Guild Wars 2

still needs more.

Strongly agreed, shadow stepping is just too addicting.

Might stacks on stealth is not a problem in stealth trait. Many classes can maintain perma 15 stacks of might.

Mathias.9657:

I never said anything was OP. L2read… all I said was SA isn’t and DA gives you perma weakness/poison with shortbow and that alone gives you good survival with glancing blows. It’s how I can run in on full GC in pve and not die in seconds. Poison field will cover most of small points and can catch a whole group. You are nearly halving their damage and forcing condition removals. It can also be used in stealth without getting revealed.

Learn your class… again, SA is not overpowered. It’s just that our survival out of stealth is UNDERpowered aside from troll dodge build. What you’re missing about poison btw is that our field pulses and applies tons of weakness/poison through out the duration. Add to that the missile combo finisher from autoattack and yea that’s pretty permanent until they remove it.

You posted your opinion of why you think Stealth trait isn’t OP right? yes, check.
Then you posted about DA weakness trait w/ bow poison field and giving it praises stating, “This is yet another WvW complaint, and don’t underestimate the incredibly useful AoE perma-weakness you get in DA line using shortbow.” One would think that when someone defends why something is not so, they would then lead someone to think about something else and use that as a scapegoat.

So this is how i translated your first post. “STEALTH IS NOT OP, IN FACTTTTTT BOW SPAMMING POISON WITH WEAKNESS IS!” Indirectly implying that is.

Lets get back to your quote again. “This is yet another WvW complaint, and don’t underestimate the incredibly useful AoE perma-weakness you get in DA line using shortbow.” So you Clearly implied this in wvwvw (some form of PVP). But why are you talking about this technique in PVE surroundings now? Honestly your whole argument has been disregarded the second you talked about PVE. Learn to categorize your subjects please.

People don’t care about stealth because it doesn’t affect them negatively in pve.
People care about stealth when it does in pvp. And when you look into it, some traits under stealth is just “omfgwtfunbelievable”

Oh and btw, I am learning my class, it’s always amazing how much you can learn even though you think you’ve learned all there is to it. dodge/evading is not troll, stealth is. You even got that part wrong. :9

Thieves discussing among themselves the OPness of stealth. <3

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/IMO-shadow-arts-trait-line-is-way-op/first#post2065990

Mathias.9657:

bladie.5084:

Mathias.9657:

I disagree completely. SA is mostly for survival, I definitely don’t take it for the epic damage you think it has lol. yeah I’m going to waste time chaining a few cloak and daggers while someone is capping a point because I have all the time in the world for my ‘sustain’ right? No… just no. This is yet another WvW complaint, and don’t underestimate the incredibly useful AoE perma-weakness you get in DA line using shortbow.

Spamming poison field just to get a 3 sec weakness is not op and it’s not perma. You’re sacrificing initiative, putting yourself in danger in close range, and have very inefficient DPS to poison and weak.

This is not a complaint, it’s a fact. stealth trait is OP. You are basically rewarded everything for stealthing. In and out combat, you can still perma stealth.

Mathias.9657:

I would imagine you should know how a thief works since you apparently main one?

Backstab is not OP, Stealth skill itself is balanced. But the whole stealth trait is OP. Truth.

Lol you clearly haven’t used a shortbow in DA line before… 3 seconds? Wow, not even gonna waste my time informing you.

You don’t need to because I wouldn’t waste my time traiting in DA line when there are better traits to invest in. It’s not OP and I’m going to tell you why. People don’t complain about it. Simple as that.

swinsk.6410:

bladie.5084:

Mathias.9657:

I disagree completely. SA is mostly for survival, I definitely don’t take it for the epic damage you think it has lol. yeah I’m going to waste time chaining a few cloak and daggers while someone is capping a point because I have all the time in the world for my ‘sustain’ right? No… just no. This is yet another WvW complaint, and don’t underestimate the incredibly useful AoE perma-weakness you get in DA line using shortbow.

I would imagine you should know how a thief works since you apparently main one?

Spamming poison field just to get a 3 sec weakness is not op and it’s not perma. You’re sacrificing initiative, putting yourself in danger in close range, and have very inefficient DPS to poison and weak.

This is not a complaint, it’s a fact. stealth trait is OP. You are basically rewarded everything for stealthing. In and out combat, you can still perma stealth.

Then how do you suppose a thief sustains himself in a fight without stealth?

Where would you put our health regen/condi removal then?

This thread is dumb.

This thread is not dumb.
What about rewarding thieves for not stealthing?
1. Like said before, 3 secs revealed buff regardless if you hit or didn’t hit someone.
2. the condi trait can stay.
3. nerf the regen slightly from regen while in stealth.
4. taking 10/15% burst dmg while in stealth reveals you.
5. in order to balance #4 and #1, take Last refuge out and put in fleet shadow, move 50% faster while in stealth.
6. Infusion of Shadow cooldown 5 seconds.
the list can go on and on.~~

Mathias.9657:

I disagree completely. SA is mostly for survival, I definitely don’t take it for the epic damage you think it has lol. yeah I’m going to waste time chaining a few cloak and daggers while someone is capping a point because I have all the time in the world for my ‘sustain’ right? No… just no. This is yet another WvW complaint, and don’t underestimate the incredibly useful AoE perma-weakness you get in DA line using shortbow.

Spamming poison field just to get a 3 sec weakness is not op and it’s not perma. You’re sacrificing initiative, putting yourself in danger in close range, and have very inefficient DPS to poison and weak.

This is not a complaint, it’s a fact. stealth trait is OP. You are basically rewarded everything for stealthing. In and out combat, you can still perma stealth.

Mathias.9657:

I would imagine you should know how a thief works since you apparently main one?

Backstab is not OP, Stealth skill itself is balanced. But the whole stealth trait is OP. Truth.

I was going to say…, “WELL U PULL DOWN UR PANTS AND U LET IT UNLOAD”… but yeah nice vid

p/p base dmg as a whole should be buffed by at least 5%. weilding p/p shoul dhave a double attack animation. A double attack will let you apply bleeds just as fast as p/d due to the lack of access to cnd.

Vital shot is just a horrible skill design. You should take it off and put in a completely new skill w/ mobility and survivability w/ some CC and mediocre dmg. ie: Chains aoe immobolize enemies and evades back 600 range while unloading 5 rounds. Or something like that.

I have a better idea, instead of over exaggerating your comments, why don’t you guys challenge the guy to a duel? Props for taking the time to make a vid though.

Just remember, when making a vid it takes time and effort into doing it. And the viewers take their time to watch it. Next time find some more competant players to duel against.

Jokes on him. But nevertheless you survived? That’s to be expected honestly, we’re thieves. Unless you’re doing a 1v5 enemy guild and one of them pop one on u. That’s the end!

Travlane.5948:

RedSpectrum.1975:

LightningBlaze.4913:

More likely this is because most thieves overuse the constant stealth mechanic in wvw.

But you can’t blame them, see how long you’ll last with an evasion build when a large group finds you.

gotta give a +1 here. evasion can “get by” in spvp but not really flourish anywhere . especially in the real wvw where big fights happen. a thief can take a camp with d/d or p/d or d/p ….s/d evade is hella hard if at all possible unless u CnD

-1. Evasion is viable. Been having it since prelaunch and I can tell you it’s more fast pace and the adrenaline rush flows in more naturally.

But in the end, it’s someone’s preference of what they prefer. Your preference is what makes you excel in the type of gameplay you choose.

Really good job man. +1

active: also increase critical damage by 10% HAR HAR HAR

Yggdrasil.7940:

Sword : Infiltrator’s strike/Shadow return

When using infiltrator’s strike (2 with sword) with no target selected, the skill allow players to Shadow Return from far more than the stated 1.200 range.
In fact, in flat ground, the range is almost unlimited : you can go as far as you can in the 15 sec duration of the return (I’ve gone far more than 3.000) and still you can use SR to return to your initial location.

I do not think it is “working as intended”, but I really expect a official response to make it clearer whether it is intended or not, and if that’s the case, maybe a tooltip correction.

working as intended, it’s been like day since prelaunch. The step that has a limit is shadowstep in utility.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infiltrator's_Strike
No limit

thief will now be hardcore mode. You get hit once, u die. (not even downed)

LordByron.8369:

Every post you made in this thread starts with completely false facts……..and you say you are here to ask for suggestion.

For that people may be led to believe you are here for other reasons….

I suggest you to inform more to have better discussions.

I never ask for advice, I look for them. That’s how I’ve always been. I look at other’s build and suggestions and test them myself and come up with my own build. If you look at my posts history you would see that I never ask for help in any classes including my main profession. I only stumbled upon this subject cuz a guildmate said it was pretty funny. And it is when you see players claiming eles dropped 4+5 ranks in mobility, their mobility is comparable to mesmers now, and they are completely uselss now. And if you back track on my posts, you’d see that I approve some tweakings of stealth.

LordByron.8369:

bladie.5084:

WvWvW is considered as PVE.

False

True. d/d eles are counter to every class. Anet sees the big picture, you obviously don’t.

I go onto the ele section for advice on how to make my ele because I recognize their usefulness in everything. I don’t look for ways to “counter” them. And I’m not a stealth build thief too.

LordByron.8369:

the stealth nerf was reverted on in www and pve….and not because traits or stuff in fact remained in PvP.

Mostly because seems devs cares too much of thieves.

Not to consider how both AIR and cantrips (mistform) have their own traitlines.

Nerfing RTL destroyed the last viable weaponset ecluding PvP bunkers that has no other place in the game (nor pve nor www).
Nerfing Mistform hit severely every build/weapon…..just to address a single issue.

But as i said many times…once they nerfed last counterbuild they will be forced to deal with thieves….

Now its their turn to get a major nerf….along with rangers….lets see if once again they will only nerf the other class….and leave the main offender untouched.

P.S. stealth as its now was unintended by devs….

WvWvW is considered as PVE.
Devs respond more often in the thief topic not because they value thieves more, it’s because they have more complaints there more. Anet has finally realized that most of the time it’s a learn to play issue. So they take the thief nerfing more carefully because they have done some injustice nerfing already because they “listened to the people”. Thieves get their monthly nerfs so you won’t have to worry about that. As for rangers Idk how you get the feeling they are OP but I don’t think they are going to get any major nerfs.

Mist form is finally working as it was intended. That was a fixed, not a nerf.
RTL if used properly, will still grant you a 20 second cooldown. the buggy 1550 range was finally fixed to the original range 1200.

LordByron.8369:

U missed tank thief and the permavigor/energy thief it seems….

But i know what is the point…

Btw consider rtl+mistform is to D/D what stealth is to thief….think what would happen if they made for you impossible to use skills while stealthed and nerfed 250% duration with some mobility nerfs along them.

You could have a picture of what they did.

You deff don’t know what you’re talking about. You are comparing a weapon skill and a utility against a totally different gameplay. Did you know that there’s a whole trait line for stealth? That’s how important stealth is for a thief. The 3 seconds stealth was reverted because it destroyed a whole traitline and the ability to stealth itself efficiently. this affected 98% of the thief community.

Stealth does need a nerf, but that was the wrong directions Anet took it to, and so they realized it. So they reverted it only in pve.

bs/HS is the burst.
flanking and larc strike is awesome too

Dristig.9678:

Lol @ Stealth being optional. So, which is it:

A) You don’t play Thief.
B) You’re a moron.
C) You’re trolling.

D) All of the above.

No seriously. Eles, go back and read your posts. When you see kitten like, “Now an ele’s mobility is comparible to a mesmers” or… “We are now 4/5th most mobile class in game” or… “We are completely useless in pvp” Then you KNOWwwwwww (emphasize ftw) that’s some bullkitten.

dunno what to say except it’ll increase your gameplay as a thief? That’s if you accept it, and learn the mechanism of it, and prevail.

Lets admit it though GW2’s got one of the best and op stealthing system ever. just sayin.

Kraggy.4169:

No, what he’s clearly saying from what I see is that those first two posts are entirely typical of the hostility PVP breeds in some of those who inhabit the PVP sections of all MMOs that have PVP in them, and which puts off a good number of players who aren’t as aggressive as those posters clearly are.

I don’t PVP, I never PVP, because of that sort of aggressive attitude, and I’m far from being alone: use of the term ‘carebear’ says it all, I want nothing to do with anyone who uses such a condescending term.

Nah man, generalizing once again. I can tell you that during the times of a wvwvw that a pvp community has to bond together to survive really brings the best out of them. Not all server has a positive attitude and ur going to see stuff you don’t like but hey, that’s the reality of what happens when players really want to win. And if that’s the reason you don’t like to pvp then that’s honestly your loss.

That being said, PVE isn’t really all about glits and glam as well. the discrimination of lvls, gears, class and knowledge of the content. It gets pretty bad as well. and I’m sure everyone has their taste of being discriminated in pve content whether in GW2 or another MMO.

That’s what makes your legendary even more special. Your guild can never always be there, it’s your duty to bond with other pvp players and get the crowd moving. That’s how it was in Ferguson’s Crossing all the time.

Sinaya.4201:

I’m deeply shocked and appalled about the general hostility within this part of the community.

I’ll be happy to let this thread die at this point. I got my concern for other players across, got my Staff answer, and opened my eyes a bit about how little I have in common with many fellow WvW players.

Hope to see you on the battlefield.

That’s why you’re prolly being called a care bear. Nobody’s being hostile, or flaming you at all. As stated before your arguments are pretty biased and then when you don’t get what you want to hear, you turn yourself to some sort of a victim.

bravoart.5308:

SvenskNavi.9378:

Yes, let’s hear another post about how legendaries need to be easier to get.

Valik Shin.9027:

You don’t like too bad. This is wvw its a form of pvp not some place for all the carebear pve players to hang out

Make a well thought out post on the WvW forums, first two replies shows you exactly why most casual PvE players don’t want to enter WvW.

So you’re taking the first two comments and generalizing the rest of the communities? So if 2 foreigners spoke badly and belittled you and your people are you going to forever dislike them and their whole community? Very very narrowed minded.

I remembered some of our guildmates needed world completion cuz they just felt like getting it. But due to the hardships of being #3, we didn’t have the luxury and they even contemplated switching servers to get the world completion. Switching world isn’t just betrayal to our server, but to our guild as well and thoughts like those are not tolerated. But that being said sympathy and feelings of inferiority showed and helped us became a stronger guild. We rallied everyone, and went on a expedition to get everyone in guild who wanted world completion to get their legendaries. We killed, we looted, and destroyed everything infront of us. Wasted ridiculous amounts of gold for all those golems and misc weapon seiges and took everything we wanted to. We gained the respect of our server, role played the ideas that Anet had for players who seeked their legendaries, some of our pve guys were respected by pvp players for throwing it down in wvwvw, and in the end some of us made our legendaries.

If you’re not willing to get your guild to participate in tower seiging, Not willing to play the hard times w/ your pvp community and not willing to invest time to help take that tower, why should you deserve a legendary?

This is not coming from a pvp player to a pve player, this is coming from a person to another person: IF YOU WANNA TAKE THE EASY ROUTE AND WAIT FOR SHlT TO HAPPEN SO U CAN GET IT IN THEN YOU BETTER THINK TWICE. MAN UP, STOP CRYING, AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT INSTEAD OF MAKING USELESS POSTS LIKE THESE. IF YOU CAN’T TAKE THAT TOWER, CAN’T GAIN RESPECT OF OTHER PLAYERS AND RALLY THEM TO CONQUER, THEN GTFOUTTA HERE WITH OWNING A LEGENDARY. Cuz then you’d just be a fake legend. An anounymous money spender or something along the line. Wake up, and plan for your legendary. Because TRUST me, if you do it the right way… The weapon is not the legendary, but the character, the name and the player behind the screen becomes the legend… Which imo is the ulitimate reward. That’s why we pvpers pvp, that’s why we sit for hours and hours to wvww. It’s to get that recognition. We don’t do it to look cute, we dont do it for the money, we do it for respect. My guildmates are lvl 80 running around with 10-20 gold only. It tells a lot (other from them being poor).

Hello. I have a very big problem atm as it’s become even more obvious that infiltrator’s strike on sword main hand has become even more buggy and unplayable. Being a sword user since Prelaunch, the skill was bug-free.. But as new patches has been implemented, the skill has become more and more buggy and noticeable (especially in that epic moment of warfare).

The previous bugs has been ignored because it wasn’t such a big deal but the bugs I’ve recently discovered (quickly since the patch) has been game breaking and shattering the mobility and adrenaline rush I get when doing WvWvW.

Some of the bugs are…
1. When activating infiltrator’s strike too fast, the skill will not work.
a. If it does work, you don’t get the shadow return option.
2. When Activating Infiltrator’s strike then using steal as a follow up, the shadow return option gets cancelled if your steal doesn’t activate due to the target not being in your range. (this completely kills me……)

3. Some Immobilize skills glitches and lag my character so bad that I cannot shadow return back even with full initiatives and having the shadow return animation in my buff screen. A perfect example is a Ranger’s Elite [Entangle]

Hello. I have a very big problem atm as it’s become even more obvious that infiltrator’s strike on sword main hand has become even more buggy and unplayable. Being a sword user since Prelaunch, the skill was bug-free.. But as new patches has been implemented, the skill has become more and more buggy and noticeable (especially in that epic moment of warfare).

The previous bugs has been ignored because it wasn’t such a big deal but the bugs I’ve recently discovered (quickly since the patch) has been game breaking and shattering the mobility and adrenaline rush I get when doing WvWvW.

Some of the bugs are…
1. When activating infiltrator’s strike too fast, the skill will not work.
a. If it does work, you don’t get the shadow return option.
2. When Activating Infiltrator’s strike then using steal as a follow up, the shadow return option gets cancelled if your steal doesn’t activate due to the target not being in your range. (this completely kills me……)

3. Some Immobilize skills glitches and lag my character so bad that I cannot shadow return back even with full initiatives and having the shadow return animation in my buff screen. A perfect example is a Ranger’s Elite [Entangle]

Which makes the skill itself a bad design imo. It’s such a bitter sweet skill. D/P sets are set to go and are really good. While the other two are lacking DPS. So from a D/P side, they can exempt the no dps on HS.

Mighty Ice Arrow.9268:

To Anet devs.
Hope you are happy, everyone discussing how unbalanced the different professions are.
You are so far away from the guys that have made GW1. I can’t recognize the previous quality anymore.

Me personally as a thief, it didnt really affect me. I do personally think they shouldn’t have attacked our steal skill and just go and nerf backstab directly. That being said, im pretty sure most thieves are happy with the 3 secs reverted.

Dasorine.1964:

the lack of damage on head shot is only really an issue if your trying to use it as a burst/damage skill, which is silly.

Sure dancing daggers does more damage but it also does a generally less powerful condition as well.

Though namewise something that doesn’t make people think of a sniper headshotting would be nice, perhaps we should steal the name “concussion shot” from rangers

spamming HS is awesome for assisting and trolling but I generally use it as it should be intended, which is being a combo finisher. I wouldn’t want OP dmg such as HSeeker, formal steal mug, or C+D, but a very average dmg count to add onto my dps. Instead I’d get 800 crit.

MrForz.1953:

bladie.5084:

And my defense to that is that it’s only fair or normal if someone wants to seek out that person who /taunted or killed them out of profession descrimination and return the favor. Cuz I sure as heII do the same if others do it first. The cycle continues~~ it’s a game, if u cant take the heat then dont touch it.

This, exactly, go tell him that.

Lol. Well played, sir. I on the other hand, embrace being hated.

Gwalchgwn.1659:

bladie.5084:

Gwalchgwn.1659:

bladie.5084:

timecookie.8570:

After you headshot, you should have you target automatically defeated. Just common sense.

So freaken true. They should give headshot at least SOME damage.. lol… what a fail skill design….

I love the HS design though. Great interrupt spammable skill. Giving it more damage would make it too strong imo.

Imo they should just change the name of the skill because seriously. Headshot = dead

I wouldn’t quite say it’s spammable. The thing about HS is that it has no dmg whatsoever.. If you compare it to Dancing Dagger, Headshot becomes quite inferior and not viable at all imo. That’s when you know HS needs a buff. And plus it’s also a combo finisher, why not give it at least SOME damage to actually make the skill worth of it’s skill’s name?

In a 2v2, it’s enough to make the bunker ele die (if you are coordinating with your partner). It could use a small buff, but the damage should still be low since it’s an utility skill. It should be used pure for the interruption. Great skill for healing denial.

You have a great comeback, but that’s really situational.
Idk, HS is debateable. I use HS when it really matters such as when they are nearly dead and they are about to heal (like you stated) but i interrupt them. And when the battle is so intense, you’ve wasted ur last inits on HS. and that HS is pretty useless when they’re running away while trying to heal. Sure, you interrupted them, but they are still running away from you and now you can’t catch them as fast as you can think you can. Half the situations, i Do manage to down them with S/B but the other half, if they’re actually decent, my half decent S/B dmg shouldnt be enough to kill them. So as a plead, I believe HS needs a slight buff in Dmg. I run with 3k attack power, 42% crit chance w/ 57-67%? additional crit dmg, and the highest HS dmg i’ve ever seen was 800 critical.. lol. Not viable against skilled players in most then half the situations imo (esp that ele).
I’d be perfectly fine w/ 3 init cost though.

Tempest Darqmane.4862:

I’ll speak for myself, thank you very much.

I know you can (and no i dont know this person) but i know how you feel.

MrForz.1953:

bladie.5084:

It means he’s a human being as well.

It also means he shouldn’t be surprised that he doesn’t collect flowers and laurels from the ennemies stomping him. When you want to be a jerk, you assume it.

I’m pretty sure he understands the repercussion when being a jerk. That being said, he stated even without being a jerk, he gets hated on neways.

And my defense to that is that it’s only fair or normal if someone wants to seek out that person who /taunted or killed them out of profession descrimination and return the favor. Cuz I sure as heII do the same if others do it first. The cycle continues~~ it’s a game, if u cant take the heat then dont touch it.

All i see is a bunch of mesmers bltching and moaning because they aren’t as OP as they used to be. Don’t worry guys, I as a nerfed thief with a more useless build, can understand your pain. And guess what? I’m still using it to kill. How awesome is that? Maybe you guys can still kill too. Just maybe, if the crying stops and you back to the drawing boards.

selan.8354:

bladie.5084:

Henrik.7560:

Before: 1# Thief (as always) #2 Mesmer (glamour builds) #3 Elementallist (superior AoE)

After: 1# Thief (still haven’t nerfed heartseeker -.- ) #2 Guardian (superior healing) #3 Mesmer (badly nerfed)

Why it changed:
Thieves are still overpowered and will stay because they denny that heartseeker spammers are completely easy to counter (steal- 3k heartseeker- 3k, 4k, 6k, 6k), apparently isnt overpowered. The steal nerf was good, but that other skills are far too powerful. Cloak and Dagger should have a nerf too, its a source of stealth, enemy vulnerability, AND deals 6k damage on crits.
Mesmers had a HUGE nerf which ruined every confusion build as of its damage is crap now, losing their zerg popularity.
Elementallist had a HUGE nerf as well which stuff RTL up for zerg travel, and skills while in mist form and many other things.

lol are you serious? Confusion was never a problem for me but it was justifiable why it needed nerf. Eles NEEDED a nerf imo. and i don’t think this is enough to hurt them that much. They still have the best burst heals and consistence in dmg and surviving along with mobility. And I do agree with you that thieves need another c+d nerf because in truth, it’s suppose to be a survibility skill.

That being said thieves, mesmers and eles are still top 3. lol. I’m not going to give them their rank because their classes are situational that makes them outshine each other.

no mesmers are only needed for portals and the nerf of 50 per cent wasnt needed. it nerfed us to kitten!i am up now as i used condition builds and if it needed a nerf 15-25 percent would have done the trick

I’m still not convinced. The mesmers are still killing w/ confusions and misc conditions. Most of their utilities are just so useful to pvp. they offer the most support and gameplay change than thieves and eles. Like I said earlier each class has their situational moments.

MrForz.1953:

Tempest Darqmane.4862:

Some of us have a Thief: The Dark Project wet fantasy too tyvm.

As for the thief hate… I get it a lot myself, even without acting like a jerk.

When the laughs and dances come out, the gloves come off and I be trollin’.

Does it mean you generally act like a jerk?

It means he’s a human being as well.

Henrik.7560:

Before: 1# Thief (as always) #2 Mesmer (glamour builds) #3 Elementallist (superior AoE)

After: 1# Thief (still haven’t nerfed heartseeker -.- ) #2 Guardian (superior healing) #3 Mesmer (badly nerfed)

Why it changed:
Thieves are still overpowered and will stay because they denny that heartseeker spammers are completely easy to counter (steal- 3k heartseeker- 3k, 4k, 6k, 6k), apparently isnt overpowered. The steal nerf was good, but that other skills are far too powerful. Cloak and Dagger should have a nerf too, its a source of stealth, enemy vulnerability, AND deals 6k damage on crits.
Mesmers had a HUGE nerf which ruined every confusion build as of its damage is crap now, losing their zerg popularity.
Elementallist had a HUGE nerf as well which stuff RTL up for zerg travel, and skills while in mist form and many other things.

lol are you serious? Confusion was never a problem for me but it was justifiable why it needed nerf. Eles NEEDED a nerf imo. and i don’t think this is enough to hurt them that much. They still have the best burst heals and consistence in dmg and surviving along with mobility. And I do agree with you that thieves need another c+d nerf because in truth, it’s suppose to be a survibility skill.

That being said thieves, mesmers and eles are still top 3. lol. I’m not going to give them their rank because their classes are situational that makes them outshine each other.

Headshot needs a slight dmg buff.

Gwalchgwn.1659:

bladie.5084:

timecookie.8570:

After you headshot, you should have you target automatically defeated. Just common sense.

So freaken true. They should give headshot at least SOME damage.. lol… what a fail skill design….

I love the HS design though. Great interrupt spammable skill. Giving it more damage would make it too strong imo.

Imo they should just change the name of the skill because seriously. Headshot = dead

I wouldn’t quite say it’s spammable. The thing about HS is that it has no dmg whatsoever.. If you compare it to Dancing Dagger, Headshot becomes quite inferior and not viable at all imo. That’s when you know HS needs a buff. And plus it’s also a combo finisher, why not give it at least SOME damage to actually make the skill worth of it’s skill’s name?

i dont understand how stealth gets reverted pve wise, but pw doesnt get reverted. You have 90+% of thieves cry for it and they do it. But when you have a legit reason to revert PW dmg, no one wants to take the effort into reverting it. The P/W nerf loses it’s purpose the day when haste was nerfed. Can we get an ANET staff to answer this question please? Cuz the “thief and it’s gameplay” topic sucks so much and it’s not worth posting there.

timecookie.8570:

After you headshot, you should have you target automatically defeated. Just common sense.

So freaken true. They should give headshot at least SOME damage.. lol… what a fail skill design….

Been S/D and S/P user since prelaunch. d/d are inferior ~~ (ikittennow how to play sword main)

No point in having an argument with those who just wants to hear what they wanna hear. So without further ado, thieves are OP, end of conversation.

Tempest Darqmane.4862:

I dont understand the cloak & dagger notes. Is it implying that it will always crit if you trait hidden killer? O.o

yes so if you traited for it, your c+d will always crit if landed.

Pretty sad no buffs to Pistols and s/p :9
and still no real nerfs to backstab setup. lol.

Julie Yann.5379:

I hate thieves for one reason, they keep running away before I can kill them. Very annoying.

i hate thieves and eles equally.

Pretty unique build. Not much of a fan in traps though as i whole heartedly believe they are just too underpowered. 3 utilities i can suggest is Roll for init, shadow step, and caltrops to make the build more viable and actually able to assist you to kill people (if you have to). I’ve actually been a non stealthed thief (P/W lol) and still is since prelauched. I tested the traps and really really wanted to like them.. but they are just kinda bad…

Rottaran Owain.6789:

No one is going to point out that apparently his pistol whips hit for 13k against this opponent?

Yeah, I’m calling frenzy.

Steal + P/W. to make it sound a lil realistic, but the true meaning is that dam, glassy as fk. 2 P/W for sure. AND it’s nerfed too.

EDIT: lol i take that back. yeah, 1 steal and 1 P/W will drop him. 11k HP with d/d, 13k HP with sb.