Guild Wars 2

Here’s how I looked at this on paper. Start by assuming you could maintain 50% alacrity.

If you can do just a little better than this, you can get 15 shatters in during a 60 second window (about 8 mind wracks, 4 cry of frustration, 3 diversion). So, in theory, you could pull off a shatter every 4 seconds if you could supply enough illusions. So the question is, can you create 45 clones every sixty seconds.

On the supply side, if you get above 50% alacrity uptime, then conceptually scepter block comes up every 4 seconds. So if you used it every time and got it to proc within 1 second, that’s 12 clones every sixty seconds. Sword block looks like you can get about 6 clones. Because you’re blocking a lot, you should be able to get your 3 illusionary defenders from mental defense (and each can be shattered twice). You should also be able to get 5 swordsman illusions good for 2 shatters each. With two uses of mirror images and 2 uses of decoy, you get 6 more clones. So that gives you 40 shatterable illusions. But with each shatter (as long as you don’t have 3 phantasms), you get a free clone from illusionary reversion. So that’s about 13 extra clones for a total of 53 shatterable things in 60 seconds.

Now in real gameplay, it’s extremely hard to hit every window. Sometimes you’re holding a block for two seconds. Sometimes the block misses. Sometimes you generate an extra illusion when you have no shatter available. Plus, you want to use confusing images, so you have some 2-second windows to work around. And when it’s time to recharge the healing mantra, you basically lose 3 seconds.

On the other hand, the starting sequence that I’m describing lets you create and shatter 12 to 16 things in the first couple of seconds of the fight (because you’re burning all the cooldowns while the F5 window is open). So this means you start off with a much higher ratio than 50% alacrity – you have alacrity for probably the first full 12 seconds of the fight continuously. Also, I’m not even considering clones created by scepter auto-attack.

In my own testing, I found it pretty hectic to try to manage all this. And so I’m guessing a pretty steady rate of 4-illusion shatter every 5 to 6 seconds is pretty achievable but also tricky. Still, if you could maintain a fairly decent level of might, the question is whether that’s more valuable than generating torment with MtD. The idea of the build is hybrid damage – but I’m not trying to achieve a 50-50 split between condi and power. Confusing images looks like it has a 2.5 damage modifier and illusionary riposte is 2.0. So even a little bit more power gets a good return from these.

Anyway, I really appreciate the feedback. It looks like I’ll miss the next beta weekend, so I’ll have to wait a while before I can test more.

Thx Pyro – always better to have direct feedback.

The dire gear can absolutely be swapped out for carrion or rabid.

The power side of this is definitely low in this current version.

That said, the thing that may not come through is that, at least with the testing I did during beta, alacrity speeds things up a lot. So it’s possible to be shattering around every 5 to 6 seconds (it’s likely it will be a bit slower with changes to require two illusions to get the bonus clone and the reduction of 1 second to 0.75 seconds). In the testing I did, I was able to keep 16+ stacks of might up (the heal contributes nicely as well) – but perhaps it will be down to 12 now.

With confusing images coming available about every 7 seconds and scepter block maybe every 5 seconds, it felt like I could keep a really nice degree of condi pressure. The burning from iMage is nice to start, but I wasn’t relying on it much.

Still, I see the weaknesses you’re pointing out. Back to researching I guess.

I’d like feedback on this build for WvW roaming. I’ve been experimenting with the concepts for a while. So far it seems capable, fun and a bit different than most other builds (though I’m sure it’s similar to many including Pyro’s dueling build from way back…)

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQRArf7cl0nhy0YjawTNwtGLOH1ZAMAJWdhmoNKaF8YJAA-TFyCABA8AAe4IA4p6P5pfYiTCQiKBzS5ne7PEAAB4mtZb2mBH9oH9oH9oNzZe0Ze0ZWKgFFWB-w

The core ideas are to take advantage of the chronomancer ability to shatter frequently and to utilize attacks that contribute both power and condi damage to take advantage of the might stacking. The defense from the Inspiration line combined with frequent blocks and stealth seem to give good survivability (scepter block can potentially be available with just over a 4 second cooldown with enough alacrity for example).

I’ve been testing using Continuum Split as a way to generate a lot of might and alacrity early in the fight. So for example:
- Get two phantasms and a clone out, F5 shatter
- Still have two phantasms and get a new clone, F3 shatter
- Have one new clone, use mirror images, F2 shatter
- Get one new clone, use decoy, use confusing images (scepter 2)

I need more testing on what’s truly best here, but it’s a nice way to start a fight.

I don’t do much PvP, but I think the pvp version of this build would be something like this:
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQRArf7cl0nhy0YjawTNwtGLOH1ZAMAJWdhmoNKaF8YJAA-TZRHwABOJAILDA4IAI4BAQa/BA

It’s low on toughness, but maybe it’s workable.

I’d love any feedback. Thx!

Just wanted to say thanks for this fix:
- Illusionary Riposte: Fixed a bug that caused this skill to fail to summon a clone while the player had a scepter equipped as their main-hand weapon.

It may not affect many people, but it’s important to a build that I’m trying to make work out.

More importantly, it shows nice responsiveness both from Anet and players. I noticed this bug when testing my build. I posted here to see if others had experienced it. Pyro confirmed and told me how to report. I reported it, and it’s fixed all within a couple weeks.

As someone who manages software development, I know it can be really tough to keep closing out bugs while you’re working on a major release. So I just wanted to say thanks!

I’ve been playing a lot with scepter / sword lately. I would be totally happy with just getting a fix to sword #4 creating a clone on a successful block while you have scepter in main hand.

The skill works correctly if you have a sword in main hand, but fails to create a clone on block if you have scepter in main hand.

Robert,

I really appreciate your thoughtful approach and willingness to communicate.

I played Mesmer for about 1.5 years and loved it. Eventually, I moved on to trapper ranger and found it much more powerful for WvW roaming. With the changes from June and what I can see of Chronomancer, I’m now playing Mesmer again full time.

The information you’ve shared has made it fun to theorycraft and test build concepts even well before Chronomancer arrives.

Keep up the great work and have fun!

From my testing, I don’t think I will use the current form of Gravity Well.

The float effect is really fun to see.

For me, the radius is small, there’s nothing that keeps the opponent in place, and the damage is only okay.

Small testing note: I was trying the skill on some of the stone head dinosaurs in Verdant Brink. They appear to be immune to physical damage on frontal attacks. Gravity Well was inconsistent in terms of whether its damage landed on a stonehead inside the radius.

Just wanted to share the concept I’ve been testing this weekend. I did most of my testing in PVE, and I suspect this build is probably too glass for real PVP.

The idea is hybrid condition and direct damage with the maximum use of shatters (but also condi removal and healing via shatter).

Right now, the PVP version of this build looks something like this:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQRArc7fl0nhy0YjawTNwtGKOH0ZAGQiRrwjTAA-TJhHAB0eEA2Y/BAOJAHVGAA

In the Chronomancer specialization, you have Time Catches Up, Illusionary Reversion and Chronophantasma.

Here is the video of doing the F5 shatter as soon as a couple phantasms and a clone are up. I’m sure someone else could do this rotation better and faster, but the result is 16 stacks of might and nearly all cooldowns reset.
https://youtu.be/uZvlQptAcoc

It feels like it has potential, but it also feels like it would be tough to pull off all these steps in a real fight.

I’ve been working on a very similar build, but not for pvp yet.

Here are a few things I’m doing differently:
- Shattered strength instead of MTD (lots of shatters)
- Trying to only use scepter mainhand and torch/sword offhands (there’s a bug with sword block not making a clone)
- In PVE, I’m using runes of aristocracy. Testing runes of strength with beta.
- Carrion gear

It’s squishy for me right now, but I suspect a better player could do some serious damage.

My testing is somewhat limited so far. I feel like I haven’t really found a great way to take advantage of F5, but I love experimenting with it.

I’ve been playing with Inspiration, Illusions and Chrono trying to shatter at a frequent pace. It feels like it could work, but right now I’m squishy. And I’m trying to learn a new mouse at the same time, so that’s not helping… lol

For what it’s worth, this is a video of using this scepter-focused build to take a camp.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTWbO9sq2fE

You can see there are a couple of cases where scepter auto-attack adds a useful clone for shattering.

Thx Robert for posting. I always love to see the reasoning behind decisions.

I’m planning to test Chronomancer this weekend, so I’ll try GW as it is.

Here’s another option that feels doable with the current technology and might be fair:
- First pulse = 2 sec chill
- Second pulse = 2sec chill plus direct damage
- Third pulse = pull five targets to center and float for 2 sec (the float effect is just cool) and good direct damage (and remove stability effect for allies but give all affected targets weakness for 5 seconds)

So you would need to work to keep a target in the space for the third pulse to land, but if you do, it’s a nice payoff.

I’m currently playing a build with only scepter mainhand (for both weaponsets). The auto-attack is not great, but I don’t use it too often and I appreciate having another clone for shattering. (The build is an experiment for a future chronomancer, so it’s not a stunningly great build right now.)

If mesmer doesn’t work out for you, you can try condi trapper ranger with trapper runes.

That will get you some target drops and is a natural condition build

I was looking forward to possibly using this before the nerf. I think if you consider the other elites, some kind of AoE CC and damage seems like the missing thing. (Moa is single target cc, mass invis is multi-person defense, time warp is multi-person augment with small penalty to foes).

So I think I would change it just slightly from the original design. It’s still 3 pulses.
- Pulse 1 – small damage, clear visual effect
- Pulse 2 – an instant pull into the center plus small damage (there was a second to avoid this)
- Pulse 3 – small damage, if you got caught in the pull, you have a second to stun break and get out
One second later, the final pulse which is larger damage and float.

I like keeping the stability effect and would trade a longer cooldown to have that stay on the skill.

It’s kind of tough to do precisely with the livestream video, but if you go to the 22:19 mark in the video, Robert shatters two illusions so he has 3 seconds of alacrity (with the one extra second from illusionary persona). You can see when the alacrity buff kicks in, the Illusionary Disenchanter is at 17 seconds of cooldown. Three seconds later, you can see the alacrity buff drop and Illusionary Disenchanter goes from 13 seconds of cooldown to 12 seconds of cooldown right at that moment (and Mind Wrack seems to go from 11 seconds to 6 seconds in the same time).

I don’t know if there’s a way to play back YouTube videos with precise control of the timing. Here’s the livestream I’m talking about: http://dulfy.net/2015/05/01/gw2-chronomancer-points-of-interest-livestream-notes/

I know that they said on the live stream that alacrity meant that you got 1 second extra cooldown for 3 seconds. But they also said that alacrity would cancel chill. So the chill description in the wiki (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chilled) says:

While chilled, skill cooldowns additionally progress at a 66% slower rate; i.e. for every 3 seconds chilled, only 1 second of cooldown will have expired.

So it seems like chill is creating a 2-second penalty in 3 seconds of elapsed time, so it feels like alacrity would need to create a 2-second bonus in 3 seconds of elapsed time to counter chill.

Thx for helping me try to get my head around this – it seems like it should be a simple concept but dividing the alacrity duration by 3 to find the recharge reduction just isn’t clicking for me.

Thx. I give ANet credit for coming up with unique mechanisms. I think that really makes the profession fresh and interesting. I know that makes balancing tough. But it would be really disappointing to add a mechanic that had no practical way to use it in a viable build.

So on the actual mechanic of alacrity, suppose that I triggered a 10-second cooldown at the exact moment I had 3 seconds of the alacrity buff. After 3 seconds, assuming I never had chill on me during any of this time, what would the recharge time on my 10-second cooldown skill show?

I think the answer here has to be 5-seconds. But I’m curious if I’m looking at this wrong.

I went back to watch the livestream again, and there’s a couple things I couldn’t find that maybe others have figured out.

- Does Illusionary Persona count for Alacrity? (i.e. do you get 1 second of alacrity when you shatter even if you have no clones)

- Shouldn’t alacrity give you 2 seconds of recharge bonus for every 3 seconds you have the buff? It seems to me that if it gave a 50% bonus, your recharges would tick for 3 seconds of cooldown each 2 seconds you have the buff (and would save you 1 second). With a 66% buff, it seems like you should get 5 seconds of cooldown benefit for 3 seconds of having the buff (so a 2-second benefit).

I’m looking forward to actually testing this out. It seems like ANet could get a lot of benefit from letting players try the specializations in beta form (much like testing the revenant).

I’m interested in shield for a possible condi shatter build.

With the chronophantasma trait, it seems like you potentially get 4 shatters every 24 seconds from this (actually more frequently than that because of the reduction in cooldown you get from the alacrity they give you from shield throws and the alacrity from shattering).

Probably already been asked – sorry

Based on my tests, it looks like it removes one condi per shatter regardless of the number of illusions you have out. Is that right?

Thx!

As someone who does a ton of camp clearing, I find there can be a lot variability between any two attempts with the same gear.

Especially if you aren’t stacking the mobs in a really tight spot, you can just have a lot of different situations.

I would bet that, assuming equal skill, a power build would clear a camp faster. A condi build (using Dire gear) would be more forgiving which is why I tend to use it. I think it’s cool you’re testing both and finding what works best for you.

Thx for all the detailed answers!

I have a long-term plan for my condi chronomancer.

In the short term, looks like my balthazar runes are a bit underwhelming…

Reported in separate post, but adding it here to consolidate.

Illusionary riposte (offhand sword #4) will not produce a clone on a successful block if scepter is equipped in main hand.

I made an entry in the bugs forum. Thx for confirming my result, Pyro.

When wielding a sword in the mainhand, Illusionary Riposte (sword offhand skill #4) creates a clone on a successful block.

When wielding a Scepter in the mainhand, Illusionary Riposte does NOT create a clone on a successful block.

On a side note, I’m curious what kind of clone this should create

Thx Pyro.

What’s the right way to report a bug?

The Illusionary Riposte description says it creates an illusion. I’ve tried a bunch of tests, and it never seems to create anything on a successful block.

For the tests, I have a scepter in main hand and sword offhand.

Anyone else see this issue?

In WvW, I’ve been playing with Balthazar which seems quite nice for the AOE 2 burn stacks and burn duration.

In PvP, it seems you only get one burn stack when the runes proc.

Any other runes highly recommended?

I’ve been theorycrafting a chronomancer/illusions/chaos condi shatter build.

I’ve been playing with inspiration/illusions/chaos, so it’s going to be a bit of an adjustment. I’m currently planning on illusionary disenchanter as a big part of condi defense.

It’s going to be interesting…

I’ve never tried soloing a keep, but I just happened to test soloing a tower last night with the condi build I’ve been working on. My gameplay is pretty bad, but it’s a very doable thing with this Dire-based build
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1sxvOBfRHI

Thx very much for all the help!

I really don’t know the profession at all, so making builds just from trait descriptions has it’s issues.

I’ll chat through it with him this weekend and see what he likes.

Thx much for the help. I definitely like the survivability of dire gear for him.

It looks like an ranged condi build is generally hard to pull off, but I was wondering about something like this.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAV6alsMh2mYdTw8JQ/EHyEFPHahbwvFjxHq3zpIAA-TxxGABAoE0gLCQPK/gT3gLq/E9+DC8EAIEgi5A-e

Maybe it wouldn’t work out great, but I could see him starting off with stealing and then dodging back (in stealth). Then he uses the pistol autoattack when he has no initiative, and the 4 and 2 skills on the bow when initiative is available.

Whenever he feels pressured, he uses one of the utility skills or his heal to go into stealth and get away. And the elite is there for whenever he wants to add a little burst.

It doesn’t do that much damage, and it might get boring even for really casual play. But it seems pretty survivable with all that stealth.

Thx for the help!

Just realized I forgot sigils in the first build – put in sigils of air and fire as part of the fun of this build
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAqaVlsMhunYnTw8Jw+EHIFEvBBYB+ccje0raGKBA-TRCFABvs/ALqBcjyPAeCACcKAMUlCN0HMgSwEVVhQAyWAA-e

One of my kids choose to make thief his main character. He plays very rarely, and it’s always very casual PVE content. He pretty much only plays with me or his brother, so he’s never taking on stuff by himself.

I know basically nothing about thief, but my goal is to come up with a build that’s survivable. Right now, the few times that he plays, he ends up dying fairly often. He prefers to use ranged weapons (he dies faster when he gets into the middle of things).

So I came up with this build as a “stay alive and easy to play” pve thief.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAqaVlsMhunYnTw8Jw+EHIFEvBBYB+ccje0raGKBA-TxxFABss/wgqUch+gUUDgGlfGqqCAKBJEgsFA-e

The idea would be that he would use Steal whenever it was available, then back out to range and use whatever weapon he felt like.

Is there a better build for just staying alive and yet having a little fun?

Thx for any help!

I stopped playing mesmer a while ago and went to trapper ranger. In WvW, the trapper could handle fights that I could never manage to pull off with my mesmer. When the June 23 patch came out, I tried a necromancer with conditions and minions. It had potential, but also plenty of limits. I came back to my mesmer (with a totally new build) about a week ago, and I’m really loving it.

Here’s a few things that make it a joy:
- Not stuck having to take traits just to make skills useful. The baseline is really nice and the trait choices feel fun and impactful
- Confusion feels like a meaningful condition again. It’s useful for both human and NPC opponents.
- The joy of in-combat mobility
- Quick-casting skills (necro cast times are so long…)
- Travelers runes no longer basically a must have for WvW roaming (and more options for open-map mobility coming with Chronomancer)
- Feels like there are a lot of options for viable builds
- A skill cap that means I can keep trying to get better for a long time

So basically, I just wanted to say thanks to everyone here that kept advocating for good changes in this profession and thanks to Robert Gee and the rest of the devs for all the work that’s been put into Mesmer. I look forward to enjoying this profession for many months to come

Thx for the feedback. When I played a phantasm roamer, I used travelers runes.

But it’s so nice to have other rune choices

I thought the signet of inspiration was interesting because it also synergizes with the chaos trait that gives longer condi and boon duration for each boon you have.

Is anyone trying condi builds as roamers in WvW? I have only fought a couple mesmers since the update, but they seem mostly power/interrupt focused.

Hi folks – longtime no posting in this forum for me – I’ve been experimenting with other professions for a few months.

I was wondering if anyone has tried out something like this for roaming in WvW.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAW7flsnhG1YZawANwtGLvGk5KG+IOLSQSOaAy5RA-T1RHABVs/QAXEA30Nwo6P3pEEgnAwRK/CAgA4oH9oH9oHtZOzjOzjOzCBsYNA-w

The signet seems like I should have swiftness at least 50% of the time, so swapping in focus every now and then should probably give me enough mobility.

Would love any feedback – thx!

Thx. I have lots to improve on in just learning to play necro.

But I was feeling kind of bad about how easily he crushed me.

I’ll try the trick about using minions as body shields if I get stuck in another open field fight.

Thx!

I’d love suggestions on how to best fight a longbow ranger – especially on open terrain.

I’ve found some of the builds really hard to engage between pets using taunt, the knockback shot and stealth.

Thx for any advice.

This is the roaming build I’ve been experimenting with
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNBmWDbkhGaqxuawvGYvxRwQJPhUoEmRdFkDxkOAiAA-TVyCABA8AAO+IAAouhHOIALv/gnq/koSwsU+RxFAIAACwMnZysMDO6RP6RP6Rbmz8oz8ozsQALWDA-w

I have to agree with the point that just because the word “trap” is used in the name really shouldn’t mean anything.

I would bet I’m one out of maybe 100,000 players who actually has used real world traps to catch real world animals (like mink, fox, wolf, beaver, etc). There’s really no interesting direct translation of real-world traps into a game like this.

If traps were causing an issue in terms of balance and this is the best option to achieve balance, then it is what it is. But don’t say it’s because of the name.

Here’s a short video of the roaming build I’ve been trying (along with some music from my youth).
https://youtu.be/-jC3IfKyrEM

This is the build:
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-30;3sHkD0s3oI-K0;9;4789;0158036248;41SW8U;1bUytbUytq-kev4rJ;3vcv7wcw7xcx7DFWF72o;572Ew72Emk2Ewk2Ew7YBm;9;9;9;6V6s5-F5J

Notes:
- My skills are pretty average. The fights in the video are really short and not meant to demonstrate good play. I got crushed twice trying to beat a long bow ranger on an open field.
- For me, this build is really fun. Nearly 100% swiftness. Lots of armor and health. Lots of condition removal. The ability to put out a good amount of total damage. And many, many things I can learn to do better.
- Besides the downsides listed in the video, there’s basically no escaping with this build (I’m coming from mesmer and trapper ranger with lots of access to stealth).

I’m happy to get any suggestions on improvements to the build or gameplay (but I’m old so you just have to live with my music choices… lol)

Have fun!

I’m recording video to try to learn how things work after the patch.

At the 16 second point in this video, I get a crit with Doom and you can clearly see the 2 burns, 10 vulnerability and 1 poison stack transfer because of the Plague Sending trait.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0d_HTrAMhA

There’s no entry in the log at that point to show plague signet was used. The other interesting thing is that no burning damage shows in my logs as the burns tick for the next four seconds. It seems maybe you don’t get credit for condis that you transfer? (I’m asking because I’m using Parasitic Contagion).

There’s another odd entry at the 9 second point where it says I’m doing poison and bleeding damage to my ally (Grav Dumela). I’m guessing what happened here is that the opponent necro transfered some of the conditions I put on him over to Grav.

Anyone see other oddities in the logs around condi transfers?

Build is below in case you’re interested:
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-30;3o2lD0s3oI-K0;9;4897;0036248147;4awWFM;1bUytbUytq-kC4-eiM3;1vcv7wcw7xcx7D10JF2m;9;9;9;9;9;9;0V6s5T

This is what I’m planning to try in WvW when I get home tonight.

It’s a condition-focused minion build. I’m not sure about the vampirism signet. I may go with the blood fiend.

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-30;3o2lD0s3oI-K0;9;4897;0036248147;4awWFM;1bUytbUytq-kC4-eiM3;1vcv7wcw7xcx7D10JF2m;9;9;9;9;9;9;0V6s5T

I’m really curious how well this works in real-world fights both in terms of getting condis off you and getting them back on the opponent.

Didn’t mean to make this a question – sorry about that

I leveled up a necro to 80 based on the first preview and reaper overview.

I’ve been building gear, learning the new skills, recording video of my gameplay to try to see what I’m doing wrong, etc.

I know there are lots of folks who aren’t happy about the changes, and I’m definitely wondering what heal I’m going to really end up using. But I also recognize that a ton of work has gone into these changes, and that they are really trying to make the profession more fun and make the traits more powerful.

I’m eager to try everything out, and I’m hopeful that ArenaNet can monitor and make adjustments quickly. With the amount of change in this patch, it’s basically guaranteed that some things will break and some things will be overpowered. Hopefully, there will be very regular updates over the coming weeks.

Anyway, since there are so many negative posts, I just wanted to say that I’m thankful to have something to look forward to, and I hope that things work out for all the professions to be happy with the update.

I’m pretty new to necro, but I think I could be very happy with Signet of Vampirism with 3 pretty small tweaks:
- allow minions to use the stacks (it appears to be only for players)
- extend the duration from 6 seconds to 7 seconds (I basically can never seem to get more than 3 of the stacks)
- decrease the base cooldown to 30 seconds

In return for these things, it would be fine with me to reduce the damage per stack and/or reduce the total number of stacks.

That’s for the WvW roaming minion build I’m try to make.

I’d also love it if blood fiend was more viable, but it just gets crushed in AoE conditions. Maybe it could have a base behavior of passing one stack of conditions on attack every 10 seconds (and the necromatic corruption trait could make that two stacks)

You’re probably already recording, but here are a couple.

- Would be interesting to hear what builds you’re planning on trying first when this update is released.
- Your opinion on whether power, condi or hybrid will be most dominant in each game mode in the short term and why.
- Your guess of whether 1v1 pvp fights are generally going to be shorter (because every profession is stronger) or longer (because everyone got more defense as well).

Looking forward to watching. Please post a link in these forums

Good point. I hadn’t looked at owl – that’s a perfect fit.

Hopefully it can stay alive