Guild Wars 2

I have never said we were weak. Shatter build was an unforgiving spec. Post patch you have sustain options. I have constantly stated the burst is with or without pu. And pu works as a defensive trait and by taking if you give up more cc support or damage.

Choppy.4183:

denis.9487:

You can make some people happy some of the time but you can’t make all people happy all of the time. I suppose you should just create your own game at this point and deal with stealth as you see fit. Thing is no one knows in this arguement, we are in a transition period no one knows what’s next come hot. Instead of playing the game with new traits to keep us interested and have a little taste of what’s to come some people choose to qq over certain aspects of the game. No matter how you slice and dice Mesmer pre patch was limited in all 3 game modes now in this influx environment we have a purpose. Who is to say this won’t change come hot.

Lol, I’m pretty sure you’re a troll now. Not just for your “que sera sera” comment, but because I just figured I’d go through your post history to see if you had the same point of view as you seem to have now. What did I find on the first page I looked at?

From https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Is-Mesmer-really-a-good-choice-for-beginners/page/2….

denis.9487:

denis.9487:

Mesmer rocks. Just start small. Ignore the people that say shatter or die. Ease into the class with forgiving specs such as condition pu move to power pu. Then gradually change over pieces to become a bursty spec in pvp/wvw. Mesmer is a boss class. Become feared on your wvw home world!!

I stand by this. Mesmer is wicked in wvw. What other class can 100 to 0? Learning the class and what you can do is the fun part. I started the same way in first post. Now running 44006 gs/sword torch. The joke I suppose is on your spiked corpse clicking a way point.

Lmao. I even looked around through some of your other posts in case you were making a joke. Nope, the general theme was that mesmer was plenty powerful in wvw, but suffered in other areas. Now? “OMG, mesmer needed escape because it was a free bag!”. Lol.

You once accused me of a straw man. So in a typical slander move you take a post about whether Mesmer is a good beginner choice and try and spin it. That post was made pre patch so that build was 44006. No pu in that build. So again not sure what bearing it has on this topic. If anything you have proven my point the burst from Mesmer is there regardless if you trait pu. Pu allows re positioning and fleeing.

And funny how all you can say to my higher ground post is show my arguements. What I said must have merit then since you choose to ignore it.

Should I pull up your very first post in the warrior forum??? Sad man.

Choppy.4183:

denis.9487:

You can make some people happy some of the time but you can’t make all people happy all of the time. I suppose you should just create your own game at this point and deal with stealth as you see fit. Thing is no one knows in this arguement, we are in a transition period no one knows what’s next come hot. Instead of playing the game with new traits to keep us interested and have a little taste of what’s to come some people choose to qq over certain aspects of the game. No matter how you slice and dice Mesmer pre patch was limited in all 3 game modes now in this influx environment we have a purpose. Who is to say this won’t change come hot.

Lol, I’m pretty sure you’re a troll now. Not just for your “que sera sera” comment, but because I just figured I’d go through your post history to see if you had the same point of view as you seem to have now. What did I find on the first page I looked at?

From https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Is-Mesmer-really-a-good-choice-for-beginners/page/2….

denis.9487:

denis.9487:

Mesmer rocks. Just start small. Ignore the people that say shatter or die. Ease into the class with forgiving specs such as condition pu move to power pu. Then gradually change over pieces to become a bursty spec in pvp/wvw. Mesmer is a boss class. Become feared on your wvw home world!!

I stand by this. Mesmer is wicked in wvw. What other class can 100 to 0? Learning the class and what you can do is the fun part. I started the same way in first post. Now running 44006 gs/sword torch. The joke I suppose is on your spiked corpse clicking a way point.

Lmao. I even looked around through some of your other posts in case you were making a joke. Nope, the general theme was that mesmer was plenty powerful in wvw, but suffered in other areas. Now? “OMG, mesmer needed escape because it was a free bag!”. Lol.

I’m tired of trying to get my point across to a warrior who posted the same thing first in the warrior forums about letting it play out. Then came here and started a pu campaign in 3 threads. Figured take the high ground.

Choppy.4183:

apharma.3741:

Thing is, you can’t, as it’s the main balancing mode. This is what the game is balanced around. I also believe people said extra stealth is of less benefit due to point capture mechanics, not that it doesn’t matter. You’re whole argument is effectively saying, we should ignore how it’s balanced in all other game modes but WvW which by it’s very nature is really unbalanced not just in game mode but in stat inflation and general opponent differences.

No, I’ve not made any claims about pvp… I’ve repeated claims made by some of you that were used as counter arguments to rolling back the buff, that’s it. Only now are we starting to see you guys talking about a value to PU in pvp… until now, the point has been “nobody takes PU in pvp” and “the stealth bonus doesn’t do anything because it keeps you from capping point”.

But sure, let’s stick with the new line, especially if it’s more accurate. My earlier proposal to Necrotize wouldn’t affect pvp much at all. It would be better than PU was prepatch, it would retain the tactical stealth that’s relevant in pvp while removing the troll aspects that are a problem in wvw.

Why wouldn’t that make everyone happy?

You can make some people happy some of the time but you can’t make all people happy all of the time. I suppose you should just create your own game at this point and deal with stealth as you see fit. Thing is no one knows in this arguement, we are in a transition period no one knows what’s next come hot. Instead of playing the game with new traits to keep us interested and have a little taste of what’s to come some people choose to qq over certain aspects of the game. No matter how you slice and dice Mesmer pre patch was limited in all 3 game modes now in this influx environment we have a purpose. Who is to say this won’t change come hot.

Carighan.6758:

denis.9487:

Your missing the point. The only consistent game mode is pvp 5v5. How would you scale any different. The reason being allow skills to function better at what cut off? Also in wvw you group with how many 5 no matter how many in your Zerg. So seems efficient.

Hrm, sorry, english isn’t my mother tongue. Maybe I could have worded it better.

My point was that the main balancing aspect of skills, traits and classes should not be their power in a 5v5 context, but rather their scaling capabilities. That is to say, the raw power is of secondary concern to whether they work fluidly from 1v1 to 100v100 or not.

This works because really, in PvE and WvW, actual per-point balance isn’t all that important. Important is whether it feels like 100v100 people can still viably have a fight. And whether 100v80 feels as if one side has a 25% advantage. And whether 3v3 feels balanced assuming that mirror matchups happen (same classes, skills, traits etc). Nothing inherently “breaks” due to the size of either group scaling up or down.

Secondary, once design of skills and skill loadouts have been balanced this way, people can start tweaking numbers to look at a more one-for-one balance. But this ought to be secondary to a more binary, “does it work or not?”-balance.

Wouldn’t that just compound the roaming issue. Most of the hate is from roaming. If I’m following you imagine a solo player entering wvw but there is 100 people on the map. That would mean even more insta kills. If I’m not following sorry to early need my coffee.

Carighan.6758:

apharma.3741:

Thing is, you can’t, as it’s the main balancing mode. This is what the game is balanced around. I also believe people said extra stealth is of less benefit due to point capture mechanics, not that it doesn’t matter. You’re whole argument is effectively saying, we should ignore how it’s balanced in all other game modes but WvW which by it’s very nature is really unbalanced not just in game mode but in stat inflation and general opponent differences.

Yes, well, sPvP is the main balancing mode. That is the problem.

PvE is 1-100 people fighting. WvW is 1-100 people fighting. sPvP is 5v5. You balance for the latter, which also for all we know is a serious minority gamemode.

How does this make any sense? How is balancing for the loudmouthed minority useful? I know they are still hunting this dream of being an eSports game, but really it just looks sad at this point. Like they’re unwilling to let go, despite how much better the game could be off if skills were evaluated for their scaling ability in combat not for their 5v5 power.

Your missing the point. The only consistent game mode is pvp 5v5. How would you scale any different. The reason being allow skills to function better at what cut off? Also in wvw you group with how many 5 no matter how many in your Zerg. So seems efficient.

Loop.8106:

jayson.6512:

Most of the mesmer main said that mesmer has a high skill cap after patch but i just saw this vid and mesmer rn has a low skill cap.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtf63IpFLHw

I just have to add. This thread is regarding PU of how it’s unfair to other GM traits and what not / not fun to play vs. The video you linked, Tsuki is playing without PU. Full Glkittenter build. Full zerk gear in a wvw map where you can have ascended gear with might infusions and food.

Ive bursted warriors down with traveler runes before the June 23rd patch. WvW is not balanced. Stop treating it as actual pvp.

Well this just proves their point by not using pu it needs a nerf! And if you use it nerf it too. Sadly choppy/Jason are angry warriors upset about the entrance of such an awesome class like the Mesmer.

Choppy.4183:

@Necrotize
No, the counter arguments have been devoid of evidence and riddled with shoddy reasoning, like saying PU should be left alone because it doesn’t matter in pvp, as some have argued… repeatedly.

Look, the first step to solving a problem is recognizing there is one. PU is a problem, and a really easy one to solve. Even some of the people who’ve been against doing anything about PU have conceded it’s largely a troll trait or, as I’ve shown through my own experience, a way to cover for low skill.

Rolling back a buff that, afaik, NOBODY asked for and most mesmers apparently don’t use shouldn’t even be remotely controversial.

As for your preferred solution to PU, a +2s buff along with all of those other changes would do basically nothing to the stealth available to a PU mesmer (difference of 2s if they don’t take Veil, no difference if they do), while boosting the stealth of every non-PU mesmer running MI. That’s a stealth power creep, buddy, including your proposal to change The Pledge, which is just getting in front of an obvious bug fix and inserting a buff.

Lol, that’s some cynical stuff right there.

I have a counter proposal… run a +2s PU stealth buff on a trial basis (goes back to +1s if it’s too much), leaving all stealth bases alone except Veil, which goes to 4s. BUT, mesmer stealth skills cease being stackable. Using a stealth skill while in stealth simply resets the timer to the new skill’s duration.

You get to keep your ability to escape via stealth (and blink), but not as easily as you can now while using PU. No skill that you used to enter stealth will be off CD before your stealth ends, and your decision to hold your stealth skills for an escape pretty much comes at the cost of using those skills during the fight. Not unlike the stances used by pre-patch Nike warriors.

The first step of solving a problem is recognizing there is one. The next step is this a problem for you and some others or is it a game breaking problem.

You take the trait for its many uses. But being able to hide escape is the dominant reason. Self preservation. By doing so you give up something else. It comes with a cost. The cost is the choice do you add more cc damage support to your party or do you forgo and concentrate on being selfish.

Choppy.4183:

denis.9487:

Dodged what? The trait works. You yourself used it and it let you survive while your own party died and that leads to a nerf?

As has been explained to you repeatedly, that’s not it’s only use, but you remain fixated on this bit to the exclusion of others. Do you know what a strawman argument is?

But, sure, let’s just look at that one thing. Do you think it’s legitimate for a player to consistently survive party wipes without breaking a sweat? How about a party of PU mesmers? What condition would lead then to wipe at all?

And is that the value, in your opinion? Mesmers need a way to survive party wipes?

At the expense of being able to actually maybe provide more damage more support more cc for that then yes.

Choppy.4183:

denis.9487:

The last sentence speaks volumes. Because some people have an issue it needs to be nerfed? L2p l2 count higher than 5. Do not roam alone and bring a friend because after all this is guild wars not solo roam wars.

See how you dodged again? You can’t identify any value that you’ll admit to, and your best shot at suggesting counterplay shows you don’t even understand how stealth play works.

Dodged what? The trait works. You yourself used it and it let you survive while your own party died and that leads to a nerf?

bhagwad.4281:

denis.9487:

Choppy.4183:

Normally I wouldn’t ask for someone to defend why a change shouldn’t be made, but some of you are effectively saying where the stealth buff is a problem doesn’t matter, and anywhere that does matter the stealth bonus is a non-factor.

Neither of those is an argument to keep the buff. The closest you get to it is the first part, and that amounts to “it’s not worth looking at” not “the buff should stay as is”.

So you’re either digging in over something you think doesn’t matter or you think the buff does matter and you haven’t been straight about why it should be left alone.

If there’s no value to the buff, then you should have no objections to reducing it in the face of people pointing out where it is a problem.

The last sentence speaks volumes. Because some people have an issue it needs to be nerfed? L2p l2 count higher than 5. Do not roam alone and bring a friend because after all this is guild wars not solo roam wars.

This is ridiculous. Just because this is a team game doesn’t mean you need to have friends to play with. You can solo q just fine with 4 strangers as a team. That doesn’t make them your friends.

Running pu in pvp is fine for hot join hero stuff. Basically a thief and you plus 1 fights. In pvp stealth is kept in check with the game mode. My reference is to choppy experience in wvw when he traited pu his roaming party died he escaped so this lead him to believe pu is in need of a nerf. The trait is defensive with drawbacks by choosing it and it worked when he used it.

Choppy.4183:

Normally I wouldn’t ask for someone to defend why a change shouldn’t be made, but some of you are effectively saying where the stealth buff is a problem doesn’t matter, and anywhere that does matter the stealth bonus is a non-factor.

Neither of those is an argument to keep the buff. The closest you get to it is the first part, and that amounts to “it’s not worth looking at” not “the buff should stay as is”.

So you’re either digging in over something you think doesn’t matter or you think the buff does matter and you haven’t been straight about why it should be left alone.

If there’s no value to the buff, then you should have no objections to reducing it in the face of people pointing out where it is a problem.

The last sentence speaks volumes. Because some people have an issue it needs to be nerfed? L2p l2 count higher than 5. Do not roam alone and bring a friend because after all this is guild wars not solo roam wars.

Choppy.4183:

Lol, I didn’t ignore it, it was just irrelevant to the point.

Here’s a whacky idea for you… why don’t you mount a case in defense of keeping the PU stealth buff where it is? With most mesmers apparently opting not to take the trait, and no mesmers calling for a stealth buff prepatch, what’s the reason for the dogged defense again?

I don’t need to mount a defense for a perfectly good defensive trait that is build defining, due to some peoples inability to adapt or insist on using dueling or solo roaming to make arguements.

A thief using shadow refuge can dodge in stealth. How often to you honestly push pull a thief in shadow refuge. Almost like that’s the measure of a good thief.

That is it right there. We have become used to thief stealth. Watching a thief cnd off grey creatures other people change direction abuse stealth it’s ok. No problem. Mesmer gets some stealth granted double what we had and it’s an issue? (Taking a gm trait)The issue is l2p, game had thief for 3yeArs it’s ok. Wait get used to it and it will b ok with Mesmer also.

denis.9487:

Thief with off hand dagger is the same troll like level in wvw. They abuse stealth off animals off you off grey creatures. Have you tried to pin one down? Should I start a thread about the unfair practices? i defend the point in wvw with my guards same as you would a Mesmer. I am using wvw since I have a funny feeling is your experience. Mesmers are using inspiration more in pvp because guess why. You can still stealth burst but inspiration gives you more sustain than pu. Pu is a troll build not arguing but plenty of troll builds. Just think your crusade is a bit much.

My response was silly. You choose to ignore this. Your whole argument over pu is silly.

jayson.6512:

Fay.2357:

jayson.6512:

Fay.2357:

jayson.6512:

Fay.2357:

jayson.6512:

Most of the mesmer main said that mesmer has a high skill cap after patch but i just saw this vid and mesmer rn has a low skill cap.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtf63IpFLHw

It’s sorta adorable that you think a shatter montage is justification for literally anything.

I think you don’t get what i want to say when i post this? do you remember when a warrior Hambow healing signet is a thing that they can just stand and win even not outplaying the other player? What i want to say is that those kind of build should not exist because it makes the game boring. And same with this build.

You’re trying to say that mesmer has a low skill cap based off of a WvW shatter montage. I’m laughing at you for doing so.

Whatever dude this show that guild wars 2 players as long they main the class they won’t admit if it’s broken. Guild Wars 2 player always my class is not broken but other class is so please nerf them. I only main a warrior and i admit that some of the build is broken and that’s why i stop playing for now in spvp because everybody there thinks they are pro. And i’m calling mesmer has a low skill cap base on some broken builds if you can’t admit it then fine.

No, what you’re doing is making a fool of yourself. You clearly don’t understand what a skill cap is. You clearly don’t understand how little a shatter montage demonstrates anything. You clearly have only a tenuous grasp of how to formulate a coherent argument, and all of this is displayed clearly for anyone looking at this conversation.

Actually i look like a fool everytime i encounter a mesmer after patch because whatever build or counter build i make it just doesn’t work. someone said here maybe my dueling partner is better than me before patch but the truth is we are just on the same level how do i know we are on the same level? because after this balance patch he didn’t even need to outplay me and doesn’t even need to change build to counter my builds unlike then we switch different build to counter one another and if someone mess up you lose. But i have to make different builds just to find out how to counter him. Look i’m not here trying to make your class unplayable but it’s really not fun i love GW2 pvp but right now i can’t enjoy it seeing those low skilled players using cheesy build or broken builds to dominate.

You are basing your entire mission or hate on dueling??? Gw2 the name itself implies what? The game has also stated dueling is something for fun to see you had the biggest internet p****s. It just inflates egos. Sorry you can’t duel or have yet to find a counter. If you ego is so insulted then maybe learn another class and duel. But why rage over an unsupported not designed for way to play the game.

Thief with off hand dagger is the same troll like level in wvw. They abuse stealth off animals off you off grey creatures. Have you tried to pin one down? Should I start a thread about the unfair practices? i defend the point in wvw with my guards same as you would a Mesmer. I am using wvw since I have a funny feeling is your experience. Mesmers are using inspiration more in pvp because guess why. You can still stealth burst but inspiration gives you more sustain than pu. Pu is a troll build not arguing but plenty of troll builds. Just think your crusade is a bit much.

Choppy.4183:

denis.9487:

Your issue is with stealth not pu. Let me say it again Mesmer can stealth burst with or without pu.

If that were true, I’d be saying stealth should be removed from mesmers (and everyone else) altogether, yet I haven’t said that at all.

Ok you want to nerf pu. All pu does is add time. No boon change same from pre patch. The burst from Mesmer is same pre patch. So by adding time it turns into some god like character? So what is a good number from pre patch to post patch? Is there a good number? When the same stuff is being done then what? imo pu is not the issue. Does pu let you bunker? Does pu allow anything more than Mesmer can already do? The answer is sit in stealth.

Choppy.4183:

denis.9487:

Your compairing apples to oranges. Why are you fighting so hard to nerf?

Oh really? And here I thought it was just about the amount of damage that could be delivered to a target and how much you could prevent them delivering to you.

If, as you’d have it, being able to deliver a burst out of 3s of stealth is the same as having 6s to do it, and short lived boons don’t matter, and that the long stealth is really just good for getting away, there’s no real reason to expect hugely different results with thieves than mesmers.

And the reason I want it nerfed is, as I’ve said repeatedly, it lacks counterplay in its current form and completely borks the risk:reward balance.

Your issue is with stealth not pu. Let me say it again Mesmer can stealth burst with or without pu.

Choppy.4183:

denis.9487:

I keep avoiding the stealth burst because it can be achieved with or without pu. I don’t know what to tell you except everything from before. You switch threads doesn’t mean anything.

If true, then you wouldn’t be fighting so hard to keep the PU stealth buff.

You also dodged the stealth trait for thieves challenge. Thieves can get a burst off in the 3s provided by C&D or leaping through BP. Therefore, by your argument, giving them a +100% stealth boost and a handful of boons wouldn’t be a problem at all, correct?

Your compairing apples to oranges. Why are you fighting so hard to nerf?

Your issue is with stealth in general. Adding all these extra things. Your right we can burst from stealth with or without pu. So why nerf pu? Mesmer cannot trade blows. In open field pu is annoying and will win most encounters. Move the fight to something that matters. Mesmer with all our evades stealth we will lose the circle or point.

Choppy.4183:

denis.9487:

Again boons been there pre patch. Count higher. Don’t duel or duel with rules and don’t solo roam. Since pu Mesmer is usually left till the end of engagements whether you kill or they ran still a victory.

Well, you’ve more or less just conceded there’s no counterplay right there, except you still seem fixed on the notion that a PU mesmer doesn’t actually do anything in a fight, which is ridiculous.

PU condi mesmers will put a lot of condi pressure on the field, and PU shatter will do a very respectable amount of direct damage. Both could bring the ranged interrupt/cc via Mantra of Distraction if they wanted to.

In the sort of fight you’re describing, they wouldn’t even have to extend the stealths. They’d use one, and anyone chasing them would abandon target because nobody’s going to wait around for 6s doing mostly nothing, allowing the PU mesmer to come out of stealth and unload again. If they’ve taken the inspiration line, they’re bringing a bunch of support to their team, and the Mass Invisibility they’ll be packing is a game changer in any small fight.

I’m sorry, but it’s become pretty clear that you don’t really have an argument here. You also don’t appear to have any experience using PU or fighting against it. Several times now you’ve described it as a defensive trait with the chief purpose of helping a mesmer run away. Despite all these posts, you remain unaware of the enormous tactical advantage that stealth brings to a fight.

I suppose you’d be cool with a PU equivalent for thieves too, eh? I mean, all you’d need to do is count higher and the boons would be short lived. You could leave them till the end of the engagement and, when they ran away, it’d still be a victory.

I keep avoiding the stealth burst because it can be achieved with or without pu. I don’t know what to tell you except everything from before. You switch threads doesn’t mean anything.

Kaamau.5341:

Inspiration is really strong imo. I run it with the BD from chaos, I’m shatter but my boons and sustain is out of this world, I run full zerker and I feel like a tank.

So funny you said this. What I have been running in wvw food buffs guard stacks it is fun.

Choppy.4183:

denis.9487:

The boons are short lived hasn’t changed from pre patch. My suggestion is learn to count higher post patch.

I really get the sense you haven’t fought many mesmers running PU as a non mesmer.

The aegis is what prevents your opponent from getting lucky and hitting you while you’re stealthed, which can occasionally tip them off that you’re there if an air or fire sigil procs.

The length of the stealth matters because it gives you a longer timeframe in which to choose when to end the stealth. With thieves, they usually have a few seconds and they have to get to melee, so you can anticipate that hit with greater accuracy. With mesmers, they don’t really have to close (better for their damage if they do, but not necessary), they don’t need the full amount of time to reposition, and can even extend the stealth without giving a tell, if they want, which is something a thief often can’t do in a fight.

So, again, where’s the counterplay there?

Again boons been there pre patch. Count higher. Don’t duel or duel with rules and don’t solo roam. Since pu Mesmer is usually left till the end of engagements whether you kill or they ran still a victory.

Choppy.4183:

Purecura.1795:

Seems most of those complaining about the Mesmer, do not really make any sense at all. Seems most are upset that we can enter stealth and burst “safely” from stealth. Seems most are reluctant to learn how to counter us, so they complain we are OP, and we need a NERF. I find that highly unfair.

What’s the counter to long mesmer stealths, occasionally combined with aegis? Are you going to suggest stealth traps like someone did in the other thread?

The boons are short lived hasn’t changed from pre patch. My suggestion is learn to count higher post patch.

So only warrior has the monopoly on stunning? I understand the no tell with mantra but removing it is bad.

scerevisiae.1972:

Thing with mesmer is you can burst as hard as thief but still have excellent ranged damage, utility plus survivability. It is a bit too good atm, I predict nerfs.

The famous 3/3/3/3/3 build.

I think your roaming experience was different than mine. Nike warriors pre patch dominated Mesmer due to being able to disengage and come back. Also pre patch running shatter taking gs/ sword torch was a serious disadvantage against a warrior. The healing signet kept you safe. Switching to sword pistol gs gave you more power but at a cost. Pre patch shatter had really poor disengage when compared to warrior. Your right kite but warrior bad enough gap closers for closing and disengaging.

Choppy.4183:

Vague Memory.2817:

Mes is still one of the most challenging classes to learn. But good luck.

It really isn’t. How many people who main other classes but have recently switched to mesmer have to say this before it sinks in. Mesmer is super easy to pick up and be effective.

Maybe it has a higher skill ceiling (i.e. has lots of potential to gain power as you master the class), but the skill floor (i.e. what you need to be a viable threat) is about as low as it gets now.

If by viable you mean pressing 2 on greatsword and then shattering I suppose, sword swap shatter. That’s all I see from new mesmers. Gets old predictable so I would argue not viable.

Choppy.4183:

denis.9487:

Pre patch shatter Mesmer was the hardest to play solo roam because we had no sustain. Post patch we still can shatter but now have sustain either with chaos of inspiration. What you see is a threat to your warrior class why you constantly complain. Mesmer is viable burst wise with or without pu. Pre patch we had pu builds hence the nerf added more boons.

So you’re saying the reason mesmers seemed strong pre-patch is because I was mostly running a warrior and they were a hard counter? Could be, I certainly wouldn’t have had a lot of experience playing against them on other classes then.

Still, the people I know who main mesmers certainly weren’t complaining about it, and it wasn’t as though roaming mesmers were in short supply. I saw them about as much as I saw roaming necros, guardians, and probably engineers. That would put them in the middle of the pack as far as roaming went, so presumably they were meeting with at least some success. I don’t expect many people would login to be a bag delivery service.

You saw condition pu roaming builds. Again shatter was very unforgiving due to the sustain issue. Now having 3 trait lines you have the burst plus either more invis (chaos) or more condition plus healing management (inspiration). And yes Mesmer was a food item unless running condition pu (was nerfed already watered down boons) or stealth shatter just if you missed the burst you were dead so not to many ran this pre patch (not fun dying and running back). Power pu had a small window but again couldn’t beat certain classes ie a warrior due to only having 1 damaging phantasm. Torch phantasm sucks for dps. Again since damage is high for everyone I can run torch for defense but since shatters hurt now it actually works. Also stealth is needed for Mesmer, we are a light armored class the gimmick of clones confusing players is gone unless a new player.

Choppy.4183:

apharma.3741:

You’re fooling yourself by saying they weren’t free bags pre patch. Everyone except guardian had better mobility than mesmer. The only thing a mesmer could do to escape a bad situation in WvW find a nice place to port up to where the enemy would take longer to get there. If not, they were chased down and murdered with ease and I say that as someone who has chased down and murdered them on all classes and being on the other end of it.

PvP it’s much easier because of point mechanics and the rediculous amount of stuff to LoS behind.

So you weren’t able to win fights as a mesmer pre-patch? I have a hard time believing you had to run from most fights and, not having enough disengage, became a free bag.

That’s not what you’re saying, is it? Shatter mesmers were very effective in wvw pre-patch, and condi mesmers had their hey day too. They were also an integral part of wvw gank squads.

Also, necros. They were much easier to hold down if they needed to escape than mesmers.

Pre patch shatter Mesmer was the hardest to play solo roam because we had no sustain. Post patch we still can shatter but now have sustain either with chaos of inspiration. What you see is a threat to your warrior class why you constantly complain. Mesmer is viable burst wise with or without pu. Pre patch we had pu builds hence the nerf added more boons.

I must say pretty poor play editing the video. No matter what you say now looks really fishy. Destroys the golem theory of doing damage we can’t see! All it shows is a person upset at suggestions so let me edit video to make it seem like the burst was unavoidable. Poor taste sir.

The problem is damage running high on all classes. The ranger was trying to do the same thing but he/she got caught. The damage needs to be looked at before class nerfs.

So by your assumption going all in for lockdown means you trait all lockdown traits then. Sorry I though to trait another line.

The build lacked condition removal. Removing iol and taking resolve could help. Just Inspiration like you meantioned allows more sustain along with team support.

I’d argue inspiration is better but that’s my 2 cents.

Choppy.4183:

Purecura.1795:

This. PU Mesmer is fine. People are complaining because they just dont know HOW to deal with the new Mesmer. But that does not mean we are invincible. Just not as easy to kill, like before.

Except running a PU mesmer is faceroll easy to play, and the counterplay is limited relative to where it should be. If you don’t think PU is dead easy, or that mesmers were easy kills before the PU buff, then the l2p issue isn’t with people calling for a nerf to PU.

Pu makes escaping easy. If that’s what you consider face roll, then it stands to reason that all these warriors are upset since they had the monopoly on disengagements. The only difference is being able to see the opponent flee.

Sadly pu is just hated. Left alone add 1 second double whatever the case is will never be enough. If you can count to base level stealth then am I wrong in to assume one can count higher if using pu? I am not opposed to a nerf but I think if damage was looked at across all classes first it might actually help the situation before nerfing class specifics.

The funny part is you waited and watched that other Mesmer. The hunter became the prey. You engaged and almost dropped your target. Would this be an issue if you rapid fired that other Mesmer? You tried to do the very same thing your upset about.

Fighting with hand behind back is also forcing the melee issue. You get in and get out in pvp. We are not meant to trade blows in melee long term.

jayson.6512:

denis.9487:

That video was in the warrior forums and it is what all this threads to nerf pu are stemming from. So you watch a manage of shatter burts so what. That video is edited how many hours to find that perfect scenario. Should we take a warrior roaming vid hand selected, edited and basically made for enjoyment and start a crusade to nerf reckless dodge.

don’t care if they nerf reckless dodge i don’t even use it and rampage. My point is with that burst you can kill any 1vs1 or 1vs2 without the need to outplaying the other player look i don’t want the mesmer class to be nerf to the ground but it’s not really fun fighting a class that you can’t outplay. And it’s not just a video i fought a mesmer almost similar to that build and i end up dead in seconds.

You missed my point. How fun would the warrior or Mesmer any toon video be if it was nothing but down state? The point I tried to make is it is select footage. I have seen plenty of gs/rifle builds in wvw doing the same.

Try dueling/inspiration/chaos. De temporal enchanter and bountiful disillusionment. The idea is still shatter do damage but all your shatters will give stability plus other boon. Heal and remove a condition. Trait master of manipulations for reflects. Run decoy blink null field. If you don’t like that then drop temp enchanter and take illusionary inspiration and share all the boons you receive after shattering.

That video was in the warrior forums and it is what all this threads to nerf pu are stemming from. So you watch a manage of shatter burts so what. That video is edited how many hours to find that perfect scenario. Should we take a warrior roaming vid hand selected, edited and basically made for enjoyment and start a crusade to nerf reckless dodge.

Firelysm.4967:

It’s fun for you, and it’s nothing near fun for other people playing versus mesmer with 30% unjustified damage where you can to easily apply conditions and shatter damage on satter mesmer.. while not even geting punished for it. You just apply condis on poor thing, then hide, while the target trying to find you, specially melee will die jsut by standing, and even faster by searching for you.

PU mesmers is number one on my favourite nerf list.
Next one is new “EAZ PZ SHATTER THIS” build.. where requires to press 3 buttons very quickly to make 14k damage. This is not how it should be, every class has insane cast time to make this happend, and then execution, mesmer can deal that damage within 2 second time lapse from casting to damage done, which includes also walking to the target.

2ND on my favourite list is shatter nerf which can deal 22k damage on target with 3,3k ARMOR and 26k HP. Is this single rotation justified ? No.

I’m not having desire to nerf anything to the ground, all i want is equal balance, and fair play. Both PU and shatter hit way to hard, and both are having little to no counter in 1v1 2v1, people say don’t exegerate but my friend yesterday outplayed 2v8, killed 3 and got away with Shatter mesmer, came back and killed the other 4 trying to ress those pore guys. Keep in mind they were all above silver, so those were not some bronze scrubs that just made virgin steps into WvW.

NOTE: some builds are out of place, some are very weak, and my desire is that every style should have a chance to be played, and at least little viable, and every build should have counter by every profession not just D/D ele.

I have a nerf list but not any toons. Just miss information, hatred, exaggeration, and probably poorly played experiences that end up in our forum.

In all seriousness the player base has adjusted since release. This is not a statement saying we are fine. I agree some things needs looking at but only after stat transfer across all toons. Just hate the Mesmer bashing, the class finally received some much needed attention.

Sandrox.9524:

denis.9487:

aspirine.6852:

Remember the crying from mesmers when thiefs could burst them down from stealth, and now we can do the same and its ok all of a sudden? Come on be honest it;s insane now.

What’s changed? The Mesmer can fight back. It’s insane Mesmer can fight back?!?!?

Pretty much could fight back before,maybe you need to play more..?

That statement “l2p” should be applied before you even posted.