Guild Wars 2

Have to agree with doug here, the build was pretty broken. Condi in general needs a nerf, but anet decides to buff it. Don’t whine because you can’t faceroll people 3v1 with bleeds, torment and confusion anymore.

evilapprentice.6379:

alchemyst.2165:

evilapprentice.6379:

NinjaEd.3946:

evilapprentice.6379:

NinjaEd.3946:

Normally I’d agree to fix a bug no matter how enjoyable it may be, but considering the damage this patch did to our defensive trait lines, just let us have it.

Nope.

“But my class is so weak without it” is never an acceptable excuse for a Bug/exploit. If the incorrect timer reduction is accurate, it should be fixed.

Never said my class cannot live without it, the fact that we took such a hard hit to SA and acro they should fix the skill to make that value make sense rather than nerf this “exploit”. It doesn’t make or break thief, but don’t make it sound like cancer.

It doesn’t matter what exact words you used. It doesn’t matter the scale of the bug. No matter what the current conditions you think your class is in, it does not and never will justify ignoring a bug.

If you have complaints about the quality of the thief changes, bring them up – don’t claim a bug is fine because you feel the class doesn’t have enough defenses. Not that this bug should be particularly high in Anets list (it’s not like Grenade Barrage), but it should most certainly be fixed.

While we’re talking about bug fixes, let’s also ask where the heck that 10% additional base to withdraw is. I’d like to see Anet at least acknowledge that it’s in the pipeline to fix.

Chill fam, you’re making it sound like this is a horrible exploit that breaks the game. It’s not like that CD reduction is making thief broken. Besides, maybe it isn’t even a bug, they probably would have fixed it by now. Maybe it’s just a typo.

I’ll quote and bold the pertinent part for you below.

evilapprentice.6379:

If you have complaints about the quality of the thief changes, bring them up – don’t claim a bug is fine because you feel the class doesn’t have enough defenses. Not that this bug should be particularly high in Anets list (it’s not like Grenade Barrage), but it should most certainly be fixed.

Additionally, they haven’t fixed Grenade Barrage or the base healing of withdraw yet, have they? Maybe those are intended. It would be strange though, at least in the case of withdraw, where the notes say it should have had a 10% base healing buff.

The sentiment “my class isn’t so good right now, can’t we just ignore the bugs?” isn’t a good one.

That’s actually not what I’m trying to say. Maybe I should just put it like this: Who cares? It’s not that big a deal. I mean I guess I wouldn’t care either way, whether they kept it at a 32 second CD or a 48 second, but I’m just saying don’t flip out over people “exploiting” something that isn’t even confirmed as a bug for one thing (I mean it most likely is, but there could be other explanations is what I’m saying). People are going to use it whether its a bug/“exploit” or not.

Also, if it’s a bug, you could still argue that the proper cooldown should be brought to what it is now, so it wouldn’t necessarily be “ignoring” the bug but rather changing it, because yes, the fact that thief isn’t in a good spot right now actually does give us reason to have some sort of buff. Then again, it would be buffing our damage even more (well I guess it wouldn’t be a difference because of what it is now) when we need balance in other areas, but I’m going off topic.

evilapprentice.6379:

NinjaEd.3946:

evilapprentice.6379:

NinjaEd.3946:

Normally I’d agree to fix a bug no matter how enjoyable it may be, but considering the damage this patch did to our defensive trait lines, just let us have it.

Nope.

“But my class is so weak without it” is never an acceptable excuse for a Bug/exploit. If the incorrect timer reduction is accurate, it should be fixed.

Never said my class cannot live without it, the fact that we took such a hard hit to SA and acro they should fix the skill to make that value make sense rather than nerf this “exploit”. It doesn’t make or break thief, but don’t make it sound like cancer.

It doesn’t matter what exact words you used. It doesn’t matter the scale of the bug. No matter what the current conditions you think your class is in, it does not and never will justify ignoring a bug.

If you have complaints about the quality of the thief changes, bring them up – don’t claim a bug is fine because you feel the class doesn’t have enough defenses. Not that this bug should be particularly high in Anets list (it’s not like Grenade Barrage), but it should most certainly be fixed.

While we’re talking about bug fixes, let’s also ask where the heck that 10% additional base to withdraw is. I’d like to see Anet at least acknowledge that it’s in the pipeline to fix.

Chill fam, you’re making it sound like this is a horrible exploit that breaks the game. It’s not like that CD reduction is making thief broken. Besides, maybe it isn’t even a bug, they probably would have fixed it by now. Maybe it’s just a typo.

Here’s my 5th Roaming montage on Thief. In this video I was running basically 2/0/2/4/6 D/D thief at the time, same gear as in my other video: Zerk/Cav/Valk mix with pack runes, running either oils or sharpening stones with asparagus sage salad.

Not sure if I’m going to be running the same thing after patch considering acro got nerfed hard. Hell, I don’t even know if I’ll be even playing thief. All of the survivability got sucked out of it. Maybe I’ll do an ele montage next.

Music: Imagine Dragons-Battle Cry (WildChild Remix)
Purity Ring-Sea Castle
Nero-Doomsday

Jesiah.2457:

Meanwhile – condi thieves, hahaha. Not only is S/D suffering but … lololol. With how high damage is and nerfs to things like shortbow (one of our previous condi options) our condi damage has become pretty much a joke. I mean we have cleaner access to leeching venoms and what made it decent, but overall … it just feels inferior to burst thief damage / damage in general.

Well that’s kind of the point of condi, gradually taking people down to 0 with attrition, not burst. If anything this is actually a sign of more balance (even though other condi classes can burst people in seconds, which should not be a thing).

Jesiah.2457:

Finally, Carl “with a K” doesn’t care enough about thieves and their traits to get them right, why should we get his name right? (Potent Poisons? Joke-tier. Dagger Training? More joke tier garbage filler “options” if you want to kitten yourself. Same with what Guarded Initiation turned into.)

I do agree that these traits are trying to push thief into something that won’t be viable. Hybrid D/D thief just won’t work. Turn the poison traits in DA into different inhibiting conditions, or give raw damage boost when affected by poison, etc. Also, they still haven’t made Death Blossom power, but let’s not get into that. The point is that ANet doesn’t know what they’re doing with thief, and it seems like they just don’t care.

My suggestion for Acro: As some people said before, make feline grace restore 15 endurance on a successful evade. Increase endless stamina to a total of 100%. Maybe even give us a better condi removal option.

Anet, please listen and make the right decisions with thief.

Amonatory.2453:

This post pretty much sums it all up. But I don’t expect them to even change the slightest thing.

They might if we cry enough. That’s how we got here in the first place.

Lately I’ve been getting random reveal in SR. I’m not fighting an engi when it happens, and I’m not attacking, I double check my combat log. It happens like a second after SR ends. Makes it even harder to kill people, after anet made it literally impossible to kill anyone with half a brain in a 1v1 after this patch.

Anet kittens up thief every single patch. Now thief has regressed to “one shot unsuspecting noobs and be capable of literally nothing else.” I rarely ever win a fair duel against any class other than other thieves, and those are all S/D acro thieves. I’m probably just gonna main ele or stop playing altogether until anet actually makes a not brain-dead decision with thieves.

/rant over

With this patch, thief is basically an extreme version of “kill or be killed.” Especially with acro. Combined with the buffed damage output across all classes, thief doesn’t have much reliable defense any more.

Fixed I think. Thank the flying spaghetti monster

Of course anet has to kitten up thieves every single patch.

This bug has gotten me killed COUNTLESS times already today to the point where I refuse to play until it’s fixed. It’s completely frustrating. Seems thieves can never catch a break.

I was attacking golems in HotM and saw that I gt stab on backstab. I’m guessing they made Assassin’s equilibrium baseline?

honestly tho can I have this as new weapon

I want tripwire on heal pls

Im pretty sure they said boon stealing is random now, but I could be wrong.

Gallant Pigeon.5807:

A slight tangent, but I thought I would also mention acro is getting a huge dps nerf.

Assuming you have a power of 2400, getting 5 might and the 10% damage buff equates to (2400+30*5)*1.1 = 2805. That equates to a loss of 405 power under the new acro system. What has always made acro desirable for me was that it was a defensive trait line, but it allowed you to dish out more damage than a shadow arts build.

^ this.

Although, you will be able to spec into 3 lines now, which gives you the chance to spec into a damage-oriented line such as DA or CS, which may make up for the might loss.

Acro :<

Anet will pay for this

gin.7158:

Condi removal seems a pretty common problem for thieves. The only reliable source of condi removal is heal skill in my opinion (if you know what condi you will get).

But in the specialization trait change, thieves will get “trickster”.
“20% cooldown reduction on trick, trick will remove 1 condition” and withdraw and dagger storm will be tricks. So I guess if you take withdraw with trickster trait, you will get 12s condi removal (+ also cure movement impairment condi). I think it will help a lot, at least in PvE context

The problem with trickster is that you have to give up bountiful theft for it. You lose a lot of good utility with that. It’s part of the reason trickery is so good.
You lose out on a lot just for condi removal.

Sorel.4870:

alchemyst.2165:

I feel like they should make sleight of hand semi-baseline. Something like this:

Baseline: Steal steals a boon from a foe.

Traited: Steal an extra boon and grant vigor to allies.

It would also be cool if steal had condi transfer, but that might be a bit too strong, and increase over-reliance on steal.

That’s Bountiful Theft. And why should it? Traits are a way to specialize in some aspects of your profession, so it seems normal that you have to take traits to get a better steal.

Woops, my bad. But yeah, that’s true. Just an idea.

I feel like they should make bountiful theft semi-baseline. Something like this:

Baseline: Steal steals a boon from a foe.

Traited: Steal an extra boon and grant vigor to allies.

It would also be cool if steal had condi transfer, but that might be a bit too strong, and increase over-reliance on steal.

Engis and medi guards.

Kury.8210:

Cynz.9437:

use s/p for lving~

Mind telling me why? If it’s to get used to the skills I understand. For surviving and killing fast though, d/p seems a bit better.

Because it has good cleave dmg. Also pistol whip evades. You can run signet of malice if you want, then go into a big group and kill them while regaining health and evading.

Make sure you get your reaction time and timing down, as those are some of the most important things you will need as a thief. Also, be spatially aware. A lot of people underestimate this as a thief. A spatially aware thief can CnD+ steal at an opponent behind them, shadowstep away to escape a bad situation, or cluster bomb from afar then steal in and hit them with a backstab as the cluster bomb hits them. All of these things make a very good thief.

The trap will most likely be burst/lockdown based. That will be the thing you have to avoid. So in a fight with a trap DH, save your utilities for when you’re getting locked into a trap and longbow burst. At least, that’s what I’m thinking. My guess is that they’ll attempt to immob or stun you into a trap then burst, so this makes the most sense imo.

chews popcorn intently watching this thread

I like to do this in PvP for fun, literally just drop my caltrops, needle trap, and watch them all die slowly on point to how op my conditions are.

And I don’t even have perplex/dire in PvP. Lol. It’s insanely easy.

Instead of giving regen at 75%, why not give resistance instead? It would really help acro users against conditions much more, rather than regen.

I’ve played D/D without Cloaked in Shadow for months

Then again, I have evades…

My opinion about the whole thing:

I have mixed feelings about these changes. Shadow Arts is going to be a go-to most likely, which I don’t like. I also don’t like how they nerfed critical strikes. Deadly Arts is basically the new Critical Strikes.

And as an Acro player, I feel offended that we got traits like Guarded Initiation. We should have a “remove a condition on successful evade” trait. And they should just change Feline Grace to “Gain back endurance on a successful evade” if that’s the way they want to go with it, because dodging is our only defense and they’re nerfing it.

That being said, the fact that we can get 3 trait lines may make up for that. I plan on running 60066 D/D, and with the burst I get plus the new trickster (Definitely going to try that, but I will miss bountiful theft) it might make up for the lack of defense in the Acro line.

Honestly we just have to wait and see how things will turn out.

Edit: also what would be amazing is if they changed the death blossom evade frame to 1/2 at least, then make the sword evade/steal recharge trait global. That might make it a lot better.

It should be any condition removed, that way it is on the same level kitten. I’m guessing if they do this for thieves it will be Fleet of Foot changed, as stated before me. But even if we DO get this trait, where will it be? Adept or Master? I highly doubt it would be a GM trait.

I would absolutely love to have a trait that removes a condition every time you successfully evade an attack, maybe on a 1.5 sec ICD? That would sound amazing. It would be a huge step forward for the thief class, decreasing reliance on stealth.

The V.8759:

alchemyst.2165:

Against players who know what they’re doing it’s already hard enough to land a good backstab; why make it harder?

This would also make medi guards counter thieves even more.

Indeed now you mention medi guards it sounds indeed like a huge nerf for thief Vs guard.
Landing a backstab is not that hard at all since it doesnt have to be in the back, but can also be done in the sides.
I think it is just really weird that when you receive a hit, which is blocked, you still do not know where it came from.

Well that’s kind of the point of stealth, to not know where they’re coming from.

And you can assume that if you block an attack from stealth they are flanking you.

And yes, it actually can be very hard to land a proper backstab due to players who know how to dodge, block, blind, predict movements, have protection, or have lots of aoe.

Against players who know what they’re doing it’s already hard enough to land a good backstab; why make it harder?

This would also make medi guards counter thieves even more.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

alchemyst.2165:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

alchemyst.2165:

Using cluster bomb on a smoke field (out of stealth) and it hits a target, causing revealed.

I don’t understand why other classes can blast finish a smoke field for stealth and deal damage, and yet thieves can’t do it without being revealed. Please fix/change?

That’s because the blast happens (which stealth you) before the cluster hits (which revealed you). No difference than going in stealth while your SB Autoattack is still bouncing.

I get WHY it happens, I’m just saying that I don’t get why they haven’t changed it. I just don’t think it makes sense. Shouldn’t all classes be able to? I’m not sure which other classes specifically can’t do it with certain combos, I think someone mentioned earlier that it does not work with Big Ol’ Bomb, which also doesn’t make sense. The blast should come after damage, like Earthshaker, Arcing Arrow, Frozen Burst, etc.

You can’t have the blast come after damage because you need the blast to deal damage. If the blast didn’t happen, then no damage.

IMO, the cluster bomb is working as intended and the Earthshaker and other skills are not.

Well, either way I think there needs to be a change. I’m fine with it either way as long as this mechanic is balanced across all classes/skills.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

alchemyst.2165:

Using cluster bomb on a smoke field (out of stealth) and it hits a target, causing revealed.

I don’t understand why other classes can blast finish a smoke field for stealth and deal damage, and yet thieves can’t do it without being revealed. Please fix/change?

That’s because the blast happens (which stealth you) before the cluster hits (which revealed you). No difference than going in stealth while your SB Autoattack is still bouncing.

I get WHY it happens, I’m just saying that I don’t get why they haven’t changed it. I just don’t think it makes sense. Shouldn’t all classes be able to? I’m not sure which other classes specifically can’t do it with certain combos, I think someone mentioned earlier that it does not work with Big Ol’ Bomb, which also doesn’t make sense. The blast should come after damage, like Earthshaker, Arcing Arrow, Frozen Burst, etc.

No, none of that. I’m referring to a PvP situation. For example, if I lay down black powder, a warrior can use Earthshaker and get stealth while still hitting everyone in the vicinity. Eles can do this using frozen burst.

Thieves cannot do this with cluster bomb when other classes can. I’m not whining, I’m just stating that this seems silly to me.

Edit: Yes, I understand that I can move away from a target and blast without hitting them, but it still doesn’t make sense that other classes don’t have to do this.

I like to run different builds based on how squishy the other comp is.

CS D/P for against squishy comps.

PS D/P against semi-squishy comps.

S/D against more tanky comps.

Using cluster bomb on a smoke field (out of stealth) and it hits a target, causing revealed.

I don’t understand why other classes can blast finish a smoke field for stealth and deal damage, and yet thieves can’t do it without being revealed. Please fix/change?

If you play trickery, be very aggressive with boon steals and with attacks, but also watch out for their hard hitting abilities and pull/ring.

If you don’t play trickery, dance around them and make sure you don’t get blinded. You have to be extra precise. Hit them when they are vulnerable and keep hitting until they go on the offensive again.

Best ones in my opinion are Thief, Mesmer, and Ele. Two good thieves can be unstoppable especially if their builds complement each other, for example if one runs trickery for some support and the other runs pistol offhand with shortbow blasts.

Thief and Mesmer can basically burst down any target if they are well coordinated.

Thief and Ele are good because the thief can kill while the ele supports with healing, protection, fire fields, damage, etc.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

I watched the video but i wont comment on it as there has already been a few post’s about it.

I am confused when people still say SA carry’s people because doesn’t full acro do the same dam thing lol? in fact i find that i survive longer with acro because of the never ending dodging and with that signet of agility you shouldn’t run out of dodges. and lets not forget whats a better trade of, 300 armour with stealth traits or 3k health passive condi removal and a hell of vigor income?

I also watched your video too, @oEnvy. And I think its easier to survive in full acro then it is full sa because you are free to dodge when ever you want, even random dodges to get the 10% dmg but you are not free to land CnD all of the time, people miss them, a random agi pops up, or a blind or even a legit dodge.

I am not defending the SA tree nor am i saying its good, i am just saying full acro is just as, if not more “cheese” (what ever that means) as going full SA.

I would have to disagree. In my opinion, SA allows for more passive play, with passive condi removal and healing. It’s much easier to play than Acro, which has less condi removal and more offensive play. Acro is harder to play due to you actually having to do something to get results, but if played correctly can be more rewarding. However, this balances out, so I don’t think Acro is cheese. Neither is SA (unless it’s d/p or p/d condi imo) but SA is easier to play.

Technically “thieves” won’t be getting rifle. The new specialization will be getting them.

And rifle will probably be a sniper weapon, suiting the Assassin or Operative playstyle. Maybe even a bandit playstyle.

In all honesty I didn’t like seeing you running p/d condi with D/P combined with SA as an offhand, but to each their own I suppose. I would work on dodging and timing, although I understand you were lagging in the video. Was entertaining to watch, though.

Am I the only one who simply does not give a flying kitten if someone runs SA or not? (As a non Full SA user)

Seriously, if people spent as much time learning to fight SA thieves as they did crying about it, this forum post would probably not be existent. Quite honestly I don’t really have a huge problem with SA thieves, unless they are D/P, (or p/d condi, but that’s a different story all together) then I just sit patiently, or simply walk away, as the fight will not end in any way.

Also, people don’t seem to realize that there is a fair tradeoff of damage and survivability when traiting for 6 in SA. And I think one of the big reasons people cry about it is because they just want a way to get their bags easier. They don’t want to think about what they’re doing, just faceroll their keyboard and press F then be on their merry way…

Whisperblade <3

I feel that rifle is either gonna be like P/P with negative defense, or it’s going to be another boring sit in stealth and snipe playstyle. I feel there really isn’t much playstyle diversity for rifle.

However, I will try it, and even if I don’t like it I may play the new Specialization but without rifle.

I got in but I doubt the new specializations will be ready, it will probably be what we’ve seen already.

Why don’t we just make it give 25 stacks of stability for 1 second

For fun, let’s see how many of you can guess if I’m joking or not.

Assassin’s Equilibrium —-→ Assassin’s Invigoration: Vigor on Attack out of Stealth?

Assassin’s Equilibrium —-→ Assassin’s Protection: Protection on Attack out of Stealth?

or even better

Assassin’s Equilibrium —-→ Assassin’s Cleansing: Clear a condition or two when Attacking out of stealth (icd?)

My point is this trait is pretty much useless, I’ve tried experimenting with it and found practically negative use for it. Best thing for anet to do is just replace the stability with a more useful boon.

P/P can actually be pretty kitten good if played with the right build and playstyle. I’ve even ran it in unranked queues with my guildies at times. For P/P I’ve found the most success running panic strike, something like 6/2/0/0/6 with ricochet and hastened replenishment in the trickery line, using withdraw, Shadowstep, Shadow Refuge, and Smoke Screen or roll for initiative. (I prefer smoke screen) You’re very good at teamfights, as you can deal a great amount of ranged damage (and blinds if you run smoke screen) from a distance, allowing you to escape or push as needed. And it’s a lot of fun!

Definitely not useless in PvP. Thieves can be very effective in PvP if played correctly. Mobility allows you to move quickly across the map, so you can +1, decap, or cut people off who are going to another point. Shortbow cluster bombs and poison fields help keep people downed. High damage, boonsteal, overall a good option for a team comp.