Guild Wars 2

My point was to move forward after trait revamp. Not 1 forward 2 back.

Noss.4105:

denis.9487:

Simonoly.4352:

Reducing the added stealth duration to 50% was the right way to go and I think the game will be healthier because of it. I think it would be fine if the Might was removed from the random boon list now. Chaotic Interruption can provide you with all the Might you could possibly want- let PU be a purely defensive trait to aid new players.

So let’s reduce Mesmer even beyond pre patch trait revamp!!! Brilliant.

You think removing might from PU would be a nerf?

Yes considering not all pu use is conditional. Right runes and say Dom gm trait imagined burden.

Simonoly.4352:

Reducing the added stealth duration to 50% was the right way to go and I think the game will be healthier because of it. I think it would be fine if the Might was removed from the random boon list now. Chaotic Interruption can provide you with all the Might you could possibly want- let PU be a purely defensive trait to aid new players.

So let’s reduce Mesmer even beyond pre patch trait revamp!!! Brilliant.

We are the only class that went somewhere then came back. Holding out hope for chrono so we can be right back to where we were pre patch, trait reliant with no build diversity. twillight zone material.

nearlight.3064:

I don’t follow the EU meta very closely, but hasn’t helseth played a ton of staff/GS shatter mes in the past before the PU buff?

Anyway Kentigem, my point is that 100% duration PU was unhealthy for the game because it made it way too easy to survive as a new mesmer player. I hadn’t played mesmer in nearly a month, but played PU when I started coming back before realizing how utterly ridiculous that someone with relatively poor mechanical skill as a mesmer (at the time, I’m better now) could pick this build up, play it in zerk, and NEVER die with torch and decoy.

And what of PU mesmer being an actually great choice? How many tourneys were run since June 23rd with a PU mesmer in their core? Lets see, theres none in the abjured (backpack as a sub ran mantra) oRNG didn’t run one in their core, Helseth did somewhat poorly with it in WTS even if he did win some ESLs on TCG, Mime on Spookie still runs mantras, Zeromis runs CI, radioactive doesn’t use mesmer except with olrun for like one week, and Misha runs some staff/GS build if I remember correctly the last time I watched EU.. so it seems to me that PU zerk mesmer isn’t the meta powerhouse you think it is.

Just because metabattle says its meta, doesn’t mean its truly the objectively best build. It just means its an easy build for new people to pick up and play.

Also in general: CI, especially with staff/GS gives a ton of CC for your team, making it offensively a better choice than PU, and Illusions over chaos gives you much higher and much more frequent burst damage than PU. Doesn’t that sound more like the min-maxing success in pvp that you were referring too? Investing in better damage and better ways to ensure burst? I don’t see whats uncompetitive about that, you just need to be competent enough to not need PU to survive, which shouldn’t be that hard for an experienced mesmer.

You start by saying you don’t follow then go off on a tangent name dropping. While ci is great it doesn’t fit the role of the Mesmer. Plus 1 fights get in out burst repeat. We are basically pre patch Mesmer bottom again thief takes role.

Clone generation is held in check by shatter cooldowns. We no longer have traits that cause clones to inflict conditions when killed by enemies or ourselves. So speed would be a quality of life help.

Or better yet. Portal down entire team doesn’t use it.

nearlight.3064:

feight.2704:

nearlight.3064:

You did know that the cooldown reduction from this trait was bugged to give more than it should, right?

I mean even with just torch and decoy and no PU burning both gets the prestige down to 15 seconds after 6 seconds of stealth.

So? i don’t see why people want to nullify the Stealth options of Mesmer back to the abysmal state it was in. Even if the actual% of the cool down reduction on The Pledge doesn’t match the tooltip, doesn’t mean that it was necessarily a mistake. instead of nerfing the trait, we could just update the tooltip.

Because as a Mesmer you don’t need to camp stealth to succeed. In fact things like PU (pre today’s nerf) on their own can carry bad players by ensuring that they almost never die, while doing nothing to contribute to damage. A thief at last needs to combo skills and manage initiative in order to use stealth, for Mesmer it’s brain dead easy with the press of a button. Thankfully, stealth builds will be obseolete in the future since chronomancer won’t need it at all to survive, and revealed will be a bit more common as well.

Yeah the tooltip of the pledge should be fixed just for consistency alone. Without PU it’s fine.

Well if chrono is the savior then so be it. Imo it won’t. Mesmer needs stealth in order to survive. In structured pvp the fact can be debated but in wvw trying to survive without stealth skills is a death sentence. So if chrono is the savior then we will need de plus chrono. So much for build diversity.

With a nerf incoming and the countless forum titles already on this shows up. Sadly isn’t gonna matter in wvw you will still die to pu mesmers. Sadly pvp will become thief dominated to plus 1 fights again.

So with the trait revamp what have we gained? Extend pu take it away. Mirror blade once can trait baked in now no option. Mantras were awesome. We are the only class that seems to stay stuck in a time loop, maybe that’s the reason for chrono.

tobascodagama.2961:

Noss.4105:

I might be naive, but I believe The Pledge will be fixed in the patch.

I have to think it will, too. Seems little point in doing a balance patch with so many balance-affecting bugs still outstanding.

If that was the case then why did they nerf mirror blade when damage across the board was/is high. Why was mirror blade nerfed to stop stealth bursts yet pu is nerfed. I think the proof is in the pudding as far as nerfs go. Just nerf everything.

Cecilia.5179:

Now I can actually see those Condi PU mesmers as they try to kill me with clones.

This is the typical response why anything on Mesmer is nerfed.

I stopped using it due to the delay. Same goes for lame sword delay from skill 3.

Well big change is 3 full trait lines and once a trait line is picked have to fully use the line. Allows for 3 grand master traits. Along with some skills added in. Shatter on self is big one. No longer have to trait illusionary persona.

Kaamau.5341:

So, I wouldn’t say you will NEED it, but you will be missing out on somethings by not having it, and as a Mesmer, given how powerful Chronomancer is, you’ll be at a bit of a disadvantage.

Chronomancer will almost certainly be meta for Mesmer in every game mode, and I personally find it extremely fun to play.

I found chrono interesting but far from meta. Vanilla Mesmer I found produces better results imo.

Remember when de was mandatory…… Actually currently still is and with the changes to chrono looks like the future is the past.

Doug Whisper.2465:

What if introducing a new rune set for 5%, 8% and10% chance on hit cast aoe reveal?

I’m all for skills apply reveal so at least there is a cost to apply the effect. Both thief and Mesmer has stealth as a mechanic to deal with attackers. The hate on stealth is a game mechanic anet developed. If they choose to address stealth then I hope thief Mesmer get compensation to face tank. Also maybe since Mesmer is terrible in engagements with more than 30 people they gave us the 1 area to be a royal pain solo roaming. Our class mechanic defeats ourself in larger engagements.

johnpoc.8732:

Full of players trying to defend a completely broken build. It will get fixed eventualy, but like everything ANet does will take a loong time to do so

If by defense you meant another class that can stealth along side a thief. Or broken build like the ele wearing a giant S on their shirt and a red cape.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

AtomsOrSystems.9420:

I understand your frustration. But it’s been said before, and it will be said again: The game isn’t (can’t be) balanced around WvW roaming. It just won’t work.

Also, (as has been said before), roaming is a weird kind of beast. It basically requires a class that can 1vX multiple enemies, and can avoid/escape groups or enemies that you can’t face down. There are probably 3 or 4 builds right now that can handle that effectively. Is PU Condi the near the top? Yeah, probably.

But the biggest point is this: Roaming just doesn’t matter that much. I enjoy it, it sounds like you enjoy it, but we make pretty minimal impact to the overall WvW “score.” I can circle a borderland capping camps, even solo a tower here or there if I’m on a low tier and it’s an off-time. I can do something similar in EB. But at the end of the day, anything I do can be near-immediately undone by one or two enemies doing the exact same thing, likely in half the time.

Basically, I think it’s just not a high-priority problem for ANet. And it shouldn’t be.

EDIT: Sniped by Fay, with 1/10th of the words. And I’m ok with that.

To be fair, as has been said many times, it is far more than just roaming. Reducing the legitimacy of ppl being POed at mesmers in wvw to roaming atm is dishonest. Stealth and portals on one so hard to catch person is a genuine problem that siphon at lot of fun out of wvw.

I’m a rather bad mesmer myself and every time I play mine, even full glass, with a minimum of stealth and blink I’m next to unkillable (never mind using PU) even when the opponent has 20+ The only time I die is when I get kitteny which, to be fair, usually happen to anybody who feel so untouchable… but still… something is definitely wrong.

You start of saying your not that great yet you face 20 plus people not using pu. You my friend are the greatest Mesmer that lives. Or maybe it’s hard to factor in opponent skill hence the raging.

Metaton.2308:

Well, what I am talking about is not just about survivability.
Sacrificing some dps for better survivability and for some tricks this what I am talking about.
Ok, to understand I will write down what I mean.
Using sword/ pistol and a staff.
Still having zeker set with scholar runes and still using domination duelist and illusions.
Still dish out good damage with phantasms and sword melee, but when time comes be able to go defensive and teleport around the battlefield.
While I understand staff is not for power builds and goes better with condi damage, still gives a lot of boons and increases mobility a lot for me.
while I still know how to do the dungeon/ fractal etc. and contributing to the party in dps I am there to res and usually I am the last to go down.

Is this kind of gameplay will be rewarded with an “instant kick” or is this still acceptable by meta people?

Fay: There is a good reason why meta builds are meta. Most people need a build and they need something to grab. If everyone following the almighty meta, all the mesmers are the same. All the warriors, all the guardians etc. Might they are the most effective builds but I am telling you something. I have seen a year ago a hunter soloing Lupi, cos everyone was dead, and that person was so skilled, so good, he did not failed even once.

Yet the party at the beginning did not want to take him, because hunters are “not good” and they cannot contribute in the same way as for example a guardian.
That was before the reflect walls and feedback…
Numbers are not everything.

What you just described is the reason their is meta builds. Something the casual gamer can be successful with. The person who takes the time to understand all the games details can afford to have some wiggle room and with sheer skill still perform.

Curunen.8729:

I stand by my opinion that the tradeoff to take Chaos is minor now. With the overall damage boosts from gear/stats/amulets, those traits are no longer as mandatory as previously. MoF is bleh because you’ve got enough precision anyway, compounding power is nice but non essential, iCelerity isn’t essential when you can just wait a tiny bit longer for some skills (and having all the defensive bonuses in Chaos helps). To me they are very minor.

8s with those boons is fine for me – but then it is the boons more than the duration that I believe should be the emphasis of PU.

I don’t care about thief at all and honestly am not comparing – I’m looking at this from the point of view as a mesmer only that PU has been repeatedly buffed (with the only “nerf” being the inclusion of might and swiftness) over the years with no concrete reason or that it was even necessary.

I think you forget pre patch. Just maybe the buff to pu lets us fill the Plus 1 role. We can compete with a thief in pvp. Pre patch we could not so this idea that pu was buffed for no reason is false.

And that was already nerfed.

Noss.4105:

denis.9487:

Noss.4105:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Noss.4105:

Mesmer’s stealth shouldn’t be compared to thief. Thieves are probably the squishiest things in the game when you get one pinned down, and they have to be in melee range range to do any meaningful damage. Stealth and evades are really the only thing keeping them breathing.
I hate thieves as much as the next mesmer, but I can still look at things in neutral perspective.

I think PU is overpowered, but my feelings against it aren’t as strong as most people’s. The real beef I have with the trait is that the change to it was cheap, and doesn’t encourage more skillful or interesting play.

Thieves have an incomparable ability to kite/dance around an engagement, biding their time to choose when to strike, able to wear a target down (or catch one warn down), because they have so much front loaded instant damage- having to “get into melee” is irrelevant. So yes, perspective is everything.

I know I’m truly in danger when I cross paths with a patient thief.

Mesmers have quite a bit of instant damage aswell.

if by instant you meant weapon skills tied to illusions that must survive in order to cause damage then sure. Our personal dps is in the gutter. Hence the crying over pu since it lets you stealth burst taking a target by surprise. The same principals apply to a thief need to always assume someone is watching waiting to get you.

Mirror blade + MW from stealth is pretty much as instant as backstab.

The tell is a giant flying gs coming at you. Much more than other.

Noss.4105:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Noss.4105:

Mesmer’s stealth shouldn’t be compared to thief. Thieves are probably the squishiest things in the game when you get one pinned down, and they have to be in melee range range to do any meaningful damage. Stealth and evades are really the only thing keeping them breathing.
I hate thieves as much as the next mesmer, but I can still look at things in neutral perspective.

I think PU is overpowered, but my feelings against it aren’t as strong as most people’s. The real beef I have with the trait is that the change to it was cheap, and doesn’t encourage more skillful or interesting play.

Thieves have an incomparable ability to kite/dance around an engagement, biding their time to choose when to strike, able to wear a target down (or catch one warn down), because they have so much front loaded instant damage- having to “get into melee” is irrelevant. So yes, perspective is everything.

I know I’m truly in danger when I cross paths with a patient thief.

Mesmers have quite a bit of instant damage aswell.

if by instant you meant weapon skills tied to illusions that must survive in order to cause damage then sure. Our personal dps is in the gutter. Hence the crying over pu since it lets you stealth burst taking a target by surprise. The same principals apply to a thief need to always assume someone is watching waiting to get you.

Noss.4105:

Mesmer’s stealth shouldn’t be compared to thief. Thieves are probably the squishiest things in the game when you get one pinned down, and they have to be in melee range range to do any meaningful damage. Stealth and evades are really the only thing keeping them breathing.
I hate thieves as much as the next mesmer, but I can still look at things in neutral perspective.

I think PU is overpowered, but my feelings against it aren’t as strong as most people’s. The real beef I have with the trait is that the change to it was cheap, and doesn’t encourage more skillful or interesting play.

Like the thief pressing 1 button in stealth? Or the damage reduction trait in stealth. Moving faster in stealth. Higher crit chance in stealth. Or the fact that it was the only class that could plus 1 a fight or take that roll and be successful.

Chorazin.4107:

denis.9487:

Imo the people that want to nerf pu will cause a nerf to the Mesmer being represented in pvp. It allows Mesmer to compete with a thief and plus 1 a fight. We all have roles and that sends Mesmer back to pre patch days.

I think the argument is that the mesmer no longer competes, they outright replace the thief.

I think that is a little to soon to tell. The role to plus 1 has options now. All I meant. Mesmer still is not on equal ground in representation.

Also the mindless thoughts of clone death go hand in hand with mindless cleave. Remove cleave to effect our illusions then we would be on equal ground.

Imo the people that want to nerf pu will cause a nerf to the Mesmer being represented in pvp. It allows Mesmer to compete with a thief and plus 1 a fight. We all have roles and that sends Mesmer back to pre patch days.

Well the ability to plus 1 a fight is what makes it so potent. Before the change that role was filled by a thief. So know if you want to play a sneaky stealthy plus 1 type player you have choices. The issue is stealth in general I feel you cannot target 1 of the stealth users. In order to balance stealth Mesmer thief need other options to be successful. The roles are filled by different players to achieve a goal to win in pvp.

Plok.5873:

The kind of question no mesmer player should answer without consulting his/her lawyer and psychiatrist first.

That’s the great part of being a Mesmer!! You can create your own lawyer psychiatrist and another. If your not happy with those answers just shatter and try again.

All the issues with scepter I understand. My problem is in wvw or pvp I hate the new sword leap. It is really bad the delay causes all sorts of problems with my combos. I find myself not leaping and doing the next action with no immobilize. Sword might be meta in pve but I hate it in pvp/wvw the delay ruins the weapon.

Sparda.9750:

guys u forgot a thing: BS goes on back, because in front deals half damage.. mesmer does not have any sort of direction to burst
more important, the stealth of mesmer is insta, with a button pressed, the thief’s one is not insta..
after burst u have to consider the survability because if u die after the openeer combo u are useless
i saw so many numbers and so few considerations
you can run berserker then!! more damage

If your trying to say finding the flanks or back is difficult in stealth…… Really?

maeggle.6021:

Fay.2357:

Most of your post is just random whining, but I’ll take this bit:

Call it whatever you want… It’s just a list of mesmer strengths, backed by explanations, which we currently have to deal with when facing a shatter / lockdown mesmer.

Fay.2357:

Backstab + auto chain = 4.66 skill coeff. Mug is something more, but not listed.

Simple mesmer shatter:

• Mirror Blade: 2 * 0.7 = 1.40
• Mind Wreck: 3 * 0.89 = 2.67
• Mental Anguish: 0.30
• Mind Stab: 1.0 (can be aborted early and still get the full effect)
• Vulnerability: 1 + (3 + 5) * 0.005 = 0.04

adds up to 5.41 in ~1 second. Then we also got at least 8 might stacks from MB and CI (all considering that you interrupted your target before landing the above skills so you benefit from the traits. After that your DPS drops a bit and you either spam autoattack (at least 0.5 over 1.5 seconds), go for another interrupt or swap weapons. At this time a thief used steal, backstabbed (hopefully from a flanking position) and triggered mug. Total over 2.5 seconds is roughly 6.

Let’s compare that to D/P thief:

• Backstab: 2.4
• Mug: 1.7
• AA: 0.56 + 2 * 0.85 = 2.26
• Exposed Weakness: 0.1
• Lead Attack: ~0.05

adds up to roughly 6.51. Here’s the crux with that: It is chained, doesn’t rip nearly as much boons, is more spread out, mug doesn’t crit, except for the AA chain it’s single-target and thieves are running Marauder instead of Zerker. Thus the actual damage output is way lower even against single targets.

Fay.2357:

In other words, you’re wrong.

Still have to prove me wrong.

Fay.2357:

Good luck landing that combo on someone paying attention when you’re not engaging from stealth. Mirror blade is slow and obvious. The only way you can reliably land it without stealth is with a CI proc…which means you’ve already been fighting and got interrupted by the mesmer in order to land it.

I don’t even know what you’re trying to argue here. I never complained about instagibbing from stealth but about fights that may take longer than one MW rotation.
Btw, it’s quite easy for a mesmer to interrupt their target. The benefit is huge both for themselves as well as for their team when they participate in a team fight. At some point the opponent has to activate skills. It’s the mesmer’s fault when they don’t bait dodges enough to land one power lock. There’s still plenty time to cast an iZerker or MB while the target at some point lacks invuln, steady blocks or condition removal / stun breaks.

Fay.2357:

Sure, removing boons with the shatter is a pretty key thing that mesmers do, I’ll give you that one.

It’s a niche aspect which mesmer is strong at. I think it’s a good trait, it’s just too much combined all the other aspects available to mesmer power builds. (which doesn’t mean SC has to go, but other things should be looked at to avoid stacking so many beneficial effects in one specific build)

Fay.2357:

Except you sorta do. As I just said, it’s very difficult to land that shatter combo on someone paying attention if you’re not engaging from stealth. While stealth isn’t an integral part of the mesmer burst like it is for thief, it still remains extremely important.

So you’re trying to tell me that you have to abuse a kittened up mechanic which lacks serious counterplay except for playing guessing games, to be able to play mesmer effectively. That would make the profession even more broken in its core design if that was the case.

Luckily, I can tell you that some mesmers are able to setup their stun + damage chains without heavily relying on stealth, and they still do very well. An ele can mitigate pretty much all the Mind Wrack shatters, that’s true. But it’s also quite easy to lock even those down before initiating your actual damage chains. You just have to play the patient game a bit, which you’re able to, thanks to all the defensive abilities mentioned earlier. Anything else probably lacks the neccessary access to vigor and evade-skills.

You add a crux to thief burst yet ignore the Mesmer crux? Our burst is tied to paper thin illusions and ai!! If looking at the burst then the thief is higher in a perfect world. Like how you favored the thief crux though.

maybe a dueling build but every time a add enters the fight your illusion generation will be seriously stressed till your just kiting and blocking, our blocks do not mitigate all damage and we have to wait to dodge to proc the clone extra effect from the block. Seems really thin.

maeggle.6021:

msalakka.4653:

Good. Thieves didn’t seem to mind killing us with their eyes closed for years; I hope they enjoy them apples.

Thieves haven’t been top-tier fighters for a long time now. They got and still get very much countered by probably any other decent power (except for warrior), hybrid and condition build on any other profession at the moment. They had an advantage over power mesmers, but now there’s nothing left to keep mesmers in check anymore except for some special snowflake builds and celementalists (which we probably agree on, also need more than getting looked at).

Some former main mesmer players I know and play with switched to other professions because they consider the current state of mesmers unbearable, some of them even expressed, they don’t think they can get better at the game when the profession and their players rely on the current imbalances.

So tired of the last paragraph. If by unbearable or imbalanced you mean Mesmer actually is on par with other classes besides burning ele. Mesmer is in a good place that needs some fine tuning. Still waiting to see the Mesmer represented and dominating at a higher level.

Mesmer is a superior duel class as long as you don’t place any mental constraints or silly rules.

While I agree ms is lack luster as a gm but using it makes the scepter far less clunky. I’m using it in a power shatter build. Gs scepter/torch. The auto attacks hit for 1.5 damage the block can be used on the move so your not rooted like blurred frenzy, and #3 hits for over 8k and is pretty fast using the trait. Honestly using the trait makes the scepter feel like a normal weapon, just showing the current state of the scepter.

Imo one thing not mentioned is at what cost to get this utility. We actually have to give and take. Ele guard have an easier time providing this utility while providing dps.

To the op what build where you using as an engy? If he continued to run into the brick wall and lose would that make him a better player? He tried then switched builds and beat you. Sounds reasonable to me.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

@ people discussing Mesmer and Warrior and things that are OP ~

This is WvW where at least 80% of the players you encounter suck. I’m not saying Holl is bad, because I know he’s far from it. But he’s one of the few. I’m just another mediocre player myself and I wouldn’t doubt I’m in someone’s video out there getting rekt too.

You shouldn’t ever try to judge what’s balanced from a WvW perspective… Nothing in WvW is balanced. Which honestly, is why I consider it more skillful to outplay someone there than in PvP. Because so many builds in WvW have unfair advantages that if you win, it’s purely outplaying your opponent.

I agree 100% sadly not all believe this. Just check choppy post record.

Pretty funny since the healing signet is better now. Glad you found the humor.

The way you want it is dumb down all builds. That warrior 2v1 separated and destroyed all classes. So yes we make videos to watch I get that but it’s the same thing warrior guard Mesmer video. No one would watch down fights.

I hear the same thing over. Yet the proof is in the video. That person owned people. What more proof do you need? The ability to play is all that is in question.

The same stuff is being done in this video as any others. The game play is great. The correlation seems it’s ok for warrior but not ok for Mesmer since so many visited or crashed Mesmer forum looking for nerfs. Wanted my Mesmer voice heard since the same is being done. You choose to become personal.

Mantra of distraction 2 or 3 charges (no de if 3)1 shatter on a plus 30 second timer. If you slot mantra of distraction then condition management tanks. It is a give and take not all take as you believe.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/Vid-The-SwordMaster-WvW-Roaming
Fix your own Nike warrior before coming here. Only difference is you actually see the warrior run away and re-engage with Mesmer its pu.

For those who don’t know. Choppy launched a Nerf pu campaign due to watching a video of a Mesmer blowing people up. So all in all seems like a pretty poor sport. Stated in warrior forums let things settle before calling for nerfs in preparation for hot yet went to Mesmer forums to Nerf pu (1day later because more mesmers where seen in wvw) because well it is used like this build.

@choppy
When did it become personal? Plenty of mesmers destroyed in this video along with other classes. Should it be used to call for nerfs in wvw as a roaming build? This is just for roaming correct. Far better builds out there. Sounds all to familiar to what was said on Mesmer side.

Choppy.4183:

@Holl
Correction, my gear’s a little different than yours. I use:

1. Full zerk, including weapons. My weapons are ascended, so crit chance is solid
2. Pack runes, which are amazing, as are Hoelbrak. Not sure which is best.
3. Fire, Air, Energy, and Intelligence sigils. Intelligence on the sword, ofc

On the runes, the might extension as obvious synergy with Forceful Greatsword, and the condi duration reduction is obviously fantastic. Pack Runes give perma fury, which is probably excessive given the fury Arcing Slice gives, and the swiftness and bonus 125 precision is nice too. They really shine in a group.

So, by yourself I think Hoelbrak comes out the clear winner for this setup. In a havoc though, Pack probably wins out. I was thinking about making some ascended armor, so maybe I’ll throw Hoelbrak on there so I have both.

This is the same stuff Mesmer gets flamed for. Your out running zergs!! 16k damage?? Nerf the warrior!!! The only difference is you can see the warrior disengage re-engage Mesmer is invisible.

Actually running the scepter in wvw with all power and the trait in illusions is producing some pretty fun results. The beam hits for over 8k once all buffs and some might maybe 3/4. The auto attack hits over 1.5k per attack in the chain. Number 2 is a block that doesn’t root you so can move and use it. So imo scepter is pretty good in a power build in wvw applications.