Guild Wars 2

Honestly I must start running this build since it is so hated. All I can say is I hope I see you all in game so I can stealth away and away and away. Hell according to you all you won’t even see me in the map yet alone standing in a circle. But be warned I am watching from my infinite stealth!!

Choppy.4183:

• Because long stealth doesn’t bring a benefit in PvP.
• Because nobody is negatively affected by long stealth in pve.
• Because zergs are immune to long stealth mesmers and will want time warp (or moa for driver ganking lulz)

• Because small to mid scale Wvw is the only place it matters either way (though it could be utilized to cheaply undo serf ppt gains pretty easily too).

If the latter doesn’t matter, then you should have no objection to cutting the stealth buff because it’s irrelevant in any place that does matter, by your logic.

By that same logic it should be left alone hence what we have been saying. L2p learn to adapt or keep dieing.

But again when I chase I get owned. Just like the hate from pu. Sometimes you just need to walk the other way or get help. Not based on 1v1 encounters at all.

Kagamiku.9731:

Also, engi stealth is only something they can use to escape or initiate, they don’t have enough access to it to use it regularly in combat. And ranger can only have stealth in longbow. All other ranger builds have no access to it.

Without a doubt the most annoying imo in wvw is a condition ranger using longbow plus trapper runes. Insane stealth speed impressive conditions cc with pets and good sustain.

Kagamiku.9731:

denis.9487:

messiah.1908:

yuo can blind melee class more easily
stealth more easily
you can burst 100-1 in 2 sec zerk armor
you have good range dmg
good invulnerability with sword and distortion
great cc and dmg while cc

what more do you need

i play memser and i hate mesmers

You listed all classes. The problem is Mesmer just entered into that same playing field.

What are you talking about? Most classes can’t do most of those, let alone all of those.

Lol besides stealth(thief engy mes ranger) but if u must be so specific I get it.

messiah.1908:

yuo can blind melee class more easily
stealth more easily
you can burst 100-1 in 2 sec zerk armor
you have good range dmg
good invulnerability with sword and distortion
great cc and dmg while cc

what more do you need

i play memser and i hate mesmers

You listed all classes. The problem is Mesmer just entered into that same playing field.

denis.9487:

Choppy.4183:

Afaik, nobody has proposed taking stealth away from mesmers. It remains an integral component of their defense.

Also, this thread is just about PU. If people want to expand that to mesmer balancing as a whole (where to buff, where to nerf) a new thread is probably in order because it’s a way more complex question.

You keep talking in circles. When it is brought up that pu is not needed to burst then why is it q big deal to leave a fight? By staying in stealth(decal) or running away isn’t that a win?

If you choose to track a pu Mesmer with the intentions to kill and rage it’s the same thing as a thief. I’m sure there are better things to do in wvw and pvp.

Choppy.4183:

Afaik, nobody has proposed taking stealth away from mesmers. It remains an integral component of their defense.

Also, this thread is just about PU. If people want to expand that to mesmer balancing as a whole (where to buff, where to nerf) a new thread is probably in order because it’s a way more complex question.

You keep talking in circles. When it is brought up that pu is not needed to burst then why is it q big deal to leave a fight? By staying in stealth(decal) or running away isn’t that a win?

riva.1357:

I main mesmer and mainly play WvW and sPvP. I feel PU is way too strong at the moment whereas the last iteration of it was OK. The stealth condi mesmer playstyle was already very strong and hard to counter (you can just run away ofc, there’s little to no chase going on in those builds) but now with the added duration and condi changes I feel like it has spun out of control. Even with the removal of clone death builds there’s not enough risk going on for the reward it gives.

Your using pu in pvp? Are you sure you main Mesmer?

Just to shed some light. Warrior run sword sword longbow condition. U will own Mesmer or force a draw. Warrior has good passive healing and sword offers gap or escape options. Immobilize torment bleeds burns. Destroys clones and phantasms so really hard to burst. Fought one for 15 minutes was a draw. He killed me at a camp because stealth does nothing when taking objectives so I was caught out in the open.

So nerf a working trait even though Mesmer can burst harder with another line and can still stealth burst?

Choppy.4183:

denis.9487:

You keep posting then editing or taking down words. Your magical claim to nerf a trait is because you ran it in wvw and your party died and you survived. I have been around and around this bush with you. The constant changing of posts, posting contradicting posts in different forums just proves that you are grasping at anything to justify nerfing a defensive trait. All this time can you imagine if you just went into a dueling arena and actually fought a Mesmer might just figure out that tough nut.

I haven’t changed anything you’ve been commenting on. I just added a bit to my comment to apharma about warrior mobility, basically saying “have fun”. I’m a monster, I know.

My posts aren’t contradictory, you just lack the requisite comprehension skills to understand them.

As a point of clarification, I’m talking about reverting a trait back to where it was two weeks ago, sitting with no complaints of being underpowered by anybody, or possibly increasing the stealth from where it was still than where it is now. I’ve also supported a stealth buff to Veil. That’s not a call to nerf the class, and the very post of mine you quoted from the warrior forum specifically said it’d be better to not nerf the class despite the appearance of mesmers being a bit OP at the moment.

Some of the justifications for the PU reduction include:

1. the amount of stealth a mesmer can generate by simply activating skills (i.e. no hit has to be landed; almost no counterplay) outclasses every other stealth class by a country mile
2. this stealth is stackable
3. the aoe party stealth (MI) has a 1200 radius, affects 10 people, and provides the effective stealth duration of a full Shadow Refuge without the need to stack in an identifiable small area (no counterplay)
4. put 5 mesmers in a havoc, and they can provide almost a full minute worth of stealth to their entire party plus another havoc, creating an insane advantage in combat
5. that same havoc could, in principle remain permanently stealthed without giving any indication whatsoever of their presence on the battlefield or in a structure
6. even one 10s MI is an incredible advantage on the battlefield matched by no other elite (or any other skill) in the game
7. terrible mesmers (like me) can survive total party wipes of actually capable people because the stealth combined with escape is so good
8. the combination of this enhanced stealth plus the regular mesmer defensive advantages (clones, cc, defensive buffs, evades, etc) make running full zerk shatter insanely easy, whereas other classes actually have to put themselves at risk to go glass

None of the above is in balance with other classes… any of them. Other classes have their own issues, for sure, but clinging to an obviously unbalanced trait buff because other classes might have their own things that need to be adjusted is incredibly short sighted. Rolling back on that trait isn’t a nerf to the core of the mesmer class either, nor does it impede build diversity.

Have you read your warrior post? There are more mesmers something is up. When another Mesmer enters it gets tough how about when any other class comes it gets tough hence the random nature of wvw. Most mesmers don’t use pu they burst harder without it. Then you come here and share a lovely story how a trait let you escape while your havoc party died. Maybe if you traited another line you could actually helped. The trait worked it let you survive.

Choppy.4183:

By my count, more people have acknowledged PU stealth is excessive than not. I also didn’t post sour experiences, I identified the balance issue both as an opponent and as someone running the trait. That you interpret that as “hate trying to mobilize a movement” to nerf the class says more about you than me.

Stating stealth fits mesmers thematically is not a demonstration that it’s balanced, and we’re just taking about a specific trait here, not the class as a whole. Thanks for coming out though.

You keep posting then editing or taking down words. Your magical claim to nerf a trait is because you ran it in wvw and your party died and you survived. I have been around and around this bush with you. The constant changing of posts, posting contradicting posts in different forums just proves that you are grasping at anything to justify nerfing a defensive trait. All this time can you imagine if you just went into a dueling arena and actually fought a Mesmer might just figure out that tough nut.

Choppy.4183:

What’s the basis for your claim that mesmer stealth is balanced?

Honestly if you came into this forum looking for help you would have received a much better welcome. By posting your sour experiences then concluding to nerf instead of learn you sort of shot yourself in the foot. Your posts are nothing but hate trying to mobilize a movement. When caught you ignore the facts and continue to try and stir the pot.

denis.9487
Because it doesn’t effect any game mode. Roaming is not supported. Why shouldn’t the Mesmer have access to a longer escape stealth. Pay attention to the Mesmer burst set ups and counter. If the Mesmer runs so what. Your mad because you cannot kill the Mesmer as easily. The patch has been here 2 weeks. There will be many counters let it shape up. Just nerfing skills because you or anyone has problems is not a reason to nerf something.
Yesterday, 15:19
Edit Quote Delete Report Permalink

@Denis
You’re contradicting yourself. If it doesn’t affect any game mode that matters, as far as you’re concerned, then it shouldn’t matter to you if it gets rolled back.

But then you ask why mesmers shouldn’t have long escape, suggesting that it matters on some level. And to that I say they already have it, which is why mesmers without PU are perfectly viable.

The long PU stealth makes that escape, and even mid-fight breathing room, OP relative to the rest of the game. You want long stealth like a thief? Would you be willing to shorten the range and increase the CD on Blink for it? Lower your health pool, perhaps? Increase the shatter skill CD and have it shared across all of them as a global cooldown? I wouldn’t, because it would gut mesmers, but that’s the sort of price thieves pay for their stealth.

Honestly, you sound like the Engineers that claimed Grenadier was balanced while glitched.

Just to set the record straight.

Choppy.4183:

@denis
How is that being a troll? I disclosed that I’m lobbying to reduce the PU stealth bonus, which I am in this thread, while suggesting the broader concerns about mesmers being raised in that thread should probably be left to ride for a bit.

How could I be any more transparent and sympathetic to mesmers there?

Choppy please look back. When I said leave it and let it settle you accused me of being an engineer lobbying for grenade damage to leave it, and called me a troll. I find it amusing you say 1 thing over there and another over here.

Choppy.4183
They could use a tweak or two, yeah. I’m currently lobbying to have the stealth buff on PU reverted to what it was, but they’re overall more deadly without it (most quality mesmers don’t run it in favour of more burst).
I’ve come across large groups of mesmers lately, which is an indication that something may not be right. I don’t know if it’s a matter of them (or others) needing changes or just a matter of figuring out a counter for them. I think I’m currently on the side of letting it ride until HoT drops unless it becomes unbearable.
I don’t have a great warrior build to counter mesmers 1v1 at the moment (I can kill them, but generally not vs equal skill), but it gets worse pretty quickly as you add other mesmers into the mix.
(edited Yesterday, 21:59 by Choppy.4183)
Yesterday, 21:38
+1
Quote Report Permalink
This was posted in the warrior forums. I find it funny he says rice it out. The same thing I said yet was called a troll. The real troll shows his face.

dank.3680:

denis.9487:

NvN.4321:

Take a warrior and go 1v1 on mesmer in wvw, hell even spvp in certain maps. Then tell me again how i should learn weakness of mesmer class.
I am dealing with your illusions, clones, stealth, dodges, dazes, stun breaks and now the ridiculous dmg boost. And i have to keep constant pressure while trying to burst you to be effective.
If you fail you can just reset the fight and try again and warriors can’t keep up with you anymore because of the GS nerf.
And you are playing vs most telegraphed class in game. The warrior burst are like kitten cinema screen. Earthshaker, backbreaker, skull crack , eviscerate you name it.

The warrior using signet has awesome sustain. Warrior weapons cleave no illusions no burst (removed clone death). Warriors have the same stun breaks plus immunities. Stuns with no diminishing return stun Mesmer is a dead Mesmer. Practice more is the answer to that statement. Sorry Mesmer isn’t face roll for you playing a warrior.

Pretty much any experienced mesmer knows, fighting against a warrior IS a faceroll. Yeah he can cleave clones but I can throw them back up quicker. With all this extra stealth it’s even easier not to even get hit by the warrior, on top of that pretty much constant protection if you manage to slip up and get hit once or twice..

This is why. Again people don’t play Mesmer. Constant protection. Extra stealth. If your dueling why do you need extra stealth when dueling? Just throw it all in there. We hate Mesmer because we can!!!!!

NvN.4321:

Take a warrior and go 1v1 on mesmer in wvw, hell even spvp in certain maps. Then tell me again how i should learn weakness of mesmer class.
I am dealing with your illusions, clones, stealth, dodges, dazes, stun breaks and now the ridiculous dmg boost. And i have to keep constant pressure while trying to burst you to be effective.
If you fail you can just reset the fight and try again and warriors can’t keep up with you anymore because of the GS nerf.
And you are playing vs most telegraphed class in game. The warrior burst are like kitten cinema screen. Earthshaker, backbreaker, skull crack , eviscerate you name it.

The warrior using signet has awesome sustain. Warrior weapons cleave no illusions no burst (removed clone death). Warriors have the same stun breaks plus immunities. Stuns with no diminishing return stun Mesmer is a dead Mesmer. Practice more is the answer to that statement. Sorry Mesmer isn’t face roll for you playing a warrior.

Choppy.4183:

apharma.3741:

Stealth needs a viable counter, a way to reveal someone who is in stealth

Is that clear enough for you? The problem isn’t stealth, the problem is the lack of a real counter which any decent game puts in. Seriously, think of all the good games with stealth in, they always have a way to unstealth people.

Nerfing PU back to pre patch will only nerf Mesmer escapes to the point they will no longer be able to escape without using MI in WvW. In PvP it’ll just make people run inspiration or illusions line for power shatters as the boons are terrible, removing yet more build diversity.

Mesmers already have more escape/disengage than many other classes without PU, possibly including warrior at this point (I’ve been running gs/s+sh, bulls, full cd reduction, and warriors sprint and I can barely escape from mesmers running Blink and Traveller’s runes, and that’s the fastest comp a warrior has).

Despite that, I’m not calling for thief stealth nerfs. Sure, they have some deadly burst from stealth, but it seems to be less of a problem.

Even still, your argument to leave PU as it is would only hold up if most mesmers were traiting it. If they don’t trait it, they aren’t getting the benefit, and evidently they aren’t finding the thief threat sufficient to meet that threat.

If you want stealth completely overhauled, fine, but you aren’t making much of an argument in support of the PU stealth buff. The issue of “build diversity” isn’t solved by keeping a stealth buff on a trait that apparently most mesmers aren’t taking now, and a buff they apparently don’t need anyway.

How can thief stealth be a no issue yet with a Mesmer they are so many problems? We have to set up our burst. All allowing counter play. If slotting mirror images then that’s a utility spot lost. Thief press 1 button over and over along with amazing gap closers and stealth. Honestly imo Mesmer has been such a non issue except running into the rare mega player that people are raging over everything. Being able to keep up with a Nike warrior!!! Unbelievable!! The horror. This cannot be!!

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

I know I am late to this post, but I feel PU needs to be nerfed so hard that no one ever uses it again. The trait right now is pure cancer and is breaking mesmer. I can basically stealth as long as a thief and instakill you if you are out of stealth for even a second. I know mesmer burst will probably get nerfed, but it doesnt matter if PU allows me to burst over and over again without any retaliation.

As long as all classes get their damage reduced/looked at. Mesmer are far from the only classes lighting up the health bars.

denis.9487:

Choppy.4183:

You’ll have to read more carefully. I said it won’t do anything to reduce the fun or viability of the class.

Dueling/Inspiration is superior for burst, which is why most shatter members run it and to great effect. Ergo, the cheesy stealth buff isn’t needed for the class to be powerful, and you continue to make my point. Thanks.

Ok so let me get this. Your experience with pu let you escape while your party was killed. That is what pu is for a trait that lets you be slippery even more so than normal. Although with mimic that is debatable since the stealth uptime can be maintained close to pu numbers. So your assumption is nerf pu because it worked? Maybe if you used that exceptional dueling/inspiration you could have changed that outcome because pu trait is selfish. I am the troll,buddy yet I have listed utilities that enable the Mesmer to burst with or without pu equally well. Yet your experience with a defensive trait lead you to believe it needs a nerf? Not sure where the troll is but you used the trait how it was designed.

You keep asking for reasons to support pu. The post I am referencing is how you played pu in wvw and when your party wiped you didn’t. Hence my response.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

denis.9487:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

denis.9487:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

denis.9487:

Also the pure lack of knowledge. The hate is from reading or listening from others. People still worried about clone death. Lol. Please play the Mesmer then understand what’s going on in order to fight them. It is blind hate. Because we Mesmer use stealth they scream pu. Just really a lack of basic knowledge and the riot mentality. Hate for no reason.

Like I said, I do play a mesmer and I do fight a lot of them too. It is not just blind hate. They really are extremely hard to defeat at all for a large majority of the builds even if facing players that have thousands more hours on other professions.

Some build factually carry little to no risk vs high reward and were made even worse after the patch. Looking at you PU. Ppl have legitimate reasons to complain in this case whether you feel like acknowledging it or not.

If this was even remotely true then were are the dominating Mesmer teams? People are sore Mesmer can actually fight back. This random pu hate from not being able to kill a wvw Mesmer. Pu is awful in pvp. No team support extremely selfish.

Just wow… maybe you need to learn to read. WvW is the context I’m ranting about. In pvp you dominate by caping so of course stealth is a double edge sword there since you either disapear or cap. If pvp where death matches I would definitely bet on the mesmer team atm.

It is clear to me you don’t want to hear a word of it, and I don’t care, but it would help the discussion if ppl would at least try to argue in good faith.

It seems you care about a 1v1 game mode. Wvw is not balanced by its very nature. More people= win so why complain? Pu is a selfish trait that allows a Mesmer to get away more easily. Just by taking it you are reducing your potential damage output for more defense. Seems balanced to me.

It sure isn’t balanced but there are limits. It is no secret that stealth in wvw is a problem since a long time and it would probably be best to avoid making it worse. Beside, I don’t only care of 1v1. All of wvw feel this even if roamers are definitely the first victims.

As for PU being purely defensive and balanced because it has a lower damage than shatter, I respectfully disagree. The damage ATM, condi or not, is so high that even if you sacrifice a good deal of it you still stay dangerous. Heck, a war in full nomad gear who hit like a wet noodle pale in his defensive capabilities in comparison to a PU who will still do much more damage via condi. It is not balanced at all.

I’ll agree. Hit the nail on the head. Everyone damage needs adjustment before looking at class nerfs.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

denis.9487:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

denis.9487:

Also the pure lack of knowledge. The hate is from reading or listening from others. People still worried about clone death. Lol. Please play the Mesmer then understand what’s going on in order to fight them. It is blind hate. Because we Mesmer use stealth they scream pu. Just really a lack of basic knowledge and the riot mentality. Hate for no reason.

Like I said, I do play a mesmer and I do fight a lot of them too. It is not just blind hate. They really are extremely hard to defeat at all for a large majority of the builds even if facing players that have thousands more hours on other professions.

Some build factually carry little to no risk vs high reward and were made even worse after the patch. Looking at you PU. Ppl have legitimate reasons to complain in this case whether you feel like acknowledging it or not.

If this was even remotely true then were are the dominating Mesmer teams? People are sore Mesmer can actually fight back. This random pu hate from not being able to kill a wvw Mesmer. Pu is awful in pvp. No team support extremely selfish.

Just wow… maybe you need to learn to read. WvW is the context I’m ranting about. In pvp you dominate by caping so of course stealth is a double edge sword there since you either disapear or cap. If pvp where death matches I would definitely bet on the mesmer team atm.

It is clear to me you don’t want to hear a word of it, and I don’t care, but it would help the discussion if ppl would at least try to argue in good faith.

It seems you care about a 1v1 game mode. Wvw is not balanced by its very nature. More people= win so why complain? Pu is a selfish trait that allows a Mesmer to get away more easily. Just by taking it you are reducing your potential damage output for more defense. Seems balanced to me.

With post patch can change armor now also.

Mesmer in combat mobility is really high we suffer from out of combat snailness, also we are not might generators to begin with. So taking runes for quality of life land movement can be done.

While having 2.3k power.

The same build can be brought over to wvw. The toughness number to aim for varies from player to player based on your skill level. I will say obtaining a high toughness value(1800)while still having a 220 percent crit damage 50 percent crit are easily done through consumables.

Choppy.4183:

You’ll have to read more carefully. I said it won’t do anything to reduce the fun or viability of the class.

Dueling/Inspiration is superior for burst, which is why most shatter members run it and to great effect. Ergo, the cheesy stealth buff isn’t needed for the class to be powerful, and you continue to make my point. Thanks.

Ok so let me get this. Your experience with pu let you escape while your party was killed. That is what pu is for a trait that lets you be slippery even more so than normal. Although with mimic that is debatable since the stealth uptime can be maintained close to pu numbers. So your assumption is nerf pu because it worked? Maybe if you used that exceptional dueling/inspiration you could have changed that outcome because pu trait is selfish. I am the troll,buddy yet I have listed utilities that enable the Mesmer to burst with or without pu equally well. Yet your experience with a defensive trait lead you to believe it needs a nerf? Not sure where the troll is but you used the trait how it was designed.

Choppy.4183:

Buddy, you’re hysterical. Do you see me demanding the undoing of a baseline IP or saying, “OMFG mesmers OP need NOW!!1!11!”? No.

Mesmers are a great class and fun to play. They should remain that way and, even based on things you’ve said,
reducing the stealth buff on PU won’t change that.

Mesmers haven’t had much experience with the Nerfbat, but I can assure you it usually hits hard and it hits a lot of the wrong stuff in the process. It should be obvious to anyone that plays or plays against a PU build that its stealth buff is excessive. You’d do well to accept that and advocate it be reduced before you actually get a “Mesmer OP” chant going and the Nerfbat comes to breaks things it shouldn’t, as has happened to other classes more than once.

Your continued failure to justify this buff that nobody asked for beyond “Anet wanted it”, and vague claims of counterplay and pleas to “wait till everything settles” speaks volumes.

It’s a troll trait and a crutch for unskilled mesmers like me and, almost certainly, like you too given how tightly you’re trying to hold onto it.

So if nerfing it won’t change anything why call for the nerf? I do not run chaos line. I have found dueling/inspiration far superior with the listed escape skills.

Choppy.4183:

denis.9487:

So that’s it right there. These complainers are upset that Mesmer isn’t on the bottom of the food chain. All this nonsense about thief burst all u need is one button. Mesmer you see our greatsword blade there is counter play. All I’m asking is let it settle. And no I’m not like an engineer asking for there 1 skill I win button. Plenty of counter play with Mesmer stealth.

How in the world would reducing the stealth bonus on PU put mesmers on the bottom of the food chain? It wouldn’t and that’s not the point at all.

I already said I played a PU mesmer last night and it was dead easy to both deliver solid damage pressure and not die even with a party wipe, even though I’m not very skilled as a mes. Do you disagree that it’s a relatively easy and potent build to play with little risk for the reward?

If you do, then you have no idea what’s required of other classes. The point is to bring them all in balance with each other so they’re all fun to play and to play against.

I suppose it’s also time to bring up, again, that you haven’t actually made a case for why the buff is needed. We’re taking about one buff on one trait that nobody asked for in the first place and is clearly not needed for mesmers to be a strong and balanced class.

Buddy your one experience with pu requires nerfing a trait? You can give the slip without pu. Decoy blink torch (now mimic) mass invisibility. These are common utilities a burst Mesmer is using. Let’s nerf it all then buddy. Let’s keep the Mesmer under the boot of all you good buddies.

Choppy.4183:

denis.9487:

So that’s it right there. These complainers are upset that Mesmer isn’t on the bottom of the food chain. All this nonsense about thief burst all u need is one button. Mesmer you see our greatsword blade there is counter play. All I’m asking is let it settle. And no I’m not like an engineer asking for there 1 skill I win button. Plenty of counter play with Mesmer stealth.

How in the world would reducing the stealth bonus on PU put mesmers on the bottom of the food chain? It wouldn’t and that’s not the point at all.

Buddy, I already said I played a PU meaner last night and it was dead easy to both deliver solid damage pressure and not die even with a party wipe.. Do you disagree that it’s a relatively easy and potent build to play with little risk for reward?

If you do, then you have no idea what’s required of other classes. The point is to bring them in balance with each other.

I suppose it’s also time to bring up, again, that you haven’t actually made a case for why the buff is needed.

Ok buddy. It was buffed because that’s what they wanted.
The extra stealth means nothing except survival. The Mesmer can still do his stealth burts without pu. So u want to nerf a trait just because some extra time?? What happens when dueling/inspiration catches on, much more sustain with condition clearing? I know nerf that. How about learn to combat the Mesmer.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

denis.9487:

Also the pure lack of knowledge. The hate is from reading or listening from others. People still worried about clone death. Lol. Please play the Mesmer then understand what’s going on in order to fight them. It is blind hate. Because we Mesmer use stealth they scream pu. Just really a lack of basic knowledge and the riot mentality. Hate for no reason.

Like I said, I do play a mesmer and I do fight a lot of them too. It is not just blind hate. They really are extremely hard to defeat at all for a large majority of the builds even if facing players that have thousands more hours on other professions.

Some build factually carry little to no risk vs high reward and were made even worse after the patch. Looking at you PU. Ppl have legitimate reasons to complain in this case whether you feel like acknowledging it or not.

If this was even remotely true then were are the dominating Mesmer teams? People are sore Mesmer can actually fight back. This random pu hate from not being able to kill a wvw Mesmer. Pu is awful in pvp. No team support extremely selfish.

Choppy.4183:

Sunflowers.1729:

Ya PU is a bit over the top right now but your comparison is so biased it isn’t even funny.

Umm… I play my mesmer more than I play my thief, am currently specced to PU in Wvw, and I main a warrior.

Thieves have counterplay. Even as a warrior, I know where SR is, I know roughly when their regular stealths end and where they need to be to burst, they’re easier to catch if they screw up, and they’re more confined by the initiative system for burst than are mesmers and their clones.

Sure, they have crazy burst coupled with engage/disengage, that’s their schtick. But it’s a fairly unforgiving class if you want to be bursty, especially compared to mesmers.

Landing warrior bursts requires more finesse than PU mesmers right now, and that seems so wrong. Couple that with the nutso survivability enhanced by PU and it should be obvious that rolling back the stealth bonus is a pretty non-disruptive fix.

So that’s it right there. These complainers are upset that Mesmer isn’t on the bottom of the food chain. All this nonsense about thief burst all u need is one button. Mesmer you see our greatsword blade there is counter play. All I’m asking is let it settle. And no I’m not like an engineer asking for there 1 skill I win button. Plenty of counter play with Mesmer stealth.

Because it doesn’t effect any game mode. Roaming is not supported. Why shouldn’t the Mesmer have access to a longer escape stealth. Pay attention to the Mesmer burst set ups and counter. If the Mesmer runs so what. Your mad because you cannot kill the Mesmer as easily. The patch has been here 2 weeks. There will be many counters let it shape up. Just nerfing skills because you or anyone has problems is not a reason to nerf something.

Funny part is imagine a thief Mesmer team. The thief can perma stealth no sign. At least the Mesmer has cooldowns.

Because you actually have to sweep in wvw 1 game mode or the Mesmer can port people in. You mean you have to stop the Zerg train more wet eyes.

Also the pure lack of knowledge. The hate is from reading or listening from others. People still worried about clone death. Lol. Please play the Mesmer then understand what’s going on in order to fight them. It is blind hate. Because we Mesmer use stealth they scream pu. Just really a lack of basic knowledge and the riot mentality. Hate for no reason.

Jashugan.4820:

The PU changes on mesmer r a joke, a rly bad joke… at least I gotta hope so.

PU right now, especially with mass invis, is pretty broken. In WvW where roaming in groups is a thing i highly doubt that ppl didn’t happen to run into 5 ppl groups with at least 2 mesmers. not to mention how strong mass invis allready is in a premade group with access to teamspeak or any other form of communication, the bonus stealth-duration, made it rediculous.
yes, other classes, mostly lookin at thief here, can stealth a whole groupe for a very long time too, BUT…. if a thief does so, u r mostly forced to stand really close to him and if taking shadow refuge, forced to stand in a specific area, for a certain duration, otherwise you won’t even be stealthed and punished with the reveald debuff instead. mass invis affects all allies in 1200 range which means both mesmer and his teammates r pretty much unbound to where they stand and what they do, they don’t have to gather together, the mesmer isn’t forced to stand fairly still, placing a smoke field and using explo finishers, no. still the mesmer and his teammates will disappear for 10 kittening seconds, cuz the mesmer menaged to hit 1 button, with his f4 there won’t be even that much counterplay in interrupting him before the cast finishes. as said, mass invis in a premade group is allready pretty strong to beginn with and i’m not a mesmer main, so i’m not sure whether teammates are affected by the bonus stealth-duration or not.

Capturing and defending a keep, became frustrating for a lot of people. i’ve seen a lot of people here writing about those 1-hit mesmers and i do agree, that the mesmer has other things rather than PU to should have taken a look at, but there are also a kitten lot of other mesmers running around with tank gear, only equipted and traited to hide in a keep, till they can port in their zerg. finding some of those, while they sit 24/7 in stealth is a huge pain in the kitten , especially in the borderlands bay, where a mesmer can get pretty mobile in the water without really relying on stealth in case of revealed debuff caused by a stealth trap, he will simply swim that time out. jump into the water, get out, blink up the ledge to save time (since a lot of classes still would have to walk that way) and if ur opponent gets to u jump back into the water and repeat… oh no wait, you should be able to stealth again now.

this whole thing about other classes being able to put on the revealed debuff is bullkitten… yes, there are classes that can put on a revealed debuff, but at first by far not every class has access to such abilities and the classes that have, don’t have great abilities to do that, any other ability is most likley to be a better choice overall. being forced into something that comparably weak feels kitten. one could argue, that if you play against a condi class, one is forced to play with more condi remove, but thing is, a lot of condition removing traits/skills are still usefull against none condition classes/builds (a removed imobelize is a removed imobelize after all) and any class can be encounterd as a condition version, whereas access to stealth is not a common thing. i don’t want to be foced to play with reveal, because mesmer and this PU kitten has become the flavor of the month, especially in wvw. oh and i was only talking about the bonus stealth duration, not about the mesmer fully regenerating himself in stealth and reengaging as nothing happened, hitting like a brick from a far away distance. it’s just not fun to play against.

but as said, i really think that a lot of other traits/ratios would need a closer look on rather than PU. PU should just be removed, none mesmers kitten about it and mesmer mains say that it ain’t even that great, end the debate :P

also sorry for my bad english.

EDIT: i like how every swearword is replaced by kitten… i like kittens

When I read this Justin timberlake just happened to be in the back ground. Can anyone guess what song was playing? Well I’ll tell you. Cry me a river, so fitting.

The proof is the lack of representation in tournament play against quality teams. A team not 1/2 random names in a match. Also stealth for long durations negates the primary pvp mode. Hence the opposition. Also pre patch maim was in a better place.

It is 1 per shatter.

Actually take inspiration. Pu is great but won’t help with conditions. Also power gear. Post patch only dueling is needed to be an effective shatter build. This allows you to experiment. I have ran dueling/inspiration/chaos. Imo dueling/inspiration is the core to a power shatter build and can add any 3 to finish depending on what you want. Dom=lockdown chaos=pu illusions=faster recharge weapon cooldowns/shatters.

Why are you advertising ranked pvp play and using pu? This build looks good for wvw roaming and small engagements. Condi losses effects with more players. So zerging would go power.

Risk reward? That warrior using those same up close weapons are the same ones used to create distance and reset the fight.

I would say power. Imo I have been experimenting with a core build of dueling/inspiration and what ever else. Dueling needed for de and shattering. Inspiration for the awesome condition clearing. From there you can choose chaos for pu, Dom for lockdown play, currently running in illusions for might stacking and faster shatter recharge. Was playing dueling/inspiration/chaos pu shatter a little slow with no weapon cooldowns but still really effective. Honestly to repeat power shatter dueling/inspiration as your core have fun from there.

I must be in the minority then. If by bird you mean a clipped wing caged aviary display piece then I’m all for it. The same circumstances destroy my clones in wvw/pvp. Still running de in all builds. The one bright spot is inspiration trait line. Duel/inspiration anything is really strong in the previous game modes.

I like using the signet with inspiration as a trait line. When summoning a phantasm you share your boons. So along with 50 percent up time on swiftness you get another boon to share to your group.

That is the myth. Power shatter only needs dueling now. I am having some interesting results trying different combinations. Very good builds strangely for pvp inspiration/dueling any other tree is slowly becoming meta. The condition cleanse is awesome in inspiration.

I think balance is a weird term. Are we balanced for what we can do? Are the classes balanced against each other. For what Mesmer has to do to achieve these results then I say no we are not balanced. Guardian burns engy nades these scream op yet where is the balance. The balance would be looking at all of this and fixing it. Why has Mesmer had no bug fixes and only nerfs? Is this balance? Other classes have had skills polished we are stuck with a sword leap that isn’t bugged but the delay is very clunky. Imo Mesmer seems to be balanced against itself and not fairly.

What I have been experimenting with. Using signet of inspiration can keep good map travel speed also going with inspiration trait line condition management is good (cleansing) and you can share all those boons with your group. Really nice build. Dom/duel/inspiration. Why I asked about runes.