This list could end up huge;
Mesmer -lockdown/team utility/res and stomp securing/burst/boon removal – also [it’s an oldie but a goodie] treb repair
necro -res and stomp securing/res and stomp preventing/cond pressure/burst/boon removal
guard – burst/bunker/point control/point defence/res and stomp securing/peeler/team utility/cleave/boon creation
I’m betting/hoping that this only makes it to pve/wvw like racial heals did
That’s no different to going 30pts to get monk’s focus or alt. healing as a guardian. And you are right about the weapons, staff and mace are both healing orientated weapons, which is good design.
Bad design is giving warriors better regen than guardians, with more hp, without needing to run with a healing-style weapon, they can run with hammer/longbow for high damage and CC, and still keep their insane healing.
There is no justification for that
Guardians have way more healing besides its healing skill..
As do warriors
There are no issue with healing warrior signet.
The only issue is skilled players (these who knows how to mitigate incoming damages each seconds and placements/reactions etc…).
Signet alone is not anyhow powerful, but in the right hands with the right build it’s very efficient.
It’s more than twice as powerful as the equivalent class mechanic of the Guardian class which, as stated by the game’s developers, is supposed to have more regen and blocking due to having so little hp.
The warrior regen is out of hand, that amount of regen would be acceptable on characters who are geared and traited for high regen, but so much healing with only one utility is absurd and is making the zerker amulet/stun specs ridiculous.
Bunker has to carry utilities for ressing/stomping, but the number one role is point control.
For example there are some necro specs which are hard to kill, certain Mesmer specs which are hard to kill, thief specs which are hard to kill. However if they lack stability and point control then in my eyes they are not a bunker, they are just a hard to whittle down pressure role. Bunker has to be able to stay on point despite enemy pressure and without totally relying on stealth/invuln/kiting to do it
The lsit in your OP is very good, but it might be worth noting that just by class design some professions regardless of their role will always be efficient for CC/peeling/ressing, examples being warrior bunker/necro pseudo-bunker are still strong on CC, spike thieves are still good ressing/stomping. So they mix & match
Warrior Warrior Warrior Warrior and Warrior
How dare you speak the truth
Bunker/spike/pressure are imo the the necessary three, leaves two spots to fill as team pleases. There is great synergy in having guardian/shatter mesmer/thief filling those roles, makes for a very easy play of stripping all boons>setup spike>easy blind + stability finisher, that’s mixed with very high damage and very high escapability. IMO in tpvp necro/engi are both desirable for condition pressure, for teams against a warrior I’d rather take engi [or we’d spend the entire game trying to peel warrior from necro], for teams running double guardian or any boon-heavy setup I’d rather take necro
This might be seen as a ‘golden oldie’ view of tpvp nowadays, but from what I’ve seen, still effective. At one point every single team was guardian/mesmer/thief/ele +1
I do enjoy playing against team who are set on doing things differently, I have seen some very well played condition thieves for example
[quote=3072507;azuzephyr.7280:]
Except the condis were strong before that. People just were so obsessed with huge numbers they never tried condis out. Now that they see how crazy condi’s can get… They may also see they were never in need of a buff. Just player attention.
I don’t really agree with this, Necromancers couldn’t spec for terror until fairly recently, at release it did abismal damage. Engineers were in a similar boat until some of their abilities were buffed to make condition builds viable, same goes for longbow/sword warriors. It wasn’t that people just didn’t notice that conditions were omg amazing, it’s that they werent amazing until patch x came along to make it that way. Conditionmancers did exist pre-terror but were laughably easy because most of the damage was tied to bleeding so any passive condition cleansing could cut huge chunks out of your damage.
That being said, I would have rather have other options than dhuumfire added, as was the consensus for most of the necro community I can assure you. It felt like a big bandaid; rather than go along fixing lots of Qol issues and tweaking abilities in unique ways, just give us burning to make us feel strong so we can’t complain
ON topic: yes, warriors need to be brought back down to earth, the cooldown on burst skills is a good place to start
Another anger management thread from Sensotrix.
Here’s your entire elitist argument debunked Sensotrix: last month in solo que I beat you, rather well I might add. You followed this up by raging at me and didn’t apologise until I told you how it made you look as a frequent poster on the forums acting like a kitten.
I too have been playing pvp since beta and launch, I spent the first 6 or so months below level 60 in pve because I didn’t play anything but pvp. However real life commitments now mean that I don’t have the same amount of glorious time to spend in pvp anymore hence my leaderboard rank falls to the wayside. Hence according to your views, might class myself into the 90% category that you’d like to see silenced.
So however you view yourself as the magical 10%, this firstly is not true in my eyes, you were very easy to beat and made numerous mistakes which should have been easy to avoid, secondly it doesn’t give you or anyone else the right to discount another’s opinion or input to the game which we are all mutually enjoying, and lastly does nothing to strengthen your own argument or views.
To tell the truth your manner of posting on the forums and your views on the game speak louder than where-ever you perceive yourself as a ranked player, and I hope to God that they specifically don’t listen to yours.
See you in solo que,
Az.
tbh i don’t even mind hammer itself, i just hate how warriors as a package have no trade off like other classes have
regardless if they go bunker or zerker, they still do good dmg, have good survival, best mbolity in game and good CCs
This all over.
I could spec and gear to heal maybe similar amounts to healing signet on my necro, but my damage and a good chunk of my cc would take a hit [not to mention it would take more player input than warrior to achieve]. Warriors are getting static amounts of cc damage and survivability from passive traits, utilities and weapon sets which basically have no hard counter. They have everything rolled into one with no downside.
Immobilize is strong mostly because of how it is applied. I think the condition itself is in a good place but certain classes have too easy access to it. Look at necro dagger 3, big cast time, obvious animation, long cooldown. Guardian hammer 3, same deal…then there’s thieves, yeah.
Right now I’m running 20/0/30/20/0 with gs/hammer, lyssa runes and valk amulet. I’m not running tpvp, mostly just hotjoins as I play Mesmer more in tournaments with my team.
The build is having mixed success, but it often feels that I’m winning due to vastly outplaying someone most of the time, not that the build is really shining against a particular spec or that it really came through in a tight spot. Does anyone happen to know a really good meditation build for hotjoin lols, or will I have to grab a staff and go back bunkering?
Also I know hammer might not be the best option for guards all the time, but I do love using it and would rather play a different profession if I had to go ranged caster, so if possible, try to base feedback on using hammer as a must^^
ty
This is going places
While that would be cool, it would mean
1- make glacial heart a grandmaster trait, which leads to
2- moving it somewhere else. Which grandmaster could be removed/repositioned? in which line? wht to place in the void left in Glacial Heart spot?
3- guardians have so many sources of burning that chill instead of burn would have a way too high uptime for how powerful it is.Definitely intrigued by the design idea tho.
Put it in the Zeal line. That would achieve two things.
First, there’d be an actual incentive to put points in Zeal, which is currently by far the least popular guardian trait line. You could downgrade either of the existing Zeal grandmaster traits to master. They’re not good enough to warrant their current status anyway, which is part of why nobody puts points in Zeal.
Second, this revamped grand master version of Glacial Heart would synergize with the Zeal stat bonuses since you’d want power and condition duration (but not condition damage) in a guardian build that spams chill but has no source of damaging conditions.
To keep the trait numbers even, move Focused Mastery to Valor to replace the missing master trait. Focused Mastery would synergize better with Valor anyway since our focus skills are a source of on-demand block and Valor has other blocking-related traits.
As to the problem of this probably being overpowered…Well, at least it’d be fun and unique. It’s also not like this would be a huge DPS build since there’d be no burn damage and having to put 30 points in Zeal would not allow for maximum power DPS setups.
If balance proved to be impossible you could modify the trait to read, “All burn effects are replaced with a chill effect of equal duration or 2 seconds, whichever is lower.” Then you could still use some condition duration stuff to get the chill up to 3 or 4 seconds but you couldn’t get 14+ seconds out of skills like Zealot’s Flame and Shimmering Defense. That would probably not be stupidly overpowered, at least.
I would love this, a guardian symbol build with hammer that is actually viable
/swoon
:o
I didn’t even notice ele had no piece of the pie, lol.
Definitely shocked to see Mesmer that low, everything else looks pretty standard
Any builds that would take blood are locked to other traits in that tier, any builds which don’t take blood but would want that trait are locked to other traitlines
Catch22
That’s what I find, if the other team pulls a hard switch on you, game over. Almost every other class has an ‘oh kitten’ button or an effective escape to shut down a spike, as power you just have to stand there and take it, and that pressure shuts down almost all of your damage as DS drains so quickly.
I love that 30/10/0/0/30 spec too, it’s just too easy for people who know what they’re doing to abuse you.
I’d love it if this turns out awesome, might actually make hammer build not feel like a total waddler in pvp. But like most people have said, if the cooldown still sucks then it’ll still be stuck in the ‘never used’ pile
The point is for comparison, at no point have I asked for necro to be buffed. Thief builds like this bring too much to the table, and the devs agree if you’d like to check the tracker
@div Jerry E plays conditions for tpvp [I have played against his team], so even if I took leaderboard representation as a point you are looking at 1% of the top 100 compared to, oh, how many thieves?
Sensotrix just take a breathe, you started raging at me a few days ago in solo que because you lost and it really makes you look less credible. You might have some good points and things to share but can the petty temper if you want people to take you seriously.
Can you link me to one please.
Definitely agree about thief being low risk-high reward, but as you said, those specs are the ones which make it into the meta.
Why?
Because for some reason the specs which have high risk like melee necro, have little-no reward. Which is a pity.
Power necros are non-existent in tpvp, thieves are rampant in almost all teams and comps. There is no matchup even close to a power necro and a thief. It is not rock paper scissors comparing power necro to thief, it’s comparing battle tanks to paper planes.
An equivalent skill to off-hand pistol on a necro has a 50 second cooldown and takes a utility slot, the only thing better is the radius which equates to very little when stomping.
I tried asking myself and the only answer I could come up with was: everything
But that’s probably a little dramatic. Typically if we say that powermancers could come in three flavours;
-Wells
-Deathshroud
-Hybrid conditions
None of them are seen anywhere in tpvp, some people may have had mixed success in duels, but in team settings where taking a powermancer means excluding one of the other possible options; we are outgunned out-damaged and out-perfomred utility-wise by so many other specs.
So what would you change to make people want to bring power necro into tpvp?
While you are welcome to comment on any areas of the class/spec you believe would be relavant, I’d love to see some focused feedback on things like:
-How would we help stomping/ressing? [compare this to how well thieves with offhand pistol can guarantee stomps etc]
-Which role in a 5man team would we fill?
-What would justify changing out the current go-to spec for a power necro for that role?
Much love <3
I’m not saying you should be running zerker, I’m saying there is still almost no tradeoff.
You are still doing massive damage, cc, survivability plus stomp/res suppourt while having the slippery in/evade/out playstyle. If you want a comparison try a dagger build using a necromancer using the same gear in hotjoins and see just how much a build like this has going for it. Thieves still have far too much given to them compared to other classes, and tbh most of it is cheese style spamming
But barring warriors who are insane atm, no other melee specs bring as much damage utility and survivability as this. Even guardians can’t ensure stomps/resurrects as well as off-hand pistol does and they lack any of the other benefits of thief builds
Remove condition damage……….oh my
There are definitely a lot of cheese specs out there but this isn’t the way to go about it
FWIW: I made a warrior for the first time in any game I have ever played yesterday and I’m destroying everything to the point where I feel sorry for anyone who can’t spam stability….so basically other warriors
I know this was made as a challenge to condition damage specs, but making a Godmode class was a very bad move, doesn’t reward skill at all
I must admit the build is quite OP for me, because it is so hard to catch in 1v1 but this is what thief should be.
.
I don’t agree that is what thief should be at all, can you justify why you believe this over the other classes?
There seems to be very little tradeoff for mistakes in this build, multiple times you get hit by things you shouldn’t [such kittenters] which should spell KO for glass builds, but can be shrugged off by the in/out teleporting.
There is also the guardian wall which does not provide a positive effect to allies, only the knockdown to enemies
Yeah, unless you are running with 4 other people who you KNOW and are in contact with on comms then chance plays a large part in arenas.
They try to average teams, but your rank 50 might still suck, their rank 1 might be a natural. Take it in yr stride
‘cost’ = being the only melee with no escape, why bother adding HP costs
Honestly, I can’t blame people for becoming frustrated. There have not been many changes at all to pvp in the past year, they have stated things that they plan to do recently which should have been in at launch.
I’m not saying that the team deserves to be berated for this, not at all, but if anyone plays Marvel Heroes and reads the forums [stick with me here], you’ll see that the Gazillion team have almost constant interaction with people on the forums, make very significant updates almost weekly, constantly aim to make their game grow a little more fun every time they touch it. I can’t say the same happens here, tiny changes to gameplay take months to happen, when it really shouldn’t.
Skyhammer sucks, yes.
But how did that guy abuse fear? If you died on the ledge without falling off, then it would have played out just as if he feared you anywhere. Like Bhawb said though, the entire place is just cheese specs spamming pushbacks to get free kills and make people rage
But don’t we talk about PvP here? There should be Pve-Pvp connection in like it was made in GW1 but there is nothing like this. They promote Pvers much giving them good skins at the begining (read: living story skins like Super, achi armors etc).
Well tbh I’ve viewed the pvp skin system as very…weird to say the least. The rewards for reaching rnak 50 are the skins from 70-80 questing. Some of the hardest to aquire skins in pve are very easy to get in pvp, some of the hardest to reach in pvp are sold for less than 1g in pve.
Thief/shatter mesmer have the strongest 1v1 options while also being very widely suited to most tpvp teams, my two cents anyway, goodluck!
Laurel can’t be spent on nice things for pvp
But can be spent on nice things in PvE like ascended trinkets.
You’d be surprised on how many people who pvp don’t pve at all and/or quit.
I basically don’t pve at all, I’m maxed for ascended gear from doing monthly pvp achieve, but it all goes to waste – I never use it.
I also agree with EoNBoN, I’d be more than happy if pve players could use their legendary skin in pvp, if pvp players could use theirs in pve. It makes a lot of sense to me, at least.
I agree too that the grind in pvp should mirror the grind from pve. But, how do you match the time spent accurately?
There is basically no risk of losing in pve, whereas if you happen to be unlucky in pvp hotjoins you could lose most of your matches that day and spend a lot of time getting steamrolled by the other team while your team mates drop out of the mists.
I accept yr point Bwab, however I think looking at the upcoming legendary addition as an incentive is a little non-progressive.
I’d still play as much pvp as I do now with a legendary to work towards as a goal. Having no ‘carrot’ in pvp hasn’t stopped me enjoying myself so far, nor will it, but in a game where the only tangible upgrades are to aesthetics – I want my fricking sunrise like the pve players have. And I want it now.
Laurel can’t be spent on nice things for pvp
Well they are confirmed, so it isn’t a question of ‘if’
<3
That’s actually a very good point Michael, the top % of ladder might have less pvp experience then people lower than because they settled on rating,. Looking at the leaderboard now, some of the top 25 have under 100 wins, some over 1000
Well there’s a few things about that;
Leaderboards haven’t been around for long, so someone’s rank there doesn’t count how much pvp they got in before they were released.
That’s where I find myself, I did tons of tpvp with my guild at the time after release and before I started my placement just after Christmas, but now I’m on limited time. So now I’m rank 50 [has taken me absolutely months to get from 45 playing only a little bit each week] with ~250k glory and nothing to spend it towards. I don’t even like the rank 50 skins on male avatars, so I’m still using the rank 40 weapons/armour.
My point is, if I had spent my time doing pve, had I been the type of player to enjoy that, I would have had the materials to craft a legendary by now. Using ladder ranks in pvp is just an unfair way of doing it.
I regret every decision that lead me to this thread
I made a more comprehensive post about this, but unfortunately, I didn’t get a dev response in it. Here is a snippet of the post and what should be in the scoreboard:
A) How many seconds was each point held by Red, Blue, or neutral?
B) How many neutralizes or caps by each player
C) Total damage and received done by each player
D) Damage done to downstate players
E) Total healing done and received by each player
F) Conditions applied/removed/cleansed
G) Boons applied/removed
H) How many stomps, revives, and deaths by each player
I) Special map mechanics: Treb shots fired, orbs ran, npc kills, etc.
J) Whatever else you can think of or other players canwoah calm down there skippy
…? The more information you have, the better you can analyze your performance and your team’s performance, so you can get better.
Well that’s true but I don’t think that counting how many times I apply Protection as hammer guardian is going to help me, a lot of the things which win/lose pvp encounters can’t really be tallied like this, it’s about reaction, luck and judgement calls