I really don’t think it needs changed tbh.

You’re right. They’re slow. But they do overshoot their range, so sometimes you can hit someone from pretty far away and have them not expect it to hit them, and they get the full blast. But usually my solution is to use steal while casting.

It depends on what’s going on in the game. If there is a teamfight at mid and I see far open, I go get it quickly, then decap, and if they still need me at mid I immediately go back, or to home if home needs help.

If the other team is mostly at home and there is a small fight at mid, I take advantage of the fact that most of the team is away from their home and I fullcap. Also, if there are respawns coming I usually just decap and leave.

TL;DR: If you aren’t needed elsewhere I would fullcap it as long as you have time. If you’re a good 1v1er you can fullcap and if someone’s coming just keep capping and stay there. Otherwise, if you’re not a 1v1-oriented thief I would probably just decap and leave. So it’s a variety of factors. You’ll get used to the situations where you should and shouldn’t.

1. Regarding your build, I wouldn’t bother with infiltrator’s signet in this age. Go with Signet of Agility, Impairing Daggers, or Roll for Initiative, or something else decent that complements your playstyle. Also, Run Escapist’s absolution in PvP. You’re just not going to stay alive if you don’t have condi removal. Executioner is decent, but also be aware that improvisation is a great choice too and can save your kitten . But you said you wanted a high damage build so it makes sense. I would also consider putting on impact strike, because it can really sway the tide of a game.

2. If you’re okay with losing Y-axis mobility and some kiting to gain damage, stealth, and chase/single target pressure, run D/P and put on bound. The playstyle is different because you’re more of a bruiser type, so if you’re a good 1v1er this build really shines for thieves.

3. Again, going with D/P would help with the lack of stealth, although not necessary and depends on what your playstyle is. As for using the staff skills efficiently, it depends on the situation. In a 1v1, using 3 and 4 is important, and vaulting for damage(and hopefully an evade) when necessary. In a fight involving 3 or more people, especially teamfights, #2 and 5 become your best friends. #2 gives you damage and weakens everyone around you, and vault will give you some HP and clear a condi (hopefully, if you evade) while dealing big damage in a teamfight.

If there wasn’t precision strike for revs the matchup would be even.

To answer OP’s question, it’s more fun imo.

rennlc.7346:

I’m afraid it isn’t that simple when using bound against dash thieves of a higher skill level. Dash limits the ability to sustain stealth, yes, but what dash can allow is for a thief to use blinding powder for one medium or longer duration stack of stealth and use the mobility of dash to more aggressively pursue the other thief’s smoke field. If they do this and fail to backstab or make me reveal myself from hitting them with HS or bound, it’s as you say and I will likely win the fight from getting an opener from stealth on them.

snip

A thief of a higher skill level should win…that’s how its supposed to be.

Anyways, it seems that you need to boost your defenses. Outstealth and dodge at the right times, ez as pie to get the advantage. After your opponent blows backstab+steal combo, that’s your chance.

The fact that you’re revealing yourself by hitting the other player with your skills while trying to stealth tells me more about your situation. I don’t mean this offensively, but I would just say you need more practice fighting thieves.

Loving S/D. More utility and actually a good amount more of damage due to lead attacks. over 5.2k larc strikes on sentries which I never got before (and that wasn’t even full stacks)

I don’t usually like making comparisons to other games but this one is pretty good.

For any of you who have played blade and soul, the assassin class is one of the harder classes, and it’s very very rewarding if you outplay the other opponent at every opportunity. It’s called OP by those who don’t know their skills and how to counter them. They can 100-0 if they predict and react to what the opponent is doing.

Basically, the thief needs to be heavily rewarded for outplaying the opponent. Right now there isn’t much risk/reward factor.