You were correct. It is clearly a market manipulation.
There were no new sinks for it and there is steady supply from dry top, although not as strong as it once was. The only real reason for 7 million to disappear is because a whale bought an alt account a couple months ago when the price started rising and is using it to store them in the TP pick up tab.
It has been slow going for the last couple months and it’s rise. I have been watching it because when they dropped to 20c i bought a bunch and seeded sell orders from 60c to 2s to keep tabs on it.
or to increase the amount of silk returned from salvaging goods,
According to salvage research I have found this is, in fact, a problem. From what has been observed the light armor pieces salvage to less materials than their medium or heavy counterparts.
I agree
Deldrimor Steel Ingot
Elonian Leather Square
Spiritwood Plank
should be made more expensive, they are too cheap at the moment.
I agree, especially the leather since it should have parity with cloth based on how you get it, but the uses are nowhere near what cloth has which is the problem with leather.
Incorrect. Leather prices will increase while cloth prices decrease. They’ll eventually balance out somewhere between where leather and cloth prices are now.
If you suggest that the increased price of leather is going to be proportional to the price drop of cloth, that’s where you are wrong.
That’s not at all what I said.
Then what do you guesstimate will be the final prices for each? If you are so confident that making leather insignias is a better idea than increasing cloth scrap supply, then what will be the final prices?
My guestimate would be that the final price for an insignia will be well below the price Anet intended, therefore it wont happen.
Again, people in this thread throw around various solutions for different problems.
There are 3 main perceived problems with silk/damask:
- Damask is too expensive because the silk requirements are too high
- Damask is too expensive compared to the other t7 mats
- Light armor users are at a financial (and timegate) disadvantage to heavy and light users
The first problem is simply a matter of opinion. Of course, people who want to craft damask, complain about the silk requirements and costs overall but ascended crafting was introduced as a long term goal. Apart from the timegating, the high gold cost are the biggest reason why it is a long term goal for most players.
You shouldnt ask yourself, if you think damask is too expensive, you should ask if Anet wants damask (and therefore ascended overall) to be cheaper. And if Anet wants it to be cheaper, why do you think they dont have ways, tried and tested, to do so?
They successfully added new permanent and temporary faucets for cloth during season 2 to shave off nearly 50% of the value of silk and nearly 20% off the value of damask and since the end of season 2 both prices are incredibly stable.
If they wanted to decrease the value further, they know how. They are not doing it, hence, they are fine with its current price range.Problem 2 is just a perceived problem, that materials of the same tier should have the same value. But thats not mandatory to have a balanced economy. The same goes for the common misconception that the value of a material should rise with its tier (silk more expensive than gossamer). There is no economic reason why this has to be the case.
The third problem can actually be seen as a problem. There are several ways to address the problem of high costs for light armor compared to medium and heavy. Devaluing damask drastically is not one of them, as it would only decrease price difference between all three sets by lowering the overall price of all three sets. It wouldnt solve the problem, the imbalance in timegates and gold would still be there but would have an unintended side effect (considerably cheaper ascended armor over all).
The only way to address this imbalance is to change recipes that require damask and substitute some of its demand with demand for leather.
But Anet has been very reluctant to change recipes in the past and only has done so on a handful of occassions during the last 3 years. So I wouldnt hold my breath for it.
I would guess cloth would only retain about 30-40% of its value at best if you could make insignias out of leather. I think a gentle way of nudging the damask requirement would be for tailor components to use a few more pieces of elonian and a few less damask.
(edited by eithinan.9841)
i dont think the person who started this thread was in the old one.
Considering how tenacious some of the posters here have been, I wouldn’t be surprised if this is a $10 alt acct. I’m also pretty sure at lest 2 posters in the other thread were the same person.
There is no gvg game mode and there wont be any support for it ever.
Vertical stat progression is against what anet has outlined.
Which they already somewhat have. Mainly with Masterwork/Rare/Exotic, then adding in ascended gear with a mix of infusions to add limitations to high end fracs.
I never understood Anets mindset on somethings. They seem against things simply because “that other game” does it, or its mainstream in MMOs.
They are game dev hipsters.
Vertical stat progression is a stupid treadmill that “other mmo’s” with a monthly sub need to keep people paying. By far gw2 is superior in this respect.
Some of the ascended trinkets have 4 stats. Maybe they will add those combos into armour and weapons at some point
Not exactly.
Ascended with 4 stats is the equivalent of an exotic trinket with Zerker stats (ruby) + Valk jewel (beryl) for example, what OP wants is the full set bonus + extra stat
Vertical stat progression is against what anet has outlined.
This thread addresses a symptom, not the core issue. To “fix” the zerker meta issue it isnt about flip flopping a few numbers.
To be honest the people who have issues with the zerker meta actually have issues with the game mechanics of gw2.
I’m almost certain if they were indeed bots those were stolen accounts. The leader would move 1-2sec later 2nd would move another 1-2sec 3rd would move, ect. Staying the same distance from each other while “parked”.
Sounds like someone with multiple clients running and swapping between them. Running a “multibox” setup would have them moving at the same time. There is really nothing that says to me that this is a bunch of stolen accounts either. $10 sale a month ago. Someone can easily have a couple accounts running with 3rd party software and as long as they follow the “1 click = 1 action” rule they are within the rules set out. Somewhere a dev addressed the “multiple accounts running on the same computer” issue.
Last post was 9 hours ago from my post. That is somewhere between 9:30pm-12:30AM Thursday night for the devs local time I believe. It is also only 2 hours before your OP.
As I recall, when Ascended armor first came out crafting a bolt of silk cost Two silk scraps. At that time I had a ton of silk scraps in inventory and life was good.
Then one ominous day that will live in infamy, the sky darkened Tyria shook and all of a sudden a bolt of silk cost Three silk scraps. My silk supply subsequently vanished and to this day I can’t get keep any in my inventory.
Now maybe that was “as intended” but certainly not as “I” intended ;p
Your memory is faulty. The change from 2>3 scraps came before ascended armor.
That’s an understatement… and of course, at this point, they aren’t likely to fix their “oops.”
There still isn’t a convincing argument that this is in fact an “oops”
*goes and hides under the bridge.
Dont just sell the materials. Finished products can gain you more profit off your current supply. The silk should be used to make your daily damask to turn into insignias, the T5 mats should be made into rare items to sell for mystic forgers. The leather is a waste of space, list it at 1.2s and forget about it. Maybe some day they will balance it and there will be some value.
this is what I would do if I had that stock of supplies.
How is a drop in supply by nearly half in 5 months holding steady? I’m sure there are plenty of people like me who aren’t speculators or particularly tuned into the market who held onto a bunch of dyes from the wardrobe change (was that the last April patch?) For just this situation.
hi, I’m sitting on 4 stacks and the drop in supply is players buying out the buy orders and relisting them at a profit or hoarding them. There are very few items that can stack to 250 that are worth as much as unid dyes. For the last few months those people have also been seeding the sell orders so the price didnt spike until they felt they had solid control of the market.
With the reduced ways of getting them added to the flood of dyes people got back from dupes, it was just a matter of time before they climbed in price. It did take longer than I thought, but I think the dupe dye supplies everyone got are finally thinning out. I was lucky – at one time dyes were as low as about 5s and I spend a ridiculous amount of money opening dyes that I used on all my alts. In the veeeeeery long run, that was the best investment I ever made in this game.
I could have had 10-15 stacks if I had loaded up all my alts with dyes. I was buying them and forging them for my main way back when fine dyes were 15-20c but didn’t really load up the alts with the left overs.
I understand why people want more ways to get dyes, but I have waited a while for the demand to outstrip the easy supply. I figured that the gift of color would be the main driver rather than people opening them on a gamble. I would be perfectly fine with easier ways to get the dyes you want. Just don’t mess with the unidentified ones :p
I personally do like the idea of foraging giving dyes again. the price wall has raised again for the gift of color which I agree is the driving force for unid
The problem with chestfarming is the following: The players who do it are toxic, and sometimes worse than the PVP community. let me explain a bit of course, the players who do it get so toxic towards the players actually doing the breach. They come into a map that was an event map, and then chase out all the players who where there doing breach. Ive had it happen more than once. Been in maps that have been doing breach successfully all morning, all 5 bosses killed, all champions for VW killed, with a chest farm during the downtime.
Thats when a chest farming commander comes in, his zerg would run past the forts, scale them up, and then leave(This happens ALOT). The fort would fail, and people would leave. That is why there is hate towards chest farmers. You want money? go make your own map, stop coming into maps that are very clearly doing the events as they are meant to be done(4 commanders, 1 per fort, with people running the dolyaks back and forth, occasionally grabbing a chest when the forts arent in an event) And taking them over(By that i mean making people leave for other maps because you arent helping with the forts). That would end the toxicty towards the chest farmers.
I have seen this literally go both ways. I have seen chest maps that people start leaving from and a random person lucks into a 50% chest farm map. They start a taxi and then the people who got taxi’d into what was thought a event map, start complaining about the chest farm that had been going for the first 50%.
They say things like “when its 50% go find another map” and such
It is the same thing with EOTM and wxp ranks. Some people are legitimate platinum and some are karma train platinum. One of these is tarnished.
Grind is not repeating specific content, Grind is having content locked behind repeating specific content. Repeating specific content in this game is self imposed grind.
Carry on…
edit: notice the capitalization.
The other common argument is that it’s not grinding because you can pick from a variety of grinds. You can run Champ Trains, WvW, Dry Top, and/or Silverwastes. Sorry, but all that crap is the same to me: repetitive, mind numbing, and only fun for about 45 minutes. LIke the title of this thread says, “Grind is Grind.” Just because you have 4 different forms of grind to pick from doesn’t make it “not grind.”
BUT, it doesn’t fit into what the developers define grind as. I also agree with what Anet defines it as. The fact that you can do anything to get rewards that progress you towards any end game goal you set for your self makes it not a grind. If that is the case any activity you do in game is a grind, which is a stupid way of looking at it. Some activities are more rewarding than others so you can find more efficient ways to get to that end goal quicker, but that goes to the self imposed repeating of content.
It is all circular arguments here when there is no grind in this game, unless you consider playing the content as a grind. If that is the case find other content to play.
And don’t cry about there being a gold standard, I for one am grateful there is a solid currency that hasn’t been destroyed. There is nothing less realistic than a living breathing world without a solid currency. Good currency = better immersion.
Third, 5-8 hours per day is a lot of time spent in game.
Since people were more concerned about class balance I’ll repost the important thing in my post.
I noticed three things here. First is 50 heavy bags is kinda low for 5-8 hours of WvW play, maybe reroll Guardian or Necro. Second, don’t spend if you want to save. Third, 5-8 hours per day is a lot of time spent in game.
I would only really worry about that last thing.
Not everyone has access to the same loot tables
not sure why people can’t realize this fact. There’s a reason why people are reporting unlucky accounts and it’s not because they like to, go to any other game out there with individual loot and you’ll not see a single forums post about unlucky accounts.
This statement is false. See here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/I-have-a-question-about-the-economy/page/15#post4487484
So that’s what he meant by that statement? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
AHHHHHHHHH
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Give me a break. This calls into doubt everything Tig says when he is spewing anything game related. What in the world would be the benefit to Anet to have such a mechanic? Lose the tinfoil hat, take a step back and reevaluate.
…after/during 2nd VW boss. This happened 2 times to me today.
Maybe this thread should be shut down considering all the references to other games by name going on. I think that’s a violation of TOS?
Haha. You guys are getting trolled so hard. Just look at the OP’s post history. I’ll break it down for you:
- Gem store = Evil
- Expansions every year or less.
- I know game monetization better than all the professionals that work for Anet.
- Expansions, expansions, expansions..
- Gem store = evil and if I want what is in the gem store and wish to buy it for gold it it is grind.
- If I want it and have to do anything I don’t like to do to get it, it is grind.
That’s basically it. You can keep arguing with him all you want. The results will never change.
I’ll admit I just scanned over this thread but I’m familiar with the OP’s MO. I think mostly he just likes the attention.
And no, Devata I won’t reply to what you have to say regarding my post so don’t bother. I’m not a fan of listening to broken records.
Yeah I figured this out after reading through his first couple posts. I skipped the rest of them, the majority of the posts here. Considering how long this thread has become and how repetitive, skipping anything posted by him really lessens the grind of reading through it.
The thing that really matters is that he thinks having things locked behind specific content is a good thing and will post pages about it. Since I think that is how real grind happens I haven’t taken him seriously since.
Writing this is more fun then grinding.
I like how he calls himself out on trolling…
People keep forgetting that not everyone has the same access to loot in this game.
And this still hasn’t been explained.
I wish you could throw 2 pieces of ascended armor into the forge with a 250 stack of ectos and an eldritch scroll and have those stats available to be swapped out if Anet doesn’t plan on making legendary armor. If they do they shouldn’t do something like this.
That doesnt solve the rune issue.
/signed red downed bar was better. I would also prefer when someone goes fully downed and starts getting rezzed, the party bar would be blue/another color.
Here’s the end all solution for the argument of needing a new currency. Karma. It’s completely under-utilized and it needs to be used to directly purchase the items that are simply too expensive and growing in expense in the TP that are used for Ascended gear. Also people need to realize that not everything is equal in this game, some people do continue to experience problems getting any kind of meaningful loot right now! Whole accounts are cut off from it which adds to the frustration.
You seriously still believe in the unlucky accounts? I have watched you on the forums spouting this for over 2 years and no one that I play with has a luckier or unluckier account than any one else. Add to the fact that you have claimed multiple times to have quit————I don’t even know what to say anymore. TLDR: I want a tin foil hat in the gem store so I can mail it to this guy.
I am still trying to figure out what he meant by this.
People keep forgetting that not everyone has the same access to loot in this game.
When looking at this thread I would think some of “defenders” / supporters of Anet are the biggest threat for the game. They come in here, dismiss everything without any real arguments, leave again to come back and do exactly the same a day later. If you really like the game you should try to participate but just trolling (as that really, is what it is) in a way to try and disrupt and ongoing discussion can at best harm the game.
FTFY.
but if this is referring to me, I said what I have had to say. Nothing has been posted that contradicts what I have said that has any basis in reality, soooo, I am not going to repeat my self. I will simply participate in this whacked out discussion giving it the respect it deserves.
For the record, we do have a pretty decent RP community in GW2, and the game hasn’t been terribly unfriendly to us. It’s just not been especially supportive either.
LOL try being part of the GvG community. At least you got the beach in southsun…
But OT, exploiting dungeon paths and WvW keeps and such is one thing, but forbidding entrance into a fully furnished building or an uninstanced Salma district it another.
Waiting too much kills joy. Patience is nice, but like everything, its best in moderation.
This I agree with.
This is the definition of being Entitled.
/Thread, Have fun in your circle J
Goodbye to everybody thats leaving…..
……and good riddance.
I think its just a matter of jealousy, usually from people that havnt gotten X thing yet and rather than be happy for someone else they feel bitter and entitled;
This
just get a thick skin and try to understand that they’re not necesseraly insulting you,
Yeah just roll over and take it….or you can…
Have her ping the item to him untill he breaks and cries. Then laugh as you count your money. Also send him one copper to fix his life.
I like this idea too.
That doesn’t makes my point any less relevant. Sure it does, you just don’t want to acknowledge it
Trolling doesn’t make the situation any better, agree, the victim in this verbal assault will never be able to unread those cruel attacks it just reinforces the toxic attitudes of the farmers so they were a toxic part of the community already who have developed against people in full gear “kill stealing” and conditions people who didn’t have that attitude yet towards it; to put it simply you’re just vindicating the jerks and making more jerks in the process,The “jerks” in this scenario were the toxic farmers not the 2 people running by who are going to turn around and grief others like the OP – he and his gf didn’t grief anybodyand that’s going to be as much on your head as it is on theirs.I can only hope so, make the toxic players rage quit
You are justifying toxic players verbally assaulting someone and then calling the victim of this a “jerk”. What is wrong with you?
analogies and hypotheticals are used to test and evaluate conceptual models, but if you dont like them, i will avoid using them when talking to you specifically(if i remember).
anyhow
Accurate analogies yes, 99.9% of them on this forum misrepresent the subjects. The only one that I have seen in 2+ years here that was remotely accurate was the one about 50$ on the ground and the TP. Thanks for that but it doesn’t really matter because ill just [snip] itdungeon tokens meets anets definition of grind, but actually their definition is pretty poor, it doesnt consider the magnitude of repetitions, and it would mean that as long as you have two methods of doing something, it can never be a grind.
Actually they don’t meet the Anet definition because the lack of those tokens does not prevent you from participating in any content available, not…That said, anet still has a way out in this case, as you can buy dungeon runs with gold. So i guess even dungeon tokens wouldnt be considered grind by anet, as it has at least two methods of aquisition.
…because of this.But yeah, as i said, Anet says they want the game to be about the journey, and i think rewarding the journey is probably the best way to highlight that.
I agree and so does anet that for long term goals there should be a tangible progression to the end reward. But there is a difference between that observable tangible progression and getting rewarded for progressing towards a reward.
I agree their definition which the opposing arguments have been based on in this and other threads, is completely disregarding several factors that happen to make the grind worse in this game than others. For example, people keep arguing that you have a choice.
My arguements mostly center around the barrier to content aspect of anets definition, but as for choice…
Well I’m sorry but unless those who’ve argued choice have actually experienced the whole account lockout of loot or the DR bug that makes whole chests disappear or the mountains of skulls as rewards for every loot drop, there is no choice.
…I showed you how to avoid DR and the mountains of grey items. to avoid that all you need to do is change zones and do different content that offers up rewards from a similar loot table. I start feeling like im getting DR farming t6 bloods in southsun, I go to frostgorge and fight trolls, or cursed shore and fight skelk, griffons, and bulls. I was there at penitent WP when they instituted DR in the game code RIP Blix farm. the thing is you just need to go to another zone to avoid DR
People keep forgetting that not everyone has the same access to loot in this game.
False, everyone at lvl 80 in rare gear can go get any material they want /wiki [item] and go. The only thing that this doesn’t apply to are t2 and t3 fractal mats the shards and globs I think
Those factors are non existent
“People keep forgetting that not everyone has the same access to loot in this game.”
Please explain this statement more and what you mean by it.
as to the last part, i dont know why that would make you hate analogies,
Dont think for 1 second you can impact my life in any way, that didn’t make me hate analogies, it simply illustrated why I hate them on forums
i made an error in the description, it would be 2 levels(but only 1 level able to be gained), but the point really is just that when all of your progress points and growth is back loaded, you are almost guanteeing that the path will begin to feel grindy.80 levels may feel fine, but spread the same 80 levels into fewer points of change/growth/reward and the process feels grindy.
Because it goes into some tangential discussion about a hypothetical situation no one cares about
just as an excerise, how i would design mjolinir?
id make you need
1 gift of ascalon
[Snip]There is nothing in this game that meets the definition of grind better than the gifts from dungeons.
As to the rest of your thought experiment, interesting idea but there is something that doesn’t sit right with me.
All these topics have been addressed in other threads. One point of error is that
Time Gate =/= Grind.
based on many talks/discussions around this topic, i think the problem may be designing long term rewards. rather than designing one big goal that you have to a lot of effort to achieve, Its better to build shorter term goals, and try to make rewards that feel satisfying whenever you get them.
I disagree, the effort I put in to mjolnir over the course of 6 months felt way more rewarding than any of the ascended gear I have made. I am sure that people who craft legendaries feel the same, I believe that the problem is people who feel Entitled to easy access to everything available. Without challenge then no matter how cool the reward you get is, in the end, it will mean littlelong term goals would then tend to be collection of shorter term goals. agree to a point, having a tangible progress in any endeavor is good for motivation
Lets take guild halls, theoretically.
If they make it so you have to gather 100000 wood logs, then you get a guild hall, it will probably feel grindy.
But if they design it so you build each room, while it will take a long time to complete, it will not feel as grindy.
I see what you are saying and think that is exactly the direction they are moving in with the infrastructure they have built for the future precursor crafting and recently with mawdry and star of gratitude I mentioned earlierjust like if the game only had 1 level, and it took 100 hours get enough experience to reach level 2, it would probably feel grindy to a lot of people.
Umm….yeah. So how can a game that has only 1 level have a 100 hour timegate to reach level 2? There isn’t a level 2 in your hypothetical game. This is why I hate analogies on internet forums.
Buy to play is really big for me. Content wise I am very glad I dont have to repeat the same content over and over again to get BIS gear. That turned me off to other mmo’s.
I will never play another mmo without active defenses like dodging. <—Huge
You can’t eliminate all of it, much like you can’t really remove all RNG completely and keep quite the same interest from players.
It’s better to shuffle those things into places where they do not affect the core of the game itself, and act more as flavor/seasonings to the experience as opposed to intruding on the central game itself.
Isn’t the core of the game going out and playing the content available? How is any of it locked behind a grind?
this is bad and crippling reasoning. People being angry that other people dont have to suffer what they suffered, only guarantees suffering.
Best case senario with your plan,
First of all I dont play games to suffer, that would be counterproductive to my escapist entertainment. I enjoyed every bit of my playing this game for the rewards I have received. Too many people here are ignoring that the journey is as important as the destination.
Secondly, Disenfranchised=/=angry, more like disappointed and maybe a little cheated. Marginalized comes to mind.
Third I didn’t offer up any plan.
Any analogies you or anyone uses in response to me will be ignored because they rarely capture the situation accurately. Using them on internet forums is always a straw man argument.
Absolutely false! You cannot sit there and tell everyone that they have the ability to farm for items in a game that has criminalized legit farmer players and brought back several terrible precedents in mmo history for the control of loot just to keep the TP centric nature of the game alive for their own gold farmer market. That simply won’t fly sorry.
I gave 3 examples of how to get the charged cores and lodestones. 2 were from farming 2 different types of mobs and 1 was a dungeon that’s easy to do. This gets around any DR issue you are talking about. I guess you want farm areas where you can press/autoclicker 111111111 and get lewtz. I am personally glad anet fixed/is fixing that type of nonplaying of the game but still getting rewards. I find it amusing that you are so anti-grind yet are pro farm 11111111 style of play. Oh and you may want to loosen that tinfoil hat.
Sitting there and telling everyone who disagrees that they are wrong simply because Anet’s personal definition trumps reality isn’t going to work either.
Well I don’t feel this game has any Grind. They make the game and they CHOOSE the definition they want to develop their game under. There are many words out there with multiple definition that can be used in different ways. Anet chose the definition, one which I support, that they would develop their game under.
I think we need to stop giving these people a platform because it’s getting these threads in circles.
I am very glad that it is the mods who make that decision not you. Why should I not have a platform to share my opinions? Because they do not agree with yours?
Saying the grind doesn’t exist is just as false a statement as saying that everyone can farm for mats!
Heh, you know whats funny? That example about mjolnir I shared is how I made my mjolnir. I guarantee I didn’t hit DR 1 time. Grind doesn’t exist because I farmed mats in a way that everyone can for a top item.
The crazy thing I did while farming those mats, if I felt it got boring to me, I went and did something else for a bit. This is the difference between real grind and what I did, when I went and did other content I could have chosen to convert whatever rewards I received and traded them on the TP for charged lodes and cores.
Again, Grind does not exist in this game, not as a requirement for content, which is what they promised. There is no grind in this game anyone MUST do to participate in any content.
(TBH, though I would consider the progression of fractals to be touching that line in the sand about grind and content, but not in regards to gear or anything material)
I apologize eithinan, I guess my brain did not read each individual word that was in your post. Personally I think that 500 crests for 5 shovels would be a number, but for 250 crest/shovel I think is a little high myself, but I have not done the math to see how much 1 lost bandit chest actually gives you compared to what 1 piece of rare gear can give you.
No problem, just wanted to point out that I really believe anything under 100crests/shovel would be unreasonable.
As for comparisons, the bag of rare gear costs 20s and 250 crests for a chance at 1 rare or exotic item. So the guaranteed return on these is roughly 20 silver/bag.(I know, I’m using rough numbers)
Considering the gold value of opening lost bandit chests and the guaranteed drops from
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lost_Bandit_Chest
The 250 crest price for each shovel is appearing more balanced than I initially thought.
The exchange rate of crests to money is approximately 1g per stack from loot bags, not 20s from rare gear bags.
Are you talking the sandy bags of gear or the bags of stolen goods? I been using the bags of stolen good and opening them just because. I also know you can trade them directly to the TP for kitten I think.
But that is not really what I am comparing. You cannot sell shovels on the tp or rare bags of loot which means comparing those to bags of stolen goods is comparing apples and oranges. The market price on the TP is based off of player supply/demand, not really anet balancing it’s value. The vendor price of bags of stolen goods is 32c.
edit: Kitten = 4.5 Silver
No matter what definition individual players give, it doesn’t matter. It’s how the developers define it that matters.
Yes, ultimately, that’s what it comes down to. Anet defines grind for their game, so that is the end all and be all. We all know that Anet separates grind into required grind and optional grind, but one of the discussions here is whether anything can or should be done about the optional grind because that is minimizing some players’ enjoyment of the game.
For instance, crafting recipes that are particularly difficult to complete due to items dropping rarely in the world or even being impossible to get aside from the TP or simply having really high item requirements – the numbers of items needed could be reduced, thus reducing grind to complete or discover them.
This is a horrible suggestion and I will tell you why. Similar to the new reveal that 100% map comp will not include WvW maps, lowering requirements for items ultimately disenfranchises the loyal players who have already completed it with the harder requirements. It may be “for the best”, which is still a matter of opinion, but it doesnt return the time and effort already put in by people.
This also leads to those loyal players saying to themselves whenever new content comes out, “Ill just wait 6 months or a year and they will make it easier to do” This loss of immediacy ends up making players less interested in logging in regularly because they are not concerned with what they may be missing. You can see the negative side of this at work with the gem store items, and all the issues about limited time offers. The whole black wing sale for 1 day recently is an example of how players react when they lose their sense of immediacy and don’t log in as regularly as they once did.
About the definition of what grind is. It was defined by anet.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/No-grind-philosophy/page/4#post4733273
In the context of gw2, this is the definition of grind. People who do not agree with that definition are wrong. Not because their opinion contradicts it but because they do not acknowledge that definition as being what the devs are working under.
To me “grind” is being required to do the same content(for example, instanced dungeons) for BIS items. Many other mmo’s have this kind of grind. The whole thing where you run a raid/dungeon and gather a piece of armor here or a weapon there from a certain boss only, so you can get all the gear to do the hard mode of that same raid/dungeon. That is locking content behind a grind. Or even worse, the whole xpac thing where other mmo’s jack the max level up and introduce a new line of gear you need to have to participate in the new content or areas. This is also always locked behind the same “repeat content” grind in those games.
Going out and playing this game and getting rewarded with items you can vendor or trade for what you need is great because GW2’s economy and primary currency(gold) are not in the toilet like a lot of those other repeatable content grind mmo’s. In Gw2 there are more rewarding play styles compared to others in gold terms, but in the end anything you choose to do advances you toward whatever goal a player has. If you want mjolnir you can go farm sparks, farm Dust Mites(grindy activity but not grind because you can also..) run COE for cores and lodestones, among other activities you can choose to do.
I apologize eithinan, I guess my brain did not read each individual word that was in your post. Personally I think that 500 crests for 5 shovels would be a number, but for 250 crest/shovel I think is a little high myself, but I have not done the math to see how much 1 lost bandit chest actually gives you compared to what 1 piece of rare gear can give you.
No problem, just wanted to point out that I really believe anything under 100crests/shovel would be unreasonable.
As for comparisons, the bag of rare gear costs 20s and 250 crests for a chance at 1 rare or exotic item. So the guaranteed return on these is roughly 20 silver/bag.(I know, I’m using rough numbers)
Considering the gold value of opening lost bandit chests and the guaranteed drops from
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lost_Bandit_Chest
The 250 crest price for each shovel is appearing more balanced than I initially thought.
Maybe time gate it to 5/day instead of 5/VW. This may be more inline with this suggestion and what Anet has done in the past. Also each should cost at minimum 100 crests. One can grind 500 crests easy in a day doing the events.
This could work as well. Maybe 5/day for 250 Bandit Crest. It all boils down to how to balance it. Right now I feel though that this thread is becoming like a Stack or Do not stack thread, getting stuck at, the map is for defending and take forts or chest farming.
250 crests/5 shovels =/= 100 crests minimum/shovel
Nah. It works fine the way it is. Do events/kill mobs = get shovels.
I agree. That’s why I said at minimum 100/shovel above. I was thinking that a stack of 250crests/shovel would be the correct amount considering the cost of bags of rare gear are 250 crests each. But I figured that would be too high of a number for the forum users to handle.
IMO the best way to design long term goals;
is to set lots of smaller goals along the way.
dont put too much of the goals reward on the end of the task
dont design the number of hours first, then adjust the repetitions to fit that.
So Mawdrey crafting works? Does this fit your ideal? If not how does it differ?
Luminescent armor? Same questions.
Star of gratitude? Same questions.
If not your ideal set up, are those examples moving into the correct direction for you design wise? If not, how would you change the acquisition of future items similar in nature?
Genuinely curious, because I see them moving towards what you want already, especially with precursor hunt/whatever they do in the xpac.
Maybe time gate it to 5/day instead of 5/VW. This may be more inline with this suggestion and what Anet has done in the past. Also each should cost at minimum 100 crests. One can grind 500 crests easy in a day doing the events.
1) Everything can (and sometimes must) be bought with gold and the only effective way of getting that gold is doing some kind of farm.
I cant seem to find the mini liadri on the TP I’ve been looking for. I would also love to get a few of them fractal skins and I would love that fractal tonic, have you seen the transforms? I would also love to mix and match all the Glorious and dungeon armor skins to make a cool look. But I cant seem to find any to buy on the TP.
Two wrongs =/= Right
Two wrongs = Satisfaction
Especially when there are no real punishments handed out. Very few have been suspended unless there is a mass report from dozens of people. 1-2 people travelling across the map getting randomly abused by farmers wont get attention from the powers that be if they report it.
I stand by that reporting and blocking and moving on does not work, hasn’t worked, and wont work because it is dependent on anet enforcing those TOS violations. I have reported tons of people who have been abusive, either to me or others in map chat and NOTHING happens to them. So yeah report and block is like rolling over and taking it.
Just to play the devil’s advocate here, but maize farm groups tend to farm naked because they want to give everyone in the group a chance to tag for credit and get loot; sometimes there are people like
You should have stayed and trolled the maize farm and messed it up for them. blocking anyone who whispered or complained.
who roll by in full gear and troll for whatever reason you’re not aware of, so there’s probably a fair bit of accumulated saltiness even before you arrive. If people perceive you as denying them loot and getting something awesome in the process, they’re going to go from annoyed to toxic really quickly.
This isn’t to defend their attitudes, mind you, but it’s probably equally toxic to instantly vilify people without trying to understand why they’re being jerks in that brief minute of their lives you happened to encounter them at.
I was responding to the OP. To simplify it for you, the OP should have trolled the farm because those farmers were abusive to him and his gf.