Guild Wars 2

The very strong is due to using mantra of distraction for that 1 second. We have become a more specialized 1 trick pony. Sadly if the stars fail to align then it doesn’t matter. Better players see through this so the rest of us have to suffer with an awful mechanic named mantras.

Why do we have to go back to pre patch days and the rest stay post patch? How about fix or correct the real problem, damage across the boards.

Fun is great but still doesn’t balance the fun you can have with other classes not nerfed. The sad part it fixed something not broke. Should have fixed damage across boards then look class by class. I suppose doesn’t matter class by class means Mesmer anyways.

Thanks didn’t notice.

I am confused. The sigils have been nerfed awhile ago. Did they ninja the sigils this last patch or recently?

The issue imo is why nerf mirror blade when all damage is high across the boards. So when they address the stats on amulets we will be throwing an unblockable wet noodle that they will not revert.

Curunen.8729:

Velimere.7685:

MailMail.6534:

Velimere.7685:

denis.9487:

MailMail.6534:

Velimere.7685:

MailMail.6534:

Illusionary Elasticity’s effect is actually most pronounced in condition builds with Staff Clones AA-ing. IE was always in tough competition with other traits in the master line, but it was only a “must-have” in condition builds going into Illusions.

What you are saying is completely irrelevant to what I’m saying. Double Ranged Shatter is a power-based build that saw tourney play. Condition-based Mesmer builds are for hot-join heroes. We’re not even discussing on the same level here.

Double Ranged Shatter & Classic Shatter sucked in tourney play. Other builds put in 50% less effort and got 50%+ more reward. The fact that it was present at all is irrelevant to this particular discussion in which you claim IE was only taken for Double Ranged. I’m just here to inform you once again that IE is most potent in condi builds. Have tougher skin, darling. It’s not that serious.

Other builds classes take care of that effort reward which has no bearing here. If that was the case where was this condition build in top level tourney play? Seems if it was an option we would have seen it. Hot join hero stuff if cool but not relevant. The ramp up time is 4ever hence the lack of high tier condition staff clones aa. It was taken in power builds even if using sword torch it is a big boost in damage.

Quoted for biblical accuracy and truth.

Saying that IE’s main and best use was for Double Ranged Shatter while also implying there was no competition with Illusionary Invigoration is a factually incorrect statement. I know internet scholars don’t like the bitterness of #TruthTea sometimes, but my statement wasn’t meant to incite an unnecessary argument.

Illusionary Invigoration for Double Ranged Shatter? Nope.

I agree and I’m glad I don’t play power shatter anymore, and I used to be a die hard Sword/Torch + GS player, never liked double ranged.

Even using GS + Sw/T in classic 4/4/0/0/6, iElasticity was still superior to iInvigoration even with it only buffing mirror blade – for the reason of maximising burst especially against other glass cannons such as thieves.

Now it’s not even an option, although with the current state of damage in the game it’s not such a big deal – until they shave all the amulets/damage formulas…

But imo that’s the biggest issue. Anet but the cart in front of the horse. How can Mesmer take a hit on burst damage when across the board damage is high. Imagine when amulets damage formula looked at we will be throwing an unblockable wet noodle that they will not revert.

Meanwhile we in pre patch damage yet on other classes…….

Probably because this forum blows itself up. Not that much self hate in other forums.

MailMail.6534:

Velimere.7685:

MailMail.6534:

Illusionary Elasticity’s effect is actually most pronounced in condition builds with Staff Clones AA-ing. IE was always in tough competition with other traits in the master line, but it was only a “must-have” in condition builds going into Illusions.

What you are saying is completely irrelevant to what I’m saying. Double Ranged Shatter is a power-based build that saw tourney play. Condition-based Mesmer builds are for hot-join heroes. We’re not even discussing on the same level here.

Double Ranged Shatter & Classic Shatter sucked in tourney play. Other builds put in 50% less effort and got 50%+ more reward. The fact that it was present at all is irrelevant to this particular discussion in which you claim IE was only taken for Double Ranged. I’m just here to inform you once again that IE is most potent in condi builds. Have tougher skin, darling. It’s not that serious.

Other builds classes take care of that effort reward which has no bearing here. If that was the case where was this condition build in top level tourney play? Seems if it was an option we would have seen it. Hot join hero stuff if cool but not relevant. The ramp up time is 4ever hence the lack of high tier condition staff clones aa. It was taken in power builds even if using sword torch it is a big boost in damage.

Now imagine pairing it with torch. Lol

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/WvsW-Roaming-Medi-Guardian-Shattered-Aegis
The op states good job good skills on this guardian burst roaming build yet Mesmer is/was op. Just goes to show if you disappear and use stealth you are op and forget the rest.

DHawk.2687:

denis.9487:

Mesmer did not go from zero to hero. It went from bottom of the classes to on par with the classes. That simple. I understand the angst over not being on the bottom but in all fairness ele burst is the same with great sustain. Guardian burn burst builds. Warriors are still wearing sneakers instead of plate armor in wvw the list goes on and on. We are balanced and relevant to any other class now. Forgot condition thief those hurt!!

give all the mesmer stealth skills a cast time (just like thief) to make it counterable
take away/rework pledge
decrease PU to about 50%

THEN mesmer is on par with every other class

Some stealth issues id agree pledge needs rework asap. Then imo leave pu see what happens. Can always go farther. I’m found of baby steps not gutting.

Mesmer did not go from zero to hero. It went from bottom of the classes to on par with the classes. That simple. I understand the angst over not being on the bottom but in all fairness ele burst is the same with great sustain. Guardian burn burst builds. Warriors are still wearing sneakers instead of plate armor in wvw the list goes on and on. We are balanced and relevant to any other class now. Forgot condition thief those hurt!!

If you can’t sense the sarcasm I’m sorry. Everyday a new thread on how to nerf Mesmer. Yet when I play ele burst is the same plus sustain. Warriors still disengage at will and come back. Ranger peppers me with arrows. Fought a condition thief was downed in 3 seconds. The point being people have adjusted (except the same people opening new threads on Mesmer forums) and Mesmer is balanced in so far as we are on par with the other classes. I forgot guardian burn burst and forever fighting necros.

I will put this here also. I got it!! Remove Mesmer from game problem solved.

I got it!! It’s ridiculous that Mesmer is a class. That sums it up.

Thundaga.4358:

Mesm’s burst out of stealth is just pure ridiculous.Nerf them into the ground, thx.

It’s ridiculous the burst came pre patch.

Choppy.4183:

Dev time is a resource the dev team will manage, and they’re the ones with large scale data, not us. They also don’t take direction from us, though I’m sure occassionally listen to what’s being said (certainly people like Gaile Grey probably do).

My point was simply the people discounting contrary pov by dismissing evidence as anecdotal aren’t recognizing that largely, at best, their own evidence is anecdotal as well. The purpose of a forum is to discuss ideas, and those ideas don’t require a massive amount of evidence in order to be discussed.

Case in point, most people accept that thieves were a hard counter to mesmers pre-patch. I’d be surprised if anyone could point to a large scale analysis and dataset that supports that position, yet it’s largely accepted, afaik. Accepting, dismissing, and basically just discussing something like that doesn’t require a massive evidentiary case beforehand, and that happens independent of a process that allocates dev time. Unless, of course, a problem has people a so kittened off that it elevates the business priority of a fix.

Well a poor example on the thief part since nothing was done for 2 plus years. However the warrior healing signet might be a better example due to anet maybe testing it and nerfing it.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Bounty-Warlord-of-Chaos-Bounty-Raised

Mak.2657:

Nah, I am asking whom Helseth talking about in this video before he fights thief?

Yes it is rylock was a thread on that about 3 months ago.

Choppy.4183:

Photoloss.4817:

…several valid points…

I’m with you on the scientific rigor, and the value of math when calculating build potential. But scientific rigor doesn’t preclude anecdotal evidence, as your own use of it shows. Not just in regards to The Pledge, but the 1-hour montage as well, which would be, unavoidably, a collection of anecdotal evidence.

Your standard of evidence seems unreasonably high, especially since it appears to be applied in only one direction. We’ve just had a big patch applied in a context where most people agree that (1) the game is difficult to balance across all classes, game modes, and levels within those modes , (2) the devs don’t really have a firm handle on how their game is played across all of those modes, and (3) they lack a test environment in which to evaluate the implications of their changes before they’re released into production (bugs aside).

While I agree a claim that something’s broken, unbalanced, etc. requires more evidence than one person saying so, or a single screen cap, the same standard should be required for claims to the contrary. That the game is balanced, especially after this patch, isn’t the default position here, and this sub-forum is full of evidence being discounted along the lines of predictable confirmation biases.

Requiring someone to painstakingly do a bunch of math, convince other people to test things out, collect hours of video and countless screenshots, etc. just to point out something’s wrong (or isn’t) without being completely dismissed is unreasonable.

Everything is ok till the end. Just maybe anet is doing all the math. Why would we have to. I hope they don’t just make changes without proper data. Just because someone says x doesn’t mean it’s true. We might still believe the earth is flat.

How can you even entertain that when damage is high across the board for all classes. Imo that’s the first step.

I feel the same way. We cried to be buffed now we cry to nerf. We have entered the same playing field as the other classes. Some can do things better, some we do. But we have balance in so far as some representation in esl and many viable builds in wvw I don’t play much pve so not sure there.

Lettuce.2945:

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Choppy.4183:

It’s impressive when people can include that in an argument that the class is balanced while maintaining a straight face, amirite?

I can’t recall if Alpha thinks the class is balanced, but I know the person who came up with the “pre-patch” build does, more or less.

I’m amused to see you casting about trying to pin something on me, and failing to find anything.
I’m glad you admitted that, though.
Still, it’s silly to try to dismiss an argument through accusations of bias, while admitting immediately that you have no evidence of bias.

I was writing up a blurb explaining my actual position, but it got too long and I decided not to.

Lastly, your attempt to dismiss the point is ridiculous. This isn’t about some tacit admission that pre-patch was any more balanced than post-patch. This is about an unending chain of posers who keep making the rather stupid claim that because mesmer is now more effective for people of lower skill levels than it was, it’s no longer worth playing the class at all.
Not only does this smack of elitist idiocy, it’s not even a substantial complaint:
As I and other posters have noted repeatedly, you can play at the same level of “skill handicap” as mesmers were operating under before the patch. You can go even further than that, if you want to. You always have been able to.
The raised theoretical maximum power level has had no effect on the ability of a player to play a build that is at a lower power level. Indeed, we’ve seen a build that has nearly the same skill/reward structure as the maximum-power mesmer had pre-patch.

tl;dr: “mesmer is too easy now, imma roll another class” is moronic, because you can just roll the same kind of mesmer you had before. This has been said so many times and is so doable that I can only conclude the people saying it here are either morons, or they are posers just trying to get attention.
Actual balance is totally irrelevant to that particular claim.

So are you calling rytlock a moron or a poser trying to get attention? Do you not know who he is? He’s probably one of the best mesmers in the game and he doesn’t even want to play it anymore (mesmer main) because it’s too strong. When a mesmer main says that and is probably a top level mesmer…Chances are…The class is broken.

Are you trying to say that PU itself isn’t broken? Confounding suggestions is skillful (especially since you can set up your burst from stealth with it…), undodgeable blinds on shatter isn’t too strong? Oh let’s not forget the everlasting mantras that just keeps on repeating. Oh before you say you can interrupt it, it’s ALL GOOD. Players can cover their mantra cast with invuls/stealth, even more so with PU.

So if rylock is jumping of the bridge the rest of you lemmings can follow.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

People very quickly forget the basic law of not being a hypocrite: Don’t say/do things you wouldn’t want done to yourself. The internet is no excuse to lack personal integrity.

Hypocrisy
The practice of professing beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one does not hold or possess; falseness.

Whatever law you’re trying to divert to, hypocrisy isn’kitten Furthermore (and Im not taking part for or against) but your line about personal integrity could be leveled against the OP by those in the thread that’ve taken exception with him.

He posted something comical. Not everyone has the same tastes. So instead of pushing morals agendas or right and wrong simply don’t watch. Again comedy does that it pushes boundaries don’t like that don’t watch listen.

Notice the balance in quotes. Finally Mesmer is among the other classes I find that balancing in its own rights.

If pu is not your cup of tea so be it. But the facts remain that using helps you survive that simple. Take the knowledge move on no need to try and prove what trait is better or try to justify a playstyle as better.

I’m sorry for the same forum vomit with new titles.

We will be behind because what ever we give up to take chrono will water us down.

/face palm why are you trying to force your morals on anyone else? Comedy crosses all lines it is an interesting form to take very heated issues and laugh. This was in comedy reading any more into it is /face palm.

Uo rocked!! By far the most fun in any mmo I had.

I think it’s ingenious. We get to actually hear what’s going on and see at the same time. I personally think this is a glimpse of why we have so much hate. Just takes 1 match to start a fire. Very clever entertaining and most of all comical all that’s missing is Benny hill music.

Kicker.8203:

-Burst combined with PU is a bit too high, it shouldn’t 1-shot ppl just alone.

-The random blindspam trait is really unskillful and should be removed from the mind wrack and daze shatter, they already have countless defense mechanisms.
—-
Other than these, mesmers are fine.

The blind is tied to shatters so hardly spamable. Should be tweaked for blocks invulnerable.

Why do we need another post on nerfing the Mesmer. All classes can burst plain and simple. Learn to dodge practice more playing, less forum post rehash on how to nerf Mesmer.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

denis.9487:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

denis.9487:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

unknownchaos.1425:

Hello. I always heard about how bad I was talked about in "the other servers mapchat/teamspeak. I didn’t really care much. But I did wonder how true it was.

This video is me in the enemy teamspeak hidden. Hunting down the borderland defenders.

It’s honestly the funniest video I have ever made. I normally don’t watch my own videos after they are completed but this one I’ve watched 3 times. It never gets old.

So have at it. Call me bad, call me mean. I have my reasons for doing it. Or just have a laugh on me.

https://youtu.be/tdy9KZCjMtI

I have watched that vid and despite my immense sense of humor I didn’t laugh once. How can I laugh at something so gratuitous and low?

Honestly, if you have something to say in your defense, you said you had your reasons to be such an kitten, say it now because I’m about to report this post since you clearly violate their TS. This is clearly against ANET code of conduct and certainly mine…

BTW, an excellent example of PU mesmer in WvW nowadays with everything wrong there is with it…

What’s your last sentence?

what is your point?

My point being be mad for ts, not try using this as evidence to Mesmer being op!!!

Can you write that down in a way it can make sense?

Am I to understand that the last btw line is so offensive to you that you became blind to all that came before it and was the crux of what was said?

Some humor is offensive, your upset ts was used this way but you want to fuel the fire to nerf Mesmer by using this video. May I help you count, maybe help you read, how about help you fight a Mesmer? Sorry can’t help that keep playing staff ele taking dirt naps clicking way points because sadly like what is shown in the video you choose not to listen and do things your own jet setting nerf crying ways.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

denis.9487:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

unknownchaos.1425:

Hello. I always heard about how bad I was talked about in "the other servers mapchat/teamspeak. I didn’t really care much. But I did wonder how true it was.

This video is me in the enemy teamspeak hidden. Hunting down the borderland defenders.

It’s honestly the funniest video I have ever made. I normally don’t watch my own videos after they are completed but this one I’ve watched 3 times. It never gets old.

So have at it. Call me bad, call me mean. I have my reasons for doing it. Or just have a laugh on me.

https://youtu.be/tdy9KZCjMtI

I have watched that vid and despite my immense sense of humor I didn’t laugh once. How can I laugh at something so gratuitous and low?

Honestly, if you have something to say in your defense, you said you had your reasons to be such an kitten, say it now because I’m about to report this post since you clearly violate their TS. This is clearly against ANET code of conduct and certainly mine…

BTW, an excellent example of PU mesmer in WvW nowadays with everything wrong there is with it…

What’s your last sentence?

what is your point?

My point being be mad for ts, not try using this as evidence to Mesmer being op!!!

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

unknownchaos.1425:

Hello. I always heard about how bad I was talked about in "the other servers mapchat/teamspeak. I didn’t really care much. But I did wonder how true it was.

This video is me in the enemy teamspeak hidden. Hunting down the borderland defenders.

It’s honestly the funniest video I have ever made. I normally don’t watch my own videos after they are completed but this one I’ve watched 3 times. It never gets old.

So have at it. Call me bad, call me mean. I have my reasons for doing it. Or just have a laugh on me.

https://youtu.be/tdy9KZCjMtI

I have watched that vid and despite my immense sense of humor I didn’t laugh once. How can I laugh at something so gratuitous and low?

Honestly, if you have something to say in your defense, you said you had your reasons to be such an kitten, say it now because I’m about to report this post since you clearly violate their TS. This is clearly against ANET code of conduct and certainly mine…

BTW, an excellent example of PU mesmer in WvW nowadays with everything wrong there is with it…

What’s your last sentence?

If it insults you don’t watch. Could have simply said I dislike this for this reason. Taking the opportunity to cry Mesmer op is what the problem is. Many comics use material for comedy that is offensive guess what don’t listen watch or support. Could have given your advice on the content not strung along the other stuff.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

ToaLux.6478:

Hi, Sirbeau! Could you please stop coming into the Mesmer forum, essentially demanding Mesmer nerfs, and then making backhanded comments about Mesmers and their builds?

I know you play zero staff ele and get destroyed by Mesmers among other classes, and that’s understandable. But if you’re going to hop on the Mesmer hatewagon—please do it in a less… abrasive way. Such as making a thread as to why Mesmer needs nerfs, mayhaps?

Anyway! I liked the video, and I hope those featured in the video got a kick out of it as well

I’m disappointed you find that funny Fila.

The thread you speak up was made many times by many ppl and suggestions provided. The problem is, no matter what, we have ppl like Denis here who never see any problem at all no matter what is shown or said to them. I suppose it slowly made me more and more abrasive over time … The troll vid here also doesn’t help to be honest.

We have people like you who constantly see a problem with everything, aparantly even humor. What I was shown are people killing themselves crying hacks. If you didn’t see or hear the same thing then I don’t know what to say. If you look I have said many times damage is running high on all classes cs should be looked at along with blinding dis. But why on this comical thread am I defending myself? Because people like you no matter what constantly cry Mesmer op!!

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

denis.9487:

In that same breath this is what Mesmer is facing. Have you listened to it. Randomly saying rune usage saying he is hacking. Although they did understand the issue eventually like you said. We ran it one by one. We could have done this. But it shows the situation we mesmers are in because even though what you said Ross is common sense in the game where was it practiced. Instead we get forum posts of raging in chat about the opness of a Mesmer.

Yeah, let’s miss the point where despite admitting himself to be less than pro mesmer (which was also noted by fellow mesmers) the guy had ridiculous results for no efforts or risk on top of abusing what appears to be casual players in a social club. And of course there is the TS invasion… because he clearly needed it… poor poor mesmer victim.

You still wonder where all that mesmer hate come from Denis?

Yes I do actually. If this isn’t your taste of humor I’m sorry for that. But what did it show? People running in 1v1 and dying. He guarded a camp. He was slippery but why? No cc from opponents no clearing just button mashing and it is the Mesmer problem? Not even counting what was said already about the self revealing using chaos storm.

Lol another Mesmer is op lol

In that same breath this is what Mesmer is facing. Have you listened to it. Randomly saying rune usage saying he is hacking. Although they did understand the issue eventually like you said. We ran it one by one. We could have done this. But it shows the situation we mesmers are in because even though what you said Ross is common sense in the game where was it practiced. Instead we get forum posts of raging in chat about the opness of a Mesmer.

I found it really funny as well. Well played sir.

Dawdler.8521:

Most people cant even play Mesmer properly due to considerably higher skillceiling that for example pushing two buttons on a Ranger, but the answer is still yes.

The change to PU in particular is completely mindboggling. It went from giving you 1 second more stealth per skill to double the stealth duration. And it was already considered a decent enough skill.

Because this game really needed more combat stealth. I’m a little surprised the Thief didnt get a trait that grant them 1 second extra stealth for every second they are in stealth.

The shift toward more damage output didnt exactly hurt a class that already was one of the best duelists.

What’s mind boggling is saying considered decent enough implies decent enough is ok. And another comment on being a duelist. A lot of duelist classes so I suppose they all op as well.

Sorry yes I was.

apharma.3741:

Well, I did a load of Maths in the MW damage thread and off the top of it we’re getting way too much vulnerability for very little. With just the mantra and mirror blade hitting you’re getting 14 stacks which is the equivalent to 21 stacks with fragility. It’s about 11% more damage modifier than the previous shatter build and more vulnerability compounds the issue.

Put simply, why do we get 5 for a daze and only 3 for an interrupt? Make it 2 and then 6 respectively.

On top of that master fencer is another issue, it needs the health threshold making 50% or maybe lower. It’s resulting in some 75% crit chance on most bursts after a relatively small amount of damage.

How is master fencer even entering this. It has some serious competition and I highly doubt used in pvp. That trait is for pve I’m sure that side needs all the help it can get.

Usually we play something with the understanding of if you like it then you would study and train. The only scope where playing for fun has any merit is when playing with someone really below your level ie playing kickball with kids. Some people still can’t tone it down and play to win no matter what. Some funny movies or stories on this premise. So the principal to win is always lurking somewhere. Playing for fun usually is the trump card for dismissing another persons greater ability, to down play the victory or not giving it merit because I was just “having fun”.

If you take the time Mesmer is feared if you know what you are doing. I feel like I’m in a political smear campaign. I feel dirty lol.

denis.9487
Mesmer rocks. Just start small. Ignore the people that say shatter or die. Ease into the class with forgiving specs such as condition pu move to power pu. Then gradually change over pieces to become a bursty spec in pvp/wvw. Mesmer is a boss class. Become feared on your wvw home world!!
April 13th, 22:33
Edit Quote Delete Report Permalink
This was from the same thread. Again you took a snip from a thread and used it to support your imaginary personal mission to nerf pu.