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[TP] Should I sell The Bard or The Minstrel?

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eithinan.9841

you can pull about 250-300 gold more in profit if you craft the legendary. whether that is worth your gift and karma and other currencies is up to you.

Buy orders

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eithinan.9841

The avg salvage of items also =/= 1 material. Different weapons and armors salvage to different numbers of materials on average. For example greatswords on average salvage to more materials than daggers.

Forum Slurs- Pledge against them

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eithinan.9841

In this case, the problem seems to be not with the original post but with forum members who are unwilling or unable to remain quiet on a subject that does not require or benefit from their input.

For the WIN!!!!!!

This sums up about 90% of the threads around here and that number dropped substantially since you got rid of the BLTP forum…RIP.

On topic: good for you for deciding on being nice, but ignoring posts with random subjectively offensive words will not help you come to a full understanding of various subjects discussed. Many a truth is told in Troll…

I gonna "manipulate" a market! ROUND 2

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eithinan.9841

Any new updates? You broke even, so how is the profit going?

Current list of fulfilled suggestions

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eithinan.9841

WvW nerf to siege disablers.

To All The Naysayers

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eithinan.9841

#Forumfail2014.
This is my first mount troll bait thread because I was previously able to avoid this stupidity by going straight to the BLTC forums and avoiding general discussion.

But my 2 cents: mounts are superfluous. We got waypoints…..dont waste the devs time…

Why are hackers not getting a fine

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eithinan.9841

Really? Do you have any idea how overloaded our court system in the United States is

idiot things like this are why I am against this merger of the forums. Before the merge i could avoid this garbage that makes my eyes bleed from stupidity.

#ForumFail2014

Precursors under 74 Gold on TP!

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eithinan.9841

it will draw the desired attention and make a particular person happy.

More than one person TBH. I love this topic and almost any that revolves around the TP. It is too bad they killed the BLTP forum.

edit::

Wow, 3 hours old topic and we are already using analogies including Joe Montana and Kia Soul to explain market forces.

This gonna be a hit.

See..

(edited by eithinan.9841)

[Suggestion] The Minstrel

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eithinan.9841

I want harp instrument functionality. Or to skin my BLTP harp with the minstrel skin.

Why are minis so freaking slow?

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eithinan.9841

use swiftness.

Wanze also thought this was about the market.

Inflation pushes progression beyond reach

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eithinan.9841

I disagree that ascended should be a luxury item. I do not agree that best in slot gear is a “luxury.” Of course, I come from playing GW1 where stats weren’t a luxury thing. Cosmetics where.

Tell that to someone trying to buy a req9 max damage inscribable Death Magic Bone Dragon Staff.

See there, it’s the skin that’s the luxury there. Because you could easily get The exact same weapon sans the skin a dime a dozen. An inscribable max dmg staff req 9 death was super easy to get. Think there were a few collectors in NIghtfall that offered them I believe, and I think you might have been ale to craft them from one or two of the npcs. Of course, there were also lots of collectors that offered non-inscribable ones, so you could typically find one with the insric you wanted if you looking.

My point kinda gets lost in what I now see as its complete irrelevancy…. so, umm.. carry on?

Don’t feel bad about it. There were a LOT of players on the old BLTP forums who didn’t understand the concept of “vanity” items or “luxury” items having a higher demand with generally a lower supply, which caused prices to be higher for those items even though you could attain the same stats elsewhere.

Inflation pushes progression beyond reach

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eithinan.9841

There can only be inflation if there was an actual cost to play. But in theory (and even in practice, if you’re frugal enough) your earnings will always far out pace your costs. You can literally play this game without ever spending a single copper. The most basic cost to play now (after removal of repair) is waypoint costs, which you’ll eventually occur on death, although if you patiently lay dead, you will eventually get rez’d.

I respect John and his battle with costs for stuff (TP/BLTC) it’s gotta be pretty darn cool to be able to look at the economy and make rules/decision on drop rates and such. But (and i’m totally guilty of this) blaming the inflation model for a game that cost absolutely nothing in game currency to play is not helping.

Mostly the area i’d like to see helped is the gem exchange rate, but hey, since i give away gold to people on our server, it’s nice to offer a big pot for 50 bucks.

The gem exchange rate is 100% player driven.

I gonna "manipulate" a market! ROUND 2

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eithinan.9841

and in 23 hour this is shuffled to page 4…

new forums = fail

maybe ill go use the search func….oh wait….

I gonna "manipulate" a market! ROUND 2

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eithinan.9841

I dont remember exactly what i wrote but I know i didnt use foul language. maybe i used link, or graph. or SS.

edit: any of which would bring a visual component focusing on the time you are focusing on. Obviously in the OP you kindly provided a link for all the information needed. I am currently looking at different markets with low supply low drop to see if I notice anyone following in your footsteps with other items.

(edited by eithinan.9841)

I gonna "manipulate" a market! ROUND 2

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eithinan.9841

Could you post a weekly or monthly wrapup with kitten of the item from the site to keep us updated on the graphs? I find this fascinating.

Inflation pushes progression beyond reach

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eithinan.9841

I mean, if the game were to restart tomorrow,from scratch, I would not hesitate to drop a hundred real dollars into gems as the eventual profit would be far in excess of that and I would not have to buy gems again.

The exchange rate for RMT has not changed. you would have gotten the same amount of gems at release for $100 as you will today. Those gems just had a lower value in gold back then.

You should be talking about gold to gem conversion.

We are being removed!

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eithinan.9841

We’ll just have to dive in and make the best of it. We’re a talkative bunch, so we have that going for us.

OR we can say its not worth it and not bother posting about the BLTP and stop visiting the forums.

Safest Investments?

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eithinan.9841

What about TP flipping? While I’m not interested playing the game itself, maybe I could play the TP? I don’t have any prior knowledge on it though.

This is the problem with people suggesting “TP flipping” as a way to make gold in every single “how do I make gold” post.

If you are going away then you wont be flipping you will be speculating.

THERE IS NO GUARANTEED METHOD TO INCREASING YOUR GOLD WITH SPECULATING, or flipping, especially if you dont have any knowledge about it.

This is like going into a casino to play poker without knowing the rules to poker yet still planning to leave with a positive amount of money instead of losses.

We are being removed!

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eithinan.9841

As quite a few have already said, +1 for a merger of BLTC and crafting subforum into an economy forum.

Signed

I wouldnt mind though, if all gem store related discussion (I want Bunny Ears) would be moved to general discussions.

An economy subforum would reduce this i believe.

Safest Investments?

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silver is at a good price.

Questions on Forum Reorganization

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eithinan.9841

“A Forum Specialist’s term will end after 6 months, at which time applications will open for a new round of specialists.
Forum Specialists may not serve consecutive 6-month terms, but are welcome to re-apply at a later date.”

Can I suggest that the process of picking new Specialists start at the 5 month mark so there is no gap.

The issue with rewards as I see it

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eithinan.9841

Foxfire clusters are a good example of what they should do more of. Imagine if they added something similar to other harvesting types

You don’t really have to imagine what would happen. It would tank whatever material the new item is associated with for a few months just like elder logs.

Precursors selling for 65 Gold on TP!

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eithinan.9841

It’s only people who want to maintain the status quo that argue “hypocrisy” over such things, to distract from actually fixing the problem.

I didn’t touch that topic because I really do not care which is the default.

I like that you cut out the fact that I don’t flip to try to make your argument…

Precursors selling for 65 Gold on TP!

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I would like to say the irony here is that I don’t actually flip any items anymore and I never really did much flipping to begin with. I will buy some stuff and salvage it or invest in it for later use like making mystic forge items if it is cheap. But the actual flipping I find too tedious for me. I don’t have a moral issue with it mind you, I just don’t bother.

Personally though, when I find something distasteful or morally questionable, I choose not to do it so I can avoid being a hypocrite if I make some public stance on said topic. That can ruin ones credibility.

Precursors selling for 65 Gold on TP!

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eithinan.9841

I’ve done this myself, coming upon markets in which I know I usually sell for a given price, but for some reason there are several units priced well below what it normally is, so I just place my sell order in the usual range and buy up the outliers for sale later.

you dirty flipper….

Precursors selling for 65 Gold on TP!

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eithinan.9841

snip

Thank you for making my point. The thing you are missing is that with the sell to lowest listing option being default and putting the seed listings low i am not fighting with any other bidders or overbidding. I am controlling where the price point is. which means i can clear out the margin at my leisure and then reset the price point.

I could do this in cycles too. using those same numbers I could also drop the price point over night, then clear out the stock the next day sometime mid morning and put in a mass buy order around 40c to make a buy order wall for afternoon and evening. I could have it so people who play during my sleep time have a super low price and the people who play during my waking times have a higher price to pay for what ever items.

All of this is possible with sell to highest bid but I will maintain that with lowest listing as the default it would be much easier.

@Wanze, Is there anything here I have missed or been mistaken about?

Ohohi, please take a look at this thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/PROs-and-CONs-New-Trading-Post/first#post4387588. There are several examples of people, who were super annoyed they had to check “sell highest bidder” instead of “sell lowest order”.

If you read the thread further, you can see that those who really wanted to sell “faster for less” are definitely not the same people who frequent this section of forums, let alone this thread. Also, they don’t sound like being TP trolls.

These are the people why Anet reverted this change. Not because of TP barons. To add my vote, I would have preferred it too being “match lowest listing”. It would have saved so many clicks, and I don’t even do flipping.

I didn’t touch that topic because I really do not care which is the default.

Thank you for posting this link. We can maybe get back to the main topic of Precursors being for sale for UNDER 100 gold!!!!!

Precursors selling for 65 Gold on TP!

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eithinan.9841

2.I already have done this and it does work, but not as well as if the default was set to lowest sell price.

As I said, it would work just as well either way. All that would happen is that other savvy traders would scoop up your “seed bids.”

Seed bids are bought up all the time now, whats your point? Are you really arguing that this method would be less effective if the fastest possible way to list something literally fed into the seed bid? As it is now you drop a seed and hope people fill your buy order. With posting to the lowest sell listing you can guarantee that people would fill out that seed as they clear out bags.

The more I think about it I would probably work some markets that I could do this to in concordance with event items like settler trinkets from Karka Queen or Teq items.

Precursors selling for 65 Gold on TP!

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Oh, I think I’ve worked out what you meant. So basically, the margin when you got there was 30c. You would list a bunch at a low price and drop the margin to 1c, wait for people to list their items at that price, and then buy all those up and relist at a margin of 29c? Well, you could, but 1. I doubt it’d work because other people would likely be buying those low bids up too, and 2. you can already do this, so go right ahead.

1. It would work because of the whole click efficiency thing and any good manipulator would also pad the price points between the real sell listing and the manipulated one.

2.I already have done this and it does work, but not as well as if the default was set to lowest sell price.

I would also be the highest buy order as well so I would fill up my desired stock quickly if I were to run this particular manipulation.

Precursors selling for 65 Gold on TP!

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eithinan.9841

I really wish there was someone who represented the “farmer who dumps his items” to the highest buy order here.

Ok, seriously, why do you believe that a “farmer who dumps his items to the highest buy order” would EVER come out ahead of the “farmer who dumps his items to the lowest sell order?”

I don’t believe that, didnt say I believed that and please dont try putting words into my mouth by cherry picking my posts. I was merely wishing for someone who did that to post their reasons why

Would you address this point please? I really would like to read your thought on it because that is exactly what I would be doing.

I honestly didn’t understand what the hell you were talking about.

It is an example of how I could more easily manipulate the market if the default setting it to post to the lowest sell order. You not understanding that is partly why you have no credibility on this forum.

Precursors selling for 65 Gold on TP!

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eithinan.9841

I really wish there was someone who represented the “farmer who dumps his items” to the highest buy order here.

Feel free to check my post history regarding the change. I always posted that i rather have the lowest listing as default or give players the option to choose, if lowest listing or highest bid will be their default sales price. If you claim that certain people advocate certain changes, please provide quotes to back it up before insulting them.

I would also like to say I have never even commented on the default option until a few posts ago. So I concur with wanze.

Since you ignored the followup post ill give you one reason why selling to the highest bid as default is a bad thing.

“I think that the tp would be easier to manipulate with this system in place.

Simple scenario: item X has sell now price of 20c and a list price of 50c. I would list 25 at 21c let people stock up my ultra low price point and then buy them out relisting them at 49c. I really like this idea and think they should revert the change back. Is this the “best” option for people? It sure is for me."

Would you address this point please? I really would like to read your thought on it because that is exactly what I would be doing.

(edited by eithinan.9841)

Precursors selling for 65 Gold on TP!

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eithinan.9841

Except an Auction House is a very different structure to selling goods with sellers at most having the ability to set a minimum price, it’s then up to buyers to set the “best” price by out bidding each other for it.

In a Trading Post the seller sets the one price he’s willing to accept and then the first buyer willing to meet the price gets the item.

As for what is “better”, the assumption is for the player to get, or hold on to in the case of buying, more coin. Secondary, and I’m not sure if Ohoni would think this is secondary, it would dry up the flipping market by eliminating the money players are leaving on the table by selling at high bid and buying at low sale price.

Actually I misread what you were saying about auction houses and just thought you had used the wrong term there. I am fully aware of the differences between the system we have in GW2 and an auction house format, just a mistake on my part.

I dont necessarily believe that it would dry up the flipping market. It would certainly slow it down a bit and make the bots a more powerful tool. I think that the tp would be easier to manipulate with this system in place.

Simple scenario: item X has sell now price of 20c and a list price of 50c. I would list 25 at 21c let people stock up my ultra low price point and then buy them out relisting them at 49c. I really like this idea and think they should revert the change back. Is this the “best” option for people? It sure is for me.

edit: think what can be done with fine/masterwork markets.

(edited by eithinan.9841)

Precursors selling for 65 Gold on TP!

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eithinan.9841

The only metric by which they could gather such data, particularly within such a short turnaround, would be by listening to people on the forums.

Again, you don’t know all data they access and collect so what you say is not necessarily true.

It’s true, but what data can you even reasonably posit that would allow them to know which way players preferred it within a period of weeks?

Anet can track usage of the TP compared to what people vendor. I suppose they saw a huge spike in people selling to the vendor greens and blues, for convenience sake, as opposed to putting up for sale on the TP.

Where did auction houses enter the discussion?

In WOW the trading post was called the auction house. Just terminology, no need to quibble.

As for my take on the default pricing on the TP when you are selling I was for forcing every single player to enter a price manually, no defaults.

There’s no real benefit to that. The default should be the value that is best for the player.

But the philosophical question is this, what is better for the player? The highest price or the quickest sale? You cannot determine this because YOU are not privy to all the data that Anet has so don’t bother answering this because you will just be making baseless assumptions. You can have an opinion on it like you do everything else here but like many others it will be an uninformed one.

You also make the assumption that putting up a sell listing sells thing as fast as sell now option which is not true. Now we can argue all day that the time issue on most high velocity items is inconsequential, but it doesn’t change the fact that sell now is a faster return than sell listing.

Precursors selling for 65 Gold on TP!

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eithinan.9841

the best they’ve got is the forums, and they listened to the TP trolls

Working the TP is just as appropriate a way of playing as grinding dungeons. JS has confirmed this. I am insulted you would refer to me or wanze or smooth or aryilana or any of us as trolls. plz moderate this post like I was moderated for calling ohoni a socialist.

im a little drunk after thanksgiving dinner. thanks for your attention

Precursors selling for 65 Gold on TP!

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eithinan.9841

snip

Thankfully, my post is right above and it will show how much you contradict yourself despite your cherry picking quotes.

Precursors selling for 65 Gold on TP!

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LOL part 2

Yes, but there are clear distinctions to be made between flipping and “skill based adventuring.” For one thing, you can flip hundreds of gold on a single trade with flipping, or in a more casual manner dozens. There are no activities in the game itself, no matter how skilled the player, that offer even remotely similar rewards.

Volume again. They cannot “fix” this and really shouldn’t try. let me repeat myself again, A game cannot balance the rewards from drops with the potential to make profit off a TP without devaluing its currency to the point of nothing.

Second, of course, is that the TP is a PvP activity, the profits do not come from beating the game, it comes from beating other players, and for those that prefer the purely cooperative experience that the PvE content thrives on, this aspect is distasteful.

For every one of those people out there I say there is someone who enjoys the act of PvP and the great feeling of getting a win. Whether in sPvP or tpPvP. All the rest fall into the middle of “it doesn’t matter” to them like my friend I mentioned above.

I can’t believe this post is still going on :P
I think adding this might help: Most precursors sold on the TP are not to players with lots of money, they are to players that work hard at making a legendary. Players with a lot of money have that money because they don’t spend it. If they are buying precursors with it, then they don’t have it anymore. “the rich get richer” … because they don’t spend their riches. There are just so many people that want to make a legendary that the demand for precursors is higher than the supply of precursors, so their price increases.

If you have 2000g, and you spend 1500 of it on a Legendary, then you’ll be put in a tight spot on the “making money” front, with a lot less capital to invest. If you have 10Kg or 15Kg, then dropping a couple thousand on a toy isn’t likely to set you back too badly in your progress. To say that a wealthy player in the game cannot buy a few legendaries and remain wealthy is like saying that the wealthy in the real world cannot buy a yacht and remain wealthy. They can do both.

I am happy you finally acknowledged that legendary’s are luxury items like yachts. Unlike a yacht in real life though anyone can afford to craft a legendary after enough dedication to playing/grinding all aspects of this game.

Precursors selling for 65 Gold on TP!

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eithinan.9841

I dont see the problem, all players can be equally aware of the market trends using the tools available online. Those are 1/5 of the links I have that are easily found with google. Unless you are complaining that Anet isn’t spoon feeding that mass amount of data to the players.

There are tools, and they help, but 1. The vast majority of players have no idea that they exist because they are not in engine, and 2. of those who do know that they exist, many do not know how best to use them. Again, the current market bonanza is entirely dependent on the ignorance of a large portion of the playerbase.

So you want anet to completely destroy their economy because most players are too ignorant to learn how to use the TP to make profit, Got it. your words not mine.

This… I just … wow.

It should come as no shock that I pick my battles where I may. I fundamentally agree that Glorious armor should be more available, but it’s not a point upon which I care so much that I would crusade on it.

But that is what blows my mind. It is the same argument and another example of skilled players having goods that unskilled players don’t have. Which sums up your main issue with TP flipping. Skilled players of the Trading post have more goods than unskilled players. On a personal note I don’t care about any skin other than for the profit it can bring me. I also got a friend who enjoys farming and just dumps his stuff to the highest bidder. This makes me mental because he’s leaving all this gold on the table for Wanze :P But that’s what he wants to do. He doesn’t give a rats behind about maximizing profit or any of that. He also doesn’t envy my in game wealth because he has his multiple gear sets and look, which allows him to just play how he wants.

You have some weird fixation on players who play the TP, and think they only sit at the TP npc’s and do nothing else. That’s the beauty of working the TP. You can post some buy/sell orders and go play other aspects of the game.

My point is that those other aspects of the game should offer a higher return on the time invested than playing the TP, and that when they do not, it represents a toxic element of the economy.

No, it represents a realistic element of the economy. A game cannot balance the rewards from drops with the potential to make profit off a TP without devaluing its currency to the point of nothing. It is all about the difference between rewards and profit from investment and the volume of trades on the market. The only way to control volume is to place limits on the trades people can make which would be very bad for the economy as a whole. One of the things that makes this system so good is the fact that there are so many trades every day. High velocity is good, limiting trades is bad.

I also dont see why an adventure game shouldnt involve trading.

Trading, yes, making money from money via trading, no. Every item sold in the TP should be an item that the seller generated himself into the world via crafting or loot. Every item purchased should be used by the person that purchases it, bought because he wanted it for his own use. Players should not be able to take gold, purchase items, then throw them back onto the market at some point at a higher rate and turn a profit.

The markets should be designed to make it easier for an adventurer to offload stuff he does not need in return for higher than vendor prices, or to find items that he wants but that would not drop for him through his adventuring play. There should not be a role for anyone in the middle of those two roles other than the TP itself.

First paragraph is all your opinion and you are welcome to it, but I and many disagree with you. Thankfully for us Anet seems to agree with us.

The second paragraph goes back to my belief that you have a very anti-capitalistic economy POV. I’m not saying that as an insult, just observation. You want the TP to purchase and offer goods at a TP regulated price. You essentially want the TP to be a higher priced vendor with all the items available. This goes against what Anet wants in their game. They want a thriving marketplace as the cornerstone of their economy.

Precursors selling for 65 Gold on TP!

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eithinan.9841

Yeah, and there is perhaps some genuine profit to be fairly earned there, but in most cases it benefits from the trader having a better idea of the flow of the market, how quickly things move, where the price is likely to shift over a period of time, and how much cost is involved in producing a given item. If all players were equally aware of how each market works,

http://www.gw2spidy.com/

https://www.gw2tp.com/

http://www.gw2craftgold.com/

I dont see the problem, all players can be equally aware of the market trends using the tools available online. Those are 1/5 of the links I have that are easily found with google. Unless you are complaining that Anet isn’t spoon feeding that mass amount of data to the players.

If you’re saying that the current method of getting Glorious armor is ridiculous then I would totally agree with you, and if I cared more about getting that armor set then I would be very upset about it.

This… I just … wow.

I don’t see why TP players are deserving of it though, as the TP is not an adventuring gameplay element, they have no need for armor.

You have some weird fixation on players who play the TP, and think they only sit at the TP npc’s and do nothing else. That’s the beauty of working the TP. You can post some buy/sell orders and go play other aspects of the game.

Precursors selling for 65 Gold on TP!

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eithinan.9841

the GW2 TP has too devalued gold as a currency of merit for that to apply anymore.

This statement is so false that it borders on the absurd.

Look at Black lion Chests……..someone/s bought up…what roughly 16k gold worth (can’t remember offhand exactly…but it was a load) a while back, which has since increase said price duo fold.

edit take my numbers on this post with a grain of salt as I’ve been drinking a bit

And the average player is getting more gold from selling them. They should thank this person/people.

Gold-Fed-Extract-o-Matic

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eithinan.9841

This is an obvious straw man, you can dye your armor to be almost any color you want.

Note: trying a new post format.Trololo

cant tell if srs

Really? I think I was quite clear on that point.

Gold-Fed-Extract-o-Matic

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eithinan.9841

Why do they have to leave the game? There is 6g leaving the game when I extract them, there is the gem price to get the item in the first place. There is TP tax when they change owners. People will always make new alts or change build, there are always the new players.

Putting such a high gold cost on testing builds is what’s keeping the meta stale and boring. People would be more willing to try new things if it didn’t mean losing a huge amount of gold every time.

Because if they dont leave the game somehow, the prices of the more expensive runes will inevitably get cheaper. The first problem will be, when all prices fall below the gold extraction price of the device.
People who bought it, will feel cheated and will demand from Anet to lower the gold cost per extraction.
Most superior upgrades already hover around vendor value, which is bad. We dont need another faucet for the ones that arent yet.

All these are good points but you can mitigate them simply by restricting it to stripping exotic and lower armor. Leave ascended/legendary as the rune/sigil sink.

Mitigation wont negate my points.

No reason to negate your points and they are correct so I couldn’t if I tried. Anet is playing a balancing game with the economy and have shown in the past they are willing to make course corrections on things to bring balance.

I think the people have spoken on this and really need it to happen to continue experiencing the game in a pleasurable manner.

I have polled myself and a few others who have posted on this forum about it and the consensus outside a few statistical irregularities support everything I’m saying.

Putting such a high gold cost on testing builds is what’s keeping the meta stale and boring. People would be more willing to try new things if it didn’t mean losing a huge amount of gold every time.

I couldn’t agree more.

plus pink armor isnt a viable sink

This is an obvious straw man, you can dye your armor to be almost any color you want.

It would have been better design, in my opinion, if they had made all runes/sigils craftable and NEVER salvageable.

This would have been cool I agree.

Note: trying a new post format.Trololo

Gold-Fed-Extract-o-Matic

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Posted by: eithinan.9841

eithinan.9841

Why do they have to leave the game? There is 6g leaving the game when I extract them, there is the gem price to get the item in the first place. There is TP tax when they change owners. People will always make new alts or change build, there are always the new players.

Putting such a high gold cost on testing builds is what’s keeping the meta stale and boring. People would be more willing to try new things if it didn’t mean losing a huge amount of gold every time.

Because if they dont leave the game somehow, the prices of the more expensive runes will inevitably get cheaper. The first problem will be, when all prices fall below the gold extraction price of the device.
People who bought it, will feel cheated and will demand from Anet to lower the gold cost per extraction.
Most superior upgrades already hover around vendor value, which is bad. We dont need another faucet for the ones that arent yet.

All these are good points but you can mitigate them simply by restricting it to stripping exotic and lower armor. Leave ascended/legendary as the rune/sigil sink.

(edited by eithinan.9841)

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Posted by: eithinan.9841

eithinan.9841

It would have been better design, in my opinion, if they had made all runes/sigils craftable and NEVER salvageable.

This would have enabled rune/sigil crafting to be a legitimate source of player income.

It doesn’t really work that way though with this type of virtual economy.

Scenario: All runes and sigils are able to be crafted with various mats.

in PvE/PvP there are “meta runes/sigils” made with specific mats assigned to each of those upgrades.

The prices would balance with the component mats increasing or decreasing in price based on changes in meta sending ripples out through other markets.. The crafting market is not where craftable runes would make people gold like everything else in this game its the mats.

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Posted by: eithinan.9841

eithinan.9841

All that is pure speculation. The RNG factor would make the salvage mats a drop in the bucket considering the velocity of those markets.

Karma and badge armor and badge weapons have been shown in other threads to be a loss when salvaged theoretically.

Both of these alt currencies should be on the same footing as dungeon armor with regards to salvaging.

Others say “but what about all those badges people have stockpiled?” Big deal. People would be stockpiling dungeon badges if you couldn’t salvage that armor too…

Precursors selling for 65 Gold on TP!

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Posted by: eithinan.9841

eithinan.9841

Riddle me this: If an argument makes no sense, can it really be misunderstood?

I’m sure you would have more experience making nonsensical arguments than I. After all, check the OP.

You compare 2 price points again for market imbalance instead of looking at the period of time.
That is just a price comparison.

I’m saying that over the period of time from near launch to today, the price has remained mostly the same except for that one two-month period.

It is also disingenuous of you to take off names from quotes and cherry pick different quotes from different posters. It is an attempt to confuse any discussion you are in.

I don’t do this.

For example, if the median price (just making this up) is 750g and the average grinder makes 10g an hour it should roughly take you 75 hours of dedicated gameplay to craft/scavenger hunt etc your precursor.

I would be fine with that, so long as the 75 hours of “dedicated gameplay” is still relatively fun and interesting. After all, grinding 750 gold could be a chore, but there are also ways to play that it might take longer but be more entertaining.

Head Explodes

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Posted by: eithinan.9841

eithinan.9841

That’s not a good way to start a post. Essentially you’re confirming what Ohoni is saying.

The 1st sentence in the second bit is valid though.

He’s confirming that Ohoni believes that precursors are too expensive for him? Yes, he did. However he wasn’t confirming that precursors are too expensive or at least that’s my take on it.

To phrase in another way:

Ohoni believes precursors are too expensive. Eithinan confirmed that Ohoni has this belief. That’s all.

This post sums up what these two bring to the table in these discussions a lot of times. Quibbling and clarification respectively.

TY Ayrilana.

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Posted by: eithinan.9841

eithinan.9841

Yeah, keep changing what you are arguing.

No, you just keep deliberately misunderstanding what I’m arguing.

I understand what you are saying. “Dawn is too high price for me”. That is what you keep saying over and over again with all these reasons and explanations that contradict themselves.

I also understand that you don’t care about the market ramifications for making precursors more widely available, which is counterproductive to what Anet envisions for their game. You also completely ignore that throwing a big chunk of the markets into chaos would be bad for the “common player” and really only make the “TP Barons” richer.

I am not deliberately misunderstanding anything and I find it amusing that YOU would throw that in my face when there are pages of posts which you are doing this exact same thing.

It is also disingenuous of you to take off names from quotes and cherry pick different quotes from different posters. It is an attempt to confuse any discussion you are in.

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Posted by: eithinan.9841

eithinan.9841

And exactly that price spike of RLS makes it more unstable than Dawn in that period of time.

During that small period of time, a matter of days or weeks, yes. Over the life of the game, no.

That’s what I’m saying, the price for RLS has been more stable over it’s history than the price of Dawn

Yeah, keep changing what you are arguing.

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Posted by: eithinan.9841

eithinan.9841

JS makes a statement that directly links their consideration of the long term stability of the market to permanent content. It’s not reaching to see that Anet values its market stability with respect to the content in the game from that statement, otherwise they wouldn’t consider it in their permanent content plans and he wouldn’t have mentioned it as a factor.

I mean, this gets back to the whole point and the evidence that supports it. A Game development company does not hire a PhD economist to monitor the market because they don’t value the performance of the market in the game. It’s just stupid to suggest otherwise.

long term stability does not require the current design, in fact the current design seems to be one that will not be stable. Too much is tied to the values of one class of item.

What do you consider stable?
I would say that precursors are some of the stablest items in game.

They are stable now, but should they become unstable, the whole economy will feel the ripples.
lets say some new high profile items come up that dont have the same aquisition, how will that effect the entire rest of the economy?

then there is the question, what happens when precursors reach the saturation point? when most who want them have them?

Precursors probably arent going to be the “thing” forever, and since that is the case, it may not be a good idea for so much of the economy to be dependent on these items.

You said the current design is/will be unstable, I was just wondering what design you were referring to.

it will be unstable any time precursors become unstable, this has happened for various reasons in the past, but not to an insane degree.

Essentially, for long term stability, you dont have too much tied to one item.

Well, good thing then that they are quite stable. And a good point for not making them widely and cheaply available.

any design where a single point of failure can collapse the whole thing is not considered stable.

One of the precise problems with an economy that is too heavily based on one good is being forced to continue practices that are bad for the world as a whole, in order to protect the economy.

I like how anet makes corrections to that exact issue over time. With the addition of Ascended weapon and armor crafting, event based mat sinks like the spinal backpieces for a short term adjustment etc. All that is for the purpose of balancing the whole economy but not for the benefit of precursors.

People here seem to mistake Precursors being a large/influential part of the economy(naturally, due to the high value) with being the “linchpin” that will destroy all aspects of it(the economy) if there are changes made in the acquisition of them(Pre’s). What you will see is all the various items associated with them dropping in price. This will hurt the people “Playing the game as intended”, which i grant is the vast majority, by lowering their income.

The complicated thing Anet is trying to do is figuring out a way to get an alternate method of acquisition of pre’s without killing the associated markets(wood,metal,t5,t6,etc…). This is to prevent the majority of their players, who go out and farm or grind or whatever and are not entitled, getting the shaft.

People are not leaving gw2 because of the difficulty of getting Pre’s, or if they have left solely because of that they are statistically insignificant to other reasons.

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Posted by: eithinan.9841

eithinan.9841

And just to throw out some data about market stability between RLS and Dusk.

From sept 2013-sept2014

Dusk- Low:740g high:1654g 2.25% fluctuation, current 1421g 1.92% above lowest price
RLS- Low:4c High:78c 19.5% fluctuation , current 10c 2.5% above lowest price

so the current price of RLS is by percent, higher than the spike dusk got. RLS is less stable than Dusk.

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Posted by: eithinan.9841

eithinan.9841

The next step will be a specific individual recanting everything he said because he was proven wrong and then claim the definition of market stability is not clear and he is using his own definition of the word like the inflation argument in another thread.

“What I really mean is….”

Edit: market stability is measured by taking 2 points in time and seeing how much of a change happens during that time to an items price. You take the lowest price and the highest price during that time and that will show you how stable a product is.

(edited by eithinan.9841)