Has this patch improved/declined the pvp experience for you?
Also as a note of interest, post your rank/experiences pre-patch
Nope, just nope. Legendary as an ultimate goal of this game should only be given to those who play all game modes for least for some time.
How much tpvp did anyone have to play pre patch to get a Legendary?
Well, this is what needs to be implemented, some kind of “Gift of Decapping” with requirement of ~20 rank. Not the opposite way.
Ok lets delete everyone’s legendary and introduce this, that’s fair
Atm yes but the influx of new people has just turned it into a vision worse than hell, even hotjoin never used to be as zergy as solo que is now. Playing with a full team of 5 helps the situation.
It’s hard to comment on anything else like balance atm because every game is so terrible that you barely get to see the effects of the changes to balance
I think calling out people like this from outside the thread is uncalled for and quite frankly insulting.
I have zero sympathy based on how people tried to act in that thread tbh, uncalled for/insulting – you might want to direct that somewhere else. That and the fact that it’s directly related to the topic, this topic just isn’t circlejerking the idea of TDM, it’s actually looking at it critically.
Have you thought about your view critically? For example you are promoting fight resetting if TDM was respawn based, have you thought about what would happen to a team getting a small early lead and then evading combat with stealth/running until the timer dies and they win?
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Nope, just nope. Legendary as an ultimate goal of this game should only be given to those who play all game modes for least for some time.
How much tpvp did anyone have to play pre patch to get a Legendary?
I absolutely agree, if it was accidental then fair enough
TDM will certainly magnify balance issues because there is no secondary goal to ease the pressure of combat and conquest also acts as a direct counter to spamming stealth which would be an even more prevalent way of fight resetting. There is however a lot of short sightedness on the issue;
-Stealth has never been an issue
ive not seen one 5v5 yet that occurs where people try cheesy 1 sided tactics.
That’s people responding to how they don’t believe fight resetting would be an issue. TDM will be far easier to cheese than conquest, it depends largely on how harsh Anet would be willing to be with skill restrictions.
I love my axe necro, it’s quite a sado-masichistic relationship
I decided to try that whole ‘mentor role’ BS, needless to say even if you talk about which points to go for/not to leave points open etc, it still happens, people very rarely respond.
Do the devs think it would be acceptable for me to force myself into a high level fractal group where people can’t remove me and deliberately ignore the tactics and kitten up the dungeon? Because that’s what’s happening in pvp since the patch.
I know the old que wasn’t great but fml I’d have it back right now, pvp is a headache
This post is just… Wut? lol No interrupt mesmer is one of the highest skill cap builds in the game hands down….
I agree, and tbh it’s still one of the lowest ‘reward’
I love hammer/mace too, it feels very paladin-y but my advice would honestly consider different weaponsets because the traits available right now don’t support hammer + mace, at least not together.
Consider these points;
-To be a guardian in pvp you must trait either altruistic healing or monk’s focus, that’s just absolutely mandatory
-For AH you need to maximize boon uptime and support, usually through shouts as utilities
-monk’s focus is obviously using meditations as utilities
The big problem with hammer/mace is that they don’t fit together, a hammer in an AH build would be better suited by a staff because it has terrible uptime especially when you’re using shouts – this cuts your boon application waayyy down because you are planting less symbols with the auto chain.
The hammer’s uptime is better using monk’s focus but then you’re left with mace which is again out of place in a meditation build because it’s very defensive and more suited for standing on a point soaking up damage.
I have tried hammer/mace meditations and hammer/mace AH and I’ve always ended up switching back to something else. Those leaked patch noted that showed the cripple application on symbols had me really excited because something like that would put hammer in a good spot where you could actually hit your target.
I did have good success using a hammer/GS meditations build though, lots of strong CC
Totally. “Can’t be done, nope, nope, nope, nope.” Your logic and reasoning skills astound me. Keep up the good work.
You were done a long time ago, you just kept peddling
Your view [despite clearly ignoring where you’re wrong] has been acknowledged and given the merit it deserves
You’re pro-denial of something a LOT of people want and what is more combats got competitive because the devs would actually have to use their brain for 15 minutes and might have to make a few balance changes, as if they don’t already.
You get a kitten grip.
I have nothing against TDM
I do play courtyard, I’ve played the 3v3 and 2v2 custom arenas while they were up and my guild does team que and 2v2 matches for fun
If you are happy to TDM, that’s great
Would you care to add anything else to the discussion or is this kinda it?
-Pvp is alive
-Matchmaking is dead for solo que
-PvP players were the least rewarded [if not hurt] by patch, PvE gained the most
-Balance is slightly better in some aspects, still needs to be much better in others, may have gotten worse in some cases
My 2cents
You’re not getting a grip
You’re totally right, after you hadn’t read a thing I posted and just went cray I did choose to ignore you, it was the logical choice.
But still even in your fixes, you haven’t thought those through, but choose to believe what you will.
EDIT It also gives strength to the argument about stat ranges being too high in pvp. With celestial, the stat ranges are not very high because any stat differences comes entirely from traits and from runes. And… it feels very nice! We can specialize into more power, or more condition, or more healing, all of them making a noticeable difference, but without falling into extreme situations. It’s so much more fun this way.
That actually makes me kind of jel. Almost all of the specs that work in the meta are totally trait locked.
I’ve gotta say that is one thing WoW absolutely nailed with their new trait system, you get to pick the traits you actually want and not just the ones that are obviously the best without putting yourself out of reach of another mandatory trait. Becomes very spreadsheet-y.
Why bother typing an elaborate response? You don’t bother reading it and just get shady for the sake of it, I’ve repeated myself to you enough times already, more than I would to the kids I teach
No I don’t think I’m wrong just not going to argue on forums. As I can’t think of a good spvp example. I use this do you really think jq could beat mag for example if they had the same numbers? JQ is ranked higher
I think ranks should always be looked at in context.
[going from the old rank system] Does being rank 63 put you at a huge advantage over a rank 62? No, there is likely little difference. Is it any guarantee of a win? No
Does being rank 63 put you at a huge advantage over a rank 20? Odds are that it certainly does. Is it any guarantee of a win? No, although there is likely a big difference between the two due to the massive gap in experience pvp is always a fluid experience where you’re only ever as good as your last game. You can be on top one minute, scraping the barrel the next, and that’s regardless of rank.
Does rank mean nothing? Absolutely not. Unless you literally abused skyhammer farm servers the entire way there, being rank 35-40+ you almost have to have absorbed information and experience that will put you at a significant advantage over someone with less experience. You’ll be familiar with their spec, you’ll be used to playing against it and you will likely have played against very skilled opponents playing that spec.
The other biggie is class and spec, hard counters do exist which isn’t cool but still tramples all over who plays better in a matchup.
I do play courtyard, I’ve played the 3v3 and 2v2 custom arenas while they were up and my guild does team que and 2v2 matches for fun
What issues are you having now?
Get a grip please
Actually that’s totally false, I’ve tried plenty of 2v2, they work fine with player moderation to stop cheese plays. Without player moderation it’s a guarantee that will happen without recourse
Are you perhaps afraid that if this Game mode gets into ranked that it somehow will affect Conquest? What could actually affect you negatively here?
What a fab question, lets look at it like this [again, I’m repeating myself but people do like to ignore what they don’t like]
TDM mixed with conquest would be the same situation as high end team matches without any of the major drawbacks. Spike is still super high, stealth is still super strong, basically any class who has no non-counterable defensive cooldown is the target because getting the first kill is pivotal and often spells success [necro becomes ideal target]. Teams usually start out in mass invisibility, call the target, curtain goes out and either moa or straight up insta-gib them with spike and heavy CC>stealthstomp – only countered by stealth res.
The big drawback to spamming stealth like that is that the team spiking the necro loses initial point advantage. That will be gone in TDM there would be nothing stopping stealth spam, nothing stopping people camping out in SR, nothing stopping people spamming fight resets. What would be the point in playing the spike ‘target’ classes like necro/ranger? Do you believe that is in any way balanced?
It happens now but ultimately they pay for the fight reset by losing conquest points, there’d be no downside in playing that junk. Without even trying I can already see ways around pierce’s ruleset to still make the same play with little risk.
And yes, I probably do come off passionate about it, but frankly people aren’t thinking through their ideas, have flimsy/idealistic evidence which is at best anecdotal and seem to not care that what they are suggesting would impact on our current pvp mode.
Make your own ruleset for your own que system and enjoy it, more power to you. I have absolutely no intention of playing a game mode which would be so easily abusable as TDM in ranked play, not with certain classes/abilities the way they are currently and there is so far no good reason given to show it would positively impact pvp to make it so.
Um.. Wait he’s worried it wouldn’t work because 2v2 / 3v3 doesn’t que well with 5v5 conquest? That’s what he means it won’t work? No kittening kitten… they become their own que…………..
What can I say, you can’t force people to read, its obvs asking too much
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No, actually ron, I’ll invite you one more time to go back and have a little read because I think it’ll come back to you in future.
It will never work in the same ranked system as Conquest, it wont. If you want ranked TDM you need to look at making a totally separate que system for TDM – I think this is the fourth time I’ve had to say it to you, so I really want you to absorb the information now.
If you are happy to TDM, that’s great, I suggest you take your own advice and ’don’t play what you don’t like’ but you need to actually think through your suggestion before you put weight behind it because plenty of people, myself included, don’t want anything to do with TDM coming into this meta.
ive given you reasons why SR isnt OP. You havent responded to them but just continued to say its broken.
No, you haven’t, you’ve given me your own little anecdotes about how you don’t think it’ll happen, and that people just don’t play cheese builds [right…]
If you want to give me reasons why SR wouldn’t be OP if it was forced into my rated que alongside conquest then tell me how you’d handle organized teams doing the following;
-Stacking more than one SR for assurance even if you did reveal one
-Stability stacking in SR
-S/p + shortbow stealth stacks to literally permastealth a team camping in SR
Saw some good interrupt mesmers. They still lost, but they provided a lot more challenge and support than mesmers have been able to lately.
I love the idea of an interrupt Mesmer but it does have severe issues;
-Warrior does it better and lasts longer
-The spec itself is a little disjointed, some traits need to move down in tiers to really make it work
-you lose out on massive damage from not traiting phantasms or shatter [again, warriors do insane damage at the same time as controlling a target]
-no dedicated CC weapon, lots of CC spread over all weaponsets [see warriors with hammer]
Mesmer has definitely lost effectiveness post-patch, which is a shame as they were one of my favourite classes to play as and against
Yes, I did, do you have a response?
Because it’s great that you believe you should be above rank 70 but love TDM. I don’t care, it doesn’t do anything to strengthen your argument, it’s just you shouting louder because you want it and don’t care what it would do to the current system [in the way you/OP have suggested]
These aren’t hard rules… They’re pretty standard, actually… Elite rebalance and stealth stacking nerf BOTH need to happen ANYWAYS… 3-4 “rules” on a gameplay that don’t affect anyone except people stalling isn’t going to be the end of the world, they’re standard Arena map rules.
People want it ranked because its more engaging and fun, and right now, it’s unrealistic to do this because it constantly has to be set up. What if I said to do 5v5 you had to constantly make a team and find another team to fight and Hotjoins and tournies went away…? Think this out, you’ll get your answers. It’s one of the most popular formats of PVP in mmos, it wouldn’t be hard for them to add, they don’t even need to make them a leaderboard yet, just make it so we can progress in reward tracks and que so fights are found for us, I’d be happy. And so would a LOT of others…
Then Ronald you should be happy, but you/OP need to think a fleshed out answer because asking for TDM in the same ranked system as our current conquest as OP has done is cancerous. OOC rules is still easy to cheese, most 3v3 etc games are player moderated with blurry rules to basically stop any team from cheesing the match in some way like stalling with bunkers/stealth. Your OOC suggestions are a start but consider how easily it’d be get ping someone to stay in combat and continue to camp in stealth. They would never put in automated rules harsh enough to stop cheese plays successfully.
If you are happy to play through that stuff, great! But that stuff needs it’s own ques, nowhere near our current que system, that’s what you need to look at suggesting
Healers? Mana? Stealth breaking on hit? No group stealth whatsoever? I’ve said it before, actually, but it appears it needs repeating, again.
And actually no, since RBGs have been given equal rewards as arena they are now the more popular pvp choice than arena. Arena was only more popular because it was the only way to get the best gear.
I’m also doubting the accuracy of your pvp claims if you think RMP was fight reset spam. Only the rogue who was lowest priority target could reset fightfor themselves only and their stealth broke on hit. A thief in GW2 can fight reset their entire team on a 50 second cooldown that can be camped in.
Bro you’ve spent like 20 comments arguing with people about why TDM would be imbalanced when TDM like fights already happen in game and tournaments for 2v2 3v3’s are already hosted and its not unbalanced,. Your entire argument has been based around shadow refuge being too OP and being able to reset the fight. I and other have given you good reason why stealth isn’t broken in these fights and why its easier to counter than you say.
Do you have any actual source other than ‘I saw it in 2v2 fanmade tourney?’ Because the representation of SR, thieves and spike damage in high level group play disagrees with you, but argue away. SR refuge is one example of a broken mechanic that would be totally out of place in ranked TDM
If you don’t WANT to do it, then don’t? It’s a pretty simple concept…
That’s the issue going around, OP is asking for ranked play. People can TDM right now, that’s a pretty simple concept tbh and one you would have come across all on your own if you had, I don’t know…read?
You can put whatever rules into your tournies you want to balance it, they need it. But a TDM in ranked play – would you even suggest that Anet would put in enough barriers to stop cheese plays like you have suggested? Absolutely not.
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What has this patch done to pvp…
Healers? Mana? Stealth breaking on hit? No group stealth whatsoever? I’ve said it before, actually, but it appears it needs repeating, again.
And actually no, since RBGs have been given equal rewards as arena they are now the more popular pvp choice than arena. Arena was only more popular because it was the only way to get the best gear.
I’m also doubting the accuracy of your pvp claims if you think RMP was fight reset spam. Only the rogue who was lowest priority target could reset fightfor themselves only and their stealth broke on hit. A thief in GW2 can fight reset their entire team on a 50 second cooldown that can be camped in.
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What in your adequate view makes you believe that you know anything about this topic?
I’d like to know before I make judgments on who should be able to comment on pvp matters, particularly given the quality of people brought in since the patch
Really don’t want to be rude or anything, but I think we should stop trying to convince you of anything since it seems impossible and doesn’t takes the thread anywhere.
But the same isn’t true of people who agree with you, for some reason.
Anyway according to some posters people who don’t agree with the hivemind shouldn’t be allowed to post which was rather illuminating as to the quality of their argument.
You aren’t here to convince me, thanks all the same for the offer.
Plenty of people whom I know first hand played at at least the top 100 in team ques have resounded my sentiments about balance not supporting TDM in ranked; https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Can-we-PLEASE-get-new-game-types/page/2
There is imbalance in conquest, but imbalance that is at least kept in check by the design of conquest, which is what classes have up to now been designed around.
If you’re trying to actually convince anyone and not just circlejerking the idea of an arena without thinking what it’s going tro do to people trying to play ranked competitively then convince me that it will have positive impacts on class representation/build diversity/removal of cheese.
Because I’m telling you, it will worsen those things if forced into ranked. And that’s not what pvp needs.
Leaderboards are clearly the problem at the moment, and explains why many posts such as " too many noobs in pvp " are appearing.
There are way too many people that do not deserve the top100( and vice-versa experience players that do not deserve so low rating)… The whole thing creates disparities everywhere. Most matchs i had since patch were one-sided..
This has certainly been my experience too, 4v5 has definitely gone down but scores ending in 500-100 have gone way way up, sometimes it’s your team getting it sometimes not.
You’ll be dead face down in the mud if you’re running such cheesy builds.
Is that why there are so few thieves and warriors in the meta right now?
Do you even play TDM? The meta is currently AOE condi spam. If everyone in a thread disagrees with you, you might want to ask yourself why.
Not really, in fact that’s a very stupid thing to say but I had fun at your expense none the less so thank you.
It’s ok. It just takes some people longer to learn than others. You’ll understand eventually. As others have said though, if you don’t enjoy the game mode, don’t play it. At least that way, you can go post on a thread where you know more about the topic.
What in your adequate view makes you believe that you know anything about this topic?
I’d like to know before I make judgments on who should be able to comment on pvp matters, particularly given the quality of people brought in since the patch
You’ll be dead face down in the mud if you’re running such cheesy builds.
Is that why there are so few thieves and warriors in the meta right now?
That statement right there proves my earlier point. You are saying, “TDM specifically won’t work because thieves and warriors will dominate” and then you prove that it’s not the game mode that does that, because they already are dominant in our current game mode.
So, it’s a current balance issue that is present in both modes.
If you think that Shadow refuge will be equally balanced in a TDM mode as it is in conquest well there’s some bad news for you tbh.
But hey, as long as this ridiculousness isn’t going into rated play you can have it any way you want. But OP needs to make the thread clear as we already have a TDM map now, suggesting that they want a TDM rated map. Which is absolute no.
You’ll be dead face down in the mud if you’re running such cheesy builds.
Is that why there are so few thieves and warriors in the meta right now?
Do you even play TDM? The meta is currently AOE condi spam. If everyone in a thread disagrees with you, you might want to ask yourself why.
Not really, in fact that’s a very stupid thing to say but I had fun at your expense none the less so thank you.
You’ll be dead face down in the mud if you’re running such cheesy builds.
Is that why there are so few thieves and warriors in the meta right now?
If you don’t like it don’t play it is precisely what we have now. I don’t like it and I don’t play it, there’s no reason given to put it into rated play forcing people who don’t like it to play it.
Missed this bit. No-one’s talking about forcing people to play this. It’s completely bonkers to put it in the same SoloQ or TeamQ as Conquest. The reasons for implementing this map for real are strong and it doesn’t have to affect you in any way; We have the base for this game mode and it appears like a ton of people are enjoying very much!
People where already making CAs for Dueling and actual “Team elimination” event long before this map.
Why are you asking for that? That’s already a thing and it can stay as ridiculously unbalanced as you want to to be
I don’t really see any good examples of how a TDM game mode wouldn’t work; If you don’t like it, don’t play it.
Examples;
Perma stealth
Spamming fight resets til you win
Insta-gib
Unkillable bunkerIf you don’t like it don’t play it is precisely what we have now. I don’t like it and I don’t play it, there’s no reason given to put it into rated play forcing people who don’t like it to play it.
What’s the actual over-powered part for building around permanent stealth? If it actually turns out to be something of a problem (which I have never seen in any 3v3s I’ve witnessed, and not either in the Courtyard), just balance it out; Perhaps make revealed a bit longer (perhaps after a certain amount of time), or go for Blizzards solution to the problems with the Crystals.
Insta-gib, really? Super glass when matched against several other people head-on? Good luck with that, don’t think it’s all that viable though.
This is a viable concern I think. Nothing that would make the entire game mode un-doable by any stretch of the imagination, definitely not.
It feels like you’re trying very hard to not make this sound like a really good idea.
If you genuinely believe that insta-gib isn’t a thing in GW2, you haven’t played much organiised group pvp. The top teams I’ve played as BrB, even since the days of qualifying points as with Kult/guild, has been burst heavy. And as Ive said many times, any class without a hard defence cooldown is gone, especially necro. No questions no qualms no counters. You blink, you burst and then you guarantee the stomp, the only counter to it is the enemy team’s shadow refuge in which case you cycle through resets or push far while stalling at mid.
Without the secondary objective of points to capture the way to win would be camping SR until someone makes a mistake. Super glass is now and always has been the way to go, there’s no point running a soldier’s amulet while you have almost 100% uptime on evade and an on-demand fight reset. So yes it certainly is a concern, and if you can’t see the overpowered side, well that’s your deal.
Im still not convinced that there is some lack of balance that would lead to the absence of a TDM.
In your view, what would be the counter to a team with even one thief using shadow refuge to reset the fight endlessly?
Conquest has a clear drawback in that they’d lose the capture point
EDIT: they really are that effective, I’ve already said, any class that couldn’t hard counter a spike would be out. Thieves and Warriors are already doing too well in dueling and that’s with restrictions on stealth resets.
So if they are using shadow refuge to reset the fight, and only have 1 thief, and if that thief decides to run reduced recharge on deceptions, his shadow refuge has a 48 second cooldown now. Thats quite long honestly and you can do a lot iwth 48 seconds. However, there are easy ways to counter shadow refuge. Use cc’s like push/pull/fear to knock them out, and even if you dont have that, aoe the area to death and their only choice is to take a lot of damage or move out of the refuge and get revealed.
It’s still a teamwide fight reset, it’s value warrants a cooldown of 3 minutes minimum. The only reason it’s even close to acceptable atm is because conquest eliminates stealth being used as a massive team benefit.
That’s still assuming that there’s only one thief, two would be able to guarantee team stealth even if you miraculously revealed everyone inside the first shadow refuge
Im still not convinced that there is some lack of balance that would lead to the absence of a TDM.
In your view, what would be the counter to a team with even one thief using shadow refuge to reset the fight endlessly?
Conquest has a clear drawback in that they’d lose the capture point
EDIT: they really are that effective, I’ve already said, any class that couldn’t hard counter a spike would be out. Thieves and Warriors are already doing too well in dueling and that’s with restrictions on stealth resets.
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It needs to be removed. I was playing a tournament yesterday and one of the guys says “This is my first time in PvP” and he ended up with the most points but was easily the worst player on the team, as he would cap a point and it would be lost 5 seconds later, whereas the rest of the team held the points.
Or that guy on skyhammer who walks away with 300 points but can’t play worth a penny without spamming knockback at people walking through the door
I don’t really see any good examples of how a TDM game mode wouldn’t work; If you don’t like it, don’t play it.
Examples;
Perma stealth
Spamming fight resets til you win
Insta-gib
Unkillable bunker
If you don’t like it don’t play it is precisely what we have now. I don’t like it and I don’t play it, there’s no reason given to put it into rated play forcing people who don’t like it to play it.
I played a match on Foefire last night and none of my teammates would fight on point lol. They’d cap sides and 10 seconds later enemy would decap both because they all pushed mid. Miraculously we won 500-400 not sure how.
I think people having a high starting MMR can be a problem if they have to face really good teams, maybe start them off lower on the leaderboard. More importantly there has to be a mandatory guide that explains how to fight on point and rotate. The basic tutorial about stomping and shooting the treb is not good enough, they need to learn map awareness. Maybe post a link to Josh Davis’ guide and make it available as a link in the game
My biggest woes are; stomp/res awareness there’s so many times when we’ve basically won mid but someone needs stomping or ressing and the guy you are shouting at through your screen is just swinging their hammer and suddenly the other team get a player back up and the fight you’ve just essentially won takes a 180.
But yeah people abandoning points/using hotjoin tactics etc are big problems atm
Have any of you not wanting 2v2/3v3 DM ever even joined a 2v2/3v3 DM tourney? They’re already FAR better than Conquest… No need to theorize, it’s a weekly thing and yes it’s more fun and I’d venture to say even more balanced than conquest (with some quirks). At least, as of last patch. The thing people don’t pay attention to is in 2v2/3v3 with room to move, you don’t have to wait for partners to show up to help you, you have no interferance and you’re not bound to a circle, meaning you can kite out of a supply drop, run from a tornado, etc etc. 2v2 has some of the most varried comps, moreso than tpvp has even, which is weird and a little sad if you ask me. Some ground rules may need to be made but overall it’s a very fun mode already, it just needs real in-game support rather than needing to be manually made once per week.
Yes I have, and more abilities/specs are banned than Anet would ever allow to make it a worthwhile gamemode. Bunkers are banned, Stealth resets are banned, abilities >90 seconds are banned. Anet isn’t going to do that and frankly they aren’t going to spend enough time tweaking bunkers and stealth to make it work in TDM any time this century.
I have nothing against TDM itself but unregulated TDM in this game would be a living hell that punishes already underperforming specs and would reward some specs which are already doing strongly in conquest.
I can’t tell if that was sarcasm, but you’re right it isn’t.
Conquest at least demands 1-2 bunkers because somebody has to be able to stand on the point.
TDM in GW2 would favor stacking insta-gib/hard defence aka team full of thieves and 1 war; perma teamwide stealth and 1button kills with guaranteed stomp. Basically, the necro dies and there’s nothing you can do about it.
Couldn’t the solution be similar to what WoW did for some abilities in arena. You couldn’t use any ability that had a cooldown over 10 minutes.
In this game, you could do it to where you couldn’t use any ability that had a cooldown over 90 seconds. They would be greyed out, similar to if you don’t own the new skill, or an ability that’s not usable under water.
What would that do about thieves/warriors?
The worst offenders that would be abusive in TDM wouldn’t be touched, this would only take out Moa, crate and Lich form.
Some ults certainly would. Class mechanics just aren’t balanced around TDM tactics.
TDM would force out any class that doesn’t have a hard [read: un-counterable] defensive cooldown, otherwise you’d just be zerged down in a second from stealth burst, stability stomped and the match is over.
TDM works in games like WoW because they have healers who can cover people without defences of their own, stealth has clear counters and is prevented from being abused there is mana to stop it going on endlessly and they don’t have a downstate.
TDM would just be a playground for already cheesy specs
I strongly disagree
TDM would require a complete reworking of so many class aspects that it’s beyond happening