Guild Wars 2

1. Give CS better traits. And not just “heres some fury”, I mean actual traits with substance to them. Just having fury and some extra damage doesn’t do much. Invigorating Precision is on the right track.

2. Make at least half of Bountiful Theft’s boonsteal go baseline; fits thematically and is needed- Allow it to steal at least half stacks and half duration shared with allies. Atm it doesn’t really help much, and this way it would allow a thief to pick out a target and turn their own buffs against them, which fits with what a thief does and again, is needed

3. Cloak and dagger blind, reduce initiative by 1, just make the reward worth the risk because atm it’s not worth it. (Maybe even increasing the stealth duration)

4. Death blossom damage please.

5. Improve/rework Pistol mainhand. Most likely reworking #2 and buffing #1’s damage,

6. Give Larcenous Strike an extra boon steal.

7. Revealed Training applies resistance.

8. Make Dagger Mastery from poison into this (I just think its a really cool idea) Gain 7% damage if you wield a mainhand dagger, and 10% damage if you wield an offhand dagger. So if you were d/p, you get 7%. If you are D/D, you get 17%. If you are S/D, you get 10%. Fits thematically with daggers and rewards you for playing the riskier style.

Edit: Forgot make preparedness baseline.

In PvP take trickery. It’s not just preparedness you’re losing, it’s a bunch of utility and support that’s useful for your team.

In PvE you don’t have to.

Azukas.1426:

alchemyst.2165:

Azukas.1426:

alchemyst.2165:

Azukas.1426:

alchemyst.2165:

Azukas.1426:

alchemyst.2165:

CutesySylveon.8290:

Thief is a selfish class, so saying they’re selfish running staff over SB isn’t saying much. And not everyone wants to decap all match and wants something with more offensive potential, so they may choose staff. If they’re not on the ground and are contributing, then who are you to say that they would do better with SB or not? They may be able to get a crucial down because they had the better damage from staff, etc. If if works, it works, and I would rather not force SB any more than some people would d/p.

^ this.

Even without SB a thief still has a few unique assets (however few they may be) that a very good thief can exploit, such as steal and mobility. Vault still allows for decent mobility. D/P allows for single target pressure and chase, picking off easy targets or stragglers. The way it plays can allow for a valuable asset, granted the thief is good enough. Then you have impact strike, which combo’d with acro and staff can actually make you a formidable teamfighter (cant count how many times my team has won mid by me having acro proc and using impact strike, whether that be just on the single downed or interrupting two rezzers then stomping the downed).

I’m confused did you mean you are playing with Acrobatics? And if so what proc in Acrobatics turns the tide in a XvX fight at mid? I’m not a thief so I’m very confused if you are meaning something else because the only thing I can think of is Instant Reflexes.

Thanks

Yes, Instant Reflexes. Getting the evade stomp can really sway a team fight.

As for a thief being auto 4v5, I would say that’s a bit harsh. Maybe a bad thief. The difference with thief to other classes is that a bad player on another class, like rev, can still carry teamfights. Thief has to be really good to get results, but when you do very well on thief, it’s really outstanding to see.

Thief isn’t in the best spot right now, but it’s doable. You just have to get good thieves on your team, but sadly most aren’t. If you can, find a thief in a good pvp guild. The rest of the decent thieves are all dueling heroes and don’t usually queue, so that’s why it’s hard to find good thieves in Q’s.

Uhh so what do you use for condi clear……b/c 2 secs of evasion every 40 secs isn’t that great

I use Escapist’s Absolution?

Master trait in Daredevil, clear 1 condi on evade (1 second ICD)

I agree its a nice condi clear, but any smart player already knows to not attack a thief when overloaded with condis. You just let em tick to death.

Look to me you’re trying to do something on a thief that is honestly a waste of everyone’s time involved. Your not controlling the map, your not able to reliably +1, and in a team fight if they focus you you die too fast. Im not sitting here saying you are a bad player…I’m just saying your decision isn’t a good one.

Either it’s your $60 to play how you want; I just think you need to realize the other players on your team paid $60 as well.

To me it just seems like you haven’t had a lot of good thieves on your map and aren’t very educated on thief, and I do not mean that offensively.

I do get what you’re saying though. At first glance staff over shortbow seems like a crazy idea; but when I first put it on I started winning a lot more fights and a lot more games. Just because my playstyle complemented it. I’m making a montage of D/P staff and I have some PvP clips. It is an very powerful tool for thieves in the right hands.

Yes, using a different class(or shortbow) is easier. Is it more fun? Not for a lot of thieves. Can thief be done? Absolutely.

And about the condi clear part, that’s why I don’t get hit in the first place, or use generosity sigil/shadowstep if I really need the burst clear. Plus, I usually run signet of agility.

I’ve played with lots of great thieves. This is,what I base my stance on. Just the other day on forest a thief literally won the game. He/She were so darn good I was flabbergasted at what they accomplished. Every single time a point was left open it was decapped. It was a dream because my team had a REALLY bad comp and couldn’t win team fights at all. We got wrecked. That thief though made them thin out so all team fights we had a number advantage. That one was your standard DP.

Now I have played with great staff thieves too who like the above thief were able to control the map. I’ve played with the condi thieves who did the same as well.

It doesn’t matter what weapon you use as long as you keep the mobility to control the map. DP Staff gives that up.

Plenty of teams run without a thief. Therefore, plenty of teams run without the mobility of a shortbow and they still do fine. DP Staff sacrifices some vertical mobility for damage, defense, teamfight ability, and 1v1 ability. (Note that staff actually has the same net distance as shortbow, 1800 units with vault using 15 initiative, 1800 units with shortbow using 12, and by the time that initiative regenerates for another arrow, a staff thief can regenerate it as well, so it’s basically the same distance.) The thing that’s really lost is vertical mobility, which can be worked around on certain maps (jumping on the huts with vault to get to mid faster on khylo).

You may argue that other classes do it better, and while it’s certainly easier, a DP staff thief, when played well, still retains good decap/roaming ability but gains teamfight effectiveness and 1v1 effectiveness. Running DP staff, I can kill classes that I would just run away from after a few hits if I was using shortbow. On DP Staff, Dragonhunters, Revenants, Ele’s, and other classes I usually would have trouble against are all able to be killed by me, granted they’re not running bunker. So you actually gain the ability to peel off from a teamfight, kill the guy sitting on far (or just cap it if there’s nobody there), come back, and continue teamfighting.

I’m not trying to say that DP Staff is better than shortbow, because I think they’re equal, but complement different comps and playstyles better.

Azukas.1426:

alchemyst.2165:

Azukas.1426:

alchemyst.2165:

Azukas.1426:

alchemyst.2165:

CutesySylveon.8290:

Thief is a selfish class, so saying they’re selfish running staff over SB isn’t saying much. And not everyone wants to decap all match and wants something with more offensive potential, so they may choose staff. If they’re not on the ground and are contributing, then who are you to say that they would do better with SB or not? They may be able to get a crucial down because they had the better damage from staff, etc. If if works, it works, and I would rather not force SB any more than some people would d/p.

^ this.

Even without SB a thief still has a few unique assets (however few they may be) that a very good thief can exploit, such as steal and mobility. Vault still allows for decent mobility. D/P allows for single target pressure and chase, picking off easy targets or stragglers. The way it plays can allow for a valuable asset, granted the thief is good enough. Then you have impact strike, which combo’d with acro and staff can actually make you a formidable teamfighter (cant count how many times my team has won mid by me having acro proc and using impact strike, whether that be just on the single downed or interrupting two rezzers then stomping the downed).

I’m confused did you mean you are playing with Acrobatics? And if so what proc in Acrobatics turns the tide in a XvX fight at mid? I’m not a thief so I’m very confused if you are meaning something else because the only thing I can think of is Instant Reflexes.

Thanks

Yes, Instant Reflexes. Getting the evade stomp can really sway a team fight.

As for a thief being auto 4v5, I would say that’s a bit harsh. Maybe a bad thief. The difference with thief to other classes is that a bad player on another class, like rev, can still carry teamfights. Thief has to be really good to get results, but when you do very well on thief, it’s really outstanding to see.

Thief isn’t in the best spot right now, but it’s doable. You just have to get good thieves on your team, but sadly most aren’t. If you can, find a thief in a good pvp guild. The rest of the decent thieves are all dueling heroes and don’t usually queue, so that’s why it’s hard to find good thieves in Q’s.

Uhh so what do you use for condi clear……b/c 2 secs of evasion every 40 secs isn’t that great

I use Escapist’s Absolution?

Master trait in Daredevil, clear 1 condi on evade (1 second ICD)

I agree its a nice condi clear, but any smart player already knows to not attack a thief when overloaded with condis. You just let em tick to death.

Look to me you’re trying to do something on a thief that is honestly a waste of everyone’s time involved. Your not controlling the map, your not able to reliably +1, and in a team fight if they focus you you die too fast. Im not sitting here saying you are a bad player…I’m just saying your decision isn’t a good one.

Either it’s your $60 to play how you want; I just think you need to realize the other players on your team paid $60 as well.

To me it just seems like you haven’t had a lot of good thieves on your map and aren’t very educated on thief, and I do not mean that offensively.

I do get what you’re saying though. At first glance staff over shortbow seems like a crazy idea; but when I first put it on I started winning a lot more fights and a lot more games. Just because my playstyle complemented it. I’m making a montage of D/P staff and I have some PvP clips. It is an very powerful tool for thieves in the right hands.

Yes, using a different class(or shortbow) is easier. Is it more fun? Not for a lot of thieves. Can thief be done? Absolutely.

And about the condi clear part, that’s why I don’t get hit in the first place, or use generosity sigil/shadowstep if I really need the burst clear. Plus, I usually run signet of agility.

Azukas.1426:

alchemyst.2165:

Azukas.1426:

alchemyst.2165:

CutesySylveon.8290:

Thief is a selfish class, so saying they’re selfish running staff over SB isn’t saying much. And not everyone wants to decap all match and wants something with more offensive potential, so they may choose staff. If they’re not on the ground and are contributing, then who are you to say that they would do better with SB or not? They may be able to get a crucial down because they had the better damage from staff, etc. If if works, it works, and I would rather not force SB any more than some people would d/p.

^ this.

Even without SB a thief still has a few unique assets (however few they may be) that a very good thief can exploit, such as steal and mobility. Vault still allows for decent mobility. D/P allows for single target pressure and chase, picking off easy targets or stragglers. The way it plays can allow for a valuable asset, granted the thief is good enough. Then you have impact strike, which combo’d with acro and staff can actually make you a formidable teamfighter (cant count how many times my team has won mid by me having acro proc and using impact strike, whether that be just on the single downed or interrupting two rezzers then stomping the downed).

I’m confused did you mean you are playing with Acrobatics? And if so what proc in Acrobatics turns the tide in a XvX fight at mid? I’m not a thief so I’m very confused if you are meaning something else because the only thing I can think of is Instant Reflexes.

Thanks

Yes, Instant Reflexes. Getting the evade stomp can really sway a team fight.

As for a thief being auto 4v5, I would say that’s a bit harsh. Maybe a bad thief. The difference with thief to other classes is that a bad player on another class, like rev, can still carry teamfights. Thief has to be really good to get results, but when you do very well on thief, it’s really outstanding to see.

Thief isn’t in the best spot right now, but it’s doable. You just have to get good thieves on your team, but sadly most aren’t. If you can, find a thief in a good pvp guild. The rest of the decent thieves are all dueling heroes and don’t usually queue, so that’s why it’s hard to find good thieves in Q’s.

Uhh so what do you use for condi clear……b/c 2 secs of evasion every 40 secs isn’t that great

I use Escapist’s Absolution?

Master trait in Daredevil, clear 1 condi on evade (1 second ICD)

Azukas.1426:

alchemyst.2165:

CutesySylveon.8290:

Thief is a selfish class, so saying they’re selfish running staff over SB isn’t saying much. And not everyone wants to decap all match and wants something with more offensive potential, so they may choose staff. If they’re not on the ground and are contributing, then who are you to say that they would do better with SB or not? They may be able to get a crucial down because they had the better damage from staff, etc. If if works, it works, and I would rather not force SB any more than some people would d/p.

^ this.

Even without SB a thief still has a few unique assets (however few they may be) that a very good thief can exploit, such as steal and mobility. Vault still allows for decent mobility. D/P allows for single target pressure and chase, picking off easy targets or stragglers. The way it plays can allow for a valuable asset, granted the thief is good enough. Then you have impact strike, which combo’d with acro and staff can actually make you a formidable teamfighter (cant count how many times my team has won mid by me having acro proc and using impact strike, whether that be just on the single downed or interrupting two rezzers then stomping the downed).

I’m confused did you mean you are playing with Acrobatics? And if so what proc in Acrobatics turns the tide in a XvX fight at mid? I’m not a thief so I’m very confused if you are meaning something else because the only thing I can think of is Instant Reflexes.

Thanks

Yes, Instant Reflexes. Getting the evade stomp can really sway a team fight.

As for a thief being auto 4v5, I would say that’s a bit harsh. Maybe a bad thief. The difference with thief to other classes is that a bad player on another class, like rev, can still carry teamfights. Thief has to be really good to get results, but when you do very well on thief, it’s really outstanding to see.

Thief isn’t in the best spot right now, but it’s doable. You just have to get good thieves on your team, but sadly most aren’t. If you can, find a thief in a good pvp guild. The rest of the decent thieves are all dueling heroes and don’t usually queue, so that’s why it’s hard to find good thieves in Q’s.

CutesySylveon.8290:

Thief is a selfish class, so saying they’re selfish running staff over SB isn’t saying much. And not everyone wants to decap all match and wants something with more offensive potential, so they may choose staff. If they’re not on the ground and are contributing, then who are you to say that they would do better with SB or not? They may be able to get a crucial down because they had the better damage from staff, etc. If if works, it works, and I would rather not force SB any more than some people would d/p.

^ this.

Even without SB a thief still has a few unique assets (however few they may be) that a very good thief can exploit, such as steal and mobility. Vault still allows for decent mobility. D/P allows for single target pressure and chase, picking off easy targets or stragglers. The way it plays can allow for a valuable asset, granted the thief is good enough. Then you have impact strike, which combo’d with acro and staff can actually make you a formidable teamfighter (cant count how many times my team has won mid by me having acro proc and using impact strike, whether that be just on the single downed or interrupting two rezzers then stomping the downed).

I started using this in ranked since HoT came out, and I’ve seen more and more of ‘em. It’s more for if you play like a bruiser/teamfighter, and are a good 1v1er inherently. It basically boosts your fighting skills, and you’re less of a decapper, more of a killer. At least, that’s why I run it- it boosts my inherent skills as a thief.

So if your playstyle fits running staff over shortbow, try it out. If you’re more of a conventional thief playstyle, run shortbow.

Don’t slap them. At least if they’re good at it. I’ve actually had the most success running D/P Staff. I have some clips of it if you want to see it in action.

I just think that to bring thief back, the rewards need to be higher for the risk along with improving less-used abilities and weapons. Also, making bountiful theft steal at least half boon stacks and half duration would do a lot for teams. Rev also can do eeverything a thief can and more, so nerfing rev a bit will also help.

Haha thanks!

I wish I would have gotten the part where chat blew up about it afterwards. It was really funny.

Thanks Min

/15chars

Enough said.

Edit: had to rename title because apparently “kung F-U-” is profanity

If you’re planning on Pvping with it, at least in ranked, not a good idea.

D/D is doable in WvW but pretty hard. Run a mix of marauder and anything with toughness, like soldier. Aim for as much power as you can get while keeping around 2.3 to 2.4k armor. At that point you shouldn’t really have to worry about HP because you’ll have gear that gives HP. Run daredevil rune (or pack, but daredevil gives nice stats and crit on dodge)

Run trickery and daredevil, those are mandatory. Depending on what you want you can run SA, DA, or Critical Strikes as your third slot. You can also run Acro, but I don’t think that’;s what you’re going for.

Good luck and happy hunting!

That’s actually…not a bad idea.

It would need a bit of a rework but the concept is really cool.

I would say if there is not a target within 1200 range you mark them, and at the mark your stats get reduced at intervals.

at 100% hp: No stat loss

75% hp: 7% stat loss

50% hp: 15% stat loss

25%: 33% stat loss

Just my suggestion, but I do like the idea.

Yes.

CnD costs 6 initiative with short range, telegraphed animation, short stealth, and mediocre damage.

Black Powder and HS costs at least 9 initiative for 3 seconds, although with Daredevil the expense for D/P to stealth is less costly, so I’d say it balances out for daredevils, at least. But that’s a different problem for base thieves.

Blinding Powder is a 40 second cooldown 3 second AoE stealth…40 seconds is way too high for that imho. Bring it down to 30, or hell even 20. It’s literally just a twitch stealth.

HiS needs a cooldown reduced and torment cleanse.

Basically all of thief stealth is way too expensive. For CnD, it needs to be less risky/costly or the payoff needs to be higher, or a combination of both for a happy medium. For black powder HS, I honestly don’t know. A buff to the combo would be even more powerful for daredevils, because they already have extra access, so not sure what to suggest about that.

Anet, take a hint. No thieves (or warriors, but I’m sure theres a thread in warrior section about this) except 1 in pro league, and from what I saw it looks like he got shut down. Rev does everything a thief can and more. Thief is no longer the best viable option for spike damage, and the roaming skills are being rivaled by rev, even.

It’s not op in the sense that it can beat everything 1v1. It’s op because it can do basically everything at once. Team fight, support, damage, 1v1, mobility, decent sustain, all at once.

It’s good, specially if you run bound. Quick immob cure and evade, not bad damage actually, aoe, cripple. It’s literally a buffed version of shortbow 3, only difference being that the damage is close range, but the damage isn’t really what it’s used for.

Even with aftercast I’m still getting around 1.9 seconds, 2 seconds max, starting at button press to weapons reappearing.. (I’m using your stopwatch) So don’t really know what to tell ya.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

That aftercast time is actually quite substantial. It is nearly equal in length to the animation going inward for the palm strike. You stopped your clock when palm strike did damage, but this isn’t the entire time of the animation. You should’ve stopped the clock after you gained the ability to begin a second attack, which is about the time the incinerators appear in your hands again.

You also started your clock not when you pressed the key, but when the animation after pressing the key begins. This delay exists and adds more time for the skill to take effect. Your video is easily off by 0.75 seconds because of this, and when I take a stop watch to your video I’m getting 2.4 seconds from button press to weapon retraction, easily.

EDIT: Just tried another experiment. Instead, I did a stopwatch time for the entire proper animation at 1/4ths speed. I’m getting times of 9.2 seconds. Divide it by four, and you get around 2.3 seconds animation time.

Actually, I wasn’t trying to weapon stow immediately after. I did it well after I could have done more attacks. The actual aftercast of palm strike is less than 1/2 a second if I’m guessing, but I’d have to test it to be sure. I’m pretty sure it’s less than CnD length, which is 1/2 second.

Also, I don’t know whether you’re using a stopwatch by hand or not, which throws off time.

The innate skill delay in the game is irrelevant. It’s not the actual animation time of it. Button press to animation start =/= the animation time. Animation start to animation finish is animation time. By that logic, every animation in the game is literally different because of everyone’s different ping, which is not the case. Animation time does not have to do with the button press to animation start delay.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Lesson of the day: the tooltips for the activation times for skills in this game are lies. All of them.

The total animation time includes 3 components, only one of which is actually listed.

#1: The activation time
#2: The animation time
#3: The aftercast delay

Put these together, and you get the total animation time. For this particular post, I sat down with a stop watch and timed First Flurry + Palm strike again and again, 20+ times. And each time, the total animation time came back as 2.5 seconds (average. Sometimes it was 2.42 sometimes it was 2.61, etc).

https://youtu.be/Lme-42fmOa8

The slight aftercast of the palm strike isn’t relevant to how much damage it does. The total time for full damage is ~3.55 seconds, without the pulm proc the full damage takes ~1.55 sec. There’s a very slight delay if you want to use skills immediately after palm strike, but it’s not very relevant.

Edit: after watching the footage I found a peculiar bug where pulm proc didn’t do damage. Anet??

Fist flurry is 1 second cast, palm strike is 1/2 second… The whole animation takes 1.5 seconds, not 2.5.

This is definitely not recommended for everyone, but the most success I’ve had on daredevil is running d/p staff. This is nice if you play more defensively/bruiser, looking for fights. You get more combat presence at the sacrifice of vertical mobility, although staff can work around some of this.

You run either DA/TR/DD or Acro/TR/DD with mara amulet. Either one is fine. Shadowstep, bandits defense, signet of agility or impairing daggers, and impact strike. Heal is up to you.

Again, not recommended for everybody, as shortbow is a very good tool, but just sharing what I’ve had the most success with.

What the kitten is this

I actually watched the video, I still stand by what I said. All you’ve been saying is “lol broken xDDDD ???? op” but you still don’t realize you’re a squishy thief with no armor which is what pulm trait is good at breaking down; squishy targets. Ever tried Paladin amulet?

Again, quit complaining about easy to counter headshot spam.

You could have made it even more op by interrupting his heal. :P

Yeah, the trait does a lot of damage. Does it mean it’s broken? No. It’s great against classes with no CC. You sacrifice very important condi removal, however. Just fight a condi ele or necro, or a class with lots of stab like a Rev, and see what happens.

I know you hate being 1 shot by a glass cannon interrupt build, but it’s time to move on.

Either one is fine. If you’re D/P I would recommend bound.

You could just wait out the headshot spam…

I honestly think the problem is rev.

Rev has similar mobility to thief and more, which is part of why it gets overshadowed imo. The thing is, thief isn’t really in that bad of a spot right now. Yes, some things need reworked, non viable things need to become viable, etc. but a good thief can really make things work and have presence in a game.

I think this should be done:

1. Somehow make rev less of thief 2.0, specialize it more in its own way as to make it still a good class but have more of a specialized role. I don’t like suggesting other classes be changed on our forum but since that is part of the problem I’m doing it.

2. Give thief better boon stealing and sharing properties. Just a little. Bountiful theft should steal full boon quantities, or at least half. Having a few seconds of one stack isn’t that impactful. I think, to also increase build diversity, steal by default should steal 1 boon. This could be balanced by having bountiful theft steal 1 boon and then whenever you steal a boon share it with allies. Something like that, lmk what you think about it.

I think simply decreasing the initiative cost of dancing dagger to 2 would actually be pretty helpful. It could also become a rollover skill where on successful hit, gain a teleport that costs X initiative (4?) with 900 range and deals the same or more damage as shadow shot. This would help emphasize D/D’s burst style gameplay and make it more of the "assassin’ type weapon set that the thief D/D set should be.

Reducing cloak and dagger initiative to 5 and adding a blind would also help, the risk needs reduced and the reward needs increased, but as you said that’s a different topic.

As for staff, I don’t think it really needs anything else. I wouldn’t mind having Dust strike become a higher range but other than that I think it would make more sense for it to stay as a more “in your face” set. The design they were going for with staff is a melee semi-bruiser, and I think staff already fits that fairly well.

Nah. Would be much too op and be nerf bait instantly. Dealing 3-4k damage, 7-8k with a double proc, while in stealth and not being revealed is a bit much. If this is a problem for you, either keep track of your pulm procs better or try and practice getting your stealth attacks off quicker.

I always try and wait for their dodge while in stealth, THEN start my stealstab right after it’s done. Waiting a second or two really makes a huge difference.

Just play around with timing.

I’m still having a bit of trouble with these and stunlock zerkers with mace. I tend to use similar tactics with both so I guess it could apply here.

I run at least 2 stunbreaks at all times (shadow step and Bandits defense) sometimes 3, that being roll for initiative. I try to keep pressure on them when they’re not in zerker stance. Once they go for a headbutt I usually use a bandit’s defense and block for the whole thing, then kick if they don’t have stab or I have steal so I can rip. I keep some pressure, trying to get a small burst off during the knockdown window then kite around for the duration of their zerker stance. Basically rinse and repeat. The key is keeping sustained damage on them while staying fairly alert.

Hope that helps.

Orion.3812:

alchemyst.2165:

Orion.3812:

Jana.6831:

This is just getting really stupid: After June no thief has been able to 1 vs 1 any class and everybody knew. That’s why thieves who wanted to play pvp were reported and/or their team mates refused to play because they had a thief on their team – and you say an 1k damage increase is “over the top and unneccessary”?

I have been infracted for asking someone if he was trolling (that was a genuine question) so I’m not asking it again.

I recognize that thief was and is still at an unfair disadvantage against specific builds. I simply disagree that buffing autoattack is the answer to help them in any game mode. For the record, it was intended to help them in PvE. I say again that any damage buff short of 50% will not make up for the lack of 10% group damage buff (or 5% raid buff), and 50% increased damage is obviously out of the question.

In PvP, it’s not a Thief problem. It’s a Chronomancer problem. It’s a Scrapper problem. It’s a Dragonhunter problem, etc. Buffing thief damage isn’t the answer. Balancing the new specs is.

You still ignored my counterargument. And if thief isn’t the problem and balancing the new specs is then why are you here on the thief forum?

Thief being at a disadvantage is not a problem with thief being individually weak. Thief doing too much damage in PvP/WvW is a current problem since patch. Don’t twist my words.

Your counter argument was to claim that a class with a completely different design has a higher DPS dagger auto. First, DPS and total damage are two different things and thief dagger auto speed was noticeably changed even though I don’t recall seeing it in patch notes. I can get two full chains off before leaping through a black powder now. Second, if we skip fact-checking your claim and assume that it is true, you’re looking at thief autoattack vs necro autoattack in a vacuum. If Necro has less damage potential outside of autoattack, then they need to have a higher autoattack DPS to remain comparable to thief in total DPS.

Except for the fact that necros can get just as much, if not more non-AA damage than thieves. You’re forgetting they have reaper’s shroud and death shroud.

The DPS of thieves obviously needed some work done to it. Why do you think nobody picks thieves for PvE, and, up until recently, PvP? Right now that’s a strong point for thief that is weak compared to other classes. What is strong for a thief is nothing for another class. A simple AA tweak does a slight amount to help our DPS, due to the fact that we’re not always AA’ing.

I still don’t see why you think a simple AA buff is enough to push things over the edge, but you seem to be one of those people who dies to a thief in WvW and comes to the forum and complains based on my observations. Even if you claim to play a thief, you should know that the AA buff is nowhere near OP. You’re literally calling OP on a kittening autoattack, lol. It’s quite ridiculous. There seems to be no further point in arguing with you so I’m gonna go ahead and chew my popcorn and watch this play out.

Orion.3812:

Jana.6831:

This is just getting really stupid: After June no thief has been able to 1 vs 1 any class and everybody knew. That’s why thieves who wanted to play pvp were reported and/or their team mates refused to play because they had a thief on their team – and you say an 1k damage increase is “over the top and unneccessary”?

I have been infracted for asking someone if he was trolling (that was a genuine question) so I’m not asking it again.

I recognize that thief was and is still at an unfair disadvantage against specific builds. I simply disagree that buffing autoattack is the answer to help them in any game mode. For the record, it was intended to help them in PvE. I say again that any damage buff short of 50% will not make up for the lack of 10% group damage buff (or 5% raid buff), and 50% increased damage is obviously out of the question.

In PvP, it’s not a Thief problem. It’s a Chronomancer problem. It’s a Scrapper problem. It’s a Dragonhunter problem, etc. Buffing thief damage isn’t the answer. Balancing the new specs is.

You still ignored my counterargument. And if thief isn’t the problem and balancing the new specs is then why are you here on the thief forum?

Orion.3812:

alchemyst.2165:

This may be the funniest thread I’ve seen in a while. The thief nerf threads are back, guys, just like we knew it would happen because some autoattacks got buffed lol.

Seriously, theres not a problem with a thief having some sustained damage to use when they’re out of initiative. Again, there are higher AA’s on other classes, go complain on their forums.

Show us the OP autoattacks of other professions, please.

Keep in mind that when you’re deciding which ones are OP, that other classes do not have backstab burst damage which counts toward total DPS. Thief auto should be the weakest auto in the game to allow for thief burst to be the highest in the game. That is balance.

I already stated how necro dagger AA was already higher than thief’s. Yet you ignored it of course.

And backstab burst? Other classes do not have backstab burst?

Lol you’re right. Other classes have more and better burst options than a short range, mediocre burst attack that requires stealth and can be prevented by literally pressing a button or kiting away.

This may be the funniest thread I’ve seen in a while. The thief nerf threads are back, guys, just like we knew it would happen because some autoattacks got buffed lol.

Seriously, theres not a problem with a thief having some sustained damage to use when they’re out of initiative. Again, there are higher AA’s on other classes, go complain on their forums.

@OP, shouldn’t you be complaining to the necro forum considering they have an AA that is equal to, if not higher, than thief AA?

Orion.3812:

I’m going to go ahead and bump this thread to draw attention to how exceptionally toxic our community is these days. Everything is an “L2P” issue. Hardly anyone wants to address the problem. Most would rather insult the skill of anyone who seems to think their class is unbalanced without any attempt to consider the argument.

Just because you are not good enough to play a glass thief that can one-shot people and stay alive doesn’t mean the class is balanced.

Thanks, to those of you who actually gave halfway intelligent replies regardless of which side of the argument you took.

Lol, it’s just funny how people are now crying op because of a simple autoattack damage buff that people don’t even use much because they’re too busy being squishy and trying to evade or stealth.

Just because you are not good enough to have a brain and literally poke a glass thief and stay alive doesn’t mean the class is unbalanced.

Thanks, to those of you who actually give halfway intelligent replies.

I ran this in PvP one time, was very funny :P

Good video!

Aidal.4901:

Right now as someone in the wvw forums said, the meta is Pirate shipping, lighter classes, ranged attacks, Aoe spam, literally what the thief is excellent at countering.

Also any 2v1 scenario is going to be death if it’s against half skilled thieves.

First of all, dd you say thief is excellent at countering aoe spam and ranged attacks? No, that’s not how it works. Those are thief’s counters.

As for a 2v1 scenario, you do realize that’s a 2v1 problem, not a class issue? You’re not usually supposed to win 2v1’s…

So now that patch has hit, what do you guys think of the new acro?

I’m liking it in duels combined with daredevil and trickery. Decent passive, although maybe it could be reduced to 30s. Liking the new upper hand buff too, nice initiative regen. But do you guys think it’s enough? Personally I would have liked to see Guarded Initiation become gain Resistance on steal.

Discuss.

collects Mesmer tears to create another vial of salt

chews popcorn and watches as mesmers cry op because 1 (underpowered) skill became unblockable

That’s awesome.

Is there any way Karl could confirm the damage increase?

A really good tip as a daredevil with EA is to vault/dodge through their purging flames. Very easy condi clear.

elez.4617:

Bound is jump skill also but you can use steal with it ,so yeah it’s a bug and it need to be fixed.

Bound is not a jump skill. It’s the animation. It doesn’t literally put your character in the air.

@alchemyst Heartseeker is also a jump and you can steal with it.

Again, heartseeker’s animation just looks like a jump but it’s just the animation. Try leaping across a gap with it. Same with bound.

It’s not a glitch. You can’t use teleports (Or any instant skills) during a jump skill.

Vault is a jump.

They should make the radius 180 and make it an actual trick lmao

Ive only been flamed a couple times, one of them was in a match where we were facing a bunker comp, and I had 1v1’d their bunker ele on mid and nearly killed them, but they chased me down 2v1.

It was funny when they said we lost because we have a thief when I 1v1d every player on their team.