Guild Wars 2

Yes, despite being one of those auto-pilot boon loving specs, the x/x/x/30/30 dd builds will still shrug off corrupt boon if you don’t hit them at the right time.

Are you running terror?
‘ll
Personally, I try to pressure them without CB until earth armour comes up and they come out of a water cycle, that’s your opportunity to burst them out. There’s not much you can do about mist form/RTL escapes but such is like, at least they’ll come off point. Interrupting the heal with DS3 goes a really long way but still, it’s never more than 10 seconds to another water attune, and probably 15 until another heal comes up.

jalmari.3906:

burning is wrong way to fix necro

what we need is balancing weapons (staff over anything, regardless the build anyone???) and skills and traits. and fixing the broken ones which dont work at first place.

also there’s this little problem getting nearly instagibbed no matter how much hp or armor or DS you got, because you are lacking (not saying there isn’t any) defensive stuff.

they nerfed some weapons and skills and traits to oblivion and left them there since betas. would be time to get necro back up and running tbh.

To be fair, I don’t think the burning change is aimed at covering our defences.

There’s still 0 info on it, so for all we know at this point – they could be trying to make signet builds viable by adding burning to casts, we don’t know.

What are you going for with this build, AoE chill spam for zerg?

Chilling darkness can be relatively weak in certain builds even with WoD, but in yours it’s completely wasted as you only have access to one blind by mixing a well with putrid mark

Try and use warhorn speed so that you can drop locust.

I know it’s hard not to pick trash from the spite tree but iii might be a better option than chill at 25% hp

Lopez.7369:

Iceflame.5024:

Lopez.7369:

Necromancers have the best counter to stability in the game by far, so the comic makes no sense.

I think people are going to be surprised how much more life force generation, access to burning and the Death Shroud rework will help.

So thief boon stealing spam doesn’t count I guess and other class boon removals too?
The comic is saying that if we get good access to burning in addition to what we already have, then there’s a high chance we’re going to become OP.

Corrupt boon on a 40 second CD, well of corruption on a 45 second CD as well as spinal shivers with a century of a cast time can’t even compare to thief boon stealing spam you know.

It can and does because of range.

The steal is better;

Corrupt boon= -1 boon to target/1 condition of lesser value to target; 20 second stability becomes 1 second fear
Strike= -1 boon to target/1 boon of equal value to self; 20 second stability becomes your 20 second stability

That’s without considering all the extra goodies that thieves get baked into their spammable attacks

Balekai.6083:

Mammoth.1975:

Here, try this:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNAW7YjQad6haaa0bKAJFPj9kivHPqwxUKKndA-TsAg2CrIaS1krJTTymsNN8Y5xeBA

That’s fairly close to my build.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNAW7YjQad6Zaub87JApHPj91TK+e8IFBPMA-T0Ag2CrIaS1krJTTymsNN8Y5xOgjHPPA (I change the elite between Flesh golem and Plague)

That’s the SPvP version of my WvW Apothecary Build. I use it in SPvP for skirmish practice and it does fairly good to above average for me.

I find when most look at Necro healing, they just see 130 healing per tick Regeneration boon on a few select skills and maybe see a 40 second recharge group heal called Well of Blood, with a inferior self-heal to consume conditions, and having a measly 152 healing tick over 10 seconds. On top of many builds being based on “how does this benefit me most” rather than “how does this benefit me and my group most,” a healing necro’s viability is usually scoffed at.

What many fail to see is that we have access to 6 second group regeneration (up to 5 targets) on our quickest recharging attack skill (Mark of Blood). Combined with that 4.75-6 second cooldown, 1200 range and the usual attraction of this skill for a conditionmancer (3 stacks of 8 second AoE bleed), your fastest AoE bleed attack becomes your main AoE group support healing skill as well.

At 844 healing each rengeration tick should be healing 236 if my calculations are right. By just stacking bleeds you can keep this up on allies in close range to your targets 24/7 and from any distance. That’s 2350 health every 10 seconds (1050 more than no healing power), or 7080 over 30 seconds (3150 more than no healing power) on up to 5 targets. You can also take the Mark of Evasion trait for the two 8 second bleed stacks and 6 second AoE regeneration on dodge roll and have AoE regeneration in two places.

Well of Blood has close to if not the best scaling group heal with healing power in the game. The calculation being 152+(Healing Power x 0.4) ticks over 10 seconds. It’s arguably close to if not the best group healing skills from an access and simplicity stand point (Large Radius, it’s a heal skill, can have a 32 sec CD and can be 900 range ground targetable). With Shaman stats and my trait setup, this healing skill self heals me for 6084 health, group heals for 490 per tick over 10 seconds (4900 health) and grants 3.9 seconds of protection to those initially in the cast radius, for an extra 33% damage reduction. Stacking WoB with two other wells would give you 11.7 seconds of Protection to greatly increase your healing effectiveness temporarily.

Based on all that I think healing/support necros are viable to a degree with shamans set/build. We can’t be as reliable like “real” bunker build keeping a point though. We can do so if there isn’t much CC and we can hold, contest or take points in group fights on points (all that AoE bleeds, AoE healing, AoE protection and boon/condition conversion/removal adds up). This build also seems to do very well 1vs1 against all but a few select builds.

It definitely has its problems too and can fail big time if you and/or your team play bad in a match. All those buffs and support become redundant if they can’t minimize downs, greatly prolong fights or turn fights to your favour. In those instances you become a walking corpse that “hangs on” 5 seconds longer with a bugged 1/3 hp in down state.

What comps do you usually run? That seems like a very heavy trait investment to just achieve wells + staff

If you wanted extra longevity you could drop epidemic for WoD or Sp Walk, all of your condition attacks bar sceptre auto attack are aoe already

Iceflame.5024:

azuzephyr.7280:

Are you trying for full bunker using shaman amulet, or any build in particular?

The healing isn’t great scaling, I’d prefer a condition/toughness/vitality amulet but eh…
It’s doable, the main thing I dont like is that any time I dont want to spec condition/glass with rabid amulet I feel very tied to taking 10 into blood magic for mark of blood dodging, and focus on keeping regen up as much as possible for the HP from shaman amulet to be worth it at all. Consume conditions scales alright with healing, nowhere near the behemoth that is well of blood but it’s some extra survivability [of course, it’s 0 extra survivability any time you can’t activate your heal = plague form/stun/zerged/deathshroud]

Is there any real reason why there are only two amulet options for condition specs in pvp?

You mean 2 amulets that are rabid, carrion, shamans, rampager?

I was going for the fact that two of them are utterly unused

The options that are missing are ones that I’d actually want, a condition inverse of soldier/valk; CD/T/V and T/HP/CDr

Are you trying for full bunker using shaman amulet, or any build in particular?

The healing isn’t great scaling, I’d prefer a condition/toughness/vitality amulet but eh…
It’s doable, the main thing I dont like is that any time I dont want to spec condition/glass with rabid amulet I feel very tied to taking 10 into blood magic for mark of blood dodging, and focus on keeping regen up as much as possible for the HP from shaman amulet to be worth it at all. Consume conditions scales alright with healing, nowhere near the behemoth that is well of blood but it’s some extra survivability [of course, it’s 0 extra survivability any time you can’t activate your heal = plague form/stun/zerged/deathshroud]

Is there any real reason why there are only two amulet options for condition specs in pvp?

WoP does have a few gimmicks, for example if you stand in a fire it will spam aegis on your team every seond [nice for the legendary shaman fight, jsut stand still for 5 seconds of block spam]. In pvp shortbow rangers can easily put 30+ seconds of vigor on you by spamming bleeding into the well at the speed of light, any permeating fire field becomes a safe haven.

Iceflame.5024:

I can see well of corruption being used again enemies trying to stomp your ally when they got stability or are trying to revive their teammate. Well of Power on the other hand is too much of a situational tool with a huge CD which makes it completely unappealing. I’ve been considering to take well of corruption instead of epidemic so I can have WOC and corrupt boon but haven’t done it yet. Could work if you combine them. WOC is really nice for keep at the forest for example. If you have both targetable WOC and WOS, those are a very good combination to use on stomping and ressing targets and small capture points.

I’m currently running WoC/corrupt boon, my first major concern was that in tpvp I’d still have to carry undeath as my third utility, so no stunbreaker to speak of.

So far things are actually not bad, I run 0/30/10/10/20 with nightmare runes/shaman amulet, so tanky but not total bunker. I haven’t missed the stunbreak all that much, most of the times I think I’d need it are times when it wouldn’t make much difference, like getting zerged by double burst class alone. Other than that the double corrupt is amazing.

Do it, don’t look back

Iceflame.5024:

In sPVP they are good when for stomp/res moments.

WoC, yes, you can throw it on a downed ally to strip/fear people trying to stability stomp, or throw it on a downed enemy to do the same to stability resurrects.

WoP will still let you be interrupted by fear before turning it into stability while you are trying to stomp/resurrect [if you are 100% clear of conditions other than fear at the time] and does nothing to stop dazes – as they aren’t considered a condition. Giving it a cooldown similar to well of blood might make it more attractive to me, but still probably not enough to give up a utility slot for.

THE Dentist.5960:

Probably people whining about BM bunker builds. Guess what every class has a bunker build.

Where pets do everything for them?

Pet damage was ridiculous in spvp, rangers could easily get downed from doing nothing but spamming, getting downright outplayed, but if you had anywhere under 50% hp the pet could easily down you before getting a stomp off, and then – THEN the pet resurrects master solo – not even interruptable [wtf?].

I’m not even sorry, this is one of the most auto-pilot classes out there, your damage and survivability needs to be put into your hands so bads actually die like they would another profession.

Too much given for no player input

We’re getting v carried away with the burning ideas, we still have absolutely no idea how it will be implemented, what spec it will be available to or how much damage it will do.

The strongest thing I find about burning is that it typically does massive damage in 1-2 seconds, so it dances around most condition removal techniques/passives which just soak up bleed damage

sephire.7296:

Do other classes have as many poor traits as mesmers? Half our traits are complete garbage. So predictable fighting other mesmers since they’re all specced roughly the same.

I always think my guard has very well done traits, only one or two outright bad ones, every minor trait is golden. Necro is in a similar boat, plenty of traits which are just not-useable, or that sound like a good idea until you look at the numbers you receive for investing a trait point

You can see that they tried to give us some tools to stand there and take the beating but for hundreds of teeny reasons, the design isn’t working out, at all. We’ve got potential for massive regen uptime as condition spec but it’s incredibly awkward compared to how easily other classes get their defensive utility.

If you look at just the issue of Mark of Blood; it’s technically our comparable defense to say, rangers’/thief evade weapon skills, but so so awkward and easily countered. Right now if there’s a thief anywhere on the other team then they will be able to steal the regen faster than you can reapply it, if you are being shot from distance then you wont be able to keep the uptime from regen active, you’d have to pick between applying the bleed or potentially coming off point to get into melee range to pick up both the bleed and regen [easier said than done when we’re so easily kited].

The one word I’d pick for our class is actually awkward, the ideas behind our abilities were in the right place, some of them definitely need number tweaks, but a lot just suffer from awkward aiming, bad pathing, slow cast times and rely too heavily on positional requirements without the support in place to control positioning to any real degree.

I like the idea of using regen as a survivability tool, it’s just that in play the insta-evades out-perform it by miles in it’s current implementation.

hamsteak.1368:

this is the last response i’m putting in this thread

(Y)

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Just as a side note, you mentioned how the Guardian Aegis can be traited to do a bunch of things when removed. Well, so can the Horror (healing you, taking your conditions, boon stripping, and exploding in poison on death). I recognize that the point investment for these benefits differs, but so do the effects. No drawing ahead on the Guardian or Thief here.

I have yet to see my Horrors die in one hit to anything but a big boss or a Churning Earth. If they do die in one shot, it’s because you took too long between fights, and honestly, that’s not an issue with the trait, but playstyle. Not saying it’s a bad thing, it still took a hit that otherwise would have gone to something that mattered and possibly got some extra damage in too.

The big difference being that the guards 5pt trait is still a big benefit even if they had 0 other traits supporting blocks, thief 5pt is a huge net with 0 stealth suppourting traits, rangers – lets not even go there, ours is only any benefit at all if you are MM specced. That’s not how a minor trait should be.

And in tpvp it wont be up until you have killed someone, again that’s an awkward place to be, MM likely wont be in the teamfights – they’re bunker, jag only comes up after they fend off the roamer – if this is a thief they likely wont die at all, just stealth out. Any other spec who would be in teamfights where jagged horror could proc mid-fight has zero use for it, provided it doesn’t die to GtAoE in an instant.

I see it as part of a much wider problem too, it’s part of a tree which is totally underwhelming, confused as to what exactly it wants to be, but contains some mandatory traits for a lot of specs. It would sting a lot less if there was some better design behind the whole thing.

There is also hydromancy plus stacking three sets of runes for 60% chill duration, it’d also open up focus as a potentially viable candidate as off-hand for scepter, it would have very nice synergy with shaman amulet builds [our only non-glass option for condition dmg in pvp], the duration can get high, yes, but I’m not necessarily asking for burning damage constantly on, just lower the damage of chill to compensate for the higher uptime.

Burning just doesn’t seem very necro-y and I don’t like it, is that pathetic of me? Yes, but I don’t care lol

Probly, it would be a nice change from the bursty terror builds though, and maybe give me a reason to bring wells into pvp builds. A lot of professions can match the uptime of burning that we can with chill, would depend on how much damage they gave it

hamsteak.1368

my entire reason for even clicking on this thread was to talk about how i think jagged horrors are useless

Then why was the first thing and only thing you said asking me whether I play a thief?

Pointless OT

Damage on chill, similar to how we get damage from fear, would be more fitting.

Are we all going to be swapping to ele runes for spvp now?

What you will also have to consider with necro is that choosing between power and condition also means choosing melee or ranged. I love power but the limit to melee range, or at best 600 using the axe, really put me off using it in pve where melee range spells death in a lot of fights.

Pvp, mixed success using power builds, again I loved the playstyle but it’s much harder to deliver good results, and taking the utilities that I felt were ‘required’ to pull off using a power build meant that I would have brought very little to a team fight

Please quote me saying it’s the best 5point trait ever, or delete your post saying so.

Apart from this ‘delay’ which isn’t showing on the wiki, google, or searching through thief forums, it is working as intended, people just aren’t using it properly.

There is no using jagged horror properly

EDIT: and the comparison is a trait ability between two professions which requires the same investment of trait allocation for vastly different gains. Devs apparently aren’t happy with how strong Last Gasp is as a 15p investment, yet for the smaller 5pt investment thieves are getting a similar stunbreaking ability, whereas necros are left with reanimator in place.

Engineer and elementalist have access to more weapon bar abilities in one spec than any other profession.

Necro says hi

That it’s still infinitely better than reanimator, quite clear tbh

I’m not entertaining arguments about why thieves should be able to run berserker gear more than other classes, if any profession wants to go completely glass then that is their perogative, and they live with the consequences.

This is about reanimator

And it is nowhere near as good as any of the other profession’s traits, I agree that some of the downsides people are stating are hyperbole, but that fact that this trait has negative impacts at all on our gameplay instantly makes it worse than the other given traits

However hard it is for a Zerk thief to plan for hitting 25% hp is their own fault for running such a glassy spec, there is nothing we can do to halt the impact of the jagged horror handing out free cloak & dagger hits, or dark pathing

Then you need to get more aware and stop giving yourself revealed. I dont complain if I cast death shroud just after last gasp procs, if I dont plan for it coming then it’s my fail for not using a great tool properly

grimmson.9154:

even if you interrupt 5 people and drop a chaos storm on top of them dazing everyone now what? you got a lot of boons. nice. but you have to go 30 into chaos and skip prismatic understanding which delivers way better boons more reliable.

would really love to see better interrupt traits making a build around dazes viable in all formats (read:tpvp?!). now to be as viable as those shatter centric builds in tpvp interrupt traits have to go a long long looong way :\

That’s more a problem with shatter being too good, I’d love a mantra interrupt build for pvp, there’s plenty of synergy in our current traits for it to happen, it’s just that the synergy is rubbish, so why bother when there are two hugely powerful builds already out there to pick from

hamsteak.1368:

azuzephyr.7280:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

A pain, but not actually a detriment.

To me the detriment comes from taking up valuable space in a trait line. Yes there might not be huge negatives like some people are suggesting, but take a look at the other profession’s 5pt trait into their toughness lines, and then look at reanimator, that’s where the detriment is, it’s what you could have had for the same investment.

For thieves, you’re getting a stunbreak which [if they’re stealth specced] will start removing conditions, give ~1k healing and three seconds of total breathing room. When has a jagged horror ever achieved that? Keep in mind that reanimator’s ‘benefit’ doesn’t exist at all until after you have already won a fight.

wow i can’t believe i let this post go by unnoticed

have you ever played a thief? last refuge is useless, all it usually ever does is give you revealed if you’re attacking a player (even if you try to disengage it isn’t that good because of the delay of the skill from the time you hit 25% health)

edit: also blinding powder isn’t a stunbreak, the thief may be stealthed but you can still just attack where they stealthed, they aren’t invincible while stealthed

I play a thief all the time. If you spam attack when you get a free stealth than that is your problem

What was your point again?

Ithir Darkleaf.7923:

Arianna.7642:

This just in:

Patch Notes for June 11th, 2013

Necromancer
-Reworked the 25 point Death Magic minor trait. Jagged Horrors now have a 75% chance to cause Burning for 2 seconds on a critical hit.
-Added Death Shroud Skill 5: Summon Jagged Horror. Summons a Jagged Horror that applies the Disease condition. This is the equivalent to Bleed, but stacks in duration instead of intensity. This Jagged Horror degenerates 50% faster than normal. 60 second Cooldown.

Edited in: Hot fix for June 16th, 2013
-Addressed a bug that disabled the use of the active abilities on the Blood Fiend, Bone Fiend, Bone Minions, Flesh Wurm, Flesh Golem, and Shadow Fiend.
-Death Shroud 5’s Jagged Horror now degenerates at a 75% increased rate and does not apply trait effects.

Edited in: SotG for June 30th, 2013
~
Necromancer
We believe that the addition of not one, but two new conditions into the Necromancer’s arsenal will put them on an even footing with the rest of the Professions in Tournament-level gameplay. They are now the masters of condition application, and with the newest Death Shroud ability, all builds will have a reason to use it both offensively and defensively. We will hold off on any more large changes to see where the balance rests when the new Meta-game develops.
~

Taking bets? Anyone? Anyone?

I bet a zillion dollars on your prediction!

Please no

Softspoken.2410:

I think you’re seriously overstating the capabilities of Reanimator to block for a player. It borders more on coincidence than tactics.

I don’t know if it’s a PVE thing [that’s not my area], but reanimator is the worst 5pt trait in any pvp scenario I have come across.

I don’t agree with people saying it makes you worse than you were before, but I’d take any of the other traits listed in a heartbeat. People also aren’t considering the synergy some of them have with other traits/abilities, which we currently don’t get

Please tell me how reanimator matches up to any of the traits you listed form other professions

The Jagged Horror does not contribute towards protection of the horde

Tengu.4209:

Thieves have to deal with other Thieves aswell. We know how to deal with them because we are them.

Shadow refuge out.

There is so much wrong with your lsit of advice that I wont even go there, but thieves with this much stealth could easily res each other from stealth against a rifle warrior even if they did manage to pull off hitting an invisible target with a hughely obvious attack.

Trolls holding onto their troll mechanics, get real

Doomdesire.9365:

Sunflowers.1729:

Doomdesire.9365:

I don’t kill people just to force them to walk and repair bills. I kill people because it’s fun. If he runs away, I don’t get that satisfaction, but I still won

That means you find it fun to just kill people.

Personally, I’d be pretty annoyed if everyone that I ‘won’ against didn’t drop any loot (it would still be fun, but less).

I still don’t agree with the ‘Thief escape = you win’ sentiment. What if we made it so any time a Thief kills someone, the Thief gets no loot or WXP? He still ‘wins’ right? But the flood of complaints would crash the forums.

True, and I can sympathize for those who have opposing viewpoints of “winning”. However this is just my IMHO as to what a fight should be. I don’t necessarily have to win, but it’s the competitive factor of it. When I roam on my guardian most thieves can escape, few win, but if they run because they are going to die, I know they lost, and they do too ^^

That might be cute in WvW but in Spvp that thief who lost 1v1 at a cap point and stealthed out is now on his way to grabbing buffs/zerging another point, that’s nowhere near balanced, or acceptable

Or it could be the semi-decent answer to making DS useable as condition spec; Life Blast inflicting burning

I have to knnooowwwww…!

We are way too trait locked to consider taking points into spite as condition build, esp using terror, if it’s in spite then hybrid builds will get it, power builds would have little use for it [I’d still probably take it, the rest of the traits there are garbage].

Where they put this trait is going to be big, if they actually want to open more builds with it then they wont put it into curses, they did say that the 15pt Soul Reaping line was getting looked at, but then they’d just make the exact same terror build; now with fire

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

A pain, but not actually a detriment.

To me the detriment comes from taking up valuable space in a trait line. Yes there might not be huge negatives like some people are suggesting, but take a look at the other profession’s 5pt trait into their toughness lines, and then look at reanimator, that’s where the detriment is, it’s what you could have had for the same investment.

For thieves, you’re getting a stunbreak which [if they’re stealth specced] will start removing conditions, give ~1k healing and three seconds of total breathing room. When has a jagged horror ever achieved that? Keep in mind that reanimator’s ‘benefit’ doesn’t exist at all until after you have already won a fight.

Imagine if they totally juked us and made reanimator into THE trait to have, just for laughs.

Reanimator: delete your target when entering death shroud

I’d totally agree with Bale, I enjoy my time on Necro the most out of maybe all classes I play, it just tends to get shelved when I’ve spent the last hour getting trolled by poorly played mid-ranks in hotjoin

spoj.9672:

Tbf blaine. WvW is the only part of the game where necro’s are actually semi decent and popular (mass aoe in zergs and whatnot). I see a much larger amount of necro’s in wvw but still doesnt compare to the severe lack of them in spvp and pve compared to every other class except maybe engineer.

Love my necro in WvW, I cry often in spvp

The area denial of wells is not enough for tpvp, not with necro in it’s current state. Running with any more than 1 utility well will dent being able to carry Signet of Undeath or a stunbreaker. Both of which are esssential in tpvp.

At most, 6 seconds of area denial which could be totally negated by any of the auto-evade classes [ranger/thief/mesmer (y’know, all the under-represented pvp classes)]. Further, if you were unlucky enough to get foefire, your wells don’t cover enough ground to provide and area denial on a cap point.

We have nothing comparable to guardians ability to shrug off blind/burst spamming thieves, not with a well build you described

They both suffer from the same issues. Slow/unreliable activations, terrible aiming, and cooldowns generally too long to warrant the active effects.

But then again, this is Necro we’re talking about, why expect anything else.

sorrow.2364:

Wolfield.9812:

Dont spam the skill.

Glad i could help you, please enjoy the rest of your day.

That’s not the point.
The point is that I can spam the skill and get good results, so there is no point into using it properly.
The game should encourage players to get better and get skilled to win, not spamming. Am I right?

If mindlessly spamming gets results, then that is using it properly.

That’s what needs to change, it’s far too forgiving to bads who abuse spamming it without thought

Overkillengine.6084:

Bhawb, I think the issue is while we do have finisher abilities, many of them are often so unreliable or conditional that they may as well not exist. With the other classes they feel like they are a nice bonus on top of something you already want…on Necromancers, it feels like to get a decent amount of combos off that are useful, you gotta gut yourself in some way. Or run in a group 24/7 and hope that your team mates are smart enough to capitalize on the fields you are dropping.

Exactly this. The cost/benefit of actually using our combo finishers is often not worth it, it means sacrificing one of our minions, blowing our condition removal at a time when we may not need it, or spamming a very lacklustre autoattack for a slim chance at applying 1second of condition.

On my guardian/mesmer/thief I see combo fields and jump on them right away, they all have amazingly low cooldown/low ‘cost’ abilities which take advantage of the fields and make the ability better. Deliberately using Putrid mark to proc a combo field could, if anything, make the ability’s effectiveness overall worse.

Numot.3965:

azuzephyr.7280:

Varonth.5830:

azuzephyr.7280:

Actually Varonth what was complained about was starting from stealth, and I fully agree stealth openers should be outed with. Then people wouldn’t be coming here making reasons for bad form.

No what they actually complain about is, people going into stealth, pulling them via Into the Void, which is completely invisible to the enemy, and then Moa the guardian because he cannot dodge etc the Moa Morph (he might not even know that it is being cast as the mesmer is still invisible). You can also just pull/stun the guardian and moa morph him during this.
Guardians survive because of their skills. Moa disables all of them. Guardian fall like any other class (toughness does almost nothing to protect you) without their skills. Place an immobilize ontop of the moa. Win.

So like I said, get rid of SR opening and people have nothing to complain about. Tells are obvious, it goes back to skill – or lack of

I’ve had a few hilarious games were the other team was mostly mesmers and they cycle through moa to make sure someone is just always out of the fight. Its a strong elite and it always has been since it pretty much is a -1 to the other team when used properly. Time warp is really good for team-fights, but why bother with that when you make sure the other team can’t team-fight to begin with? I’m kinda surprised that when they buffed it they would nerf the evade it gave the player. Seemed more balanced that way, they can’t fight, but they get to slip away for 10s, and that’s a long time to be away from your team.

So why does anet listen to whiners? Well for one its the most vocal feedback, since people tend to complain about things they don’t like, rather than praise what they do. The other is just that a lot of players are not high-skilled at the game and that’s always gonna bias feedback. If you wanna do balancing you need to find out who your best players are and talk to them, because chances are they are going to have some strong, well founded input on balance. And sometimes, the whining is justified, things people really complain about are actually a problem that needs some addressing.

If your entire team walked time and time again into moa without blocking or dodging once, then it isn’t the elite which needs attention

Bhawb.7408:

You can certainly argue that they have better fields to combo off of, or that they have better utilities to use to combo off of, I certainly won’t argue that; because its true. I completely agree that we have less desirable combo fields, I’d love to see an ice field added (it fits lore/our purpose).

But that wasn’t the point of my post, nor has it been a large point in this thread that I have seen. The point was people are saying we don’t have finishers, and that is false.

There are many specs which do not have either fields or finishers.

One of my specs which runs staff technically gives me access to 1x projectile and 1x blast but in play they are rarely put to effective use. If you are staff autoattacking, God save your soul, the blast from putrid is nice, but is tied to such a niche ability that often gives me no benefit [I cant use it to combo off of friendly water/ethereal fields because half of my condition removal is tied to the ability hitting an enemy, what if they are far away/not within a field?].

Fields are so fun, I really want to be able to use them as much as other professions can

Varonth.5830:

azuzephyr.7280:

Actually Varonth what was complained about was starting from stealth, and I fully agree stealth openers should be outed with. Then people wouldn’t be coming here making reasons for bad form.

No what they actually complain about is, people going into stealth, pulling them via Into the Void, which is completely invisible to the enemy, and then Moa the guardian because he cannot dodge etc the Moa Morph (he might not even know that it is being cast as the mesmer is still invisible). You can also just pull/stun the guardian and moa morph him during this.
Guardians survive because of their skills. Moa disables all of them. Guardian fall like any other class (toughness does almost nothing to protect you) without their skills. Place an immobilize ontop of the moa. Win.

So like I said, get rid of SR opening and people have nothing to complain about. Tells are obvious, it goes back to skill – or lack of

You were done a long time ago, you just kept peddling.

Utilities required to stomp by class;
Thief 1
Warrior 1
Ranger 1
Engineer 1
Necro 1
Elementalist 0 [yay for invulnerability + movement]

Mesmer 0 [we aren’t as lucky as elementalists]

It does not take two stomps to get a mesmer down, stop trying to push this.

Actually Varonth what was complained about was starting from stealth, and I fully agree stealth openers should be outed with. Then people wouldn’t be coming here making reasons for bad form.

loseridoit.2756:

azuzephyr.7280:

You are making my point.

Every other class has forced a team to save some kind of utility just to stomp them, costing an aegis/stability/teleport which could have otherwise been used for their own benefit, the mesmer cost the other team absolutely nothing provided they actually know how to stomp.

mesmer down state is not the worst in the game.

the down #2 is a near guarantee anti stomp that can delay a kill.

Because of this guarentee, mesmer down state is just as good as a guard.

Down state from best to worse
Ele
Thief
Ranger
Guard and Mesmer
Necro
Engineer and Warrior

This list looks based in facts and evidence

MotM tourny I saw nobody running Moa. Even at rank 30-40 people don’t fall for it, hugely obvious tell, even from stealth you count 1mississippi, 2mississippi and then dodge.

You couldn’t even argue that certain profession specs or team setups are more able to handle it than others, every profession in the game has the tools they need to totally negate it, even cast from stealth.

The only other Elite which can be so easily countered has a 45/36 second cooldown, is this how Moa is going to be balanced in future?