Guild Wars 2

Maybe play a little less? Get into other things? Try some of the other stuff in game like RP, WvW, sPvP… set your own goals…

Do you know why games like Minecraft are so wildly popular? It’s because people make their own content instead of waiting for a dev to entertain them endlessly… and while this game doesn’t have the sheer amount of creative tools that Minecraft has (or any really)… you DO… you have an imagination that should be capable of spawning endless scenarios for you to play through… you CAN move forward under your own steam into lots of arenas if you use your imagination.

Or… if that doesn’t float you boat you can go back to some of my first suggestions… like take a break to try other things…

StevesDad.8213:

How do other MMOs deal with this?

All MMO’s are a balancing act for system resources… or perhaps a juggling act would be more apropos.

I imagine one of the reasons this is an issue is because the game is “more” twitchy than most MMO’s… there’s a reason why a lot of them don’t allow you to move while casting skills and don’t have a dodge function. There is a LOT more communication back and forth between client and server when you add in skill based dodge versus stat based “mathematically derived” dodges…. and then there’s calculations for range during skill activation and avoidance (ie player movement during the action)… etc and so forth…. and those are just 2 things that are happening during the combat. Now add in boons, passive trait effects, crit calculations, skill actuation, conditions… and who knows what else I’m not even thinking of (which im sure there is a lot)…

The bandwidth that one game has to juggle is not always comparable to another… and the solutions that work for one are infrequently a good solution for another.

Distaste.4801:

JonPeters.5630:

Actually this is not true and is something we are actively looking at. We have a number of solutions that we are talking about and when we are able to figure out which one will have the least impact on balance, performance, and testing we will put that solution in place as soon as possible.

Jon

While it’s good to hear you’re doing something…you’re still TALKING about solutions? 6 months this system has been broken, seriously week 1 there were plenty of threads about how condition builds get screwed due to caps. You should be well passed talking about solutions and testing them. And please! For the love of all that’s holy get a PTS server going so we can test this and any other class changes faster as well as make sure your logic isn’t flawed like the current condition system.

Players scream: We have a problem with such and such and 4 months of silence and we just want one word that the devs are aware of this problem and looking for solutions!!!

Dev: Hey… just wanted to let you know that we are aware of this problem, have several solutions in mind and are trying to figure out which one will affect the game the least.

Player screams: That’s not kitten good enough blah blah blah blah blah blah blah and kitten kitten and never make a change that we can’t test first.

I don’t blame them for being more taciturn… doesn’t seem to make any difference at all when they aren’t. Irrationally demanding players are irrationally demanding.

Dragunstreak.6708:

Do you guys who make complaints about conditions being broken, caps ruining the game, mass suicide if conditions aren’t fixed soon plox etc etc, actually fail at dungeons due to these caps? I have a 3 chars I run condition builds on, and I do run dungeons fairly often on all of them, yet even when we have multiple people specced for conditions in the group, it isn’t a huge failure and we gotta reform the group or something, so I honestly dunno what the issue is here. They have acknowledged it, they may or may not be working on it, don’t worry about it, stop posting huge theories about how the game will die or how you “worry” over something so silly and insignificant (God I wish I could worry over things so small and silly). And if someone tries to pull the “But it’s broken in spvp and wvwvw” card, please, just don’t lol.

I’ve never had any massive problems from playing in a party with more than one condition spec. With one exception… longer engagements reduce survivability. Plain and simple… the longer an engagement lasts, the likelihood that one or more members of the party will miss a dodge or not have an important cooldown increases. This is exacerbated when such a large percentage of the gaming populace is convinced that glass cannon is the only effective way to go. For many of those builds, if they can’t even the fight in under a minute or two, it means a likely wipe… due to all of their survivability is built into burning down an opponent as quickly as possible.

When a player makes sure to build some surviavability… and slot some utility that aren’t just “ups my damaj bro”… these dungeons are far from hard… and the condition cap doesn’t affect too awful much.

Now… huge open world events are another matter… a damage condition build can get locked out of the fight almost when the caps are reached and new ticks are constantly being wiped. Which leaves them with increasingly sub-par direct damage that is attached to their condition skills.

Honestly… I have little use for specialized builds like pure condition or pure direct damage. One trick ponies are too easily hard countered. I put my money on hybrid builds… but that is just my preference, and opinion.

Parlourbeatflex.5970:

<snip>

But wait! gw2 has another option, you guys can join multiple guilds so if really want to be part of a high tier guild mission then you could all join a larger guild and play the missions together anyway. Ok so it wont buff your own guild reputation (which is something that i cant really see small and casual guilds caring about) but at least you got to have fun and do some content that wasn’t designed (unlike anything else in the current game) for 5 man guilds.

Overall, id say this entire argument is ridiculous.

Overall… you haven’t noticed the number of mega guilds that require 100% representation.

The number of them that don’t are in quickly diminishing minority. Especially since the announcement of these guild missions and the reward system attached to them.

What this means is that the “rep more than one guild” option is mostly null and void. A small guild being told to “rep another large guild” is mostly being told to “disband and give up your small guild.”

I’d say that makes your entire argument ridiculous… but since I’m not into insulting people before I’ve educated myself about the topic they are discussing I won’t.

Some of the rarer dyes have a different appearance on different types of textures.

Take my light armor wearing mesmer for instance.

Midnight fire is a “rare” tier dye… on cloth I just looks very very black (with perhaps the slightest overall tinge of red)… but on the bits of armor that are a leather texture you see a very nice burnished red leather look that fades from a nice red out to black. It’s really very cool and a nice way to use a dye to spice up her look because it isn’t a flat one tone color.

You have to experiment… some dyes look really cool on metallic textures… some look interesting on leather… I haven’t found any yet that do much for cloth bits, but I haven’t opened up a lot of the higher tier dyes yet either.

Oh and don’t use the price of the dye on the TP as an indication. Whites and Blacks are always the most expensive/desired in a game… I have Celestial unlocked on my mesmer… I think it sucks, haven’t found a piece of armor yet that it doesn’t entirely wash out and destroy most of the detail work. But it sells for mondo cash because it is perceived as the purest of the pure whites.

In the pic I attached you can see on her backside is an area where the color almost looks like really deep dark crushed velvet. That’s midnight fire. In the vertical strips on her arms and back you can see how it highlights the leather texture. And notice that super black area on the bottom? That’s midnight fire on cloth… just very black… but the brown inside the strips of white is also midnight fire. Different armor textures react differently to different dyes.

The change to waypointing in the dungeon while the party is in combat is certainly working as intended… and it is a good thing.

But it has had some seemingly unintended (i hope) annoying side effects.

A little anecdotal evidence for you.

Yesterday I was running AC… we had dragged Kholer on to the Troll to let them duke it out. While they fought we rained down fiery death upon them. Less than 30 seconds before they both went down like a sack of potatoes, I missed Kholers pull animation amongst all the particle effects from skills being slung everywhere… got pulled in and died. It happens sometimes… except as a result I did not get any loot off either of their bodies.

We run AC a lot, it’s fast and easy. Kholer is easy to fight, but sometimes he gets jammed in the wall during the fight and you can’t see his pull animation to avoid it.

Last week I died fighting Kholer too… for that very reason, he was stuck in the wall being dps by the warriors while my mesmer was off at range doing his job to throw up feedbacks and whatnot. Missed the pull animation because the only part of Kholer that was visible was his leg. Died like a frog in a blender. He was less than 10% health at that point, I had participated in the entire fight… but I did not get to loot his body because I died.

Still get the chest, naturally… but you miss out on the silver he drops, as well as the bag that contains more tokens, influence, and more coins.

This is a phenomena that I can assure you changed after the patch… as I run AC at least once a day, and other dungeons if I have time/desire. It used to be you still got your loot if you did your job during the fight but went down.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

bluewanders.5297:

As I’ve said multiple times… we have no problem dealing with the unique issues of being a small guild and it’s ability to generate influence. What we have a problem with is the way this content is to be introduced and the fact that there is a reward system attached to it that made some of our more peripheral members immediately announce they would be joining and repping a big guild so that they could start earning the new currency… since we wouldn’t have it available for at least 2 weeks.

Most of the large guilds they have contacted have already told them that 100% rep will be required… even ones that didn’t require it before this content was announced. Can they find one that won’t say “we cull our ranks and don’t allow leeching”? I dunno… but I honestly can’t really blame the big guild for wanting people to rep and earn influence to help activate this content…

And this is what the method of introduction and the attachment of an exclusionary reward system has created… the content hasn’t even dropped yet.

I really wish we knew more about the content and this “new currency”. Is it a currency, or is it like flags that get triggered that unlock content? “Oh, you finished a Guild Bounty! Now we can offer you a different activity since you proved you have some skill.”

Also, the exclusiveness was, unfortunately, long going on. Most advertising guilds I saw even before November wanted 100% representation. And any guild advertising active WvW want teamspeak AND 100% rep.

(I want to note, I have issues running TS/Vent alongside GW2. As in, it doesn’t work so well.)

Right… everyone who says a small guild can just rep a big guild is counting on you finding that 1 big guild out of 50 that allows you to member up but not rep full time.

We don’t know what the currency is… but we do know that there are new bonus upgrades to be activated within the guild tech and that they have said players will be able to trade it in for unique items and such.

I am not in any particular hurry… but many gamers have a fear of being left behind that gear treadmill games of the past have pounded into them. “If you don’t get in on this now… you’ll be behind the curve and spending all your free time trying to catch up instead of doing what you want.”

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Dropping in again to say that the reaction in my guild so far has been mixed until I pointed out you can buy Influence with coin. Then the attention turned to “so now we pool our gold…” which was better than the “well, we can wait it out I guess”.

Yeah, my guild’s a little crazy We just enjoy playing the game.

Yeah… that’s pretty much what happened with the core of my guild too… they all started pooling gold to buy influence.

As I’ve said multiple times… we have no problem dealing with the unique issues of being a small guild and it’s ability to generate influence. What we have a problem with is the way this content is to be introduced and the fact that there is a reward system attached to it that made some of our more peripheral members immediately announce they would be joining and repping a big guild so that they could start earning the new currency… since we wouldn’t have it available for at least 2 weeks.

Most of the large guilds they have contacted have already told them that 100% rep will be required… even ones that didn’t require it before this content was announced. Can they find one that won’t say “we cull our ranks and don’t allow leeching”? I dunno… but I honestly can’t really blame the big guild for wanting people to rep and earn influence to help activate this content…

And this is what the method of introduction and the attachment of an exclusionary reward system has created… the content hasn’t even dropped yet.

I agree that something needs to be done about condition damage. I think direct damage needs to be brought into line… and burst damage needs to have a hard serious look, because it is way out of line.

Since there ARE technical limitations in different forms of damage, then thats the bar that other sorts of damage need to be balanced around.

However now we are very much off topic from the hyperbole of the original post.

Flubble.8093:

how about a trait that shows a stealthed enemy to all within 600 range radius (or lower) of me or something, so instead of being completely invisible they show up like stealthed allies do (see through but you can see them) but with no name above them? would still be stealthy while giving us a bit of a counter.

Show Spoiler

hide spoiler

if they introduce largos as a race in the future, this could be a trait or racial skill for them

That would be way way way OP… way OP…

Stealth detection of that sort is way too hard a counter. Hard counters are bad.

It needs to have limitations… first off, permanent passive stealth reveal would by WAY op. It needs to be an actuated skill or consumable…

Permanent passive stealth reveal that gives it to everyone around you would be even more ridiculously op.

So a utility skill for one or more of the utility professions would be great… you slot it in favor of some other tool… you activate it when you need it, it lasts for a limited time and then goes on cooldown.

Or you provide a consumable all classes can purchase… make it soul bound… and have limitations of it’s own… such as an internal cooldown that prevents it from being chained..

Elvahaduken.3609:

I don’t understand why certain classes can’t bring 1 type of condition that can stack to 25 and each condition has their own debuff, that way if you needed certain debuffs you would NEED those classes in your groups. its called class diversity anet …pls, I know everyone “hates” wow but pls learn from it.

That is sort of exactly what was quoted in the OP… making conditions less redundant.

kRiza krimos.1637:

bluewanders.5297:

kRiza krimos.1637:

Ansultares.1567:

kRiza krimos.1637:

So thief should be only class who’s unique ability should have counter?

What? What “unique abilities” are in this game which aren’t countered by DPS, except for stealth? Even the Mesmer needs stealth to effect escapes while his decoy clones distract enemies.

Stealth is the only “unique ability” in the game.

Yea, and ranger can also stealth, but its thiefs unique mechanic just like attunments are for elementalist. By your words, how stealth isnt countered by DPS if thief can be damaged while in stealth? If that is your logic, then there is already counter to stealth, its called AoE. Channeled skills also continue to damage stealthed enemy…

Actually “steal” is the thiefs unique mechanics… stealth is just a skill he is very heavy in and many of his attacks complement it.

Steal, dual skill and stealth are thief class mechanics afaik.

No… stealth isn’t a unique mechanic because other classes have access to it… the steal plus initiative stuff… along with the dual strikes with each weapon set.

kRiza krimos.1637:

Ansultares.1567:

kRiza krimos.1637:

So thief should be only class who’s unique ability should have counter?

What? What “unique abilities” are in this game which aren’t countered by DPS, except for stealth? Even the Mesmer needs stealth to effect escapes while his decoy clones distract enemies.

Stealth is the only “unique ability” in the game.

Yea, and ranger can also stealth, but its thiefs unique mechanic just like attunments are for elementalist. By your words, how stealth isnt countered by DPS if thief can be damaged while in stealth? If that is your logic, then there is already counter to stealth, its called AoE. Channeled skills also continue to damage stealthed enemy…

Actually “steal” is the thiefs unique mechanics… stealth is just a skill he is very heavy in and many of his attacks complement it.

I like the idea of a “soft” counter to stealth… I think engineer would be another good candidate. They could have some nifty gadget to accomplish the task… such as the goggles we already have that cause vulnerability.

As far as spreading the ability to see stealthed enemies to the rest of the party… that might be a bit OP.

wintermute.4096:

bluewanders.5297:

All in all… I think he gave a great and informative bit of response there… with a good deal of transparency. What I derive from it is that they have technical limitations right now that limit the amount of bandwidth their servers can use, so they put caps on things in order to preserve the quality of the combat. You would be even more annoyed if your dodges suffered massive latency.

You seem to have never been exposed to statements of officials of any corporate entity before. Ask yourself, under the assumption that somebody responsible for product quality really kittened up. How likely, on a scale of 1 to 10 is it for an official in front of the gathered consumers, to admit, yes, we totally kittened up?

No matter what crap you told them, you’d always get an “oh my, that’s a very interesting idea, I’ll totally bring that up on the next dev meeting.”

Don’t presume to know anything about my experiences, knowledge, or insights.

It is only your opinion that they “kittened up” and need to own up to it. What is an oversight to you can just as easily be a creative solution to those who had to deal with the problem. You also don’t know whether he actually does think it is an interesting and idea and does intent to present it to his engineers as a possible solution.

And… what is wrong with trying to sound like you are engaged with consumer feedback? Just because it was given doesn’t mean they can implement a solution to every problem every user ever had.

I can say something similar to you by intoning that you must never have been in a position of responsibility where you had to both interact with customers, as well as make decisions that would affect your product.

Jzaku.9765:

bluewanders.5297:

Is anything being done to address that to make them (conditions) less redundant?

To which colin replies that it is a very interesting idea that might foster better team play… in other words a remake of class skills so that there is less overlap. This is a solution that works within the technical limitations he presented in the first part of his response. But he also discusses general quality of life issues such a massive rework would cause for the classes affected if they could no longer stack certain conditions.

You clearly haven’t read any other meet n’ greet or AMA or anything else like that because if you did you’d know that “That’s a very interesting idea!” means “We’re not doing anything about it nor have we thought of doing anything about it, but we’re going to say it’s a nice idea to make you feel good about yourself”.

He openly admits they aren’t considering it in seperate places within just what you quoted in the op. What more do you want? But he also says its interesting and worth a look. How you interperet that, and how you presume to know what there thought processes and internal conversations look like, is all on you.

As for the rest saying it can be done quickly and easily and everything else… you don’t know what tools their engineers have developed for the backend. You don’t know how it works… you haven’t seen it… you don’t know what flaws it has and why… you know absolutely nothing about their code, why it operates the way it does, and why it doesn’t operate in another way.

Jzaku.9765:

There’s a cap on condition stacks of 25. In a scenario where you have two thieves attacking a boss and one of them can achieve a stack of 25 by themselves, the other one essentially becomes useless because they’ve got nothing to stack on. Is anything being done to address that to make them less redundant?

So we can derive at least 2 things from this:

*Colin himself doesn’t actually understand his own game and doesn’t realize that 5 condition builds in a party without a condition cap would be outputting equivalent damage as 5 direct damage builds because on an individual level they are equal

*He seems to think it’s perfectly okay to leave it as terrible as it is because fixing it would make hosting more expensive. I.E., it’s okay to leave things completely unbalanced.

To your first point:
I don’t know where you derive that Colin doesn’t understand his own game at all… no where in there does he say anything at all about class performance as far as condition builds versus anything else.

To your second point:
There is such a thing as business overhead. And this game has been running with overhead for 5 years before it was even released… and continues to rack up overhead in costs. There is no monthly sub. So box sales and what gems are bought have to both bring the game out of the red from what was spent in 5 years of development, but also must cover salaries, server maintenance and costs… so on and so forth. It is a pretty well known fact that one of the greatest limiting factors as far as cost goes is server bandwitdth… which is the amount of information your servers can transmit and recieve during a given period of time. The vast majority of his response talks about the technical limitations they are facing in this department and admits that the cost of bandwidth is WHY they chose to place a cap.

The second part of his response is in answer to the original question… I bolded it for you, but I will copy and paste it here, again…

Is anything being done to address that to make them (conditions) less redundant?

To which colin replies that it is a very interesting idea that might foster better team play… in other words a remake of class skills so that there is less overlap. This is a solution that works within the technical limitations he presented in the first part of his response. But he also discusses general quality of life issues such a massive rework would cause for the classes affected if they could no longer stack certain conditions.

All in all… I think he gave a great and informative bit of response there… with a good deal of transparency. What I derive from it is that they have technical limitations right now that limit the amount of bandwidth their servers can use, so they put caps on things in order to preserve the quality of the combat. You would be even more annoyed if your dodges suffered massive latency.

And before you respond telling him to pay for more bandwidth… how much have you spent in the gem store lately? If you want them to be able to overcome limitations derived from the income of the game… support it by spending a small amount of money. 5 or 10 dollars a month isn’t much to you, but it would add up for them and allow them to do more with the resources they have. If it isn’t worth that cost to you… then continue to enjoy the game and hope they continue to release new content, pay their people, maintain their servers, and turn enough of a profit to both keep it online and improve it… I’m certain you have already gotten your moneys worth and then some…

They aren’t evil people who don’t give a kitten… I’m sure they care much more than you do… after all… this is how they are feeding their families. And I’m sure many of them are very passionate about the game… most people who work in a creative industry do…

I always identify them… because I like collecting dyes. Gotta catch em all.

And then I take the dyes that I already have and throw them in the mystic forge for a chance at higher tier dyes… it’s a good way to turn those 90 copper dyes into 22 gold.

Vorch.2985:

You want content that can be done by a guild of 5 people or less?

Please see the rest of PvE.

That is a very good point Vorch… the whole rest of the PvE. So what we should be suggesting in this thread is that larger guilds disband and fracture into smaller guilds… rather than suggesting small guilds disband to be absorbed by larger ones.

Or since there is no content for big guilds… they can just rep a small guild when they want to do small guild content.

After all… what’s good for the goose is good for the gander.

This way the devs can concentrate on the same sorts of content they have already been producing… only make it more interesting and complex with greater depth… instead of scaling things up to create content that the typical in-game group cannot complete.

/satire

Because if you want Arah armor… you should have to run Arah. Dungeon armors are supposed to be “prestige” armors. Meaning that by wearing them, you are showing off your skills/accomplishments. Whatever… doesn’t matter if its true or not.

Considering you can start running AC explore at level 35… no, you shouldn’t be able to run ac to level and buy arah gear when you are done.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Odd thought, please disregard if it sounds like it’s stupid.

- Ill-prepared small guilds can’t start Guild Bounty, but can find a ready guild to go do the events on.
- They’re ill-prepared to start because of Influence cost and time, presumably?
- By getting the whole small guild together in one spot to do the event, they earn Influence at an already-inflated rate. Thus, they earn more Influence faster for participating even if they don’t earn these Merits.
- If they participate enough, they can afford the upgrades and wait out the 2 weeks of build time to get there. I’m fairly certain 2 weeks is a conservative amount, I don’t know for sure.
- BY participating, they know what to expect and thus when it’s their turn they are more capable of doing it. They find another small guild to invite along . . . and thus help someone else start climbing the ladder.

No guilds are ill-prepared…. we looked at, planned… and executed our research in trees for what we valued in them as they existed. There is nothing “ill-prepared” about planning and executing an informed plan.

Many small guilds may have lots of influence saved up…. that they have been saving “in preparation” for upgrades that they might want… without wasting it superfluously in tech trees they have no use for.

Secondly… when laurels were introduced… how would you have liked it if a portion of the population were given the ability to earn them, and you were told that you couldnt get them because you were “ill prepared” but you could and should help everyone who COULD get them to get theirs and start cashing them in for monetary rewards and the like.

You last three paragraphs are fluff and inconsequential to the debate at hand.

We aren’t talking about small guilds not being willing to work to open the content… in fact… most small guilds work MUCH HARDER to open content than large guilds do… because they don’t generate influence like collateral damage in an Schwarzenegger movie. We are talking about them being excluded from launch content… when it easily could have been avoided without putting anyone off.

This entire debate probably would have never happened if the launch content were gated behind level 5 in economy. It doesn’t belong there either, by the way… not the first ever available content for guilds to do that is specifically for guilds to do… sure later content can go wherever… but launch content should never exclude people when there are reward systems attached to it.

I would not be adverse to this at all… but I think some restrictions would need to be placed on it.

1) The cost would need to remain the same or slightly higher for the convenience… and possibly be attached to a consumable with charges that you either have to buy from the gem store or craft… or buy with karma or laurels or something. 25 charges in an item that says “double click to consume 1 charge and 5 silver to switch to one of your secondary trait boards”

2) Only in open world, when out of combat. This means it cannot be used in instanced content such as dungeons…. or on the fly in wvw while running to your next objective.

3) It needs a cooldown… 5 or 10 minutes maybe.

Borikitty.1302:

The other point of contention is the scavenging that is going to happen. Raiding alliances never work. It just doesn’t. 15 years of being in guilds doing raid content have shown me otherwise. Those who are attracted by the shinies in one guild will leave the smaller one to get it thus eliminating the use or desire to be in a small guild. It’s just how it works. If Arenanet was aiming to create unity apparently they forgot the laws of MMO Lootwhoring 101.

One thing I have found particularly interesting in this thread is that it is apparently perfectly acceptable for small guilds to be told they can just split up and be absorbed into larger guilds… but it would be sacrilegious to say “what? no content for big guilds? well why don’t you disband and fracture into multiple small guilds?”

Guilds of all sizes can have guild loyalty, history, and community that they don’t want to give up… the answer should NEVER be to force players to radically alter the way they interact with the games other players in order to remain on an even level (proportionatly speaking) with other players who possess different values but the same desires.

Again… smaller guilds like mine have no problem grinding to open content… high influence costs… and even content that we don’t have enough members to complete (yet)..

What we do take exception to is being excluded from for a time and bleeding players to large guilds while we struggle to react in a timely fashion.

I encourage you to have content for small and large guilds alike… and make them as expensive and convoluted to activate as you like.

But never never never exclude portions of the community from participating in new rewards systems that will make them feel like if they want the currency they have to radically alter their playing preferences. The reasons WHY we don’t want to be in a large guild are of no consequence…

You could have avoided these feelings in many of us by letting us know a month ago we needed to waste all our influence and build queue slots into AoW… we would have done it without complaint (at least my guild would have)… you could have avoided these feelings by placing content in a more attractive tree… you could have avoided these feelings by placing the new content in a tree all its own.

The ONLY thing we are taking an exception to is being excluded from launch content at launch time. And due to this, we are already bleeding players.

bluewanders.5297:

Quarktastic.1027:

Or you could… since this particular dev has taken the time to talk to us like real people… treat him like a real person and take him at his word. This is called respect, you give it to people until they give you a reason not to.

Respect is something to be earned, not given. I’m not saying they WERE lying, I was merely pointing out the possibility. Because, you know, it is possible.

For the record, I don’t take anyone at their word unless they happen to be a good friend.

That oft repeated little colloquialism lends people to mistake the idea of “respectful conduct” with the word “admiration”… respect, as you are using it, is a state of being and thinking… a regard for another… when I intended its use as a modified verb. Although I admit it could be a little murky in interpretation… there is absolutely no indication that I told you to admire the man when I was clearly calling for respectful conduct. Perhaps if I had used the word “treat” instead of “give” you wouldn’t have fallen on a preprogrammed reaction to my statement.

You can treat someone respectfully while not regarding them with respect.

Two entirely different concepts.

He hasn’t given you any reason to respect or admire him… but the mere fact that he exists and has done you no wrong should warrant you treat him respectfully, as polite society dictates.

As far as “taking people at their word” or to condense “trusting” them and their status as your friend… it’s a chicken or egg thing. You can’t really reach the stretch of regarding someone as a friend until you have instilled in them some trust.

Although trust is a tricky thing in and of itself… because you never actually trust another, you simply trust in your own ability to judge another and invest that in them.

Back on the actual subject… I find no reason to assume the item never existed or wasn’t available… and certainly no reason to toss accusations about this likelihood willy nilly. There are lots of events in this game that haven’t been farmed, some due to game bugs, some due to gamer nature. Neither of these are evidence of any false claims or evil deeds by anet employees.

We will find it eventually… and when we do, those that have convinced themselves that it is only now just available will also be convinced this is further proof that their paranoid suspicions were correct. And those that believed it was available all the time will find evidence that their beliefs were validated. That’s how belief goes. Either way… we would have no proof their either was correct. Only a new cool skin for a lucky few to admire.

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

I hate to personally say it, but this might be the time to start a petition to attempt to block this patch.

No… you don’t petition to block new content from dropping. I don’t want big guilds to be excluded from the content too just because small guilds have been… the answer is make our position known, and understood, be willing to discuss it at length until it is… and then act like adults once the “final” decision has been made and deal with it’s consequences on an adult level.

We aren’t 5 year olds… we can certainly deal with an unfavorable turn of events without trying to screw over everyone else for whom it is favorable. At the same time… when decisions have been made, the decision makers need to be given feedback and alerted to dissident opinions… that is the very basis and strength of freedom of speech. “Good” decision makers take this feedback into consideration in the future and incorporate it into more accurate decision making models… even if their decisions continue to press disfavor on a portion of the population affected by them… not all decisions can be favorable to everyone… but everyone should be heard and acknowledged… and their feedback should have weight.

Quarktastic.1027:

Conncept.7638:

Munkee.3542:

Translation: Final Rest was never in the game so we told you how incredibly rare it was and it will be added into the game in an update where large event chests are upgraded.

I would have rather you just told us it wasn’t in the game than try to convince me that ONE item in this ENTIRE game was so incredibly rare that you couldn’t give us any reasonable hints to its location.

Quarktastic.1027:

It’s also possible that the staff simply doesn’t exist outside of pvp and the devs are just trolling us.

Right, because trolling forumites is really worth risking an incredible job with a highly awarded and steadily growing company. Get over yourselves.

Perhaps “trolling” was a bit strong. More like, covering up their mistake by telling everyone “no, it’s really there, we didn’t lie to you! we promise!”

Or you could… since this particular dev has taken the time to talk to us like real people… treat him like a real person and take him at his word. This is called respect, you give it to people until they give you a reason not to.

Blix.8021:

Legendaries can’t be obtained via legit play? Lol ok keep thinking that

Take a look at the OP again… a single character with 5 legendaries… 6 months into the game.

lolroflcopters ok you keep thinking this is legit snickerpufflefutz

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

I know there have been some concerns about Guild Bounties being in the Art of War line. Our goal with this system is to give guilds activities and long-term progression that they can accomplish by working together as a guild. These missions are meant to be difficult and challenging to not only unlock, but to accomplish.

We would also like to make every guild upgrade line valuable to every guild. Currently, Art of War is very focused on PvP and WvW, but our plan is to continue to add more guild upgrades in the Art of War line to accomplish this. These Guild Missions are the first step. Along with this system, we also added a number of new guild upgrades that guilds can earn.

In the end, our goal for all of this content is to give guilds new goals and challenges to accomplished once they have researched deeply into each line, as well as require guilds to have researched multiple lines to unlock some upgrades. We expect guild members to have to work together as a guild to earn the influence needed to unlock these new missions, as well as overcome the challenge of the missions themselves.

In the future, we plan to continue to add more guild upgrades, as well as continue to add challenging guild missions, as we don’t want guilds to run out of goals and accomplishments they can achieve.

~Izzy @-’—-

Allow me to be clear….

I have absolutely no problem with guild missions appearing 10 upgrades deep in the WvW line.

I have absolutely no problem with larger guilds being given content that only larger guilds can complete.

I have absolutely no problem with giving guilds goals to work for… I WANT MORE of that…

I have absolutely no problem with guild missions appearing 500 tiers deep in a tech line I don’t care about/have no use for.

What I have repeatedly protested in this thread is that LAUNCH CONTENT be exclusionary.

I would have had absolutely no foul reaction at all if you had announced that a “guild missions lite” or whatever name you would want to give it would be available on launch day for smaller guilds to activate some nominal small content to do together as a guild and participate in the new reward system at a lower tier in a more popular tech line AND that there would be more large guild or hard core content available 25 or 100 tiers deep in the AoW tech tree. This way… we wouldn’t bleed members to the borg while we work toward these new guild goals… to activate missions that our guild now no longer has the numbers to complete.

I agree with a lot of players that most things can be completed with a 5 man team. A small guild of 20 players has the same problem as a guild of 500 in this respect… there has been no content aside from wvw and helping to open temples in orr for any group over 5.

I want more stuff for larger groups to do that isn’t WoW raiding… but you have chosen to exclude players from launch content… most particularly a new reward system with confirmed monetary bonuses… and given players the choice between not participating immediately or leaving their guilds to join a larger collective.

Make your new missions 5 million tiers deep in whatever tech line you want…. with as convoluted an unlock system as you want… with as prohibitive a cost to research as you want… I’m fine working toward them as a goal… which you stated is what you want. LAUNCH CONTENT should not be exclusionary… because you bleed population from the excluded percentage while they scramble to catch up.

Vorch.2985:

Correct me if I’m wrong. I do want to understand the problem.

One issue is NOT that it requires tier 5…it’s that it requires tier 5 Art of War, a tier you have not invested in.

You would be OK if it required tier 5 in the other trees because you already have invested influence in those.

I’m assuming you would also be ok if they made it require a completely separate and new tree, since everyone would start at the exact same point.

What you are NOT ok with is the fact that other guilds will be able to experience the content at a maximum of 16 days before you, assuming that you are starting at 0 AoW. This is because you would not be on equal footing on day 1 of the patch.

We can make the assumption that most guilds will have built economy and architecture for the storage and most desireable upgrades. So the suggestion that the very first batch of guild missions appear there is a compomise solution I presented earlier. It isn’t ideal though.

Ideal would be a new tech tree altogether… where every guild, including the one started on patch day… resides on equal footing with every other guild in regards to what they can choose to research.

This isn’t really an issue of WHAT is in the tech trees… it is in ADDING new content to preexisting trees without warning when many guilds may have not invested into it.

Prohibitive cost is not much of an issue… granted it is insulting to be told to pay 80 gold when others don’t have to… equal footing would dictate that all guilds have the opportunity to research the new content on drop day should they have the influence needed.

Not JUST experience the new content… as you said… anyone can come along for the ride with the lucky few and watch them get cool kitten we can’t. It’s the fact that we have to not only pay a tax for being a guild that was recently forced to start over after 5 months of dedication… but also must wait weeks to take part in the new content with access to the new rewards.

Along those same lines… any time you gate groups of people out of content based on time you are going to damage their population by providing incentive for players to change which population they belong to. A person who is already level 80 and has experienced everything they wanted to already but has been looking forward to new content may feel pressure to leave their small guild to join a larger one and keep up with whatever rewards they perceive are there… weeks before they otherwise would.

In this case… not only are you incentivizing the population to collect in large groups… you are also disincentivizing the population to remain in small groups. By suggesting they must pay a new content tax to buy enormous amounts of influence in a short period of time (to remain competitive with larger guilds who earn influence as a collateral and nearly unintended side effect of simply having a large player base and already have a large pool of previously useless currency) while also being forced to wait for weeks beyond when others will have immediate access. And leveling a gun at their head by bleeding their population further and increasing the amount of time/resources they must devote to the same task. Each member they lose moves them further away from the presented goal… and less able to complete the content once there.

How kitten would you have been if when they added laurels to the game you were told you had to wait after everyone else to earn any of the new currency because you didn’t level an engineer instead of a warrior… but you could fix that by paying 80 gold while you waited for 2 weeks (to level your engineer of course), or leaving your current batch of game partners and all the progress you had made to join a heavy spvp guild. The current situation is just as absurd.

Sereloth.4378:

bluewanders.5297:

Nobody is arguing that large guilds should not be given content for large guilds. I fully endorse that.

I also fully endorse large guilds having cool things they can guy.

What I do oppose is not being on equal footing on launch day…

Also… I oppose the idea that some rewards might ONLY be available when content made for 500 people is completed. Rewards should be based on expenditure, not the exact content completed. Meaning that a small guild could save up for that big reward if it wanted to. And I do realize we don’t even know much about what forms the rewards are going to take, this is purely in response to your previous question asking if larger guilds complete content for larger guilds they should earn rewards of better quality than a small guild can in no way complete on it’s own. Cost isn’t the issue… people are willing to save up… equality is the issue.

My 20 man guild should be on equal footing with EVERY guild in the game when the new content is released. If we don’t have enough influence to research that upgrade, so be it… but gating it in a tree we have no use for is kitten poor treatment. Making the upgrade cost tens of thousands of influence to research isn’t the issue either… if you want it to cost the same as getting all 5 tiers of AoW… I’m fine with that… as long as on patch day I have the same opportunity as every other guild in the game to research that upgrade.

We don’t appreciate being told we aren’t equal… that our only choice is to pay the tax, wait a few weeks, and bleed players….. or dissolve a guild we have pride in to join the collective and tattoo a number on our neck.

I don’t understand the bolded part. So you would be fine with it costing the same as it currently would cost being in AoW tier 5? What’s the point in that? You would pay the same but get less perks. By doing it the current way, you are also unlocking WvW perks that you may at some point decide to use.

Because build time for all 5 tiers of wvw (a tech tree we have no use for at this time and don’t expect to at any point) is minimum 16 days.

At some point, if we want wvw perks… we can unlock wvw perks. A small guild of 20 has absolutely no business claiming structures in wvw. We play wvw… but we respect that there are only so many structures to be claimed, and that large wvw guilds would benefit from both the recognition the claiming provides, as well as providing to the structure the upgrades and defense it means to claim it in the first place. It is just like NOT taking supply from a keep that is already low when you can run to a camp… good team work is good team work. If you can’t field enough assets, you don’t take away the opportunity from someone who can.

Sereloth.4378:

This is such a horrible attitude to have. Specially towards an MMO. First of all, “appreciation” is an internal state. Therefore, a person can appreciate someone else without acting on it. What I can assume you are referring to by “appreciate” is “cater”. You want Anet to cater to ALL of it’s players’ wishes. Can you imagine what a mess of a game that would be? There are so many complains and suggestions about how each and every person would like GW2 to be, that there’s absolutely no way to satisfy every single player.

I didn’t say that… correct your quote.

Nobody is arguing that large guilds should not be given content for large guilds. I fully endorse that.

I also fully endorse large guilds having cool things they can guy.

What I do oppose is not being on equal footing on launch day…

Also… I oppose the idea that some rewards might ONLY be available when content made for 500 people is completed. Rewards should be based on expenditure, not the exact content completed. Meaning that a small guild could save up for that big reward if it wanted to. And I do realize we don’t even know much about what forms the rewards are going to take, this is purely in response to your previous question asking if larger guilds complete content for larger guilds they should earn rewards of better quality than a small guild can in no way complete on it’s own. Cost isn’t the issue… people are willing to save up… equality is the issue.

My 20 man guild should be on equal footing with EVERY guild in the game when the new content is released. If we don’t have enough influence to research that upgrade, so be it… but gating it in a tree we have no use for is kitten poor treatment. Making the upgrade cost tens of thousands of influence to research isn’t the issue either… if you want it to cost the same as getting all 5 tiers of AoW… I’m fine with that… as long as on patch day I have the same opportunity as every other guild in the game to research that upgrade.

We don’t appreciate being told we aren’t equal… that our only choice is to pay the tax, wait a few weeks, and bleed players….. or dissolve a guild we have pride in to join the collective and tattoo a number on our neck.

this could have been solved by “editing” your current rank rather than “creating” a new one.

that said, I’m sorry for your misfortune… on a positive note you have gone through a learning experience. A couple things you can learn from this… always have a back up leader you can trust, don’t fiddle with things without getting a contingency in place… and research changes before making them.

Vorch.2985:

Toxyn.9608:

Vorch.2985:

I’m trying to figure out whether it’s the ability to start the event or the merits that are making these 5-people or less guilds angry.

Small guilds want the ability to easily trigger the introductory Bounty missions on their own, as well as gain the merits rewarded for those missions. This is perfectly reasonable as large guilds still have exclusive access to the harder missions which require more people.

I’m assuming that the perk price does not scale. So a larger guild would be able to reduced the WP cost earlier than a smaller guild with less effort.

Assuming that a small group could earn merits at a lower tier, would you be fine if you were only able to lower the WP cost 10% while a larger guild would be able to lower 25% with a higher tier of the perk?

Or would that still be an unfair advantage for the larger guild?

Larger guilds should not be given “better quality” rewards when they already have the ability to produce “higher quantity” of the rewards available.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

bluewanders.5297:

Groups of zerker warriors already burn through legendary mobs in under 1-2 minutes… there are videos of that on youtuve.

Either tone down direct damage… or make it a level playing field where specialists in another type of damage can accomplish the same thing.

This I’m not aware of, I’ve stayed clear of watching “speed clears/kills” since I saw one where Urgoz’s Warren was cleared in less than half an hour by using a couple odd glitches. (Or if you prefer, watching someone do Morrowind in less than 15 minutes by abusing the living crap out of alchemy.)

There may be some glitching involved in some speed runs… but that is not what I am talking about… I am talking about specifically groups of 5 zerker warriors, or 4 and 1 mesmer who basically acts a as a time warp turret that they carry around with them… melee at legendary dungeon boss down from 100% to 0% in under 2 minutes.

If this is acceptable, then people who are specialized to the extreme in condition damage should be able to accomplish the same. However, they cannot… due to condition caps and just general immunities of all kinds that direct damage types don’t even need to consider.

Add more mechanics to level the playing field… or balance things out some other way.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

bluewanders.5297:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Fortuna.7259:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Zookeeper.2513:

I can see the health pool issue in PvE (mainly world event bosses) but I don’t think it would have much affect in dungeons or WvW. In dungeons, it would help multiple condi classes in a 5 man keep up with the non-condi, serker (while not cancelling each other out) builds that people are running. In WvW/sPvP I don’t think it would have an over reaching affect as the amount of passive and active condi removal is insane as it is now. I definitely believe your point on a shift, but I don’t think it would be completely overwhelming.

. . . I think it could have a huge impact in WvW if combined with zerg tactics. And if each person got their own 25 Stacks of Bleed/Poison/Burn? Condition-damage zergs might become a “thing”.

What is the big deal about dying from 100 stacks as opposed to 100 crit/power projectiles?

You can’t “evade” damage from stacks, mostly. Since this isn’t an actual thing going on and I’m not in a position to run tests? I can’t say other than to speculate weakly. WvW is not a huge strength but I’ve seen Damage over Time effects with more unrestricted stacking rules cause problems in the past.

Your argument has some merit… and is one reason my wvw skills might be better seperated from PVE… because players don’t have the same monolithic health pools that mobs have, which is what negates some builds… or possibly just removing or increasing the condition cap in pve but retaining it in wvw.

I could agree to that, though the effect from that change probably would cause mobs to have more health overall since people would burn through it with stacks faster . . . meaning you might see it becoming the only viable way to take down a single Legendary/Champion mob.

Groups of zerker warriors already burn through legendary mobs in under 1-2 minutes… there are videos of that on youtuve.

Either tone down direct damage… or make it a level playing field where specialists in another type of damage can accomplish the same thing.

Vorch.2985:

bluewanders.5297:

Darkdanjal.3401:

I hate it when people are actually quoting 2 words I putted in a response and are responding to it, you are actually making no sense and are not looking at the general picture, open your mind and see whats actually going to happen, then respond….

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/wine
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/whine

But to actually respond to your original post…. the issue is not about loot… the issue is about HOW the brand new content is being released to only a percentage of the player base… and HOW the percentage that doesn’t have access to it also doesn’t have access to the new currency.

You should read the whole thread… a lot has been said.

Everyone can participate in the content. Only the guild that started will get the merits.

A point I have stressed multiple times in this thread.

Also… everyone can participate in a portion of the new content… in the links previously posted it was specifically mentioned by the devs that there would be objectives only guild members could complete within these missions… meaning that the spectators have only a secondary role in it’s completion.

Also… that still doesn’t answer HOW the content is to be released…

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Fortuna.7259:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Zookeeper.2513:

I can see the health pool issue in PvE (mainly world event bosses) but I don’t think it would have much affect in dungeons or WvW. In dungeons, it would help multiple condi classes in a 5 man keep up with the non-condi, serker (while not cancelling each other out) builds that people are running. In WvW/sPvP I don’t think it would have an over reaching affect as the amount of passive and active condi removal is insane as it is now. I definitely believe your point on a shift, but I don’t think it would be completely overwhelming.

. . . I think it could have a huge impact in WvW if combined with zerg tactics. And if each person got their own 25 Stacks of Bleed/Poison/Burn? Condition-damage zergs might become a “thing”.

What is the big deal about dying from 100 stacks as opposed to 100 crit/power projectiles?

You can’t “evade” damage from stacks, mostly. Since this isn’t an actual thing going on and I’m not in a position to run tests? I can’t say other than to speculate weakly. WvW is not a huge strength but I’ve seen Damage over Time effects with more unrestricted stacking rules cause problems in the past.

Your argument has some merit… and is one reason my wvw skills might be better seperated from PVE… because players don’t have the same monolithic health pools that mobs have, which is what negates some builds… or possibly just removing or increasing the condition cap in pve but retaining it in wvw.

Darkdanjal.3401:

I hate it when people are actually quoting 2 words I putted in a response and are responding to it, you are actually making no sense and are not looking at the general picture, open your mind and see whats actually going to happen, then respond….

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/wine
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/whine

But to actually respond to your original post…. the issue is not about loot… the issue is about HOW the brand new content is being released to only a percentage of the player base… and HOW the percentage that doesn’t have access to it also doesn’t have access to the new currency.

You should read the whole thread… a lot has been said.

Iason Evan.3806:

Toxyn.9608:

Cuchullain.3104:

Please stop adding gated content. For the life of me I can’t understand why you put up so many barriers to having fun in GW2. Is this a game or job?

Just let guilds have fun and do the missions without prerequisites . How hard is that?

This is the other end of the spectrum that I also disagree with. If content wasn’t gated in some way, the content would be consumed within a week and then everyone would be asking for more.

The same could be said of the development team. If they aren’t tasked with creating entirely fun to repeat content, said game is doing it wrong. Gated is a lazy way to do it.

I don’t even mind gated content all that much. They could have saved a LOT of my frustration by making guild missions their own tech tree… and seperating missions that can be activated by number of members currently logged in. Problem solved.

This way… large and small guilds would have started off on equal footing… with equal opportunity to experience the new content and receive the new rewards in a timely manner.

Make the research cost in that tree extremely high… I still don’t care… at least we would have been on equal footing. Make many of the missions require 500 members online to complete… make others require 10… make some require 5…. I STILL DONT CARE…. because we would have started on equal footing… and if I needed more members I could recruit more members.

Instead I’m looking at losing members because they want to be in on ALL the fun, not just carrying other guilds to fun rewards while walking away with a handful of porous bones and some obsolete karma.

Toxyn.9608:

@Bluewanders To be honest I’m not even considering the rewards and perks in my stance. I simply think that come patch day, many guilds won’t be able to kick off their own missions and will be missing out on a lot of fun and camaraderie. Instead these guilds will have to piggyback on someone else’s parade.

That is fully half of my argument. And while it is true that outsiders can join as a spectator… it just isn’t the same thing. Just like I didn’t like being a sidekick in my personal story… I don’t want to be an advancement tool for another guild to help them earn cool stuff I can’t have.

Also… I don’t WANT to experience the new missions on anothers dime. I WANT to experience it with my guild… as a reward for our effort… as a symbol of our progress since our original guild dissolved. If I wanted to pug a lot of content I would already belong to a mega guild.

Why is it too much to ask that the first set of this type of content be released in a format that any established guild can partake in? Why is this brand new content gated behind such a big influence cost in a tree that many guilds will not have researched, even if they do have 15-20 members or more? Why are players being penalized for belonging to a more community centric guild rather than a huge impersonal guild whose only merits are numbers for influence generation?

Serophous.9085:

bluewanders.5297:

Snowy.9580:

JemL.3501:

if i were their supervisor, i would fire them all. No hard feelings is just my way of thinking, in work you should be serious and actually work the whole time…ofc getting good money and having a good working environment is a must…but no serious company would do this kind of stuff in my eyes.

glad..at least, you had your fun.

Agreed! If I jumped about like that in the Papermill I work in, I’d either end up sacked or inside a paper mulcher!
It clear that some have way to many breaks or free time, I do hope their bosses see these vids and start handing out the real fun!

Smaller companies with a much different culture have begun in recent years to treat their employees more like humans and less like cogs in a machine.

In fact… in many newer/startup companies… and smaller companies… freedoms such as this are benefits that are advertised BY the company to attract talent.

At the papermill you are an entirely replaceable set of hands… at a creative or research based company its the employees market not the employers market.

Personally… if you work for a living, why do you kill yourself working? If you have the chance to work at a company that treats you like a live human, take it… many people are.

So true. Just as i was about to send a resume to arenanet after asking questions during their one live cast, the position closed.

And its been over a week since i sent one to Riot, and no response. Some people just don’t understand how companies (especially retail) treat you like bags of meat.

I was a factory worker for a big auto maker… AND worked as a manager in retail before I went to college…

My first startup company as a professional was a real shock to the system…

Toxyn.9608:

@Jski Point missed again. It is 100% okay for large guilds to have an advantage in researching the high-end missions. What isn’t okay is that a portion of the playerbase will be excluded even from the very first missions. If the AoW Level 5 gate stays true, this is going to be a very disappointing patch for many guilds.

We won’t be excluded entirely… as many posters have pointed out we can always join one of the mega “zerg PUG hub collectives” instead of having a guild full of personally vetted members.

That is until a few months have gone by and what few members are left have managed to grind enough influence out to start a guild mission they no long have the population to complete.

And honestly… you can’t blame people for dropping their small guilds to join the machine… there are actual monetary rewards to be earned like reduced waypoint costs… along that same line of thinking you cannot blame new players to the game for joining the mega guilds either, for the same reasons.

Snowy.9580:

JemL.3501:

if i were their supervisor, i would fire them all. No hard feelings is just my way of thinking, in work you should be serious and actually work the whole time…ofc getting good money and having a good working environment is a must…but no serious company would do this kind of stuff in my eyes.

glad..at least, you had your fun.

Agreed! If I jumped about like that in the Papermill I work in, I’d either end up sacked or inside a paper mulcher!
It clear that some have way to many breaks or free time, I do hope their bosses see these vids and start handing out the real fun!

Smaller companies with a much different culture have begun in recent years to treat their employees more like humans and less like cogs in a machine.

In fact… in many newer/startup companies… and smaller companies… freedoms such as this are benefits that are advertised BY the company to attract talent.

At the papermill you are an entirely replaceable set of hands… at a creative or research based company its the employees market not the employers market.

Personally… if you work for a living, why do you kill yourself working? If you have the chance to work at a company that treats you like a live human, take it… many people are.

Sowin.5187:

Toxyn.9608:

The whole small guild vs large guild argument isn’t the point, though for some reason a lot of people are focusing on it.

Many people (rightfully) expected small guilds to have easy access to the introductory missions, average guilds would have easier access to intermediate missions, and the mega-guilds would have easier access to the high-end missions.

This could have been done by starting the research at say Level 2-3 of something, then the next step up in difficulty would require Level 4 of something, and finally the massive missions would require Level 5 of something. To gate everything behind a level 5 research is what people have an issue with, especially the WvW track. This hurts small guilds which have not invested in AoW as well as future guilds that will be starting fresh.

Well said Toxyn.

I agree entirely.

Except… I will express one cautionary statement. We don’t know that everything will be gated behind a tier 5 upgrade… only that the first content available is gated as such… and that guilds with these upgrades already completed, or nearly completed in this tier will have access to the new reward system for a good amount of time before the rest can catch up.

And we can also extrapolate based on this and his statements that it will take literally months to unlock the 5 types of guild missions… also assuming costs are tuned for large guilds only due to being in a tier 5 wvw tree… that smaller guilds might take a year or more to do the same.

That is unless we want to blow a Legendary worth of gold to get there…

Tell me again what incentive any player has to belong to a guild that isn’t 50 concurrent players or more?

Mireles Lore.5942:

I feel like the best solution for this would be to add lower level instanced guild missions for the guilds that are super small (less than 30)… and leave the open world content to the larger guild with the larger pools… Non-guild members get to participate in open world guild events, and still earn guild rewards/merits with their small member count guilds.

Everyone has a means to experience content, and every has a means to earn merits, and everyone is happy… right?

From this thread…. containing different twitter updates:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Colin-tidbits-on-February-release/first

Colin: There will be 5 types of guild missions built with influence. Bounty is one of them, available in different difficulties #foodwars

Difficulty is not the issue here… its the fact that the guild only rewards are only available to mega guilds from the get go… setting a precedent that players will remember. Small guilds will suffer because players will know if they want to make more money and spend less playing the game, they should join the Borg… I mean a big guild where they can be a nameless drone…

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/473/feature/7133/Februarys-Flame-and-Frost-Update-Detailed.html

It is not the fact that small guilds cannot eventually grind their way into this content… it is that they may lose half their player base or more on the way. And that members of big guilds will be earning more money, spending less money, and enjoying exclusive items, bonuses, and content long before smaller guild members even get to. Unless they allow themselves to be assimilated into the collective.

Mireles Lore.5942:

Have to pay tax to enjoy new content? Nothing is you to participate in a non-guild member role, or joining a larger guild except maybe some people’s leadership complex.

Yes… we will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.

emikochan.8504:

Why are small guilds complaining (5 or less) the game is full of content for you, give the larger people a bone please, something that can be done together. Anyway if you can’t get 78 gold between 5(!) people in 16(!) days, I don’t know what to say. 1 dungeon run gives 1g6s at the absolute minimum. If you want something, go out and do it sell some ectos or something – It’ll be over before you know it AND you can do guild events the whole time, they will be popping so often this month the servers will cry.

Do you belong to a big guild? I think you should have to pay a tax too when you want to enjoy some new content.

Or how about this… since I won’t get to enjoy the new content AND the new rewards for at the very least 2 weeks (if I am willing to cough up gold and time to grind for it)… you should pay my tax for me when YOU get to experience it for the first time and get your guild only rewards.

Hey… it’s only 78 gold and your guild is big… shouldn’t be too much trouble for all you guys to raise that much for me during the next two weeks while im off stuck in a dungeon all day grinding gold to pay my new content taxes.