Guild Wars 2

I go anywhere from 16k to 19k. Mara is a great choice, I personally use Mara/Soldier/some other stats.

Keldash.3602:

You’re angry like every other thief because they fixed a bug that was NOT intended, regardless of how you feel about S/x. it was a bug and they fixed it.

Regardless, it was a big part of S/D offense. Now, S/D doesn’t really have any offensive pressure at all, since it has been nerfed over and over with little to no compensation. It plays nothing like old 2/0/0/6/6, which was probably the prime of S/D. I think Anet needs to step back and look more back at that playstyle for S/D, and try to compensate for S/D’s lack of offensive pressure. (Buffing X/D would be a great step forward as well)

Thief is one of those classes when played perfectly, you get heavily rewarded. Even still, however, playing well can easily be negated by a passive or a random defensive utility fairly easily.

However, depending on the game mode, a thief that is much more skilled than you will (or, at least, SHOULD) decimate you. It’s a high skill cap class, with not much room for error.

Last I checked PvP was meant to be a team mode.

SoloQ isn’t an actual option any more, so either deal with it and play, or stop playing. Or you could get a team. Ultimately, this is a team game, obviously there are going to be premades.

watches and chews popcorn as every class tries to victimize themselves on who has it worst

It kind of feels steamrolly. Once a team holds the initial caps, points are so far away that it’s incredibly hard to get enough points quickly to even think of coming back. But that’s just after 4 or 5 unranked matches. Maybe opinions and strategies will change.

Ragion.2831:

alchemyst.2165:

That’s because the vocal majority is usually the upset minority. Most people who are satisfied are actually playing the game, rather than people who QQ more on the forums than they do spending time on the game.

That is not even close to being true and I really hope that is not something that Arena Net believes. If you break down all the complaints in the pvp sectionyou can put them into a few categories:

Matchmaking and League System

Quite a few people believe that they are being put in weaker teams because of their MMR. It has already been established that people with low MMR will often end up on a team with low MMR and high MMR are grouped with high MMR. Also there have been several threads about people with old accounts who are stuck in a win-loss cycle only to use a free account and then win nearly all their games to legend division.

People also complain about the league system being a grind fest, you know what is really funny about this complaint? BLIZZARD got the exact same complaint from overwatch players and then they cared enough to change it. Anyone who dismisses this saying it is just a vocal minority should check themselves.

Class Balance

Last season If you went in game and asked people who they think the strongest class is, you would have gotten scrapper, condi mesmer, condi warrior and condi necro. If you asked which class they thought carried matches, you would probably have gotten elementalist. Last season majority of the matches were filled with these and people would ask other players to switch to ele and not just ele, but the support ele why not other builds? because conditions took over pvp

forums didnt cause this to happen

When necros and eles complain on forums about not being able to use power builds, is it the vocal minority? did you notice that there were almost zero power necros and eles last season?

When revenants complain about not being able to use non meta builds, is that just a few people? how many non shiro/glint builds were there last season?

Bugs

There are quite a few bugs or things that just work really weird like Revenant. You dont need the forums to know that UA is a hot mess. You dont need the forums to know that spectral grasp and trip wire are getting obstructed by thin air. These are very real problems that are brought up only by the few people who care in the first place.

Note that I said usually. There are plenty of legitimate claims on forums, and there are also things that need to be fixed that go unsaid. But I’m just saying a lot of times things need to be taken with a grain of salt because often times people’s complaints go on emotion rather than fact/logic.

That’s because the vocal majority is usually the upset minority. Most people who are satisfied are actually playing the game, rather than people who QQ more on the forums than they do spending time on the game.

Or people could just use soft mechanical skills such as LoS, positioning, and actual good defensive timing while utilizing active defenses properly to successfully defend against bursts?

I’m not a fan of the idea of giving classes more reveal, but I do love the flashbang idea. I think it’d be cool if it was something like “Whenever you get revealed, drop a flashbang that deals damage, bleeds, and blinds nearby foes.(blast finisher)” with something like a 15-20 second cooldown.

So basically, a blinding powder that deals damage and bleeds whenever you get revealed. But I do like this idea.

facepalm this argument again.

You do realize daredevils have many more endurance-regenerating abilities than other classes, right? It’s pretty easy to go over 100 endurance at any time. Any time you go over 100 endurance, that extra dodge is helping you. It’s the same thing as the preparedness buff, yet I don’t see anybody complaining that it’s not enough. In fact, before specializations, everybody used to put 3 points into trickery JUST for the 3 initiative. Still regenerates the same.

Increasing the cap on endurance opens up a lot more options in a fight, not just one dodge.

If you’re talking about weakening charge, it’s already affected by quickness.

I would say buff base damage of 3-5 on D/D first, then from there buff/rework some of the skills, specifically CnD. Increased range would feel really nice on CnD. Maybe just even around tactical strike range would work, along with an initiative reduction or blind.

Agreed. With the nerf its pretty much a 2 second cooldown. Although, that may be what they were going for.

I can get used to the cooldown, but I wouldn’t mind this change. The thing is, it is counterproductive to the purpose of the nerf, which is making it less spammable. With a reduced aftercast it would pretty much be the same as before, so it probably won’t happen.

saerni.2584:

Yeah, the “nerf” to stealth attacks is slight really. Especially with basi-venom making attacks unblockable. I agree it came out of nowhere…but I’m tempted by the extra boon strip on power builds. I’m tempted by the combo reason to now take shadow arts and reduce the cost of venoms.

People often lose fights because they take a lot of damage after being stunned, or stopped in place. Lots of new opportunities to slow down, impair, and otherwise stop opponents in the new SA line. Maybe some more people will start running it?

An SA build does pretty good in PvP. It’s basically SA/TR/DD, using rending shade, and then in daredevil running pulm and bound. I use Havoc mastery (The point of those traits is to try and regain damage loss from SA). It pretty much shuts down druids and eles. At the start of the game I was able to 1v1 a druid, taking far, head to mid and then pretty much shut down the ele, allowing my team to burst them. It’s definitely an interesting build to run. (Although I still think I prefer DA over SA) I think it could very well make some build diversity.

I’m not stressing too much about the 1-second cooldown. You just need decent timing. Overall, I’m not too worried about the state of thief.

Never heard this one before

Staff is good in WvW. You just have to know how to abuse each of the skills in certain situations. 1v1 wise, 3 and 4 are great. In group fights, 2 and 5 are your best friends. It all depends on the situations, and learning what to do in each.

Zenith.7301:

Eval.2371:

alchemyst.2165:

If you’re referring to our damage, it’s fine. Honestly we don’t need any more buffs to it.

If you’re referring to range, it’s the same melee range as any other class.

Totally depends on the context. Most of our damage is from % modifiers

WvW: thief damage is fine.
PvE: thief has some of the best single target dps.
PvP: theif hits well below average.

Why do we hit low in pvp? because a lot of our damage modifiers are % based, and with lower stat pools overall we suffer.

What OP should be asking for is flat damage modifiers.

Thief WvW damage is far from fine lol. A single vault/backstab still does half a revenant’s health in a mug combo with a revenant having 3.6k armor and marauder’s armor with cavalier trinkets.

And thanks to shadowstep you are never dying against anyone in WvW unless it’s another thief.

If you’re getting half your HP gone with 3.6k armor you have other problems lol.

That, or they’re LITERALLY full zerk scholar rune PVE build.

And by the logic that thief damage is far from fine, then in turn, FA ele is far from fine, rifle warrior is far from fine, REVENANT damage is far from fine, etc.

OriOri.8724:

Or just trash their damage. Holding out versus 2 or even 3 enemies is fine if you are good enough to do it (I’m not a fan of passive bunkers either). But you shouldn’t be dealing any damage hardly and I think thats why they are considered broken. A bunker build shouldn’t be able to apply damaging conditions at all, and in my opinion they really shouldn’t be able to apply any conditions period. They are designed to survive, not to kill. You shouldn’t have classes that can do both, and do both well at that

Thank you. Agree with this 100%. The problem with current bunkers is that they have so much damage right now. Sustain and damage need to be separated out more, especially when it’s passive defense.

Bunker guardian was the perfect balance. More builds similar to this need to exist. That’s not to say that brusier-esque builds shouldn’t exist, but on the scale they are now, they can be called bunkers with lots of damage. There needs to be actual tradeoff. Either heavy damage, some damage and some sustain (balance), or low-no damage/high sustain/bunker.

Condi, but not before he calls for help. Or stalemates. It’s usually a waste of time.

Obviously I did miss the post, because I have no idea what you’re talking about. Could you please be more specific on what it is you’re asking?

Edit: Ah, you’re talking about obstructed. Which I don’t know why you’re having a huge problem with, although there are some instances where it is bs, its usually fine for me. Doesn’t happen on flat surfaces. And melee weapons can’t get obstructed…

Although, there are instances where steal gets obstructed.

If you’re referring to our damage, it’s fine. Honestly we don’t need any more buffs to it.

If you’re referring to range, it’s the same melee range as any other class.

sinject.4607:

Chaith.8256:

Scrapper has massive damage numbers because it’s sustained AoE damage, the opposite of bursty single target damage.

don’t forget to mention that it’s also because each Hammer attack hits harder than backstab in terms of base damage.

“hurr durr but thief still hits harder!”; only because we have to trait for all of our damage modifiers while Scrapper’s base damage is good enough to let them invest entirely in defensive traits, even going so far as making Scrapper the only profession that can effectively use Paladin’s because they don’t need the ferocity from Marauder’s/Demolisher’s so long as they have Hammer.

aside from broken base damage, the biggest issue w/Scrapper is it’s gyros. I don’t understand how anyone can defend them given the fact Engineer had a nearly identical Turret build that everyone despised and got nerfed, when this is the same exact thing except now the Turrets can move, absorb damage/reflect (also the reflect on Bulwark gyro is too deceptive, it lasts longer than the bubble actual animation), provide a movable shadow refuge/sic ’em, and also give Scrapper an insane amount of stability in combination with Perfectly Weighted/Final Salvo.

specifically speaking the issue is with Final Salvo. this trait needs a heavy rework, it does WAY too much within one trait, and is rewarding completely passive play. the lightning field is too long and the stability is overkill when they already have perfectly weighted.

Agreed. Their sustain traits, combined with gyros, simply make for very easy, automatic, passive sustain and defense. While not bursty, their damage is sustained that this is a problem combined with their amount of defense and tankiness.

For the amount of insane sustain they have, their damage needs nerfed. It needs to go one way or the other. They’re basically bunkers with damage. My friends are constantly talking about how they break 700k in games when I’m with them, all while holding points 1v2 and pretty much never dying.

Regon Phoenix.8215:

Krysard.1364:

Pip Squeak.3418:

Krysard.1364:

Pip Squeak.3418:

I think a lot of us would enjoy a nice relaxing between seasons unranked romp with properly balanced classes. Thanks!

You shouldnt be asking for a balance patch then

The death of logic… It hurts.

I mean, they are balanced now (except for DH), a balance patch would proly unbalance them.

Unkillable ele;
Unkillable and strong duelist druid;
Perma-evade thief;
18k+ dmg in 2 sec thief;
Infinite sustain warrior with 3 required spec or he falls off;
Annoying stealth+clones mesmer (not an issue, but still annoying);
Crazy damage, sustain, CC, evades rev;
Useless off-meta builds (power reaper, burn guardian, condition scrapper, etc)
Unkillable by projectiles scrapper;
Infinite AOE condition reaper;
etc.

Yes, balanced indeed.

-Not really true
-Somewhat true
-Not true
-Lol what???
-Sustain is high, yes. But that’s not really the problem…
-If its not an issue then why are you bringing it up?
-Rev is fine as is.
-Well, you’re not wrong.
-Unkillable in general*
-Eh.

Calanthe.3857:

snip

Then again I’ll admit I don’t have HOT, so maybe its because I’m not using Druid?

BlaqueFyre.5678:

alchemyst.2165:

Tomiyou.3790:

Zilvereen.2091:

Stun them between their “dagger button 3” spammage

you also need good internet connection :P

No way I can stun them at that point. I don’t have any stuns/daze with no cast time. Any other way?

You don’t need to have no-cast time skills. You just time your skills to hit them during the animation of the skill, but when the evade part is over.

For example: Death blossom. Evades for 1/2 a second. My Bandit’s Defense kick is 1/2 second cast time. So I just kittenoon as I see him use death blossom, because I know it will hit him as soon as the evade portion is over.

You can also feel out when they’re going to evade and stun them accordingly. It’s actually pretty easy.

You can also hit them at the end of their basic dodge, but it takes a bit of practice to do, but is very rewarding. You basically hit your CC button right when the dodge is about to end. Latency will allow you to hit them right at the very end of the dodge.

D/D Condi is just a gimmick. Once you figure it out, not hard to beat. It’s actually a hindrance to their own team.

The evade is only 1/4 on Death Blossom, the animation is 1/2 total

The evade got buffed to 1/2 second. The 1/2 second time refers to the “channel” of the ability. It has an after cast as well, making it ~3/4 seconds.

Because all the people who grinded their way into low-tier ruby are now crying that they have to make a coherent playstyle strategy to kill something that was free food before, and are too lazy/too weak minded to even attempt at effectively adapting their playstyles.

Tomiyou.3790:

Zilvereen.2091:

Stun them between their “dagger button 3” spammage

you also need good internet connection :P

No way I can stun them at that point. I don’t have any stuns/daze with no cast time. Any other way?

You don’t need to have no-cast time skills. You just time your skills to hit them during the animation of the skill, but when the evade part is over.

For example: Death blossom. Evades for 1/2 a second. My Bandit’s Defense kick is 1/2 second cast time. So I just kittenoon as I see him use death blossom, because I know it will hit him as soon as the evade portion is over.

You can also feel out when they’re going to evade and stun them accordingly. It’s actually pretty easy.

You can also hit them at the end of their basic dodge, but it takes a bit of practice to do, but is very rewarding. You basically hit your CC button right when the dodge is about to end. Latency will allow you to hit them right at the very end of the dodge.

D/D Condi is just a gimmick. Once you figure it out, not hard to beat. It’s actually a hindrance to their own team.

Regon Phoenix.8215:

I have ever seen only 3 types of thieves:
1) Perma-evade, perma-stealth or/and unload bursters, who kills you before you even react;
2) Lying thieves, who comes into forum to lie that thieves aren’t OP as hell;
3) Bad thieves who can be killed, if you are lucky.

-Perma-anything doesn’t exist.
-Ganking is kind of what a thief is supposed to do. However, this is actually too counterable due to all of the passives in the game. Literally shut down their burst without doing anything. And if you don’t have passives, I would suggest getting better reaction time.
-Well, they aren’t OP, sorry. Method of defense using evades isn’t op. Video games are designed to make you feel satisfied when you hit something using visual queues, sounds, and effects. When you don’t hit that, you think something is wrong due to you being used to hitting things (except they’re negated by toughness, health, invulns, blocks, and other defenses, but let’s just pretend other defenses don’t exist just like everybody else). However, as I’ve stated before, thieves have a different way of dying. Exploit that. It’s not going to be handed to you with hard counters. Soft counters like good timing and predictability are key.

-If you’re dying to a bad thief I feel sorry for you.

Lol people are saying p/p is op now?

At this point I’m not even gonna take this seriously. What a bad red herring.

I think what people fail to realize is that thieves still die. Evade is pretty much their only defense. They don’t have toughness, invulns, lots of blocks, damage reductions, lots of healing, and condi clear to protect them. Rather than having their health wittled down little by little like other classes, they avoid damage outright, then get a kittenunk of HP taken away.

Just because you aren’t hitting something, doesn’t mean something is flawed with design. It means that’s their form of defense. Considering timed evasions take more skill to use than pressing 1 button and getting invuln, or 50% damage reduction, or instant heal to full, or immunity to conditions, I’d say evades are fine.

Edit: To put it in better wording, it matters less how they die, because they still die. Your offense against them is different, just like it is with any other class. You don’t lay all of your condi burst on a condi necro at once- you’ll get condi transferred. Same thing here. You have to work around it.

Krysard.1364:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Regon Phoenix.8215:

The #1 reason why i stack toughness and vitality – thieves.
If they get removed from game, i would never build any defense.

Revenants and scrappers say hi. kitten, scrappers can sometimes out damage thieves even without ferocity because of might and ridiculous hammer numbers.

But you can kite scrappers. Problem with thieves is not their dmg output, but their burst and chasing capability.

That’s kind of the point. They’re sneaky, slippery, fast, and deadly, but are very squishy and a single mistake can end them. It’s balanced out.

I find it funny/interesting that so many people are calling out thieves as a culprit.

Don’t expect to hit them whenever you want. Hit them (preferably with a cc) during the evade gaps during skills (if you time a skill right at the end of dodge, or during a vuln period in an evade skill, it will hit). All in all, don’t be stupid.

It’s funny to watch them flop around like fish on dry land when you just let them waste evades.

D/D condi is even funnier to watch.

I think it should function like guardian f1. Stacks bleed until you pull them. Initial piercing should do damage. Fix pull.

Kageseigi.2150:

alchemyst.2165:

It’s pointless to engage a DH on point unless you can literally activate all of their traps at once and burst them down right after. Otherwise, you can try to bait them off point and decap, but it’s pretty much pointless.

Sad.
Even then, how can you fight while Test of Faith is sitting there?
It feels like it lasts an eternity, and everything is recharging while it’s up.

Shadowsteps still trigger the damage, correct? So a D/P Thief is left with nothing but Headshots or getting locked into Shortbow for an excessive amount of time. Is that accurate?

What I do is I go into the trap, especially if I know its Dragon’s Maw, and immediately dash out once I see it activate. But even then, like you said you have to wait, and they can just pop an easy f1 (very little telegraph) and pull you back in.

Not a good matchup on point, and even if you do kill them, it usually takes so long it’s pointless.

Kageseigi.2150:

I don’t have HoT, so I haven’t played as a DH myself.

So how is a Thief supposed to engage a DH on point? Even if it’s not 1v1?

Test of Faith is the trap that intimidates me the most, but adding Dragon’s Maw to the mix seems to make even my evade/dodge escape attempts pointless. Sometimes, they work, sometimes, they don’t… so I end up blowing a dodge and two escape utilities before I can get clear. Quite annoying… and deadly.

It’s pointless to engage a DH on point unless you can literally activate all of their traps at once and burst them down right after. Otherwise, you can try to bait them off point and decap, but it’s pretty much pointless.

Technically vault hits more targets, so it has that use. It’s also an evade, and has 600 range leap.

In terms of DPS, however, that’s the reality of PvE. Some skills do more DPS than others, and you should rotate accordingly. Vault does have uses in pve, though, such as if you need to get to a mob fast and deal damage.

Vault is just simply more useful in PvP/WvW. Certain things are just going to be more useful in certain modes.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

alchemyst.2165:

Edit: If I were to change dancing dagger, I guess I would make it a flip over skill as lots of people have suggested. Throw the dagger for 1-2 initiative, and it bounces to each target. Something cool that I think could be added is to have each target marked, and then the next skill is a similar skill to unrelenting assault, but faster and less damage. You would go and slice each target marked once for about 4k. I think it would add a really unique factor to thief and D/D, and it would still be in theme with the name “Dancing Dagger” and thief.

The problem with this is, it puts the Thief in a risky position with little to no reward for both D/D and P/D, but extremely overpower for S/D (DD->IS->DD2->SR).

It would also have initiative as a factor, I forgot to mention. Somewhere around 4-5 initiative? And then put the current dancing dagger to 2. Theoretically, using that combo would leave you with nearly empty initiative.

The second skill would also be optional, so you can pick and choose when you want to enter that type of situation.

I also don’t think CnD should become unblockable, as it should still be a skill that you need good positioning with to land. However, the current state is much too punishing, and for very little reward for its cost/risk. Simply reducing the initiative is a step in the right direction. There should also be more payoff.

The range, combined with the cast time and damage is way too much. It needs one of those things nerfed.

I made a montage, here it is.

Probably my favorite one to edit, so leave some feedback, and enjoy

It’s pretty fun, and actually fairly doable if you play it right.

You can run the fun troll version that is full of stunlocks, or you can run a more serious version. Obviously take bound as your dodge, but really that’s all you need to go off of. Pretty fun in PvP/WvW.

Still really think they need to buff death blossom damage, as you don’t really have much sustained pressure on D/D, so giving it a bit of actual power damage might help.

Cloak and dagger still needs to be brought down to 5 initiative, or given a blind.

Dancing dagger changes could give the set some much needed utility, but I don’t really have a decent suggestion right now. It doesn’t necessarily need changed, but a buff/rework to it would increase the viability, hopefully to the level of d/p at least.

D/P has: Interrupt, Teleport, Blind, Stealth, Damage.
D/D has: Damage, Evade, Bleed, Cripple, Stealth.

The difference here is a lack of utility in D/D. It would be wise to add in some form of utility, such as boon steal, life steal, blind, or teleport.

Edit: If I were to change dancing dagger, I guess I would make it a flip over skill as lots of people have suggested. Throw the dagger for 1-2 initiative, and it bounces to each target. Something cool that I think could be added is to have each target marked, and then the next skill is a similar skill to unrelenting assault, but faster and less damage. You would go and slice each target marked once for about 4k. I think it would add a really unique factor to thief and D/D, and it would still be in theme with the name “Dancing Dagger” and thief.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

You can’t really claim a build to be yours. Sooner or later someone else will come up with the same build given the limited diversity the Thief have. If you really like the build that much, then make it your signature. No one will edit it then.

EDIT: Curious, what build did you post?

Agreed. It just seems like he’s upset because they didn’t accept his build on metabattle, so QQ “hunts” them down. (Their method of hunting is basically just get the largest group of zerk thieves they can and gank a single target, then jump/laugh on bodies.)

One time I swapped to ele and forgot to put on cleric ele. I was on fresh air. The other team had a bunker ele.

We then proceeded to destroy the other team lol.

So it’s not 100% reliant on an ele, and ele isn’t always useless without bunker. A guy on my PvP team ran s/f ele with us in diamond to legendary with pretty good success. Bunker ele is a great tool to have, though.

Lightsbane.9012:

alchemyst.2165:

Any word on when this is coming out? Really want it for my thief, is a baller set,

it’s been out for weeks.
triumphant hero’s armor is not, however.

I did say Hero’s armor in the title.

And yeah, I really want the chest and boots, maybe mask. I have the regular versions of the chest and boots currently, but the Hero version would look even better on my character.

Any word on when this is coming out? Really want it for my thief, is a baller set,

They need to include actual, GOOD PvP rewards for those in legendary or prestiged. There’s not much you get other than trans charges and gold, which is nice, but it gets old and there’s really nothing of value.

I think there should be titles, weapon skins, and maybe armor skins. Would give a bit more incentive to play and actually try to work for it. When I look at the league vendor I’m appalled at the fact that all there is is llamas and stuff for wings. Vial of Salt was a step in the right direction, it was funny and cool for PvPers. Bigger things should be added. It should be catered toward people who are in the high level of pvp, from legendary division to ESL players. (Ideas: aura infusions (which need to be allowed in pvp), ascended weapons with cool skins, cool ascended armor skins, titles, backpieces (capes please) and more.)

The GCL rewards should also be increased (literally just potions and gold….really?) Again, there’s not much reward there. There needs to be more incentive to play and work for something.

I also think Skyhammer should be added, as it’s actually a really decent map after the changes, and would just freshen things up a bit.

It’s in a good place now imo.

Cynz.9437:

@alchemyst.2165: Sind said it himself that he plays thief for fun since they were just playing out leagues and didn’t care about outcome anymore. If he was playing serious he wouldn’t be on thief.

I find it hilarious how people accuse Grim of being salty thief when he actually brings view from other classes. I have played with him and against him, many times, he is a good players and trashtalking him because he has different opinion is kind of silly.

Yes, thief is great roamer, yes thief can help in small fights however in 99% of the time you still should avoid 1v1 and big fights as thief. I would be ok with thief having that role, problem is whole argument of thief sacrificing everything for mobility and supposedly high dmg kind of died when revs were introduced into game – they can do exact same job, just as good with extra huge cherry on top (aka team fights, great 1v1 capability). Then once again, we have druids with 15 sec RTL which allows them effectively camp mid and far at the same time as well as mes port. GL decapping anything there, while having druid pet chomping 5-7k off you every few sec no matter where you go.

Agemnon.4608: vallun won vs engi that didn’t use hammer whole fight….

Other people still play thief in pro league. Just because one person doesn’t run it doesn’t mean it’s not viable.

Yes, thief’s role is to decap and roam. That doesn’t mean 1v1s and teamfights aren’t possible, especially if you tweak your build for it. The thing is, you can’t have everything at once at a high functionality. You have to sacrifice. Yet people like the OP want everything at once.

And no, rev can’t do the same job thief can. Its mobility was nerfed, a thief is still much faster than a rev.

Edit: @Dominik.9721: You said that someone decent shouldn’t talk about thief but then when someone lists potential reasons why they’re decent you decide to forget it. And I actually have played in ESL before, a while back. Thanks for the assumptions.