Guild Wars 2

MonMalthias.4763

Are you sure that Static Discharge does not have burst damage?

There’s also 100mines which definitely has burst damage and can still easily 100-0 people.

The problem is that SD and 100mines are very much 1v1 builds and they have very little teamfight presence; and their utility is eclipsed by Kit builds which require less traiting to be effective and in general have less opportunity cost. Other than that, Engi burst is still very much alive, just as Bearbow double melee Ranger is alive, or Killshot Warrior or 1-hand strength Med Gurd or Zerker Fresh Air Ele with double/triple Arcane is alive.

People like this make me want to stream even though my computer can’t handle it. This is a terrible build for static discharge and I have never seen anyone play it to its fullest potential. So many videos are put out where engineers drop elite1v1, get the jump from stealth 1v1 and pair it with hardcore dubstep/deathmetal music as if they were doing something difficult. Please learn how to create good builds, manage cds and utilize combo fields.

I feel like no matter how much I repeat this on the forums, it always crops up again.

• Yes, power FT/EG can work, so can condition. It has worked for over a year now.
• EG is almost always a better option than Rocket Boots.

jportell.2197

You realize that people at level 80 often use bunny finishers to troll other players that actually think rank means something… I stopped reading at that but yeah just saying.

Don’t worry, figure of speech is lost on most five year olds I have met. I was using the easily-understood “rabbit ranked” as a way of denoting skill or experience level without subjectively choosing a leaderboard (etc.) cutoff and incurring the wrath of every player below it.

Good thing it did not affect the overall message of the post in any way and everyone else seemed able to carry on through their absolute disgust.

Hi Anet,

Solo queue is a complete farce. You know it is. I’m tired of 1v3in’g the enemy team only to discover my rabbit ranked teammates failed a 4v2. I’m tired of looking at rosters, recognizing the one good person I’m matched against and pitying both of us as our inexperienced teams decide the fate of the game.

Why haven’t you removed skyhammer yet? Why don’t you increase queue times and offer a “sorry” message if no worthwhile teammates can be found? This is ridiculous. No wonder everyone at the top doesn’t queue regularly; you automatically enter a disadvantaged situation because the other team gets less rank 1’s.

Might as well post this here as others are hinting at it. I encourage everyone to look at the multiple “______ is OP” and (my personal favorite) “My class isn’t as good as it should be” threads on the front page that have originated from this person. Post history is also good for a laugh or two.

I would normally not say anything, but experience on these forums has shown that some people actually start believing bullkitten if it is said enough. As this game needs all the help it can get, consider this a formal request for you to stop posting on the forums. Your special blend of trolling or lunacy—I really can not tell the difference anymore—is neither funny (see Vee Wee posts for tips) nor satirically productive.

I don’t want to get too off topic here correcting every misinterpretation you seem to come up with (esp. since it has received Anet attention), so I’ll only do it once.

Roe.3679

I’m not sure this is making the point you want to make. Is it ok that you were winning 200-0 or 350-0? The behavior being discussed in this thread was almost surely taking place in that game. That is PVE magnitude farming more than PvP.

No duh the behavior was taking place in that game. That is why I mentioned it and why it is relevant to this thread. The team that was losing had people switch to spectate and then I became one of the people on the terribly losing side. The imbalance didn’t break the game; I dealt with it and still won from a position that the original poster would have called hopeless (and probably posted a screenshot of the final score in this thread as justification).

Plus, why would you whine? You got the win and you can AFK your way to faster rewards.

I won because I didn’t blame Anet for my misfortune and did not AFK. That was the entire point.

Also, an urge for Hotjoin to not be a complete mess isn’t whining. I want new players to learn and move on to ranked matches, not get farmed and never come back.

I can appreciate your idealism here. But the original post, in the way it generalized all spectators as “noobs” who are “carried” and ultimately reasoning that it was Anet’s spectator mode that caused such a travesty as a 4v5, is close to my quintessential whining game forum post.

It’s asking for fairness in numbers and not setting everything up to fail at every possible match if you get even 1 or 2 people that practice this behavior. I see you don’t mind that hotjoin is practically anything goes, but I view that as WvW more than structured (key word here) PvP.

Are you seriously justifying your entire point here with Anet’s generic term for all non-WvW PvP? Do I even need to say why this is laughable in this context?

Removing spectator mode removes the entire possibility that it even happens, it is the definition of the root cause.

So if someone were to beat you over the head with a dictionary right now, you would destroy all dictionaries to make that person not want to beat some sense into you? Or would it perhaps make more sense to look up “root cause” in the battered dictionary and actually address it? (Hint: The root cause of people flocking to the winning team is the desire to win no matter what and the associated benefits)

Roe.3679

I’m curious when the last time you played a hotjoin match? A solid half of my hotjoin games are completely plagued by the behavior that inspired this post and are the complete opposite of what you’re saying hotjoin is about. It isn’t carefree getting used to pvp gameplay, it’s people hunting for winning teams at an unacceptable rate. It makes it very un-fun to try to just join and play an honest game like it should be.

I mess around in hotjoins regularly. Just yesterday I had a match go to 350-0 following my solo kill of the enemy team’s lord. Someone left the opposing team as a result, and I was transferred. I proceeded to not whine on the forums, play well, kill the other lord solo and win the game.

I know that the spectate-autobalance-rejoin behavior exists. The point is that it does not ruin hotjoin games as many of these people are claiming. If you want an honest game, play ranked. Hotjoins will never be fair by their nature, and they are not meant to be. I can swap all of my skills mid-match if I want to, just to completely counter someone or gain ridiculous mobility. If you want fair, why not bring that up too?

If you refuse to do ranked, then learn to deal with the consequences of a non-competitive, purposefully unrestricted game mode. Play around your lack of a teammate by rotating around the inevitable zerg. Learn to 1v2/3/4/5 the sometimes hilariously awful opponents you’ll meet. Etc.

Roe.3679

If you really support the ideas you seem to, you should support this thread, not criticize it.

If I really supported my ideas, I would say exactly what I have said. I understand the differences between ranked, structured games and hotjoins, and I accept the necessary consequences and benefits of each. Do you?

Removing spectator mode does not even address the root of the problem; it is only the means people are using to reap the rewards of a win. Instead, remove the reward for a win if a player changes teams manually during a match (not do to autobalance).

Liewec.2896

players can still choose to change to a spectator, but doing so will make it so you cannot join the same game until it ends, even if you leave and rejoin.

Hotjoins should be fluid, allowing players to come and go as they please. Maybe someone just destroyed you and you want to see their build/playstyle to learn, then hop back into the game to try out your new strategy. Maybe I just got stuck in the map and need to reset my position in a very fun game. Etc. This is not a good solution.

runeblade.7514

The only way to win is to use a meta build.

No.

As for everyone else, I do not understand why you care about winning or losing so much in hotjoins. They are meant to be casual games where you can play with your friends. Outnumbered? Take it as an opportunity to get better and stop whining about what is or isn’t fair. I hardly ever even look at the score or teams when I join a game, and my team still comes out on top for the majority of games.

Not to burst anyone’s bubble here or anything, but most of the players I see on leaderboards now weren’t even close to being in their position even a few months ago. I would guess over 80% of the good players that played this game before have now quit and as a result the new “top” moves up into place. Solo Q is now, more than ever, a meaningless charade between two teams composed of one semi-decent player and four bad ones on either team.

This is the first time I have heard of this issue. Certainly, such a new and interesting topic will alert Anet to its importance and action will be issued within the week. Thank you for bringing it to the community’s and Jesus’ attention!

There are a lot of misguided comments in here. Our kits are not meant to be interchangeable for the same role. You do not see anyone asking for damage buffs to Elixir Gun damage because it is clearly a support kit. I think a lot of the confusion arises because Flamethrower seems to fill an undefined role between that of damage and utility.

Off the top of my head, my suggestions include:

• A buff to FT auto attack damage without adjusting rate of attack. Having a fast rate of attack fits the skill and is useful for things like breaking elementalist or guardian per-hit shields, while allowing for counterplay through retaliation.

• Flame blast does good damage already, especially when traited for the 15% increase and might stacks are involved. Changing this to a blast finisher could be interesting when paired with a change to smoke vent.

• The knockback is perfectly fine.

• Napalm is a confused skill. We already have a fire field through bombs. Flamethrower already has better alternatives to stack might and apply burning. For dps and a more interesting skill, perhaps something like: “You coat your target in napalm, slowing them and increasing burning damage for the duration”.

• Smoke vent should not be a blast finisher. Instead, it should be a short duration blind field. As I hinted at before, this would allow for interesting plays with a blast finisher through flame blast.

• Juggernaut is terribly designed. As an engineer, if you are staying in one kit long enough to gain benefit from juggernaut’s might stacking mechanic, you are probably doing something wrong. Maybe something like granting 2 stacks of might each time you apply burning would be good.

• Incendiary ammo feels like a cop-out on Anet’s part. Unless they add burning to the flamethrower in other ways, this is a necessary source. However, it offers zero counterplay and is not fun to use. An interesting mechanic would be to draw from other games and make it into an ammo drop box, where you and others could pick up the effect from incendiary ammo.

Apologies to Zefrost for derailing this thread for something that could have easily been addressed personally. Forest, for months I maintained a near 70% win ratio in the top 20 solo q and top 50 team q without a dedicated team. As of late, I have taken a break from tpvp as I no longer find it fun and the game is at an all-time competitive low.

http://www.gw2score.com/PvP/player/bethekey8314

Edit: I was curious as to why you were so quick to dismiss FT/EG and took a look at your post history. Needless to say, I can only assume a rogue flamethrower killed your mother and father with the amount of hate you put out against it. It is especially uncalled for when you shut down a new engineer’s build that they find fun, just because you don’t think it would work. In the future, I would suggest you refrain from posting on things you clearly don’t understand yourself and let the more experienced engineers comment.

Forestnator.6298

I stopt right here.

1) EG/FT won’t kill any advanced player.

Funny, I stopped reading your post early too, because my almost full year of playing all kinds of FT/EG variations in the top 50 of both team and solo q says otherwise.

I never thought I would see the day.

Guild Wars 2 Bucket List

• People complaining about turrets – Check

One of the first things you have to realize on engi is that many of our skills work for both condi and power, and that a hybrid approach works very well. Elixir gun, Flamethrower, Grenade kit and Toolkit can all be run in a power, condi or hybrid build. Often times, engineers will even run traits like Incendiary Powder in a power build just because that extra burning/cover condition helps augment your damage more than any other trait or prevent your immobilize from being removed.

Know the skills that lend themselves best to the build you’re playing and make sure you land them. Being a diehard FT/EG fan myself, I used berzerker’s amulet with those two kits. FT and EG #2 skills hit hard with power and EG #4 does great AOE DoT damage if used correctly.

I disagree that Anet needs or even relies on gem purchases specifically for Black Lion keys as a means of support. If anyone here actually had Anet’s data on the subject, I bet you would see an overall decline in key purchases over time with spikes shortly after ticket weapon skin releases.

The exchange rate of gold to gems is putting more pressure on the average player to decide whether or not their time is worth more than a gem card purchase. No longer is a Black Lion key a minor indulgence; it hurts when the gamble doesn’t pay off. I for one know that if I ever spent real money for in game items, I would want a definite return (ie. buying skins directly). For the sake of repeat purchases, it is probably best for Anet to focus on offering quality items that will not leave a customer feeling cheated.

There is a clear (massive) discrepancy between the amount of Black Lion chests and keys made available to the average player in the game. More subjectively, I feel there is another discrepancy between the difficulty of attaining a key and the chances of receiving a worthwhile reward. Increasing key availability in PvP via Ranked wins or reward tracks is one potential way to address these issues and help PvP in the process.

Easy enough to implement. Why not?

I have lagged heavily and disconnected 4 times within the last 10 minutes just sitting in the HotM. This is unplayable and I can’t imagine what effect this will have on the ToL tomorrow if those players are also experiencing this problem.

ArrDee.2573

If Tool Kit is your only kit, what are you going to do after you do your burst! Spam rifle auto attacks! That’s just thilly! If you’re not running an offensive kit, obviously your offensive capabilities are extremely limited! You’ll basically be a pre patch Fresh Air Ele but without the damage and without the survivability! It’s just not a good build! If you really want to go SD, take the Grenade Kit and go 30/0/0/10/30! With the Grenade Kit, you’ll have more burst with Grenade Barrage! You’ll have more survivability through blind and chill! You’ll have more aoe! You’ll have poison to deal with bunkers and Warriors and even Warrior bunkers! You’ll have more sustained damage! You can stack might with Enhance Performance, Battle Sigil, and Strength Runes! It’s just the better choice!

There is a reason I said “for the purpose of the build” in my original post. It is true; adding grenades into any engineer build generally makes it stronger for many of the reasons you listed here. That mindset is so engrained, however, that builds that are meant to be something else (quick in-and-out-burst) are just turned into another power grenade build

What do I do after my burst? Well, I have more skills than just my three toolbelt abilities. Also, contrary to what you seem to think, toolkit is not just a block. When you are not forced to go 6 in explosives for grenadier, you can opt for more crit and rifle damage in firearms. I would argue crit is better than raw power for this build because of the on-crit double air/fire runes and reliance on big, fast damage. Rifle auto-attack is more consistent and in my opinion comparable in damage with nades with sigil procs. In fact, I believe I would win a 1v1 where I only use rifle auto attack and the other engineer only uses nades.

This build is not for team-fight AoE. There are much better specs for that purpose than anything involving SD. Where SD shines is small fights where you can unpredictably and quickly take someone down. Instant cast abilities like surprise shot and analyze from goggles lend themselves to that and are still better from my actual experience.

ellesee.8297

static discharge is not op. it’s far from op. in fact it’s not even that good of a build. i am unsure why when newbies ask for power builds people flock to recommend SD. and they don’t even recommend the good variant of SD builds. they recommend rifle SD with tool kit as the only kit lol. godkitten it stop.

I mess around with SD in hotjoins for fun. It is simple to play and the fights are straightforward, making it a decent build for new engineers who need to learn one thing at a time. Throwing a three kit build on a new engineer only serves to overwhelm and discourage them when they never have success with it. At least with SD, you have a chance against a better player if you catch them in a lucky burst.

I would also like to know why you think toolkit-only SD builds are not good for the purpose of the build. Apparently, I have been playing it wrong.

Viking Jorun.5413

I never said I ran a zerker turret build. I said power, inferring I don’t run Condi. I actually mentioned later on that, when using a Barbarian’s Amulet to give me a 26k health pool, it was quite easy to stay in the bottom 25% of my health pool to benefit from the condition immunity of Automated Response. And yes, I’m on NA.

Sorry, but you were not playing a turret power build, you were playing a tanky AR engi. I love turrets, but any decent player knows they are awful. Do not even pretend like they are viable or that your unique ability made them so.

Kits – With no cooldown, an engineer is able to use one skill in a kit, swap to another kit or their main weapon set, and continue fighting scott-free. Unlike elementalist, there’s no punishment for cycling your kits too fast, and you’re actually encouraged through traits to swap kits constantly. This leads to the spamming of skills without much need to put thought into what you’re using, other than having a ‘generalized’ grasp on combat.

First off, what traits encourage kit swapping? Kit refinement? In its current form, it actually discourages wild kit swapping because you will waste the ability. Juggernaut also actively discourages kit swapping. In fact, our kits are balanced for their traited versions and you can not make multiple kits optimal in a single build. This means using your most traited kit more than others is a better strategy. You are just describing the nature of kits here and claiming it as a broken mechanic.

I agree that condition spam and automated response are currently over the top. Thankfully, one of those is being adjusted and the other is not unique to engineers. As for Healing Turret, I would gladly exchange some of its raw healing for synergistic conditional like Cleansing Ire. Additionally, your fact on HPS is assuming completely ideal situations (heal right off cd etc.) and even then warriors keep up.

CC – This one’s a big point. Running my full turret build with rifle and APT, I had 6 sources of knockbacks/launches and one stun at my fingertips, and one of these CC skills always available even with the other 6 on cooldown when rotating correctly. This is a stretch since most engineer builds don’t have quite this much CC, but even when not investing into turrets they’ve got rifle, flamethrower, toolkit, APT (healing turret), and Supply Crate for 5 total CC skills while maintaining their survivability and gaining the benefits of kits and conditions, as well as mass AoEs as per mentioned earlier.

Are you seriously counting each individual Accelerant-Packed Turret explosion as a CC source? What a joke. How many of your “top tier” opponents walked into 120 range of each of your turrets as they were about to die or you detonated them, sending what you defined your build by on long cooldown?

The original air of engineer expertise that you posted with is misleading to others. As I have said before…Anytime someone (experience and skill not even known) calls for a self-nerf they are automatically assumed to be so sagacious and honest. Sometimes this is true. In this case it is not. It only serves to draw those who have long been searching for justification that X class is overpowered and discredits both people in the process.

I see almost no way a power engineer build could compete in a meta where perplexity exists. Please do not make me play condi, Anet

I am not sure if anyone else has noticed this before, but Static Discharge builds create a lot of frustration for me (as the player) and I finally found out why. The Static Discharge trait counts as an extra skill, not a passive, and therefore is part of the skill queue.

For instance:

(Without SD) Use any toolbelt ability with a cast time and press another skill with a cast time during the toolbelt’s cast bar. The second ability will start casting right after the toolbelt is finished.

(With SD) Use any toolbelt ability with a cast time and press another skill with a cast time during, right after, or even ~ .5 seconds after the toolbelt’s cast bar finishes. The second skill will not go through.

What this leads to is lots of “What? I pressed that” moments, especially in PvP. The fix is simple: Static Discharge should be treated as a passive.

While I am on the subject of engi bugs, please also make Overcharged Shot trigger Protection Injection and fix Elixir F (see video).

I am not sure if anyone else has noticed this before, but Static Discharge builds create a lot of frustration for me (as the player) and I finally found out why. The Static Discharge trait counts as an extra skill, not a passive, and therefore is part of the skill queue.

For instance:

(Without SD) Use any toolbelt ability with a cast time and press another skill with a cast time during the toolbelt’s cast bar. The second ability will start casting right after the toolbelt is finished.

(With SD) Use any toolbelt ability with a cast time and press another skill with a cast time during, right after, or even ~ .5 seconds after the toolbelt’s cast bar finishes. The second skill will not go through.

What this leads to are lots of “What? I pressed that” moments, especially in PvP. The fix is simple: Static Discharge should be treated as a passive.

While I am on the subject of engi bugs, please also make Overcharged Shot trigger Protection Injection and fix Elixir F (see video).

Always nice to see more power engis. Though I would work on meaningful dodging and use of elixir S; it seems ironic when matched with such in-your-face music.

Haha someone has way too much time on their hands and a grudge against engis.

Jzaku.9765

Wow, that’s some presumptuous condescension right there. The reason I support op is not because I’m under some false delusion that “wanting to nerf yourself makes you a sage”, it is because op touches on many of the things wrong with this game in his so called “nerfs”. Attaching incendiary powder to clearly telegraphed existing moves to make it avoidable instead of being the undodgeable random proc it is now, making (only a part of) healing turret risky and interruptable like most other heals in the game, giving grenades a telegraph and delay in melee range because the entire grenade skill shot argument absolutely fails when you can unload everything instantly when you are defending a point on your opponent.

These are not “nerfs” and nowhere in my post I stated that I think they are good changes because they are nerfs to a class I find op. I find that these are good FIXES to the way engineer works currently and that the large majority of engineers, like every other class, is vehemently opposed to changes like these because they 1-dimensionally only see these changes as straight nerfs.

For the sake of time and tempers, I will leave it at this: If you believe that these nerfs (you do not fix something that is not broken) are good, you are very much out of your depth here.

Writetyper.1985

idk what I am now (decay) but I hover around here for weeks when I actively play and try.

bethekey.8314

While I do not know how skilled you are at engineer (nor do I care), your argument here would actually be strengthened if you were terrible and still “melting” people.

If you posted your ranking because of my last paragraph, the bit about lacking knowledge about the original poster’s skill and experience level was pointing to people like Jzaku.9765 blindly agreeing with someone—not you in particular. It also comes off as a late attempt for validation that only serves to discredit you further, as I said, because now skill is relevant in your original claims of beating so many classes.

Writetyper1985

What counts as “proof”?

Large amounts of unbiased data that confirm your conclusions. For this game, the agreement of many well-experienced and top PvPers would suffice.

Writetyper.1985

Have you played the game recently, strong engineer play is by far the biggest condition bomb in the game, in an aoe, while being extremely tanky and hard to take down.

I have, yes. I would say necros can bomb and spread conditions better than engineers. When spec’d correctly, I would agree that engineers can be more survivable though while still maintaining great condition pressure. I believe this is in line with the distinction developers said they wanted to foster between the two classes.

Writetyper.1985

That’s okay – those are the strengths of the class – but I’m worried that with everyone else being nerfed and engineer being nerfed in places that don’t matter at all (net turret?) engineers might be too strong and seen everywhere. That’s not showboating and trying to get justification and whatever else you’re saying

I know that it is sometimes difficult to trust the developers with their history. You can not predict everything that will be in the patch, nor can you predict what the meta will be when it comes. I did not say your concern was showboating; your showboating was showboating (it really was quite apparent).

google.3709

these are terrible suggestions :/

Thank you. However, apparently backpack regenerator is bugged (I do not use it) and that should be fixed. Condi-spam in general is also a known problem.

The main things stopping engineers from just running riot in teamfights crapping condis out on everyone is a warrior to keep them CC’d during duration of zerker stance, and a necro to return those condis as well as melt an engineer down quickly. Otherwise you’ve kind of got thieves who just need a little bit of attention from an engineer to handle, rangers if the engineer gets caught out of position and maybe a DPS guardian if he doesn’t die from 2138471234 conditions first. Engineers are pretty kitten good.

In a 1v1 I’d have to say the only things that can beat me are potentially a condi warrior (relies on what goes on with Impale and Pin Down – do they get dodged, reflected, do I take it etc), a hambow warrior (depending on whether I fight on point or not or if I play well), a necro with some level of death shroud before joining the fight (consume conditions + too many condition returns to handle + too many conditions in general). Spirit ranger is cake, sometimes even if they have the res spirit up. Thieves and mesmers have to be VERY good to beat engineers in a 1v1 – that is, I have to kitten up, and the thief has to be good enough to realise that I’ve kittened up and capitalise on it. Other than that I can just kitten out a few condis onto them and they’ll just melt.

…

Every meta build in this game has been “too much” for a while now, and just about all of it is being toned down – except engineers, for some reason. I’m not even talking strict bomb/nade, pretty much anything condi or even anything exploiting the insane CC has potential to be very very strong judging off the ready up stream. I highly suggest you tone down engineers a little bit, because nobody wants a repeat of the HGH era.

This here is all build-specific opinion that comes off as showboating, is filled with hyperbole, and fails to provide any constructive specifics or definitive proof. While I do not know how skilled you are at engineer (nor do I care), your argument here would actually be strengthened if you were terrible and still “melting” people. Furthermore, all your suggested “nerfs” affect nearly all builds, despite you citing certain offenders in particular and wanting to buff certain horrible builds.

Jzaku.9765

Wow, a reasonable engineer. That’s a first. I’m impressed and fully support you OP.

Thank you for this perfect example. Anytime someone (experience and skill not even known) calls for a self-nerf they are automatically assumed to be so sagacious and honest. Sometimes this is true. In this case it is not. It only serves to draw those who have long been searching for justification that X class is overpowered and discredits both people in the process.

Korilla.9614

Running a very squishy setup sounds enticing due to the zerker meta, but running a bit tanker build teaches you to be a better player overall.

Sorry, but this is incorrect. I too would suggest a tankier build for someone just learning the class, but too much defense fosters poor habits. Nothing teaches you to play correctly—once comfortable with the class—better than the threat of death at the first mistake.

Good luck with your engi!

Always nice to see someone trying to build the PvP community.

P.S. You’re using Healing Turret wrong and take it from a long time Flamethrower Engineer—the autoattack is terrible.

Chicago Jack

I don’t play engie…Most of all, [Teldo’s build] is skillful – you’re not just spamming nades.

Is any other engi rather sick of hearing this? Especially from someone who has not played the class? I do not mean to pick on you specifically Jack, I really just want to know what constitutes “spamming” and “skill” in this game.

I agree that the Engineer class does seem to lack some of the vision of other classes, but disagree with your conclusion that the class itself is ineffective.

• Our class mechanic is just extra skills. To me, this is not very interesting and is full of lost potential.

• Every viable build depends on a kit. We should be able to have full gadget or turret builds, but those skills are so subpar or niche comparatively that it just does not work currently. However, when played correctly, the builds we do have can be used to to great effect in almost every avenue of the game.

• Those that have played the game since launch might remember the lack of “engineerish” armor choices available for medium armor users. Since then, a few have been released as purchasable skins from the gem store. Still, other cosmetic issues remain like shotgun-esque animations with rifle and hobosacks.

I am hopeful that these will be addressed in the future though; Anet has been improving by listening to player feedback as of late.

Carpboy.7145

Out of curiosity how does one build a hybrid engi? Im assuming HGH bases with rifle, but that leaves you a bit squishy.

Well, I can only speak in a strictly PvP context, but I imagine building a certain way is much easier in WvW where there is much more customization. In almost every case, devoting yourself to power or condi is the way to go—the way stats are allocated in PvP is not very amenable to hybrids.

As you assumed, might is a cornerstone of any hybrid build, but a 3-kit build cannot incorporate HGH. So it really comes down to your amulet jewel, (condi/power mix or might stacking) runes, sigil of battle, active might stacking via fire fields and kind of build.

Heh, I have been running a power/hybrid version of this build for months now in upper-level PvP. I would not go full condition with it for a number of reasons, but that might just be personal preference.

Just going to go ahead and re-post this here…

The way warriors are designed in this game and many others, is to be a good introductory class. This says nothing about skill ceiling, only skill floor. In their current state, warriors are actually serving this purpose well. New players can enter into the game, equip themselves with strong yet easy-to-use skills like Healing Signet, Berserker’s Stance, Endure Pain etc. and perform well. This creates a problem, however, when such low-skill, high power abilities do not lose effectiveness as the player progresses into areas of the game that require more skill.

Here is a perfect example:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391

but i enjoy playing a warrior, in sPvP (hotjoin 8 vs 8 whee) / PvE / WvW
previously i was playing a mesmer in sPvP, then a thief for a short while. then i reverted back to playing warrior in sPvP. i did not use healing signet though. i used the errr mending which heals for a bit and removes some conditions.
after i learned that healing signet was balanced, i used healing signet for my warrior in sPvP again. i felt so much happier! died less, still die sometimes unlike last time, died a lot. my warrior is able to sustain much better now. he is not god like and will still die. just doing better than last time.

This is a case of an “inexperienced” player who, at first, is doing ok. Nothing special. But then, he builds a certain way or equips a certain skill, performs better, has more fun (plays more as a result) and ultimately attributes his success to an increase in skill because of increased time played. Anyone who says otherwise, according to this player, is having a L2P issue. After all, that’s what he thinks he overcame himself. Either that or he has the insight to see from where his increased ability to perform is derived (Healing Signet) and fears for it being taken away.

If you have not seen it yet, I am essentially reiterating this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6fVHZFjnmA#t=3m02s

Healing Signet, passive immunity builds are the quintessential definition of “FOO” strategies. They need to remain good, but become sub-optimal when players become skilled. When we see every warrior running around with these skills with little consequence at higher levels of play, it is apparent something is wrong. If you cannont recognize that, I’m afraid you are delusional.

From what I understand, top warriors desperately want the opportunity for skilled play. They constantly refer back to the good ol’ days of frenzy greatsword builds (ie. high risk, high reward play). The fact of the matter is, it is not rewarding to play as nor fun to play against an unstoppable force who kills you if it hits you once. Do not even begin to say that warriors become useless and easy kills after their immunities expire. Even at their point of “every skill on cooldown”, they are more mobile, deal more damage, and are more tanky than many classes when in the same situation.

Fixing this is not as simple as “nerf ____ by 20%” or “bring everything else warriors have up to snuff”. Warriors need to be given strong, active use skills that excel when used by a skillful player. It is a tough job and I do not envy those who have to do it, especially after seeing how worked up some people can become about topics like these.

This seems like a reasonable and easy-to-implement adjustment to warriors that would address their current state. Good idea, Chaith Gauge.

The way warriors are designed in this game and many others, is to be a good introductory class. This says nothing about skill ceiling, only skill floor. In their current state, warriors are actually serving this purpose well. New players can enter into the game, equip themselves with strong yet easy-to-use skills like Healing Signet, Berserker’s Stance, Endure Pain etc. and perform well. This creates a problem, however, when such low-skill, high power abilities do not lose effectiveness as the player progresses into areas of the game that require more skill.

Here is a perfect example:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391

but i enjoy playing a warrior, in sPvP (hotjoin 8 vs 8 whee) / PvE / WvW
previously i was playing a mesmer in sPvP, then a thief for a short while. then i reverted back to playing warrior in sPvP. i did not use healing signet though. i used the errr mending which heals for a bit and removes some conditions.
after i learned that healing signet was balanced, i used healing signet for my warrior in sPvP again. i felt so much happier! died less, still die sometimes unlike last time, died a lot. my warrior is able to sustain much better now. he is not god like and will still die. just doing better than last time.

This is a case of an “inexperienced” player who, at first, is doing ok. Nothing special. But then, he builds a certain way or equips a certain skill, performs better, has more fun (plays more as a result) and ultimately attributes his success to an increase in skill because of increased time played. Anyone who says otherwise, according to this player, is having a L2P issue. After all, that’s what he thinks he overcame himself. Either that or he has the insight to see from where his increased ability to perform is derived (Healing Signet) and fears for it being taken away.

If you have not seen it yet, I am essentially reiterating this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6fVHZFjnmA#t=3m02s

Healing Signet, passive immunity builds are the quintessential definition of “FOO” strategies. They need to remain good, but become sub-optimal when players become skilled. When we see every warrior running around with these skills with little consequence at higher levels of play, it is apparent something is wrong. If you cannont recognize that, I’m afraid you are delusional.

From what I understand, top warriors desperately want the opportunity for skilled play. They constantly refer back to the good ol’ days of frenzy greatsword builds (ie. high risk, high reward play). The fact of the matter is, it is not rewarding to play as nor fun to play against an unstoppable force who kills you if it hits you once. Do not even begin to say that warriors become useless and easy kills after their immunities expire. Even at their point of “every skill on cooldown”, they are more mobile, deal more damage, and are more tanky than many classes when in the same situation.

Fixing this is not as simple as “nerf ____ by 20%” or “bring everything else warriors have up to snuff”. Warriors need to be given strong, active use skills that excel when used by a skillful player. It is a tough job and I do not envy those who have to do it, especially after seeing how worked up some people can become about topics like these.

Dagins.5163

I want to have these rocket jumps and leaps available on my thief, as we have only ugly restricted and extremly unreliable shadowsteps.

Maybe you chose the wrong class…lol.

Also, Josh, if you are still here:

SuddenGenius.8779

TF2 Rocket Jumping

Dagins.5163

Devs, plz.

runeblade.7514

Did Anet increase the distance for some of these?

I cannot get anywhere close to the “engineer clubhouse” in raid of the capricorn.

The Engineer Clubhouse is pretty exclusive… :P

Are you cancelling the jump mid air? It lets you go further. Alternatively, you could try taking the increased Elixir Gun trait in Firearms if it helps (though you don’t need it for any of the jumps in the video).

Haha, I just posted a video on this sort of stuff for engineers:

Watch the Video Here

Thanks Glad you enjoyed it.

Blizt.3086

That was very interesting, thanks for sharing.

Although I don’t think using these trick in tPvP would be a good idea, likely getting reported or whatnot, quite a shame :/

Yeah…certain ones I wouldn’t use in rated PvP. Still fun to use them in casual PvP though! Also, build info in case anyone was wondering: Build

Hi everyone!

On just about every map, I have a few tricks that I use for fun and I thought I would share them with my fellow engineers. In the video, I cover five maps: Forest of Niflhel, Raid on the Capricorn, Spirit Watch, Skyhammer, and Battle of Khylo. The other maps are surprisingly tight and were not too interesting in my opinion. Feel free to share any tips or tricks you have found!

Watch the Video Here

~Woodstock

coglin

Know troll by who? Where is his troll level registered? I have to ask, because I do not know him to be a troll. I mean, for all we know, he stole your girlfriend in high school and your holding a grudge.

As well, you do have a history of making claims about what “top” teams do that prove to be inaccurate. If your that in tune with what the top teams do, I am curious, how many of the top 25 teams have engineer? Who officially ranks these teams in the top 25? What roles do their engies play?

NevirSayDie is one of the most level-headed people I have ever seen on these forums. I would not call Lordrosicky a “troll”, but rather someone quick to play the OP card when it comes to certain things.

Why are you so defensive anyway? I am not sure how much trouble other engineers are having in PvP, but as Nevir said, engineers are in a good spot in PvP.

My Engineer

Mrbig.8019

You’ve literally understood nothing of what i said.

I’m not going to spend time re-iterating what others have said and you’ve failed to counter. Your argument is beyond simple to the point it’s laughable. Forgive me if there’s some facet of actual insight nestled within that I missed after I discarded this thread among the others that won’t be taken seriously by Anet.

Engies are good in everything, VERY GOOD in everything.

Mrbig.8019

But they have too much.

Mrbig.8019

I don’t think they should be nerfed since they have so many tools it’s fantastic.

Mrbig.8019

So they should be nerfed in a way or another, because they simply have TOO MUCH.

Mrbig.8019

But still they’re so good at everything

Mrbig.8019

Currently engies are really good in everything.

Mrbig.8019

They basically offer everything other classes do

And my favorite, because you bolded it with such conviction:

Simply because engi has the highest skill cap, it doesn’t mean it should be SO MUCH considerably better than other professions, otherwise let’s just all play engi and who cares.

Yes, do that. I challenge you. Play the least-played, highest skill cap class who is so much better than other professions at…oh, what was the word?

everything

and become the best player in the game. Your posts might have some weight behind them then.

Let’s list everything a jack-of-all-trades class has and pretend they can do it all at once.

Yeah, no. This thread is complete garbage and sounds more like a learn to play issue. At least spell “strong” right if you want to be taken seriously. These “X class is OP” threads only seem to draw those who refuse to admit loss based on skill or those so adamantly opposed (usually said class) they seem biased.

Apart from turrets and some gadgets, I would say most utilities available to engineers are viable in PvP right now (this includes the Flamethrower). We have the most build diversity I’ve seen since the start of the game. So, don’t restrict yourself to things others have deemed viable, play what you find enjoyable (especially while leveling).

Some advice though: 90% of the time, auto-attacking with the flamethrower is the wrong thing to do. This is actually a general rule for kit engineers— a consequence of our comparably bad auto-attacks and access to many short cooldown weapon/kit skills.

The engineer training NPC in the Heart of the Mists now casts the Elementalist downed state #3 when downed. Haha

Just wanted to point out that grenades hardly ever hit on the base doors on the Legacy of Foefire map. Used to be fine last patch.