When you get nerfed and people still complain about it being op
Doing this could actually theoretically increase build diversity.
Because class swapping would be locked, it would force players to try and come up with more than just one build to suit different situations, allowing for build options to open up. It would encourage people to run more than just one build. Instead of swapping classes completely, players could run a different build to better suit the team’s needs instead.
Either that or everyone runs guardian.
Yes. I run it and it works fine.
I hope this isn’t a serious post
This would be true, except the current system only gives the illusion of personal accountability.
Regardless of whether you’re solo or duo queue, you’re still on a team with 3-4 other people. It’s a team game, and the current system basically says “Well since you’re solo that means you’re responsible for the entire game.” Which isn’t true. Yes, good players should be able to carry. But there comes a point when matchmaking screws you anyway.
One good solo player in a team of bads vs a team of average/good players. It happens. Some things you simply can’t carry, especially depending on class, and that’s the truth.
However, if the game actually acknowledged this, then yes, what you said would be valid. But the system isn’t as personal as it thinks it is.
Right now it seems that rating gain/loss only takes into account individual mmr. If this isn’t the case correct me, but it would make more sense for it to take team mmr into account when deciding rating gain/loss.
If you’re with players that have an mmr fairly lower than yours, and you lose, the system punishes you and you get more rating dropped. The system expects you to carry every single match to progress, which is just silly. It says “Well, you lost against a team that you should have beat.” But it’s only taking into account you as an individual player, not the rest of the team. Based on individual mmr, yes, you should have, but not everyone on the team may have as high of mmr as you, which I’ve noticed happen a lot recently.
So if this isn’t already the case, this should be considered.
Micro-managing AA is honestly one of your best skills to have against ranged classes. It’s also good for learning how to stick and keep pressure on kiting foes; As you AA, you may need to dodge quickly in an emergency, but you can still continue raw sustained dps after dodging if you know how to manage it.
Eh. It’s only really useful in certain situations/against bads. The true potential of the set doesn’t come from just vault, which is something most people don’t seem to understand.
…when people spend more time complaining about a playerbase rather than simply playing said game that is so much better
Considering most people are sadly just bad at staff due to them having a wrong idea of playing it, d/p staff is usually the same way due to people not playing it correctly/capitalizing on its strengths while recognizing weaknesses. But if you know how to use it effectively it’s a good build. Lots of people are turned off by not having a shortbow, but on pretty much every map there’s workarounds and better spots since you have vault.
TL;DR: Don’t be dumb with it and d/p staff works
Edit: To add, one isn’t necessarily better than the other, both have their pros and cons. But if we measure effectiveness by the players using it, shortbow is more effective obviously due to familiarity. Not a lot of people actually know how to play staff well, so it is a hindrance to many. But when learned, staff is incredibly powerful in a variety of situations.
(edited by alchemyst.2165)
The problem is that most people think that the only skill on staff is Vault. People don’t take the time to learn it properly due to vault being the “big” skill. One really has to learn how to use each of the skills on staff efficiently to be effective with it. Every time I see a thief doing nothing but pressing 5 as soon as they hit 5 initiative I cringe.
I do agree with the claim that staff has the most potential when mastered, at least in duels. I haven’t played much pvp at all recently, but from my experience throughout the seasons staff is quite successful in pvp as well.
TL;DR: nobody knows how to play staff and that’s why it sucks
Invuln change was only in pvp.
Yeah, all this buzz about winning outnumbered fights doesn’t seem to be a big deal to me, considering I’ve 2v10d before HoT with core thief and won plenty of other types of outnumbered fights with it. All you really need to win an outnumbered fight is higher intelligence than the players you’re facing. Pretty much any class can do it- this isn’t some ridiculous thing that only daredevils can do. “I won an outnumbered fight with my class, it must be op!” No, you were just a person facing bad players and beating them. That’s what most outnumbered fights are.
“Staff acro dodge thief is op. I don’t know what makes it op or how to nerf it but its op trust me.”
If reasonable evidence can’t be provided, then you can’t really make a claim like that.
I didn’t think I’d need to prove my point seeing as most people already know what I’m talking about. Also I the whole premise of the thread was that the amount of dodges were stupid, but it looks like you’re not fully understanding what I’m trying to say so let me explain it more simply.
Acro thief can dodge too much.
X specialization of Y Class can Z too much. This has been true for pretty much every class ever since HoT. Nerfing thief would cause it to become supbar relative to other classes once again.
Now, if powercreep were to be toned down equally across all classes, that would be a smarter move for the game without hurting comparative strength across classes. Relative balance is fairly decent right now (much better than before). Thief is stronger now, but not op.
You’re also talking about a build that’s really only used in duels, and the game isn’t designed around dueling.
“Staff acro dodge thief is op. I don’t know what makes it op or how to nerf it but its op trust me.”
If reasonable evidence can’t be provided, then you can’t really make a claim like that.
looks like someone got killed by a staff thief
I kind of like it, but yeah, it’s a bit close to what engis do. I’d love an arsonist-type thief, though. Maybe even a flamethrower.
I think it’s good that they’re taking baby steps at a time. Drastic changes to classes just causes everything to be very out of balance. While I would have liked to have seen more buffing of underpowered sets, it gives me hope that they are able to recognize areas they need to improve. So I get why they’re taking small steps. They don’t want to go too far and cause imbalance then (try) to fix it later with more drastic changes.
all i could saw is nice duels but really not effective in pvp
spending 2 min fighting versus DH and see block block, evade ,block and immunity pops up you called it balance???
if you had 2 dodge like most classes you wouldnt be able to do that at all as thief.the DH cooldowns are more shorter than thief. his healing abilities is much greater combine with the blocks and immunity.
as p/p i can take down DH in open field till he burn his cds but it will take some time does it mean its good one? NO
DH strong now – yes i get it . and no they hardly used in team fight as in team fight you need combine forces which DH lacks (mostly speed and rotation)
He literally said it was a build for roaming lol.
Min finally uploading videos!
Didn’t have time to watch each one fully but good stuff. You need to get to making montages :P
I don’t think greatsword would fit thematically with a thief, or be an extension of its archetype at all. Just because there’s one katana skin doesn’t mean it would be a good fit. Although it would look cool. Daredevils/staff extends from the bruiser/thug-type thief. They don’t care about getting their hands dirty and roughing people up. Greatsword doesn’t really fit with any thief extension/archetype.
Dual sword could work, but I’d rather them implement a decent ranged weapon first. Down the line, though, dual sword would be a nice thing to have.
I think the former should be kept to a minimum, or at least have more counterplay options.
Or you could just close it…
Imagine ricochet proccing on headshot with pulm on lol
I haven’t played a normal game of it yet, just dueling in it, but these are my observations.
-I liked the map overall, but there are some odd breaks in flow, and kind of counter-intuitive. It’s like you’re expecting to go one place but then you’re not able to, and you’re kind of stuck in an “oh” moment. But that may just be getting used to the map. For example, the floor between mid and side points is raised, but you think you can jump up to it, and you cant, at least without a leap skill. I also was a bit surprised that we couldn’t actually get to the bridges, which leads me to my next point.
-More elevation. The map is pretty low to the ground overall, with no variation in height really. Again, I was surprised you couldn’t actually get up to the bridges. It may not make total sense for a coliseum, but it makes for more exciting gameplay to have variation in elevation.
-Graphics. The map is very bright with postprocessing on, I had to turn it off, and even then it was still rather bright. There’s also not much color variation, having it be very grey and monotone. Some vibrant reds and more variation in actual map design should be there.
I can’t really comment on mechanics since I haven’t played it in an actual match yet. But I like the concept of this map.
There’s not really a reason to change it, it’s perfectly fine as is.
I’m glad somebody actually asked about this constructively.
Once you get down the evade timings, the fight is actually extremely easy, just annoying.
Death blossom evade ends about after the peak of the jump; time your CC’s then. You can also hit someone at the end of their dodge (if they don’t double dodge), my friend likes to call it “evade cutting” but this is a bit harder to do.
Basically, just kite around and watch them flip around aimlessly. Periodically, they run out of things to do. Use that moments to CC them, maybe bait some stunbreaks, immob them, etc. It’s all about timing. The mistake most people make is just to keep attacking even when they just keep evading; don’t do this. Don’t waste your CC’s randomly, time it at the end of their evade to cut it off or cut off their death blossom.
As a thief main since beta I have to disagree with you.
Thief is harder than some of the other builds like druid or warrior, but that’s kinda the point. You offer different rewards to your for playing better (high risk, high reward). Thief is perfectly effective when the job is done correctly.
That is exactly the point OP is talking about. Other classes are too easy to play and to have success with, compared to thief and this is not balanced at all. Even if tasks are different, this is not an excuse for makinga class accomplish its task in an easier way than thieves.
Classes being harder to play than other isn’t a design problem as long as it reaps unique/better rewards, which, in my experience, is true for the thief. Bad thieves will carry the team you’re playing against, good thieves will carry the team you’re playing for.
If for bad do you mean mechanically unskilled, I can reply that unskilled players playing guardians are being carried by class mechanics. That is not the same for thieves. The balance problem lies here
Did you read what I said?
Harder to play = bigger rewards. This is true for the thief. A carry build, however, can only carry so far. There comes a point in this game where skill/smarts will simply outmatch a carry build.
As a thief main since beta I have to disagree with you.
Thief is harder than some of the other builds like druid or warrior, but that’s kinda the point. You offer different rewards to your for playing better (high risk, high reward). Thief is perfectly effective when the job is done correctly.
That is exactly the point OP is talking about. Other classes are too easy to play and to have success with, compared to thief and this is not balanced at all. Even if tasks are different, this is not an excuse for makinga class accomplish its task in an easier way than thieves.
Classes being harder to play than other isn’t a design problem as long as it reaps unique/better rewards, which, in my experience, is true for the thief. Bad thieves will carry the team you’re playing against, good thieves will carry the team you’re playing for.
As a thief main since beta I have to disagree with you.
Thief is harder than some of the other builds like druid or warrior, but that’s kinda the point. You offer different rewards to your for playing better (high risk, high reward). Thief is perfectly effective when the job is done correctly.
this is art
/15chars
It’s because you can make good use of a 3rd dodge bar (any time your endurance is over 100, it’s helping you) so we have a much larger capacity for evades, which, coupled with the amount of endurance-regening traits/skills we have, is very helpful, although it seems like a useless upgrade to have at times. We technically also got modified dodges, so that’s there too.
So it’s not as flashy or cool as some other upgrades, but it’s used just as much, if not more, as it’s a passive boost and not another ability, like berserker stance or continuum shift.
This guy said he ends in sapphire/beginning of ruby but expects himself to be credible…
Sorry, but if you’re getting beat by a thief in PvP when there’s two of you, the two of you are just playing very poorly.
In duels they can be. 25 stacks of might, spamming staff from range while letting smokescale and bristleback burst, stealthing and healing to full when low. Then there’s ancient seeds you have to deal with…
It’s a lot to try and handle. Even slightly tanky druids can just outsustain the whole fight while letting pets and staff 1 do their damage.
Because those traits are in power/crit lines.
Potent poison is in DA as is Needle trap and dagger mastery. All of these related to conditions and while Posion on steal can certainly help Power builds, it helps a Condition build more.
He never mentioned those he was referring to the listed examples which are on Crit strikes, the op mentioned only those ones specifically.
Well no. I was pointing out there was condition damage traits on the DA line and one of the traits he mentioned comes off the DA line (exposed weakness)
It’s because DA tends to lean more toward power due to anet not even knowing what they want the line to be. I guess it was stated by them that it’s more for “finishing people off”. The only real condition damage trait in that line is potent poison.
Because those traits are in power/crit lines.
Thanks for the constructive feedback, everyone. It is highly appreciated.
@vaxjani I’m glad you brought up the repeating of effects thing. I wasn’t sure myself to repeat them, especially during that second song during the beat drop. I think my mentality was “it fits fairly well with the drop and I wanted to highlight that” but in hindsight I did use that same “glitch” a lot. So thanks for bringing that up.
Did you know that we started playing thief at the same time? And I even learned stuff from your videos back in the day – mostly combos.
No offense, I know what you can do, but this looks like facerolling against baddies – and it’s the game’s fault.ETA: I’m still watching: There are some rather good enemies or situations in which you’re in danger but you chose to mess with the videoeffects – don’t =) I know how much fun it is to match a song to a video but there are other ways to do so – slow motion for example.
Yeah. Wvw is not the best place to highlight skill, as stereotypically the player skill isn’t as high. In terms of montages I try to make them more enjoyable rather than a shocwcase. However, I’m wanting to start to move more towards just videos with minimal editing, and have better situations that are more interesting and just have notes/analysis of it.
As for the editing, I get what you mean. Whenever I do a skip or something of the sort I try my best to make sure nothing important is left out, so just know you aren’t missing much. It does break flow, though, so it’s basically a matter of immersion vs. entertainment, which the latter is what I usually lean toward as far as montages go. I am, however, going to experiment with different methods in the future since I’m starting to lean toward more highlights rather than just killing bads (I try to include more interesting fights toward the end with less editing). But thanks a ton for the feedback, it is noted!
It’s Marauder/Soldier/ some other things with daredevil runes. I forget exactly what it is, but ill post a build later.
D/P staff is nice because it’s adaptable to multiple situations. If not having a shortbow is a turn off for you in pvp i’d try it in WvW first. With dash you can make up for the horizontal mobility loss, but you do lose that on demand vertical mobility.
You can, however, work around certain spots and get to places you couldn’t with a shortbow, due to having vault.
Here’s Vol . 4 of my roaming series. I did a bit more editing on this one and I’m not sure if it’s too much, so let me know, but either way I hope you guys enjoy it.
I don’t think one set is necessarily better than the other, but it makes a difference in playstyle and how it benefits a team. Staff is good for both 1v1ing and larger fights due to AoE. However, LOTS of people really do not know how to use staff whatsoever, focusing more on spamming 5 than utilizing every single skill on the set for different uses and situations, which is why most thieves are bad at staff.
That being said, a good staff thief can add a bit more versatility to a team due to the fact that you have a better chance at most 1v1s and can also be more effective in teamfights. There is tradeoff, however.
With staff over D/P, you get:
+AoE
+Evades/Self-Sustain
-Stealth
-Interrupt on Demand
With D/P over staff, you get:
+Stealth
+Interrupt on Demand
-AoE
-Evades/Self-Sustain
So, in conclusion, it really depends on how you play, what benefits your playstyle, what your team needs and simply whether you’re better at one or the other. Most thieves are better at D/P.
Yes. A good thief still shines. The last patch just made more of a split between good and bad (regardless of if the stealth attack nerf was needed or not). Good thieves will continue to excel.
Yes, the joke class of the game needs more nerfs.
In the case of the Trapper thief, yes it needs to be nerfed. The mechanic is absurd, annoying and outright dangerous when two or more are around.
By that point, it’s simply a 2v1 problem. Obviously two or more against one person has the odds favored in the two. The mechanic is annoying, but very easily countered. The only thing it’s really good for is killing one single person quickly if theyre just standing there or crossing through a gate or something.
We eventually killed that mosquito when we lure him and throw everything so he didnt have time to escape. But really annoying and needs to get nerfed.
Annoying =/= needs to be nerfed. It’s perfectly counterable, pretty much even by walking in the opposite direction of their traps. (Or reveal)
I want to know why thief can stay stealthed and deal damage without get revealed. They are really annoying and unfair.
They can’t. Unless they’re a trapper condi thief, which in that case, all you have to do is literally walk in the other direction.
S/D isn’t really good at chasing any more after the patch. Actually, S/D isn’t really that good at all any more. You can get away with it at lower levels/hotjoins, but overall D/P or staff is much better.
Chanelled skills will follow you through stealth (unless they have target switching on).
Seriously, even with 3k toughness which is mediocre (first of all what lol), a rev can crit my thief with the sword 2 ability (3 times due to targeting) for about 4-5k. FOR ONE kittening USE. Plus the extremely overpowered chilling. Viper rev got it once up to 8 seconds on me. And what if your cleanse got wasted for one of this? well, there will be another Precision Strike.
The only real difference it’s made for me is in thief v thief when we’re both in stealth, and we can’t spam it any more. Otherwise, it’s actually improved my play. My timing is much better overall, and I’m paying more attention to enemy movements. I actually can time my backstabs so I can hit them right after their bound during stealth, or do the same with a noscope shadow shot.
Although the CD is annoying and didn’t take backstab’s aftercast into account, I’m starting to get used to it.
Since I’m a non native: I found anoscope but no noscope – what are you talking about? :P And what is “right after their bound”?
And one random thing: You’re the thief who plays the most accurate I’ve ever seen.
I partly agree: I got a bit used to it, but the cooldown doesn’t feel right, it’s a mess in smallscale where someone uses CC – so I still don’t think this really should’ve been brought into game and not 1s long.
What I mean by noscoping is simply launching shadow shot in their general position when they are stealthed (noscope = without targeting). Basically, when a thief is Bounding through black powder, you can predict when their bound is going to end, and fire shadow shot in their black powder (you can hit someone right at the end of their dodge, but it takes practice/good timing). The cooldown has pretty much forced me to reinforce good timing, is what I’m saying. But I do completely get where people are coming from with the cooldown not being needed. I honestly just think it will separate good thieves from bad ones more, in the long run.
The only real difference it’s made for me is in thief v thief when we’re both in stealth, and we can’t spam it any more. Otherwise, it’s actually improved my play. My timing is much better overall, and I’m paying more attention to enemy movements. I actually can time my backstabs so I can hit them right after their bound during stealth, or do the same with a noscope shadow shot.
Although the CD is annoying and didn’t take backstab’s aftercast into account, I’m starting to get used to it.
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