Guild Wars 2

Well my only small issue. That ele although he did run to the guards constantly pulled the fight away from them. Maybe just a bow instead of the spike. Especially since it lasted so long. My 2 cents.

OriOri.8724:

Ross Biddle.2367:

OriOri.8724:

I disgaree. Chronos are not forced into the choices you have outlined in your post if they want to be competitive in PvP. You merely picked the easiest to play build (which, ironically, is the build most people are built to counter if they are trying to fight you, which makes it easier on them).

If you are a truly good chronomancer you won’t be forced into this build in order to play a good/great game. The people that feel forced into this build are the mediocre players that don’t really understand the class well enough to come up with their own build

This is overly simplified. The reality is the meta determines the build. I can p;ay a great game of power shatter, be really skilled at it, but that doesn’t mean it’ll contribute to a win. Nor does it mean I brought everything that I could have to the team. In fact history has shown us that the issue with Mes has always been not “are we good at XYZ” but rather “doesnt this other class/build do XYZ better than us?”

The fact you won’t get past though is that, once our build, whatever the build, runs out of shatters we’re dead in the water. So any build (and only those builds) that can fascilitate Maximum illusion generation, in conjunction with maximum shatter potential, are the strongest and most viable. Arguably, viability stops at the point you have no more F1-F4’s left to fire. Because, as has already been stated, our weapon sets bring very, very little to the table of what we need.

Of course there are a few exceptions, but those things do not make things stand on their own (I’m talking chaos storm on its massive CD, or an iWave CC for an interrupt – assuming you can even get them to land vs the aegis, invuln, evade, stability spam etc XD ).

Again, this is just describing someone who isn’t that great with the class. Apparently you have missed all the posts in this subforum recently with people making it to legendary this season with a power shatter, support or lockdown builds. Its entirely possible to play nearly any build you want and still be a huge help to the team if you are good at it.

And quite frankly, just because you are playing the meta build does not mean you are bringing anything to your team. By far most of the people i have met running the meta battle builds for mesmer suck kitten , doesn’t matter if it is a ranked game or an unranked game. They play a build someone else gave them because they are not good enough with the class to design a build that fits their playstyle.

Yes, a mesmer relies pretty heavily on their shatters. But again part of being good at the class is knowing when to use a shatter and when not to. Its two separate things to be a great mesmer and burn through your shatters trying to help in a 2v3 fight near the end of the game and end up dead at the end but helped your team secure the point than it is to blow through all of your shatters on a 1v1 that should have been quick and easy because you just don’t know how to play the class and when to use shatters. Mesmers are not locked down into a single build in this season. The only people who think so are the ones who can’t design a viable build for their own playstyle. It will always be easier to be great at a class if you figure out your playstyle and make a build to suit it than it will be to copy a build someone else made and attempt the change your playstyle to suit that new build.

Ok. That’s great play how you want no arguement. But just because your playstyle favors say range does that mean stay at range all the time? The meta builds are just that a build that when used by anyone perform better than other builds. Great players take it to greatness. Average to average and so on. Now a great player can take shatter lockdown and succeed but at what cost. Time perfect team comp enemy team comp. so many factors. It is called an optimum build for a reason. Again play how you want.

OriOri.8724:

I disgaree. Chronos are not forced into the choices you have outlined in your post if they want to be competitive in PvP. You merely picked the easiest to play build (which, ironically, is the build most people are built to counter if they are trying to fight you, which makes it easier on them).

If you are a truly good chronomancer you won’t be forced into this build in order to play a good/great game. The people that feel forced into this build are the mediocre players that don’t really understand the class well enough to come up with their own build

This is so wrong. Your build?? By changing 1 or 2 traits in a trait line makes it your own build? By not choosing a trait line because you feel it works better although has been shown is inferior; makes it your build? Your build because you can crush low end players using anything and make statements about your build. Sadly once past the 1 trick pony most players can survive and thrive in this meta against a Mesmer.

This has been an issue for Mesmer from the start. We needed de due to clone creation. We can get by now using chrono to make clones. Anet has stated they want a shattering Mesmer. We need clones/phantasms to shatter so as before we are still locked into taking certain traits just to create ammo to use our core feature. If they made de a feature baked in it would help. Imo.

Colly.4073:

Nice fight’s there and also some nice video editing.

The only thing i am not keen on is the way you add text’s on the screen especially when it’s mocking the person your fighting.

other than that well done

It’s called humor. When someone trips; make sure ok then can laugh about it.

Or they could just remove shattered conditions and make it a core feature. Promotes active shattering and removes us from taking inspiration.

apharma.3741:

Not too much to mention that others haven’t.

Some of my guild use hoelbrak runes, saffron bread and chrono to get -40% all condition duratio and -65% condition duration on soft CC. This lets them use either mantra of resolve or just kite and wait out conditions without being too stressed by them. They can run domination, duelling and chrono just fine and don’t have too much trouble with conditions.

I on the other hand run scholar runes so I choose to pick up the inspiration line instead of duelling and run a maintenance oil with some assassins armour for extra crit chance I lack by not having duelling. I run ether feast for the big heal and if I find conditions are a real problem I switch to mantra of restoration.

I take cleanse on shatter, sometimes I will trait glamour master and take null field if my group is more susceptible to conditions instead of mantra of distraction. If I am using 2 mantras I take restorative mantras otherwise just pick whichever adept you find you’ll get the most use from.

Oh and I pick life steal food because if gives you a bit more sustain in addition to the heals from inspiration.

Another big tip not mentioned yet is know what skills stack a lot of conditions and when players will use these. A lot of the time they can be evaded, blocked or interrupted so you don’t have to worry about conditions if they never get applied. Likewise learning when to cleanse is a good idea. Example being that necros mostly stack bleed and poison for damage, cleansing at 3-5 stacks is not a good idea, wait for them to build up higher then cleanse. Conditions are cleansed on a first in last out way so if 10 stacks of confusion were put on you, then 4 others, you’d have to cleanse the 4 before you hit the confusion. Sometimes waiting out some stacks to cleanse a higher and more lethal stack is needed.

The first part about runes and food is a moot point. Usually if running condition build then the food runes of the applicator will just negate yours. Thus still having to manage a condition build with 2k conditions ticking on you.

Crowley.8761:

I just came back last week after 2+ years away, and honestly it’s not that hard to get into. The mesmer is still a mesmer as you will remember it, but the “meta” of the game focuses on conditions and shatter using the new chronomancer elite specc so yes HoTs is definitely required if you want to… not suck.

Although there is a mob of people trolling through threads screaming at people for suggestion something other than the current metabattle build be used – it is perfectly fine to go your own way in solo queues and current unranked. Generally people that aren’t mindless zombies will find fun power builds to run that are surprisingly capable.

My advice is – test things out. Don’t listen to posts that are gonna show up below me yelling at me for suggestion the current meta isn’t the ONLY way to play it. What a lot of people fail to understand is that the “meta build” is designed around a specific composition, a composition you most likely won’t be playing.

TL;DR – Power works just fine as well as condi, you just gotta know how to use it.

What you said is true. Play what you want. The difference between condition shatter no matter what you use for weapons/traits/builds is light years ahead of power. Sure you could walk to that location or fly your choice how you want to spend your time.

Well in post say haven’t done pvp yet. In wvw I run scepter/torch sword/shield. Chaos/illusions/chrono. I love the weapon set. Is it optimal sure for me. Is it meta no. But as others have said run what you can make work. If your personal performance is better with your weapon set then run it. Have fun.

Crowley.8761:

Fay.2357:

I’ll take ‘Things that only happen to target golems’ for 1200, Alex.

It’s actually not that difficult to set up, is it? You start off with GS, do your thing, phanta up, swap weps, phanta up, drop well and you’re ready to burst. 3-3-2-F1.

Then you can just wait for your new phantas to hit again while doing whatever needs to be done, be it healing, dodging, blink, stealth, whatever. I think the real skill gap comes when deciding the best time for a split – which I totally suck at.

If that combo is golem only for most people I don’t think the power build strength is the main problem…

That same burst with gs has been the staple from the beginning. Landing that combo that same old combo is probably the most predictable move. So one key press by the enemy and then your right we run around for 10 seconds doing nothing in power shatter.

Silverkey.2078:

Vieux P.1238:

Right- gap between meta & not hits hard. But, What do you mean the problem is not from Anet running the mesmer down? It’s exactly that! & you just pointed it out. -Your saying exactly what i’m saying but in more details. Since HoT came out, almost one by one, Anet nerfed or killed every mesmer viable build to the ground. Build diversity but one is gone by Anet hand except for Condi build …we all know this. I’m not saying builds such as the bunker mesmer should not have bin deleted. Sure, i agree it was to much. But, what about all does other viable build that got destroyed? ( PU, mantra, power shatter, chrono Alacrity?..& ect…, all nerfed & destroyed.)

So let’s assume we have somehow 3 great archetypes, meaning 3 types of builds that were meta at some point:

• power shatter (the most viable build for most of mesmer history, meta after june patch up to HoT)
• bunker chrono (season 1 meta)
• condi chrono (season 2 and 3 meta)

Bunker chrono is the only one I can agree with you. It was demolished by nerfs. Essentially, removing quickness rez + alacrity nerf would have been enough to put the build in a bad spot, but they had to reduce protection, resistance, blind etc… as well. So we ended up with a build with decent but not amazing survivability, and bad support (the main problem of bunker mesmer currently is the lack of support).

But when people complain about the lack of build diversity for mesmers, they seem to mostly mean power shatter.

Power shatter was made very strong with the june patch. From then, they got many nerfs, but those nerfs, while often misdirected, did not put mesmer out of the meta. What killed power shatter is power creep of HoT. The build died when all broken elite specs arrived. Some people try to stick to it after the expansion, since power shatter was actually buffed by chronomancer. But despite CS, despite strong alacrity, despite blur on precog, etc… power shatter could not rival the super broken elite specs of other classes.

So I won’t blame a-net for nerfing chronomancer. I will however blame a-net (and many in the community who support this) for not nerfing elite specs back to core levels, for letting those builds with insane sustained damage (which power shatter does not have) and absolutely insane survivability despite that (which power shatter definitely does not have) ruling gw2 PvP. Power shatter is high risk, high reward. How can we compare to all the very low risk, very high reward specs around?

Your whole point is good except Mesmer was the only class to take so many nerfs. They didn’t look at any other classes with this power creep and adjust, just Mesmer. That’s the problem.

Plus it’s a really good watch. Best vid in awhile. Imo

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Video-Legend-with-F2P-Mesmer
Anything is possible. Just practice.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/external?l=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dd-IACGTF3gw

SteepledHat.1345:

denis.9487:

SteepledHat.1345:

Iirc every one of the above builds takes inspiration with the defender spawn and heals/condi cleanse on shatter. Mine takes mantra cleanse… in no way do we have issues with conditions. Especially when, if put in a tough spot, you can wait out condis with continuum split and take condi reducing food. You sound like a novice.

Yes you can run and wait out the conditions and if your lucky might make that tower/keep door and then die behind walls loosing all stacks. Or maybe you just fight by that tower or camp and play poke and run. But calling someone a novice due to taking inspiration as a trait line is pretty funny. If not using chrono inspiration will cure 4 conditions and that mantra cleanse does 4 also. Seems sort of a personal preference.

What are you even talking about, I took inspiration in my build. I was calling him a novice because he is saying ridiculous things.

Also, the inspiration trait removes only one condition no matter the number of illusions.

Ok. Let’s try this again. If not taking chrono with inspiration. 4 shatters 4 conditions cleansed. Mantra 2 charges 4 conditions cleansed. It’s the same. Didn’t you say everyone takes inspiration I take mantra??

SteepledHat.1345:

Iirc every one of the above builds takes inspiration with the defender spawn and heals/condi cleanse on shatter. Mine takes mantra cleanse… in no way do we have issues with conditions. Especially when, if put in a tough spot, you can wait out condis with continuum split and take condi reducing food. You sound like a novice.

Yes you can run and wait out the conditions and if your lucky might make that tower/keep door and then die behind walls loosing all stacks. Or maybe you just fight by that tower or camp and play poke and run. But calling someone a novice due to taking inspiration as a trait line is pretty funny. If not using chrono inspiration will cure 4 conditions and that mantra cleanse does 4 also. Seems sort of a personal preference.

Tomiyou.3790:

How about you increase the number of illusions required to 3? This would make it much more skillful too and it would reduce the current kittened condishatter spam mesmer has. Most mesmers like shatter spam, but I absolutely pity them for having to rely on something so braindead to even stay in meta. When I played mesmer, it used to be definiton of skill. Now it is spam.

Because the most skillful of player can’t use any other build to enter the meta. Let’s just nerf condition shatter because it has been gutted already. Then all those skilled mesmers can not be in the meta!!

Simonoly.4352:

If people want more time to react to Moa Morph, they could just make it like Magnet on Engi. 1.25 second channel with an obvious channel animation on the target not just the caster. Target starts to glow in a Mesmery way whilst Moa is being channelled so they can react to it even when a fight has become crazy hectic and it’s no longer possible to tell what the Mesmer is doing.

Isn’t that the whole point. Having an icon on your bar and watching the Mesmer. I mean it’s hard enough to land as it is. We shouldn’t dumb down play or penalize for creative uses through positioning flanking or just by taking advantage of the chaos.

Silhouette.5631:

See that’s the thing about balance

It has NOTHING to do with a players skill

its the balance of THE GAME

And if you go through these forums, for every class, every time there’s been a complaint about something people jump on the bandwagon and say L2P. Aaaaand anet gives us a balance patch anyways

Its not that your words are harsh. It is that they are not well thought out, they are lazy, and they do nothing to contribute to the balance and overall health of the game.

If you truly think moa’s balanced please give me a reason other than “Its this way already just deal with it”

Does it make up for other flaws the class has?
Is it generaly as powerful or usefull as other elites the class has?
Is it less powerful or useful than skills other classes have such as Killshot on warrior?

The player skill has everything to do with this. Moa is not game breaking. It’s game breaking to you because you have issues with it. Hence my suggestion. It should be more powerful than killshot it’s a weapon skill. Moa is an elite. It has a long cool down and a telegraph. Whether it needs a stronger tell sure. But compairing an elite in a 1v1 is wrong. If Anet makes changes it has nothing to do with qq or people defending the qq.

Silhouette.5631:

It has been around since the beginning…. when the game was different
And DPS was lower
and there was less CC

short version

Moa is not balanced for the current game
And you’re right the game is not balanced for 1v1 duels, It hasn’t been for a while. We should fix that

Again l2p. Suggesting balance for 1v1 is like the long list of changes we as consumers wish we could have. The provider this case Anet has a direction. Sorry for the harsh words but l2p or move on. Do not support the game or adapt. You know adaption is the key. Imagine if we qq over everything in life. We still would be ooze.

This isn’t duel war 2. That’s your first mistake.

Dahkeus.8243:

The one to Rule.2593:

Dahkeus.8243:

Moa and all mesmer elites still should not work with CS. Chronomancer is probably the biggest offender when it comes to elite specs from HoT that make core builds completely irrelevant. There’s so much power creep just from alacrity alone that even if you couldn’t CS elites, chronos would still be beasts.

This class needs a heavy nerf to Chrono along with some reasonable buffs to core spec specializations so that it both takes this class off the godly OP tier in PvP and also makes effective outside of Chrono.

A good example of this would be to buff DPS from core traits so that a mesmer could run something beyond Chrono support in a raid and be useful since the personal DPS of mesmer is just so terrible.

I’ve seen this same thing parroted over and over again. Get used to it, the elite epcs aren’t going to be hard nerfed like you want, nor are the core specs going to recieve a buff, even then all it would do is make chrono unplayable. They already got a 40% nerf to alacrity. Any more and it will be totally useless with no reason to take them in raid.

But they have been. Look at Scrapper. Look at Dragon Hunter.

And if you read my post you’d see that I’m advocating buffs to core lines along with nerfs to the elite line, so no, they wouldn’t be useless in a raid or anything like that.

Want an example of how to do this as simply as possible?

Remove the ability to CS elite skills and then reduce the cooldown of Time Warp to be equal to CS.

Voila! Chronos are just as strong in raids as before and no longer OP moa spammers in PvP.

@ People suggesting moa get removed: I totally disagree with this. I think Moa is a unique skill that makes for some awesome clutch plays. However, without enough cooldown, it just becomes ridiculous. Before HoT, moa was a solid, balanced elite.

That last sentence. Before hot moa was a solid balanced elite. The cooldowm made this elite not worth it. Either tw for group damage or mass for personal defense. But moa did not see game play like you assert.

Very entertaining. Great game play. 2 thumbs up.

aelfwe.4239:

apharma.3741:

Not everyone asking to remove CS is a PvPer or is asking for it to simply be removed without buffs or changes in other areas.

While I mainly WvW and PvE I would hate for all Mesmer utilities and abilities to be balanced around CS which is what they will have to do when they make changes to things we don’t use. Today it’s moa that’s the problem, what will it be tomorrow? Double domination signet? Mimic letting you triple/quad cast?

I for one would like to see the removal of CS but make improved alacrity be a 50% duration to all alacrity, even that to allies. Then have a rework of the phantasm mechanic, you know your stuff so you know how hilariously pathetic base Mesmer is in PvE. Wouldn’t it be good to have an actual competitive DPS build and to shatter because you want to shatter not because your cool downs allow you to resummon your phantasms asap so you don’t lose DPS?

The huge majority of people asking to remove cs comes out from pvp, it’s enough to read the threads we had where around the 90% of people asking for it were speaking from a pvp perspecive.

Then there are the last 10% asking to remove cs , who are, like you, the “idealist” group.

What’s the idealist group?

The idealist group are those who, for some reason or another, do not enjoy the elite mesmer class.

Why they idealist group don’t like chrono elite spec?

Usually, for the reason you told: They want to dps.as.an.ele.with.chrono and they hate the support role that the chrono elite specialization give us.

k, let’s write it again: dps.as.an.ele.with.chrono

Here is where the logic failure start to show off.

A logic man would ask you… Since chrono is a “support” specialization and since you want to dps, why do you play a chrono and not an ele, or maybe a thief?

For example, when i want to fill the dps role i usually reroll thief rather than complain about chrono… But it hardly happens, because i’m really happy about the chrono state in pve and i enjoy my buffing role with it, in both raid and istance.

You know, if this would be a standard mmo it would sound like “why i cannot dps with my healer? dev has to totally change my healer class mechanics to make it dps because i don’t like to heal and i want to dps with my healer class!”.

It sound wierd right?

But somehow gw2 is different, we had manifesto here, and it spoke of no roles, and mesmer has always been a really particular class, so i can understand your will of playing it regardless all and your complaining about being forced on a support role.

I’m not joking, i understand your desire to play mesmer as a dps.

But still, there’s an heavy logic failure here too.

Chrono is the first specialization class added to mesmer and anet said they will add other ones

So if we start from this statement, the logic solution to your will.to.dps.as.a.mesmer and my.having.fun.supporting.with.a.mesmer should be:

The next specialization added to mesmer should be a pure dps specialization role, so than people will be able to chose between goin support (chrono) or going dps (the new specialization) and we got the improvement to have 2 viable roles (and build) rather than the one we have now, making everyone happy

Remember that it was planned on the addition of new specializations that you won’t be able to build in 2 different specialization at same time, you will go chrono OR you will go the next spec.

When you judge the chronomancer specialization you have to use this perspective.

If anet is goin to add new specialization, and you won’t be able to spec in 2 at the same time, then the specializations of the single class have to fill different roles to improve build diversetity.

Example: chrono —> support, next mesmer elite spec --> dps
druid —> support\heal, next ranger elite spec --> dps
Daredevil —> dps\evade, next thief elite spec --> support

and so on…

Here is were logic brings.

Where does your request bring?

It brings where “i don’t like chrono buff role, i don’t want to wait next spec (or i don’t believe anet will never add another spec) so i ask to totally revert chrono from support to a dps role NOW, so i’m happy”.

gg! and what about other people enjoying chrono for what it is rather than for what you’d want it to be?

That’s not balance, that’s personal taste, and, as a personal taste you hit against other people personal tastes like me and everyone else who actually ENJOY the support role of chrono.

And here we go, if anet would even listen you and totally rework the chrono elite to be a dps elite from a support elite then the next elite they add will have to be a support elite to improve build diversity (obviusely, since having 2 dps elite bring to have just 1 viable build, the one who does more dmg).

So why to accomplish your taste anet should rework a support role to a dps role and then should create another support role while they can just add a new dps role on next elite specialization?

You know, in this way, where the bigger part of people asking for cs remove asking come from pvp, the smallest community of the game, joining them deal to make yourself to be the minority of the minority.

Why do that when you can just ask for the next spec to be a pure dps role without touching chrono? If you’d ask that you would have every single chrono, me too, on your side, because it’s a legit request.

Instead killing chrono support role isnt.

Everything sounds good except you forgot one key part. That healer or support role can respec for dps. Since we went into the trinity department what’s stopping that priest to become shadow and dps? Being pigeonholed into only support is really stale. Ultimately your right. Switch classes or play a different game. Maybe we as a community are asking all the wrong questions. If this isn’t the game for you then find something else.

Vicky.4563:

Zenith.7301:

No. PvE has suffered enough at the hands of PvP.

I think you mean PvP has suffered enough at the hands of PvE. There is nothing challenging in PvE that requires fine tuned balance.

So pvp is finely tuned balance. Should tell that to some posters.

StickerHappy.8052:

denis.9487:

StickerHappy.8052:

denis.9487:

You understand those conditions are only applied when you get hit with shatters. You can kill clones dodge pop your own evades. That trait lets Mesmer have more clones in order not to be tied to the dueling line.

Killing clones is not even an option anymore. SoI SoI cough cough*

Even if it was, this is a very hard thing to do in a real match. Very hard..

If this isnt a viable plan then why remove the on death traits?? I mean sure actually targeting a clone might be annoying but plenty of aoe and cleave. And really saying sol has any bearing is grasping at straws. Sure the clones went from 1 ply tissue to 2 ply.

Uhmm because we can trigger on death traits even if they don’t kill our clones?

SoI and Mercernary amy?

Anyway, 1v1 this could be a feasible counter to mesmer, teamfight? Hard.

The more people the more cleave and aoe. Not really that difficult. Why it is difficult to land any more than you and a clone shatter normally. Those fights on points destroy our resources.

StickerHappy.8052:

denis.9487:

You understand those conditions are only applied when you get hit with shatters. You can kill clones dodge pop your own evades. That trait lets Mesmer have more clones in order not to be tied to the dueling line.

Killing clones is not even an option anymore. SoI SoI cough cough*

Even if it was, this is a very hard thing to do in a real match. Very hard..

If this isnt a viable plan then why remove the on death traits?? I mean sure actually targeting a clone might be annoying but plenty of aoe and cleave. And really saying sol has any bearing is grasping at straws. Sure the clones went from 1 ply tissue to 2 ply.

You understand those conditions are only applied when you get hit with shatters. You can kill clones dodge pop your own evades. That trait lets Mesmer have more clones in order not to be tied to the dueling line.

But solid build. Forgot to add that. I also have using scepter. A power chrono shatter using gs scepter/torch. Fun times.

Well imo roaming is all about self reliance. So a condition cleanse is worth it. Specially since wvw is very chaotic. Never know what’s coming to engage you.

Sadly nothing new here. Azukas is right everyone else is wrong. He is using facts we are using facts. Just a giant kitten. At this point we should move on. My final thoughts. Actually this should be renamed Jerry springer post.

Azukas.1426:

AtomsOrSystems.9420:

Azukas.1426:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/PU-condi-mez/first#post5384202

Ok been away for awhile just kinda doing stuff IRL. Now while I was gone I found this thread where people were actually defending PU condi mesmers in WvW.

Wait WHAT no sane person who really cares about balance is going to defend PU condi mesmer!! Well I then notice those same names defending PU condi are the EXACT same ppl defending Condi Shatter here.

Thanks and let’s continue the cheering for how great we mesmers have it!!!

1) You’re comparing WvW 9 months ago to sPvP now. Unless you’re really going to make an argument that PU Condi was ever anything other than a cheesy noob-stomper in sPvP. At best.

2) PU Condi was good at two things: Winning 1v1s (if the opponent was foolish enough to not just leave), and escaping outnumbered fights. It ruled WvW roaming, except for being slower than sin, but it didn’t actually change the balance of WvW that much, since solo roaming… I mean, come on.

3) If you were losing matches to PU Condi in sPvP, that’s just an indication that you’re a bad sPvPer. It was an excellent duelist that couldn’t effectively hold a point, couldn’t meaningfully contribute to teamfights. It could stomp people who didn’t know how to dodge or cleanse, that’s about it. If that was you, that… explains a lot of your current angst.

4) Maybe it’s the same people, because they’re the people who know something about this profession. Just a thought.

5) “how great we mesmers have it” — You really spend a lot of time emphasizing how you’re totally, really, a real-life mesmer main. I mean, I have no reason to disbelieve you but… If someone can’t go an hour without spontaneously declaring “I’m human,” I start wondering if maybe they’re a semi-sentient colony of spiders wearing a fleshsuit, you know?

I think you missed the point of my post. My point is the same people defending that build are the same ones who are defending this build, and they are the EXACT same people who defended Chronobunker.

See the pattern?

Heck one of them even tries to use PvE balance to argue for leaving mesmers alone ROFLMAO.

Again we all owe Anet an apology and should be embarrassed for the behavior on this sub forum.

The pattern yes. Enough QQ and it causes nerfs for any class not just ours. The problem is your attitude. Chronobunker could have been shaved. But it is not my game nor yours to cry foul or accept the nerfs(your position). The issue is we are just players. Ultimately Anet sees the direction not us. Why wouldn’t the same people that post in these forums have an idea other than yours or Anet.
Yes sticker we know who frostball is. And yea even they could be wrong. But again they like us are players.

StickerHappy.8052:

AtomsOrSystems.9420:

StickerHappy.8052:

AtomsOrSystems.9420:

StickerHappy.8052:

Hate to burst the bubble but Azukas is mostly on point with his stuff.

I kind of feel like I need to deny this just on principle. For a more nuanced take on what Azukas is really, really not on point, the replies in this thread (and others) do a better job than I could in this post.

StickerHappy.8052:

Mesmers are the best 1v1 class in the game atm. This is coming from me who dueled countless mesmers, mesmer is my hardest matchup even on my ranger. Mesmers are not mainly gotten for Moa and port, its part of it but 1v1 ability is more of the deal breaker here.

Bull. But I do think you’ve hit on an important, maybe the important, point here. Mesmers are good at 1v1. They always have been; they were designed to be. We have an entire traitline called “Dueling,” for chrissake. People don’t like losing 1v1s; so when they do, they rage, they call the class that beat them OP. It’s happened to warriors. It’s happened to thieves. And it’s happened, over and over again, to Mesmers.

However, sPvP (and WvW, for that matter) isn’t based around 1v1 duels. You can sit on home or far the whole match, win every 1v1, and still lose the match because you can’t/don’t contribute jack to the teamfight. Team contribution is wildly more important; Mesmers aren’t bought because they can win 1v1, they’re brought because they can portal their team, and they can unbalance teamfights with Moa.

Saying Mesmer is OP because it can win 1v1s is like the people who said Mesmer was OP because they couldn’t kill it in WvW roaming; it betrays a frightening lack of knowledge of what wins (or loses) the game overall.

1v1s happen alllll the time in a competitive match.

Moa Port? yes these two are factors, but what about the metas that we didnt have mesmers?

Moa and Port existed since the launch of the game.

If you read what I wrote, I said they are also picked for Moa and Portal.

For the record when did say mesmer is OP?

1v1s happen all the time, but they also don’t decide the match. Moa has been substantially strengthened by the addition of CS; whether it’s OP (or it’s not), that increased use of it has correspondingly increased all the whining on the forums about it. Before, it was just a huge-CD elite that people took because they preferred it to MI, and what the hell else were they going to take?

And yes, portal has always been in the game. And it’s always been the one skill that gave Mesmers any use in PvP, even when everything else about the profession stunk to high heaven. Then, as now, mesmers were on teams almost entirely for portal; now, we just have a build beyond that one skill that doesn’t feel like banging our heads against concrete.

My apologies if you didn’t mean to say mesmers were OP; I thought that was pretty well implied by your agreement with Azukas.

Do you remember the mantra mesmer meta? only a few mesmers ran portal and moa.

No apologies needed, I just agreed with some his points, and I do not know if he is in fact saying mesmers are OP.

But in the pro league scene stuff he is right.

The mantra Mesmer was a meta?? It was a fluke that Anet quickly nerfed or stated was an accident. It also cost us an extra bounce on gs. That hasn’t been looked at.

Azukas.1426:

denis.9487:

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

Ross Biddle.2367:

brannigan.9831:

So you don’t think any nerfs are coming for Mesmers Ross? I think past history would tell you there are at least minor nerfs coming for every class that is currently meta including Mesmers.

We’re in hindsight now but… Past history has only told me I’ve barely any idea what Anet is going to do. Though with the quarterly updates I can now see a pattern between the time that class issues rise (as seen on the forums), the reworking and implementation of the changes, and the dropping of the quarterly patch. So everyone’s surprised at what changes we got this time around (though I still stand by the fact I don’t see the one meta chrono build as OP. It’s undeniably viable for sure). But if you want to see changes to CS, Moa, or CS’s play with elites etc, you’re going to have to wait for the next quarterly update, if at all.

Anyway, it was a real hoot seeing Azukas go down in flames XD

Who’s going down in flames lol

Mesmer is still meta and I was wrong about mesmer not having 2x moa nerfed.

We got buffed in the end of the patch but we need to keep an eye on thieves/warriors in the coming weeks. We haven’t seen the full effects of the changes yet and a hard counter might be out there which could remove us.

We’ll see

Literally your entire argument was ‘Mesmer is op and I’m right because Anet is going to nerf Mesmer which proved me right.’

Mesmer got no nerfs. By your own “logic” your entire basis for argument has fallen to pieces with absolutely no hope for recourse. Honestly you should be trying to save face at this point instead of digging deeper.

I said I’m not lobbying for nerfs this go around but I expect them. You did too. We ALL did. You were just in another thread telling ppl to kitten we dodged a bullet lol.

Even Helseth states mesmer is OP and moa needs to go.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4fmrnm/helseth_vs_anet_i_was_doing_my_usual_subgoal/

Wooden Potatoes made legendary using the mesmer build and he also said it was broken….yes the PvE king of the world lol

This sub forum is perhaps the most hilarious one on the entire site.

The only hilarious part is you. You ignored every post. You swore Mesmer was op. You agreed with Anet and used this to hack everyone down. Logic bounced off you and continues as you grasp at more people stating opinions and use them to defend your awful ideas.

LOL chronophantasm is OP mate.

When the best mesmers in the world are stating it, the best players in the world, and the entire community other than this sub forum…it’s OP.

Personally I’ve said get rid of Moa x2 and see where we lie.

I have not ignored ANY post and have addressed just about every post to me in this thread. I’ve used logic, fact, examples, and history to present my side. All i get in return is homerism for the mesmer class w/out any objectivity besides we are just Moa/Portal bots. Forget the fact you need to be a heck of a lot more than a Moa/Portal bot to kill ppl 1v3 in a pro level match lol.

Thanks for the post mate.

LOL chronophantasm is NOT OP mate.
Blah blah blah blah
Thanks for the post mate.
I can do that also.

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

Ross Biddle.2367:

brannigan.9831:

So you don’t think any nerfs are coming for Mesmers Ross? I think past history would tell you there are at least minor nerfs coming for every class that is currently meta including Mesmers.

We’re in hindsight now but… Past history has only told me I’ve barely any idea what Anet is going to do. Though with the quarterly updates I can now see a pattern between the time that class issues rise (as seen on the forums), the reworking and implementation of the changes, and the dropping of the quarterly patch. So everyone’s surprised at what changes we got this time around (though I still stand by the fact I don’t see the one meta chrono build as OP. It’s undeniably viable for sure). But if you want to see changes to CS, Moa, or CS’s play with elites etc, you’re going to have to wait for the next quarterly update, if at all.

Anyway, it was a real hoot seeing Azukas go down in flames XD

Who’s going down in flames lol

Mesmer is still meta and I was wrong about mesmer not having 2x moa nerfed.

We got buffed in the end of the patch but we need to keep an eye on thieves/warriors in the coming weeks. We haven’t seen the full effects of the changes yet and a hard counter might be out there which could remove us.

We’ll see

Literally your entire argument was ‘Mesmer is op and I’m right because Anet is going to nerf Mesmer which proved me right.’

Mesmer got no nerfs. By your own “logic” your entire basis for argument has fallen to pieces with absolutely no hope for recourse. Honestly you should be trying to save face at this point instead of digging deeper.

I said I’m not lobbying for nerfs this go around but I expect them. You did too. We ALL did. You were just in another thread telling ppl to kitten we dodged a bullet lol.

Even Helseth states mesmer is OP and moa needs to go.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4fmrnm/helseth_vs_anet_i_was_doing_my_usual_subgoal/

Wooden Potatoes made legendary using the mesmer build and he also said it was broken….yes the PvE king of the world lol

This sub forum is perhaps the most hilarious one on the entire site.

The only hilarious part is you. You ignored every post. You swore Mesmer was op. You agreed with Anet and used this to hack everyone down. Logic bounced off you and continues as you grasp at more people stating opinions and use them to defend your awful ideas.

Azukas.1426:

Still reading/processing patch

Problem we need to look at is other classes, sigil, and amulet buffs.

Overall we look good and I’m surprised they left cs and moa alone. I think the entire game is shocked.

Is this April 1st?? Strangest thread topic ever. Would not listen then suggest the same skills we have been trying to make you see. Glad it’s over.

apharma.3741:

Well some of this is what I said a while ago on the forums for what I was hoping for, flow of time becoming 1s and well reductions so I guess I can be happy about that.

I like the cast/after cast reductions and I guess reflects were making ANet worried about non mesmers having clones so it’s nice to have a better sceptre auto.

I know mesmer is a huge boost to party DPS and I fully appreciate what you’re saying Pyro but I would love to play mesmer in a competitive dps role without the limitations of phantasms.

Heres hoping ANet are listening and are looking at classes, what works, what doesn’t work and rebalancing mechanics not just for mesmer but all classes.

Anyway it’s a good patch and something we needed not just in terms of class balance but the wider game.

Maybe the next specialization could be a non clone/phantasm role.

Zelda.6325:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Zelda.6325:

I don’t see how this could be called good personally. Condi mesmer will be stupidly op in PvP now and shatter mesmer obviously still bad.

The only problem with mes last season is nobody brought the right class to shut down the mes meta build.

Stupidly OP? Whatever.

What do you mean “whatever”.

Whatever. Slang for what you said or (wrote in this case) has no merit. I tend to agree with ross. Our condition build was nerfed not buffed post hot. L2p issue.

Azukas.1426:

LOL what’s funny is in that show where the pro players even stated that mesmer is the best 1v1 class in the game y’all ignore that. LOL

The only place where no one seems to know this is here on this sub forum, and moa + portal isn’t the only reason lol. This is why we all need to apologize to anet.

I’ll start:

I’m sorry Arenanet for jumping the gun and raging over the mesmer nerfs last patch. I know now that I was being a child, and in the long run mesmer is better off now then it ever was. Thank You.

C’mon everyone follow suit.

So before the class stacking rule we saw all the Mesmer train teams dominating. Those double triple quad Mesmer teams rocked. Thank god anet instituted that class stacking rule.

Azukas.1426:

Hlord.5940:

Azukas.1426:

denis.9487:

Azukas.1426:

denis.9487:

Azukas.1426:

denis.9487:

Azukas.1426:

denis.9487:

Azukas.1426:

Obtena.7952:

Curunen.8729:

I can see you get a kick out of being a martyr, but this is getting long in the tooth now.

What’s the point in making a thread if you’re not open for discussion? I think it’s best to leave it be and accept you won’t convince the other 99% of the population that are not at the top of pro league, and neither will they convince you. Just agree to disagree and leave it be.

This thread is no different than the one the OP made in the Rev forum.

“What I think is truth, no reason to discuss. Let’s talk about how to nerf Rev’s now. "

You can imagine the result … actually you’re seeing it here. There is no open discussion. The second anyone attempts to discuss, they are simply wrong and ignored. A very disingenuous approach to having a discussion with people.

Here’s the issue. No one counter argues with facts or examples but just wants people to take thier emotional opinions as facts. Sorry it doesn’t work that way when I’m using examples, facts, and pro league players input.

If you want to discuss things please come at me with something other than “I feel”

Fact. Mesmer was never really taken pre stacking. Sure some pros made it work but what about the rest of us?? Also if you look back these pros often said other classes could do it better. Post stacking. You cant have more than 1 of any class. By default the 5th is Mesmer because of 2 skills. Condition output insane?? Does it beat condition rev or necro? So yes pros use the Mesmer. Pre hot had small niche and again pros basically handicapped themselves because they loved the class. Post hot. Give Moa/portal to the warrior since according to the pros are out of the meta and guess what. Warrior would be the 5th.
We are poorly balanced. Removing those skills might even the playing field and show how far apart it really is. As it is people still complain about pu/clones/signet of illusions. It’s easy to hate something you don’t understand.

Fact mesmer was stacked in Season 1.

Since June 23rd 2015 Mesmer has been in a REALLY REALLY good place. 10 months of having the good life.

Now let’s see if you can answer me one question. If Mesmer is ONLY meta b/c of portal and moa how come, according to you all, mesmer wasn’t meta before when they had Moa and Portal? That’s all they needed according to everyone here so why weren’t they meta then?

Thanks for your reply and I look forward to another

The one answer is cs. Allowing 2 casts of the elite. That is an entire different post though. You also failed to acknowledge any of my points. Helseth himself the king has gone on record saying thief was better pre hot.

So thief was better pre June 23rd. We’re dealing with right now not the past.

Get out of the past because for like the past year we’ve been top dog.

So yes I’ve acknowledged all of your points and what besides dble moa stands out?

Ok by logic. Our condition build was nerfed not buffed after hot. It is only taken because of the stacking rule and the double down of our 2 key skills. We are not op by any means. We are just taken like the side of salad that comes with the steak.

I already stated I’m not so sure about mesmer only being meta because of no stacking. We saw a team run it in pros but the team was no where near as good as rank 55. Could of a better team played with a mesmer? I personally believe so and others agreed with me. Then you look at what pros are saying now and you get the idea more were going to run it.

Now don’t get me wrong because I truly believe revs have too much. That’s another class that needs to get beat with the hammer BUT they can’t touch mesmer 1v1 or 1vX.

I can work with that. 1 team used a Mesmer. Most were using double rev. 1 game is such a small sample size to make any assumptions. What I gathered is the hate being generated by cs and using it to double elites. The stacking rule surely cast light on other classes. Hence the Mesmer stepping in. We are meta currently because we have had the same 5v5 pvp stand in a circle to win since launch. Again another topic but by no means an indication Mesmer is op.

Mesmer condi specs have always been OP and now they’ve gone and made one tournament viable.

Yes the 1 team in the finals is a bad sample size but seeing what we see now I believe condi shatter beats out 2nd rev.

I’m not here championing nerfs either. I’m just here saying I told you so and let’s rejoice in the greatness of mesmer.

Now I do expect nerfs tomorrow and I just pray the rest of the OP classes get it too.

1 team in final is a bad sample size, agree on that, any good experiment require an ample sample but you just skip the whole why no one pick mesmer

People picking up portal and moa because they are the last thing we have not because they are other option

PS
>not here championing nerf
>expect nerfs tomorrow

wut?

I’m not asking for nerfs here like I did to chrono bunker, but I do expect nerfs because condi shatter is so strong. It’s the best 1v1 class and decides team fight all the while keeping home safe or 1 enemy player honest at far.

You wanted facts. Saying a class is better 1v1 again has a lot to do with the person sitting behind the desk. Again imo and hate to say this its a l2p. The facts echoed in your material mostly had the “pros” hating cs on elite use.

Azukas.1426:

denis.9487:

Azukas.1426:

denis.9487:

Azukas.1426:

denis.9487:

Azukas.1426:

Obtena.7952:

Curunen.8729:

I can see you get a kick out of being a martyr, but this is getting long in the tooth now.

What’s the point in making a thread if you’re not open for discussion? I think it’s best to leave it be and accept you won’t convince the other 99% of the population that are not at the top of pro league, and neither will they convince you. Just agree to disagree and leave it be.

This thread is no different than the one the OP made in the Rev forum.

“What I think is truth, no reason to discuss. Let’s talk about how to nerf Rev’s now. "

You can imagine the result … actually you’re seeing it here. There is no open discussion. The second anyone attempts to discuss, they are simply wrong and ignored. A very disingenuous approach to having a discussion with people.

Here’s the issue. No one counter argues with facts or examples but just wants people to take thier emotional opinions as facts. Sorry it doesn’t work that way when I’m using examples, facts, and pro league players input.

If you want to discuss things please come at me with something other than “I feel”

Fact. Mesmer was never really taken pre stacking. Sure some pros made it work but what about the rest of us?? Also if you look back these pros often said other classes could do it better. Post stacking. You cant have more than 1 of any class. By default the 5th is Mesmer because of 2 skills. Condition output insane?? Does it beat condition rev or necro? So yes pros use the Mesmer. Pre hot had small niche and again pros basically handicapped themselves because they loved the class. Post hot. Give Moa/portal to the warrior since according to the pros are out of the meta and guess what. Warrior would be the 5th.
We are poorly balanced. Removing those skills might even the playing field and show how far apart it really is. As it is people still complain about pu/clones/signet of illusions. It’s easy to hate something you don’t understand.

Fact mesmer was stacked in Season 1.

Since June 23rd 2015 Mesmer has been in a REALLY REALLY good place. 10 months of having the good life.

Now let’s see if you can answer me one question. If Mesmer is ONLY meta b/c of portal and moa how come, according to you all, mesmer wasn’t meta before when they had Moa and Portal? That’s all they needed according to everyone here so why weren’t they meta then?

Thanks for your reply and I look forward to another

The one answer is cs. Allowing 2 casts of the elite. That is an entire different post though. You also failed to acknowledge any of my points. Helseth himself the king has gone on record saying thief was better pre hot.

So thief was better pre June 23rd. We’re dealing with right now not the past.

Get out of the past because for like the past year we’ve been top dog.

So yes I’ve acknowledged all of your points and what besides dble moa stands out?

Ok by logic. Our condition build was nerfed not buffed after hot. It is only taken because of the stacking rule and the double down of our 2 key skills. We are not op by any means. We are just taken like the side of salad that comes with the steak.

I already stated I’m not so sure about mesmer only being meta because of no stacking. We saw a team run it in pros but the team was no where near as good as rank 55. Could of a better team played with a mesmer? I personally believe so and others agreed with me. Then you look at what pros are saying now and you get the idea more were going to run it.

Now don’t get me wrong because I truly believe revs have too much. That’s another class that needs to get beat with the hammer BUT they can’t touch mesmer 1v1 or 1vX.

I can work with that. 1 team used a Mesmer. Most were using double rev. 1 game is such a small sample size to make any assumptions. What I gathered is the hate being generated by cs and using it to double elites. The stacking rule surely cast light on other classes. Hence the Mesmer stepping in. We are meta currently because we have had the same 5v5 pvp stand in a circle to win since launch. Again another topic but by no means an indication Mesmer is op.

Azukas.1426:

denis.9487:

Azukas.1426:

denis.9487:

Azukas.1426:

Obtena.7952:

Curunen.8729:

I can see you get a kick out of being a martyr, but this is getting long in the tooth now.

What’s the point in making a thread if you’re not open for discussion? I think it’s best to leave it be and accept you won’t convince the other 99% of the population that are not at the top of pro league, and neither will they convince you. Just agree to disagree and leave it be.

This thread is no different than the one the OP made in the Rev forum.

“What I think is truth, no reason to discuss. Let’s talk about how to nerf Rev’s now. "

You can imagine the result … actually you’re seeing it here. There is no open discussion. The second anyone attempts to discuss, they are simply wrong and ignored. A very disingenuous approach to having a discussion with people.

Here’s the issue. No one counter argues with facts or examples but just wants people to take thier emotional opinions as facts. Sorry it doesn’t work that way when I’m using examples, facts, and pro league players input.

If you want to discuss things please come at me with something other than “I feel”

Fact. Mesmer was never really taken pre stacking. Sure some pros made it work but what about the rest of us?? Also if you look back these pros often said other classes could do it better. Post stacking. You cant have more than 1 of any class. By default the 5th is Mesmer because of 2 skills. Condition output insane?? Does it beat condition rev or necro? So yes pros use the Mesmer. Pre hot had small niche and again pros basically handicapped themselves because they loved the class. Post hot. Give Moa/portal to the warrior since according to the pros are out of the meta and guess what. Warrior would be the 5th.
We are poorly balanced. Removing those skills might even the playing field and show how far apart it really is. As it is people still complain about pu/clones/signet of illusions. It’s easy to hate something you don’t understand.

Fact mesmer was stacked in Season 1.

Since June 23rd 2015 Mesmer has been in a REALLY REALLY good place. 10 months of having the good life.

Now let’s see if you can answer me one question. If Mesmer is ONLY meta b/c of portal and moa how come, according to you all, mesmer wasn’t meta before when they had Moa and Portal? That’s all they needed according to everyone here so why weren’t they meta then?

Thanks for your reply and I look forward to another

The one answer is cs. Allowing 2 casts of the elite. That is an entire different post though. You also failed to acknowledge any of my points. Helseth himself the king has gone on record saying thief was better pre hot.

So thief was better pre June 23rd. We’re dealing with right now not the past.

Get out of the past because for like the past year we’ve been top dog.

So yes I’ve acknowledged all of your points and what besides dble moa stands out?

Ok by logic. Our condition build was nerfed not buffed after hot. It is only taken because of the stacking rule and the double down of our 2 key skills. We are not op by any means. We are just taken like the side of salad that comes with the steak.

Lol just wait till tomorrow. No matter what happens he will/would have predicted and agreed with. Nigh omnipotent

Azukas.1426:

denis.9487:

Azukas.1426:

Obtena.7952:

Curunen.8729:

I can see you get a kick out of being a martyr, but this is getting long in the tooth now.

What’s the point in making a thread if you’re not open for discussion? I think it’s best to leave it be and accept you won’t convince the other 99% of the population that are not at the top of pro league, and neither will they convince you. Just agree to disagree and leave it be.

This thread is no different than the one the OP made in the Rev forum.

“What I think is truth, no reason to discuss. Let’s talk about how to nerf Rev’s now. "

You can imagine the result … actually you’re seeing it here. There is no open discussion. The second anyone attempts to discuss, they are simply wrong and ignored. A very disingenuous approach to having a discussion with people.

Here’s the issue. No one counter argues with facts or examples but just wants people to take thier emotional opinions as facts. Sorry it doesn’t work that way when I’m using examples, facts, and pro league players input.

If you want to discuss things please come at me with something other than “I feel”

Fact. Mesmer was never really taken pre stacking. Sure some pros made it work but what about the rest of us?? Also if you look back these pros often said other classes could do it better. Post stacking. You cant have more than 1 of any class. By default the 5th is Mesmer because of 2 skills. Condition output insane?? Does it beat condition rev or necro? So yes pros use the Mesmer. Pre hot had small niche and again pros basically handicapped themselves because they loved the class. Post hot. Give Moa/portal to the warrior since according to the pros are out of the meta and guess what. Warrior would be the 5th.
We are poorly balanced. Removing those skills might even the playing field and show how far apart it really is. As it is people still complain about pu/clones/signet of illusions. It’s easy to hate something you don’t understand.

Fact mesmer was stacked in Season 1.

Since June 23rd 2015 Mesmer has been in a REALLY REALLY good place. 10 months of having the good life.

Now let’s see if you can answer me one question. If Mesmer is ONLY meta b/c of portal and moa how come, according to you all, mesmer wasn’t meta before when they had Moa and Portal? That’s all they needed according to everyone here so why weren’t they meta then?

Thanks for your reply and I look forward to another

The one answer is cs. Allowing 2 casts of the elite. That is an entire different post though. You also failed to acknowledge any of my points. Helseth himself the king has gone on record saying thief was better pre hot.

Azukas.1426:

Obtena.7952:

Curunen.8729:

I can see you get a kick out of being a martyr, but this is getting long in the tooth now.

What’s the point in making a thread if you’re not open for discussion? I think it’s best to leave it be and accept you won’t convince the other 99% of the population that are not at the top of pro league, and neither will they convince you. Just agree to disagree and leave it be.

This thread is no different than the one the OP made in the Rev forum.

“What I think is truth, no reason to discuss. Let’s talk about how to nerf Rev’s now. "

You can imagine the result … actually you’re seeing it here. There is no open discussion. The second anyone attempts to discuss, they are simply wrong and ignored. A very disingenuous approach to having a discussion with people.

Here’s the issue. No one counter argues with facts or examples but just wants people to take thier emotional opinions as facts. Sorry it doesn’t work that way when I’m using examples, facts, and pro league players input.

If you want to discuss things please come at me with something other than “I feel”

Fact. Bunker meta was boring. I agree with devs, that makes me omnipotent. Anything anyone says is wrong.
Just maybe they could have surgically removed key elements instead of butchering. But since I agree with someone I become right and no one else is right, this is your position.

Azukas.1426:

Obtena.7952:

Curunen.8729:

I can see you get a kick out of being a martyr, but this is getting long in the tooth now.

What’s the point in making a thread if you’re not open for discussion? I think it’s best to leave it be and accept you won’t convince the other 99% of the population that are not at the top of pro league, and neither will they convince you. Just agree to disagree and leave it be.

This thread is no different than the one the OP made in the Rev forum.

“What I think is truth, no reason to discuss. Let’s talk about how to nerf Rev’s now. "

You can imagine the result … actually you’re seeing it here. There is no open discussion. The second anyone attempts to discuss, they are simply wrong and ignored. A very disingenuous approach to having a discussion with people.

Here’s the issue. No one counter argues with facts or examples but just wants people to take thier emotional opinions as facts. Sorry it doesn’t work that way when I’m using examples, facts, and pro league players input.

If you want to discuss things please come at me with something other than “I feel”

Fact. Mesmer was never really taken pre stacking. Sure some pros made it work but what about the rest of us?? Also if you look back these pros often said other classes could do it better. Post stacking. You cant have more than 1 of any class. By default the 5th is Mesmer because of 2 skills. Condition output insane?? Does it beat condition rev or necro? So yes pros use the Mesmer. Pre hot had small niche and again pros basically handicapped themselves because they loved the class. Post hot. Give Moa/portal to the warrior since according to the pros are out of the meta and guess what. Warrior would be the 5th.
We are poorly balanced. Removing those skills might even the playing field and show how far apart it really is. As it is people still complain about pu/clones/signet of illusions. It’s easy to hate something you don’t understand.

AlphaReborn.1567:

Hey I really appreciate the long post, I read the whole thing and tried to merge your advice with what I was kinda looking to do. How does the following look (trying for that hybrid damage build). 2050 power with bloodlust stacks, 1800 condi damage with corruption stacks, 2400 toughness and 22.3k health. Not as much defense as I’d like but it should suffice with the massive amount of clones being spit out everywhere soaking up some damage. Let me know what you think, thanks!

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAW8encfCdqhlpBeoBMrhlnj6sACgDreQP0FFdxynHD-TVyCQBA4CAIk9HKwBBwHq/YATcoQ3gRUiNhnAoE8iKPEDgfA-w

With stacking sigils it’s one or the other. Whatever sigil you use then can use food/consumables to raise the other stat.

Azukas.1426:

We’ve been on the topic of how beast our class is since page 1.

People complaining about PvE just happened

If by beast you meant a mouse. Us mice er mesmers remove the thorn from the lions paw. So I guess we are valuable.

dubstax.9102:

Fay.2357:

dubstax.9102:

denis.9487:

dubstax.9102:

Because there are already perma stealth roaming groups buzzing around World vs. World and you want more stealth? Perhaps this is a troll?

Just stating perma stealth like its a thing is the troll.

It’s not a troll. I’ve seen it in action. So have others. Perma stealth or “near” perma stealth if it makes you feel better. The fact is that stealth is fine overall and I don’t see where there needs to be more avenues for it or ways for longer duration of it.

Have you tried killing the permanently revealed stealth gyro, or just loading up aoe on top of it? I’ve heard that proper application of intelligent thought is a pretty solid counter to “permastealth” in WvW.

As I said… stealth is fine. I don’t see where it’s a problem for mesmers or members of a group which have a mesmer as part of their composition. Mesmers are fantastic support as they are now. Snarky comments really aren’t going to change that fact. The addition of longer stealth duration just increases the popularity of brain dead cheese builds which depend heavily on one mechanic.

So poster has an idea you call him a troll. Then we correct the snarky comment but now we are guilty of being snarky. Perma snarky hand in hand with perma stealth.

dubstax.9102:

Because there are already perma stealth roaming groups buzzing around World vs. World and you want more stealth? Perhaps this is a troll?

Just stating perma stealth like its a thing is the troll.

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

4 mesmers killed a map blob and the entire time the commentary just highlights how absurd it all is

Yeah, cause the map blob decided to run back and forth through a bunch of glamours while spamming skills and never use a single group cleanse.

I’m not entirely sure what’s difficult to understand about this. 4 mesmers killed a bunch of garbage players with an easy to avoid mechanic because all of those players were absolute garbage. It wasn’t overpowered, it was just strong against stupid people.

Didn’t notice the portals huh?

Either way you can’t defend that with a straight face….

So again by your own definition of logic. Just fix the issue with portal not gut, forget gut how about obliterate a whole build. We have been trying desperately for you to see this. Yet this logic has bounced off you. Sort of like pre school. I’m rubber your glue whatever you say bounces of me and sticks to you.