Guild Wars 2

Maybe we could turn death blossom into a vulnerability, cripple, or just make it a power-based aoe evade skill. It’d be pretty cool if I could run into a group of people and press 3 to evade and deal 3-4k damage all around me.

DeceiverX.8361:

I recently started feeling kind of the same as OP, though, but I think it has to do largely with playing so much thief. That said, we really do need some more weapon types/configurations, as gameplay/sets are getting stale for everyone.

I really think thief needs rifle and dual swords.

You could always try power p/d….

But basically what you’re saying is you hate every build for thief so I’d suggest rerolling.

Isn’t this the same video that you’ve posted like 3 times? The date is august 7.

It’s definitely worth trying out by the devs, although it seems a bit complicated right now (maybe its just the fact that I just woke up and am having trouble thinking) it’s a cool and creative idea.

Another possibility is to gain protection and/or regen upon dodging successfully.

Axyl.9408:

Right, but that’s why you wouldn’t be healed for the full amount. That’d just be ridiculous! Even if you dodge a 15K eviscerate, you’d be healed for 4,500 health. That’s a lot, but it’s certainly not a full heal, or even a 50% heal in full berserkers.

The 30% May be toned down, due to the amount of dodges available. Perhaps 20 or 25%…

The number that I gave IS the 30%. Ive seen eviscerate hit so hard before but I guess that’s besides the point.

I like this idea. I agree it would need an ICD or something to keep it balanced.

I’ve actually thought about something like this before, and it seems like a good idea but it might not be possible with the game’s coding. I mean if it is, I’d love to be healed for 138248102498214 hp after dodging an eviscerate.

I actually think it should be brought down to 5 as compensation for the nerf.

It’s not the regen boon, it’s just a passive tick of healing on yourself while in stealth. You’re thinking of Shadow Protector.

If you’re running backstab you need 6 in critical strikes. Always.

1/10 20 second cooldown is pretty bullkitten

glock.6590:

Amonatory.2453:

Neither counter each other. It’s literally 50/50 if equal skill, and no SA. But if it’s SA, D/P has the advantage. Its completely up to timing the abilities, if the d/p is using HiS s/d can win if they daze it. Either way the weapon sets do not counter each other, it all depends on the player using it.

How is that? You mean an actual 1v1 or a tpvp match where the D/P can just gank from stealth. I think the S/D has to outplay the D/P that can just one shot from stealth.

Well, the OP was talking about WvW so he’s most likely going to SEE the thief before they engage, making it a fair 1v1 basically. S/D can just dodge the burst if they know its coming, but D/P has blinds, daze, heartseeker, and backstab. So it kind of balances out.

I’d have to say Mesmer, Engi, or Thief.

Mesmer for me seems all about timing and precision. I believe it requires good situational awareness of your illusions and deciding what skills to use at the time.

Engi, for me, was easy to learn but has a high skill cap. You have to keep track of lots of abilities and adapt to the situations that are given to you. You basically have a lot to manage and do.

Thief has a pretty high skill floor and cap, imo (besides condi p/d, lol) There’s lots of ways that you can utilize your different abilities like shadowstep, stealth, and steal. You have to always be thinking about your timing, health, cooldowns and initiative, which can be a lot to manage.

Amonatory.2453:

Neither counter each other. It’s literally 50/50 if equal skill, and no SA. But if it’s SA, D/P has the advantage. Its completely up to timing the abilities, if the d/p is using HiS s/d can win if they daze it. Either way the weapon sets do not counter each other, it all depends on the player using it.

^ Pretty much this.

Basically you just have to outplay them and be smart, try not to blow your burst, try and ruin their burst.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

alchemyst.2165:

lorndarken.3702:

alchemyst.2165:

@ OP

The thing that makes a class balanced is that they have weaknesses. You’re saying that those weaknesses shouldn’t be there, therefore making the class OP.

There’s a reason you don’t have certain things like mobility. It’s because it would just overpower the class. There has to be strengths and weaknesses of a class.

play a necromancer , and when you do , go to pvp and compete in servers that are 1 vs 1 , enjoy lol

Actually I’ve done that before, I made a d/d necro and it’s so fun just to 3 shot people with Lich form and Death shroud.

And if I’m not doing that, I have good tankiness, damage even outside of Lich/DS, and leech. Heck, I even remember staying alive in a 1v2 or 1v3 in pvp with d/d at around 10-20% hp for around 1 or 2 minutes straight with no help from allies, and I even managed to kill one of them.

Were they all wearing Clerics amulet or something? D/D necro won’t survive a 1v3 for even 45 seconds against decent players. That’s not to say you have no hope of downing one, but you certianly didn’t last that long against players that were halfway decent.

Nah, it was more like I was about to die but I used my #2 on dagger while staying just outside their range, waiting for death shroud to come up, stay in that as long as possible, then heal, rinse and repeat. I survived pretty long against them, I surprised myself. Also now that I recall I believe it was just a 1v2.

But don’t get me started on terrormancer…lol.

lorndarken.3702:

alchemyst.2165:

@ OP

The thing that makes a class balanced is that they have weaknesses. You’re saying that those weaknesses shouldn’t be there, therefore making the class OP.

There’s a reason you don’t have certain things like mobility. It’s because it would just overpower the class. There has to be strengths and weaknesses of a class.

play a necromancer , and when you do , go to pvp and compete in servers that are 1 vs 1 , enjoy lol

Actually I’ve done that before, I made a d/d necro and it’s so fun just to 3 shot people with Lich form and Death shroud.

And if I’m not doing that, I have good tankiness, damage even outside of Lich/DS, and leech. Heck, I even remember staying alive in a 1v2 or 1v3 in pvp with d/d at around 10-20% hp for around 1 or 2 minutes straight with no help from allies, and I even managed to kill one of them.

I have to disagree here, all of the stealth and acrobatics is what keeps a thief alive, either of them is pretty much necessary for the survival of a thief. The problem isn’t stealth or acro, it’s the fact that people just want the easiest way to get their loot bag without thinking. And to be honest, there are many things thief needs improvement on, we REALLY don’t need more nerfs. While I do agree there should be some reworking to thief, I don’t think this is the way to go. Imo they just need to make the things that suck (certain utilities, traits, weapon skills) and turn them into something people can actually use.

@ OP

The thing that makes a class balanced is that they have weaknesses. You’re saying that those weaknesses shouldn’t be there, therefore making the class OP.

There’s a reason you don’t have certain things like mobility. It’s because it would just overpower the class. There has to be strengths and weaknesses of a class.

Well it’s not the best starter weapon since its mostly skill and timing based but its certainly very viable in WvW. In high tier pvp it’s not really viable, though.

The standard build for D/D in wvw is 2/6/6 with zerk/valk/cav gear and whatever runes you like best for damage really.

However, I use 0/6/2/6/0 since I like the playstyle of Acro d/d. Same gear, with strength runes.

D/D is overall a good weapon set, but is one of the harder ones to use. Unfortunately it lacks a good dual skill for power thieves. It has good chase and damage.

NinjaEd.3946:

Medi guard doesn’t hard counter thief, medi guard is just hard to take down. We the thieves, are not a special case… we don’t need straight up buffs, we need changes with over half of our kit being kitten useless!

Can I get an amen!?

AMEN!

Sort of.

/15characters

Indeed it is quite hilarious. Good job anet, you make our lackluster traits even more lackluster. I believe a rework is needed.

Im pretty sure the steal bug has been fixed for a while.

At least, for me it has been.

Oh god, I think this is turning into a P/P argument.

I can see both sides of the argument. What I see it as is, it used to carry you a LOT, now it takes some skill to use. While I can see why a p/p user or even s/p user would be affected a lot by this change, d/p doesn’t totally rely on BP since you have Headshot, shadow shot, and stealth. P/P I can see why people are upset, but P/P isn’t that good anyways (it can be with the right build and skill) and S/P has pistol whip.

And to anybody who disagrees with somebody else, please be respectful about it. Don’t say “you obviously have no idea what you’re talking about”. Taking other people’s opinions into consideration can be very helpful, and all of them matter.

So that’s just my opinion, feel free to agree or disagree.

Acro D/D

0/6/2/6/0 with zerk/cav armor and strength runes is actually pretty good. I’ve been tinkering around with traits and such, and I think it will be my new main setup.

Just something for you to try…I don’t want to lose another fellow thief to the condi meta q.q

wipes tear from eye That…that was beautiful. So touching. 10/10.

Cam Ron.4170:

alchemyst.2165:

Actually I was thinking about trying the evasion runes. I think they would work great, but for my playstyle I’d rather have more swiftness uptime and more power. Honestly though I think they’d work great. You might lose some dps though, since you’re getting ferocity instead of power and power > ferocity but I’m sure there are ways around it.

Love the build, I like it better than SA build for small scale battles.

And why not strength runes + might on dodge/endurance regen food? I think that’s the superior setup for DPS.

Also, you may want to consider assassin’s equilibrium trait, I’m certainly enjoying it

That’s a great question. It’s mostly because I like the extra swiftness, fury and might buff from the 4 on pack runes, and also because I’m trying to save money for Incinerator Also I feel Pack runes are also more versatile between builds, since I switch builds a lot.

But I might buy them once I have spare money.

And thanks for the feedback

Actually I was thinking about trying the evasion runes. I think they would work great, but for my playstyle I’d rather have more swiftness uptime and more power. Honestly though I think they’d work great. You might lose some dps though, since you’re getting ferocity instead of power and power > ferocity but I’m sure there are ways around it.

Due to so many SA thieves running around, and the fact that I want to enjoy something different, I decided to craft a build for D/D around evades as a method of defense, rather than stealth. It takes some getting used to, but I was actually quite surprised that I wasn’t insta-dying from not having SA.

Here’s the build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQRAoY8Yl0Mp0pdPxwJ8PNhPBtdAedD4KEdPjekWA-TFUBABlqChlqEokSiIOBAYpECBTCP8QAURLAaKBvSZSXKFuRNAi2fAFdD5oqCAHBASBIwWA-w

Basically standard crit strikes traits, with usual acro traits. I have the 2 in SA for the extra condi clear, which is a trait that I just needed with the overload of condi builds.
You have to give up mug sadly for it, which is something that I really had to get used to.

Signet of agility for extra evades, and a condi clear.
Withdraw for easy quick heal + vigor uptime, standard for an acro build.

S/D offhand actually works very well especially against power builds now. If you’re in trouble you can spam evades + Flanking strike. The evade is actually stronger than shortbow #3, it has a 1/2 second evade rather than a 1/4 second evade, and same init cost.

I just wanted to make something different that people don’t really use in WvW for D/D. I wanted to make something new that I could learn to master. For me I’d rather be an acrobatic fighter rather than a stealth fighter. However, due to prolonged use of SA, it will take some getting used to for me.

Pros of this build:
-Does very well against power/zerker builds from lots of evades
-Good damage (might be slightly less than 2/6/6 but I haven’t really tested it yet)
-High mobility
-Good fury uptime (from pack runes and furious retaliation)
-Good condi clearing for an acro build

Cons:
-Less might stacking
-No mug
-No blinds (but you don’t need them since you have evades)
-You have to have last refuge

May put up a video of this build in WvW. Just thought I’d share this build with the forum. Let me know your guys’ thoughts!

It’s not even that bad, I tried it and it’s pretty fun to do a kitten ton of evading if you don’t hit, but if you hit you get a good amount of dmg and boonsteal. So imo its fine.

But if ur quitting S/D, I think that’s good cus there needs to be less perma evade S/D thieves out there. So…congrats?

fellyn.5083:

alchemyst.2165:

Maybe you should just deal with it and learn to effectively prepare your burst without a simple press of F1.

Also another example of “Nerf X because its hard for me to kill them”

I love how everyone is pointing at thieves this patch when in reality we didn’t get that many buffs.

Didn’t get “that many buffs” is better than 95% of the buffs that warrior got. The 5% because greatsword burst might, might, be useful after the patch.

The thing is, Warriors will still be incredibly strong after patch. The only good buffs thieves got were Ricochet buff and Dagger cleave. They will still be a sub-par class in several areas compared to the others.

NinjaEd.3946:

How about a, dare I say, middle ground for those for and against this.

Increase the aftercast of backstab to 1 second. Additional effect, gain quickness for 1 second on successful backstab hit.

This punishes the thief for missing a backstab so they can’t so quickly try again, but reverses that punishment if they make contact so the aftercast is essentially ignored.

There is your example of a reasonable suggestion instead of just “give them reveal if they miss because stealth = adrenaline and Life force = adrenaline and pets = adrenaline, etc”. I remember some main warriors actively protesting against flat out comparing 1 mechanic to another and here we are, seeing a warrior doing just that with zero regard to the profession as a whole. Please be reasonable if you want something changed :/

Honestly I’d be cool with that. Wouldn’t be so much a nerf as it is a change.

Thieves shouldn’t get revealed on blind/block/aegis etc. It wouldn’t be proper counterplay to spam these blinds/blocks/aegis/evades and get a thief revealed. If so, you could probably reveal a thief literally every time he stealthed. Thief is already seriously unforgiving, even with our ports, evades, blinds, and stealths.

Miss a CnD? You’re susceptible to huge burst and left like a sitting duck.
Mistime a dodge? You’re screwed.
Miss mug at low hp? You’re dead.
Run out of initiative? Again, you’re a sitting duck.

I could go on. My point is, thief doesn’t need to be even MORE unforgiving. If this change happened thief would be unplayable.

I agree. We should be given an option to trigger these skills.

Why would we want every class to have perma evades?

Every class has a method of defense. Thieves have evades/stealth. Necro has Deathshroud and overall tankiness. Guardians have blocks/blinds/invulns. Warriors smash their face against the keyboard.

Adding MORE tankiness to certain classes would just be idiotic. Some classes rely more on evades than others. That’s a good thing, it increases diversity between classes. It also helps keep certain classes’ defense levels in check.

What should happen instead of stability, is protection when attacking from stealth for like, 3 seconds. Something more universal than stability. Would give more survival outside of SA.

Have to agree with OP shadowstep should clear condis on the first port.

Maybe you should just deal with it and learn to effectively prepare your burst without a simple press of F1.

Also another example of “Nerf X because its hard for me to kill them”

I love how everyone is pointing at thieves this patch when in reality we didn’t get that many buffs.

METAShift.2913:

Zeta.3198:

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQNAoYVlsMp8pdPx0J0PNxOBtdAq9E4+EdoEd1CA-TFDFABrpF4Q1Ikb/BAOFAXpEEJlPC8EAQRlgkUClhmg00BoiqKBAOA+tvBwzx588wDP8wDXKgn2CA-w

In my opinion this is a fairly good burst build for roaming that also grants some survival capability.

Credits to Yishis

No offense, but I don’t think that’s a very good build. It’s effective at killing bad players, people who aren’t paying attentions and people who get tired of fighting you. It’s unfavored against most serious roamers/pvpers because it’s predictable as hell and doesn’t put a lot of pressure(lack of poison on steal for example, is really crucial). It was a bit better pre-ferocity, but right now this build is outdated, IMO. You may be able to kill zerker bearbow rangers and think “oh wow this has so much burst” but the main way to win with this build is by dragging out fights and resetting until the other player makes a mistake or has no cooldowns, I wouldn’t recommend it.

d/d in general is a bit of a bad spec right now, as it does almost nothing better than d/p except straight up one shot burst damage.

I’d have to agree here…Get rid of the 2 in acro and put it to mug. Helps out MUCH more that way.

Also, change the runes, the speed boost may be nice in wvw but the stats aren’t that good. If you want speed and damage, I’d go for pack.

Get some cavalier armor in there too.

Here’s my build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQRAoY6YlsMp0pdPxyJ8PNBNBtdFGeI4uGrYGaFAA-TVUDABdqChjqEIkSiEOBAQpEKENBDcEAAwkwBPEAR0CAmSwnUmUlShXUDgn9HARnQMqqQKAB2CA-w

Delete last refuge, replace it with Assassin’s Equilibrium.

evilapprentice.6379:

alchemyst.2165:

Im gonna be honest, I don’t think its that big of a deal. And if we had Torment removal on those heals it’d probably be op. I mean, 4 condition cleanses? Especially on a 15 second heal.

You’re thinking of withdraw – that’s the 15s CD heal. HiS is 30s. Additionally, withdraw only removes movement impairing conditions, no damaging conditions. RFI is a stunbreaking utility with a 60s CD which also removes movement impairing conditions.

Sorry, I meant it would be especially op on withdraw since its 4 condi cleanses on a 15 second heal. I meant it wouldn’t be as bad on HiS, as it makes more sense. I should have been clearer.

But honestly I don’t think we should be thinking about torment, just buff the thief’s overall removal outside of stealth. Buffing pain response would be a huge step forward for the thief. I’m all for more condi removal outside of stealth. Give us more versatile options.

Example: Remove a condition when you use X type of skill.

Also shadow step should remove condis on the FIRST teleport. I don’t want to blow two shadowsteps just to cure conditions.

hihey.1075:

phaeris.7604:

You never see them facing good PU mesmers, or condi engineers.

In all honesty, who WANTS to see a fight against a PU mesmer? Who even wants to fight against one?
As for condi engineers, the typical WvW thief with SA should beat them no problem.

I have to disagree with you there, condi engis are a problem for any thief imo. But that’s just my experience.

And yeah nobody wants to watch a fight against a PU Mesmer, its just insanely stupid and usually a very long fight.

Im gonna be honest, I don’t think its that big of a deal. And if we had Torment removal on those heals it’d probably be op. I mean, 4 condition cleanses? Especially on a 15 second heal.

Also I thought that if you had all the DoT conditions with SA you could cure them all with HiS? I thought it cured the condis, and then one last condi. But I could be wrong, cus I don’t really pay attention to it.

Im pretty sure it’s because the actual cap of crit chance is 99%, could be wrong but sometimes you just get really unlucky. Happens to me too.

coglin.1867:

yolo swaggins.2570:

Mayama.1854:

yolo swaggins.2570:

Just pointing out a few things:

1.) There is no such thing as “perma” anything for the thief. If a thief was “perma-resetting” they would be immortal which is just exaggerating a falacy..

Thieves can reset at will as often as they want. To proof it you just need to watch a twitch or youtube video from any decent thief. I mean theirs even a good example on the thief forum right now, the video of that engi that duels P/D thieves. In every single video the thief constantly reseted the fight and only died because he overextended or did a stupid mistake. Its known throughout the community that a thief can reset as often as he wants if he knows what he does.

That still isn’t perma-resetting.

Secondly, resetting is a double-edged sword since both parties get reset; not to mention that if the thief keeps resetting, it means that the other player is superior. All said player has to do is manage their snares better and up their DPS and they will get their kill. So there shouldn’t be a problem here.

Yeah it kinda is “perma-resetting” in this context.

As far as the “double edge sword” aspect, thats is not the case. Which is in itself the problem. A thief not skilled enough to kill another play can keep “perma-resetting” and try again all they like. That is an option that no other profession has. No other profession can play badly AND get away with it by resetting to try again. When other professions play badly, they die.

Actually, not true. A few other classes can do that. Warrior is a prime example.

And as he said, them resetting basically means that you win, so what is the issue? Just cus you don’t get your bag doesn’t mean you didn’t win the fight.

Azure.8670:

thief should have its footsteps shown in the ground with a 1-2 second delayed effect when stealthing

Whats the point of stealth…..If you can see where they are?

Good players can already practically see exactly where a thief is in stealth. You just have to look at the clues and hints and predict what they’re going to do.

Adding on to my previous post, the build looks something like this (I just quickly added some pvt)

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQNAoYVlsMp0pdPxxJ8PNRLBt9Ii+L88MxRzHEAA-TlSBABZpc6hHAAlqrYmSwIOCAXt/okpSVKwTfwCHCAAOBAkCIilRA-w

Your slight lack of crit dmg is made up for through power and survivability.

Note: This is basically just if you want to play it seriously. YOu of course don’t have to. do what you want to do

Actually what you want to do is add some pvt armor in there, maybe change the traits to 5/6/0/0/3 if you’re going down that route. But maybe you like the extra steal range, I get that.

But by adding pvt armor you’re porbably going to increase your damage and increase survivability. Your utility food gives 6% power based on toughness and 4% on vitality, so by adding survivability you’re increasing your damage output. Sure, you may lose some crit rate and %, but it makes up for it in the long run.

(Note, this is before watching the video)