They share the exact same gear, that’s why.
If you want to show off being high rank, request titles akin to the HoM achievement titles, those are for the highest % of pve players. Legendary items in this game are goals from grinding
That still doesn’t explain why people shouldn’t be able to acquire legendary items form past pvp achievements and have them given only to the 1% ranks. You’re just stating your opinion on the current game|
If you are the best in the current meta, Great! Why have the pve players been given an easier route to the exact same item that doesn’t hold them to a standard that would force them to play extensively and competitively at certain times of the season?
You are assuming that the highest ladder ranks are always the highest skilled players and not fotm rerolls.
Except they are available to everyone in pve, I find it very unfair that people can casually sail through pve and gain everything needed to make a legendary but the only way to gain one from pvp would be in the top % of a large group of players at a specific time.
Titles etc can be for people dedicated to climbing the ladder
Even people that farm will take forever to get higher ranks. The whole system need to be changed. So many complaints against this yet you are the same people that say 2+ years to get rank 80 is a bit much. Make up your mind. You want faster levels or no?
No, I don’t want faster levels, I want all people to earn rank the same way so that it actually means something
Well, upcoming Legendary skins in pvp… o.-
It just sucks that the only thing we have in pvp to aim for is rank and there’s people out there cheesing it this way, how sucky
most likely those who have it in pve will be able to unlock the skin in pvp.
I hope not, I really thought that they were finally giving people who only play pvp some kind of reward for grinding out hotjoins and tourneys.
@Bwab; I also hope they aren’t tied to leaderboards, you’d never be able to set yourself a goal of getting there eventually just playing a little bit a few times a week, whereas you can do that if you play pve.
To be clear, I don’t mean servers that actually play the games 24/7, but I joined one today thinking that would be the case but found that the rules were as follows;
One team caps all points while the other team zergs to mid-field and lets the other team farm them. Then they swap roles after match. Needless to say there were one or two very high ranked players inside taking advantage of the 4-500+ points per round.
Is it against TOC?
So a while back the team revealed in a blog post that they plan to introduce pvp legendary weapons.
This was awesome, but was sketchy on the details so I have a few questions which would like to see what people know/think;
1). Will we need to acquire them in pve and then convert it to pvp like other weapon skins?
2). If not, how will we acquire them through pvp?
3). If we are acquiring them through pvp, will our existing achievements/glory bank contribute towards gaining one, or will we all have to start fresh with some new item/points farming?
If you have any info that I have missed on the topics, do share, even if not, share your opinions! I’m most interested in Q3, mostly because I always thought that legendries should have pvp equivalents since launch, I always wanted Sunrise but never played enough pve to even come close. I did, however, play tons of pvp, and I’d be quite hacked off if I’ve done so much pvp farming [with currently nothing to even put it towards, not even gold] and basically get left with nothing for it all and have to start again on the same foot as players who join that day.
Thoughts?
Ok, just a thought, if Dhuumfire was replaced with something like Torment on crit, would people still go for 30/20/0/0/20 instead of to 0/20/20/0/30 or 0/30/20/0/20.
Because if Dhuumfire gets reworked to something that still benefits condy builds as well as hybrids, i think i would still go for 30 in spite for the Condition Duration, granted the new GM trait is worth it’s weight.
That’s pretty much what I’d expect, the condition duration scales too well especially for getting thhe guaranteed econd tick of terror from 100% fear duration.
That and we are severely lacking in other options tbh; no reason to go into BM unless you want a well build, no reason to go into DM unless you want a minion build. If they did remove dhuumfire then whatever they replaced it with would have to be pretty bad to consider not going the full 30pts into spite
Condition builds still have no other option which weighs up to 30/20/0/0/20
I was talking to you, and I stand by that there is no point talking about pvp in terms of numbers, especially in terms of bleed pressure when neither profession is reliant on it. Bleed might account for more damage than any one other source during an encounter by virtue of being atached to auto-attack, but my output comes from other sources, bleed is merely the most common filler.
I’m rank 48/84.59% win ratio and highest ladder rank being 59[albeit a currently retired one]. Never have me or my team wanted bleed pressure from any source, not from engi, or necro.
…No point of talking about numbers in PVP? What do you think governs the system of PVP? It is about how high your numbers are, at what rate those numbers come (divided by activation and animation time), how reliable those numbers are (procs and chances to hit), how available those numbers are (recharge time), and how those numbers defend against other numbers (vitality, toughness, protection, cleanses, invulnerability frequency, etc). It is these very numbers that Arenanet changes to balance classes, and since we have seen unquestionably the effect that these numbers have on the metagame, then it means that the numbers are a foundation of the game.
I’m going to stop you here, since your case for reasoning is that objectivity, mathematics, and logic have no place in discussion where they are fundamental. Get rid of those and you are left with nothing but unverifiable hearsay, incomplete anecdotes, and paranoia drudged up on the same level that the boogeyman is around every corner and is going to get you no matter how strong or well armed you are. This train of thought will devolve into nothing but a “But no, I can counter their counter by doing this counter on their other counter”, which will never produce anything meaningful.
Goodluck with your 5x zerk warrior teams then.
I don’t know how/why you think you can ‘stop’ people, but continue as is if you wish, most of the mechanics which are governing pvp are not related to damaging numbers but rather active control mechanics, I dont really see you as much of a voice on the matter if I am honest.
If you want to live a happy life then stop asking why thieves have everything so good/easy, it’s the only way
I really do have to keep insisting that the nerf to terror wasn’t because of dhuumire, but because of terror. In that patch, at the same time we received dhuumire, we also received twice the amount of fear, in both AoE and on single targets.
Considering that terror damage wasn’t cut in half, this still comes out a big win.
Against who? People who walk into the wall?
It’s 0 extra fear and -1 utility slot against targets with the perception to #1 not walk into a bright green wall and #2 see an attempt at doom’ing you into the wall and anticipate it.
I’m not sorry if people have to actually think whilst playing against a necro
Why are people posting number logs like we’re talking about stand and cast pve, this is spvp, 10% extra bleed damage isn’t going to do anything to help our shortcoming in pvp
If you are talking to me, then it is simply objectivity. I refer to my analysis as potential, largely because there are countless ways things can go wrong. Regardless of circumstances, the potential skill exists, and player skill allows for greater achievement of that potential.
Please tell me the potential of a class who has meagre practical access to stability [in terms of actually putting it to use] at the cost of up to 50% of their ehp, versus the other professions whom all have better practical access mixed with hard walling abilities and escapes required for tournaments
I’d love to hear it, really
If you weren’t talking to me, then it is probably easier to just admit you weren’t talking to me instead of flailing wildly in to nonspecific and generalized accusations that have nothing to do with my prior analysis on engineer bleed pressure vs. necromancer bleed pressure.
I was talking to you, and I stand by that there is no point talking about pvp in terms of numbers, especially in terms of bleed pressure when neither profession is reliant on it. Bleed might account for more damage than any one other source during an encounter by virtue of being atached to auto-attack, but my output comes from other sources, bleed is merely the most common filler.
I’m rank 48/84.59% win ratio and highest ladder rank being 59[albeit a currently retired one]. Never have me or my team wanted bleed pressure from any source, not from engi, or necro.
Why are people posting number logs like we’re talking about stand and cast pve, this is spvp, 10% extra bleed damage isn’t going to do anything to help our shortcoming in pvp
If you are talking to me, then it is simply objectivity. I refer to my analysis as potential, largely because there are countless ways things can go wrong. Regardless of circumstances, the potential skill exists, and player skill allows for greater achievement of that potential.
Please tell me the potential of a class who has meagre practical access to stability [in terms of actually putting it to use] at the cost of up to 50% of their ehp, versus the other professions whom all have better practical access mixed with hard walling abilities and escapes required for tournaments
I’d love to hear it, really
Warriors are still good for nothing except trolling in spvp
Why are people posting number logs like we’re talking about stand and cast pve, this is spvp, 10% extra bleed damage isn’t going to do anything to help our shortcoming in pvp
Why did the dev point out that they are particularly looking at the OP’s feedback, they don’t even suggest which build they are running
“the necromancer playstyle” – what playstyle?
Why do I have the feeling that 1 year from now we will still be running dhumfire builds with hacked damage and still no escape/sustain tools. I can tell that guy is running sPvE heroics thinking he’s God, deathshroud does nothing to people who are smart enough to not stand there and eat through it, one well placed cc is enough to counter it when fighting for a point, that ‘massive’ burning damage gets lost into the sea of targets in teamfights.
FML I need gin
(edited by azuzephyr.7280)
I wouldn’t hold my breathe tbh, I’m not saying that there wont be any there, You can build teams around running a necro, I’m just saying that burst is still king in high lvl pvp, and right now necro has nothing to shut down a kill attempt on them without specific co-ordinated support, so you are easy picking and slightly less PP than other professions.
Getting the first kill in a teamfight is a huge point in your favor, so taking a class who can’t avoid the spike damage once the other team has locked them down, that’s a big risk.
Look at the Soul Reaping tree… Vital Persistence, Unyielding Blast, Deathly Perception. Hits like a truck if you spec for it, but if you are just another condition damage based necro it won’t do much for you.
And how much is a truck?
Because even with piercing, I fail to see how the very slow attack speed and missile speed can be overcomed by huge damage.
This guy is correct, I love the build and it feels totally fun spamming 1 to gain might stacks and inflict vuln on a few targets if they clump, but it’s still less dps than dagger 1 to a single target. You are also denying yourself healing/utilities and weapon switching while staying in deathshroud to achieve this.
You can do it, it just isn’t a very effective build, for anything
A true politician, so whilst Engi/Necro struggle together for viability of condition pressure, power necro continues to lay dead beside the parade of warriors/thieves/guards/elementalists and, fml, even rangers for melee orientated pressure. All of whom also have better roaming capabilities mixed with reliable get-out-of-dodge moves tied to weapons for cancelling zerg attempts without taking up a wasted utility [before someone tries to suggest using fail worm].
Is this like David Cameron announcing the abismal budget and blocking off naughty websites just as the Royal baby is born? Distract them with the shiny new stuff while you twist the knife
(edited by azuzephyr.7280)
Well at least we know what the new flavor of the month is gonna be (thief)
It’s not fotm when you are a consistently strong/pvp essential profession
If you read and think about it carefully you will realise that they just nerfed staff to oblivion.
Your marks aside that can be dodge negated,they will most likely be blocked as well.
It litteraly translates to:
You can not have an optimal condition/dps build and unblockable marks at the same time.
But hey,rangers got stealth now!
And they can point blank you from 900 range!
Lets wait for the next patch in 2 weeks,we might see more logic in that one.
They wont ‘likely’ be blocked, blocks are relatively rare as is. It does mean however that most builds wont be able to counter Guardians using shelter/warriors using shield block, interrupting those type of abilities was the main attraction of [the unblockable part] greater marks.
Way forward for this trait IMO: make the new baseline mark size the default and only size available, add unblockable marks to Staff Mastery. The PP of Staff Mastery is already far behind other professions +weapon traits which typically give a secondary effect like extra damage/thoughness/healing
don’t worry guys, necro still broken op.
Even I agree with that rabid-amulet-wearing euro butt of yours.
I don’t see why any of these nerfs are such a big deal as people are making them out to be
They put a gateway on the EHP that we have to generate on two “survivability” cooldowns
It’s ironic that the spec hurt probably least by these changes is the 1v1 troll that people have been crying about 30/30/x. Power builds; big hit, non-dumbfire condition builds; big hit
Signet of undeath [aka signet of dead-since-patch] has overtaken spectral walk at providing EHP
Also, you do realize that using all of your life force in DS keeps the cooldown from popping right? That’s another big part of the balance….that happens…which is still not a freaking sticky on the class forums yet….
10 characters to say;
wat
Great marks – did that actually just happen?
Dumbfire makes terror OP so the solution is to nerf terror, huzzah, well there’s a big nerf to my already behind in damage 0/30/20/0/20, I suppose everyone will be picking up 30/30/x – which I’m sure must have been the original instigator
I’m curious as to why they felt spectral armor/walk needed changes, they are our only stand and surivive tools we have and frankly they are already quite far behind what many other professions have access too
Qol changes in the wrong direction, misplaced nerfs, bad patch
No other class has such forgiving mechanics/tools as a thief does.
You are right, I could do 8k damage with other classes, but I’d suffer the negative consequences of constantly dying/being of little other use, I’d never be able to res or down anyone as I’d be far too easy to simply KO.
Thief on the other hand can dish out that kind of damage and abuse stealth to stay out of dodge and use the time to res/down players. Not to mention the stupid amount of blind/evades available to them as passive.
If the stealth and damage mechanics want to stay in their current form, then thief hp needs to take a large cut
In short, the presence of too many frontloaded elements has the potential to break the balance – or as a minimum the design concept – of a backloaded class. And a.net is pushing the envelope.
Burst is kind of essential for increased skill play, you need to finish players off. Doesn’t mean Necro needs it on the level of a warrior or thief – and we don’t have that – but we need some.
Otherwise just tick, tick, tick, predictable damage, easy to fight against, easy to escape, etc.
We don’t need burst, the world of tpvp at large needs less burst. What I’d want from Necromancer is tools to counter burst strategies, which right now we don’t have, and really only certain guardian specs can do reliably. We just have underwhelming attempts at ‘different’ burst styles that are less effective in pvp [dumbfire, I’m looking at you].
Hotjoins, yes – the burning works well because there is no co-ordination, so many professions/specs find it difficult to manage conditions effectively while still being of any use to a team. But look at the archetype meta in higher tpvp; shout guardians [I see many teams who do very well run two], stealthburst thief, shatter mesmer; all you need is the guardian controlling conditions actively and most burst comps can shrug off attempts at prolonging a team fight with conditions/cc while the thief or mesmer tear someone apart without worry.
It might be frustrating when you hit spectral wall, and maybe more frustrating if they spectral grasp you back into it with burning on top, but trust me that troll playstyle doesn’t make waves in tpvp, not against good opponents.
I’m actually glad that our Mandatory bring 1x Necro for res signet is dead in the water, now there is no excuse to not look at the fundamental issues denying Necro from a spot tpvp; burst denial, real tools to deny escape attempts, condition cleanses and condition removals being more of an active choice not passive bleeds slapped onto everything and much less passive removal on all professions.
It won’t cleave either because it’s a ranged weapon. There is no such thing as a 600 range cone cleave area in the game, they won’t invent it for the necro axe.
Actually Necro axe is the only 600 range weapon in the game with single target auto-attack, the only option for cleave we have is axe #3. Ranger axe is 900 range with every attack being aoe/cleave
If you want fast [solo] levelling run minions, no question
In terms of ‘fun’ that’s too subjective to say, you wont level slowly with whatever build you choose to play, but there are faster builds for sure
Yeah when you spec for reflect focus becomes amazing in focused pvp, the reflect alone can give a guaranteed stomp 1v1 against engineer/warrior and you can also use the combo to cleanse the fear from a downed necro. That alone saves you using up either distortion or decoy to get off a stomp.
But focus is also the most versatile weapon, there’s a million ways to use it; running from point to point/defensive/offensive/utility, it’s awesome
To me there’s big issues with synergy in the traits around bunkering
Flashing for stability is going to make a big cut into the only two pseudo-bunker utilities you might spec for [spectral armor/walk], which reduces your EHP by big amounts. Other than that we have wells, and if you end up using wells then you are doing yourself a poor service by not running with a well-based bunker build.
The well build has much better synergy, but like others have pointed out, trying to bunker without stability is going to neutralise a point quickly. Taking the spec which gives us stability cuts away big amounts of EHP, limits our utility choices and takes away five damage/utility abilities.
Bunkering just isn’t our thing currently, for bunkering with deathshroud we’d need; healing in death shroud, access to utilities/heal in deathshroud, stomping/ressing in shroud. And honestly, I wouldn’t bank on those coming any time soon, or likely ever. Non-bunker specs do fine without them.
We do have some pesky/hard to kill builds using wells but there’s stilll currently no reason to want one over say a guardian who would also bring massive group utility or an ele who could put out big aoe healing and cleansing, both of which are infinitely better at ressing/stomping
Vampire spells/blood sacrificing, please
Seven days, just wait…
Deadsy
Someone beat me to it
That’s an interesting idea, but a couple of thoughts:
1) Staff/scepter, used for condition builds, would lose out entirely on the burning condition
I want to lose the burning condition, it pressures people into playing a wonky/butchered spec with poor trait synergy just because the GM trait of one tree makes too powerful a combo. The only way to play it is lolburst which I dont enjoy, it takes all the thought/skill out of one of the most difficult to play classes in this game
Condition necro does not need burning
@ the shared proc idea, that would make it more powerful if anything and reduce almost none of the damage, right now 1 condition cleanse will remove both effects, giving them a shared cooldown means that a condition cleanse can remove only one of the two strong conditions, meaning it would be impossible to bait a terror/dhuumfire combo
a solution close to that would be a shared cooldown, dhuumfire cannot proc in 10 seconds following doom, doom cannot be cast 10 seconds after proccind dhuumfire
I doubt anybody would really want that
(edited by azuzephyr.7280)
Don’t touch fear, just delete that stupid fire talent
tpvp has spoken
I don’t actually “run” with no skill (I’m not “that” newb, LOL). I just haven’t settled on a skill. I’ve tried Sig of Insp, MoP, Decoy and pDisenchanter. Just none of them seemed “must-have”.
Omg, decoy all the way. I have always/forever ran pvp with blink/decoy as non-optional but especially in phantasm builds where you could fire off illusions from the stealth and set up a burst attack with sword.
Personally I still find lifestealing very weak post-patch
Try a 30/x/x/x/30 valk build in the mists and see if it fits you, at least it will give you access to spike damage. Running the 10/0/10/20/30 build, you will be spending all of your traits/gear/utilities just to achieve being a generic melee DD with poorer gap-closing/snaring than a 30spite build, with barely any more survivability. Running energy/energy sigils will probly shave off more hp than lifestealing would save
Pardon me, I completely failed to read the part where you pointed out that you want wvw builds. I instantly went to pvp
I havent been able to play since patch [it’s killing me] but at a glance the 30/30/10 fire build looks a lot better than variations which include 20 into soul reaping for master of terror.
Even if you are using terror in 30/30/10, just by grabbing necromancer runes you will match the fear duration of master of terror from 30% duration in spite and the 20% from runes. So full length fear plus fire, the extra power is more useful than crit dmg/lf too.
The only problem I can’t comment on but can see coming is that the fire trait has a 10sec cooldown, but lots of our condition attacks are aoe, so how often is burning accidentally hitting pets/clones etc is something to watch out for, might even be better to autoattack or DS 1/2 until you proc burning on the target you actually want.
I actually agree with bwab, nothing we have now has been killed.
The change to corrupt boon, that hurt – what is actually funny is that if you corrupt a target with fury/protection/might/swiftness/retaliation, then the self poison could outweigh the damage done to the target. Lol.
But we are maybe getting sexy new spectral wall, honestly if that happens then watch this space for pitchforks
Power/Deathshroud builds got a massive buff 30/x/x/x/30
It’s also a lot of extra time to be waiting for our second best stun-break to recharge
It probably wasn’t intended that you’d get fantastic uptime on phants without speccing into Illusions
Why? Illusions is the trait line for builds where you shatter illusions and don’t care about their uptime
If Spec wall gets this change [lets face it, everyone will be using it if it does], then we also get some access to confusion + chaos armour using the staff
I’m not going to set my hopes on these changes happening, I can’t do it to myself
It’d be like pong, but with death