Guild Wars 2

salluks.6017:

I have played extensively in both NA and EU. Most of the replies here are right.

NA plays mostly for PPT and rarely for fights.. there are few chances where u get good fights. For example last week match between Sor/TC/SOS. Sor had won the match by the time the weekend was over. So TC being good sports also played only for fights instead oftaking a week off. In Eu, there are always fights and ppt.has little relevance.

Na has a lot of players 24/7 . When we were on desolation. There were many times when I was practically the only person on the map. But Na always has ppl around.

I think NA blobs more. But then I usually face ATM/Merc who are known to run with the whole map when they are online. EU only has VS that blobs to such exent.

The voicecoms are a lot more active in NA . I dunno only if sor is like that or most of.Na
Militia are better in Na. I still get surprised when the commander says – ignore this sentry, then nobody hits it. In eu pugs tend to do what they want.

A lot of forum warriors and drama queens on NA. Most take it too personally and guilds often accuse and insult.other guilds. Very few people tend to respect others.
In EU, guilds respect each other a lot and are often good friend of each other.
A lot less drama in eu and forum warriors very few.

This is the most accurate description thus far. The others are pretty biased.
—There is something you can clear though. N/A blobs more because they have higher populations. But Whenever EU has the chance to, they’ll definitely blob like crazy as well. Servers comment on Viz blobbing all the time, but as soon as they have the numbers, they do it back.

The skills of guild or player wise are pretty even. You get the great, and the bad (simple as that). Regarding with EU having the best strategies, I disagree there. And here’s why: N/A has more population it’s covered from every country that plays it, even EU. When you have such a large community from different background and that unique diversity, great things are bound to happen. And N/A servers are about that.

What I can’t stand from N/A servers are the ridiculous amount of insecure-egocentric sore losers/winners. On a respectful level from 1-10 (10 being worst) EU’s gotta be prolly… 5.. while N/A is up there in the 7-8 1/2 (and that’s being nice).

DevonCarver.5370:

The main reason is simply that at the point that outmanned does that, it encourages servers to have fewer players on to take advantage of the stat boost. That, in turn, will cause people to yell at other players for logging on and taking away the buff.

Excuse my manners but this is a very ignorant view of WvWvW. Does anyone in Anet actually play their own game?

I for one, go to outmanned maps and take advantage of the outmanned buff. With xp booster, foods and outmanned, I can efficiently get 3 levels an hour. Others and I have basically, defeat the purpose of even doing WvWvW.

The reality is that no one wants to go to an outmanned map and have their @sses handed to them. So the current outmanned pve buff doesn’t help the current state at all.

Hickeroar.9734:

Dual.8953:

Hickeroar.9734:

Yocairo.4257:

Thief’s perspective here:
IMO it’s justified to stealth stomp in this meta game, and for one good reason. I suggest everyone tries to make a thief and finish off a player without stealth. You will realize half the time a player can actually down you if you have +-5k hp left after a fight, not to forget if he has a friend and you DON’T stealthstomp him, you are dead, simple as that.

Take this any way you like, whether stealth is OP or not, without it thieves would be like a turtle without a shell. There would need to be a complete class haul over for it to even work, peace

Thieves are a medium armor class sharing the same health pool as eles and guardians.

Eles, in light armor, are forced to spike people without the aid of stealth. Why do thieves get a break when their armor value is better?

Don’t run glass, and you have nothing to worry about.

Because Ele’s can bunker, have all the heals, access to aoe burning and bleeds, ect. Why even stomp when you can dps the opponent down just as fast while keeping your guard up? Also, even in Knight’s Armour Thieves are still squishy, and Soldier’s Thieves have trouble just plain killing.

You do realize that bunker eles really don’t deal that much damage, right? They win by wearing the enemy down over time.

And how does an ele wear the enemy down over time? Being rewarded with rotation of attunement and speccing into the ultimate tanking/healing/condition removing ele with a bundance of boons. And don’t forget their graceful up to par, in combat mobility as well.

Your 2nd post defeats your 1st post.

Thief community = one of a kind.

Infil strike/return a skill as a whole is 5 initiative (that’s a lot). Shadow Return is the 2nd part of infil strike and it DOES activate on will (with a duration). Spamming it would utterly destroy the thief itself. It’s about being efficient with it. Because the infil strike is a minor CC skill w/ below dps. What makes it shine is the teleportation on demand, return option, and break stun -1 condition removal. Shortening the duration on the timer would actually buff the infil strike (since the range on it has been fixed). It’ll give us more reasons to spam it even harder.

spamming is what makes the thief unique from other classes. If you have the initiatives, go for it! It’s how you efficiently and strategically use your skills w/ inits.

I’m not going to talk about #3 since you’ve talked about only infil strike.

ekimsfree.9406:

BTW, I use only S/D and have yet to run into any major issues with IS.

Ur either new to Sword Main Set or you’ve been using Infil Strike on a very basic level this whole time.

You.. Nvm.

When you’re doing that 1v1 and you’re downed, it’s basically over. Why cry about it? IF the duel was that close and the thief is about to die, wouldn’t it makes sense for him to kite your skills a few seconds or get out of ur range to heal and come back to stomp you? So that defeats the argument of 1v1 thief stomping.

So lets talk about thief vs 2-3+
First of all, The reality is that most thieves don’t use all three skills to stomp. (Blinding powder, stealth, teleport) Most of them have only 2 out of the 3.

You know what, scratch that. I can’t be arsed to teach other players how to play their professions.

Understand the thief, and ur own skills. Understand how your skills works. Know how and when to use a CC skill on a class that doesn’t have stability and invulnerbility.

Any forms of stomping is fair play. Because at the end of the day, everyone gets to taste their own medicine. You don’t like stomping? Take out downed system. It’s as easy as that.

TLDR: stop crying at a specific class because you’re too narrow minded to know how to use ur own profession.

And yeah, I am a thief. And yeah, I don’t stealth. I’m being completely serious.

If you’re a guardian and you’re used to kiting and being somewhat bunker/tanky w/ other options to healing, I think you’re best option is to actually go to the mesmer part. thieves that are successuful in kiting also are heavily traited into stealthing, and that’s not something you want (as you stated). Therefore, I honestly recommend you to go to the mesmer section.

i feel for ya. Shadow return has become the most unreliable skill ever. It tones down the fast pace of infil strike. So kitten sad.

the range is 1200 now. But the skill itself is SUPER buggy atm. You’ll know what I mean when you use it.

Sometimes you don’t get the return at all
Sometimes your return is only 100ish range.
If you use a skill back to back with it, and u pressed it too fast, u won’t get a return option.

My friend was battling on the bridge, he returned and he returned in the air. Lol he fell and died.. it was sad, infuriating, and hilarious

withdraw heals 20% more
Congrats, S/d has been buffed.
Steal/mug no longer crits and heals you everytime you mug (average 2k)
shadow return on infil strike has been “Fixed”

While I applaud you for admitting stealth is a bit EZ mode, making you visible while stealthed is not the way to go. With all due respect, it defeats the purpose of stealth itself. But yes, there needs to be changes within the shadow arts lines.

This is the problem: Dagger storm is a situational Elite in which there is a time to use it to maximize its potential. And when you use it, you have to strategize in when it is the perfect time, which area is best, and have utilities on standby to maximize your mobility while casting DS.

Now.. This is what you guys are expecting from DS: One hit button for autokilling everything and never die from using DS. WTH isn’t that a bit OP?

These ideas are a bit Silly. People can talk about how DS is easily countered, but I can talk about how other Elites are easily countered as well.

People haven’t stated that one of the main reasons why DS isn’t as strong as it used to be. That’s because in the beginning, Melee players used to run away everytime they see a thief use DS and ranged classes would hit from afar (lol). Now Players are getting smarter, they know what to do. It’s YOUR job to out think them. Isn’t that your job, as a thief?

Siva Mira.3546:

I guess some people just don’t get what I mean.

In what way did I sound like DS need damage buff?
Did I even suggest one?

this wasn’t directed towards you, this was directed towards to whomever thought DS needed a buff especially when Whirling wrath does much more. Read other’s post and you will understand.

Siva Mira.3546:

bladie.5084:

Because if you know how to use dagger storm properly, you wouldn’t need invul.

WAIT FOR IT… WAIT FOR IT….. this is not Dagger storm being bad, this is a L2P issue.

What exactly do I have to wait for? Can you please enlighten me?

It means learn how to use it.

randomfightfan.4091:

bladie.5084:

Because if you know how to use dagger storm properly, you wouldn’t need invul.

WAIT FOR IT… WAIT FOR IT….. this is not Dagger storm being bad, this is a L2P issue.

Normally I’d agree with this statement but something actually does need to be fixed with dagger storm. Currently, if you’re moving and casting, some projectiles will get through the reflect and blow you up. The biggest abusers of this tactic (hitting you with projectiles while you have a reflect of self-skill active) are Lupi and the little eles on grawl fractal. If you’re not standing perfectly still, you’re going to get blown up. It’s funny that this could be fixed if the radius to what projectiles you could reflect was increased, this issue would be gone and it’d be nothing more than a QoL buff. Making a reflect actually reflect would be nice.

You’re talking about fixing something.

Others are actually talking about an actual buff (which is uncalled for)
-Random 3secs invul.
- Unjustified Random dmg buff (because other skills can hit harder) — Just cuz certain skills hit harder doesn’t mean they are better.

So my answer to that is: They’re doing it wrong, L2P.
—Dagger storm is a force to be reckoned with, when done right.

Because if you know how to use dagger storm properly, you wouldn’t need invul.

WAIT FOR IT… WAIT FOR IT….. this is not Dagger storm being bad, this is a L2P issue.

Daecollo.9578:

bladie.5084:

Daecollo.9578:

Currently, Whirling Wrath does more damage then DS.

100b does more dmg then whirling wrath

Actually no it doesn’t.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Whirling_Wrath

The spin hits 7 times and throws 7 projectiles, for a total of 14 possible hits on a single target. Damage listed appears to be for all 7 spinning hits and 2 projectiles.
Disabling the “Melee attack assist” option in your settings, which prevents your character from moving into the hitbox of enemies, will allow you to use this skill from the inside of an enemy, hitting with both the melee attack and the projectiles resulting in a substantial increase in total damage to the target.

Its possible to bolster up that damage by another 894. So its really Damage (9x): 1,251 + 894 in projectiles, if you turn off melee thing, it goes up to 2145 (which is 115 more damage then 100b.) (Hundred Blades also takes 2.6x longer to cast.)

However, the damage only works if your standing right on top of your opponent.

It can create even more damage if you count in virtue procs/combo fields.

Back stab does more dmg and killshot does more damage. mind wrack does more dmg.

So because whirling wrath does more damage, dagger storm should be buffed? This is what you’re implying, right?

Daecollo.9578:

Currently, Whirling Wrath does more damage then DS.

100b does more dmg then whirling wrath

ur either too glassy or you don’t know how to compliment and use Dagger Storm. It’s Balanced and a pretty awesome Elite.

Doomdesire.9365:

I’m sure you could probably land a 35K one given that you use full zerker ascended, a might stacking build via signets, bloodlust, force, and impact sigils(after using basilik) on a low level, naked warrior with frenzy.

basilisk is still considered stone but can be stun break.

The reality of it all.~

S/D combo system was buffed because the battle system was too bugged and was beyond repairing. So it was given a new look.

P/W shouldn’t be split like S/D because it’s not broken. The idea is nice really, but it’s not helping the original problem P/W has (fix old problems before thinking about new buffs) That way, your vision is more clear if a new buff should be implemented.

P/W shouldn’t have lesser strikes/slashes. While I dream about this, players will just abuse this fact and go back to haste p/w. Wouldn’t that suck? True perma stunned P/Wing with no skills needed.

There are two problems that Pistol whip has: 1. It needs a damage buff since Haste has been nerfed. I really do wish it would go back to 15% but haste is not gone from the game.. So i would realisitically bargain for a 10% dmg rebuff.

2. Would have to be that the skill cast for the P/W skill is alright.. But my problem is that the evade doesn’t activate instantly the pistol whip is casted.. This really sucks when you’re face tanking and you don’t have luxurious Boons that help you survive.

Looks like someone got it handled to them… And it rhymes with “Grape”

IM IN LOVE IT’S A BEAUTIFUL DAY
IM IN LOVE IT’S A BEAITUFUL WAY
I DONT CARE WHAT THE WEATHER MAN SAYS
IT’S A BEAUTIFUL DAY

Iavra.8510:

3. Since last refuge is such a hindrance, take it out and replace it with fleet shadow.

Hmm, i don’t think this is such a great idea. Thief needs some incentives to invest in other traitlines besides Shadow Arts.

I think so, and here’s why: fleet shadow belongs in the shadow traits to stay relevant with the whole stealth concept. Anet promised more mobility, why not start off with this? It’s the whole package, taking out Last Refuge which harmed most thieves instead of helping.

This idea would work perfect w/ “Incoming dmg reveals”. It gives you that mobility under stealth on default to ACTUALLY be good instead of ez mode.

You can’t nerf actual skills within the weaponset because if you do so, this will not just affect D/P, but S/P and P/P as well. So the true culprit of this is the stealthing system itself, and the traitline.

Some players have argued that, “Because we trait in shadow line, this decreases our dps/burst damage.” This is totally not the case at all. Sure, you’ll lose 1.5k-2.5k dmg, but the fact that you get all the rewards there is to stealthing, it is totally worth it and lets you do even more dmg with the awesome survibility.

So without further a do, these are my suggestions:
1. Keep reveal debuff as is.
2. taking 15% incoming damage reveals you. [no debuff] Why not award players for out-thinking you? or for them being lucky and getting a hit in, or for you making bad decisions?
3. Since last refuge is such a hindrance, take it out and replace it with fleet shadow. [awesome buff imo]
4. Give Infusion of Shadow a 5 seconds cooldown.

Bacon Please.8407:

bladie.5084:

WereDragon.6083:

i’m a P/D thief and I can’t kill D/P thieves.

Nobody can kill a D/P thief.

I am D/P and I have been killed. Therefore your statement is flawed

You caught the bait. Nerf stealth.

WereDragon.6083:

i’m a P/D thief and I can’t kill D/P thieves.

Nobody can kill a D/P thief.

Master of Timespace.2548:

No you don’t lol. Stealth thief lacks the burst of an old school d/d thief and can’t burst a warrior down like that. Even the full, 100% burst spec has 22k health and 2200 armor. Warrior pretty much just uses noob pain followed by whirlwind attack and noob rush, and then thief is dead.

That’s a myth. All you need to do is spec for perma stealth and then have the rest of everything berzkered. Then you are basically even more terrifying then a d/d because you can maintain perma stealth, and is rewarded in stealth. So D/P is actually more terrifying then d/d. And you know that’s true.

Puru.4217:

I wouldn’t be surprised if infiltrator’s strike gets nerfed soon (called it, the amount of threads about this skill increase day by day), as will black powder instead of hitting the obvious broken trait that is infusion of shadow.

As for pistol whip, in the last state of the league when it was asked they avoided answering with “yeah, but if you remember well, release pw was op as hell”, that says it all.

S/P futur is grim.

I’m already mentally prepared for a infil strike nerf months ago tbh. although I don’t think powder will be nerfed at all. You have to remember that when they nerf one skill in a weapon set, it affects other weapon sets. So if they nerfed powder, P/P will become even more horrible, and S/P users will more likely revert to S/D. Instead, a better approach would probably be to nerf some stealth trait to stabalize D/P.

If you think about it, stealthing on powder is not OP at all, it’s what the trait offers for perma stealth.

XII.9401:

Yea. We can’t kill people fast enough and reset the fight at will. We need a serious buff from Anet so our class can carry us more =(.

You are by yourself. Do not associate me with you.

I feel like ppl are talking about me. I play a thief class with the mentality of a warrior.

Obama’s a puppet.

Darwinism.

PS: Stealth is still OP.

This question has been asked at least once every week or other week.

I’m quite annoyed because Anet has been dodging this question. It should have been common sense to have given a response in regards to Pistol Whip the day they announced Haste nerf.

Can we finally get a staff to reply, Please?

15% nerfed in damage is A LOT.

Ohh Ohh.. I have never used this phrase but let me have a go at it… [since it’s such a popular phrase within the thief community]

Ahem!..~~ If You played a thief and concluded them to be an average class or a bad class then… Wait for it….. Wait for it…. You need to L2P! LMFAO!!

Forzani.2584:

I sit back and watch Thieves from my server terrorize small groups to mini zergs. That way I can actually get an idea what the Thief is doing since I can see him even when stealthed. Thief kills someone, stealths, teleports away and watches from total safety as the zerg runs around like a chicken with it’s head cutoff using aoes and swinging their weapons in the air. Laughable.

The biggest problem isn’t stealth …or mobility…it’s stealthed mobility. Daoc had it right. Even though they had perma stealth, your mobility was severly hampered. Your movement speed was maybe 50% slower than not stealthed.

GW2 ? Two different shadowsteps that teleport you 1200+ units away in a blink. Spam heartseekers…use SB and you can put a ton of distance between you and the enemy. Never mind Fleet shadows that is a 50% movement speed while in stealth…..which is kind of weird imo. The fastest movement speed in the game is while stealthed ? Hopefully I have that wrong.

So the Thieves that come on here telling us to use AOE …yea right. Unless you have a 1200 unit aoe spell I don’t know about good luck hitting a thief with it.

Currently there is zero penalty to be stealthed. No movement speed penalty and zero counters. Plus when you are stealthed you can’t even be damaged to take you out of stealth. Yes, you can get hit while in stealth ….but you are also likely under a very strong regen and condition removal….and as mentioned earlier, very unlucky if you do take a ton of damage while stealthed with all the mobility.

Very poor game design.

Stealth in GW2 is pretty much total immunity.

lmfao this sums it up. No sarcasm. Stealth is OP. It’s funny when thieves who are heavily traited into it deny it.

This is the truth; Truth was your small group never stood a chance in the beginning at all. w/ 5-6 ish of you guys, you have to have in a range of 500-900 range at least from each other to cover as much ground as you can. Everyone has to be very verbal whether in chat or on voice comm to give the location of the thief at all times. As soon as you see the red circles you HAVE to start pouring in your AOEs. Dont stand on top of it because your skills will just miss. You need some awesome knockbacks and CC for very educated guesses of where the thief will be. The idea is that when you see the red cirlce, your small group always wants to surround it but don’t stand in it. Also, when you see exploding animatin in the red circles, they aren’t using a leaping skill to gain stealth anymore, they’re using blast finishers [cluster bomb] on SB. That’s when you stand on the powder in hopes that it hits you, thus giving the thief that 3 seconds revealed buff. 4 awesome classes to help counter perma stealth thieves are guardians w/ GS and shield off hand, or staff, Eles, Mesmers, and Necros.

And we’re assuming you guys all have great teamplay.. lmfao GL on perma stealth!

Because Thieves stealth is not OP! It’s perfectly fine. Just L2P [did you catch the sarcasm?]

sorrow.2364:

Something nobody mentioned is that LS is incredibly similiar animation-wise to the 3rd sword autoattack and, you know, nobody wants to dodge the autoattack.
Also, consider that arm animations are fairly hard to notice, expecially if the Thief is an Asura which has a model 70% smaller than any character, which bring us to another flaw of this game.

Then isn’t that a bad animation design on Anet’s part? Blurred Frenzy, Pistol whip, Warrior 1h sword profession skill are all literally the same. Every sword auto attacks are the same in every profession.

Softspoken.2410:

What the unholy Tartarus is this anecdote.

• IS as an opener is 3 initiative, not 2.

Congrats, you picked up an error.

• Why are you possibly burning C&D and steal if you are already within range (because that’s why you would burn IS as an opener) and your foe is immobilized?

Idk, you should prolly ask why I suggested so in the first place?

• You failed a Flanking Strike attempt, so either you lost the 3 initiative for the first hit, or the 1 for the second. If you miss both halves of that chain, you probably need to push less buttons.

Thank you, for stating the obvious.

• But you reliably pull off a C&D -> Daze. Okay.

okay.

• Using Shadow Return just because it was about to run out, not because you had conditions to cleanse / needed the stun-break.

Yeap.

• Shadow Return (From the sword skill) is only 2 initiative, not 3.

Thank you.

• You didn’t even total up the initiative used in your own scenario. (It’s 30.)
• If the boons you stole are useless, why were you even attempting flanking strike instead of just the 1-chain of the sword?

Well I’m glad you ask. I’m glad someone asked. So how is S/D OP?

Softspoken.2410:

As it is, you’ve stolen 4 boons in that scenario, which determines a lot of the “Was this worth it?” factor. If you stole boons that weren’t really useful to you though, that’s still your strategically poor choice.

Well I’m glad someone pointed this out. Which comes back to OP’s view of FS. spamming 3-3-3-3-3 doesn’t get you anywhere. In fact the thief does not need to rip boons in the beginning, it is pretty self efficient in itself. It is only below 50% that the thief really needs to start strategizing his FS to deliver his final consistent blows of auto attack.

This battle situation was created in response of OP’s thoughts of how a S/D is played. With some realism choices into play and the myth of FS spamming.

You’ve been trolled for not realizing that.

sorrow.2364:

S/D isn’t balanced at the moment. The simple fact that most thieves are running that set now is a symptom of something which doesn’t work.

FS would be balanced if it stole only one boon of if it had its initiative cost increased.

Actually, excluding P/P that may need some work, every thief set is worth running, making thief one of the most balanced class the game has right now. If they only didn’t messed with S/D, of course.

Then why is it that yourself, is the only person whos posted about this on the forums? Surely it’s so bad to the point where you will see multiple posts about this issue? Perhaps you’ve noticed this being so OP that it literally shuts down bunker builds. Or perhaps it doesn’t affect them to that degree where they feel they have to post about it?

sorrow.2364:

Don’t forget that on the same bar of S/D there is Shadow Return, which is the only stunbreaker in the game which is also a weapon skill. Also, it costs initiative too!
I don’t think the CC other classes bring to the table are a real problem to thieves, neither I think that the lack of CC on thieves is a good reason to justify the insane amount of boon stripping FS guarantee.

Don’t underestimate the cost of Infil strike, The skill as a whole costs 5 initiative. So lets add it all up. Infil strike as opener [2 init], CnD + steal [6 init], auto attack daze, 1st flanking strike attempt failed [4 init], 2nd one hits [4 init], does another CnD [6 init] daze and pulls off another flanking strike [4 init]. Oh shi shadow return is running out, lets return [another 3 init]. So in a time frame of 9-14 seconds you’ve burned this much init already. And lets keep in mind that the boons you work so hard to steal will vanish in a matter of seconds. So you are now back to square 1 with low initiatives and usekitten ons that aren’t helping you regain init any faster. And you know what sucks? The other class can re-apply their boons within seconds. Not all of their boons but most of them. Lets assume you are specced into regen inits. Lets take all the initiative and half it. But lets also assume… That you’re fighting an actual decent player who’s knowledgeable in how to trait their class and the right sigils/runes/foods to use.. Well. kitten.. Back to square one? CCing plays a huge role in any games, It’s like you’re underestimating it. It’s what other players use to pressure thieves. To get them to spam infil strike and return.. and again and again. or get them to cnd or D/P trololol stealth. I was in no way directly/indirectly implying that we should have boon ripping skills because we lack CC’s. Also, a knowledgeable player should always try to be aware of the position where the sword thief left to infil strike. You always want to pressure him to go in the direction of his spot. There fore if you pressured him to return, you can maintain your dps and CC. Why let the thief control the fight, why not start thinking outside the box?

sorrow.2364:

Seriously, making FS stealing only one boon means making thief obliterated?
How are you guys scared about balance?

Why try balancing an already balanced skill? I don’t doubt you being among the thief community but i really question your gameplay time on a S/D. There is more to S/D thieves then FS. You are honestly looking in the wrong direction to balance the thief class.

Karolis.4261:

22222 spammers were never successful.

This is prolly one of the most simple yet honest truth ever.

Master of Timespace.2548:

Do you know what swords stealth attack does?

Yes and I certainly know what dagger stealth does too.

The OP is onto something and the truth is, there really is no point in defending your tower except for pride and being stubborn. What do you get from defending a tower? a dynamic quest for successfully defending w/ very petty rewards. What do you get for claiming a tower and giving buffs? Nothing. What do you get for holding that tower? Nothing. What do you get for upgrading the tower? Only to have it retaken the next day you wake up. So what do you gain from defending a tower in the end? Nothing.. The cycle just repeats itself. I used to be a naive and ignorant and laid “my life” for towers and such but then i realized lol it’s more beneficial for me if they take it so we can just retake it. The only exception is having the keep, because then it makes things easier to retake. Yeah Yeah i know, I should be ashamed of myself for this kind of thinking but it’s being real.

Obv the “you can dodge” argument is not valid in the case of thieves since they can spam the exact same skill. But what happened to the unique-ness of Sigils, Runes, and foods? What about all that CCing other classes bring to the table that thieves lack?

sorrow.2364:

bladie.5084:

While i agree with what you have to say on some parts, Flanking strike is not overbuffed. The damage went from below average, to Satisfying numbers. In reality you’re not goin to connect both stabs 100% of the time and when you steal boons from other players, they’re usually bunker builds and they can just reapply. What’s wrong with that?

There are two things wrong:
1. On bunker builds, as long as the boon is reapplied, it is stolen again. You need only 5 seconds to regain 4 initiative, without considering all the initiative-regen traits. Considering that bunkers haven’t an infinite source of boons and they are usually linked to a recharge too, you are essentialy becoming the boon-bunker yourself when you are facing one, while removing all their protection. It is a too hard counter to be considered balanced.
2. LS hurts low-boon reliant professions like warriors even more then bunkers. Being able to strip, let’s say, the effect of Signet of Rage with 2 LS is even more game-breaking then constantly strip boons on bunkers.

But you’re assuming every S/D thieves will concentrate their build in init regain, spamming FS. Which is totally not the case. And lets say there are thieves like that (which I’m sure there are) There are major weaknesses and the skill can be prevented if know how done correctly. But again, you are talking about a situation where a thief will land all of his FS.

Number two is situational. And if traited right, the warrior can do exceptionally more dmg to thieves. You’ll have swift, might, and fury which boosts a warrior’s dmg (if traited). Honestly I don’t understand when you’re fighting the same opponents over and over again whether in spvp or wvwvw, they seem to think that using ur elite on an opener is win. You know what’s also game breaking? Thief opens with basilisk venom, I shadow return. ranger uses elite root, I use withdraw or shadow return, Ele uses tornado, i kite with SB, mesmer uses moa, I run, engi uses package for stun, Break stun! My point is that elites can be countered really easy. Except guardians. KEKEKEKEKE.

But you don’t understand, that stealth is what’s op about thieves.

sorrow.2364:

I’m not saying ANet is always right, I’m saying that probably the huge amount of people who complaiend about Backstab combo were a right after all and we all remember how the Thief community responded to every Backstab combo complaints. So I’m trying to say that about 80% of the Thief forum attenders, the ones who justify everything with “you can dodge”, “thief has nothing but X”, “thief is squishy” and so on, pretty much the 70% of the posts we can see in this topic, probably don’t know that much about balance and are too much biased toward their profession. That’s all.

And yes, if you read the OP, you should know that I understand a little buff to Flanking Strike to increase the S/D utilization, maybe to the pathing, but not this kind of buff.

As I proved, I play no boon reliant profession.
Is that strange to you if someone wants to have his profession to be balanced and rewarding skills instead of mindless spamming?

While i agree with what you have to say on some parts, Flanking strike is not overbuffed. The damage went from below average, to Satisfying numbers. In reality you’re not goin to connect both stabs 100% of the time and when you steal boons from other players, they’re usually bunker builds and they can just reapply. What’s wrong with that?

Human, cuz im human.

we thieves are the nicest ppl evar

Hurtappl.6405:

If you see a DESO thief with long blonde hair and fruity attire… KILL IT

Cuz if you dont, it’ll kill you and you’ll be left in frustration and anger.(((

TheGuy.3568:

Lets be honest here and cut all the BS. If you look at mmo history classes with stealth get singled out. To my knowledge this is the most active combat stealth any class has ever gotten in one game. If you add that in with the number of evasive builds and the fact that thief movement is above each and every other class.

You end up with this situation. Not only can this class actively disengage from combat but it can also run away where only 2 classes have the possibility of catching up. If I chose to run likely I will get caught because you cant out run the thief. Your only option to win and likely y burst but thieves have one of the strongest burst builds and if I don’t avoid them while they are stealth I will get hit with it.

You tell this to a new player wtf are they supposed to do? If you actively search for the thief while stealth he may burst you the only way to know your hitting him is is you have an attack chain attack handy. The most popular stun breaker has 1200 range 2 ways on the most mobile class you wont catch up. If you run you’ll die vs most builds. Your only option to winning in an equal fight is going to water or simply out playing the thief. And then you have blind and perma stealth. Not even getting into heart seeker.

Now in PvE non of this matters and here we have one of the squishiest least useful classes to any team. Outside picking up members who fail at dungeon mechanics lest they be in an aoe then the thief cant do kitten. Sustained isn’t all that great and it is out shined by warrior and guardian.

To most players this is simply too much to handle solo. And in many cases too much to handle 1vx. Mesmer on the other had has weak access to stealth and not that much chase ie you could run.

Without out all QQ my warrior will usually beat a thief 1v1 as long as they aren’t PD (just run in that case). That being said the class is OP in WvW. Its UP in PvE and nigh useless in Tpvp but dominant in Spvp pick up/random.

To sum this all up any class with stealth is OP because stealth is inherently OP but the obscene amount of stealth thief gets is really too much. However, Anet saw fit to place all the good traits and burst (banging fist on table) inherently tied to stealth. Leaving the thief with nearly no option beside 2-3 under powered builds outside of stealth.

As of this moment this class has top mobility, top escape, top burst (100 nades used to beat it), most evades, combat stealth, and the capability to spam powerful skills. It also has a bad ranged weapon no true build diversity a bad reputation and no true place outside WvW.

To other thieves understand this if you are top in WvW either beg for nerfs there and buffs in PvE or accept the situation as it is. Either other classes are going to have to get buffed to consistently stop thieves from escaping a fight and running away or thieves are going to have to eat a nerf. There is no room to complain there is no room to kitten this is the situation. PvP gripes scale above PvE gripes and thief is on the wrong side.

Long post I know. No I am not QQing, No I am not angry, I just rather call it as it is. My thief (one of my first 80s) atm sits because when I take him into T1 WvW there isn’t much he can do save tag with a zerg or roam and be OP in that application which makes wins feel meaningless. When I take him into PvE I end up feeling like I rather jump on warrior or mesmer. Truth is it is a very OP and Up class but most thieves simply wont admit, refuse to see the perspective from other classes points of view or simply do not want get nerfed. I highlighted what I think is truly important the rest is the outsider perspective.

This is the truth.

As someone stated, he’s using Runes of Lyssa.
Educated guess is that He’s using Valkyrie armors w/ Toughness/power/precision and zerker acessories. Giving him the benefit of the doubt that he has some form of toughness since he DID take a backstab pretty well. The fact that he’s critting almost everytime shouts that he’s got some high precision and some fairly nice crit dmg. Probably using plate of Truffle steak. Either sharpening stone or maintenance oil for nourishments.

10 deadly arts [mug]
25 critical strike [side strike] [practiced tolerance]
0 shadow
20 acrobatics [vigorous recovery] [Asassin’s Reward]
15 trickery [flanking strikes]

either 25 critical/ 20 acrobatics, or 20 critical and 25 acrobatics.

You’re welcome.

Nice video though, as a sword user there really isn’t anything impressive but good intuition and usage of larc. strikes. I felt like the video needed a dynamic try hard player mode.

Iavra.8510:

Vizunah wins, not even close.

this is the truest.