Guild Wars 2

Urejt.5648:

actually moa is not op. Perma 5 clones and perma phantasm are op as kitten. Resummon phantasm needs like 20 sec cooldown.

It started good. Lol

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

Thank you for the well thought out reply. I do have to confess about liking some of your points specially the all users one….there is just one problem with it.

You are wrong.

Ooh ooh I can do this too!

See, there’s just one problem with your reply.

You are wrong.

Why would one type out a long reply when that person is predicting an infraction?

Might as well wait for a post that isn’t going to be deleted right?

Predicting an infraction and get one must be truth. Just like nerfing a whole build instead of shaving then claiming magical insight or agreeing is truth.

Azukas.1426:

denis.9487:

Azukas.1426:

Exciton.8942:

Azukas.1426:

messiah.1908:

Azukas.1426:

messiah.1908:

i see still some ppl understand it all wrong

its not mesmer meta. as atm mesmer is being used as portal and moa bot.
if they gave thief little bit sustain or more ability to handle 1v1 better he could easily take this role
also you saw good rotations just shut down mesmer portal. and if being ignored mesmer rotation was shutting down the enemy team. you could see how mesmer usually got the first place in points as he mostly decap/cap/ contest points.
now rotation.
for every class and build there is some degree of counter build
watching the stream and comp scepter over sword is much better as you cant stack 2 necro and i didnt see guards.
thus memser could easily take down any ele as the ele need to watch out for shatters and weapon skills as well. sword hardly being utilize in the right way.
also you saw how pro players can handle versus moa ppl so complain about.
mesmer atm taking the part of thief with decaping points. and also with good sustain on point and good 1v1 . if thief could be great in 1v1 (not good as he doesnt have sustain) i think we could see thief instead of mesmer
if any nurf will come to moa or portal mesmer will be out of meta thus its not mesmer meta rather portalmoa meta.

some teams fail to pressure the mesmer but when they do the enemy fell apart.

So which pro team are you on?

Mesmer is meta and the only way a thief could take our spot is if they get some serious power creep

again its not mesmer meta rather moa and portal meta. without portal and or moa mesmer would not have been chosen.
you saw teams without mesmer which also won versus the mesmer team as they knew how to counter the rotations. you saw how tempest could easily survive and support his fellow teammates and also evade the moa dmg…

its like ele needed for their support cleanse and heals
engi for their sustain on a point
ranger for their sustain and res and bit dmg
necro for their condi skills on a point
rev for its dmg
mesmer for their moa and portal mainly (as if team just 1v1 unless its engi they bit fail with rotations

More teams ran mesmer than teams that did not. The best teams ran mesmer, and i’m willing to bet week 2 will see most teams copying the composition that the last NA game ran.

As a mesmer main I can honestly say Anet did a great job with my class in terms of nerfing/balancing. We remain in the meta and not super OP. We can contribute in all aspects of a match. We as a class are FINE and need nothing.

If you can’t see this then you should look at the 3 classes that are actually hurting at this time.

Great job?

Please explain to me why the following changes = great job.

1. Alacrity gets gutted. Now alacrity-related traits are useless even if you go for full support. For the whole chrono line, the only usefull traits left are illusion spamming ones. That’s why condie becomes meta since it benefits a lot from more illusions.

2. Well of precog made completely useless. Long CD/long cast time/useless support effect. It will never appear on any decent player’s utility bar

3. Scepter trait buff. Most ppl still don’t use it even in a condie build. The trait buff is meaningless.

So I don’t understand how you can consider Anet’s balance patch did a good job on shaping out mesmer.

1. Alacrity was cancer. I applaud anet for doing what was right.

2. Once again going with the theme of cancer we once again arrive there.

3. Small buffs to see if they pan out is the proper way to go about things. Could you imagine if they just threw a huge power creep at scepter with Condi mesmer being as good as it is now? I think they understood this thus went with a slight buff on scepter to see how it pans out.

I’m sorry if you disagree with the changes, but it was needed in the grand scheme of things.

Read your own post on 3. If that’s the case then nerfing should be done the same way.

Normally shaves is best…unfortunately the situation of last season needed called for the severity of that action.

As a mesmer I understand and support their decision. We should all be glad we got to ride that gravy train for so long.

If we just follow logic even the logic you posted in your own response is to buff slow. So then nerfing surely must follow the same logical path. But at this point logic is long gone like chronobunker.

Azukas.1426:

Exciton.8942:

Azukas.1426:

messiah.1908:

Azukas.1426:

messiah.1908:

i see still some ppl understand it all wrong

its not mesmer meta. as atm mesmer is being used as portal and moa bot.
if they gave thief little bit sustain or more ability to handle 1v1 better he could easily take this role
also you saw good rotations just shut down mesmer portal. and if being ignored mesmer rotation was shutting down the enemy team. you could see how mesmer usually got the first place in points as he mostly decap/cap/ contest points.
now rotation.
for every class and build there is some degree of counter build
watching the stream and comp scepter over sword is much better as you cant stack 2 necro and i didnt see guards.
thus memser could easily take down any ele as the ele need to watch out for shatters and weapon skills as well. sword hardly being utilize in the right way.
also you saw how pro players can handle versus moa ppl so complain about.
mesmer atm taking the part of thief with decaping points. and also with good sustain on point and good 1v1 . if thief could be great in 1v1 (not good as he doesnt have sustain) i think we could see thief instead of mesmer
if any nurf will come to moa or portal mesmer will be out of meta thus its not mesmer meta rather portalmoa meta.

some teams fail to pressure the mesmer but when they do the enemy fell apart.

So which pro team are you on?

Mesmer is meta and the only way a thief could take our spot is if they get some serious power creep

again its not mesmer meta rather moa and portal meta. without portal and or moa mesmer would not have been chosen.
you saw teams without mesmer which also won versus the mesmer team as they knew how to counter the rotations. you saw how tempest could easily survive and support his fellow teammates and also evade the moa dmg…

its like ele needed for their support cleanse and heals
engi for their sustain on a point
ranger for their sustain and res and bit dmg
necro for their condi skills on a point
rev for its dmg
mesmer for their moa and portal mainly (as if team just 1v1 unless its engi they bit fail with rotations

More teams ran mesmer than teams that did not. The best teams ran mesmer, and i’m willing to bet week 2 will see most teams copying the composition that the last NA game ran.

As a mesmer main I can honestly say Anet did a great job with my class in terms of nerfing/balancing. We remain in the meta and not super OP. We can contribute in all aspects of a match. We as a class are FINE and need nothing.

If you can’t see this then you should look at the 3 classes that are actually hurting at this time.

Great job?

Please explain to me why the following changes = great job.

1. Alacrity gets gutted. Now alacrity-related traits are useless even if you go for full support. For the whole chrono line, the only usefull traits left are illusion spamming ones. That’s why condie becomes meta since it benefits a lot from more illusions.

2. Well of precog made completely useless. Long CD/long cast time/useless support effect. It will never appear on any decent player’s utility bar

3. Scepter trait buff. Most ppl still don’t use it even in a condie build. The trait buff is meaningless.

So I don’t understand how you can consider Anet’s balance patch did a good job on shaping out mesmer.

1. Alacrity was cancer. I applaud anet for doing what was right.

2. Once again going with the theme of cancer we once again arrive there.

3. Small buffs to see if they pan out is the proper way to go about things. Could you imagine if they just threw a huge power creep at scepter with Condi mesmer being as good as it is now? I think they understood this thus went with a slight buff on scepter to see how it pans out.

I’m sorry if you disagree with the changes, but it was needed in the grand scheme of things.

Read your own post on 3. If that’s the case then nerfing should be done the same way.

Azukas.1426:

Exciton.8942:

Azukas.1426:

Exciton.8942:

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

1. Alacrity was cancer. I applaud anet for doing what was right. [citation needed]

2. Once again going with the theme of cancer we once again arrive there. [citation needed]

I’m sorry if you disagree with the changes, but it was needed in the grand scheme of things. [citation needed]

https://youtu.be/_X9bH3udBsI

So would you like to try and explain how what they did to well of precognition was justfied?

Was precog too strong? Of course it was. Was the series of nerfs they slapped it with justified? Obviously not. The skill barely performs a function now, it’s incredibly weak.

You’ve also failed to justify the alacrity nerf. Alacrity was nerfed due to PvE considerations, not PvP. You may want to touch up on your history there.

Through all the nerfs our mesmers are still in the meta. A meta which is leaps and bounds better than that cancer we were forced to sit through last season.

There were no over nerfs to mesmers. The bunker build had to die. There was no other way, and the fact that anet kept us in the meta post mortem is a testament to how well thought out the nerf was. One could even argue that mesmer was so broken OP that even after a drubbing with the nerf bat we are still very strong.

Food for thought

There ARE absolutely other ways rather than completely killing off skills and mechanics. It is just Anet being super lazy on this matter. Even if they don’t nerf precog well and alacrity. Bunker mes would be out of meta(not completely dead) because of quickness/slow change and removal of bunker amulets.

Also, I am not even asking a viable build comparable to the current clone spaming condie mes. I am simply asking for so-so alternatives I can sometimes play for fun. Why is clone spaming the only way to play chrono? Current iteration of such skills/traits don’t provide any value as an alternative.

There is a difference between nerfs and over-nerfs.

You need to ask yourself this simple question.

When has Arenanet ever killed a build off?

The damage chronobunker did to the game was why it got rightfully gutted. Doesn’t matter about the collateral damage because the whole health of the game is more important.

But we are still meta and everyone here owes anet an apology.

lol at ‘we are meta’ kinda mentality.

Did you forget the season 1 final where the scene is dominated by double rev composition? Mes are meta only because ESL enforced a no-stacking rule. If mes were better choice, why should Misha(a top tier mes) reroll necro?

Also, you keep ignoring the difference between nerf and over-nerf. To me, nerf something ppl don’t like out-of-meta is enough. To nerf something so that it will never be played in any builds is over-nerf.

Revs are a different story, and this thread is about Mesmers being meta regardless of the “sky is falling” crowd!!!!

So rejoice!!!!

As for over nerf. Nope I expected it and applaud Anet for it. There has never been a more cancerous loathed meta in the history of GW2. At the core of that was the chronobunker. It needed to die and be killed w/out mercy. It was done, and the game is better for it.

So no matter what you say, do, or feel I AM right in this. This isn’t a debatable…it is fact. I do hope in the future that anet can work what was nerfed back into the game. I just feel the complete nuking of the build until a balanced rework was the right course of action.

Some posts back you claim that the small buff to scepter is in relation to condition damage. Yet you applaud massive nerfs. Your theory is to totally destroy then slowly build up. How about eliminate the whole middle step. Start nerfing slowly.

Azukas.1426:

Silverkey.2078:

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

So would you like to try and explain how what they did to well of precognition was justfied?

Was precog too strong? Of course it was. Was the series of nerfs they slapped it with justified? Obviously not. The skill barely performs a function now, it’s incredibly weak.

You’ve also failed to justify the alacrity nerf. Alacrity was nerfed due to PvE considerations, not PvP. You may want to touch up on your history there.

Through all the nerfs our mesmers are still in the meta. A meta which is leaps and bounds better than that cancer we were forced to sit through last season.

There were no over nerfs to mesmers. The bunker build had to die. There was no other way, and the fact that anet kept us in the meta post mortem is a testament to how well thought out the nerf was. One could even argue that mesmer was so broken OP that even after a drubbing with the nerf bat we are still very strong.

Food for thought

You have a way to use “absolute” statements as if they were self-given. But they are not.

No the bunker build did not need to die. It needed a nerf, sure, but support builds should have a place in the game. I don’t enjoy a 5-bruiser team, I don’t find it fun. Yet that is what gw2 is converging to again. Everybody runs paladin or mercenary, everybody can heal, everybody can CC, everybody can damage, this is just ridiculous. I like playing support, which is why I ran bunker chrono since BWE1 (at a time where it was not nearly as effective as when finally released). But now, I just cannot justify playing the build because despite my attempts, it just does not provide enough support to justify using it.

The reason this build was “cancer” is because of the too high personal survivability and the too easy rez. The amulet change and the end of quickness rez already removed an important part of the usefulness of the build. Precog needed to be changed, but not the way it was done.

We don’t provide much on-demand healing, alacrity (and to a lesser extent quickness) was our saving grace, but they are a bit too weak right now (partly because they are hard to share properly).

I don’t want OP builds, I want build diversity. There are only 9 classes in this game, if they don’t provide some diversity, this makes the game rather poor.

1st: The overwhelming majority of players and dev team are on my side in regards to bunker mes. So yes it is an absolute and what I say is FACT. If it were not I’d be in the minority w/out dev support like you.

2nd: Thank you for clearing it all up. You are upset because anet took away your God mode. I can understand your frustrations that you are going through. It gets better trust me. If you want to take this to PM so we don’t litter a thread with this I’m willing to help you.

Have a nice day

If you agree with the devs that does not give you a free pass to claim an absolute. He didn’t ask for god mode. He asked to simply shave instead of axe. Something we all have asked many times.

Lexander.4579:

its sad that people need “pro playurs” to show them how broken mesmers are but maybe at least now mesmer mains will stop yelling that mesmer is little short from being unviable

It’s sad you think this way. If you have read this thread the only reason Mesmer is taken are for 2 skills. Give those 2 skills to anyone and the same thing happens. Also since we have those 2 said skills it seems we are balanced rather poorly. Honestly all classes should have a transform/portal type spell then we would see the true disparity in classes. Having those skills gives us an identity but with a high cost. Imo

Tomiyou.3790:

Just today I fought a power shatter mesmer as d/d ele in WvW. He was using a variant of the current PvP meta build, without any condi damage. And holy kitten, I just couldn’t take him down. For real. He had sooo many clones from the chronomancer traitline, permanent condi removal and healing through inspiration. He was using sword/shield and staff, kiting ability was insane. Like wtf. How are you suppose to beat that? His shield block is still kinda op, why can chrono summon Echo of memory phantasm 2 times, both of which sometimes procced without me even hitting him (possibly evasive arcana air dodge?)
Mid fight I was trying to find a way to kill him, even tho I took him down to 20% a couple of times, he just pressed F1, F2, F3, F4 and used signet of illusions. Full health. He had near perma stab with his chaos treeline (stab on shatter), tons of boons from chaos storm and chaos armor, massive amounts of daze from chaos storm again. Sigh. Even tho we fought for 15mins straight, that had to be the most boring thing I have done in the history of my life, it legit made me want to quit Gw2 and go play Tetris.

So, how do you beat this build? Alt+F4?
Note: And no, I wasn’t using bunker ele: 2,5k armor, 2,1k power and 15k vit.

Why is this the Mesmer issue?? Your running a build clearly with serious sustain and kiting as well. Imagine or put yourself into that Mesmer shoes (clone). Prolly hated the 15 min engagement with you as well.

You could go sword/shield scepter/torch. I dislike staff but that’s me.

I just wanted the reason. I still find it interesting pu has still so much hate. Even after nerfs. I suppose another thread.

Jace al Thor.6745:

denis.9487:

StickerHappy.8052:

phokus.8934:

StickerHappy.8052:

phokus.8934:

StickerHappy.8052:

phokus.8934:

You don’t need condition removal as a mandatory function to make Mesmer work.

Know your enemy first and foremost and learn to disengage when you need to.

This is false. I do not know on what MMR you play at but in High MMR matches, you might as well just afk if you do not have any cleanses.

Knowing your enemy is like 5% of the equation. You will never ever beat any condition class without a cleanse. It’s impossible. (Assuming equal skill)

Every class needs condition removal of atleast 1 source.

What you said makes you sound like a bad player who needs a crutch.

Again, I do not know what MMR you play in, so I am assuming you are facing average players.

And you’re clearly a bad player. Case in point, this thread.

Okay, 1v1 my ranger with no condi cleanse. Let’s bet gold on it. NO condi cleanse means no sigils either.

And please no PU.

I can understand the condition cleanse stipulation. But still the hate on pu???

If it’s a 1v1 why would you need PU? I don’t care much for PU because I love Bountiful Disillusionment too much now over it but if you have to rely on PU to win then you’re as bad a player as phokus claims Stickers is.

If pu creates a win. It’s a win. Such a shame to think any other way.

StickerHappy.8052:

phokus.8934:

StickerHappy.8052:

phokus.8934:

StickerHappy.8052:

phokus.8934:

You don’t need condition removal as a mandatory function to make Mesmer work.

Know your enemy first and foremost and learn to disengage when you need to.

This is false. I do not know on what MMR you play at but in High MMR matches, you might as well just afk if you do not have any cleanses.

Knowing your enemy is like 5% of the equation. You will never ever beat any condition class without a cleanse. It’s impossible. (Assuming equal skill)

Every class needs condition removal of atleast 1 source.

What you said makes you sound like a bad player who needs a crutch.

Again, I do not know what MMR you play in, so I am assuming you are facing average players.

And you’re clearly a bad player. Case in point, this thread.

Okay, 1v1 my ranger with no condi cleanse. Let’s bet gold on it. NO condi cleanse means no sigils either.

And please no PU.

I can understand the condition cleanse stipulation. But still the hate on pu???

countytime.8134:

An easy way to tell what classes are overpowered is to see which are overplayed. In the case of mesmers you’ll see them taking or defending objectives entirely on their own. Contrast that with some classes that you almost never see wandering in WvW.

There are a lot of classes that are powerful but can still be taken in a fair fight; necros, elementalists, rangers. But Mesmers have too many overpowered tools.

Your basis is in wvw. What is fair there? The largest blob wins. Running away. Using a tower/keep/camp is not fair. Random creatures attacking is not fair. Have you ever went to spike someone to have them rally of that wolf?? So fair. If you want fair play pvp. That’s when you see how sad Mesmer is.

Our field blasting sucks anyways. Chaos armor has/was been rather underwhelming. Imo

Someone leaving the fight in wvw (open space and ability to run to safety of others)has been a Mesmer problem since the start of this game. Usually people only die if they insist at fighting. Just going about your business nullifies these types of builds. They are a pita to fight hence all the hate generated in forum posts. Best advice is drop staff. Switch to power shatter using Gs. Better run stopping.

Xyonon.3987:

Fay.2357:

Xyonon.3987:

We could also build vita and act like everything is fine Q_Q

Which would help how exactly? Vitality has no interaction with illusions.

Tested it with a friend, Vita scales HP of phants, not sure about clones tough.

Unless they ninja added this the information here is not correct. Vitality has no bearing on clones or phantasms.

Wvw is a massive power creep. I sit on full ascended use best food and that sharpening stone that adds ferocity. Basically running chrono/inspiration/chaos. Gs/scepter torch. Whomever gave the advice that more power is needed is correct. I sit at 2400 70 crit chance and 220 crit damage. Imo wvw is an arms race, increase your damage stats lose those runes. My chrono pu power keeps slamming into them they all fall eventually. And b4 someone knocks I take plenty of dirt naps. But it’s wvw. Never know what’s out there.

Mesmer cannot have anything nice. As far as counter play don’t kill clones. The thought of mindless clone spam goes hand in hand with the cleave. Is it fair to kill all resources that we have by cleave or aoe spam? Another question I suppose.

The first post he doesn’t claim anything. Just seems funny fighting over traits anyone can use. As far as I’m aware no patents have been issued for builds. The same way you took the time to trace his post history so can we. Not really contributing by arguing over who was the first person to take a trait combine it and call it a build.

Since unlocking chrono I have since switched to condition to roam in wvw. My old rune of choice was traveler for the speed. As we know chrono lets us finally move at a respectable rate. So what runes have people been running? Thanks in advance.

Thanks for the help advice. Didn’t know about wvw. Also probably a little overwhelmed.

Pvp is ok just my time was spent in wvw also. Pvp gets stale and since the release of hot in order to play the elite specs it forces you to do something. Just the force feeding of pve content I’m struggling with.

I have purchased hot but find myself unable to play. Before hot you could play how you want I never did living story. Played wvw/pvp, but now I’m forced to unlock before I can play how I want and needed to pay to play pve?? Just find myself forced to do things I don’t want. Sadly this is not the same game.

Rune of the beserker 6th bonus is bugged?.?

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

“CS doesn’t make Mesmer as a whole easier to play, it makes a somewhat hard-to-grasp meta build more forgiving.”

That’s it. I can only laugh at trolls for so long. My laughing time is up, and my brain start to hurt is starting to role in. Of course it doesn’t make the whole of mesmer easier to play. It just makes people who choose that trait and MoD in duels easier to play. Which is why CS should get changed. I don’t mind traits that make a class significantly easier to play unless it’s also the most effective at the top tier. Playing something at the top tier should be challenging and CS just made that a lot less so. Add some more counterplay and you make it so other skilled players can atleast deal with it. And no, I do not consider myself top tier but I think of other people not just myself. Should have ditched this thread the instant some of the people from that dungeon chronomancer discussion entered.

So long trolls.

Duels should now be naked! Take 10 steps then fire the duelist or pistol 5!!

If de was made baseline then I honestly believe you could take any 3 trait lines and be successful. Not meta success but at least true build diversity would exist.

Fay.2357:

denis.9487:

Regardless the amount of players playing at that level it tells us what is viable. The skill is what is present. They have practiced honed and devoted many hours we simply don’t have or don’t want to allot to become at that level. If looking at physical skill (10 fingers) then all that is needed is practice. The people at that level have tried other builds I’m sure just due to the sheer amount of time to perfect the skill. So it is meta for a reason. Whether we can do the same is irrelevant. It shows what is viable.

Sorta. It also shows us what they enjoy playing the most. Helseth probably could have done better on thief for a long time, but he stubbornly stuck with mesmer (not judging him for that, just pointing it out).

I’m saving this post!! Fay agreed sorta

Regardless the amount of players playing at that level it tells us what is viable. The skill is what is present. They have practiced honed and devoted many hours we simply don’t have or don’t want to allot to become at that level. If looking at physical skill (10 fingers) then all that is needed is practice. The people at that level have tried other builds I’m sure just due to the sheer amount of time to perfect the skill. So it is meta for a reason. Whether we can do the same is irrelevant. It shows what is viable.

So bad that in pve sword 2 off hands is meta. Worse case staff or gs with sword/focus but scepter needs some love. I reluctantly use it in wvw/pvp (no other option)because I hate the sword swap but that’s me.

Embolism.8106:

Power PU works because Dom and Duel gave us most of our burst. Your third spec isn’t going to add much burst so using it for defence isn’t a big tradeoff.

If you’re going to use two non-offensive specs then that starts to break down. You’d be better off going Condi PU then as Condi only needs one spec, Illusions, for most of its offensive power.

This would only work in wvw where power creep rules. But you can run now inspiration/dueling/chaos and be a pita when roaming. Full ascended, consumables, guard stacks running with power gear. It plays like a tank conditions held in check, pu to help cover openings or disengages and with almost 3k power once stacks maxed your shatters hurt. You have to give up inspirations so condition management would suffer but in wvw with all the open space to run and reset if condition overloaded I think could work.

One could argue a gimmick is still a gimmick no matter the key presses. Reminds me of that article, if you memorize a combo does that make you a great player? The ele imo is the worse example possible. Ele is a great damage dealer but a phenomenal field (useful) provider. I dig chrono but feel time will tell whether a gimmick or actually needed. Hopefully something is done to help our illusions being killed so we can contribute dps wise along with chrono.

Chrono is the new portal. Mesmer is cursed.

denis.9487:

So if solo roaming doesn’t effect balancing. Stealth does not cap nodes in our pvp. In wvw stealth traps and others can sweep same as before. Why was pu nerfed?

The question wasn’t directed towards anyone. Just a question to inspire thought. Sorry if offense was perceived.

So if solo roaming doesn’t effect balancing. Stealth does not cap nodes in our pvp. In wvw stealth traps and others can sweep same as before. Why was pu nerfed?

I don’t know how to explain it but I feel it’s deeper. We as mesmers were given tools that other classes don’t have. Portal great skill defines our role but imo holds us back. Chrono is coming this will do the same. Either balance better which is an issue imo. Or give all classes the same op “stuff” to balance. I think the ideas portal chrono are awesome but they are crosses to carry as well as cool concepts.

I am bitter since post trait patch we are on a downward spiral. Just like portal chrono will be the newest item to nerf us. I just wish they could balance better.

Daniel Handler.4816:

denis.9487:

Thanks for testing. Was posted earlier I am not at computer.

Your welcome. However I completely disagree with you saying that the stealth duration does not matter.

The stealth duration was everything. The boons were dropped to a 1 in 5 chance. The protection duration for most skills is now limited to a 2 in 5 chance on the first tick(as every 15 seconds gaining regen gains you protection). After that there is a 1 in 5 chance of gaining the boon. Having 3 ticks of protection is around 2%. What this means is that for truly meaningful protection uptime you should take chaotic dampening. Which is intended. If you want meaningful regen uptime take the inspiration tree. If you want meaningful aegis take staff. If you want meaningful swiftness take signet of inspiration/focus. If you want meaningful might take shattered strength in the illusion tree.

If you wanted meaningful duration on the boons you received you should have gone for bountiful disillusionment. PU boons are meant to augment other existing traits. The reason it is there is for the stealth.

Max duration without pu is 20 seconds
with: 30 seconds (almost like it increased it by 50%)
with pu+ alacrity: max is 39+, having difficulty calculating beyond that I know you can at least reach 39 seconds.

My assumption at this point is that you can reach 45 continuous seconds. But that perma continuous steath is no longer possible even with alacrity. (It was and they had nerfed alacrity once partially to deal with it). The nerf didn’t solve the problem so they seemed to go to the source.

I think we crossed paths. I am not advocating the boons are better. I was under the assumption fractions of a second do not count.

atlrising.5134:

Land of Cheese.2584:

Since boons don’t last fractional seconds, and Anet’s code rounds down, the “new PU” is exactly the same as the old PU in duration with the exception of adding 2 seconds to Mass Invisibility rather than the 1 second of yore.

PU has the following impacts:
Decoy: From 3 seconds to 4 seconds (50% of 3 is 1.5, 1.5 rounded down is 1).
Veil: From 2 seconds to 3 seconds (50% of 2 is 1, no rounding applied).
The Prestige: From 3 seconds to 4 seconds (50% of 3 is 1.5, rounded down is 1).
Mass Invisibility: From 5 seconds to 7 seconds (50% of 5 is 2.5, rounded down is 2).

The effect of this change, at least from a stealth perspective, is put PU, basically, exactly where it was before the big trait revamp. It is, once again, not worth using. It’s gone the way of Fiery Greatsword, Ice Bow, and any other “OP” treat players have enjoyed that’s been nerfed into oblivion.

I forgot all about that in my video but your right, boons dont last half seconds.

What I was referring to.

Thanks for testing. Was posted earlier I am not at computer.

Daniel Handler.4816:

denis.9487:

The stealth duration was not the issue. I believe the fraction of seconds will not apply a boon it rounds down.

Please stop saying boon when you mean buff. Boons can be converted and stolen, stealth is not a boon, it is a buff.

And fractions of seconds matter. As I said I already tested this.

Decoy and prestige both give 4.5 seconds now instead of 6. I used them both at the same time and I got 9 seconds of stealth. If fractions of seconds did not matter I would have received only 8 seconds of stealth.

I have no idea what you are rambling about. With pu you get random boons whether they can be stolen corrupted or just go away it gives the same amount pre patch. I’m glad you keep stating you can count though. The issue again is with boons not stealth time earlier in post.

So even though the stealth time is longer the amount of boons is the same pre patch. I believe.

The stealth duration was not the issue. I believe the fraction of seconds will not apply a boon it rounds down.

I have stated that pre patch Mesmer was weaker until the nerfs. I am making a comparison. We will be back to where we started. You want to take each mechanic and judge it. I prefer taking the whole.

Fay.2357:

denis.9487:

Fay.2357:

denis.9487:

Fay.2357:

denis.9487:

Lol wow. I have no build. I think you are missing my point. I do not want to go backwards anymore. Removing the might takes pu to its original stage all I am saying. Why did we have this trait revamp if we doing all rights it will make a circle. We are heading back to original Mesmer. Before trait revamp we had core builds now it looks like chrono is all we have to look forward to. We are becoming the same just now we must take chrono. My issue is not the stack of might just the return to post trait patch.

You don’t seem to understand the basic concept here: might was added to PU as a nerf, not a buff. Removing the might isn’t just “moving backward”. Removing the might is a hard buff to PU.

Sure makes sense. So it’s ok to go backwards to that time when might and swiftness were not in be boon pool. How about stop going 1 step forward then 2 backwards. Didn’t realize I was trying to prove how we as a class are heading to post trait Mesmer at a certain time period.

Why are you so nailed to the perspective of old=bad and new=good? It makes zero sense. The only thing that matters is simply how strong the mechanic is, and might makes the mechanic weaker. It’s that simple.

Ok so old Mesmer wasn’t as effective after trait patch. Mantras mirror blade we have taken a lot of hits. So we are sliding down a slippery slope. Whether you agree or disagree the nerfs keep coming. Hence the comparison. At least we could trait extra bounce before no option for gs. Mantras need help. Pu nerf.

Your argument still makes zero sense and contains zero logic. Old, new, none of that matters! Stop trying to call all old things bad and all new things good. You’re wrong. There is no “slippery slope”, what an absolutely absurd thing to claim.

We’ve gotten both buffs and nerfs, throughout the existence of this game. The absolute timeline of when these occurred has absolutely zero impact on the changes themselves. The only thing that matters is how strong the mechanic is.

PU before swiftness and might was added was objectively better than it is now.

PU was an incredibly potent defensive mechanic that got watered down as a nerf. This is a fact.

The old version of decoy that ignored revealed was objectively better than it is now. This is a fact.

Obviously, some old versions of mechanics were better than they are now. This is because they got nerfed. Additionally, some old versions of mechanics are weaker than they are now, because they got buffed.

One more time. Being old or new doesn’t matter. The only thing that matters is the strength of the mechanic. Stop being all confused about old and new and “slippery slopes” and “steps backward”. That’s all absurd. Just look at the strength of the mechanics.

Ok so the strength of our mechanics haven’t changed. Staff mtd dueling combatants the list goes on. If you insist on making your claim that one cannot compare after the trait revamp then that is your short comings.

Fay.2357:

denis.9487:

Fay.2357:

denis.9487:

Lol wow. I have no build. I think you are missing my point. I do not want to go backwards anymore. Removing the might takes pu to its original stage all I am saying. Why did we have this trait revamp if we doing all rights it will make a circle. We are heading back to original Mesmer. Before trait revamp we had core builds now it looks like chrono is all we have to look forward to. We are becoming the same just now we must take chrono. My issue is not the stack of might just the return to post trait patch.

You don’t seem to understand the basic concept here: might was added to PU as a nerf, not a buff. Removing the might isn’t just “moving backward”. Removing the might is a hard buff to PU.

Sure makes sense. So it’s ok to go backwards to that time when might and swiftness were not in be boon pool. How about stop going 1 step forward then 2 backwards. Didn’t realize I was trying to prove how we as a class are heading to post trait Mesmer at a certain time period.

Why are you so nailed to the perspective of old=bad and new=good? It makes zero sense. The only thing that matters is simply how strong the mechanic is, and might makes the mechanic weaker. It’s that simple.

Ok so old Mesmer wasn’t as effective after trait patch. Mantras mirror blade we have taken a lot of hits. So we are sliding down a slippery slope. Whether you agree or disagree the nerfs keep coming. Hence the comparison. At least we could trait extra bounce before no option for gs. Mantras need help. Pu nerf.

Fay.2357:

denis.9487:

Lol wow. I have no build. I think you are missing my point. I do not want to go backwards anymore. Removing the might takes pu to its original stage all I am saying. Why did we have this trait revamp if we doing all rights it will make a circle. We are heading back to original Mesmer. Before trait revamp we had core builds now it looks like chrono is all we have to look forward to. We are becoming the same just now we must take chrono. My issue is not the stack of might just the return to post trait patch.

You don’t seem to understand the basic concept here: might was added to PU as a nerf, not a buff. Removing the might isn’t just “moving backward”. Removing the might is a hard buff to PU.

Sure makes sense. So it’s ok to go backwards to that time when might and swiftness were not in be boon pool. How about stop going 1 step forward then 2 backwards. Didn’t realize I was trying to prove how we as a class are heading to post trait Mesmer at a certain time period.

i think pu also let us handle a thief better. Sure we have blinds on shatter but once found we go back to become a team hinderance when the enemy team is using a thief. We need more peels babysitting. Pu let us disengage by allowing us to create distance and not have to hold our teammates hands due to a thief being present.

Ci is not what is needed for the job we are filling.

Lol wow. I have no build. I think you are missing my point. I do not want to go backwards anymore. Removing the might takes pu to its original stage all I am saying. Why did we have this trait revamp if we doing all rights it will make a circle. We are heading back to original Mesmer. Before trait revamp we had core builds now it looks like chrono is all we have to look forward to. We are becoming the same just now we must take chrono. My issue is not the stack of might just the return to post trait patch.

Noss.4105:

denis.9487:

Noss.4105:

denis.9487:

Simonoly.4352:

Reducing the added stealth duration to 50% was the right way to go and I think the game will be healthier because of it. I think it would be fine if the Might was removed from the random boon list now. Chaotic Interruption can provide you with all the Might you could possibly want- let PU be a purely defensive trait to aid new players.

So let’s reduce Mesmer even beyond pre patch trait revamp!!! Brilliant.

You think removing might from PU would be a nerf?

Yes considering not all pu use is conditional. Right runes and say Dom gm trait imagined burden.

Don’t know how conditions or Imagined Burden is relevant, but I’ll take aegis or protection over one stack of might any day. Whatever the build.

Requires imagination. Not everyone runs pu as a condition spec. So the might stack coupled with runes traits and wvw bonus(if there) could prove useful in a power build. Again not interested in going backwards yet that is our course at the moment.